WWUTT 965 Q&A Pope's Prayer, Casting Lots, Love Wins, Living Out?

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What's with the Pope changing the Lord's prayer? Why did the apostles cast lots to choose a new apostle?

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Is 2 Peter 2 about universal atonement? And how different is same -sex attraction from opposite -sex attraction?

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The answers to these questions when we Understand the Text. This is

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When we Understand the Text, a daily study in the word of Christ, to which we would do well to pay attention, as to a lamp shining in a dark place.

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For all of our resources, visit us online at www .wutt .com.

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Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So we want to mention once again here our financial need that we have as a church.

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It was a tough year for us at the start. I think our church really only gathered in February one time.

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Yeah, it was about that. There was once when church had to be canceled. I wasn't here for that.

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I wasn't even in the state of Kansas at that time. And then there were other Sundays that we only had maybe 20 people come or something just because of the snow and ice made it difficult for people to get there.

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It was really tough. That was a tough month. We even had to tap into one of our extra accounts and pull money over in order to make up the shortfall.

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Yeah, that was tough to recover from after that. And then we've had a really tough year and some other things, details that I can't go into.

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It's just been a tough year for our church. And if there is a way that you could give to us, we would sure appreciate it.

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Of course, being a church, it's a nonprofit organization. So your donations are tax deductible. Our address is

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First Southern Baptist Church, 1220 West 8th Street, Junction City, Kansas 66441.

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Or you can donate online going to www .utt .com. Click on the Give tab, which is in a different location now, but it's still there on the top of the page just because we changed our layout on the website.

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You can also donate by PayPal, but you'll have to contact me about that and I'll let you know how you can do that.

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Just shoot us an email when we understand the text at gmail .com. If you say, hey,

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I want to give, but I can't give these other ways that you've mentioned, is there another way that you can give? I'll let you know how you can provide for us by PayPal.

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And all of those proceeds go to help out our church and our church makes this podcast as well as the what videos and other resources that we put out available for free.

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That's right. Hang on a second. We're still kind of getting over.

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We're still getting over this stuff. We, um, we were, we had our booth at G3 this past January and, um, we were, everybody was asking, you know, how, how are you guys supported?

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How is this free? How is this a free resource we can use just anywhere? And it's because our church is available to, um, give us this funds and to keep everything running smooth at the church and running smooth here at the house.

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And, and they take very, very good care of us. But whenever times get tight and, um, military especially is very, um, it's, it's, it causes our church to be very transient.

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Yeah. And so sometimes are, are slower than others. And, and right now is just one of those times where there's a lot of people deployed and a lot of people that have, um, been moved to a different station.

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It's just, it's been really tough this year. It's been a tough season. Yeah. And we're losing some more in June.

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We are. And then, no, not June. We're, um, July and August. July and August. I was just saying it is

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June. They, they pushed it back. So I'm very grateful to have them for another month or two. We do have, we do have a couple of deployments coming up this month.

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We do. We just don't have families moving until about July or August. And I don't think anybody's coming home until September.

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September and October. Yep. Yep. So it's, it's going to be a little bit, uh, more trinkle out than trinkling in.

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Yes. So, uh, however you can provide for us and help us out, we would sure appreciate that.

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And once again, you can find all the contact info at our website, www .utt .com.

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Yes, all of this, we want to keep free. We want to keep the podcast free, the videos free, and it is our church that provides for us.

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And we want to keep the church debt free. We want to keep the church debt free. We got out of debt within like the second or third year that I was pastor.

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Praise the Lord for that. Oh, amen. And everything that we've done has been debt free. Some of you will remember, uh, a couple, two or three years ago, we had asked for funds to help patch our roof.

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That's right. And do some other repairs that needed to be done inside the building. We were able to do all of that debt free.

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Oh yeah. Didn't ever have to take out a loan for that. That's amazing. Yes. Some of you were very generous with your giving in that.

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And we are. And the Lord is amazing. Yeah. He provides. Always provided for us. Always blessed us.

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Even when we hit these shortfall times, uh, there's something amazing that ends up happening and the

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Lord has shown his faithfulness over and over again. The way that we teach at our church is what you hear on the broadcast and what you hear in the videos.

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We are committed to biblical teaching and I'm an expository preacher and, uh, and taking my congregation through the word of Christ.

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We're finishing up Galatians here in a couple of weeks and then I'm going to get into Ephesians and by the end of this year, cause

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I'm only going to do about a six month study of Ephesians. Some of you are going, well, John MacArthur would take five years at least.

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Yeah. Now I'm going to do six months. Uh, by the time I finish Ephesians, I will have been all the way through all of Paul's epistles in seven years.

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That's pretty awesome. Then we're going to go to Matthew. Yay. Got to do a gospel. I haven't preached through a gospel yet.

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We started Matthew on a Sunday night service one time. I don't remember how far we got and I split those duties with Joe.

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Oh yeah. Wow. That was a long time ago. That had to have been 2014 because that was when he moved and then we quit doing

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Matthew after. So I didn't get all the way through Matthew and that was a Sunday night service thing.

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Being Friday, we take questions from listeners and you can submit those questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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The first couple that I have here actually came via Twitter. Oh.

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And this first one is about the Pope having changed the Lord's prayer.

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That is crazy. Have you heard about this? Yeah. Man. And I'm just going to go ahead and read this article for you here, dailywire .com.

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Pope Francis finally approved the changes he has long wanted to implement to the Lord's prayer by replacing lead us not into temptation with do not let us fall into temptation.

