November 30, 2018 Show with Jon Cardwell on “Christo-Centric Preaching & Teaching” (& an update on the recent earthquake in Alaska)

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 30th day of November 2018.

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I'm delighted to have back as a returning guest, after a very long absence, my friend

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Pastor John J. Cardwell. He is pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Ninilchik, Alaska, and he is an author of several books, including the new devotional series,

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Jesus Christ, the Bread of Life. And today, Pastor John is going to be addressing

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Christocentric preaching and teaching, and he's also going to be giving us an update on the recent earthquake in Alaska.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor John J. Cardwell.

02:00

Hey, thank you, Chris. It's an honor to be back. It's always a pleasure to hear you on the program.

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It's one of those things where we as preachers and teachers and pastors are given an opportunity to repent before God, because when we hear your voice, your voice is the one we want to preach with.

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Well, I consider that a great honor, as much of that as what you said was true.

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And that is certainly a humbling and wonderful thing to hear. Well, first of all, tell our listeners about Calvary Baptist Church in Ninilchik, Alaska, since the last time you were on.

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I don't believe you were pastoring that specific congregation. You may have been, I just don't remember right now because it's been so long.

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You're correct, Chris. We were actually in Alabama last time we talked. That's right. I was at Sovereign Grace Baptist Church in Anniston, Alabama, halfway between, on the

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Interstate 20, halfway between Birmingham and Atlanta. And at that particular place, we spent 10 years thereafter coming out of Bush, Alaska, rural

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Alaska, ministering under remote villages in rural

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Alaska from 2002 to 2008. And after that brief time in the lower 48 states, we had an opportunity to come back to Alaska, not as remotely as we were in the

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Bush, what they call the Bush of rural Alaska. It's called that because most of those villages, you can't get to them unless you get there by boat during the summer or by plane.

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Can you see Russia from your house? No, not now.

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Actually, where we used to live in Scammon Bay, we were about 70 miles south of the

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Yukon River Delta. We're actually in the Delta, the Yukon River Delta on the south side. But in the winter, you could get close enough to where you could actually see

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Alaska or see Russia from Alaska. So I did live in a place where we were pretty close to be able to see it on the

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Bering Sea. But now, no, it's a little too far. Well, we've got a lot to talk about today.

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Why don't you first of all start with an update on the earthquake in Alaska that has been quite devastating in Anchorage, I believe.

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Yes, sir. Right in Anchorage, actually. It was 8 .29

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exactly, according to the news things. I come in every morning from Monday through Friday around 5 .30

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or 6, have time of prayer, open up the church for folks. And then there's a young man who, well, actually he's not young, he's in his 40s, but he has a

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Bible study with him. He does construction, local construction, has a Bible study. About 8 .30, 8 .29,

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we got hit with a 7 .0 is what the news says. And then it was matched back to back.

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I thought it was about a minute long, but it turns out it was two specific earthquakes. One was 7 .0

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at 8 .29 and then just right on its heels, about a minute to a minute and a half later, there was a 5 .7

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right on its heels, about three miles from Anchorage. It moved in, the epicenter moved a little bit by about five or six miles.

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And it caused quite a bit of a stir. We're in the Nochick, we're on what they call the

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Kenai Peninsula, different from the bush, we're what we call the road system because the roads tie us into Anchorage to Fairbanks.

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And we're 185 miles about south east of Anchorage. And even with that distance, we felt it pretty well.

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There were things falling off the shelves in church, and so it was a pretty big earthquake and a pretty long rumble.

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And we've been feeling tremors all throughout the morning, aftershocks, some of them about 4 .0

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to about 4 .7 to about 5 .1

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we've been feeling all morning. So this is probably a pretty big earthquake for us, a probably the biggest one in Alaska for quite a while.

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Are you aware yet about any casualties in Anchorage area? Um, I have not.

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I've seen a lot of a lot of damage. I haven't seen any reports on I think they're still coming in.

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There might have been some injuries as many people in Alaska are familiar, you know, like kind of like California, we're familiar with earthquakes up here.

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So a lot of people get up under the door jams and get under under desks in school.

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So I've seen some Facebook reports of folks doing that. But some of the damage they have had roads, like Minnesota Drive, right in Anchorage is it has an off ramp, which has completely collapsed.

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There is a at least one car trapped under there. So I would have since it is an off ramp,

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I think that there's some people in there. I don't know what their condition is. They haven't reported on that yet.

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But broken glass, a lot of things falling all around, especially as the tremors just keep on the aftershocks just keep on coming.

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Well, I would urge all of the Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners to pray for the residents of Alaska, especially

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Anchorage, because you never know, there might be even more earthquakes on the heels of the ones they've already experienced.

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And we ask of you that if there are any living individuals who are trapped anywhere that they are rescued.

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And we ask of you all also to pray for healing for those who have been injured, and pray for the families of anyone who may have perished.

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And that this will be used as a providential occurrence in the lives of the lost that they may be drawn to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ after experiencing this.

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And of course, that true Christians might be even further brought to repentance and transformed lives.

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As a result of this, if they have been backsliding or beginning to slip away from the first love of their lives,

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Jesus Christ. But please, please keep Alaska in your prayers. Now, there's a lot to talk about also, because we want to have since you've been absent from our show for such a long time,

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I'd like to have you give a recount of your salvation testimony. And I think it might be helpful after you go through your salvation testimony.

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I'm mentioning it now just so I don't forget. I think it might be helpful to our listeners who may have been diagnosed, perhaps even wrongly diagnosed with ALS, that you give something about an update on your health report because of the fact that that is such a frightening illness and you were wrongly diagnosed with that, or at least there was a suspicion presented to you that that may be what you were battling, which is quite a terrifying notion.

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But before we get to that, give us your salvation testimony once again. Sure, Chris, thank you.

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Yeah, the testimony of Jesus Christ is sometimes an underused tool or vehicle.

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I think these days sometimes we want to, you know, get into the Word without reckoning and forgetting that every salvation is a personal testimony, is a personal witness.

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I was a Navy diver. I dropped out of college, and I want to make sure our listeners know, don't drop out of college.

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It's hard to drop back in. It's hard to get educated after you've dropped out, but I was the son of a son of a sailor, and I grew up in a non -believing home.

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I have, in my background, I have some Hebrew heritage, but we were non -practicing in anything, and we've dabbled in some things, so much so that I actually got baptized at a

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Trinity Baptist Church in Glen Avon in 1972, but basically all

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I did was get wet, because my younger brother went forward at a, you know, quote -unquote, altar call, and I said, well, hey, he can't go up there and me not go up, so I went up too.

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And this is all the time my grandmother, who's, she received the

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Lord, and she was attending a church in El Paso, Texas, and trying to get me to go anytime we visited her in El Paso.

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We were basically mostly in California or someplace where my stepfather, who was in the

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Navy, we were in a Navy town. Anytime we visited her, she took us to a Baptist church, and I was even telling some of these fellows this morning in the

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Bible study, I said, you know, I read a book in 1972 of Jesus my grandmother gave me, and I was thinking, seeing these

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Pharisees, and they'd send them to the cross, and I thought, man, if I was there, I would have believed in Jesus.

