June 11, 2019 Show with Pete & Kelli Orta on “Apologetics in Your Home”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown,

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Welcome good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 11th day of June 2019 and

I am so thrilled to have back on the program Pete and Kelly Orta.

Many of you who Used to or perhaps still do love the genre of

Christian rock well, you may recognize the name Pete Orta because he was the lead guitarist of

The renowned Christian rock group and gospel Hall of Fame inductees Petra

from 1996 to 2000.

And His wife Kelly Orta who has been on this program with Pete once before will be joining us

again.

They're going to be continuing a Discussion we began a while back.

This will be part two of Apologetics in your own home and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you

both back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Pete and Kelly Orta.

It's great to have you guys back and I think For just the

sake of those people who might be in a tiny minority Pete who Have

never heard of Petra they perhaps never listened to Christian rock.

They have no idea of the significance of that band in the music genre.

Especially within the Christian music genre, but tell us something about Petra.

Well that.

That crowd is growing more and more the older.

I.

Believe you get a young fan.

They're like used to play with Petra.

That was my grandparents favorite band

Man Petra.

Petra started in 1972.

I was born in 1971.

So, you know, it was build my body of

work upon that foundation that was set before

and one of the or the first Christian rock band The

Bible and very much so that they they stuck pretty

That in my time it It didn't exist.

There were very few success that just wanted to give Young people

a lot.

They were missing out on the modern days of how to communicate.

It's funny that There's still people in our in our network still that you

know Just think the organ is the only holy instrument God has ever created and a choir and

An electric guitar is not I can't help them there but it's it's it's just the

way that music has grown the way that it's evolved in the way that It's

communicating To the world today and it's it would be like

someone being offended that you know We've adopted the new iPhones that have come out and weren't it

still not on t9

music genre is a Form of communicating and I like that Petra did

that but at the same time.

Didn't make them.

Yeah, one of the things that I remember as a young Christian

Going to a Petra concert.

I Was glad that the group Unlike some other so -called Christian

bands were not running around in effeminate looking clothing and spandex bodysuits

and things like that there was that they did typically, you

know have perhaps longer hair than than a lot of perhaps more more

senior citizen Saints would approve of but they they didn't look like they were.

Oh, what's the word I'm looking for unisex.

Trend trend transgender.

They look they look like men, you know, I mean and but I believe when I saw the group that was

before you were you were actually a part of the group because Yes, I was a

single Christian man and you joined the the group in 1996.

I was already married a year I'm sorry.

I was already married five years by that time.

So I Saw Petra before you were part of the group.

I have a funny story connected with that.

I'm not gonna say anybody's name But I had been dating off and on a girl

Christian girl, and I had bought tickets for us to see Petra and I

Bought the months in advance and she called me up like a week before the concert and She

said, you know Chris, I just want to let you know it's about something I Started seeing somebody and it's

developed into a very serious relationship and in fact, we may be heading for

marriage and So I just wanted to let you know about that.

But my my question is to you.

Can I still go to Petra with you?

And.

This was this was with the approval of her boyfriend, I don't think he was a hundred percent comfortable with it, but

anyway I just I just had to bring that up.

Back in the day the

drummer for striper and you know prettier than any girlfriend.

I've had today.

One of the things that you and I agree upon even though we might have Some differences about what music should

be in a worship service.

There may be some differences, but we agree upon maybe not.

Yeah, well, I know that we agree upon the fact that worship music primarily should be

Congregationally sung and participated in whereas much

of of music in the church today Even outside

of the realm of what would be called Christian rock.

It could be any kind of music it could be even just a praise and worship kind of

music that that even older folks might appreciate but the

Very often it is a show that's being put on in the church.

It's not really a worship service.

It's a performance.

It's an entertainment portion of the the service where people Just watch and

listen and sway back and forth with their hands raised and they don't you know, really get involved in much else other

than perhaps Singing along a very famous or well -known chorus of a song

but but would you Agree with me that you are on the same page.

Is that that we need to be more focused on corporate worship?

Congregational worship than having a band entertain us.

Well, I will agree because I Think that it needs to be singable

for and I think that it should

be Message within that song instead of man -centered and those are

tough to find.

So, you know I don't believe that the guitar should be screaming.

I think you can mix it and kind of had it be like a little bed track, you know.

It's something that you know.

You don't want an instrument drawing attention like a lady with a big hat in it sitting in front of you in church.

You you you want it?

Do you want it to just blend in and be nice?

I said but let me defend cuz I I am a musician and I'll and I'll give one for the.

The musical team rarely gets to pipe in on

this no pun intended a preacher.

Can beg.

I've heard a lot of

about even Sproul.

Not putting somebody to sleep

Foreman side and putting a sermon together and making sure you've got

a good intro and they put in the

Tools that they need for their craft, but yet when they get there, it's all about Christ.

The flock is getting fed.

You can do that on your podcast.

I do it on my podcast.

We use the best mics we can we listen when areas of pockets where we listen we pull back.

I mean, there's a skill.

That's why Guys have to go to seminary and practice in front of elders and in their and their preaching

style and develop their own voice.

But when a singer does it it's performing in an unbiblical manner.

That's the only where place where I would just Get people to open up the perspective

that it does happen.

They do get a bad rap if they bring their

performance now say that if you are Got some killer

pipes and you are singing and you are leading and you've got.

You know not to tastefully.

If you're going to do a lick don't do it all of the time.

Make sure that your lead lines as a guitar player is Tasteful.

It's on the music.

It doesn't distract.

That's good music and I think there's a lot of performing out there.

I can name a lot of bands that are not doing it, right?

I think most people want to show up when they even when they don't have a good biblical pastor.

They'll say but I love our worship.

I believe too much is put around that I believe it's creating emotional moments that all

of that is should give

the man or the showing up do extremely.