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On May 22nd, during the General Assembly of the Episcopal Conference of Italy, President Cardinal Bassetti, that's my

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Italian for you right there. Oh, okay. I was wondering what that was. That's my golden Italian tongue, announced the approval of a third edition of the

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Massal Romano, reports the outlet. The revised translation will include changes to the

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Lord's prayer and Gloria. The Lord's prayer will change from and lead us not into temptation to do not let us fall into temptation.

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The changes will be implemented to the Italian missal only and will have no effect on the

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English speaking world. Whoa. So in English, they're still going to be saying it the same way. It just changes in Italian.

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Apparently, Pope Francis first spoke of his desire to update the lead us not into temptation part of the

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Lord's prayer, arguing that it portrays God in a false light. A father does not lead into temptation.

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A father helps you to get up immediately. The pope said at the time it is not a good translation because it speaks of a

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God who induces temptation. He added Pope Francis also asserted that other translations had already been changed to correct mistakes and modernize the language.

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The French have modified the prayer to do not let me fall into temptation because it is me who falls, not the

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Lord who tempts me to then see how I fall. He said, according to the

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UK Express, the change to the to the Lord's prayer comes after 16 years of research by experts who found a mistake in the current translation from a theological, pastoral and stylistic viewpoint.

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It has been translated into literally hundreds of languages from the original texts in ancient

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Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. The Daily Wire's Michael Knowles explored why the original translation may actually be the correct one by adhering to the ancient

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Greek word Pirasmos, while Pirasmos, the word for temptation in ancient Greek, may be open to alternate interpretations.

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Who precisely does the leading is not Pirasmos connotes

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Pirasmos connotes not only temptation, but also trial and testing.

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My English is apparently as good as my Italian Pirasmos connotes not only temptation, but also trial and testing as in to test one's metal.

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It is in all of these senses, two paragraphs before St. Matthew relates the prayer that Jesus is led up by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted, tested by the devil.

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In both cases, while the devil does the tempting, God leads the way to the trial. Just why

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God might lead his faithful into temptation or testing poses a difficult theology question, if not an outright mystery.

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Now, Mr. Knowles is correct in that sense. In Matthew chapter six is where we have it.

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I'm sorry. Matthew chapter four is where it says Matthew four one. Then Jesus was led up by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

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And in Deuteronomy chapter 13 verses one through four, if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass.

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And if he says, let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them, then you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.

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For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the

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Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice.

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And you shall serve him and hold fast to him. James one verses 12 through 15 says blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial for when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which

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God has promised to those who love him. Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one.

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But each person is tempted when he is Lord and enticed by his own desire. Then desire, when it is conceived, gives birth to sin and sin.

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When it is fully grown, brings forth death. So it is theology.

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It is even theologically correct to interpret the Lord's prayer. Matthew 6 13 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

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For the Lord does lead us into temptation and into testing. But he himself is not the one who does the tempting, right?

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The devil is the tempter or we are lured and enticed by our own desires, right?

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But God himself is not the tempter. He uses a secondary means to test us and therefore also perfect us in our faith that we would hold steadfast to him and let steadfastness have its full effect as James talks about in James chapter one.

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Okay. Count it all joy when you face trials of many kinds for, you know, that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

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Pope's just wrong, but you knew that anyway. Well, God does it. So you are sanctified and so you grow in patience and all the fruit of the spirit.

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And, um, that way the, the next trial that you come to, you're more, you're more capable of handling it.

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That's right. So, yeah, I mean, I, I don't disagree with the, the way it is.

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And man, if he was changing the English, I don't know. I think I would have some family members up all up in arms about it.

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No, it's just the Italian. Just the Italian. That is, that is interesting. But why would he do just the

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Italian though? It still leads a precedent that there are going to be other priests and bishops who will change it because the

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Pope did so, even though the official change and it is exactly right. Yeah.

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That's, that's interesting though. He only changed it in Italian. We understand what he's doing and the way that he's rewording it and other bishops and priests, bishops and priests are going to follow suit because the

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Catholic church believes it has the authority over scripture, right? Not that scripture is the authority over us, but the church actually reigns over scripture.

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Now, in this particular case, I've actually addressed this issue and answered the question before I even read the question.

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So it's like jeopardy. I gave the answer first and now we do the question. So Matthew in Kansas city said in the article, he says that he feels the original translation was poor since you are a pastor and I assume you can read

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Greek, what do you think about how it's translated? Could you explain it to me? That would help a lot.

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Well, the, uh, now to expound upon my answer a little bit more, it seems to me that the

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Pope's problem with this really didn't have to do with the Greek. Oh, he didn't think that it was translated incorrectly from the

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Greek. He had a problem with the phrase and lead us not into temptation. Yeah, he did.

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Definitely. He thought that was theologically incorrect. The Greek translation has nothing to do with it.

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Does he know the rest of the Bible? The Pope? No. And again, I think that this, this is one of those instances where, uh, it, the theology of the

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Pope becomes evident that he doesn't even understand the concept of temptation or being tested to know that this is theologically correct.

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And, uh, and therefore is, is trying to change the translation. Well, I mean, I get it. It's a little confusing.

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Whenever I was a baby in the faith, I didn't understand what that phrase meant and I couldn't explain it. I just knew that was part of the prayer.

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So I would say it, but, um, now as I'm growing,

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I, I, I'm still starting to understand. I still don't have a, like a, a true grasp on it, but at least

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I'm able to say, yes, that's true. You know, it's, it's, it's just so frustrating that isn't that in Jesus's own words,

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I mean, he is, the Pope is saying that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah, basically.

