January 7, 2019 Show with Dr. Joel R. Beeke on “Reformed Preaching: Proclaiming God’s Word From the Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of the People”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on the 7th day of January 2019.

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This is actually, if I'm not mistaken, the first live broadcast of the new year.

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I could be wrong about that. I've had a lot of activity going on but it is certainly one that I am thrilled about because one of my favorite preachers, teachers, authors and radio guests has returned to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

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Joel R. Beeky today. And before I formally introduce him,

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I want to just give a praise report about the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon that we had this past Thursday at the

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Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It was a phenomenal success by every way you could determine success for an event like that.

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Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary was our keynote speaker and we had once again nearly a hundred men in attendance at this pastor's luncheon.

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The food was absolutely free of charge, compliments of our friends at Firehouse Subs of Carlisle, Pennsylvania again, and we had thousands of free books that we were giving away for free that I selected from numerous publishers all over the

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United States and the United Kingdom who donated a hundred copies of each of these titles that I selected so that every man could leave with a copy.

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And in fact some of those books arrived late so when we have our spring edition of the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon, God willing, there will be even more books there because some of them arrived on the day of the event and we could not give them out on Thursday.

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But I just want to thank everyone who was involved in it. I want to thank all of the pastors who came.

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I of course want to thank Dr. Tony Costa speaking. I want to thank my dear friend Pastor George Jensen of the

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Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania who was an enormous help and who also hosted a conference following the luncheon featuring

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Dr. Costa that had rave reviews by all who attended.

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And I want to thank of course our friends at BatteryDepot .com,

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LinbrookBaptist .org, and also our friends who published the New American Standard Bible who sponsored this event, this

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon. And perhaps I'll be giving you more details in the days ahead about this, but I am just thanking

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God so much, more than I can describe in the English language, for this wonderful event.

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And it is keeping an event that my precious late wife Julie came up with.

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It was all her idea in the 1990s to treat men in ministry to a free luncheon because she knew being in Christian radio that the majority of my friends actually are pastors.

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I have an unusual circle of friends. Not everyone could say that most of their friends are pastors.

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Most of my friends are pastors because I've been involved in Christian radio most of my adult life.

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So my wife said, let's treat these men to a Christmas luncheon. And this tradition kept going until she went home to glory with Christ for eternity.

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And I relaunched her luncheons after relaunching my radio show in 2015 here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, when

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I moved from New York to Carlisle. And every luncheon has been a wonderful event that people continue to rave about.

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So thank you, my precious Lord, God, Savior, and King for blessing this event.

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Well, as I said, our guest today is Dr. Joel R. Beekie, and he is probably not a stranger to most of our listeners.

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But since we have new listeners joining the audience of Iron Trip and Zion Radio every day, he may be new to some of our listeners, especially if they are outside of the

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Reformed faith. And we do have many who are not even Christians, let alone Reformed. But Dr.

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Beekie is an author. He is also a professor and the founder at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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And today we are going to address one of his books, Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the

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Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of the People. And it's my honor, privilege, and joy to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr.

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Joel R. Beekie. Great to be with you, Chris. And I want to urge everyone, if you ever see an advertisement somewhere, either on this show or you see it on the internet or you receive it in the mail, a notice about Dr.

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Beekie preaching anywhere, I would strongly urge you to take a plane, train, automobile, helicopter, boat, or whatever you need to do to get to hear him preach, because he is truly one of my very favorite preachers of all time.

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And he is an extraordinary man of God, a brilliant man of God, very biblically literate, and his preaching and teaching is just oozing with God -breathed truth from the holy scriptures.

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And I look forward to every opportunity I have personally to hear him preach and teach. He preached at the church where I was a member on Long Island before moving here,

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Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, and I have heard him preach on a number of occasions at other places.

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But Dr. Beekie, before we get into your book, and before we even get into other projects you're working on that we want to start having our listeners informed about,

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I want to have you, for those of you who don't know who you are, to let them know about Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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Okay, Chris. Well, yes, Puritan Reformed Seminary was commenced about 24 years ago now, and presently we have 224 students,

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I believe, who've been served by us in the past year, and we have accredited degrees for a

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Master of Arts and Religion, an MDiv degree for the regular ministerial degree, a

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THM mainly for those who are already ministers, already have their MDiv degree, and then about two years ago we opened an accredited

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PhD program, which we do in Biblical Studies and Historical Studies.

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And the students come from, 50 percent come from North America, and 50 percent come from 27 different countries around the world, and from 32 different denominations, but they're all pretty much

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Reformed in their theology and committed to want to live a life that is not only academic and learned in terms of informing the mind, but also a life of godly piety.

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That's the focus of our program, that we combine academics and piety.

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Praise God. And if anybody wants more details about Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, you can contact them, or you can look up their website, which is

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PRTS .EDU. Am I correct on that? That's correct.

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PRTS .EDU. Well, before we go into, as I said, the heart of our program today, the topic that we are going to be primarily addressing,

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Reformed Preaching, tell our listeners about some other projects that you are working on that are very important to you.

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Well, the most important one right now, I think, that excites me the most is a four -volume set called

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Reformed Systematic Theology, which my TA is working on with me, so he's co -authoring it with me,

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Paul Smalley. And what it does is it takes my lecture notes of the last 25 years on systematic theology, and he's fleshing them out and putting footnotes in, and then

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I come along behind him and proof and edit and tweak and so on. And volume one, each volume is going to be about 1 ,200 to 1 ,300 pages, and volume one is coming out in eight weeks from now.

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So we're excited about that, and we believe that the emphasis in these books, which will do four things in each chapter, is to first look at what the

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Bible says about a particular truth or doctrine, and then look at what was developed in Church history about it, both the pro and the con, and then we look at the experiential emphasis, that is, how you experience this doctrine, how it relates to you in your internal being, and then we look at the practical takeaways from this doctrine.

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How do you implement this doctrine for your spiritual gain and the gain of others in your daily

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Christian life? It's going to be written, or it is written, at a level for the educated layman, also for the beginning seminary student, and for the pastor and catechism class teacher, and that type of thing.

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So it's got a wide target audience, and it does address all the current issues of the day, but it also addresses all the doctrines of grace, and it's a traditional

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Reformed systematic theology, made contemporary, but really emphasizing the experiential and the practical as well.

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Great, and so was that all you wanted to mention as far as the new projects, or should we move on to the

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Reformed preaching? Well, I've just come out with some books, I might mention those a quick minute.

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Sure. I just published a book with a Christian focus called Knowing and Growing in Assurance of Faith.

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I did my dissertation topic on that 30 -some years ago. Yes, I remember that. In fact, I got a copy of your dissertation years ago from Peter Lang Publishing.

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That's right. It was a phenomenal book, and then it was later republished in a more popular form,

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I believe. Yes, yes, by Banner Truth Trust. So what Christian focus asked me to do is to take my studies and any thinking

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I've done on the subject in the last three decades, and write a popular -level book for the regular layperson.

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So that's what this book is, Knowing and Growing in Assurance of Faith. And then we also, from my own publishing house, we published

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Reformation Heritage books. We published a book that I co -authored with Christopher Bogosh, who's a pastor slash hospice nurse, and it's called

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Dying and Death, Being Rightly Prepared for the Inevitable. And I do the chapters that are more related to spiritual preparation for death, and he does the chapters that relate more to, you know, how long do you stay in chemotherapy, how heroic measures do you use, and how do you prepare your will, and that type of thing.

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So getting ready for death, both spiritually and naturally.