Amen and it was kind of I happened to chuckle to myself when you said Use the phrase some

guys get a bad rap.

Well, there are many Christians who think all rap is bad.

But anyway, I Happen to actually

believe it or not.

I do enjoy well -done Christian rap.

I I have fundamentalist friends who think it's all straight from hell, but I don't know how you could

Yeah, really make the case for that.

But when when if you boil it down to its essence, it's just rhyming.

It's poetry and What makes it good or bad are the lyrical content and also

the persona or the imagery?

Provided when this is being performed like for instance, I've told people many times

that if God Bothered to include among the things

that he most hates a haughty look well many many rap artists hip -hop

artists are a haughty look on steroids and The whole persona

is arrogance pride.

And when I hate it when I see on occasion Christian hip -hop artists rappers

Imitate that look with the very thick gold chains and the the whole

arrogant attitude and posturing even if you're singing things that you think

are In adoration to God you shouldn't be you shouldn't be acting that way.

But but even though I do like very much some well -done Christian rap.

There are some reformed Theologically reformed Christian rappers out there I do not believe it has a place in a

worship service for the same reasons.

I gave earlier.

I Believe that a worship service is supposed to be a congregational event and But

that's what my conviction is and I just want people to know that I am just not a star.

I'm not just a stick in the mud and I don't have pharisaic Ideas or

prohibitions against things that the Bible doesn't prohibit prohibit.

I even enjoy a lot of secular music as long as it is not dishonoring to God doesn't have lyrics that are

Filthy or blasphemous or so on?

And so there there's my two cents for that.

Maybe I put more than two cents in but.

No, I think I think we see eye to eye, you know.

Yeah,

I agree some of the

I think

some pretty hard tough background.

Just normal pop music is a rap a storytelling about where people have come from.

So it could have a look of this and that but I

think it's just in context.

I think it's more of like are you expressing?

I know when I'm preaching.

My wife is white.

I'm Spanish.

I know when I'm preaching.

Her culture of people look at it.

It's like if he angry my culture is like I think there's just a lot

of disconnect to.

In in the reform circle how other ethnic

ever heard that talked about but I'm not getting into social justice or anything like that.

But we are we are black Americans are different than

Hispanics where I come from.

And so I think they're man.

I think if you're just the lyrics are biblical you keep your heart in check and you're doing it to the glory of God.

I think it can.

Yes, and I love Well done black gospel music.

I.

Love the enthusiasm and joy that's often poured into it.

I know and How you

know my people of the way and of course, we'll probably get Emails and

phone calls that this what you're saying in and of itself is racist.

You know that everybody will find a reason to complain about something and

Obviously I'm assuming when you when you say things like they are a passion of people and so on you're

not yes.

You know, you're basically saying that Culturally, that is very often the case.

But but there are there are black folks who are just as nerdy and dull as white folks.

Just culturally if you jump into a white church, you jump into a Spanish Church, you know.

Man the black churches are very animated very

we look more angry.

I mean when you go to I remember you're

gonna find people that look like they're about to get into a fight on the side Of the street.

They're not.

They're using their hands and they talk aggressively.

It's just it's any different people in the spectrum of humanity, and I think that we should

allow.

Liberties and not.

And then

by the way, I want to give our listeners our email address in case they want to Join us on the

air with a question of your own.

It is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter

as Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and Let's see.

We.

Already have.

This is not the theme by the way, we are going to be discussing apologetics in the home.

But I think judging from your or knowing of I should say your your background.

This is an appropriate question.

We have John and banger Maine who says.

It grieves me that there are churches who very quickly will split and

Have infighting and even wars amongst themselves over music that is

performed in a church service and I understand that sometimes a Parting of ways is

necessary but I don't think it always has to be.

One of the most troubling aspects about this is That nobody in our day and age seems to

really care much at all about what the senior Saints think about The music that is being

played.

They don't care if the senior Saints are being alienated and I was wondering what your guest

What your guests opinion on this is?

Man I Can see both sides.

I really can I think that we fall into error when we and I

think that's when we start getting You know split.

I think that I think that we don't need to be, you know, so top 40

I believe that you know to have a single congregation can

formatted like a top in key.

It's lower than a top 40 song.

It doesn't have the you know, the same production.

So I think that you know, if it's getting just too crazy You know, then it's going it's

probably bleeding over to just you know.

The volume has to you know, the older folk maybe the volume of things.

But I think that you know most and I think that

you should have a mixture her and then you know

I think that it but most of the time I believe I could speak on it not knowing every church

split out there that's happened but it's it's it's wanting to wanting to keep

The good

old days how we

communicate versus making the not making the Bible relevant and not making music

You know not changing the lyric time, you know,

we all work on laptops where I'm using a cell phone right now we're all using social

media to Get the gospel out and and move that forward and be a part of the Great Commission in

different ways but yet people make their preferences of how they grew up and how they've always seen it

a Doctrine, I think we should be flexible and not allow those

little things to.

Remove us from our amen.

I agree.

And of course, I think that I Think that

all people young and old Have a certain realm of

music that they both can appreciate.

I don't think that young people need to impose very loud deafening

Music upon the senior Saints because there is no doubt something within their genre

of music that they enjoy That would appeal or at least

at the very least be more tolerable to the much older Saints in the congregation and

Even even some of the most raucous hard rock groups have ballads and things

that That young people enjoy hearing and singing along with and so on so I mean

That's proof that they can they can tolerate and even enjoy more tranquil music.

And I think there's actually something wrong With with anybody that that doesn't have

some kind of joy singing you know the the the

classic hymns that are perhaps sung traditionally to Classical music and

so on.

Why that would get you in such an uproar?

Just because you can't bang your head to it.

I don't I don't know.