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And it's like, um, who would know it better? Give me a person on this earth that would know it better.

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Right. But the, the Pope being the vicar of Christ believes that he is another Christ, but he's a vicar of Christ.

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Like Christ is. Yeah. But the actual definition of the Pope, he thinks that he is the head of the church.

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He is another Christ. So whatever he says goes so frustrating. Don't lead our brothers and sisters.

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That's Roman Catholic theology for you away. Now in the further and further away in the

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Lord's prayer and, and, uh, RC Sproul has addressed this, but in Matthew 16, or I'm sorry,

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Matthew six 13 in particular, where it says, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

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There is an article there before evil deliver us from the evil. And so as RC Sproul has said, it really should be more accurately translated, deliver us from the evil one.

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So may the Lord not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. And this even hearkens back a couple of chapters to exactly what

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Jesus went through in the desert. Right. And he was tempted by the evil one, but he resisted that temptation and in so doing was perfected so that he might become a perfect sacrifice on our behalf.

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That's why Jesus went through that. We go through testing and temptation because we share in the sufferings of Christ and we are being perfected through those things into Christ likeness that we might be made more like him, less where we are weak.

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He is strong. Amen. We can totally depend on that. Second Corinthians 12 nine.

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I believe it is. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in your weakness.

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Thank you for your question, Matthew. And, uh, sorry for answering that before I read the question.

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Next one comes from Robin. This is another Twitter question. Okay. Pastor Gabe, epiphany moment listening this morning to the what podcast.

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I believe this was either Monday or Tuesday's episode. Okay. Did the apostles cast lots so that God's choice of Matthias as the apostle that would replace

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Judas so, so that God's choice of Matthias could not be attributed to them as their choice.

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I've never considered this. Can you expound? I've always heard people ask, why did they cast lots?

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Thank you. So let's go to, I was turning to the right blindly and I went clear past acts, uh, acts chapter one.

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Okay. Here we go. So they're gathered in the upper room. This of course is after Jesus has ascended into heaven.

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The disciples went back into Jerusalem. They are choosing the apostle who is going to replace

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Judas. Okay. And it comes down to two guys, Matthias and justice, because these two men had been in the, the earthly ministry of Christ since his baptism by John the

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Baptist all the way through his crucifixion, his resurrection, and now his ascension into heaven.

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Okay. So there were more than 12, right. That followed him around. Right. Yeah. Or 11 guys that, that had followed him around and, uh, and had seen his baptism and therefore his ascension into heaven.

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There were many others than that. Like, like, I mean, you have the story of Jesus sending out the 72. So there were 72 disciples that he had sent out to preach the gospel and perform miracles, but there was the inner 12, which there are 12 apostles, 12 tribes of Israel representing the people of God, all the people of God, whether old

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Testament or new Testament are saved by grace through faith. Yes. And anyway, so I'm going to go into a whole numerology thing.

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If I, if I continue going with that, uh, 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles. So to replace the one missing apostle, which was

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Judas, who had killed himself, justice and Matthias were most qualified. And in acts one verse 24, the apostles prayed and said, you

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Lord who know the hearts of all show, which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which

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Judas turned aside to go to his own place and they cast lots for them, which is like rolling a dice.

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And we might even think of this as being the, the Urim and the Thummim, which is talked about in the, uh, in the old

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Testament, the, the black stone and the white stone, that's kind of like the yes or no stone, right? Okay.

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One would probably represent Matthias and the other one would represent justice. Okay. So which one is the one whom

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God had chosen and the lot fell on Matthias and he was numbered with the 11 apostles.

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So there we had 12 apostles again by the end of acts chapter one. So in Proverbs 16, 33, it says the lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the

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Lord. And we have multiple occasions in the scriptures when lots are casted in order to decide something.

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Hang on. Really? Yeah. Feel better. Yep. Get rid of all my coughs in there.

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Um, there are occasions in which lots are cast in Leviticus. It says that lots should be cast to decide which of two goats are going to be the scapegoat.

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Which one is going to be sent out into the wilderness to a Zazel. In the book of Joshua, you have lots cast to decide who is going to receive what land.

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Right. And, uh, in Nehemiah, lots were cast to decide who was going to live in Jerusalem.

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And in acts one, you have lots cast to decide who will be the apostle.

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That will take over the position that was left vacant vacant by Judas. And this is all according to the

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Lord's plan. Because again, as we have it in Proverbs, the, every decision from the lot is made from the

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Lord. Yeah. Pagans cast lots too, but they cast lots for, you know, unto their pagan gods, or they would do it because of luck or chance or, uh, or fate, you know, something to that degree.

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Uh, Jonah was decided as the cause for the storm that was overtaking the boat.

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Because of lots, they cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah. And they're like, no, he was there.

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He was in there. Yeah. I thought he was like, no, no, this, by this time he had already come up out of the cargo hold.

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Oh, okay. Cause they went down and said, how can you sleep during the midst of this? That's right. I forgot that they tried throwing stuff overboard the other way.

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Yeah. Right. They tried throwing stuff overboard. It didn't work. They were still going to, so, so they're casting lots to figure out which one of us is the problem.

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Can you imagine casting lots in that, in that atmosphere, like on a rocking boat, that's about to flip over with a storm going all over, but it was the

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Lord who sovereignly brought up Jonah's lot, like this is the guy dudes.

