Standing With The Navy SEALs

Non-rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat.

I want to sink it.

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie? Or are you going to bite?

We're being delusional. Yeah, I love to get delusional.

Delusional is OK in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly OK.

It doesn't really hurt.

It's the hung up on me.

Shoot! What? What? What?

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives.

Right.

Don't go into the world and make homies.

Right.

Disciples.

I got a bit of a jiggle, Nick. That's a joke, pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

In the day of adversity, your strength is small. Rescue those who are being taken away to death. Hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. You say, behold, we did not know this. Does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?

Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it? And will he not repay men according to his work? Proverbs 24, 10 through 12. What is up, everyone? How's it going? Joy?

Good. Hello.

Introducing the Navy SEALs Story and the Stand With Warriors Effort

It's just Joy and I today and a special guest who I'll introduce in a minute. This is a very special episode. Actually, Pastor Jeff's on his way to Pennsylvania right now for our rally to end abortion in Harrisburg, which is on Saturday.

We've been advertising that. So hopefully you guys, if you're in the area, got that info and you can come help support that. So it's just Joy and I today and my new friend, Davis, who I'll bring on in a minute.

So if you didn't see what's been going on here, the last week has been absolutely insane with some opportunities that God's blessed us with an opportunity to help our brothers and sisters who are serving in the military.

Specifically, this started with some brothers that are Navy SEALs. And I'm going to keep it as vanilla as possible and omit names and locations because those that we're helping at the moment want to remain anonymous.

But the point is that they're being forced to take Pokey McPokerson or risk being ejected from the military, or at least losing their rating and stuff. And as we're finding out, this is pretty widespread.

And so it's been crazy this week. We've been getting emails and messages like crazy. But all that to say, just to kick the show off, I'm going to play a clip here from an interview on Tucker Carlson this week with our friend Davis here.

And then I'm going to bring him in. So we'll just start the show off with this interview. It's a couple of minutes. And then we'll get right into it. So go ahead, Matt, and start that video.

Davis Younts on the Vaccine Mandate, Religious Liberty, and Military Readiness

You'll notice, by the way, in the case of the Navy SEALs and more broadly, the US military, that none of the members of Congress who claim to care so much about the military, they talk about all the time, defense hawks like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and so many others, none of these people have said a single word about any of this.

They have not risen to defend these guys because they don't care. So it's left to men like Davis Yance to fight for these Navy SEALs. Yance is an Air Force Reserve officer. He's a lawyer. He's representing a number of the Navy SEALs in question.

He joins us tonight. Davis, thanks so much for coming on tonight. So did we misstate any of that? You have hundreds, apparently, of Navy SEALs who will leave a force that's only about 2 ,500 men very soon over these COVID vaccine mandates, correct?

That's absolutely right. And I want to say thank you on behalf of my clients for bringing this to the attention of the American people. We need their help. My clients are Christian men. They're men of faith.

Their faith informs every decision that they make. And really what they need is more time. The way this is being rolled out to my clients and many other members in the military is arbitrary. They're being given these really tight deadlines.

They just don't have time to explore all the options and the rights. And the worst of it is they're being told, you're going to go into a non-deployable status if you don't do this. And I think, and my clients strongly believe that is going to impact military readiness.

I don't think it should surprise any of us that the Navy SEALs are first on the list to be targeted. It's an all-male force. I don't know anything about their voting records or even if they vote, but they're exactly the kind of people if you were planning to control the military for political purposes, you would want gone.

Do they feel singled out? I know this is military-wide, but it seems like they're being pressed especially hard, especially early.

I think that's accurate. I think my clients in particular, some of my clients are Navy SEALs. They are a very small part of a much larger group of Navy SEALs that feel that way. I also have clients that are fighter pilots that feel like they've been forced into the same situation.

These, to my clients, these are arbitrary deadlines. They don't make sense, and they're being given conflicting guidance across the military. And these men are not alone. My clients want the American people to know there are thousands of military members across the formation that feel the same way.

And my clients as Christian men, informed by their faith, love their neighbor. They dedicate their lives. They sacrifice their lives to protect innocent life. That's what they're about. And they want this story brought to attention.