I mean it'd be I think it was Michael Horton who you know said that the

The the great hymns that are lasting hymns throughout the centuries have been written

by Men and women who were saturated in the scriptures who

really knew the scriptures very often they were pastors who wrote these hymns very often they were theologians and

Unfortunately in our modern day as you even attested to you have some Christian

groups Having their lyrics driven by marketing executives that might not even

be saved.

And just to let our listeners know if you want to hear a fascinating interview that I conducted with Pete Orta a Number

of months ago.

Just go to the archive of iron trip and Zion radio where it says past shows podcast.

If you type in Orta or ta you will hear his previous interview and

the previous interview we conducted with both he and his wife and but Pete was not a

Born -again believer when he was performing not only with Petra, but even when he went into a Quote quote Christian solo

career with a first Album the debut album being titled born -again Pete admits now that he was

not born again when that was recorded or in all of his his

professional music career with Petra or as a solo Christian artist.

So just thought I'd let you know that that that would be a fascinating interview for all of you to listen to.

Um, yeah, I do agree.

I do agree with what you said about you know.

You can find a happy medium because it takes talent to actually strike the multitudes for

instance, you know.

You've got certain, you know Independent films that you might go see or something.

That's just a drama or something that's heavy in action or a superhero movie or things like this.

And then you get the blockbusters, you know.

You get the movies that are that are just the timeless ones that hit it takes talent to do that.

And I think it takes some talent to go.

You know, what we're gonna music is like that I mean the classics but when

I think you can bring that style in that will hit everybody everybody can go.

That's good music.

I think you can agree on that.

There is that genre of music that's popular.

The majority of the gifting in it.

Hey, man, well, we're gonna go to our first break right now and when we return we'll jump right into part two of

our Topic that we began a number of months ago on Apologetics in your

own home and if you have a question on that issue, our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

chris arnzen a gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a

personal and private matter that's chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And What do you know the?

My computer shut down while we were talking so I've got I love live radio got a

reboot this computer.

While I'm rebooting this computer, I would like you Kelly since we've been

hearing a lot from Pete right now.

I want to hear from you when in your

your life as a Christian Did apologetics specifically become something of great

interest and passion to you?

And I and I know that some people might think that I'm a misogynist by saying this.

But I am saying this because I've heard some Christian women Say this.

Some Christian women that I have met and that I know have said things like that's man stuff.

Yeah, I love the Word of God.

I love to worship God.

But this deep delving into the Word of God on deep

Mysterious theological matters that's more for for men.

But but thankfully even though that is a group of women that certainly do exist.

There are more and more ladies who are Loving apologetics and

they are doing so without overstepping any kind of biblical bounds without leaping out of a

complimentary complementary and understanding of of Christian theology and apologetics and church

order and so on.

So if you could why don't you let us know how this became a passion of yours.

Well, I Started

when we started taking in the young men and and I wouldn't even necessarily say it was like an extreme passion for me at

that point it was more about again me wanting to sure that

I Understood what I believed and why I believed it because growing up in a charismatic church.

That was just never it was never mentioned.

It was never taught.

I just believed whatever was being taught from the pulpit without really Questioning and asking for myself

and so I would say it was at that point and just really just started studying and learning and I'm

I'm you know, I'm I'm not one of those that would say that it should just should be the men.

I do believe that we all need to understand our faith and and be able to

defend it and especially Women to be able to do that along with their husbands for their children.

I'm not much of a debater I don't it's just not my personality type to get in debates and and stuff like

that.

I do shy away from that, but I do think apologetics is extreme

because somebody can know You know All kinds of information, but if they

if we don't know how to at least be able to explain it, you know to someone.

Then it I mean it puts us in a it puts us in a bad position.

You know to walk away feeling like we didn't do enough or that we kind of messed it up when

when we had an opportunity to possibly Steer somebody to Christ and give them a better

understanding.

If that answers your question, yes.

And of course, there is a biblical command that older teach the older women teach the younger.

How is how is an older woman going to appropriately teach a younger woman without

having any idea of what the meaning of Scripture is.

It doesn't mean that right doesn't mean that every woman or man it needs to learn the original languages of Scripture or anything

like that, but.

But we'll get it more into this discussion on apologetics in the home after we come back from

our first Station break.

And once again, if you want to join us on the air of the question.

Our email address is Chris arms in at gmail .com.

Chris arms in a gmail .com and as always give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live

Outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away we'll be right back with Pete and Kelly Orta after these messages from our sponsors as

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Have a great day.

Hey, this is Pete Orta former guitar player for the Grammy Award -winning Christian rock band Petra.

I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called Christian conversations unfiltered.

This channel is much different than my sermon podcast.

The episodes are intimate conversations with people who I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit.

Each episode is unproduced unedited and unapologetic.

Conversations that might not only help you answer some relevant questions You might be struggling with but also help create some

questions in your head that you might not have even ever thought of.

The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

So go to Pete Orta comm That's P E T E O R T A comm and click

subscribe to Podcasts and then choose what podcast you'd like to hear if not both and what platform

works best for you.

Can't wait for you to join us.

God bless.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in the man behind the voice that you just heard in that ad

and his wife Pete and Kelly Orta are our guests today and they are discussing

part two of a Theme that we began a number of months ago apologetics in your own

home.

And if you'd like to join us with a question, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and please as always give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live

outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and If you could

before we go into any audience questions or even further into our discussion on apologetics in your own home.

Pete why don't you tell our listeners about more about the podcast that we just advertised?

Well, I've got a I've got a couple of podcasts.

I've got Sermon podcast that most pastors have and I release that

every every Sunday and also.

Man, I just um, I've had I've had some the privilege of having some amazing conversations.

I have been blessed with.

I'm very inquisitive.

He said that if I Sat down with Michael Jordan at a dinner.

I would pull more from him than the average person just

because I just like question what makes people tick and

I've had such amazing conversations throughout just

curious with people and I'm very Aware and want to know the

dynamics of how somebody, you know.

Got to this that I just decided to start recording these because they benefited

me so much.

