Matt Slick Live: January 22, 2025

It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live.

For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Opening Remarks on the Show, Technical Problems, and a Recent Discussion About the Deity of Christ

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, the number is 877 -207 -2276. You can also email me a comment or a question.

Just do that by sending your email to info at karm .org, and it's c-a-r-m dot o-r-g, and put the subject line, radio comment, radio question, either one of those, and we can get to them.

All right.

Now, we're having trouble on Club Deck. My computer didn't update, and I can't get it to work, so we're not feeding into Club Deck, or Club House, I should say, at least not right now. I even did some tech stuff, re-editing the registry on Windows, and it didn't work.

I tried some stuff, and it can't get to work. But you know, that's all right. We'll work on that. But that's okay. Now, something interesting happened, a couple things to talk about. Yesterday after the show, I spent another three hours defending the deity of Christ and indirectly the doctrine of the Trinity.

I had a really good discussion for three hours afterwards. Went through some stuff with a guy, and he got a little interrupted a couple, three times, but for the most part, it was a pretty good discussion.

And he was not able to answer some of the difficult questions that I proposed to him. He had to backtrack on some stuff. But this is often the case with those who deny biblical theology, think that they're right.

And one of the things that happened numerous times was him altering the Word of God to make it fit, rephrasing it to make it fit his theology. And that's a sign of someone who doesn't understand biblical theology, who doesn't change words to change things, to make things better, to fit your theology.

And that's not, of course, that's not a good thing. I remember when I was talking to a guy named Layton Flowers, he's a well-known anti-reformed individual, and we were having a phone conversation on Philippians 129, where it says that God grants that we have faith.

And I just read it, I quoted it to him, it's what it says, I quoted it. And he said, no, God grants you the opportunity to have faith. And it was just a subtle thing, very, very subtle change of God's Word.

But that subtle change is what makes it palatable for your theological perspective. Now this is an interesting perspective, because when Adam and Eve were in the garden, God said to Adam, don't eat of the tree, don't eat of this fruit.

And so Adam told Eve about this, and then when the devil in Genesis 3 talked to Eve, and she changed the Word of God. Because, let's see, I'm looking at it right now, let's read the first few verses. Now, the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had.

Made.

And he said to the woman, indeed, has God said you shall not eat from any tree of the.

Garden.

The woman said to the serpent, from the fruit of the tree to the garden we may eat, but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said you shall not eat or touch it, or you shall die.

But God didn't say touch it, he didn't say that. She modified the Word of God, or touch it. And as soon as that's done, the modification of God's Word, the next thing comes is the contradiction of God's Word.

So the serpent said to the woman, you shall not die. So God said, you will die, and she altered God's Word just a little bit. Just a little. And then the Word of God's contradicted. This is how it works a lot of times with those who are lost in varying cult mind traps.

It happens in Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, you know, Atheism, even when they quote the Word of God. And those who deny the Trinity, deny that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, Unitarians, Modalists, religious people, and things like this.

So it was rather enlightening, and I thought it was a good conversation. What do you think, Charlie? You were there the whole time, weren't you? It was a good conversation, and you know, I know if he's listening, that's fine.

We can call in and we can have a discussion on the air even, and go through some of this stuff, see if he's solving any of the problems that I gave him. So that's one of the issues there. So, I released an article today, too, and I'll talk about that a little bit.

Bible Translation Philosophy: Literal, Dynamic, Readable, and Elegant

But first, let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air.

Yes, good evening, Matt Slick. I've got a question. See, I hear, I watch sometimes, listen to the Christian pastors who promote Bible word for word translations, right? And I'm watching videos by, you know, Daniel B. Wallace, he's an expert, you know, in translations and all that.

He's the executive director of the Southern Baptists, and he says the people who say that, who want an accurate word for word translation, they don't know what they're talking about. They say that's two different types of questions, he says, because you can't translate from an idiom from one language to another language.

So he categorizes Bible translations in three categories, like elegance, accuracy, and readability. So what do you think about this?