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No, I wouldn't have. You know, you look at that, if I would have believed in Jesus, I would have believed in them then, but it wasn't until some almost 13, 12 years after that, just before my 25th birthday, you know, after dropping out of college,

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I'm in the Navy, I wanted to be a Navy diver, Navy frogman, since I was like, seven years old, and so I dropped out of college, went to the recruiter,

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I said, look, this is what I want to do, so I'm a diver in 1984, and God surrounds me with a bunch of Christians, and a couple of them were even divers, you know, one of them came up to me and said, hey, you know, we didn't come from monkeys, and I said,

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I know, I didn't, we didn't come from monkeys, I've been to the

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San Diego Zoo, and monkeys don't do the stupid stuff I do. Knowing of the competition between the different branches of the service,

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I'm surprised that a regular Army or Marine joke didn't come up in that discussion.

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It may have, brother, but Grayson Decorum probably forbids me to even mention it.

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But yeah, they come up and they tell me this stuff, and you know, I had a belief that there was a

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God, but I certainly didn't follow Jesus Christ, and I knew it, but after nine months of these guys witnessing to me, from 1984 to 1985, you know,

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I figured like a Christian diver was an oxymoron. So one day, in the providence of God, the

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Lord brought me to a point where I was beside myself with the sin.

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I knew I couldn't be saved. I even called out to the Lord on this one weekend just before the

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Lord saved me. I said, you might as well strike me down dead and send me to hell, because apparently I can't be saved.

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I was so miserable that I looked for one of the young men who wanted to be a diver, so he worked for me, so I put him to work swabbing the decks in the compartment, just so that I could know where to find them.

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At 8 a .m. on Monday morning, 0800. Okay, man, I am so miserable. I need to get somebody to pray for me.

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So I got down there. I knew exactly where he was. I found him. I said, hey, can you pray for me? He says, can you praise?

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No, I wouldn't be asking you to pray for me if I knew how to pray. So he kneels down, and he goes into what a lot of people call the sinner's prayer,

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I think. That's what I suppose, because of the particular church background he came from.

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Later on, in hindsight, recognizing that they did that kind of thing.

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But as I knelt down, I didn't hear a word he said, but everything that the Lord was bringing through these men for like, you know, the nine months,

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Christ is the Son of God. He is God, fully God, fully man. Although I couldn't articulate many of those things, they did come to me.

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I recognized the thing that I couldn't do, repent, but I could. And that believing on him and having life in his name,

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I knew I had that. It's as if I was kneeling at the cross with my eyes closed. And apparently, he had no...

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I must have been repeating the prayer, because there were no objections. But all of that came to me in a stream of some of the understanding of what that meant, that I was forgiven, and that I was going to spend the rest of my life with Christ.

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And when I realized that, the next thing I heard was amen. And I guess

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I said amen, and opened my eyes, and here he's got one of those tears coming down from his eyes because of having led a sinner to salvation.

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And I actually even remember thinking, why is he crying? And apparently,

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I had some tears coming down from my stream in my cheeks as well. And that was the amazing transformation of John Cardwell.

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And it changed my life right away, because nine months before that, I thought, I've been in the

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Navy for five, six years. I need to get on the ball.

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I don't have a single tattoo, and I'm a Navy diver. And apparently,

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I didn't take that route afterwards, because I was just... every other word out of my mouth was a

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Navy expletive. You know, the term cussed like a sailor.

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In the dictionary, there's the picture of me. The Lord took that away.

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It was so much a part of me. I didn't realize that I was doing it, and somebody came up that afternoon.

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I mean, there was a joy in my heart. There was a burden that was lifted. I remember it as if it was yesterday,

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Chris. And so I was in the dive locker, and one of the divers came in, and he says, there's something different about you.

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I said, because Jesus saved me. And he goes, no, that's not it. And I thought, well, that's it.

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That's it. But he left, and later on, he came back. I can't remember if it was that day or the next day, but he says,

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I got it. You don't cuss anymore. I said, because it's Jesus. Jesus. Jesus has saved me.

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He goes, yeah, yeah. Okay, whatever you say. Well, what was it that made you know that you had a calling upon your life to become a pastor?

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For pastoral, that came a little bit later on. When I departed the

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Navy after 15 years, I ended up having one too many knee surgeries.

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I ended up kind of retiring early with a knee disability after 15 years, and I went right into the mission field,

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Philippine mission field. I didn't think I was called to be a pastor, but I loved to share the gospel with anybody who would listen to me, with rocks even.

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I would talk to a wall. Let me tell you about Jesus, just a practice, I guess.

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And so somebody said, hey, come down to the Philippines. And I said, well, yeah, that'd be great.

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I was stationed in the Philippines during Mount Pinatubo when the volcano erupted there.

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They shut down the base. I was in Japan when I ended up getting out of the Navy. In fact,

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I did a lot of my Bible study, Bible college studies, self -paced in the

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Philippines while I was there, met my wife. And so my wife is being Filipina, and I lived in the

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Philippines for several years and went to the Philippines. And I did evangelism, street preaching, ministry, church helps with the church we were attending there.

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Well, the Philippines holds a special place in my heart because the children, or at least five of the six children of the woman who led me to Christ in the 1980s, are half

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Filipino. And none of them are born again yet, but I've developed very close friendships with them, and they appear to be being drawn by God.

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So keep them in your prayer. But it's interesting how you brought up cursing before, because a couple of them, every sentence had a curse in it.

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And it's interesting. I guess they just got tired of saying, sorry, sorry, sorry. So it's like that it's vanished from their vocabulary, at least when they were around me.

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Yeah, that happens a lot, doesn't it, brother? Well, I interrupted you, though.

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You were going to continue on about your calling into the ministry, I believe. Yeah, well, there

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I was ministering to street kids and things like that, feeding them, sharing the gospel with them, doing some street preaching and that kind of thing, never thinking that the

20:55

Lord would call me into the pastoral ministry. It got to a point where I was reading the scriptures so much,

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I thought, this is a heavy -duty responsibility, the gospel model of the

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Church, the Bride of Christ to the Bridegroom, the whole importance of that aspect, that just the existence of the local church is the model of the gospel itself, just as everything is.

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Everything is the gospel, everything is Christ. And the more that I began understanding that early on, the more

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I realized, wow, what a heavy responsibility it is to be a pastor.

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And I figured, I could be a missionary, I could do some preaching, I could help out in the

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Church, but to have that, take that role as a pastor, having care for the souls within the

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Church, that seems like something that the Lord wouldn't call me to do. And how wrong

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I was. In fact, when the

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Lord did finally call, this is like 1993 to 1995, we're in the Philippines, so I could go back to the

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U .S., I'm in California, I figured, I'd been overseas for so long that the

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United States was just, it was foreign to me. So I thought, well, I'm already on the mission field, being in the

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United States, because I don't understand what these people, and California, wow.

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My hats off to fellows like John MacArthur and Kurt Arendt and all these guys that are,

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Michael Horton, that are in California, because to me, that's like, they need the gospel.

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Well, we all do, don't we, brother? Everywhere we are, we need the gospel. Well, Isaiah, I know that my listeners might be rolling my eyes if they listen to my show long enough, but I'm going to repeat a joke, and I don't even think it was necessarily completely a joke, but I'm from New York, which, the second left coast, if you will, and I was speaking years ago with a

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Reformed preacher from Mississippi, in fact, he was not only a

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Presbyterian, but a theonomist, an elderly gentleman with a real deep, gravelly

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Southern voice, and when he found out during our conversation that I was from New York, or maybe

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I just made it very evident by my accent, he said, well, you guys in New York, you got it easy, because all you got to do is get people saved.