They've stretched my worldview they have challenged my Christianity.

Iron sharpens iron and I don't know how much of that is happening on a day -to -day with

most people so show that there is.

There's active out there sometimes.

So in other words.

You are also interviewing people that are not believers just to pick their brain and Perhaps be

used as a vessel by the Lord to lead them to Christ.

Man I have interviewed non -believers.

Neuroscientists.

Who's not claiming Christianity.

I have.

I've interviewed people from all different denominations as well

from charismatic to.

Baptist.

Reformed and I mean you name it.

I will have a conversation With anyone if there's something to say,

yeah, I did.

Way my friend Jeff Durbin.

I don't know if you're familiar with Jeff pastor of apology a church alongside James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

Jeff Durbin has a program where he has not only interviewed Christians, but he's also interviewed people like Ben

Stein and.

Others.

Who are?

Not in the Christian faith, but have something of importance to say so I

Always appreciate hearing things like that when they are done appropriately.

So, how can our listeners Find this podcast or actually all of your podcasts.

My website.

PEPORTA .com and You know that'll if anybody's local it'll lead you to our

church.

It'll lead you to the different podcasts and.

Some other things here and there by the way, I misspoke.

I know that although I'm sure that.

Jeff.

Durbin would love to interview Ben Stein.

What I meant to say is Ben Shapiro.

But Ben Stein is actually a pretty fascinating guy.

He actually directed and produced that documentary called Expelled.

I don't know if you ever saw that but talking about basic.

I have not.

Oh, that's a it's a fascinating documentary on the Horrors that are

going on under the name of education in the modern education system.

Came out, I don't know maybe a decade ago, but Ben Ben Stein Is not

a Christian, but he seems to have a lot of affinity with at least the moral and social ideas

of Or principles I should say of Christians and in fact RC Sproul.

RC Sproul interviewed him years ago.

And he at one time was a speechwriter for President Nixon.

I.

You would recognize him probably most Quickly from his hilarious TV

commercials that perhaps aren't on so much anymore, but he did the the ad for the clear

eyes very droning boring voice.

But a lot of people who watch those commercials probably have no idea that they're listening to a brilliant conservative

thinker but let me go now to we have a listener

in a Cork Ireland.

Mary in Cork Ireland says hi Chris Pete and Kelly.

I studied a module on apologetics in Munster Bible College under dr.

Ted Cable and we looked at Coco's approach.

That's Greg Coco.

We look at Coco's approach to his book tactics.

A game plan for discussing your Christian convictions.

Coco says something to this effect.

Apparently when witnessing some Christians feel they have to close the sale as soon as

they can.

Due to possible time pressure when sharing the gospel if the person does not respond.

Well, at least you have done your part and then just move on.

Coco argues that most of the time the non -believer is not ready and needs something to

make him think or more or less.

Make him uncomfortable.

Leading to asking himself questions about what he really believes and what is the truth?

He refers to this as putting a stone or pebble in one's shoe.

I know there are God ordained moments when the fruit is ripe and ready to be picked.

But generally it takes a few times to hear the truth of the gospel.

What are your thoughts?

We don't know and there's nothing that we can do.

Spoken kind of in a I mean, we

don't know if it's going to be the actual gospel presentation.

That is is going to bring a conversion.

I mean, we don't know that like

that.

I think that I think that it just depends on how the Holy Spirit is is

set up the encounter.

I know that when I'm out there witnessing if I'm out there doing street witnessing I'm

probably never going to see that person again, and I'm going to Be a lot

sharper and a lot more pointed and I am going to ask very very tough questions.

I deal with people that are non -believers all the time on the other side where I'm seeing them week after week.

You know, I do have some time somewhat.

I know somebody can say well, you don't know that, you know, they could die tomorrow.

That's that's true for anybody.

For the most part if I'm in relationship with

you in a drink out of a fire hydrant.

Kelly any thoughts on your part when you're having a conversations with especially the lost

how you might approach something like this.

And I think that Pete has already said or made an excellent point that that

the situation and circumstance and the person May dictate your approach.

Obviously the the Bible the Bible or the biblical truth is always the same.

But the manner in which you share that might be different.

As Pete said you might be in a bus with somebody and you might never see them again.

But anyway, if you want to add anything to that.

Yeah, I mean I Completely.

I mean I completely agree with him.

I think that if we do have to look at the situation how

we've met them.

And and and for me personally I I am NOT around as many non -believers as Pete is

because of being in the home more and.

Pretty much.

I'm at home in church kind of thing.

And and if I'm out, it's usually with friends that are in the church and their children are in the church.

And so but I do have I mean I do have friendships that I've had for years just even from high school.

And even with them, it's been a thing where it's just a it's a slow deal where I don't hesitate to talk

about the Lord with them and I I talk about what he's done in my life and how things are

going.

I I'm not real pushy about it because I want to I want to be considerate but yet I want them to I want to be

Here, you know how I am a different person than who I was and I want them to see it as well.

And so but I'm very I am cautious because I I want to keep making

sure that they That I'm not turning them off if that makes sense.

Yes again I know that I know that the Holy Spirit is the one who's in complete control of that that I can't do anything

to mess it up, but I still feel like you know, I want to use wisdom when I am with my friends

and and You know getting their perspective on things and because when my earlier days when I was

younger with my personality type I could be kind of brash and and still can be and so I'm really aware

of That about my personality and I want to I want to I want to do

I want to do the right thing I guess and just Honor the Lord and and how I'm and talking about

him and and what he's done in my life.

And don't I don't want to make things a debate and and the kind of people that I'm around and that I'm friends with.

They're not that way anyway, so I haven't had a ton of experience as

an adult.

Being put in that situation I actually did when I was in high school, and I didn't handle it probably very well I had

there was a lot of liberals in the high school that I went to I went to a magnet school and super smart kids and

just lots of different just very much diverse and.