He's correct. He's absolutely correct. So translations, what I call it, is trying to be literal as possible, and you can do that in translations. And what I do, I speak enough Spanish to get around, and for example, to say, I'm hungry in Spanish, you say, yo tengo hambre.

But that is interesting, because the literal translation is, I, I have hunger. That's the literal translation, I, I have hunger. So if you want a literal translation of something, you say, I, I have hunger.

But that's not how we talk in English. So we say, I am hungry, and that's a proper and accurate translation. It's both in a sense literal, but not really literal, because you're trying to be as accurate as possible.

And so this happens from one language to another language. My wife speaks French, and so we'll be watching something, and maybe a little bit of French comes on, and I'll ask her, you know, was that accurate, and she goes, pretty accurate, you know, whatever.

And it's just like that. It just happens. So there are translations that are more literal, like the NESB, and there are translations that are more flowing, like the NIV. And so it just depends on what's going on and what you want, and what the intention.

Is.

I prefer as literal as possible.

Okay?

Yeah, because he was saying that, he said, you see, he recommends the best Bible really out there is the Net Bible, and the NIV have the best top scholars, you know, translating the, in that committee.

You know, of course, he likes also the ESB and the URRSB, but he said the American Standard is, you know, it's accurate, very accurate, but it's not very readable.

It's like, what?

Yeah, see, that's the thing, is you have readability issues. So, you know, I'm looking at the NIV in Romans 5 .18, consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people. So also when that righteous act resulted in justification of life for all people.

And that's not what the word people is not there in the Greek, for example, it's not what it says. So it's actually the word anthropos, which is man.

Right, that's what he mentioned about that.

So it's a good example of something. So for example, when you go to Romans 5 .18, which I use that to check all Bibles with, I just go right away to Romans 5 .18. So what's the intention here? Because it literally, it says for all men in the Greek is anthropos, which is the accusative plural.

So if you want a literal translations, you say all men, you don't say women and you don't say people. But what's intended by Paul when he writes that the intention is all people. That's what's going on.

So both translations are correct. Both translations are correct. So it depends. One is dynamic. One is more fluid. One is direct and one is more fluid. And that's fine. Now for me, as an apologist, I want as literal as possible because I believe everything in the original is inspired very, very accurately.

And that's how you get a more accurate understanding of what was intended. And you can't do deep Bible study, word studies with Bibles that are not as accurate, one to one translation. But none, no translation is perfect that way.

OK, yeah, yeah. He was saying that, yes, I interrupt you. Yeah, but he was saying that the Net Bible and the NIV are the most translational too. They're the ones, the best ones to get more to the original meaning of the words,.

Basically.

The NIV, the Net Bible, in fact, let me go look at the Net Bible right now. And I'll go to Romans 5, 18. And here we go. And it says, consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so, too, through one righteous act came righteousness leading to life.

That's a horrible translation in that Bible. Sorry, but it is in that Bible. And I know why. So you see, but the thing is, the NESB 95, which I like to joke around and say Paul the Apostle used, well, the NIV has better translations in some areas and the NESB does and vice versa.

So it's just not that easy to say what it is that is the right one. So it just depends on your intention. That's why I say to people, get a literal translation, get a flowing translation. And generally the King James thrown in there is good.

The King James, I don't use for apologetics, but it has a lot of interesting ways of saying things in between, for example, if you use the NESB, the NIV and the KJV, I think between those, if you were to compare versus when they're different enough that you are curious, it'll force you to go study.

And that's where the treasure is. And you'll see why one translation does it that way, why another one does a different way. So there you go.

Yeah, you know, he was saying that, you know, the Tendell, half of the words in the King James, most of the words in the Tendell was mostly towards the King James. He said he recommends that King James has more of an elegance, you know, the elegance of the trend.

Yeah. But but but but concerning to like accuracy is not really recommended so much, you know, but like you say, different depends on what you want, you know, different translations, some are more readable, some are more accurate, and some are more elegant.