They want help for the rest of the military. This isn't about them. They're quiet professionals, Tucker. That's what they do. My clients don't wanna be famous. They don't wanna have books written about them do their job and serve this country.

And they're willing to step out in front because of all the other military members that are out there that don't have a platform like this.

This has nothing to do with medicine or science or COVID. And anyone who says otherwise is a moron or a liar. This is about changing the nature of the force, period. And I hope that you can stop it. And I hope that members of Congress wake up immediately and join you in that.

Davis Yance, appreciate it.

Thank you.

All right, Davis, what's up, brother?

Hey, how are you?

Good, man. It's been busy, huh?

Absolutely. We have been overwhelmed with the number of calls and emails, people wanting to help in any way they can, volunteers, attorneys and paralegals wanting to volunteer to help us out, and military members all over the world reaching out, hundreds and hundreds reaching out for help.

Amazing. So why don't you just take a couple minutes, tell everyone who you are, what you're up to and your involvement in this. And then I'm gonna tell the story of how all of this came together, which is completely God.

Great. Yeah, so my background is active duty Air Force. I went to Liberty University for undergrad, went to law school. 9 -11 happened when I was in law school. And that kind of solidified my determination to serve in the military in some capacity.

So I started out in the Air Force as a JAG. I did that on active duty for 11 years. Deployed, did a lot of fun things. Got to teach at the Air Force JAG school where I was chief of the military justice division.

And I still serve in the Air Force reserves. I have 19 years of service in. And all I do on my civilian side, I have my own law firm now and I represent military members primarily. And that can be all over the world.

And that's how my name came up to help these Navy SEALs and our clients out that we're talking about today.

How the Navy SEAL Story Came Together

Yeah, right on, man. So I've known Davis, I guess a week, what did we meet? Friday, a week ago, Friday, yeah. So we've joined each other just under a week and it's been a whirlwind, whirlwind. So yeah, I just real quick, I'll tell a brief story how this kind of came together.

But basically I had a friend that's a pastor contact me and beginning of July kind of made us aware of some of this stuff that was going on. I wasn't really sure how it was going to shake out. And then I think Pastor Jeff actually talked to that pastor and one of these SEALs while I was on my sabbatical.

So like late July or something like that. And then when we were in Nashville, we actually got a chance to sit down with them. So that was just two weeks ago. We sat down with them, got to talk and figure out what's going on.

And we were like

Two weeks ago already, huh?

Yeah, already. We were like, hey, we gotta do something. So we literally in a week, we threw together a meeting with these guys. Again, and I won't disclose the location, but it happened very quickly.

And I'll say involved a lot of unnecessary travel for Pastor Jeff to get to one location. But no direct flights, it just makes it impossible. But we were able to throw it together and just God's been driving this situation completely where we contacted some of our friends that have been a part of this, Zach Lautenschlager and Bradley Pierce.

And then Bradley's the one that was like, hey, actually I know a JAG lawyer I've been working with on some other cases. His name's Davis. And I asked him if he'd be interested in participating. And it just so happened that Davis was already gonna be in the location where we were planning on meeting.

And so we met last week, had an amazing whole day meeting. And I gotta give credit to Davis because he like threw together this ridiculous agenda and like paperwork where I was like, holy smokes, how did you do that so quickly?

It was incredible. So yeah, I mean, I'm excited, I'm stoked. It's a crazy time we're in. It's a crazy situation. But like just God's hands are all over this thing and it's exciting and thrilling, but also terrifying at the same time.

Absolutely.

So we actually, I mean, this is part of what we did is we've actually have started or in the process of starting a 501c3 nonprofit called Stand With Warriors. So if you go, if you saw the video we just played that was on there, so it's standwithwarriors .org.

So if you're watching and you're in the military, you're in the same boat, like you can go there right now and ask for help. So Davis was on Tucker on Monday, Pastor Jeff was on John Solomon's podcast Monday morning and we put up the website that day.

And keep in mind, this is three days after we met. Put the website up and the next morning, we had 100 emails and it's just growing like crazy.

So I got emails to us to apologize to.

Oh, really? Just send them to that website then.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, and it's just been crazy. So praise God. So Davis, I'll let you get into kind of the nitty gritty details on what's going on, because you do a much better job of explaining it than I do.