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We got to get them lost and then get them saved. Well, I think

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I've heard you, I think I've heard a program or two where you've said that. You just can't help repeating it, because it's so funny.

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But you know, it really is true. Alabama ended up being a real interesting mission field, because it's kind of true that everybody is saved down there.

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Alaska is kind of like that, especially in the bush. Well, why are you saved? Well, because I'm not a bad person.

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I know who Jesus is, or I said that prayer in Bible camp one year when I was nine. This is a 63 -year -old telling me this.

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Nice. But yeah, so anyway, well, we were in California, and so we got in with, we were doing some work with Open Doors, my wife and I, and I thought, well, where am

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I going to go to next? Oh, China. How about let's go to China? And even

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Brother Andrew of Open Doors was out in California, and he says, yeah, go to China, John.

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We need people over there. If China's where you're going, we'd be glad to have you. You seem to want to bring the gospel to anybody.

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They could sure use it. So here I am starting to learn Mandarin Chinese and putting things together for, let's go to China.

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My wife is praying, no, Lord, don't send us to China. And the

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Lord heard her prayer, so I don't lightly dismiss my wife's prayers,

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Brother. Not at all. And nobody should. And no one should, absolutely. But it wasn't for nothing.

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Those were very helpful. While I was gathering these things and talking about going to China, I had a

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Bible study in my home, and my mother -in -law was attending First Filipino Methodist Church in Riverside, California, and their pastor was leaving.

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And because several of the people of that congregation were attending my Bible study, they said, well, why don't you be our pastor?

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I said, because the Lord hasn't called me to pastoral ministry. And besides,

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I'm a Baptist. Sorry for interrupting you, but one thing that I have found that's interesting,

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I don't know if this is as large a phenomenon as my own experience would reveal, but the

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United Methodist Church, which is obviously known today as an extremely liberal, even apostate denomination, and yet, when

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I have encountered people specifically from ethnic groups that dominate a particular

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United Methodist congregation, especially when they are conducting services in a foreign language or so on, like Korean or Chinese, they tend to be a lot more conservative than the mainstream

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United Methodist American churches, lily -white ones, etc. I don't know if that's,

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I don't know if it's, as I said, any larger than my own experience or that phenomenon. I seem to have experienced that myself.

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They seem to be much more conservative, yeah. Much more than your typical

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United Methodist, some of the things that they have embraced, especially in the

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Asian cultures a lot more. Right. And I think that the denomination where if a local, predominantly

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Caucasian American congregation were going into a much farther right -turn direction, the denomination might come down on them, but I think that they tend to leave the ethnic congregations alone.

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Yes, I think they do, as far as their, what they call their districts and so forth.

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I had to learn a little bit of that stuff. You know, at first I said, well, you know, I'm Baptist, and then

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I had the, right on the heels of that, I said, and I'm Reformed Baptist. They had no idea what that was.

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Sovereign Grace, what is that? What's that? By the way, when did you actually discover and embrace the doctrines of Sovereign Grace?

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I had early on, very early on, you know, as we joked, I think last time

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I was on the radio, you know, what is it, a couple years ago, but I said, well, and God saved me, let's see, was very

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Reformed or something like that, or very, through Sovereign Grace, and I think you chimed in and said,

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Stephanie saved everybody through Sovereign Grace. That's right. Oh yeah, touche, you got me there, brother.

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But I was in Hawaii when I was actually at my kind of first,

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I was just, when the Lord first saved me, I was still on board a submarine tender and in the station within the dive locker there.

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So my, you know, my church service attendance was like a chapel service here, where one of the brothers would invite me to a

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Presbyterian church, another one to an Assembly God church, it was, it was varied. So by the time

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I got to Hawaii, I was in a particular church, which was non -denominational, and they lean more towards an

29:20

Arminian view than they did Reform. However, the pastor that was very free in quoting

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Charles Spurgeon and John Bunyan and Jonathan Edwards, and so I started reading

29:32

Edwards, and I read The Pilgrim's Progress for the first time, and I'm only, you know, nine months old in the

29:38

Lord or so. I read all the way through the Bible, parts I, there's parts I got, parts I didn't get.

29:44

I took the attitude of saying, well, you know what, this is, this is your word, Lord, and I don't know if I'm going to get parts like Jeremiah and Lamentations, and I didn't get much of that, but I'm going to read it all.

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And as I was reading it, I was surprised at the things that he was sharing with me and showing me, and I read

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The Pilgrim's Progress for the first time my first year as a Christian, and I just,

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I was flabbergasted. This is my testimony, and I've read it about twice a year, every year since 85,

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I think, at least part one. Yeah, it's amazing how universally beloved

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The Pilgrim's Progress is, even outside of the Reformed faith, because you are amazed that Christians, even very learned ones who are not

30:34

Calvinist, cannot see the doctrines of grace screaming through the pages of that.

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And of course, Charles Spurgeon's sermons and anything he has written, it's amazing that you have some fundamentalists and others who hate

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Calvinism, who claim to love Spurgeon, and you wonder, have you really read or re -read the things that you love?

30:59

How can you miss the fact that he believed in the doctrines of sovereign grace? But anyway, I'm sorry. No, that's quite all right,

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Chris. It's your show. In fact, we're going to pick up on Pilgrim's Progress when we come back, and then we'll get into the meat of our topic today fairly shortly after,

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God willing. But if anybody has a question that they'd like to ask of John J. Cardwell, especially about Christocentric preaching and teaching, although since he is a pastor, we will broaden the sphere of subjects from which you can choose to ask questions.

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Anything pastoral would be accepted, and anything regarding the doctrines of grace. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

31:42

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

31:51

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away. We'll be back with Pastor John J.

31:58

Cardwell and Christocentric preaching and teaching right after these messages from our sponsors. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org. That's irbsseminary .org, two

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled

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Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

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Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

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Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

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Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Hi, Phil Johnson here.

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I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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So I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the

38:30

G3 conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic,

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A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference from January 17th through the 19th.

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Exhibitor's booth to say hi to Chris. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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That's g3conference .com. See you there. My name is

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

39:21

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

39:27

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

39:33

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

39:42

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

39:48

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

39:57

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

40:04

.nyc. Have a great day. And keep in mind, as large as Manhattan is,

40:11

New Covenant Church, NYC, is one of the very few congregations in Manhattan that is sticking strong to the historic understanding of the doctrines of sovereign grace and reform theology and Calvinism.

40:28

Although there may be denominations represented that came from that background, many of them have slid off the rails and are heading very quickly into the brick wall of liberalism and leftism.

40:45

It's very good to know that a church like New Covenant Church, NYC, exists in the most religiously and ethnically diverse mission field,

40:55

I think, in the world, New York City, and also one that is very left -leaning in that area, obviously, and in a very dark area when it comes to the gospel.

41:07

So we thank that there is a bright, shining light coming from the pulpit of New Covenant Church, NYC, and we hope that you visit there.

41:18

And if you are living in Manhattan, we hope that you join there. And please let them know that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

41:27

We are now back with our guest today, John J. Cardwell, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Ninilchik, Alaska, and author of several books, including the new devotional,

41:38

Jesus Christ, the Bread of Life. We are going to be soon discussing our main theme, Christocentric Preaching and Teaching.