So this is what you want to get out of the Bible, correct?

Right. And as long as you're aware that no single English translation is perfect, it just is not the case. That's why I recommend three Bibles for people. If you want to do serious study, have all three open and just compare verses and compare what you're reading.

And if there's discrepancies in your mind, go study and you'll find them like Romans 518, for example. And another one, let's go to here. Let's go to Titus 213 in a net Bible. All right. This is important, too.

It says, as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Now, that's a good translation. It's grand, sharp rule right there in Greek.

That's good. Yeah. But the King James, for example, in Titus 213, says so a great God and our Savior. Christ. So the implication there in English is it separates them where the other one doesn't. So each translation has strengths and weaknesses.

OK, buddy. Yeah, OK.

Yeah. They're mentioning about that James White and I got a break.

We got to get a break. All right, buddy. God bless. Talk to you later, man. OK. Hey, folks, you right back after these messages, please stay tuned.

Mary, Veneration, and the Charge of a Functioning Goddess

Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. So I've been working on an article for a while out of an argument I've been developing when a lot of times when I release it today, a lot of times when I go online and discuss, I learn things.

It happens frequently. And the reason is because I'll face different people with different objections, different responses, different worldviews. And so I take the things that I've learned in scripture and logic, philosophy, science, whatever it might be, and then I'll do the best I can to discuss whatever it is I'm going to be discussing with someone.

And a few months ago when I was discussing salvation with the Catholics, we got talking about Mary and it occurred to me then that they see her as a functioning goddess. Now, they don't call her a goddess and she's not technically a goddess, but she functions as one.

And when I first started saying this to Catholics, it really threw them for a loop because they hadn't heard that before, I guess. And so I continued to pursue that avenue and it became quite fruitful because as I worked on this and thinking about it different ways, I discovered more and more that that is exactly the case.

Now, the Catholics and the East Orthodox, what they'll do is they'll say they venerate, not worship. And the problem here is that you could have two people, let's just say they're identical twins, and they both go to the same Catholic church, or East Orthodox, it doesn't matter.

They both go to the same Catholic church and at the same age, they believe in the same stuff. And there's literally kneeling down before the front of the church, and the front of the church is a statue of Mary and a statue of Jesus.

Okay, Jesus on the cross or whatever, they do different things. Statue of Jesus, statue of Mary. And one of them is praying to Mary and the other is praying to Jesus. Just so happens, since they're identical twins, they're saying the exact same thing, except the only difference is one addresses a prayer to Mary, one addresses a prayer to Jesus.

And in the prayer, each of them identically, they ask for intercession, deliverance, they ask for help in varying issues in varying ways. So when they do the exact same thing to slightly different objects, are they both worshiping?

The Catholic would say that the one who is praying to Jesus is performing true worship, but the one praying to Mary is not performing true worship. And so they'll say, because what the one praying to Mary is doing is venerating, it's not worship, because worship only goes to God.

So the only difference is the word that they use, that they change the, they change, it's hard to interchange the meaning, they define it each this way, but the actions and the intentions are identical.

So the illustration I developed was there's a man who goes into a gym and he works out for two hours. He does bench press, he does military press, leg press, he does squats, he does biceps, triceps, delts, he works and he does three sets of 10, then eight, then six until failure.

And he does this on all kinds of muscle groups. He works everything in one day, which you're not supposed to do rarely, but anyway, works everything in one day. All right, he does that. And then on the way out, he, someone says to him, that was a great workout you had.

And he said, I did not have a workout. I was exercising. Well, just changing the name or the word you're using with the same slight differentiation in it doesn't mean that it's different. And that's the point I'm trying to make with the Catholics is that they are doing this, they are elevating Mary.

The Catholics in the Eastern Orthodox are elevating Mary to the level of a goddess, but she's not a goddess. She functions as one. So I wrote this article and I went through quite a bit of information.

It took me about a week to write it because I had so many other things I had to do and I did it here and there. And I talked about veneration and worship and what is a functioning goddess. And then I broke up the, the, the work of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox regarding Mary into three categories, titles, characteristics, and actions.