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He's the one that is causing you all this grief. So the, the lot is definitely the

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Lord. The lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the Lord. And so God had already, already decided.

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I mean, you even think preordained from before the foundation of the world, who would replace Judas. And what the apostles are asking here is, would you reveal to us whom you've already chosen?

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So as they cast lots, they're not, they're not placing the decision on a couple of stones in a, in a cup that they're, you know, rolling out there on the table and, oh, okay.

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It's this guy, this isn't a game of chance. Yeah. They're asking the Lord to reveal to them whom the

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Lord has chosen. Right. And apparently both of these guys were so equally qualified. Yeah.

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That they couldn't decide. We, we can't go based on our opinion alone, but the

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Lord is the one who knows hearts and he knows exactly which one is most ready to fill that apostle, apostleship spot.

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And of course, Matthias was the guy that was whom the Lord had chosen. Right. By the way, there is a debate as to whether or not

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Paul should have actually been the 12th apostle. And Matthias was whom the apostles chose, but God chose

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Paul several chapters later, of course, in Acts chapter nine, I don't agree with that debate.

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I think it's pretty evident here. Matthias was the one whom the Lord chose. There's no reason for us to think otherwise.

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So, so you have the 12 apostles. Paul was not one of them. And even Paul designates the 12 in first Corinthians 15.

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He refers to the 12 and he's not one of the 12. Right. And he calls himself the least of the apostles.

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Right. I understand. Kind of like a junior apostle. Well, it was because he persecuted the church and the other 12 did not.

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True. That's why he calls himself the least of the apostles. He was martyring believers.

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Right. And it was the Lord who turned him from murderer into, well, martyr eventually because he would die for the cause of the gospel.

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That's right. That's why he referred to himself as the least of the apostles, but he does not number himself among the 12.

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So we have no reason to believe that Paul was actually the 12th apostle that God had chosen.

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Right. There's a little side note for you there that didn't have anything to do with the question asked. But again,

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Robin's question, why was it that they cast lots? Because they were asking the Lord to reveal to them whom the

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Lord had already chosen to be the 12th apostle. Next question.

24:43

This one comes from Bevan. This is a non -Bible related question. And non -Twitter. Non -Twitter question.

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This one comes by email. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky. Long time listener from the beginning. First time emailer.

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Could you please tell me the name of the music that you play at the end of your sermon podcast and where I can find it?

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Is it on Spotify? Thanks for all you do. Blessings from New Zealand. Oh, fun.

25:08

Hello. Good eye. I need to say it louder so that way he can hear me.

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And longer too. Apparently, it's got to get all the way across the Pacific. I've actually met some people from New Zealand.

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They. Good for you. It was fun. It was really crazy because they were hired in by farmers out in southwest

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Kansas. And that's where my grandpa farms. And so we were all haulers at that moment for the harvest.

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And I got to chat with them. And it was just so fun. And you're just talking because you want to hear the accent. Well, of course.

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But also, it turns out they had the same weather as us because I thought it would be warmer.

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But it's they said that they get snow sometimes, too. And it's just just flip flopped. Yeah, there are winter months or their summer months.

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Yeah, I mean, knowing what Australia is, I just kind of assumed in my geography.

26:04

Challenge. Challenge. I'm very, very challenged. Challenged. As I bite my tongue that.

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Yeah. So that was pretty cool to learn. All that is fun anyway. So what was the question?

26:18

Oh, the music. The music. The music. You get it on Spotify. Introduction to the sermon, specifically the the portion of the broadcast that we air on Sunday.

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Right. Yes. The introduction is done by a guy named Jonathan Fiery. And I'll tell you, this was just kind of a random find.

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A providential find. Oh, amen. But it was still nonetheless random.

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I was in a Christian bookstore one time and not a Christian bookstore that I was a regular customer at.

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And they had a stack of CDs that were five bucks. And so I just kind of was scrolling through the CDs.

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One was in a paper sleeve and it was just him music on guitar. Never heard of the guy before.

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In fact, his name wasn't even on the front of the CD. You have to look on the back and it's in this subtitled credits on the back.

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He really tiny. Yeah, really, really wasn't even out to put his name on something. He just wanted to make good instrumental music,

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I guess. So I bought the CD being as cheap as it was and listened to it in the car. Man, I loved it.

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And anyway, so Jonathan Fiery is his name. The website that he has is jonathanfiery .com.

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And Fiery is not spelled F -I -E -R -Y. Oh, it's not? It's F -I -R -E -Y.

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Oh. Not the dictionary way to spell Fiery. Okay. But the last name way to spell

27:39

Fiery. And he doesn't really do much anymore. As far as I can tell, the website seems to be fairly outdated.

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When you go on YouTube and look for his music, some of those videos have only been watched like 80 times.

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Oh, wow. I mean, he has a very, very low viewership. The music that he does, though, is pretty widespread.

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And you've probably heard it and just didn't realize you've heard it. He has been played in Chick -fil -A.

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Okay. He's been played in Hobby Lobby. When you're walking around Hobby Lobby and you hear guitar instrumentals and you hear those hymns or maybe recognizable praise and worship songs.

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They're dancing around, yeah. Yeah, that's Jonathan Fiery. He's a worship leader somewhere now, I think.

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He and his wife together. But the music of his, honestly,

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I think you just have to go on YouTube and listen to it, or you might have to record it if you've got a way that you can download the video into an

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MP3 format. Some browsers allow you to do that. Okay. That's about the only way you're going to be able to get it, though.