41:44

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And John, you were in the stage of your testimony in regard to your call to the ministry where you had embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace after hearing them through such great minds as Charles Haddon Spurgeon and John Bunyan, and we were discussing

42:06

Pilgrim's Progress. If you want to pick up where you left off. Yes, sir. Yeah, Pilgrim's Progress.

42:12

I actually started reading, I read a few sermons of Spurgeon, but early on in my

42:18

Christianity, this must be 1986, I'm in Hawaii, I'm a

42:23

Navy diver there at Mobile Diving Salvage Unit, and Spurgeon I didn't quite get at first.

42:30

It wasn't until after a couple years of reading the writings of Bunyan that I finally got it, because I heard that Spurgeon read the

42:39

Pilgrim's Progress since he was a young boy, and he loved it so much he read it twice a year.

42:47

I said, well anybody who loves Bunyan that much is worth reading. So I picked that up and picked up Spurgeon, and now

42:53

I was starting to see some things. I've grown in grace, so it was probably about two or three years after the

42:59

Lord had ministered unto me the truth of the doctrines of grace that I was able to digest

43:07

Spurgeon. Yes, Spurgeon actually, and I know I'm going to butcher the quote because I don't have it in front of me, but he said of John Bunyan that his blood is bib -line anywhere you prick him oozes out the

43:19

Bible or something like that. Yeah, yeah, prick him anywhere his blood is bib -line. Yeah, there you go.

43:26

That's, yeah, and true, and true of both of them. It's like, I would use this expression down south, of these two men the scriptures rolled off their rolled off their tongue like warm butter on a hot roll.

43:45

And then the southern people would go, Yankee? You didn't say, you didn't use the right accent. Now, Yankee, I'm sorry if I forgot already, but where are you from originally?

43:59

I was born in San Diego, but as the son of a son of a sailor. Oh, that's right. All over. I lived all over.

44:05

And the son of a son of a sailor is in a song, isn't it? I think it is. I don't think it's a

44:12

Christian song. No, I don't think it is. That's why you and I probably aren't as familiar with it.

44:23

There's a blindness the Lord has placed on us since we've come to know him. So, you are, now the doctrines of grace became,

44:35

I should say, into your belief system before you were ordained into the ministry or after?

44:41

Oh, before. Quite, quite before. By then, I had, let's say, even in eschatology,

44:49

I was amillennial with historical pre -mill leanings.

44:55

Since Bunyan and Spurgeon, I think that there's a lot of evidence that both of them were probably historical pre -mill, that I can see where they're coming from from it.

45:09

But I pretty much took a Reformed position. Well, actually, I had to grow into that.

45:15

I take that back, because they were teaching me a dispensational pre -mill, and I didn't know any better.

45:23

So, I guess, actually, that's almost a segue into Christocentric preaching.

45:33

But I had the doctrines of grace, and when I was called in the first pastor, which was a

45:38

Methodist church, I said, well, you know, I'm a Baptist. Oh, and not only that, I'm a Reformed Baptist.

45:44

Sovereign grace. I've seen the doctrines of grace. Where are those? Oh, I'm glad you asked!

45:50

Let me tell you! And I was so scared, I said, you know, pastoring a church, what a heavy responsibility that is.

45:59

And I told my wife Lisa, I said, you know what? They're going to vote on it tomorrow. I am not going to take it unless it's a unanimous vote.

46:08

How will I know? I don't know. But unless the vote's unanimous, I am not going to take this pastorate.

46:15

I mean, I was already envisioning problems, because it's a Methodist church.

46:20

It's also predominantly Filipino. There's a few non -Filipinos within the congregation.

46:27

And then, you know, it's not a Reformed Baptist church, and plus it's a pastorate.

46:33

So after church service, we went for a walk. They were meeting in a storefront kind of thing.

46:41

And when we came back, the church board chairman said, I'm pleased to announce that we have unanimously selected you to be our next pastor.

46:50

And I said, okay, this is where the fun begins. I've preached there before.

46:58

The previous pastor loved me, and he would ask me to preach once a month or so for him at that church,

47:08

First Filipino Methodist Church. And so what's changed?

47:13

I've preached there before. So my first message, the Bible was opened up to First Corinthians chapter 2, verse 2, where I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and I'm crucified.

47:23

And I said, that's it. That's the keystone to this ministry. That's what I'm going to preach.

47:28

I preached the first message, and then I started walking through Romans over the next year and a half.

47:35

And boy, I was called on the carpet just about every week. By the way, just to let you know, are you familiar with Dr.

47:43

Tony Costa, my friend over at Toronto Baptist Seminary? Yes, I am familiar with him. I have never met or interacted with him.

47:50

Well, he's a wonderful brother, brilliant and yet humble, one of those rare combinations. But he is obviously being on the faculty at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

47:59

He's a very strong believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace and the 1689 confession and so on.

48:06

But he is now on the pastoral team at a Wesleyan church in Canada near Toronto.

48:14

And the other pastor there is also a Reformed Baptist. So that's quite interesting that this

48:19

Wesleyan church has called two men to be their shepherds, under -shepherds, who are thoroughly

48:26

Reformed. Amazing. I mean, you know what, and I would never have even entertained it for a second had

48:34

I not read that little blurb of Spurgeon's biography that he was the...

48:42

Saved in a primitive Methodist church. A primitive Methodist church. That's right, during a blizzard.

48:49

Right, and my wife, you know, our joke is that my wife attended, because my mother -in -law was attending the first Filipino Methodist church when she was in the

49:02

Philippines. My wife was a member of the Wesleyan United Methodist Church in Olongapo City in the

49:08

Philippines. And, you know, I'd mentioned that to our Baptist friends. I said, but you know she's Baptist now.

49:17

And believe it or not, there are, I have met, pastors in the United Methodist denomination who are

49:24

Reformed Baptists. They cannot, I guess, officially adopt the 1689 or other

49:32

Calvinist confession as the confession of the congregation, but they, as a personal conviction, they are governed by the 1689 or other

49:45

Calvinist confession as their secondary authority in the church.

49:53

But anyway, just thought I'd share that with you, because it is interesting to meet them at Reformed conferences on occasion.

50:01

That's amazing. I don't feel so alone. Because, you know, here

50:07

I am, I'm using the Spurgeon's Puritan Catechism with my children in this church, in this

50:12

Methodist church. I'm using that at home with them, Spurgeon's Catechism. We're reciting the 1689

50:18

Lenten Baptist confession and reading portions from Robert Murray McShane's reading plan, and so I guess we're

50:28

Methodist by name only. But that actually, that opened the year and a half, just less than two years that we were there,

50:39

I ended up having a back injury in God's providence, and then it looked like if I needed to get a job, because I was bivocational to pastor that church there, and it opened up an opportunity for ministering in Alaska.

50:56

I saw on the internet, they had this little thing, there's a church in King Cove, Alaska, and I called out to my wife, hey, maybe if we're going to have to move out of the state anyway to find a job, how about pastoring a church?

51:08

King Cove Bible Chapel in King Cove, Alaska. She said, submit for it. So apparently all our plans to go to China were, by that time, had not only been put on hold, but had been scrapped altogether.

51:23

And we went to King Cove, Alaska, we were there for a few years, and then we went further north to the

51:28

Yupik natives in Scammon Bay, which is right on the coast of the

51:36

Bering Sea, about 535 air miles from Anchorage, and ministered there to, the denomination there was the

51:48

Evangelical Covenant Church. And so here, being at heart

51:53

Sovereign Grace, Reformed Baptist, 1689 -11 Baptist Confession, I've yet to step foot into a

52:01

Reformed Baptist Church. So God has a tremendous sense of humor, but he gave us a love for Alaska.