And, and so, uh, they, they're very similar, slightly different in the two religions, but, uh, but very, very similar. And then we talk about the issue of, uh, adoration, veneration, and I developed a table where on the left column on the center column, actually, uh, Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy on the right is scripture.

And I compare the, I give definitions from different sources and then go into the physical display of veneration and worship and show how the physical displays are identical to that of worshiping God.

And so this is the kind of stuff that, uh, you know, I was working on and stuff. And you can go check out the article and see if it's helpful. Now, I know that there's a lot of Catholics, Eastern Orthodox who might be listening and they might be shaking their heads saying, Matt just does not understand what we really teach.

Perhaps that is the case. Perhaps I don't understand what you really teach. Certainly the case.

All right.

But why don't you then, um, call me up and tell me how, and maybe you could review the article and tell me if the things that I've, that I have, um, categorized are accurate from your perspective of view, just tell me, is it.

True?

I think it would be worth, uh, you know, a gander because I, I am very concerned about the idolatry that's presented in the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches. And it is idolatry. Let's get to Eric from Ohio, Eric.

Welcome.

You're on the air.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Meaning of Baptizo

Oh, hi, Matt. I got called yesterday about the, uh, personhood of the Holy spirit.

Yeah.

And I had, uh, a few, uh, questions about the, um, well, for example, like what, what is exactly meant by the baptism of the Holy spirit and why is the term baptism used and what is it? What does it do?

All right. So let's go to the scriptures and we'll talk about the Bible says, okay, we go to acts one, for example, and now some people say the word baptism or baptized in Greek baptizo or the root BAPT always means immerse that is just blatantly.

Wrong.

It might mean it, but it certainly does not always mean it. I'll show you. I'm going to do is look at acts one, five after the break, because we've got a break coming up right now. We'll get into the issue of the baptism of the Holy spirit and what it generally is agreed to be.

Okay.

So hold on, buddy. We'll be right back, folks, right after these messages, please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right.

I would welcome back to the show. If you want, you can give me a call. 877 -207 -2276. And you can also email me info at CARM, C-A-R-M, info at CARM .org. And you can put the subject line, radio comment, radio question.

All right. So, uh, let's get back on with Eric, Eric, you're still there. All right. So I wrote an article on this. Oh, uh, let's see. We've got to write it back. Oh, 2008, I guess. And so, um, we don't know exactly what it means.

And when I mean exact, I mean, exact. We don't know exactly what it means. The phrase is used several times in the Bible. In Matthew 3, 11, for example, I baptized you with water for repentance, but he's coming after me.

He's mightier than I, he'll baptize you with the Holy spirit and with fire. Um, Mark 1, 8, I baptized you with water, but he'll baptize you with the Holy spirit. And it goes on in acts one, five for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy spirit.

How many days for now? Uh, so I was talking about acts one, five for John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy spirit. Okay. Now, so before I kind of delved into possible answers, let me give you a little more background to be baptized with the Holy spirit.

When we are anointed with oil, that means the oil is applied to us. When you are anointed with blood, it means the blood is applied to you. That's how it is in the scriptures. I've done a lot of research on that.

And I did some deep studies on the word with, like with water, with blood, with oil. And I did a select baptized. Let's see. Um, I get a lot of references here, but baptized with water seems to imply the application of water to a person.

Now this is not popular within Christian circles. And most people say, well, when you're baptized with water, it means you're immersed in water and that's what it means. Well, it says, uh, in second Chronicles, 28, 15, anointing them with oil.

Uh, Ezekiel 69, I bathed you with water, washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil, uh, to anoint with you, your anoint with oil to the sick mark six 13. I can go on. Uh, God anointed him with the Holy spirit.

The Holy spirit is applied to. You are cleansed with blood. The blood's applied to you. You're filled with the Holy spirit. We'll get to this a little bit. And I did, uh, a study on, uh, verb with object occurrences, uh, baptized with water and things like that.