Sure, yeah, so there's a lot going on, but the big thing that I think helps understand this is the military has rolled out arbitrary deadlines for the vaccine mandate. What does that mean? What are we talking about?

There is a lot of confusion in the military about what's going on and why the deadlines are the way they are. So my clients, and that's how I'm gonna speak about this. I'm gonna talk about my clients and what they're experiencing particularly.

But my clients have been asking for months for guidance from the Navy, from their chain of command, from leadership on what's going on, will there be a mandate and how to apply for medical and religious accommodations, right?

And that's really the heart of this for my clients, for the Navy SEALs and the fighter pilots that I'm representing, it's about their Christian faith. But anyway, they've been asking for guidance for month after month.

And what my clients have experienced is there's been no clear guidance. There's been, it's been hold fire, wait, wait, wait, wait till we get guidance. And then all of a sudden, without a warno, our clients started getting Navy page 13s, which is essentially a counseling statement.

It can be adverse, it doesn't have to be. It said they had a very limited window to respond. And they had to decide within less than two weeks, whether or not they were going to receive, they were gonna ask for an exemption, they were gonna take the vaccine, but they were told, and this is happening across the military.

I'm talking to Marine Corps fighter pilots, Army commanders, Air Force fighter pilots that are being told, if you ask for an exemption, whether it's medical or religious, you will lose the ability to deploy.

And that likely means you will lose your position as a SEAL or as a pilot. And essentially they're being told you're on your way out of the military. And there's a lot more, there's a lot more background we've learned, but that's kind of the entry point is our biggest concern right now for our guys is they've been given arbitrary deadlines, short notice, and they need more time.

They need more time to figure out what they're going to do to draft meaningful, powerful religious accommodations that comply with the law and to understand whether or not these orders they're getting are even lawful.

So that's what I'm looking at for my clients. That's what we're working on, right?

Yep. That's, thank you. I was gonna bring up the big question is, cause I just saw a comment. Someone said this doesn't mess with their religion and all that. But the question is, right now we're asking is, is this a lawful order?

So can you maybe explain to people, cause you had to explain that to us last week. So explain to people that don't understand what that means.

Lawful Orders, Religious Accommodation, and the Military Justice Process

Right, so I don't represent any clients yet and I'm not saying that this is or is not a lawful order. The problem is that's a complicated question, especially when we start talking about vaccines, because we're talking about the Religious Freedom Restoration Act plays a large part in this.

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act plays a large part in this. And so there's really specific standards that my clients have to work through and try to determine whether or not they should apply for religious accommodation, whether or not they're qualified, whether or not this order is even lawful in the first place.

So again, my clients are asking me to explore that issue, do the research. There's a couple of different things to think about. In order for an order to be lawful, it has to be for military purpose, essentially a military necessity.

That's part of it.

There's a lot of detail in case law we don't have to go into,.

But that's part of it.

Is it related to military service? Is it tied to a military necessity to the military mission? So for a long time, our courts have held military members accountable for obeying unlawful orders. In other words, a military member, an individual military member like our clients, my clients is given an order and that's not a lawful order.

They're expected and they're trained to ask questions, to push back and say, can you repeat that order? Can you clarify that order? I have concerns about the lawfulness of that order that I wanna explain before we execute the order because in military case law, if you're sitting in court martial, obeying a lawful order essentially looks like self-defense, right?

Like you might think of it like self-defense. It's essentially an affirmative defense. I followed that order because, you know, excuse me, I didn't follow that order because I believed it was unlawful, right?

And there was a reason for it. So that's what we're looking at. There's a lot of research that goes into that. And again, it's hard to capture how difficult it is for individual military members who are not being given clear guidance.

Our clients are not being given clear guidance. Our clients are not being given access to military attorneys that represent them. I have clients that are being told, well, you can choose to follow the order or not.

The military attorneys that work for the military think this is a lawful order. So disobey it. And if you are in trouble, you're facing court martial or something else, then we'll provide a lawyer for you.

So that's about where we're at.

Well, I was just gonna ask, what does being disobedient in this way kind of look like? What are some of the penalties?

Good question.

Like what happens? Because a lot of people are like, well, I'm losing my job. Is it kind of just a matter of that or is there more?