52:15

It's not an easy place to minister, just by the weather itself, which is interesting, because I think,

52:22

Chris, you right there in Carlisle, you probably have far more snow than we've got here in Alaska, in Anchorage.

52:31

Never would have guessed that. Yeah, you've been experiencing, especially this year where you've actually had that real big storm, they had more snowfall in northeastern

52:42

Alabama, north central Alabama, than we had here. Wow. Well, now you have reached the point where you are a

52:54

Sovereign Grace believing pastor, and the Lord eventually brought you back to Alaska, and I'm sure that the saints in Alaska, in your area, are very grateful to God for that.

53:07

Yes, sir. Since coming back, I've realized that there were a lot more, when we were out in the bush, when we were isolated, when we were remote,

53:16

I thought I was alone. I thought I was the only one preaching the doctrines of grace out there.

53:23

I was, in some respects, in the bush, I may have been, but on the road system here that connects all these villages from Anchorage to where we are here in Inuktitut, down to Homer, the halibut fishing capital of the world, all the way up to Fairbanks and so forth, there were men of God holding to the doctrines of grace and loving

53:48

God's sovereignty and desiring

53:54

Christ to be exalted. It's just amazing, and I've met some of these men, and they've been faithful to stay here in a place where there's so many empty pulpits, just because sometimes the environment is harsh, sometimes the dealings are difficult, because it's still, in some senses, there's a kind of frontier attitude out here.

54:20

Well, I hope that some of my Alaskan listeners are tuned in today, because I know that we do have listeners in Alaska.

54:28

We have received, on occasion, for quite a number of years, questions for our guests from Alaska, and so I hope that either they're listening live, or they will eventually hear it, and that those that are near you, if they're not at your congregation already, that they wind up there.

54:47

Yes, sir. Well, we're going to our midway break, and when we return, we will begin our discussion on Christocentric preaching.

54:55

This is our longer break than normal, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM, in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle, because they have to localize

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Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, and they air their own public service announcements and commercials during this break.

55:16

So I would ask of you to use this time wisely. Please write questions for John Cardwell regarding our topic, or at least regarding the broader theme of Sovereign Grace, or any pastoral question that you have, but the main theme is

55:31

Christocentric preaching. And also, use this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers, because we rely upon the advertising dollars of our sponsors to exist.

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So the more you patronize them, the longer they are likely to remain our advertisers, which means the longer we are likely going to remain on the air.

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So again, please use this time wisely, write down questions to John Cardwell, and send them in to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com, and also write down the information provided by our advertisers.

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James White here, co -founder of Alpha and Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

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A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Josh Weiss, yours truly, and many more.

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I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, senior pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join

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I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

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January 24th through January 26th. Thank you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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I think after you fill in whatever you have ordered that will be an option to make a comment or a description or something like that.

01:08:54

I can't remember exactly right now but it'll be some option like that where you can say that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:09:02

That's very important that you let our advertisers know that if that is the case. Before we return to John Cardwell we just have a few special announcements about events coming up.

01:09:14

First of all the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon is coming up and I'm so delighted that the aforementioned

01:09:22

Dr. Tony Costa, the Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary in Canada will be once again my keynote speaker at the

01:09:34

Pastor's Luncheon. This luncheon will be held at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall again and it is absolutely free of charge to men in ministry leadership whether you're a pastor, an elder, and I happen to believe those are the same office, deacon, leader in a parachurch organization.

01:09:54

Send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com if you'd like to come. It's absolutely free of charge and every man is going to be leaving with at least one perhaps even two heavy sacks of brand new books.

01:10:08

Absolutely free of charge to you. Every time I have a Pastor's Luncheon the majority of the major Christian publishers in the

01:10:15

United States and the United Kingdom donate a hundred copies each of a title

01:10:22

I select from them so that every pastor who attends can leave with a copy of that book and as I said since nearly every single major publisher in the

01:10:30

United States and the United Kingdom does this there are quite a number of books there on hand that you'll get absolutely free of charge.

01:10:36

Nothing is for sale at the Onion Trip and Zion Pastor's Luncheon. The admission is free and everything that you receive there is free including feasting upon God's Word from the likes of someone in the caliber of Dr.

01:10:50

Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary and of not to mention the free lunch once again this year being provided by our friends at Firehouse Subs and we're so thankful for that.

01:11:03

Send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com if you would like to attend the luncheon chrisarnzen at gmail .com

01:11:09

and then immediately following that from Friday the 4th of January through Sunday the 6th of January Dr.

01:11:18

Tony Costa is going to be speaking at an Iron Trip and Zion radio conference on the theme the most dangerous threats to the

01:11:26

Christian Church in North America in the 21st century. That will be held at Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania where my dear friend

01:11:36

Pastor George Jensen is the pastor and if you'd like to attend that conference which is also free of charge and the conference by the way is open to anybody man, woman or child

01:11:47

Christian or non -Christian everyone is welcome and it's absolutely free. You can call

01:11:52

Enola First Church of God at 717 -732 -4253 717 -732 -4253 or you can go to their website enolacog .com

01:12:03

to find out about directions especially and you could also email me chrisarnzen at gmail .com

01:12:13

chrisarnzen at gmail .com to get more information about the conference. Then coming up later in the month of January the

01:12:19

G3 conference returns to the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia a suburb of Atlanta and I'm so delighted that I am going to be manning an exhibitors booth at the

01:12:31

G3 conference once again. This will be my third year in a row manning an exhibitors booth. The theme this

01:12:38

January will be the Mission of God a Biblical Understanding of Missions.

01:12:43

The conference will be held Thursday January 17th through Saturday January 19th.

01:12:50

There is a special Spanish -speaking edition of the conference so tell your Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that that's

01:12:57

Wednesday January 16th but the English -speaking conference is Thursday January 17th through Saturday January 19th and the speakers include

01:13:06

Votie Baucom, Stephen Jay Lawson, John Piper, James R. White, Mark Dever, Stephen J.

01:13:13

Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:13:19

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa and Chancellor of African Christian University.

01:13:28

Man I think is the most powerful preacher on the planet earth alive today. Tim Challies, Phil Johnson of John MacArthur's Grace to You ministry and many more are on that lineup.

01:13:39

So if you would like to register for the G3 conference go to g3conference .com

01:13:46

g3conference .com by the way the G3 stands for Gospel Grace and Glory in case you're wondering and I strongly recommend that you not only register to attend but if you have a parachurch organization, a business, a professional practice, a special event or a church that you want to promote in that crowd of between four and five thousand people that they are expecting

01:14:09

I would strongly urge you that you register urge that you register for an exhibitors booth as well.

01:14:17

I am going to be there manning one and it always has proven to be a very fruitful and beneficial experience for Iron Shrop and Zion Radio to be in that large crowd at the

01:14:26

G3 conference. Go to g3conference .com g3conference .com then coming up later that month in January the 24th through the 26th of January the

01:14:39

Deep South Founders Conference is going to be held at the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel Mississippi. I will be manning an exhibitors booth there as well for the very first time.