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And then we're reprinting the complete works of William Perkins, who's the father of Puritanism, and we just came out with a volume that I edited with another professor here,

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Greg Salazar, volume six of ten volumes, and this one is the apex volume of what

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Perkins is known for, his book A Golden Chain. And here he, in this volume, he works a lot with the doctrine of predestination, showing that it gives hope to man, and it's not an enemy of man, but actually election is a friend of sinners, and he talks about free grace and free will and being prepared for the end of the world, and some other books in volume six.

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And that's, you know, Perkins was so popular, Chris, in his own day that he outsold

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John Calvin's works three to one in England, for some strange reason.

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No one has ever bothered to go through all the work of retyping from the 1600s edition all of his writings in contemporary

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English, so we're finally correcting that serious error.

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So he's the father of the Puritans? It'd be like not having Calvin's writings today, and it's ridiculous.

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So finally we're getting these out, we're doing two a year, and next year we'll, or this year, this year we'll be doing seven and eight, next year nine and ten, and then what we're working on is a popular level book about Perkins.

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We have a little biography we published about a year ago about it, but we're doing something about his teaching now, the popular level, and we're going to be doing a more academic book on Perkins, and once we get the whole set out in the fall of next year, then we hope to give a special price for the whole set, and these two books we'll probably throw in as freebies so that people will get to know, hopefully,

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William Perkins as a household name. And then two other things. I came out with a book from Van and Hook and Rubrik recently called

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Debated Issues in Sovereign Predestination, and I look at the Lutheran view of predestination, and then what

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Calvin taught about reprobation and how he developed it, and then I look at the various Genevan theologians and how, after Calvin, how they treated the doctrine of election and reprobation.

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And then we've just come out with a book for children, Puritan Heroes it's called. It's a coffee table book with beautiful pictures, colored pictures throughout, looking at the lives of 22 of the most famous Puritans with an introduction about who the

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Puritans are and a conclusion about 10 lessons we can learn from the Puritans today.

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And this is really for the whole family. You can read it to your children or they can read it themselves.

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Children 10 and up, but adults will appreciate it as well. And then the last thing

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I might mention is a book has just come out from Christian Focus on Puritan Piety.

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This was actually a special surprise to me at the last annual conference we had because it's a book written for me, actually.

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A lot of my friends wrote in it to surprise me as a kind of little honor, but I want to recommend the book because the book is so rich, talking about what the

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Puritans really meant by piety as a positive thing.

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So people like Sinclair Ferguson, Richard Muller, Ryan McGraw, Mark Jones have written chapters in here, and it's just a really, really good book.

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So all of these books are available from heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks .org

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at discount prices. We're a non -profit book ministry. So those are some of the things

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I've been working on, but I'll let you get back now to Reformed Preaching. Great, and I also want to announce our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

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Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N - Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, your country of residence if outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you are a member of a church and you disagree with the theology there, we would not want you obviously to identify the name of the church.

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Maybe you're a pastor and you disagree with the theology of your own denomination. There could be a number of reasons why you would want to remain anonymous, and we will permit that, but please only request to remain anonymous, as I said, if it's a personal and private matter that you want to ask about.

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And that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. One of the reasons I love the title of this book,

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Dr. Beeky, especially the subtitle, is that it seems to militate against not only hyper -Calvinism, which does exist, but it does also militate against the stereotypes that non -reformed

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Christians have about Calvinistic or Reformed preaching, proclaiming

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God's word from the heart of the preacher to the heart of the people. As you probably know,

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Dr. Beeky, sadly there is a stereotype, and on occasion it is an earned stereotype, that Reformed preachers are emotionless, passionless, stoic.

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They are professorial. They do not have their heart beating with passion for the lost or for even the doctrines that they're teaching.

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It has been often said that our preachers are only lecturers, and there's nothing wrong with lecturing when it's appropriate, but I'm assuming you would agree with me that these are stereotypes about the preaching of Reformed pastors, and unfortunately sometimes that stereotype is true because there are those among us that perpetuate that view of our preaching, because that's exactly what some of our men are doing.

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But our Arminian and non -Reformed friends would be sadly and tragically mistaken if they think that all

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Reformed preaching and preachers are stale and lifeless and passionless in their preaching.

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But please explain, in your own words, the title of your book, especially the subtitle.

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Yes, well, the subtitle is Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of His People, and what

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I'm trying to do in this book is simply look at what the old ministers used to call

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Reformed experiential preaching. Experiential preaching means to speak to the heart and to separate the believer from the non -believer in preaching

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God's Word faithfully, but even more importantly, to have spiritual applications to the soul so that the whole man is ministered to in preaching, head, heart, and hands.

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And the idea is that you inform the mind, you then penetrate the heart with the blessing of the

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Holy Spirit, and then the hearer goes out and feels compelled to do the

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Word with hands and feet, so to speak. So that was the old way of Reformed preaching.

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In fact, all the way from the 16th century to the mid -19th century, all

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Reformed preachers preached to the heart. They were all basically experiential preachers.

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It's been a recent phenomenon that some Reformed preachers have kind of minimized preaching to the heart.

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So in my seminary, what I do is I have a class that I teach, first of all, on preaching, sermon construction and delivery and organization.

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I team -teach that actually with Dr. David Murray. And then our second class is just called

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Reformed experiential preaching, and that's a full class all semester long, which I talk about how can a preacher reach the heart.

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And that's what I'm doing in this book. In fact, this book is a simplified digest of that course.

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And so in the book, I'm really doing three things. I'm first explaining what experiential preaching is, and secondly,

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I'm looking at 24 examples or so from Ulrich Zwingli, the first Reformed preacher in the 16th century, to Dr.

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Martin Lloyd -Jones in the 20th century, showing how they all have preached experientially in different ways.

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I might focus on, say, preaching repentance with one and preaching Christ with another. But how do you preach

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Christ? How do you preach repentance? How do you preach other doctrines to the heart?

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That's the question. And I look at our forefathers, how they did it. And then the third part of the book is, how do we cross the bridge and do that as ministers today by the grace of the

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Holy Spirit? Praise God. Well, one of the things—let me ask you about this because it is something that I have heard from that group among us,

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Reformed preachers, that although they might not describe their preaching as passionless, they get concerned, they get upset, they want to distance themselves from compassionate preaching.

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A pastor who is filled with emotion because he is truly heartbroken for the lost and he is truly in love with the doctrines that he is preaching.

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Because they think that emotion that is dominant in a sermon is going to perhaps manipulate the minds and emotions of the listener, where you will have unregenerate people giving responses to the message that wither away within not only days, weeks, months, or years, but sometimes hours.

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And they just want to distance themselves from that passionate preaching. And what is your response to men like that, that speak like that?

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Well, whenever you have people approach you with objections to things, the first thing to do is to say, yes, there is some wisdom in that, and there is.

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There are preachers who are full of passion and energy and shout and yell and do all kinds of other things in preaching who don't have biblical content.

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But what the Reformers and Puritans were saying is something far different. And I would say to that individual,

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I would say, it's common sense, isn't it, that preaching should relate to the whole man.

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And so what the Reformers and Puritans did was they first appealed to your intellect. They laid out a truth in front of you based on the text of the

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Bible. And then they appealed to your conscience and to your heart and went deeper and went inward.

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And then they appealed to, how will you now go out and do this sermon? How will you go out and live this sermon, your hands and your feet?

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So again, ministering to the whole man. And so in good sermons, they're not full of passion from A to Z, because sometimes you're just communicating historical material at the beginning, or you're setting forth a doctrine as a statement of truth.