He struck him with the edge of the sword. The sword is applied to this person. Strike him with the spear to the ground. In first Samuel 26, uh, he killed him with the sword. And so I, I really was curious about this and I went and did this really in depth study, so I did this about a year or two ago and this kind of thing.

So it certainly seems to be the case that when you're baptized with the Holy spirit, it is the case that the Holy spirit is applied to you. And this is true because the Bible prophesies about that very thing.

And in, let me go to it in, let me go here in acts two 17 and it shall be in the last days, God says that I will pour forth my spirit and all mankind pour forth. So I thought, okay. So I went, I did a study on to pour regarding varying things, particularly the issue of, uh, the Holy spirit.

And I found out that the cup of the new covenant is poured out. I found that that, uh, in the did okay, which is, I don't, it's not scripture, but it's written in like the year 60 to 65 AD range that you pour baptism has talked about poor water three times on the head.

There are, uh, let's see some other ones here. Uh, let's see.

Pouring.

Here we go. So until the spirit is poured out on us, that's Isaiah 32 and Isaiah 44, a pour out my spirit and I've got eight references like this. Nope. Nine, 10 references were poured out. Well, what I'm seeing is that it's the application of the spirit to just like you're anointed with oil.

You're anointed with blood. You're baptized with water. I see, this is my opinion. I see the, the issue of baptizing with water as the application of water to the person. Now, this may be really surprising to a lot of people, but I've done a really deep study on this.

In fact, when Jesus was baptized, according to the law, he was made under the law, Galatians four, four, he had to fulfill that law, Matthew five, 17, while he was entering into the priesthood at his baptism.

And we know that because he's a high priest after the order of Hebrews six, 20 and seven 25, but also, um, he had to fulfill righteousness because that's Matthew three 15. When he said to, to, uh, John the Baptist, you need to baptize me.

And John said, no, you gotta baptize me. And Jesus says, we need to fulfill righteousness. He's talking about the old Testament law. Well, the places I did an in-depth study on this too. The places in the old Testament that you see the chapters that you see that deal with the things that are recorded in Matthew, uh, that Jesus had to fulfill like, uh, uh, being 30 years of age in order to enter the priesthood.

That's in the old Testament anointed with oil. That's the Holy spirit. That's the old Testament. Um, doing various things.

Okay.

And one of them was sprinkled with water and that's numbers eight, seven. The priest had to be sprinkled with water and I could find no place at all where the priest was immersed in water. I could not find it in scripture.

In fact, we'll find that some of the priests, they would go to the tent door and they would have water applied to them. And it was called washing. And I can go through this a lot more too. So when we talk with all this background, you're baptized with the Holy spirit.

The implication certainly seems to be that the Holy spirit is applied to you and that something happens in that context. So now having said all of that, let me go to a subscription. I want you to see this from scripture.

Okay.

It says, Peter said to them, repent and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy spirit. Well, the gift here seems to be the charismatic gifts because that's the context, because they're speaking in tongues, which is a fulfillment of Joel two 28, 29, that, uh, Luke quotes or Peter saying here at in acts two, uh, it shall be in the last days.

God says, I'll pour forth my spirit on all mankind. You'll pour forth his spirit. Now, when we go back to acts one five, Jesus has John baptized with water. You'll be baptized with the Holy spirit. If baptized there means immersed, Johnny mercy with water.

You'll be immersed with the Holy spirit. That is not how the Bible speaks of the Holy spirit. It's an application of work of the Holy spirit coming upon a person and anointing them and sending them to do a work.

And that's what it seems to be. And it says also in X two 38, you received the gift of the Holy spirit. This is in the context of them speaking in tongues. Now I'm almost done here. Thanks for my being patient with me.

Acts 10 44. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came to Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.

So we see here, the gift of the Holy spirit seems to be the charismatic.

Movements.

Now, having said all of that, it appears to be the idea to be baptized with the Holy spirit is that very thing of the unction of the Holy spirit upon you that moves you in a more powerful spiritual way to some it's speaking in tongues to others.