But I know that I I didn't handle some things right.

But it's funny how even knowing that a specific person that I can think of she still

Comments and on on Facebook stuff just with such kindness towards me, so I guess I did

something right because she is very much a liberal and She hasn't

you know she hasn't dropped me as a friend if that makes sense or defriended me.

She just keeps you know kind of chiming in on Pete stuff and my stuff, and that's been encouraging But

but anyway I say all that to say I completely agree with him that that we do have to be wise

Under the circumstance of whatever you know the The timing is with that

specific person.

Now I don't know if I told you to this story the last time you were on.

Well, I know that I've told this story a couple of times at least on this show so those of you who have heard this Story, please forgive me.

I don't want any eye rolling here.

We go again with the story.

I.

Had a friend who is now in eternity with Christ named Bill Holfacker and he was a deacon

at the church where I was saved and Bill had an interesting way about him

and one day my late wife Julie asked

me if I could get some assistance from men in the church to help a friend of hers

move out of her apartment and move the furniture and so on and There were probably five or

six guys and Bill Holfacker was one of them and When they entered

into this woman's apartment Bill's very first words from this complete and total

stranger were Hi, my name is Bill.

You know where you would spend eternity if you died tonight, and this woman Freaked out she

pulled me aside and said did you bring a serial killer into my house what on earth?

All right, this guy's creeping me out and she was terrified well years later, I'm in a restaurant

with my wife and I hear a familiar voice behind me and I turn

around and it's this woman who is having dinner with her new husband a

Christian husband and I said to her Wow, I haven't seen you in years, you know.

Tell me about your life, you know, and she said well, I'm a Christian now and my husband Is a Christian and I said you

really will praise God.

How did that happen?

And she said remember that guy that you had come help furniture.

That question that he asked me haunted me for a couple of years.

I couldn't sleep at night thinking about that and the Lord even used That to lead her to

Christ now.

I'm not just because that the Lord used that to save this woman.

I don't necessarily recommend.

That's the first words to come out of your mouth when you're meeting somebody.

Especially when you know, you know, you're gonna have a few hours perhaps to talk and get to know her.

But but even though that might have been tacked tactically Inappropriate

at least bill had the courage of his convictions to tell the truth

rather than let Introvertedness because I have a feeling just because of the way he spoke

and his posturing that that this was a lot for bill to Do I think because he was I believe is introverted.

So I think it was a commendable that unlike many people who would never say a single word

At the risk of offending someone or having them think that you're weird.

He at least cared more about the person's eternal Soul yes and about God and his

word than he did about his own personal feelings or their feelings.

Well, I was gonna say real quick about that is I you know I do believe that there are times and that when the Lord just

Man just puts a fire in you to say something and I mean I've seen that happen with Pete before where he's Been in

front of somebody and it's just you know It was different than sometimes the way he does it at other times.

So, you know, I'm definitely not against it.

I mean, obviously look what it did look how the Lord used it.

I mean, I obviously, I don't think it's common, but I think that there's definitely probably

times where he just put something in us just to say something because it's just it's the time For it, even

though it may not feel like it to everybody else.

Anyway, that's my thought.

Well, we have to go to our Midway station break right now.

It's our longer than normal station break because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break

in the middle of our show.

Because they air their own public service announcements and commercials while we air our own commercials that are heard

globally.

They have to localize on a trip in Zion to Lake City, Florida as an FCC requirement.

So that's why they require this break.

They need to do their own thing as it were During this break.

So please use this time wisely.

Not only write down questions for Pete and Kelly or to to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris

Arnzen a gmail .com but also, please write down the information provided by our advertisers

because we depend upon our advertisers to exist and The more you

patronize our advertisers the more you contact them and make use of whatever services or products they offer.

The more likely they're gonna remain our advertisers, which means the more likely we are going to remain on the air.

So please write down all of the information that you can during the station break that our Advertisers provide and even if

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You might want to store that somewhere in a file where you may use it in the future.

Like for instance some of the churches that you're hearing Advertise you might not live anywhere near

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Have a friend that a friendship develop.

That.

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So you never know when you you can patronize one of our advertisers one or more.

So, please keep that in mind and We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Pete and Kelly

Orta on apologetics in your own home.

At Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please as always Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world

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Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan, but if you go Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer.

But not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the Bible.

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Hey, this is Pete Orta former guitar player for the Grammy Award -winning Christian rock band Petra.

I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called Christian conversations unfiltered.

This channel is much different than my sermon podcast.

The episodes are intimate conversations with people who I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit.

Each episode is unproduced unedited and unapologetic.

Conversations that might not only help you answer some relevant questions You might be struggling with but also help create some

questions in your head that you might not have even ever thought of.

The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

So go to Pete Orta comm That's P E T E O R T A Comm and click

subscribe to Podcasts and then choose what podcast you'd like to hear if not both and what platform

works best for you.

Can't wait for you to join us. God bless.

As host of iron sharpens iron radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

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Hi, I'm buzz Taylor frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

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We have just a couple of events that we want you to be aware of before we return to our interview.

In December, I am heading back to my old stomping grounds in Manhattan for the

foundations conference.

This is a phenomenal conference that I urge every one of you to attend if at all possible.

This is Going to be held Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th in

Manhattan and the speakers the are always Extraordinary and that

this time is no exception this December.

We have dr. Stephen J Lawson whose voice you've been hearing every day promoting New Covenant Church NYC

one of our sponsors he is Founder of one passion ministries and one of the most powerful preachers

on the planet Earth.

Paul Washer is also in that category of one of the most powerful preachers alive today.

Jeff Thomas is another man of God that I just recently interviewed again that is extraordinary

Reverend Armin Tomasi and a young man who I truly believe without Exaggeration or

flattery.

I believe he's going to be a household name over the next decade In reform circles because he is just that

powerful and that gifted at preaching far beyond his gifts are far beyond his youth.