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So then you speak about the way I'm speaking right now. Right. I know that they don't call them stewardesses anymore.

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A flight attendant, if a flight attendant is passionately telling you about the escape exits and all these kinds of things, you might be fearful, wrongly, that you are in jeopardy of dying or something, that the plane has something wrong with it.

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But when there is no need to fear, she is just calmly instructing you about these exits and safety precautions and so on.

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But when the urgency is needed, of course, there might be a different level of energy involved.

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But if somebody is screaming everything they're saying, the parts that are important are going to be missed.

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Am I right? That's right. That's right. Let me give you an example. I'm just going to try to do something off the top of my head.

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I don't know if this works over radio, because you can't see me, but let me try it. So here's a

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Reformed preacher, and he's going to speak for a couple of minutes now in his sermon about some reference to the intercession of Christ at the

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Father's right hand. So he would say something like this. You know, our congregation, this is a wonderful doctrine, because Jesus is always at the right hand of the

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Father, interceding for us. And sometimes it's difficult for us to pray and to have him praying for us is a really encouraging thing.

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Now he's praying for us continually. He's praying for us in a way that will always be answered.

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Now, all of what I just said is true. And really what I just said can comfort the heart if you really absorb it, because that's an amazing thing that Jesus is always praying for us.

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But that's quite different from preaching it like this. Dear congregation, this doctrine of the intercession of Christ is so precious to the believer.

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I hope you know something about it. When you come to an end of your own prayers, and you feel your helplessness and your hopelessness, and you fly by faith to the intercessory work of the

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Lord Jesus Christ, and you see that he is interceding for you, moment by moment, according to the

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Word of God, what a comfort this can bring. You never need to despair. There is comfort in this.

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Comfort in a mega way for each and every one of you who trust in the intercession of Christ.

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He will never fail for you at the Father's right hand. Trust him, my friend. You see, now you're speaking not just with more passion, but you're touching the heart strings and the affections.

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And that's a good thing. We're made up as human beings of mind and soul and hands and feet, and our soul is moved by affections.

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So you don't move people's affections just to move their affections. You move their affections by truth, truth that is precious to them.

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And so in a sermon, you're using all kinds of tones of voices, all kinds of varieties.

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You would never preach a historical part of the sermon the way I just preached right now to you about intercession of Christ.

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So at Puritory Reform Seminary, one of the things we do a lot is we try to do practice preaching with our students and show them where the more experiential, where the more heart parts are of the sermon, and how to preach from their heart to the parishioner's heart.

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Now, would this be something that would be under the category of homiletics rather than hermeneutics?

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Correct, correct. Homiletics is the art of preaching. So that's my field of teaching here.

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I teach homiletics and systematic theology, whereas hermeneutics would be in the

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Old and New Testament departments. How do you interpret Scripture? We have other faculty that teach those courses.

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Well, we are going to our first station break right now, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr.

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Beakey, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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Please give us, as always, at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

29:59

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back, God willing, with Dr. Joel Beakey and more of our discussion on Reformed Preaching, proclaiming

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God's Word from the heart of the preacher to the heart of the people. Hi, Phil Johnson here.

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I'm Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

30:39

So I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the

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G3 Conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Votie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference from January 17th through the 19th.

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpen's Iron Exhibitor's booth to say hi to Chris. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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That's g3conference .com. See you there. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

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I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

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In the providence of God three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

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Kabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

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What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

35:23

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

35:29

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

35:35

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

35:44

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans? Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838

35:52

Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website bbclaurel .com.

36:00

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or bbclaurel .com.

36:10

Thank you. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is

36:15

Dr. Joel Beeky, who will be with us for the entire program, and he is an author, he is a professor, and he is the founder of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and we are addressing

36:29

Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the

36:34

Preacher to the Heart of the People. If you have questions of your own, feel free to email us at chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

36:41

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, and I did get an email from one of your authors with Reformation Heritage Books, Dr.

36:53

Beeky, Bill Buchestein, I believe it's pronounced. You may know of a better person.

36:58

Yes. Did I pronounce it correctly? Buchestein. Okay, and he wanted to have us highlight for just a brief moment the coloring book that you have published through Reformation Heritage Books.

37:14

If you could speak on that for a moment. Okay, yes, yes, Bill is a URC pastor in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and he has recently, he's written a few books for us, he's recently done a coloring book for children to color their way through church history.

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It's a fascinating idea, so he takes like one or two church heroes from each century, and the children color the pictures, some exciting picture of that person's life, and then there's a little caption underneath or a little printed material talking about that individual.

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So the idea is that your children have a little basic primer here in learning church history as they color.

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By the way, Bill has also done a book for us, a very, very good book on eschatology, that is the doctrine of the last things, heaven, hell, death, judgment, and, you know, is there a rapture, is there a thousand year period, are you pre - or post -meal, that type of thing.

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What does that mean? I think that book is coming out in about two or three weeks, but it's a really good book for the average church member to really get a handle.

38:32

It's very simple, I think it's 150 pages short, but really covers the ground well.

38:40

Great, yes, I've had the privilege of meeting Brother Bill on several occasions, and I've had him on this program on a number of occasions as well, and it's typically on a historical figure from church history, and even more specifically somebody that has been long forgotten, unfortunately, that he brings back to the consciences of 21st century

39:04

Christians. But looking forward to getting Bill back on the program, perhaps to address one of those books that you just mentioned.

39:13

Going back to our theme, Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the

39:18

Preacher to the Heart of the People, I have some things that have rose up in my mind about some of the major problems in preaching today, but if you could, before I go on with any of my own thoughts on this, what do you think are the greatest problems, you might even go to the extent of saying sins, when it comes to failures of men in the pulpit, and failures of men behind microphones and television cameras who are preaching and teaching, that are not only, unfortunately, growing in popularity outside of the

40:00

Reformed faith, but even within. If you could mention some of those things. Oh yes,

40:07

Chris, there's so many to mention. Let me be gracious here and just pick out a few of them.

40:13

One of them certainly would be not preaching the Scriptures, not really having your sermon flow out of your text.

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Even in this subject area I'm talking about, Reformed Experiential Preaching, there are men who focus on the experience of God's people who just preach about that isolated from the text that they're preaching on that particular

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Lord's Day, and that's a travesty. So no kind of preaching should be detached from the

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Scripture. Even topical preaching should be tethered to the Scriptures. So that's a huge problem.

40:49

The second major problem would be that far too many preachers today are preaching more what their people want to hear than they're preaching thus saith the

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Lord. And when you cave in to pressure, you've got a huge problem, because then you just speak peace, peace to people, and you lose the exhortatory, the warning note in preaching.

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And that's one of the problems is so many men today preach without warning.

41:24

Thirdly, a number of preachers today are preaching only to God's people in their church, and they say things like this in their sermon.

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If there's anyone here that doesn't know the Lord, then they preach the Gospel for a minute. But the problem is they give the hearers the feeling, well, maybe there's some really notable sinner here.

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I wonder who that could be. Certainly can't be me. Can't be more than one or two people in the church that are unsaved.

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Whereas our forefathers always preached to the saved and to the lost. A little bit more to the saved, of course, but to comfort and guide and mature the people of God.

41:58

But they always preached evangelistically to the lost. And there's always lost people in every church, adults who think they're saved who aren't, or people who are seriously backsliding, or children that aren't saved, or teenagers that aren't saved.

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So that's a problem. And then, of course, the problem we've been talking about, not preaching to the heart, where we're preaching is only addressed to the mind.

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And the full, whole counsel of God, as Paul describes it, is not brought to the hearer.