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He was on iTunes, but what was it just this past week? iTunes is getting shut down. Goodbye.

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Yep. You can't find it on Amazon. It's just stuff he put out there mostly for free. And even on the

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CD that I got on the back, it says, support your local Christian bookstores. And this CD was made to be sold at a bookstore so you can support local commerce.

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It's very humble. It's really humble the way that he puts his music out there. You really have to search to be able to find it.

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But I don't know, Bevan, that you thought you were going to get a story like that. But that's how

29:13

I came into finding that particular CD. And I've been using his instrumental stuff as the intro and outro to all of the church stuff that we do, even on our

29:24

YouTube page, FSBCJC, the videos that I'll put out will either start with or end with his guitar music.

29:33

Or sometimes I'll do something which will have music underneath me as I'm talking, and it's usually his.

29:39

It's Jonathan Fiery stuff. I love it. I do, too. It's beautiful stuff. I hope you enjoy the listening because he's got a

29:48

Christmas album, too, which is for free. But I haven't listened to it. I discovered that trying to answer

29:54

Bevan's question. Oh. I was like, oh, hey, there's a Christmas album. We should get that.

30:00

So now I have to go and find that Christmas album. Next question. Hi, Pastor Gabe. I've heard some argue for universal atonement based on 2

30:10

Peter 2, 1, where it says false teachers will deny the Lord that bought them. I don't think this is a good proof text for universal atonement for many reasons, but would still like to hear your perspective on it sometime.

30:21

Thanks, Eric. 2 Peter chapter 1. I'm sorry.

30:26

2 Peter chapter 2, verse 1 says, but false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

30:44

So the way the argument usually goes is that everybody is universally atoned for Christ's death on the cross.

30:52

His blood covers all of mankind. We're all going to be saved. It's the whole love wins argument.

30:58

OK, yeah, yeah. But there are some false teachers who will deny the master who bought them. Right. They're speaking falsely, and their false teaching will bring strife upon a person.

31:09

It will make life harder, but it doesn't mean that it leads them to destruction because we're all universally atoned for.

31:15

So we're all going to go to heaven again. Do they not read the rest of the Bible? Yeah, right. That's everywhere.

31:22

Who's getting cast into the lake of fire exactly at the end of the story. But anyway, so one of the proof texts that they will use to defend that view is this one, 2

31:33

Peter 2 .1. So they're denying the master who bought them. So see, this is saying that Jesus died for them.

31:39

He bought them with his blood. Therefore, they're saved, even though they're heretics.

31:44

Right. And teaching. Except for the whole deny me and I'll deny you. Yeah, exactly.

31:50

Part of things. Deny me before mankind, I will deny you before the Father. Yeah, that's a thing.

31:56

This is simply a figure of speech to say that these men will claim that they preach

32:03

Christ. But the reality is they're denying the one that they say died for them.

32:08

Okay. That's the way Peter is putting that. Because when you get to the end of 2 Peter 2, it says, let me start in verse 20.

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If after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last date has become worse for them than the first.

32:29

For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness, then after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

32:38

What the true proverb says has happened to them. The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.

32:48

And therefore, they have gone back to the sinful fallen way that they were in the way of destruction that they were in prior to coming to the knowledge of God, according to the gospel.

32:59

But it wasn't real. It wasn't genuine. The gospel wasn't really in their heart and transformed them to become a follower of Christ rather than a follower of Satan.

33:08

Right. So what is revealed ultimately is that they've been a follower of Satan the entire time. Yep. They're just putting it on a good show for a while.

33:16

Yeah, or they they paid lip service to the things they claim they believed, but really, they were using it as a cover for the false teaching that they really wanted to introduce the church to.

33:27

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I get that, too. But that's. Man, it's it's so eye opening because we talk about sin as, you know, like, yes, it's bad, but it's not, you know, you can repent of it and so on and so forth.

33:42

But this calls it vomit and mire. Yeah, that is gross.

33:48

Yes. Like, wow, that really hit home for me. And the way that the

33:54

Apostle Paul talks about false teaching spreading in the church in Second Timothy, he says it spreads like gangrene.

34:01

Yeah, yes. It causes parts of the body to rot and fall off. These are absolutely disgusting things.

34:07

Right. That we still know about nowadays, unlike leprosy in this area anyway. Yeah. And leprosy was supposed to be like an outward physical picture of the pollution in the heart that we have because of our sinful nature.

34:22

Right. And when the when the Lord Jesus Christ comes and heals the lepers, it's showing that he is doing outwardly what he's going to do inwardly.

34:31

He has the power over sickness and disease. He has the power to forgive your sins and give you a new heart.

34:37

Right. That is what's displayed in the miracles that Christ did. It just it's it that makes it that much bigger to me, like the mental picture.

34:49

Right. And it should. It should. And it does. But I wanted to like really plug that home for everybody there listening.

34:56

That is yeah. So I said on the podcast earlier this week, even that we will never know, at least on this side of heaven, we will never know just how far from God we truly were before he intervened.

35:11

Right. And brought us out of the sinful state that we were in, the deadness that we were in because of our sin and made us alive together with Christ.

35:18

Oh, man, I just thought I was such a good person. I keep going back to that. I was a good person.

35:23

I'm a nice guy. That's right. Yeah. What's not to like? That's right. God just loves my beautiful face.

35:30

He would never send me to hell. Ah. But it's because. So, so bad.