Richard Colwell jr.

And Andrew Quigley.

I have not yet heard preached but sermon audio selected them.

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So if you want to join me in December 19th and 20th, that's a Thursday and Friday right during the

Christmas season, which is the best time of year to visit Manhattan.

Go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm.

And you'll have all the information that you need.

Then in January, I am going to be packing up my bags again and heading down to Atlanta, Georgia.

More specifically College Park, Georgia to the Georgia International Convention Center.

That is where the g3 conference is being held and I will be manning an exhibitors booth for iron sharpens iron

radio there.

G3 for your information stands for gospel grace and glory and the theme this

January 2020 is Worship matters something that we were even talking

about earlier in today's program with Pete Orta.

The roster of people speaking at this is Extraordinary as it always is.

The first speaker is Kosti Hinn.

He is believe it or not the nephew of the world -renowned notorious charlatan and

heretic Benny Hinn and Kosti is not offended by me saying that because he has made it a part

of his life's mission to expose people like his uncle and those in the word of faith movement for the

frauds and charlatans and heretics that they are and Also with hopes to lead them to Christ because I have a very

good friend John Sampson who was once a word -of -faith Preacher teacher and talk -show host

who is now a reformed Baptist and a cessationist on top of that.

And in fact Kosti Hinn is also a reformed Baptist and a cessationist and he's pastoring in, California.

And I strongly recommend that you hear him whenever you get a chance to hear him.

Speak.

David Miller is also on the roster a phenomenal preacher Derek Thomas a man

known to the vast majority of people in the English -speaking world of the reformed faith.

My friend, dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries since I've known that I've known since 1995.

Joel Beakey who I've known about as long another phenomenal brother Josh

Bice the founder of the g3 conference once again, Stephen Jay Lawson and Paul Washer.

They are on this roster as well.

My friend, dr. Tom Askell the president or the executive director.

I should say of Founders ministries the Calvinistic ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention and Vodie

Balcom who is an extraordinary man In our day and age one of the finest preachers

alive.

If you want to register go to g3 conference calm.

G3 conference calm.

I also strongly to I strongly urge you to register for an exhibitors booth if you have a business

or a parachurch ministry.

That you want to promote because every year they have over 5 ,000 people attend this conference.

This January the conference is Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th.

So mark that down on your calendar and I would Register as soon as possible.

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room.

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We are now back with our guest Pete and Kelly Orta and that is the same address email address where you would send them a question.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

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involves a personal and private matter.

Pete and Kelly I'd like you to begin.

And either one of you may start with some basic building blocks for

Apologetics in your own home how one goes about knowing what to start

In the realm of apologetics, and of course just like many other things in life.

It may differ greatly very widely from family to family because you may have

families that are far more biblically literate and astute and Accomplished

and you might start a different place than a person or family.

That has their role, you know, very new Christians perhaps.

So give us some ideas and either one of you may start.

Babe.

Pete are you there?

I Think Pete is gone.

I.

Will say this I'll start off by saying this that We don't live

in a day in a in the day and age that we can allow very much

time To go past before we talk about our kids.

Talking to them about sex, you know when I was a kid.

Before you would run into it in the world.

There was a certain age probably junior high things like this that you know, the world could get to you before your

parents did.

Now the world can touch your kids.

You're at a younger age than you could when you were young when when during my time there's

internet.

There's all kinds of things that I mean we all have that.

We all have become super protective Christian or not on what's coming into our home through these

devices.

So these conversations are having to start quicker.

I as I have four kids and I've had to I've had to talk to them about

sexual things and stuff like this at a younger age as time goes on

because It's just so accessible.

So in that I

think that a lot of times we think that maybe they should be a little older so they can Comprehend what we're talking

about and we just kind of give them milk, you know in a Sunday school class or you know children's

daycare type of maybe a Christian daycare or something like this and they're learning, you know David and

Goliath and Lauren learning Jonah in the well and at a

younger age and what I think is it's higher than

what we Might think so.

We try to reach our kids my kids as I

will play around with them and go ahead and prepare them.

The fight that is out there is to Question the origin of their

belief.

So it's practicing with my kids again.

We do jujitsu.

So we have this thing called a live role where you're learning class.

And so it it

helps you it helps you because you don't want I or be

punched real fight for the very first time.

This is when you're experiencing it.

It keeps you calm if you're used to doing this every feel any

different then I'm taking this philosophy with my kids on

Apologetics and I don't want the first time that they hear something.

That's going to rock their faith to come from a stranger and then not have anything to fall back on.

So I telling them good night one night and I I said, you know what

guys I Said you're just a Christian because we are.

Your parents are Christians because I mean you're a Christian because your parents are Christian

would have been raised in and it raised you.

In China, you would have been a Buddhist or India a Hindu.

We would have been atheist you would have been atheist you would have

you would have agreed just as strongly with whatever Belief that we brought to you if we were Mormon if we

were Muslim.

You would agree with it because one day and these are my kids.

They're very young that in one day you're gonna

grow up and realize you've got your own life.

Your own brain the own what your own way that you want to think and you're gonna realize that you were just following along.

What we did.

So you're not real that

I was playing this apologetic game that we

answer it and they're

like boring does what this

is how you Answer it brainwashed.

Where's your where's the origin of your thought?

Where do your ideas come from?

You didn't create your own ideas the only people that think they create their own ideas or

start rates his

own idea and indoctrinated by.

By a group think we've all been we've all gained our ideas from other people.

And if you're an atheist you have to become an atheist.

So I'm talking to them in this way and then say embrace it.

You were brainwashed burden say that you're indoctrinated then tell everyone that you're

indoctrinated art from there.

So nice little things and conversations that my

wife will here tell you how she builds of

them and the type of how she is proselytizing them and raising

them and And hit

their mind it's not the yeah.