42:30

And then, lastly, let me mention this. We've got the huge problem today of people going to church just to get comforted and not to be aroused to their duties and not to be convicted.

42:43

You know, a good sermon, a good sermon will usually exhort us in some area of our lives, as well as encourage us.

42:51

And when people walk out and say, I feel like I've been in the presence of God, and I've been exhorted and encouraged, that is encouraging to me.

43:01

Because you don't go to church just to hear, I'm such a good Christian. You go to church to hear also areas that you need to work at with the grace of the

43:09

Holy Spirit. And so the whole idea of a health and wealth gospel that's so common all around the world, where you just tell people sweet things about themselves, and you just deal with all the how -tos of the

43:22

Christian life. If you just do this, everything will be good in your life, and you don't talk about God and about His holiness and about the travesty of sin.

43:33

You know, you're not being a faithful preacher to the gospel. We need to preach in such a way that people, by the grace of God, leave the church hating sin, loving

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Christ, and pursuing holiness. Amen. And to segue into something that is probably more the problem amongst some in the

44:01

Reformed faith, and also our brethren who are known as fundamentalists, because it's certainly not the mainstream problem, or at least the most significant problem in mainstream

44:13

Christianity today. But there are those, perhaps a minority, amongst us who are

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Reformed and those who are fundamentalists, who preach in the reverse of what you said.

44:25

They have nothing to say other than frightening warnings of condemnation.

44:33

They scold those who listen to them preach, and their messages are filled with nothing but the frightening descriptions of the torments of hell and the warnings about it.

44:50

But they're joyless, they're hopeless, they're graceless, and that is something that must be avoided too, even if it is a minority of—a problem in the minority today.

45:02

Don't you believe that? Of course, of course. And thank you for bringing it up, because that just illustrates my overall point, that whenever you depart from Scripture and you just have one or two hobby horses to run on, you will always become an ineffective pastor because you're not bringing your people the whole counsel of God.

45:23

So there are passages where you need to preach serious, solemn, warning sermons to your flock, and you better be faithful to those passages when you come across them in your

45:33

Bible expositions from the pulpit. But that's by no means the majority of Scripture, so you have to just be faithful to the

45:42

Word. People should be able to walk out of your sermon and say, the text that was given at the ministry expounder's day, he opened that up from A to Z, both for my mind and my soul, as well as for my practical daily life.

46:00

Excellent. Well, we have a listener in eastern Suffolk County, Ronald, who asks,

46:09

I know that this has been brought up many times on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, but I haven't heard specifically

46:15

Dr. Beeky address it, so I want to ask it again. I am very seriously concerned about the dominance of topical preaching in pulpits and storytelling rather than exegetical and expository preaching.

46:32

Does Dr. Beeky believe that expository preaching is the more faithful model, which in my opinion not only forces us to cover much greater ground in the

46:43

Scripture, but also is a tool of God to prevent us from hobby -horsing on our favorite issues?

46:53

Well, that's a great question, and it's a complex question, and I may not give exactly the answer that your questioner wants here, because it's quite possible to overreact to a faulty topical form of preaching today and storytelling preaching, and then revert to a position where the only way to preach is straight through a

47:22

Bible book. That is not what the Church has done for 1 ,950 years.

47:30

It's only the last 50 years that there have been preachers that said that's the only way to do it. I mean, certainly there were certain preachers, like Calvin in particular or Chrysostom, who would often preach through Bible books, but not exclusively so.

47:45

My favorite way personally is to preach straight through Bible books, but it's also good to do some topical preaching from time to time, and I'll explain why.

47:57

In our Dutch tradition, we do preach from the Heidelberg Catechism because it summarizes the whole of biblical teaching about particular truths.

48:09

So, for example, in Lourdes Day 18, it's all about the ascension of Christ. Now, you can preach through many

48:15

Bible books. You can have a ministry for 20 years in a place and never ever once preach about the ascension of Christ.

48:23

The ascension of Christ is a tremendous doctrine that really gives a lot of comfort to the people of God.

48:32

So, when you cover a catechism every other year or so, and you preach it topically, once every other year, your people will hear a sermon on that very rich doctrine.

48:45

Now, how do you preach it, however? That's the key. Well, you take a particular text that really focuses on that doctrine, or you take three or four of them, perhaps, and you preach them, but you give an overall view of that doctrine, again, gleaned directly from the

49:00

Scriptures. That's topical preaching at its best, and that must not be thrown out.

49:07

Just because some people are abusing topical preaching to a degree that is unprecedented also in church history, where they're just using it to get across their own ideas and ride their own hobby horses and get away from Scripture.

49:23

Good topical preaching tethers you to Scripture, and it brings you everything that Scripture says about that particular subject.

49:31

And that's a legitimate way of preaching. I don't think that should be the only way of preaching. I really believe in expository preaching straight through the

49:39

Bible books, but you can also do expository preaching through good topical preaching. Well, thank you,

49:47

Ronald, for the excellent question. Please make sure you give us your full mailing address in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, because, thanks to our generous friends at Crossway Books, you have received a free, or you will receive, a free copy of Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the

50:03

Heart of the Preacher to the of the people. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, and RJ says,

50:14

I remember at a Banner of Truth conference you gave wonderful lectures on what we should maintain in our preaching from the

50:26

Puritans' example, and also what we should avoid from the

50:31

Puritans' example, things that they did, typically, that you found problematic. If you could, just for the sake of our listeners who missed this conference, just give us a few examples of this, obviously because of the time restraints today.

50:49

Yes. Well, on the positive side, I think one of the things that the Puritans did that we need to emulate is they had a section in all their sermons called

50:59

Uses, U -S -E -S, and what they meant by that was, how do you use this truth

51:05

I've just expounded in your daily life, in your spiritual life, in your marriage, in your family, and that kind of application at the end of their sermons, but also somewhat throughout their sermons, after they make an exegetical point, is a model for us.

51:21

They are far, far better at it than most preachers are today. They also knew how to preach to the heart, and they weren't afraid to preach the whole counsel of God.

51:34

They feared God more than they feared men, and they feared the smiles of God and the frowns of God more than the smiles and frowns of men, and we need to get back to that, where we really preach the

51:48

Word of God. They were also tremendous wrestlers in prayer for their preaching, and they would go home after the sermon and pray some more that the

51:57

Holy Spirit would apply it to hearts, and we certainly can learn from them in that area as well.

52:04

What I said in that lecture, areas that may be problematic today would be that the

52:12

Puritans often would take a text, exegete it for a couple pages, give you the basic meaning of it, and then they would gather it up into a doctrine, and then they preached the rest of the sermon topically.

52:23

That was their normal way of preaching, and I think today there is a place, as I just said, for topical preaching in a catechetical way, but I think it's better to preach straight through a

52:36

Bible book and let the text speak directly for itself in an expository manner, and gather your theme and your major points directly from the text, rather than developing a doctrine based on each text.

52:51

The other thing that the Puritans did that doesn't work today is that they often break up truths into two parts.

53:04

The Romistic method of education, this was common in their schools, so children could follow a sermon that had two main points and then two sub points under those two main points, and two sub points under the sub points of the two main points, and two sub, sub, sub points, and maybe to five levels.

53:24

Today, people can't follow that. They don't know where you're at anymore because they're not educated that way.

53:31

So it's not a fault of the Puritans for their own day, but it's a fault of ministers today when they just try to imitate the

53:38

Puritans, because most people today can't get far beyond sub points.