Wow, yeah.

So there's like layers. So to keep it simple, I would say first, critically, our clients, these Navy SEALs, these fighter pilots are being told, regardless of the lawfulness of the order or not, if you ask for an exemption, if you exercise your legal right to ask for a medical or religious accommodation, you're likely going to lose your job.

When we say that, I mean, you're not gonna be able to fly a plane anymore. You won't be deployable. Navy SEALs are being told they'll be removed from their position. So that's just step one. That's if you, not even if you decide, hey, I'm gonna challenge the lawfulness of this order, that's only from a perspective of if I ask for something I'm entitled to legally, which is an accommodation, what's going to happen to my career?

So that's one phase. As we move forward, if there are individual military members, if any of our clients decide, hey, we wanna challenge the lawfulness of the order, the disadvantage for military members is the military will take adverse action and then you raise the lawfulness of the order as self-defense, essentially.

So that's the tough decision my clients have to make. So what are the penalties? I think a lot of military members are going to be dealing with two things. One is they'll get some sort of adverse military action.

That could be punishment pursuant to what the military cars, Article 15. Think of that in terms of extra duties, having paying fines, having your rank reduced, so being lowered in military rank or being restricted to the limits of the military installation.

Those are the things that can come from an Article 15. They call it nonjudicial punishment. In addition to that, a lot of my clients are being told if they go down that route, then they will be separated from the military.

And there's no clear guidance from the military yet what that looks like. Many, many clients are facing the possibility of what's called an under other than honorable conditions discharge, an OTH. That means they're essentially standing to lose all their VA benefits.

So potentially VA disability, VA medical care, they're losing the GI bill, they're even losing a VA home loan if I have a client that gets out of the military with an OTH. All of those things are a possibility.

Worst case scenario, if we want to talk worst case scenario, my clients are looking at the possibility of court-martial. That's a possibility and that's happened in the past for similar issues. So there is a possibility that some people who choose not to follow this order in the military will be facing court-martial.

And then you're talking about the potential of jail time as well as being separated with a dishonorable discharge.

Thank you, brother, for clarifying that. I'm just reading some of the comments here. I mean, someone said, stick to the gospel apology. And it's like, well, this actually is a gospel issue, which we're gonna get to.

So just sit tight, friend. We'll get to that in a second. But before we get there, I wanted you to speak about military readiness because this is huge. This is ginormous. And I wanna make sure this isn't overlooked.

You know, if we have hundreds of SEALs, I can say that confidently, hundreds of SEALs saying, I'm not getting poked. And that's just the SEALs. But I think what we're discovering is it seems to be a pretty standard percentage military wide.

So 20 to 30 say of the military saying, I'm not gonna do this. You know, that affects National Guard, that affects Army, Marine, like everybody. And so that leaves our nation in a really bad spot if the military is saying, okay, well, we'll just go on without you.

If you're missing 30 of our forces, that's significant. So Davis, I don't wanna miss that. So I wanna hear your take on that.

Military Readiness and the Scale of the Resistance

Yeah, so I think that's a huge issue. And I will tell you, that's one of the primary concerns my clients have consistently raised to me. And part of the reason why my clients and the guys that you met as well as others even came to us in the first place.

These guys are sincerely worried about the impact that these arbitrary deadlines and this rollout of the deadlines is having on the military. So I don't wanna sensationalize anything, but I can tell you on behalf of my clients, I've talked to a military defense attorney who has a connection to the California National Guard.

The latest number he's heard is there are over 500 that are potentially in the queue to be administratively separated from the California National Guard. Why do I throw out that number? In order to do that, if that number's accurate, the California National Guard would have to hold administrative separation boards.

On average, if we're talking Army, Air Force takes longer to do them, right? We talk about differences in service, but we're talking Army, we're talking about a full day typically for an administrative separation board for a military member.

So start to do the math, and if that number were accurate just in California, that would be 500 days that it would take to do the separation boards for those military members. So you're talking JAGS, you're talking three officers or senior enlisted personnel for each board.

You have to have members that are not conflicted. So you're talking about a huge expense and a huge effort just to do those administrative separation boards. That's just in California. I've heard similar numbers out of Michigan.