35:35

Yeah. It's and that's hubris. I mean, that's pride for us to think that I'm just a good person. God wouldn't do anything to me.

35:43

And we glory in our own unrighteousness. But it's understanding that we have sinned and what we deserve from God is wrath.

35:51

We deserve destruction. Yeah. And it's that awareness of knowing what we deserve that we come to understand our need for a savior.

36:01

And then the gospel that is proclaimed to us is introducing us to the savior. Yeah. That savior is

36:07

Jesus Christ who died for our sins. And he atoned for those whom he died for.

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Not everybody. Not everybody. But only those whom the father had foreordained from before the foundation of the world.

36:22

And we talked about that again earlier this week. You did not choose me, but I chose you. Yes. And appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, as Jesus said to his disciples.

36:30

And he says to us as well. Thank you for your question, Eric. And I hope that gives you some equipment in how to respond to a person who argues for universal atonement based on that particular passage.

36:43

Next question comes from James in Charleston, West Virginia. Pastor Gabe, I have a close family member who is struggling with same -sex attraction.

36:51

Some Christians proclaim that same -sex attraction is not sinful. Same -sex attraction is temptation and acting on temptation is sinful.

37:01

Others disagree and say that same -sex attraction in and of itself is actually sinful.

37:07

Tom Buck's articles on this subject were very helpful in some ways. But I'm confused on this subject, particularly where Tom calls

37:16

Sam Alberry a brother. If same -sex attraction is sin and not temptation, then what is the temptation?

37:24

I do not believe that a person can be a gay Christian. But what about a same -sex attracted

37:30

Christian? If a person struggles, quote unquote, could they still be regenerate?

37:35

Thank you for your question, James. Now, he was referring to articles that were written by now Dr. Tom Buck.

37:41

Yes, congratulations. Tom was not a doctor at the time that he wrote these articles, but it was just a few months ago.

37:49

So he was just a few months away from completing his doctorate. And he was writing articles about the ministry, quote unquote, ministry.

37:57

I would call it a false ministry. But the ministry that is called Living Out, which

38:02

Sam Alberry was a part of. Sam Alberry, who is part of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries, and he's also partnered with a couple of other teachers to produce this ministry called

38:12

Living Out, which I can't stand the name of. But let me set those things aside to kind of focus on what we're talking about here.

38:19

Tom was exposing some of the stuff that Living Out was teaching, and it's crazy stuff.

38:27

But we're not going to go into all of that here. The articles that he published were done through Alpha and Omega Ministries, which is

38:35

James White's ministry. We had posted those blogs through our website or through the

38:41

Facebook page. Okay, yeah. www .facebook .com, well, no, facebook .com

38:46

slash wwttvideos. I don't know how far you'd have to dig in order to find it.

38:52

But just look for Tom Buck, Living Out, and then those articles will come up.

38:58

You'll be able to find those. Now, Living Out has changed some things since Tom Buck wrote those articles.

39:03

To give you just a few examples of this, or one example in particular, there is an audit that Living Out provides for churches, and it asks 10 questions.

39:15

And you're supposed to test your church according to these 10 questions to see if you are inclusive of people who identify as LGBTQ+.

39:26

Now, I already have a problem with that acronym because there's no such thing as LGBTQ people.

39:31

So the very fact that Living Out is using that acronym to identify people is already a problem.

39:37

But there were certain questions in this audit that were problematic. Like the second question, for example, used to be derogatory language or stereotyping attitudes towards sexual minority groups would not be tolerated either up front or in conversations between church family members.

39:55

Is this true, false, or not sure? So that was one of the test questions that you used to see if your church was inclusive of people that they identify as sexual minorities.

40:05

Well, that's already a problem because there's no such thing as sexual minorities. That's not actually a thing.

40:11

Living Out has since changed that question and dropped that term. So now when you go to the audit on the

40:17

Living Out page, it says, derogatory language or stereotyping attitudes towards anyone would not be tolerated either up front or in conversation between church family members.

40:29

I agree with that. I do agree with that, too. They've dropped the reference to sexual minority. The audit is still a problem.

40:36

And there are other references that they make that are still concerning. But again, that's not really the focus of this question.

40:43

Maybe if somebody asks the right question and can frame a direction for me a little bit better, I can address this on a different program.

40:50

Right. But in the meantime, the question that James has is what's up with same sex attraction?

40:59

How is that sinful and not merely temptation? OK. On April 1st in Indianapolis for the church, which is a ministry, it's a sub ministry of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City.

41:15

They had kind of a micro conference at the Gospel Coalition, which was held in Indianapolis this year.

41:22

Right. On one of the evenings of the conference, there was a kind of a for the church hosting that included nine marks.

41:30

And also Sam Albury was part of that. They were talking about denominationalism, essentially.

41:36

OK. But then there was another Q &A after that part of the micro conference was over in which

41:42

Jonathan Lehman of nine marks interviewed Sam Albury. And in that interview,

41:48

Jonathan Lehman actually quoted me. OK. He didn't attribute the quote to me, but he made a statement and then asked

41:57

Sam Albury a question based on that statement. And the statement that I made that Jonathan Lehman quoted was this.

42:04

Same sex attraction is homosexual desire. It must be mortified, not permitted.

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And then Jonathan Lehman asked his question and Sam Albury agreed with my statement.

42:16

So now for those of you who don't know, Sam Albury, who is part of Living Out, I guess

42:21

I didn't articulate this, but he says that he struggles with same sex attraction.