53:45

So you have your, say you have three main points in a sermon, maybe 0 .1, you have five sub points, maybe 0 .2,

53:52

you have three or four, maybe 0 .3, you just have two. Probably those 10 sub points isn't enough for one sermon, and you don't need to go to sub sub points.

54:04

Rarely, rarely should you go to sub sub points. There may be a case or two where it's called for people can follow it, but never go to sub, sub, sub points.

54:12

It just, you lose people. So that's a lesson we should avoid from the

54:18

Puritans in following their ways. Great. I'm going to ask you a question by CJ in Lyndonhurst, Long Island, New York, and then have you answer it when we come back from the break to give you time to think about it.

54:33

By the way, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, this is our elongated break that we air in the middle of our two major segments of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

54:46

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they air local commercials and public service announcements in order to localize

54:58

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to the Lake City, Florida area. So please be patient as we take this elongated break and use this time not only to write your own questions for Dr.

55:08

Joel Beeky, but also to write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more successfully and more frequently patronize them, because we rely on our advertisers financial support in order to remain in existence.

55:26

So the more that you patronize our advertisers, the more likely we are going to remain on the air for a longer period of time.

55:34

But the question that I have for you, Dr. Beeky—oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention to RJ in White Plains, New York, please give us your mailing address as well because we have a free copy of Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the

55:48

Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of the People, compliments of our friends at Crossway, and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

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who actually will be shipping that book out to you at no charge to you or to us.

56:04

But the question that we have from CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York is,

56:11

I have been blessed by hearing preachers, including yourself, from the heritage reformed congregations, and I've noticed a tradition among you where you will sing at least one hymn in the middle of a sermon.

56:26

I have never witnessed or heard this in any other context other than the preachers of the heritage reformed churches.

56:35

I was wondering why you do this, and we'll take Dr. Beeky's answer to this when we come back from our break.

56:43

And by the way, Dr. Beeky, I don't know if you know this, but I happened to be at the Matthews Orthodox Presbyterian Church in North Carolina a number of years ago, and they did that very thing, and when

56:54

I asked the pastor afterwards if he had borrowed that tradition from Dr.

57:02

Joel Beeky, he said, absolutely. Okay, I'll explain it,

57:07

I'll explain it. Okay, and so if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

57:14

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

57:19

Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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Call 866 -403 -3768. That's 866 -403 -3768.

01:10:27

Or go to batterydepot .com. That's batterydepot .com. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on Iron Shepard's Iron Radio.

01:10:43

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

01:10:51

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

01:10:59

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

01:11:04

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available, because frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

01:11:17

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

01:11:30

Their website is cvbbs .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the

01:11:41

Church, and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

01:11:48

That's cvbbs .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Shepard's Iron Radio.

01:11:55

And please mention Chris Orenson of Iron Shepard's Iron Radio when you call, and if you do so, and you also order a minimum of $50 worth of merchandise, you'll get shipping on the entire order absolutely free of charge, and you will also get a free book.

01:12:11

They have not updated me yet on the free book that they're currently offering for purchases of $50 or more, but I'm sure

01:12:19

I'll find out about that tomorrow, God willing. And just ask for the free book that they're offering and you will get it added to your purchase order of $50 or more.

01:12:29

Before I return to our guest today, Dr. Joel Arbeke of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and our discussion on Reformed preaching, we just have a couple of important announcements to make in regard to special events that are coming up right around the corner.

01:12:48

I will, God willing, once again be manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Shepard's Iron Radio at the

01:12:56

G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia. It's actually in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, at the

01:13:03

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park. That's from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th, and I believe that the registration ends today, so if you want to register,

01:13:18

I would do so quickly to make sure that they include you on the registrations. There's also a pre -conference event being held on Wednesday, January 16th, involving my friend

01:13:31

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and a panel of brothers who are going to be addressing the

01:13:38

Social Justice Warrior Movement, and also on Wednesday, January 16th, there will be an exclusively

01:13:45

Spanish -speaking edition of the G3 conference, and there is, as always, a huge lineup of very impressive speakers.

01:13:55

Let me name some of these speakers. My friend that I just mentioned, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, John Piper, Stephen J.

01:14:03

Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Beyway, nicknamed the

01:14:08

Spurgeon of Africa, pastor of Cahuatla Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and chancellor of the

01:14:13

African Christian University. If you haven't heard Conrad preach, you've got to hear him preach as soon as you can.

01:14:19

A powerful, powerful voice for the gospel of sovereign grace. Tim Challey is

01:14:24

Phil Johnson, the executive director of John MacArthur's ministry, Grace to You. Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

01:14:33

Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, the college founded by the late

01:14:40

R .C. Sproul in Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on this lineup. If you would like to join us at the

01:14:47

G3 conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

01:14:53

And then, later on in the month of January, I am, for the very first time, going to be in the

01:15:01

Mississippi. I've never been there before. I will be at the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, Manning, and other

01:15:07

Iron Triple Zion radio booth, exhibitors booth, for the Deep South Founders Conference.

01:15:14

That's from January 24th through the 26th in Laurel, Mississippi. And the speakers include

01:15:22

Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Crenshaw, Bobby, I'm sorry,

01:15:27

Jason Goodwin, and Bobby Crenshaw. And the keynote speaker, again, is

01:15:33

Dr. Conrad M. Beyway of Kabwatha Baptist Church, Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. If you would like to register for the

01:15:39

Deep South Founders Conference, go to deepsouthfounders .com, deepsouthfounders .com. Last but not least, if you love

01:15:46

Iron Triple Zion radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, you love hearing the guests and topics that we address that very often are never heard anywhere else, then please contribute, if you can, by going to irontripenzionradio .com,

01:16:01

click support, then click click to donate now. You could use your debit or credit card to donate instantly in that way, and you could also mail in a check the old -fashioned way to the address that appears on your computer screen when you click support at irontripenzionradio .com.

01:16:18

And as I try to remind you every day, please never ever ever siphon money away from the regular giving that you're accustomed to to your local church in order to give to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:16:30

Never do that. Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:16:37

Those two things are commands of God providing for your church and home. Providing for my radio show, obviously, is not a command of God.

01:16:44

But if you love the show, you don't want it to disappear, and you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can to irontripenzionradio .com,

01:16:59

click support, then click click to donate now. If you are not a member of a Bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in disobedience to God.

01:17:08

So if you need help finding one, send me an email to chrisarensen at gmail .com, and I can help you find a church near you that is faithful to the scriptures.

01:17:16

I have lists of churches all over the world, and I have already helped a number of Iron Trip and Zion Radio listeners find

01:17:22

Bible -believing churches even as far away as Perth, Australia, and in many states in the

01:17:29

United States. So just send me that email to chrisarensen at gmail .com, and we'll help you find a church.

01:17:34

Also, if you want to advertise with us, send me an email to that same address, chrisarensen at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line, and as long as whatever it is you desire to promote is compatible with what

01:17:47

I believe, you don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that is at least compatible with what we proclaim here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, then

01:17:57

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we really need the advertising dollars, as I said, to survive.

01:18:04

That's chrisarensen at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Dr.

01:18:11

Joel Beakey on our discussion on Reformed preaching. That's chrisarensen at gmail .com,

01:18:18

chrisarensen at gmail .com, and Dr. Beakey, as you may remember before the break, CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, wants to know why it is very common amongst pastors in the

01:18:28

Heritage Reformed congregation denomination to split up the sermon with at least one hymn in the middle of the sermon.

01:18:41

Yes, well the Dutch, the old Dutch tradition of preaching was that you had a two to four point sermon, and then you would have a song that was called the two passing song, the application song, and those were the days in which people could remember everything the minister said prior to the application song.