It might be moving in other charismatic gifts, exalting God, as it says, because they were hearing them speaking in tongues and exalting God. That's part of the gift of the spirit's work. Personally, now I'm just going to stretch a little bit here.

We're almost up for a break. Let me comment.

We'll get back.

Personally, I suspect that the baptism of the Holy spirit on me was anointing me to study, to be able to teach and see things in the word of God. Now, hopefully I'm correct. Maybe I'm boasting and arrogant and claiming things that aren't true.

I don't know, but it seems to be consistent with what the Holy spirit does when he guides and anoints people for something, some way, somehow. Hold on, be right back after these messages. Okay, buddy.

Be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Now, before we get to back to him, uh, I know a lot of people probably raising their eyebrows to what I'm saying, but I've done a lot of study on this and I think it's interesting.

Maybe we can extract that section and a transcript too. So if others can go over it again. All right. Let's get back on with Eric from Ohio.

Hey, Eric.

Okay. Did that help any of them? It was a lot, but it helped.

Yeah, that's a, it is a very interesting point with the how of the baptism. It aroused a question of at salvation at that moment. Is there a simultaneous occurrence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Are those two inseparable?

Yes and no. So I can't say for sure, uh, because as I've looked through the scriptures, uh, I, I've not been able to prove that they happen at the same time. I can't prove they happen at different times.

So, and that's a, it's a great question. And I'm really trying to review some of the studies I've done on this to try and, uh, to remember more information because I've, I've studied it. And so we know that in one respect, we received the Holy Spirit when we are, are justified, when we, we, um, when we're saved, we have the Holy Spirit that that's it.

That's a, it's a guarantee and we'll never lose that. But there seems to be something later on that can occur to somebody. And that some people call that the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that extra oomph, it's like putting nitrous oxide in your engine.

It really makes it go fast. And so it's like that.

Okay.

It seems to be.

Okay. Yeah.

What there, man?

Okay.

I wish I had, I appreciate it.

Okay.

Well, God bless.

God bless.

All right. We'll see you. All right. Hope that was interesting and informative. I try and be as accurate as I can and as biblical as I can. And I would love your feedback and all of that. I know it's not what the average pastor's teaching, but you know, I got a lot of notes.

I do a lot of notes on stuff. I know how my notes on baptism are 51 pages.

Okay.

So not very big, but I'm, I'm learning. Let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air.

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18

Hey, Matt, how are you doing?

I'm doing all right. Hanging in there.

And no, thanks for taking my call.

Okay.

Um, I have a question about, uh, uh, Luke 18, nine, uh, and 10 about the, uh, Pharisee and the tax, uh, yeah, Pharisee and the tax collector. When they went up to pray, what was the difference between their prayers?

Well, one was arrogant and the other was humble. That's one of the major differences.

Okay.

Yeah.

My question is, is, um, I don't mean anything bad about this, but you know, when the Pharisee had said, um, I'm think I thank you. I'm not like those other, uh, other men. Um, now this, I'm going to ask you, when you talk about Catholics and Jehovah witnesses and, um, Mormons, do you believe that you're saying I'm thankful I'm not like those other religions?

No, not in the sense that the Pharisee was saying it because he was saying that, uh, this tax gatherer is no good. He can't do anything right.

No.

When I, when I expose the heresies of the Catholic and East Orthodox church, it's just what it is. It's heresy. And the only reason I am saved is because of God's mercy and grace and that's it.

Okay.

Yeah.

But, um, like you say that Catholic churches in a Christian church, but according to Google, it's the biggest church in the world for Christians.

Yeah.

Google is not known for its accurate theological perspective.

Okay.

But, um, okay. One thing about the Catholic churches, I think you've misunderstood is when they say you have to be baptized. I believe they're talking about the baptism of the Holy spirit. You have to be baptized with the Holy spirit to be saved.

And, uh, would you believe that a person must be baptized with the Holy spirit to be saved?