I've heard similar numbers out of Pennsylvania. So again, I don't want to sensationalize it, but if we start to look across the formation, across active Guard and Reserve, what my clients have been hearing, what my clients are telling me, what I'm hearing from other attorneys that are representing clients is that is a shared concern.

Their clients are telling them this will impact readiness based just on sheer numbers. And I will agree what I'm seeing from my clients is a 20, 25 number as of yesterday is what I'm hearing.

Yeah, that's incredible. And I will say one more thing too, because as someone said, stop promoting anti-vaccine stuff. Like we've never ever said that we're anti-vaccine. We've intentionally stayed away from this conversation.

I get people honestly all the time that are like want us to preach anti-vaccine because of aborted fetal cells. And we've intentionally stayed away from that. This isn't an anti-vaccine thing. This is an anti-tyranny thing.

This is the government telling you what you have to do with your body. This is the government stepping outside of their sphere, their God ordained sphere of government, outside of their role of Romans 13 to be the avenger of evildoers and to protect the good.

This is tyranny. That's all that this is. And this is where it brings it to the gospel issue. These men that we met with last week, I can tell you were such an incredible blessing and encouragement to me.

I'm sure Davis can echo that as well. These are not just Navy SEALs that we're talking with. These are men that are faithful Christians that love Christ, that love the gospel. And they're willing to stand on those principles, those biblical principles first.

They swore an oath to the constitution and they're willing to stand up for that, even if that means losing their job. And a number of them, man, I just can't tell you how blessed we were. A number of them were like, I'm gonna be martyred.

My job, I'm gonna be martyred as a SEAL. Like, I don't care. Because it's bigger than me. It's bigger than my job. It's bigger than the trident. This is about principles. This is about the constitution.

This is about fighting tyranny. And it was such a blessing. And as we're saying, this is much bigger than we even realized initially and it's continuing to grow. And I would be remiss if I didn't sit here today and say that this is about the gospel and about Christ.

And these men love Jesus dearly and they want that to be forefront. And Davis said that on Tucker. I know he was on some other interviews where they cut that out, but it's very important to us. It's very important to the men, which by the way, SEALs by nature are not in the public eye.

They intentionally stay out of the public. They don't want their names and their faces out there because that's not how they operate. So they all unanimously said that Pastor Jeff was the spokesman. So if it's not coming from Pastor Jeff or Apologia or Davis, like it's, don't believe it because we're speaking for them.

And that was what was most important to them, that they want everyone to know that this is about the gospel.

Right.

And I will say this on the, just to back up a little, if I can to touch on the issue of anti-vax and all of that. I can tell you, I'm not representing a single client that is anti-vax as a political position or anything else.

That's not where they're coming from on this. One issue that I think finally gaining traction and has people asking questions is, in the past for vaccines, the military has always recognized, or at least for a long time has recognized in written guidance and regulations and military instructions, that natural immunity is a reason to exempt someone from a vaccine.

In other words, if you had a military physician that tested you, you had the positive serology, and so you had immunity to a virus or to a disease, then that military would say, hey, we'll recognize that as a reason not to have to get the vaccine.

In writing, I've seen it. You've seen it, brother. In writing, what's coming out, what is being handed to my clients are orders and guidance that says serology natural immunity is not being recognized for this vaccine.

Whether you have natural immunity or not, that is not a factor for my clients in whether or not they're able to continue to do their job and deploy and whether or not they have to get the vaccine. So, I mean, I just, I think that's a crucial point because I think it's fair to ask what is different about this vaccine?

Why, I think my clients have a right to ask that question when we talk about something, there's no long-term safety studies on, no five to 10 year studies because it's new, right? Just by virtue of the fact that it's new, I think it's reasonable for them to ask questions and ask for time to work through these issues.

And again, my clients are not anti-vaccine and as agenda, but they do wanna have their question answered and they wanna have time to answer those questions.

And ask them. Oh, we lost you. We lost your audio there, Davis.

Uh-oh.

Oh, there you are. You're back, we're back.

Okay, all right.

Go ahead.

Yeah, and so the last point I'll make on that, if you can hear me, I hope I was able to make that last point well, but the other thing I will say is this, my clients have a right to ask from a military readiness perspective.