01:14:47

I've never even been in Mississippi before I'm looking forward to it. The speakers at this conference include

01:14:54

Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw and the keynote speaker that I just mentioned is also speaking at the

01:15:02

G3 conference Conrad M. Bayway. The theme is sanctification and if you'd like to attend the

01:15:08

Deep South Founders Conference go to deepsouthfounders .com deepsouthfounders .com

01:15:17

and then finally I'd like to ask you please if you love

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Iron Shrop and Zion Radio if you hold on a second I have to take a sip of coffee there's something in my throat I love that blind dog coffee keep in mind that brand of coffee if you want to have the best in and exotic coffees blind dog coffee but anyway if you love

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Iron Shrop and Zion Radio and you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves please go to ironshropandzionradio .com

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click support then click click to donate now we are once again facing very scary times financially and I would really appreciate it if as many of you as possible can cut this off at the pass and help rescue

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if you prefer the old -fashioned snail mail method and we always try to remember to remind you that we never want anybody siphoning money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Shrop and Zion Radio never do that never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Shrop and Zion Radio because those two things are commands of God providing for church and home providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands if you have enough money in your savings to add to your benevolence well please if you love the show and you don't want it to go away go to ironshropandzionradio .com

01:17:28

click support then click click to donate now and donate as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can to Iron Shrop and Zion Radio that is of course if you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves if you want to advertise with us send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:17:42

and put advertising in the subject line we will help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we surely do need the advertising dollars as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe here you don't have to believe identically with me but you just need to be promoting something compatible with what

01:17:58

I believe and if you don't have a church home and if you're not prayerfully looking for one you are living in rebellion against God so please if you are having a hard time finding a church home or you don't have one please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:18:15

and put in the subject line I need a church home because I have been used of God to successfully find church homes for many people all over the world who have written me asking for that help and if you'd like to ask a question to John Cardwell our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:18:35

chrisarnsen at gmail .com and we are discussing Christocentric preaching and teaching and Pastor John Cardwell before we go into that major theme of Christocentric preaching tell us about the devotionals that you are beginning in January Jesus Christ the bread of life well thanks

01:18:55

Chris it's available now on amazon .com because I am self -published

01:19:01

I could almost feel the you know your average listeners dropping off because they heard

01:19:09

I was going to be on the show oh it's just that guy no

01:19:14

I seriously doubt that's the guy yeah I mean that's the joke we used to have I've been on sermon audio for like since actually since we uh and the joke was that somebody uh somebody would come to our church in Alabama and they said oh how did you find us you know we're kind of a little out of the way we're a little rural in Alabama and they said well we heard you on the internet and I said and you still came or or the other one there was also another response somebody said well we listened to one of your sermons and I said uh oh uh and they said on sermon audio and I said oh so you're the one and I've heard people tell me thinking they're paying me a compliment

01:19:52

I heard your show the other day wow you almost sound professional oh no

01:20:00

I love your voice Chris I sincerely meant that I mean I love uh it's one of those things where I I've always thought you know if I didn't stammer if I had that you know that Columbia School of Broadcasting voice like uh and I did not go to the

01:20:18

Columbia School of Broadcasting by the way but uh you know you you certainly you have a particular calling and your eloquence uh in fact uh you know you just uh the questions too everybody says this about you know you the questions and you're keeping it right on topic and and uh and not afraid to ask tough ones either uh it's you've got that reputation and so it's a uh it's a fearful anticipation to go on Iron Sharpener.

01:20:48

So as far as the devotionals I know you were intending to do one every month and the one for janitor

01:20:54

January is already available what different kinds of themes are you going to be addressing over the year? Oh pretty much it's it's the one theme

01:21:01

I got one good one string on my guitar Chris and I play it to the other Christ Christ and him crucified and um and that's why the

01:21:10

Christocentric preaching and teaching uh portion is uh you know that it would seem to go right along with that Jesus Christ uh the bread of life uh they were devotionals

01:21:22

I started writing devotionals right away but I never sent them out by email for uh a long time

01:21:31

I didn't even until recently I started sending them out to our congregation and they've taken off a little bit there's some people that sign up for receiving these devotionals and I thought well this would be good for to bind them for those that don't have email or use email and I have a devotional journal and a paperback uh you know they would have a month of devotionals and as one writer uh from a recent blog who got a hold of an advanced copy uh she this is the thing that she mentioned concerning it which

01:22:05

I've always felt like this about some of the devotionals and I won't name them but basically let's see where's that thing she says uh but uh she says that a lot of times the devotional type books that she has received they're sometimes just a few words from an obscure passage and writes a feel -good blurb with the goal of encouraging you throughout the day often the message is weak at best the verse used is taken way out of context and not once is the true gospel message

01:22:42

Christ Jesus mentioned or even alluded to and certainly she's not talking about morning and evening by Charles Spurgeon haha certainly not or um or faith checkbook or or any of those uh those devotionals there um this is why

01:23:00

I was hesitant to even publish this I mean here I take on you know Chris I take on projects like let's write a modern translation of of the pilgrim's progress you were insane okay let's you know the morning and evenings out there by Charles Spurgeon there's all kinds of good devotionals out there so let's write a devotional so why would so but the one of the things that I wanted to do was really express the thing that had been uh the hallmark of our ministry since the

01:23:34

Lord called me in the pastoral pastoral ministry preaching the congregations of believers is the gospel

01:23:39

Christ is the gospel as you know and so being Christ -centered is the it should be what our devotional life is about I think there's a we've grown in a misunderstanding or at least in a caution concerning devotions and I think that parallels say

01:23:59

Christ -centered preaching as well there's a certain cautions and and and caveats that we must have however sometimes we we're so skittish about error creeping into our congregation that we may we may avoid certain things and we may not be as Christ -centered as we think that we ought to be and devotionals are one way that if I have somebody that I know is a the

01:24:28

Lord has called into the into preaching teaching or pastoral ministry

01:24:33

I encourage them to write a devotional every day it's not something they have to send out but it'll help them and that's what

01:24:39

I was writing devotionals for because I was doing family devotionals with my family we're reading through you know

01:24:46

Robert Murray McShane's reading plan and so we're covering four portions of scripture what do you what do you tell your children about this portion of scripture so I would write things out the night before knowing what passages of scripture that I would have and and then present that as a devotion and so I was writing devotions for years just for my family as I started growing in confidence concerning you know this might be a blessing to our congregation for those

01:25:15

I had emails for in Alabama at Sovereign Grace Baptist Church or just without permission

01:25:20

I just sent it to them here you go this is this morning's devotion for you and some of them would read it some of them wouldn't there

01:25:27

I was blessed to receive some feedback on it from the members said I've really that really ministered unto me and then they would tell me what they ministered to and I said

01:25:36

I didn't write that preaching that happens a lot you know what would what did you like best about that message today and then they tell you a good thing the

01:25:48

Holy Spirit was ministering to me I I've I frequently hear more than I care to admit people say to me

01:25:55

I really loved your show the other day it was absolutely phenomenal it was life transforming it was mind -blowing oh wait a minute that was the dividing line with James White sorry oh god love brother

01:26:09

James well we will keep our listeners up to date uh about these uh devotionals in fact you know this is a good way if you want uh

01:26:20

John to make sure that we interview you every month because we could pick up uh something from each devotional every month uh in 2019 from the devotionals oh absolutely

01:26:34

Chris I'm I'm uh I would be very uh privileged and honored I'm privileged and honored to ever be on your show like I said