Just I mean as far as you know We are him and I are extremely different in the way that we

approach things.

I typically kind of allow him to handle more of the the sparring and like you said the live rolling and

I a lot of times will

use whether it's again doing a Bible study or

whether it's reading about Reformers in history or whether it's using

there's a lot of times we do videos.

Right now media actually does have some good videos for.

That talk about evolution and oh my gosh.

I just went I just went blank.

I'll talk about we're watching some videos.

And we're going to be reading Pilgrims progress there it is it just it it left my brain so we're watching

a video kind of to prepare and give them a little bit of an Understanding about what Pilgrim's

progress is and then we're going to go through the book together.

So that's kind of more my approach whereas he Pete Is just more of an

intuitive and has the questions to ask and can get them to really think.

And so that's kind of how we hit it twofold between the two of us.

So yeah when you were speaking I don't know if I mentioned this the first time that you two were on together speaking on

the subject, but when you were speaking.

I.

Was.

Ushered back to a memory of the the classical

Christian school.

That was housed in the former church where I was a member on Long Island before moving to Pennsylvania

Grace Christian Academy.

Classical Christian schools.

Are.

Christian schools that include in the curriculum Things from the secular culture

that are believed are important for Christians to be aware of.

Christian young people should know something about the lies of Darwinian

evolution for instance so that they can biblically and successfully

and intelligibly Respond to things like that when they are confronted with them in the world.

And as you were saying Pete it would be wrong for Children to be let

loose in the world unprepared to be hearing things for the very first time that they've never heard and be left

dumbstruck.

All right, right.

Yes.

Because think about it.

Other other religions.

That we would.

I will.

I'll take the heat on this.

That we would.

Or.

Mormons or Jehovah's like this.

They're not allowed to question their religion to question their teachers and they are not allowed to

debate out in the world.

And.

So they get rocked and they get left like idiots and this type

of Thinking world this information world.

And they're behind which I don't mind but Christians seem to be falling

into that same group as well where we don't know Why we believe something.

Right now I want to make it clear that The Christian school to which I am referring did

not teach Darwinian evolution as an acceptable Alternative

way of thought they are just educating children on the the lies

that they will be confronted with in the secular culture and Paul the Apostle even

referred to Secular and even the the

the writings of the false religions within Greece and so on not because he was presenting

them as necessarily true or not, I mean there are some things that are universally true, but

Obviously, he was a student of the culture to which he was speaking and I think that

that is an important element of Christian apologetics.

Is that We don't Act as if we could care less or should I say

we couldn't care less about what other people's Believe and are passionate

about we should have.

We should if we love people we should grow to learn what they believe where they're coming from, etc.

Not not that that's Of the most primary importance.

The most primary importance.

I'm sure you agree is to know the Word of God.

But I think it is important to know what others Believe as much as possible

as long as it doesn't eclipse your study of the scripture and I write on that.

Yes, and I respect and I respect to

be Muhammad Ali if it wasn't for George.

You've got to respect your opponent and I'll tell you this.

I think the growing number of 80 we have

a.

Listener in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Grady.

It says great show brother.

Chris brother Pete and sister Kelly first I want to thank you for your openness on the

last show.

That's greatly appreciated.

So we know how to pray for you.

My question is in this day with so many single moms How do we get them

interested in apologetics so that they can have these conversations with their children?

And I assume he's emphasizing single moms because there's no man there to lead the house spiritually.

You think he meant this primarily for Kelly and while Kelly's thinking I'm gonna

give our email address is Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

And please as always give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Any thoughts Kelly on Specifically reaching single moms with the the need

or the benefit of Christian apologetics.

You know, I grew up interview.

I grew up in a in a single -parent home and You know for my mom

growing up in a charismatic church and not really Yeah, not really

Understanding a lot and her not really understanding a lot.

And of course she went through a lot when my dad left and she was having to work all the time.

And so, you know, I think The first key is that they are in a sound

biblical church.

Because there's so much that that can be gained from that obviously not only the fellowship with fellow believers.

But what's coming off of the pulpit and the kids being able to hear that and if a if a pastor is really

doing What he's called to do there is apologetics threaded out through all of his

sermons in some way and Children are hearing that every week every week and then of course if

if if the children's ministers or the youth pastor or You know, whoever is in charge of them is

also being In influence in that way.

I think in a situation with a single parent It really does it is about a village it taking a

village to raise, you know kids because that's needed especially if the mom's working and

as far as like getting her to.

Be.

In a position to where she's desiring to learn that to me again I think it's really so much of that

is about the church and about being involved in that church and and Wanting that discipleship

to where she can turn around and disciple her children.

That's to me.

That's the first key.

What do you think

Pete?

Yes, the first key is having church members and have

you know kind of a.

For your kids to the moms

because they're doing so much single moms are

doing.

Just overwhelmed that I

think that you know today.

The guys that are interviews they prep for their

debate.

They've got kind of something in their wheelhouse that they have become experts in if you take them out of that.

They're normal and human just like us.

They become Clark Kent, but you know, if you catch me in my wheelhouse I I might be overwhelming you

catch somebody else in their wheelhouse.

They're overwhelming and a lot of times we can find somebody in their wheelhouse and go be very intimidating go.

I could never do that and I think that in in this time we kind of

Have these kind of little Christian celebrities based on how well they can debate and it's good.

I think we need that we need them out there and there's a place for it.

But I think that we're kind of higher than anyone else.

Anybody that's made a name for themselves as a great debater.

We do admire and we kind of above even ourselves and we

get to a point like a single mom that would believe that.

She can't teach her kids apologetics.

I'm going to tell you what.

The blind man that was born blind that Jesus.

That Jesus healed his

sight probably the greatest one of the greatest apologists that you

will other than you know and he was

healed

and and single moms just need to

know their Bible preach to their children every day and.

Even if you're not the greatest debater.