42:27

OK. And that's still something he is struggling with. So it's still an ongoing thing, which is why he's been part of Living Out to try to encourage people who claim to have same sex attraction not to give into it.

42:40

Don't give into homosexual desire. But it doesn't mean what Living Out does.

42:46

Yeah. Living Living Out. So you're saying that you're same sex attracted. OK. But you're a celibate same sex attracted person.

42:54

You're not. OK. You're not indulging in those behaviors or those desires. OK. Make sense?

42:59

Yeah. So the problem with this is that what they're encouraging is sin. And the question

43:06

James is asking is why? Why is that sin and not merely temptation?

43:11

OK. The reason is because the desire has not been mortified. Living Out is actually encouraging the desire.

43:19

Right. Just as long as you don't play out that desire. Right. But the whole

43:24

Jesus talks about it's not just about the act.

43:30

It's about your heart and how you feel on the inside. Yes. And that's when he was expounding on it doesn't matter if you've not murdered anybody physically.

43:40

If you've even hated them or called them a fool, you are guilty of it because you've murdered them in your heart.

43:48

Absolutely. And so it's the same thing. It's the same. It's. Yeah. He talks about lust in that as well.

43:56

In Matthew 5. Yes. Where if you've even lusted after a person, it's the same as if you've committed adultery with them in your heart.

44:02

And isn't that being attracted? Now, yeah. And Sam Albury tries to clarify that.

44:07

OK. He tries to say a same sex attraction doesn't have to lead to lust. But the problem still remains when the attraction is there.

44:17

Like what are we talking about when we're saying attraction? And again, I clarified it as same sex attraction is homosexual desire.

44:24

And Sam Albury agreed with that. He agreed with the statement. And I said it must be mortified means you must put to death what is earthly in you.

44:34

Right. As Paul talks about in Colossians chapter three. And the first thing he lists is sexual immorality.

44:40

And this qualifies as sexual immorality. There is a desire that you have that is unnatural.

44:45

Now, let me let me distinguish this from lust that a man would have for a woman.

44:52

Well, a lust that he has for a woman is wrong. Let's say attraction. OK, OK. Let's say that a man who is married sees another woman who is attractive.

45:02

And there is a thought in his mind that that woman is attractive. There isn't anything there that is that is essentially sinful.

45:12

He could have a lustful thought, take it captive so that it does not turn to desire.

45:19

Second Corinthians ten five, take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. So he's disciplined enough to do that.

45:27

He doesn't dwell on the thought. Having the thought in the first place is sin. But then dwelling on it or sorry, having to say, yeah,

45:36

I went too far with that. Right. Having the thought in the first place is temptation. Right. Taking it captive, not dwelling on it.

45:44

So you can dwell on the thought and you like it. See, I like this thought that I'm having. I like the feeling that it gives me.

45:51

Right. So you're dwelling on the thought. That's lusting. And that becomes lust. Then now it's sin.

45:56

You've not even played it out. But it's still it's it's lust that you have for this other person.

46:02

And it's the same as if you've committed adultery with them in your heart. If you're not taking it captive, when you have the thought, if you're not disciplined, if you haven't disciplined your body in that way, as the

46:13

Apostle Paul talks about this, and your mind is part of your body, by the way. Paul says, I discipline my body so that I may not be found disqualified.

46:21

You have to be disciplined and you can be. You can overcome this desire.

46:27

Definitely. And be so disciplined in your thought life that you have the mind of Christ, which we're commanded to have

46:32

Philippians 2 .5. So when those kinds of thoughts pop into your head, you take them captive and they don't turn into lustful desire.

46:41

Here's here's the thing, though, about same sex attraction. You're already talking about something that is inherently unnatural.

46:50

And being unnatural, it is sinful because it is contrary to God's order in creation.

46:57

There is a certain degree that a man is going to have a an attraction to another woman because that's natural.

47:05

If men did not have attraction to women, then they wouldn't get married. Right. There wouldn't be propagating the species.

47:12

Right. Okay. To to put it into a rather textbook definition of the term.

47:19

I know that wasn't terribly romantic. Well, you know. I wanted to add to that, but it would be inappropriate.

47:26

Yes. So going back to we have the ability to take that captive and not sin, we have

47:38

Christ in us. And I believe that you said this in your sermon on Sunday, this past Sunday, that we have

47:46

Christ in us and Christ is the one the the Holy Spirit is the one who saved us from death to life.

47:54

And how are we to say that we are not capable when we have that we have

48:00

God in us? Living in us. If you have the Holy Spirit of God in you, don't you know that you have the power to take those thoughts captive and make it obedient to Christ?

48:11

The Holy Spirit has has given us that ability to do that. And in fact, First Corinthians 1013 says no temptation has overtaken you.

48:20

That is not common to man. God is faithful and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.

48:27

So we talked about earlier about how God will test us to produce a steadfastness in our faith.

48:33

Well, he is never going to let us be to be tempted beyond our ability to resist it.

48:39

Right. But with the temptation, he will also provide the way of escape that you may be able to endure it.

48:45

Turn and run. What the the person who struggles with using that word in quotes, the way that James presented it, the person who struggles with same sex attraction has a temptation that has that is an unnatural desire that they must master.

49:01

And with the Holy Spirit of God within them, they will overcome it and not ever have it again.

49:06

Right. And I truly believe that. I believe that too. The reason why a man has a desire for another man is because of his sinful fallen nature.

49:16

And the more and more depraved our culture is getting, the more and more regular or likely this is going to be to encounter a person who claims that they struggle with same sex attraction.