If my clients are being told, the reason you have to get this vaccine is because of health and safety risk to the military, to you and to other military members. And if my clients are being told, you're not gonna be able to deploy or do your job if you don't get the vaccine, then I think it's right and reasonable for me to ask the question on behalf of my clients.

But if they have natural immunity and if I'm not a doctor, I'm not a virologist, but if the studies that are coming out that are showing even from the NIH and the CDC that natural immunity is very effective, perhaps more effective than the vaccine itself, why isn't that being recognized as a medical exemption in this case?

And what is the impact on readiness? What's the negative impact on readiness if my clients have something that protects them better than the vaccine itself? That's a concern that my clients have. And I think it's a reasonable question to ask.

Yeah, absolutely. And, oh, I thought I was gonna get better. So along those lines, cause I don't wanna lose this point, cause I saw someone in the comments said that there's been few side effects, which is just absolutely false, absolutely false.

You know, a number of these guys have already had it. Like you said, Davis, a number of them have already had it. They already have the natural immunity. And I think I saw an interview today and don't quote me on this, cause I don't wanna get it wrong, but if I remember correctly, they said that 20 SEALs essentially over the last year and a half had died with COVID.

And I'm gonna say with COVID, not because of, and since the vaccines come on, I think I saw that like 80 of them already have adverse effects. You know, and these are guys like, these are like our top warriors, not just like right now, but like of all time, like ever, you know, like these are the most healthiest dudes you could ever have in your entire, like in the history of the world.

Yeah, and they were fine. And now all of a sudden they're having all these adverse effects. And so like, there is, it is reasonable to say, hey, I already had it. This vaccine is actually gonna make it worse for me.

It's gonna cause me to have, you know, issues where I'm not gonna be able to do my job. And I think, like you said, Davis, it's absolutely reasonable to ask for that. And it's, and this is where like, it's tyrannical for these guys to just say, top down to say, I don't care.

You're getting it regardless, you know. So you were gonna say something.

Well, yeah, I just think that's a, I know you said you don't wanna sensationalize anything, but it is just seems so crazy that basically it's just an issue of like, well, we're giving you a command. We don't care if it's lawful or not.

And just keeping in mind what the military does and its function and it's the privileges that you have you know, it just, the power that you have, sort of the authority that the military has. It should be pretty alarming that this particular population would not wonder, they would not be concerned if it's lawful or not.

And if anything, that should be what we want. And our military is a military that is first and foremost concerned about following lawful commands and certainly concerned about not following unlawful commands.

Exactly.

Cause it's different. They're not totally, military personnel are not like civilians. And I don't know, maybe people think it's kind of the same, but like a command is something that you're supposed to do and it's not like a mandate.

So would you, could you explain maybe some of the differences of just what's expected of someone in the military who's given a command? Like you said, that it's kind of a process to not obey a command.

What Military Obedience Means and Why Lawfulness Still Matters

Yeah, so, and I think that's fair to ask. And I think it's going to be a common question.

People have, right?

You're in the military, if you're told to jump, your only response is supposed to be, how high, sir?

How high?

Right.

And I think that's reasonable. However, we also have to recognize that our military and my clients recognize this is unique in world history.

Right?

So my clients are students of the constitution. They're students of history. Unique in history is the fact that our military members swear an oath to support and defend the constitution. And why does that matter?

Why does that matter to my clients? Look at history. Normally a military oath was to swear fidelity or allegiance to an emperor, to a particular political leader, right? Not to, or even a state as a sort of entity, right?

As an entity all to itself, rather than to law, right? Law based on the constitution. And so my clients look at that and understand that and they recognize that principle. So that oath is, you're swearing an oath to support and defend the constitution.

So it is expected under the law for military members to be considering the lawfulness of orders as they execute their job. And to be clear, when we're talking about my clients that are fighter pilots, that are Navy SEALs, they're asked to make decisions like that in the fight, in the battle, they're given orders.

And if they have concerns that an order to, you know, fire weapons, go weapons hot, drop a bomb is going to impact or endanger civilians or there's an error in transmission or something else, they're trained, my clients are trained every day to be prepared to say, stand by, can you repeat that order?