You don't have kind of a critical mind to be able to create these

moments like that.

Maybe like I do with my children.

Every kid will grow up and go and remember how faithful their mama was to the world.

And that is the greatest.

I want to I want to chime in on that.

Um, y 'all hear me, okay, I had to change my.

You actually sound crystal clear.

Okay, good.

Good.

So I want to chime in on that because I.

When it comes to my mother, I will say that that is what I remember from her.

Even though the theology may not have been on point.

She loved the Lord.

She knew that he died on the cross and resurrected

Inobedience

for wanting to make sure that I was there that is

what drew me.

That's what the Lord used and and I'll agree with what Pete was saying to that, you know, somebody like

me.

Earlier, I'm not a debater.

I I know I'm a sinker

home where that was Developed in me.

Um, it was I spent a lot of time alone because my mom worked so much.

So I was very undeveloped in my communication and it's been later in my life that the Lord is really

with my children.

It's my I feel like my role has been Christ -like character.

Really working on their character really working on their understand what it

means.

You know how it affects us and how that our salvation is not by our work.

You know my that's kind of my area with them is just really because I didn't understand my sin

growing up.

I really didn't.

I knew that I screwed up.

I knew that I did stuff that made me upset with myself.

But for some reason I did not relate that to sin and that being my nature.

Helped them understand that so that when they leave the house.

They truly get that their salvation is only by grace through faith and that that

is even a gift if I can do that for them and Prepare

them in that way and he's preparing them, you know with the apologetics and stuff.

I just feel like then.

Okay, I've done I've done my job as a mom and I am like he said I really do

believe that they'll they'll remember those things with me.

And I want the single moms out there to remember that as well that

you know that they've got it all together.

They have the understanding that a lot of these other even like women authors and speakers.

You don't have to just help your kids have Christ -like character and help them to understand What

true salvation is and the Lord will do sure amen

and to.

Slow down the massive amounts of hate mail.

You may be getting after quoting Hillary Clinton on It takes a village.

I'm assuming that you meant that it takes a village in regard to brothers and sisters in Christ.

Being involved with your family's life not the federal government or anything like.

No.

Yeah, she she's the one that stole that quote.

She didn't originate that thought so.

You gotta dig a little deeper.

Definitely just just you know being a part of a church some places.

It's really hard to find a good sound church, you know.

But keep digging and keep looking and even if you have to drive and I know if you're tired.

But even if you have to drive 30 45 minutes an hour to get there it'd be able

to be around people with like -minded you know hearts and minds and and

just life together and.

Have the advice and the in the wisdom of other people that can give you different perspective and

and and again.

Yeah, help you raise your children.

You know, I think that's even good even for couples not just single parents.

Amen well We have to go to our final break right now.

And if you intend to send in a question do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen and we just have a few minutes left with our guests Pete and Kelly Orta on

apologetics in your own home and our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and we have a

Listener CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who wants to know.

He asks I know that there are Calvinists who are more concerned about converting Christians to

Calvinism.

Then they are reaching the lost but at the same time I think that far too many people who profess to be

Calvinistic or reformed are Embarrassed or ashamed or think that these things that we

uniquely believe as a people should be kept Private or should not be focused

on as much in regard to public evangelism, and I do not agree with that at all.

I believe that even Jesus Christ spoke about things that reflect upon God's

sovereignty over all even salvation.

Even though he knew it would turn people away and that disciples of his left him and never followed him again.

What is your response?

Well Calvinism back in Jesus's time was called Christianity.

The.

Word of God.

The Word of God and he what got what struck so much anger in the

heart of people were defining and

that there and that there is what created persecution

that we read about that he endured.

So then I would as far as people converted

were attentive to converting people to The doctrines of grace verse

preach the gospel and

the the doctrines of preaching

you could convert.

I mean it not you but a person that's claiming to be a Christian could actually be converted by

The distinctions and and me being an example You know

you environment where who figure in world history

and you believe in that.

Then then you're saved.

You'll miss people like me by not getting into a lot of the particulars not talking about

salvation.

Look for Jesus, so.

You know I think that when we look at other people and we see that You know they just seem very

zealous about.

What you've got to understand is like my

kids that grew up in a Calvinistic home.

They're not out on a on a out like I am

in as much.

You know I met a lot of people that grew up Presbyterians that grew up.

I mean I'm sorry second and third

generation people that have been converted like I have or my wife or

other people that I see are out there.

Getting behind Calvinism instead of Christianity, and it's not that it's the fact that we

have been watered down.

And you

need doctrines

when you see people on a rampage out there

go that lens.

But through the other lens from my point of view is like I want to tell people the real gospel because I believed in this False thing

for so long.

Amen.

Yeah, and a lot of it. I think has to do with Providence who you happen to be in the company of at a particular

time.

Whether it's a Christian who needs to be corrected theologically or a lost person who needs to be saved

and of course if all you're doing is trying to convince Christians of a theological

Difference than then you're unbalanced, but both are important.

But anyway, we are out of time unfortunately, and I know already I want to have you two back, but

do you have any Contact information or any way you'd like to conclude this program today.

Well site

Pete Orta comm ke

ll I.

Kelly Orta.

Social media we kind of stay plugged in here and there we're not on it all day.

But you know we do check in so that's that's a way, and I would I would really stress

That the best thing you can do for your child is Preach the gospel to them daily.

Find a small thing that gives them a clearer view of who

Jesus is.

It might be in a correction might be planting

a thought out there that you know they're gonna come across someday, but just.

Amen well I want to thank you both Pete and Kelly Orta for being on the program and Please remain on

the lot please remain on the line so I can give you a proper goodbye off the air.

And I want to thank everybody who listened today all of you who? took the time to write in Mary and

Cork, Ireland and Grady and Asheboro, North Carolina and CJ and Lindenhurst and others who may have

written in.

I want you all always to remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.