49:27

This is God turning the culture over to its own depravity. And we're seeing things get worse and worse, especially here in the month of June.

49:34

Oh, yeah. Because every June is Pride Month. Yeah. It used to be Dairy Month.

49:39

I wish it would go back to that. Let's go back to Dairy Month. But once again, the difference between a same sex attraction and an opposite sex attraction is the opposite sex attraction is a natural attraction.

49:53

The same sex attraction is unnatural. Right. The person who is having same sex desire must master it.

50:01

And with the Holy Spirit of God, we will be able to overcome those sinful desires and not have them anymore.

50:08

As Paul states in 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11, such were some of you, but you were washed.

50:16

You were sanctified. And this is part of sanctification. Growing in holiness, you will escape these even unnatural desires that have happened to a person because of our fallen nature, because of us being descended in the line of Adam.

50:31

That's why we have such sinful temptations. He was also asking why Tom Buck had called

50:38

Sam Albury brother. Why did he call Sam a brother? Based on the statements that we have heard

50:47

Sam Albury say about his faith, for the most part, we believe him to be

50:52

Orthodox, but he's just mixed up on this particular issue. And as long as he continues to say that he struggles with same sex attraction, he is unqualified to fill the role as a pastor the way that he's not a pastor.

51:07

He's an apologist with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. But nevertheless, a form of leadership, right?

51:15

Yeah. So as we have in 2 Thessalonians 3, and this is a section of scripture

51:22

I'll be talking about in the sermon this coming Sunday. All right. But the apostle

51:27

Paul says, if anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person and have nothing to do with him that he may be ashamed.

51:36

Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

51:41

So you're talking about even in the case that you have a person who needs to be put out from the church, you still shouldn't say of this person that they are basically condemned to hell.

51:52

Right. But you are warning them as a brother, Paul says. Who knows that Sam Albury might repent of this eventually and come to understand through sanctification that same sex attraction is wrong.

52:07

He may just be confused about the statement, what it means and how it applies and whether or not he actually has it, so on and so forth.

52:17

There have been occasions when I have had conversations with a person who claims to be same sex attracted.

52:22

And even over the course of the conversation, I could tell we might be using the same terms of not defining them the same way.

52:29

Oh, yeah, definitely. That may be the case with Sam. I don't know. I don't know for sure. But all to say that we don't have enough information to say

52:37

Sam's not a brother. Right. And I'm with Tom. And I don't think it's our place to say that Sam's not a brother.

52:44

I just don't think that he should be a pastor. Or in a leadership position. We're in a leadership position, right?

52:49

Yes. Since he's not technically a pastor anyway. But he has been. He did say that he's been a pastor before, but just now with RZIM.

52:57

Okay. That's not that's an apologist position. That's not a pastoral position. Gotcha. Well, thank you for your questions today.

53:04

And if you have any others, you can email them to when we understand the text at gmail .com. Let's pray and we'll close it out.

53:12

Heavenly Father, we thank you once again for the word that you have given to us that it may be our guide into every aspect of life, no matter where we are, where we're going, what we're doing, our situation or our circumstance.

53:25

Your word is there to guide us. We have these precepts laid down before us.

53:31

So we know what it means to walk in godliness. We know what it means to have a Christian worldview that the principles given to us in scripture, the commands and the law of Christ and so on.

53:43

We are looking through this lens at the world and we're looking for how we can speak the gospel into the world and how we can respond to our situations according to your word.

53:54

And so I pray that you give us wisdom that we not only have the knowledge, but even how to apply it.

54:01

And we might do this in a right way. I pray for everyone who has sent in a question today and that the answers provided for them from the scriptures would be able to equip them to know how to answer each person who asks us about the hope that is within us.

54:18

And we do this with gentleness and respect. May we desire lives of holiness. May we hate the garment that is stained by sin.

54:26

May we wear the righteous robes of Christ and desire to walk in righteousness, putting to death every sinful desire, taking every thought captive so that we may have the mind of Christ and help us to be patient with one another, not expecting too much of one another and also not thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to think.

54:46

For we were all sinners, children of wrath like the rest of mankind. But God was rich in mercy and saved us by the giving of his son and the preaching of his gospel.

54:56

We ask for a continued guidance on our lives as we go throughout our day. In Jesus name.

55:02

Amen. You started another movie for the dog?

56:13

He doesn't bark. What is he watching? Um, I don't remember.

56:21

Better not be something naughty. Let's hope. It does say a dog will return to his vomit in the

56:32

Bible. Such a gross. Can you hear me?

56:38

I think I think that verse, I think we're coming to that verse today on the show. Actually, there's a question about second

56:46

Peter. Nope. Awesome. Well, yeah, that yeah, that part. Vomit. Vomit. There won't be sound effects.

56:53

Oh, I'm so glad you don't have that keyboard ready. Right. My sound effects keyboard.

57:01

Yep. Oh, I'm breaking things. Don't kill it. I'm trying not to just I don't feel like leaning.

57:10

On the everlasting arms. Well, that I could do. No, I can't see. Oh, you can't see over that.

57:19

I'm short. Is that better? That's a little better. Not in the mic.

57:28

Is that better? A little bit. Oh, this isn't bringing up a new document.

57:37

Why am I not getting a new document? I have not touched your computer.

57:43

So your computer wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have touched your computer. I haven't opened up anything, but I have touched it.

57:52

Therefore, it is now full of storage. Yeah, right. There's probably 1800 tabs still open too.