01:26:41

I I could almost I could almost sense the the listener dropping the ratings dropping from your show every time

01:26:49

John Cardwell's on their show no that's not now we're talking about uh the main theme today is christocentric preaching and teaching now what is that be to be contrasted with and obviously that would be man -centered preaching and teaching uh but uh we who are reformed uh and in fact anybody for that matter uh when we are preaching and teaching or when we are reading books that we buy or get from the library or wherever we get books um there is a balance to be struck

01:27:28

I believe and I think that you would agree with me although we are not to focus on things that uh make our lives improved uh as Joel Osteen has titled one of his books your best life now and as John MacArthur rightly responded to that if your best life is now that means you're going to hell but um there there can be uh and there is tragically in the evangelical church at large an imbalance there where uh your best life now and having a better marriage and all the other kinds of things that we uh deal with in our day -to -day lives are discussed and emphasized in preaching and teaching but at the same time even christocentric preaching does not ignore things like better marriages and better lives on this earth that are more obedient and in conformity with Christ himself wouldn't you agree with that I absolutely agree now there you go there's a short interview for you yes oh no absolutely

01:28:47

Chris if I don't if I'll just dovetail upon that is that true christocentric preaching or if you want to call it gospel centric preaching um it will be applicational but if it's not christ -centered application just becomes works basically and and so therefore it wouldn't be christocentric it would be uh it would be uh christ is basically an addendum it is uh only on the side we just kind of add that in or another illustration would be uh well we've gotten saved uh the cross the cross of jesus christ is wonderful but we've moved on from there uh i've been there done that bought the t -shirt let's uh let's get into something more and and it'll either be doctrine or it'll be duty one of the two but if it's not devotional first and there's a misconception concerning that if we if we're not devoted unto jesus christ then what good is our doctrine and what good is our duty nothing it's it might we must be devoted unto he who has saved us and and that's you know that kind of goes along with why the devotionals are written we have a perspective upon christ but it should affect our lives such that it informs and regulates what we believe is doctrine so we don't err but also that it is uh uh applicational and practical to our lives that we may um that we may submit ourselves to dutiful service to the god who has saved us well before we go to a break our last break i am going to read to you a question from a listener and then i will have you answer it when we come back uh gordy in mechanicsburg pennsylvania asks how important is a pastor's hermeneutical approach in attaining and maintaining a christocentric message that's gordy and mechanicsburg and we'll have you answer that after these final messages if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own please do so now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time chris arnson at gmail .com

01:30:56

is our address chris arnson at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back with the conclusion of our interview today with john j cardwell hello my name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas the word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing do you have the desire to serve jesus christ in pastoral ministry 20 years ago the institute of reformed baptist studies at westminster seminary california was born for those two decades these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in reformed baptist churches it's been a wonderful partnership now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the master of divinity degree this is irbs theological seminary we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of god that jesus christ is god in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune god in all things irbs theological seminary is dedicated by god's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines do you sense a call to serve jesus christ in his church as a pastor why not consider irbs theological seminary you'll find more information at irbsseminary .org

01:32:20

that's irbsseminary .org two s's in the middle i hope to hear from you soon god bless you paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant hi i'm mark lukens pastor of providence baptist church we are reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofork massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near nofork massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

01:33:41

that's providence baptist church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com providence baptist church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org

01:34:59

that's liyfc .org linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call in brook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

01:35:52

that's linbrookbaptist .org gotta tell you for my money chris arnson's radio program is just the best iron criticizing i think that's what it's called this is todd friel of wretched radio and tv with phil johnson of grace to you inviting everybody to come to the g3 conference which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country and it is it's a great conference i love it and chris arnson was there last year he's been there i think every year it's great to see him there you and i actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place which is a highlight tons of stuff going on tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear chris arnson's laugh and that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join phil me chris and a cavalcade of great preachers so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me g3 conference .com

01:36:50

g3 conference .com my name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier ministries i serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles i would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor it's called new covenant church nyc they are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan you can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

01:37:28

.nyc they believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel if you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again their information can be found at www .ncc

01:37:52

.nyc have a great day chris thornson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:39:32

that's chrisarnson at gmail .com hello i'm dr gary kimbrell senior pastor at bethlehem baptist church in laurel mississippi and i'm hoping that many of you who listen to chris arnson's iron sharpens iron radio program will join chris and me at the deep south founders conference thursday january 24th through saturday january 26th here in laurel if you love god's word and love to hear it powerfully preached i can assure you that you will not be disappointed our speakers at the deep south founders conference this year include rusty reed gerald henderson jason goodwin bobby crenshaw and our keynote speaker all the way from zambia dr conrad mbaywe who has received the nickname the spurgeon of africa and i for one believe it's a very accurate description of brother conrad for more details go to deep south founders .com

01:40:30

that's deep south founders .com i look forward to giving a big mississippi welcome to many iron sharpens iron radio listeners january 24th through january 26th thank you listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics if you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org

01:41:27

they feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters pastor joe jackowitz pastor robert gifford al martin edward delcour and more firstloveradio .org

01:41:47

also live streams my iron sharpens iron radio program daily please stick around on firstloveradio .org

01:41:54

after iron sharpens iron radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace spread the word about firstloveradio .org

01:42:19

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solid -ground -books .com mike gadosh as i have repeated on this show uh had recently undergone very serious and complicated and dangerous open heart surgery thankfully much to the praise or all to the praise of our lord and savior and great physician jesus christ he successfully underwent that surgery in his home recovering uh but that surgery did set him back financially while being laid up in the hospital so please try to replenish that which was lost by going to solid -ground -books .com