01:19:06

They'd stand up, take a break as they sing, sit down, and get ready to hear all the applications from the sermon.

01:19:15

Now because we continue the tradition of preaching, you know, 50 to 60 minutes, that's a long time for people to sit without a break, and so what we do is we, in our tradition now, we usually say we have a three -point sermon, we usually preach two points, and then sing a song for a moment, and then move to our last point.

01:19:43

So we don't just have applications after the singing anymore, but we train our students here as well to have applications throughout the entire sermon.

01:19:57

Make a point, apply it, make a point, apply it, and then if your tradition preaches longer than 45 minutes as ours does, it's a good, we found it's a good thing to have a bit of a break, sing a song that relates to the first points that you've already made in the sermon, and then continue on and preach the rest of the sermon.

01:20:20

Well thank you CJ, and make sure that you give us your full mailing address there in Lindenhurst, Long Island, because you have also won a free copy of the book we are discussing by Dr.

01:20:30

Joel Beakey today on Reformed Preaching, and the subtitle of the book is

01:20:37

Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of the People. That's Chris Arnn, and if anybody else wants to join us it's chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:20:46

chrisarnson at gmail .com if you have a question. Let's see here, we have an anonymous listener who says, one thing that troubles me about the way we conduct a worship service at the congregation where I'm a member is that they take the offering after the preacher preaches.

01:21:10

Now the reason that disturbs me is because when people should be listening to the the word that is preached and having that echoing in their heart and mind when the service is over, that train of thought is interrupted while they shuffle around to reach for their wallets and so on, and they are more primarily thinking about putting their money in the collection plate rather than what they just heard preach.

01:21:39

How do you respond to this way that I feel, and I am truly troubled by it?

01:21:48

Well, I respect your convictions, of course, and I do think that giving is an act of worship, and so you can express your feeling to the pastor or to one of your elders, and they could bring it to your session or to your consistory to see if they can change when they take the offering in the service.

01:22:14

If they decide not to change, I would just acquiesce to that and try not to be too troubled by it.

01:22:21

I think if people are really under deep impression after a sermon, reaching in and getting, in our case in our church, we put in envelopes.

01:22:32

The envelopes are in our pocket. All we do is reach in the pocket and put it in the plate, so it doesn't, personally, it doesn't distract me whatsoever from thinking about after the sermon.

01:22:41

We take two offerings in every service because we also have a Christian school, so we do one before the sermon, one after the sermon.

01:22:48

I have never been distracted by putting an offering in the offering plate, but if you feel that way, do approach your consistory and see what you can do to have that change.

01:23:02

If not, just bow under it and go on and try not to be distracted. One thing that I can say to echo the anonymous listener is that I think when, especially with visitors, especially even on top of that if they're lost, that might be something that totally robs them of their train of thought when they should be perhaps thinking about the warnings provided in the sermon and the offer of the one and only way of hope and peace and eternal life through the blood of Christ, having the money aspect at the very end after that sermon.

01:23:44

I could see that that might be a problematic thing, but of course, being Reformed, I know that people aren't saved because of the cleverness of speech or even the articulate manner by the way we proclaim the word of God, that he sovereignly saves those whom he chooses.

01:24:05

We can only plant seeds and water them and it is God that gives the increase. But even dovetailing on that,

01:24:15

Dr. Beeky, I know that we shouldn't be hyper -Calvinistic about what I just said, because we know that God is sovereign over salvation and we know that we have heard things from history, for instance, like Jonathan Edwards apparently reading

01:24:36

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God in a very unemotional and deadpan manner, and we hear about Charles Spurgeon being saved as a teenager during a blizzard when he wandered into a church for warmth, a primitive

01:24:51

Methodist church, and there was just one verse that was continually repeated,

01:24:57

I believe, by a man who was filling in for the pastor who couldn't even be there that day because of the blizzard, and there was no powerful articulation of the gospel that day, but Spurgeon, that word was planted in Spurgeon's heart and he was saved.

01:25:14

So we know that God saves whom he will and when he will, but is there not still importance about the manner with which the gospel is preached?

01:25:26

Well, yes, of course, of course. By the foolishness of preaching, God saves those that believe, so every preacher will say, you know, it's just a miracle of grace when someone gets saved under my preaching, and yet we are to preach, though with the subconsciousness as we preach that the

01:25:45

Holy Spirit alone can do it, we are to preach with energy and passion and conviction as if we, pardon the language here, but as if we could convert centers.

01:25:57

There's got to be an urgency about it, but knowing that the Holy Spirit, as Calvin said, is the second preacher in every sermon, and he takes the words that are preached and he brings them home to the heart, but we seek to be that instrument that he uses.

01:26:12

That's probably the best way of putting it, and so we're co -laborers with the

01:26:18

Holy Spirit in this work, even though he alone can affect the genuine change in the heart.

01:26:25

Well, Anonymous, if you, off the air of course, give me your full name and full mailing address, you will also receive compliments of Crossway and also compliments of our friends at cvbbs .com,

01:26:38

a free copy of Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the Preacher to the

01:26:44

People, and please always remember to give a thanks to those providing you with these free books, not only the publishers, but also cvbbs .com,

01:26:57

because we could never afford the fee for postage for the number of books that we mail out regularly, or should

01:27:04

I say that they mail out regularly, so we thank cvbbs .com from the bottom of our heart for doing that, and also, of course,

01:27:11

Crossway and every other publisher that gives us these free books. Let's see here, we have another anonymous listener who says that,

01:27:27

I have heard from even some Reformed preachers, but predominantly non -Reformed preachers, that we should not be teaching the doctrines of predestination and other complicated doctrines that are believed today exclusively by Calvinists, when we are evangelizing the lost, that we should be merely and purely and solely preaching the gospel without troubling the minds of those hearing our message with the weightier and deeper and more complicated issues.

01:28:01

I have a problem with that notion personally, because even Jesus Christ proclaimed things in regard to the doctrines of grace that were offensive to his hearers, knowing that many would turn away from him and never return to him again.

01:28:18

So what is your thought on this? Well, I think we need to remember that the greatest evangelists and the greatest preachers throughout all the ages, particularly from the

01:28:32

Reformation through the 19th century, when most genuine revivals took place in Christianity, they were

01:28:39

Reformed preachers, and they didn't hesitate to preach the doctrines of election, and they saw all these

01:28:46

Calvinistic doctrines as warm and vibrant and lively and comprehensive and encouraging to poor sinners to come to the

01:28:58

Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. It's only if you dampen down the total radical depravity of human nature and say man is not so bad and man has the ability to save himself by an act of his own will that you appreciate and think that free will preaching or Arminian preaching is more evangelistic.

01:29:23

You see, I would not call Arminian preaching evangelistic. I would call it deceiving souls.

01:29:30

And what you need to do in preaching is show people the enormity of their sins so they're thrown on the grace of God as their only hope for salvation.

01:29:39

So that they say if there were no election, I would never be saved. So this is something that is very confusing to people today, but if you look at all the great preachers in the past,

01:29:52

Charles Spurgeon, William Carey, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, who really were used for the conversion of thousands of people, they were all solid

01:30:04

Reformed Calvinists who were not afraid to bring their people the deep truths of the

01:30:10

Bible. And you mentioned to Jonathan Edwards, reading in a rather dry tone.

01:30:19

That has been questioned by recent scholars, by the way. Oh really? Yes, it doesn't mean that he was as passionate by any means as George Whitefield, he certainly wasn't.