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first make a very long list of books and then go to cvbbs .com and order those books you could kill two birds with one stone and bless both of my clients that deal with books so keep that in mind during the and always we are now back with our guest for the final 15 minutes or so of the show john j cardwell who is discussing christocentric preaching and before the break we had our listener gordy in mechanicsburg pennsylvania uh who asked how important is a pastor's hermeneutical approach in attaining and maintaining a christocentric message um i'm grateful for the question thank you gordon from uh mechanicsville i have some friends up that way mechanicsburg oh mechanicsburg oh that's different that's that's a that's a neighbor town to carlisle here yeah i was thinking of mechanicsville in virginia but uh yeah mechanicsburg i have friends in mechanicsville too in fact jeff uh downs is pastoring the knox reform presbyterian church in mechanicsville now yes yes all right well hey uh shout out to both of those uh wonderful uh serving the lord yeah um and i appreciate you mentioning uh mike gadosh i uh i didn't know that about his uh open heart surgery i'll have to get i get in touch with him but uh well you know he moved from uh from uh serene alabama to the political hotbed of florida so it doesn't surprise us that it uh put a little stress on him well he needed the heart surgery before he needed the heart surgery while he was still living in alabama though oh from that oh really oh he had the surgery in florida but i said but he needed it while he was living in alabama yeah everyone needs it while we're in alabama but um everyone without christ needs it i know i'm digressing i've just uh ruined your show for that's quite right i'm sure mike gadosh loves the extra attention so people remember to pray for him and patronize him absolutely um the hermeneutic it is it is uh uh it isn't all important uh even though certain times we might want to bring an emphasis of the gospel for both uh believers and unbelievers and especially actually an emphasis for a pastor for believers uh though i started off in street preaching uh though i started off in evangelism and and i'd still have an evangelistic heart my priorities with the with the members of the congregation in particular with those that attend first and foremost but even the membership that have attached themselves to the local congregation in particular and in act 1711 uh uh you know i'm not the harbinger or the uh the watch dog of error but uh so it because it's the congregation's responsibility too they got to check out what i'm saying to make sure it's lined up with the word of god by act 1711 you know uh search the scriptures daily uh so as they're searching the scriptures daily they're just as responsible but having a good hermeneutic uh and to make sure i'm defining that for our uh listeners to you know dealing with interpretation especially of the biblical or literary texts but hermeneutics is that branch of knowledge it deals with interpretation especially of the biblical and literary text we want to know what it's saying first and foremost we know as far as it it is christ -centered everything speaks of jesus christ jesus himself said so in john 539 search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life but they are they that testify of me um basically jesus is quoting the old testament in a sense as from psalm 40 verses 7 and 8 uh low in the volume of the book it uh testifies of me i'd like to do my do thy will oh my god so um so basically it's all about jesus it's all about the gospel but not understanding its background seeing its context what it's speaking about that can very damage our um very damage our preaching our ability to convey the scriptures convey the truth of scripture to convey christ in an appropriate way and that because that brings up certain misunderstandings in christocentric preaching and teaching uh some that exist and some of them rightly so there when you mention allegory in order to present the gospel as a picture or type or model that comes from a portion of scripture whether old testament or new testament there are some preachers that are skittish about even using the word allegory because for several years uh in the past uh the past hundred years allegory has actually uh taken a new form and shapes somewhere around the turn of the 19th to 20th century it started to get uh it started taking on a meaning apart from the place where it's used like in galatians chapter four where it actually uses the word allegory in chapter 4 verse 24 speaking of hagar and sarah but allegory took on a meaning of uh well i'm going to uh take a portion of scripture and um and enlighten you to with my own opinion and uh that that that's why sometimes even in the deep south it is uh you know you have to uh get them unsaved again before you preach the gospel to them because they have all their preconceived notions still and since we have pre since our presuppositions exist we need to correctly uh we need to correctly harness our presuppositions so that the gospel uh becomes the very center of uh because christ who is the gospel becomes the very center of the text uh that we are interpreting uh we still want to use all the regular tools of uh interpreting it by cut by its context its historical context what it was speaking to that audience using a proper exegesis to be able to um pull from the text that which is its original meaning but to um to reinforce the the truth of the gospel um the gospel is what actually provides us the the the framework if you will of what the doctrines of grace are about or any theological doctrine uh when we when we elevate the doctrine and and make the gospel of jesus christ so servient to it then we have erred nothing is greater than the gospel of jesus christ and that actually informs our doctrines we can um we recognize the the roles of men and women because of the gospel of the gospel the reason why marriage exists is because the gospel of ephesians 5 tells us that women uh the the women were even created and marriage even exists because christ is the bridegroom to the bride and that's why the local church is so important um in fact sometimes we don't we ask we start asking the wrong questions but if we have the gospel uh when we have a christocentric a true christocentric view um in seeing these things we uh can say well you know people will come up with a question well did uh uh was god sovereign in adam's fall or was uh uh that he'll just let it go willy -nilly well we've asked the wrong question it exists because god makes the point that that that even though a man is created perfect in wisdom holiness and and knowledge that apart from the gospel of jesus christ all he can do is sin all he can do is fall uh children uh parents to children there is the gospel model because we're called children of god and so with these gospel models permeating our uh our thinking saturating our thinking um we can our our doctrines can uh be honed and now and we can and we can see that so that we can have our we can be devoted unto christ and then and uh not stray from the doctrines of the bible which exalt christ so that we may perform our duty unto christ which is our joy to do because he has saved us the the christocentric preaching has also um the reason why there's some other misunderstandings is everybody's jumped on the bandwagon uh with uh with the term because they didn't want to use the term allegory in the first place but even our um those with uh can i say uh i'll be politically correct for a moment and say with a less sovereign grace view but basically there is a large um there is a large outcry among armenians among those who um who uh don't hold to the to the doctrines of grace the way we do however um that would seem to just by itself seem to be an oxymoron concerning christocentric preaching if your emphasis is applicational and your emphasis is on man's decision or what it is that we do because christ has done everything then it's not centered in christ christ is not exalted in that and so it becomes kind of an oxymoron even though it has uh there's a lot of ringing within armenian circles to to bring about christocentric preaching but i'm grateful that it is because i think that if they really get on to what christocentric preaching is uh they'll be uh they'll start becoming less armenian preachers and of course there are our dear armenian brethren who sometimes uh when you sit and listen to their sermons that you would swear that they were officially and consciously theologically reformed very often you have men who are faithful to the scriptures uh and because of that even if they have not consciously come to embrace the doctrines of grace through their exegesis they are preaching the doctrines of sovereign grace even if they're unaware of it am i making sense here no absolutely it's just like uh what uh said there's no such thing as a non -calvinistic prayer right exactly well anyway uh gordy mechanicsburg you have won a free copy of jesus the bread of life but we must tell you that they are in transit we do not have them yet uh so crumlin valley bible book service who will be shipping those books out to our winners does not have them yet so please be patient in fact i know that you actually pick up your copy right at cvbbs in carlisle pennsylvania because you live so close and i know that in the past that you have done that so uh drop them a line or call them to make sure that they have the books before you stop by to pick up your free copy uh we have john and bang or maine who says i understand that we should be christocentric in preaching and teaching but if we are going to be using expository methods for preaching and our text is not specifically on the person and work of christ especially in the old testament and i must tell you that i know that jesus christ is present in the old covenant and that he has eternally existed but should we then move on from the text that we have been preaching on and at the end bring our focus to christ how do we do this to remain christocentric if we are involved in expository preaching that is the that is a great challenge for every preacher and pastor uh that is that is dealing with a text um there are times where uh where when i first began doing this some near 20 years ago that it was a it was a it certainly was a challenge other sometimes where it is certainly speaking of uh the sinner itself a sinner himself and there's no way that it could be applied to christ in uh in its in its uh initial context however there's some places where we see when there is for example for his judgment and like in the old testament where there's judgment upon uh where this text is talking about judgment upon them we look at uh or upon the person that is being addressed whether uh first person you know i'm repenting uh or uh third person as uh hey this nation is is sinning and this is what god's going to do uh it is it is christocentric in the sense that we recognize the wrath of god poured out upon jesus christ um we are worthy of of receiving that judgment um but jesus christ received that judgment so every um every uh coal of brimstone that is poured out upon sodom and gomorrah uh it is christocentric in that that's what we deserve yet jesus christ received it in himself suffering the wrath of god and it takes some time it takes a lot of it takes a lot of time on the knees it takes a lot of asking the lord where is christ and how can i preach christ from this text sometimes it might be where you have four verses of four or five verses of scripture you may have to go to the sixth verse to be able to round it out sometimes it uh it ends up working that way well we are out of time and we're going to have to have you back to continue the theme of christocentric preaching soon uh thank you john uh give us your mailing address because you've also won a free copy of jesus the bread of life and uh i just want to thank everybody for listening today especially those who took the time to write if you'd like to find out more about our guests today go to calvary baptist uh nilchik .com

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and nilchik is spelled n -i -n -i -l -c -h -i -k nilchik it sounds yiddish uh calvary baptist nilchik .com