01:30:30

But even if his reading of his sermons was somewhat subdued, you need to remember this, that when he preached, his heart was burning for the things he was saying and his word choice was so gripping that people would sit on the edge of their seats even if his style was not quite as passionate.

01:30:52

I think it's important for your listeners, Chris, to understand that one preacher will naturally be more passionate than another, but I can speak in a very calm voice and be very, very sincere, can't

01:31:05

I, as a preacher and really get to the affections of my people in a calm tone of voice that is full of meaning, full of sincerity, full of quiet earnestness.

01:31:17

And when Edwards was a bit more of a quiet preacher, but he had this gripping vocabulary and a heart that was burning for the salvation of his people,

01:31:28

God's people, well, that was a powerful combination, even if he wasn't quite as passionate as someone else.

01:31:34

So don't think that Reformed experience or preaching is just about preaching passionately. It's about preaching

01:31:39

God's truth to the hearts of your hearers. Amen. And I believe what our listener might have been referring to was

01:31:49

John chapter 6 in verse 64 through the, let's see, through 65, but there are some of you who do not believe for Jesus knew from the beginning who they were, who did not believe and who it was that would betray him.

01:32:09

And he was saying, for this reason, I have said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted him from the father.

01:32:18

And as a result of this, many of his disciples withdrew and were not walking with him anymore.

01:32:24

That is obviously something uniquely taught today by those who are Reformed in that obviously the father doesn't grant every single person the ability to come to Christ.

01:32:38

Otherwise we would all be universalists and everybody would be going to heaven and hell would be empty. Am I right? Right. So what

01:32:45

I'm saying is this, if you understand what the Bible says about you as a human being, that you deserve hell, that you're totally unworthy, you're a sinner before God, and you cannot extricate yourself from that problem because every part of you is depraved, then this is one of the most encouraging evangelistic texts in all the

01:33:05

Bible, because except that we're given to him of the right father, means that the father is willing to give this to lost hell -worthy sinners, and without that, there's no hope for me.

01:33:16

Election is the friend of sinners, not the enemy of sinners. Amen. Thank you

01:33:22

Anonymous, and you also need to give me, if you would like a free copy of Reformed Preaching, give me your full name and mailing address off the air of course, and we will have cvbbs .com

01:33:34

ship that book out to you. We're going to go to our final break right now. It's going to be much shorter than the last one, and if you do have a question that you would like to ask of Dr.

01:33:45

Beakey before we go off the air, I would strongly urge you to send in that question now before we run out of time.

01:33:52

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away,

01:33:57

God willing, we will be right back with Dr. Joel Beakey and our discussion on Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the heart of the preacher to the heart of the people.

01:34:09

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

01:34:18

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

01:34:26

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

01:34:42

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

01:34:55

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

01:35:03

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

01:35:09

Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

01:35:15

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the

01:35:20

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect

01:35:26

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

01:35:34

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

01:35:40

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

01:35:53

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

01:35:59

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

01:36:06

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

01:36:12

Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org. That's providencebaptistchurchma .org.

01:36:20

Or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:36:26

Got to tell you, for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

01:36:34

Iron. Criticizing. Iron. I think that's what it's called.

01:36:40

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace To You, inviting everybody to come to the

01:36:46

G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is.

01:36:52

It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

01:36:58

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

01:37:04

Tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

01:37:10

And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

01:37:23

g3conference .com. Linbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:37:30

Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

01:37:37

Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:37:43

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:37:50

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

01:37:56

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:38:03

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

01:38:10

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org. That's linbrookbaptist .org. Hello, I'm Dr.

01:38:17

Gary Kimbrell, Senior Pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. And I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join

01:38:27

Chris and me at the Deep South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th, through Saturday, January 26th, here in Laurel.

01:38:35

If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be disappointed.

01:38:42

Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia, Dr.

01:38:53

Conrad Mbewe, who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa. And I, for one, believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad.

01:39:04

For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com. That's deepsouthfounders .com.

01:39:11

I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

01:39:18

January 24th through January 26th. Thank you. My name is

01:39:24

Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

01:39:30

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:39:36

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

01:39:42

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

01:39:49

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

01:39:57

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:40:03

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:40:13

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:40:20

.nyc. Have a great day. Come and learn more about God's Word.

01:40:58

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples, singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

01:41:09

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington, and easily accessible, scores of notable

01:41:18

Christian groups frequently plan conferences at Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus Crusade, and the

01:41:28

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

01:41:37

hcbible .org. Call 609 -494 -5689.

01:41:43

609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

01:42:12

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

01:42:17

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

01:42:24

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

01:42:31

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous

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Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan. All his work is done by hand, from the cutting, to the pleating of corners, to the perimeter stitching.

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Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors, like the turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my

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French tannery used to rebind a Reformation Study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

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Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications, and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

01:43:24

For more details on Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

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01:45:10

This is Chris Arnzen, and this is the last segment of our interview today with Dr. Joel R. Beeke, the president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

01:45:21

We are discussing Dr. Beeke's book, Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the

01:45:26

Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of the People. And our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

01:45:34

chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:45:41

USA. Before I go to one of our listener questions, Dr. Beeke, I wanted to have you clarify something that you said and perhaps you can repeat it in exactly the way you said it.

01:45:53

But there may be some listening who are highly offended by the fact that you said that Arminian preaching is not preaching, and perhaps you could give us the exact way you phrased it.

01:46:03

But would you not distinguish what you said by saying that there are

01:46:15

Arminian preachers who have preached powerfully the true gospel in an excellent way because their sermon was not uniquely

01:46:24

Arminian, even if it was an unconscious thing that happened? Obviously, if a sermon is specifically containing something that is uniquely

01:46:36

Arminian in its theology and emphasis, you might have a false sermon or at least a very flawed one.

01:46:44

But do not Arminians, by the grace of God, preach the true gospel very often, even if it is contradicting unconsciously their own theology?

01:46:56

Well, yeah, thanks for bringing it up. I didn't even realize this, that Arminian preaching is not preaching.

01:47:02

I must have said that, but what I meant to say is you're not preaching the full gospel when you're preaching in an

01:47:10

Arminian way, because the point I'm trying to make, Chris, is that today there are people out there who actually think that Arminian preaching is more evangelistic than Reformed preaching.

01:47:23

And what I'm saying to you is that the Reformed preaching, when you preach to the whole man, the whole council of God, is far more evangelistic than Arminian preaching, because in Arminian preaching, your salvation depends at least some part upon you acting in your own strength by your will.

01:47:47

And God is, as it were, waiting for you to respond, whereas in Reformed preaching,

01:47:53

God works on the will, and you are saved by free and sovereign grace. And that's what gives hope, because once you realize who you are, there really isn't much hope in telling people that they must do something in order to be saved.

01:48:10

God has to do it, but He bends the will so that we then will to receive

01:48:16

Him. Yes, and you may have heard this quote, and I believe it may have originated with J .I.

01:48:25

Packer, but I'm not sure if he was borrowing somebody else's thought or if the thought originated with him.

01:48:33

And of course, I'm paraphrasing because I don't have it right in front of me, but Dr. Packer said that all men are

01:48:39

Calvinists on their knees when they pray. And in like way, when an

01:48:46

Arminian man is opening up the God -breathed truths of the Scripture and he is proclaiming them as they are taught, he is going to be proclaiming a true message even if he is not aware that what he is preaching is contradicting his theology on paper.

01:49:06

Well, sure, a good example is John Wesley. I mean, he's got some beautiful sermons, but still he was an

01:49:12

Arminian preacher. But when he preached about the will of man being exercised in preaching, he was far off the mark.

01:49:21

So that's all I meant to say about my comment. Right, and even the prince of preachers,

01:49:26

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, had invited to his pulpit D .L. Moody, and he may have even invited other

01:49:32

Arminian preachers that I am unaware of. But obviously Charles Spurgeon thought highly enough of Brother Moody's abilities behind the pulpit that he would actually open up that pulpit to him.

01:49:50

Right, and there's different liberties there, but I need to be honest, I would not do that.

01:49:56

I understand, and I know many Reformed preachers that would share your view, and perhaps even most, and vice versa.

01:50:04

I know many Arminian preachers that would never allow a Calvinist to ascend into their pulpit.

01:50:10

Right, right. One thing I wanted to say before we were out of time here,

01:50:16

Chris, my manager brought me a slip of paper and said that I wasn't aware that the special was still on.

01:50:22

We have a special on this book of Reformed preaching. It's a $40 book. You can get one copy for $20, which is a wholesale price, really.

01:50:32

But we also, you can go online at heritagebooks .org, and we're selling three for $50, six for $95, and 12 for $180.

01:50:41

So those are really special prices, and it'd be good if your listeners could get a copy for their pastor, for elders, deacons, for teachers in their church.

01:50:53

You know, get three, six copies, and keep one for yourself. You need to know how, lay people also need to know how preachers should be preaching, and spread the book around hopefully would be a great thing to do.

01:51:06

Amen. We have a first -time questioner, Randy, in Nashville, North Carolina.

01:51:13

I didn't even know there was a Nashville in North Carolina. I'm only familiar with the one in Tennessee. And Randy says,

01:51:21

We have witnessed a resurgence in the doctrines of grace in this generation. When I talk with pastors of all kinds, many of the men would consider themselves reformed.

01:51:32

But this is compartmentalized adherence in a couple of ways.

01:51:38

First, men tell me they are personally reformed, but their church is not. They are personally reformed, but they don't preach those truths.

01:51:46

Second, men express adherence and appreciation for the five points of Calvinism, but they have no appreciation for, and are often hostile towards, the other elements of reformed life.

01:51:59

So that worship, corporate prayer, the Lord's Day, and the use of the law in the believer's life are viewed as totally separate and unrelated things.

01:52:09

Is this a historical aberration? Are there any similar parallels in church history?

01:52:18

First of all, the proposition the questioner is stating, I would agree with 100%.

01:52:25

And people think they're reformed in Calvinism once they embrace the major tenets of soteriological

01:52:32

Calvinism, that is, the doctrine of salvation. But there's so much more to the reformed faith.

01:52:39

I wrote a book for R .C. Sproul, published by Reformation Trust, called Living for the

01:52:44

Glory of God, An Introduction to Calvinism. I tried to look at 28 areas to show that Calvinism is a comprehensive, world -wide view, a way of interpreting the scriptures that is the most consistent way of interpreting the scriptures,

01:52:58

I believe, in a comprehensive way for all of life. That includes, for example, things like worship.

01:53:06

And often people who embrace a kind of Calvinistic soteriology don't embrace reformed worship.

01:53:17

Or they don't embrace a reformed view of opposing worldliness in their lives.

01:53:26

And so it's one thing to say, I believe in the doctrines of grace with regard to salvation.

01:53:32

It's another thing to have that spread to impact my entire life so that I hate worldliness and love godliness and that my walk of life displays that.

01:53:45

And also so that I love worship that is god -glorifying, doesn't cater to the whims and wishes of this world.

01:53:54

And so those are two of my areas of greatest concern, by the way, about the new embrace of Calvinism.

01:54:00

I'm very thrilled by that on one side, but on the other, I'm hoping that it will spread to a full -orbed view of the reformed faith and that the whole of what the

01:54:12

Bible teaches will become dear to these dear people who have had their eyes open to the doctrines of salvation.

01:54:19

Amen. And don't you think that we have to be patient with our brethren?

01:54:24

Because the doctrines of grace are spreading into denominations and fellowships and brotherhoods and congregations from backgrounds where these teachings were totally absent and where these teachings were foreign to these particular groups for centuries or decades.

01:54:46

And you have, for instance, I know Pentecostal congregations that have discovered the doctrines of sovereign grace and they are beginning to preach and teach these things.

01:54:58

And of course, there is not always an 180 -degree reversal in everything that is done, because these things sometimes take time, even through the guidance of the

01:55:10

Holy Spirit, to fully reform a congregation. Yes, and that's one of the major points of my book, that when we really preach to the whole man, then the whole man of the preacher must be impacted by his preaching as well.

01:55:25

So a big part of my book, when I talk about preaching reformed today, means that the preacher himself has to be a holy man of God.

01:55:35

And I try to educate in these areas. I've got to be a wrestler in prayer with God.

01:55:42

I've got to be burdened to bring the message of God to the people of God. I've got to have integrity and sincerity.

01:55:49

I can't be living a worldly life. And I think the more that people really go back to the old literature and to the

01:55:56

Bible itself, of course, the more they will realize that Calvinism is so, so, so much more than just the so -called five points.

01:56:06

And so the whole movement, not only in America, but even much more so in Latin America, in Colombia and Argentina now, and Chile and Bolivia, and of course, it's been going on for a while in Brazil, and also in Africa, in China.

01:56:24

All of these movements are very young and need good literature, need good preaching.

01:56:32

And so we do need to be patient. On the other hand, it's urgent to have ministers grasp the whole picture of the reformed faith and preach these things faithfully so that people really do come to realize that this is a comprehensive world life view.

01:56:51

We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who asks, what do you do if there is no reformed congregation faithfully preaching these truths in your area?

01:57:06

Yes, that's a tough, tough question. My personal opinion is that normally you would go to that church in your area, even if you have to drive a bit, that would be the closest to expressing the reformed faith biblically.

01:57:29

And then buttress that with going on sermonaudio .com throughout the week, listen to a couple of good sermons in a week that are thoroughly reformed, and read good literature and that type of thing.

01:57:43

I do think it's important to be in the house of God on a regular basis. But if you're in an area where it's just all

01:57:51

Arminian or all liberalism or all health and wealth gospel and there's nothing even remotely reformed, there is a possibility that you should ask yourself, should

01:58:04

I move and go to an area where there is a church I can with good conscience attend? If that is not possible, you know, all these things are not possible, there's nothing, your area is entirely barren, then at that point of extremity

01:58:19

I would say, well, then it's better to just join one of the churches that livestreams until you can possibly move or find or plant a church in the area or something like that.

01:58:31

But that'd be a last recourse. Well, Mary, we know that you have a son who's a pastor in the

01:58:39

United States, and we are giving the last copy of the book, Reformed Preaching, to him.

01:58:45

Thank you very much for the question. And now I'd like to make sure that you give our listeners,

01:58:51

Dr. Beeke, all of the contact information they need to get a hold of you, and of course give us the website again for Reformation Heritage Books.

01:59:04

Right, right. Heritagebooks .org is the best place to get this book,

01:59:11

Reformed Preaching, Proclaiming God's Word from the Heart of the Preacher to the Heart of His People, because I think we give the steepest discount.

01:59:20

We're really earnest about getting this book out. And again, you can get three copies for $50, six for $95, and 12 for $180, and give it out to other people.

01:59:32

So heritagebooks .org, and you can contact me personally at joel .beeke

01:59:39

at prts .edu. Well, thank you so much,

01:59:45

Dr. Beeke, for being on our program today. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater