Pastor David Uth of FBC Orlando Accuses Us of Lying. Did We?

Welcome to the program, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. This is a follow-up podcast.

I'm going to be interviewing Casey Butner. He is the pastor of Beulah Baptist Church in Winter Garden, Florida, just outside of Orlando. And I've interviewed Casey two or three times before. And so if this is new to you, maybe you're a new subscriber and you don't know what in the world we're talking about, then I will put down below in the description the links to our previous interviews and you can watch those and kind of get up to speed.

But Casey and I have talked in our previous interviews about the concerns, grave concerns, that we both have regarding First Baptist Church, Orlando, Florida. And they are openly accepting of homosexuals.

In fact, David Youth, the pastor, just a few months ago said that any healthy church must have LGBTQ people, transgendered people, sexually immoral people, and heretics to be healthy, to be a healthy church.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg. So, but we have, this has been a few months since we've done our previous, our last interview. And so there have been a number of developments since then. And so I want to talk with Casey and let you hear from him.

And we can talk about those things and how that we have heard from many, many people, both he and I, Casey and I both have, from current members of First Baptist Orlando, former members of First Baptist Orlando, and they affirm everything that we have said.

And so Casey, brother, it is good to have you. I hope you're doing well down there in sunny Florida. And thank you for coming back on the program.

Yes, sir. Good to talk with you again, Justin. It's good to be here in South Florida. So I'm looking forward to when you and Susan Heck come to our church here in December, so.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. December 10th through the 12th, is that right?

Yeah, sure is, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. And perhaps another special guest speaker will be available to come as well, whom you'd be pleased to preach alongside with. So we'll see if that availability falls into place.

So Joel Osteen accepted your invitation?

I think so. I'll let you call him.

Okay.

I'm not sure he'll take my call, but all right. Well, I look forward to that. All right. Well, Casey, so as I just said in the intro, we've already done a few of these, and you and I have talked about how First Baptist Orlando is baptizing homosexuals.

You've had a meeting with David Youth about this, trying to get to the bottom of it, giving him an opportunity to explain his position, explain what is really happening at the church. And so all that we discussed in the previous interview.

And so this is kind of a follow-up. You and I have both heard, even before the last video that we did, you and I, from our very first one we did, we began hearing from people. I saw comments from people in the comment section of the video that I did on First Orlando, saying that, yeah, what you're saying is true.

I'm a member of First Baptist Orlando. This is happening. You're right. But since then, here in the last couple of months, we've had a lot more feedback from folks. So I'll just pitch it to you and take it away.

However, what do you want to cover first?

Yeah, you know, I didn't know what to expect after our video from the first time, and was in much prayer and felt in a clear conscience that we had done what was right. We had followed the biblical procedures, had gone through Matthew 18, 15, and gone to them first privately, you know, with the spirit of an appeal and wanting to just talk it through.

So obviously, we've got all of those details in the prior video. And after that, some time went by. David Youth gave me a call. It was a voicemail, and I didn't recognize his number. So nevertheless, he simply apologized for the ambush and kind of went into that a little bit.

So I responded, and it went to a voicemail as well, and said, Brother David, you don't have to worry about offending me. Who am I? I'm just a blood-bought slave of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we will be held accountable for how we handle God's word and the people in the church.

So let's talk about everything that Justin and I have laid out in the video. Don't direct any attention towards me. Let's talk about what's being done there at First Orlando, and let's use the scriptures.

So that went to voicemail. To his credit, I guess, I haven't heard back to him, but his mother passed. He went to Arkansas and back, and so nevertheless, many weeks have gone by between now and then. So, you know, it is what it is.

I don't expect to hear from him. He did mention that he looked forward to the time where we could meet again, and perhaps talk some. So that is an open conversation, but I don't really expect it to, you know, have anything accomplished through the conversation.

It really seems that they've made a decision on the direction that they're going, and through the silence, you know, some folks would say you just hear, you know, crickets or whatnot, and with Justin, crickets are much louder, because there's just nothing here, except for they're just moving forward and continuing on.

So I haven't heard any change. Now, I gotta be honest with you. If some little old pastor out in the country or whatnot, we're not really in the country, it kind of feels like it, and yourself did a video about something that perhaps I was doing, and I was in the wrong, I believe that that would wake up my conscience.

I would fall on my knees and repent, and go to the people and say, folks, I've been given to a worldly philosophy. Please forgive me from the bottom of my heart. I am sorry. And then I would cry out to God not to strike me dead for these things, and be transparent.

There is such an opportunity right now for David Youth to be a leader in the SPC, and to demonstrate that this woke social justice direction is complete heresy, it's worldly, it's going with the worldly narrative.

And if he would speak up and say, listen, this is something that's happened in my own life, and I wanna be transparent, and I wanna be a leader for change, I think that it could be a great thing. But nevertheless, you hear nothing on that matter.

And nothing from Danny either. So, you know, David called, Danny didn't. That's kind of where it was after that.

Danny Dearmus being the Executive Associate Pastor,.

I believe.

So just for those people who don't know. Okay, so Casey, what have you been hearing since our last video went up? What is the feedback been? Have you received any criticism, or what has that been like?

So, like I said, I had no idea what to expect. And I have been inundated with phone calls and emails with nothing but gratitude and gratefulness for the clarity. I am so surprised at how many people who are confused and living in pain right now.

And Justin, when I get a phone call from someone who has been seeing this for years at First Orlando, their heart is just in turmoil. And it literally takes two or three hours for them just to unpack how they feel and what they've seen.

And I've got a lot of testimonies whom we can talk through, but for the most part, you've got a lot of folks who are really, really confused in how to move forward. They've got friends and family that are tied in with First Orlando, with leadership.

And it's a real situation. There's a lot of ministry that needs to be done. I can only trust the Lord that He'll utilize all of this pain for His good. And I look forward to seeing people rebound from this.

I'll give you one testimony, just to kind of get things rolling. One gentleman who got out of the army, came back and joined First Orlando and got married and had kids and everything, was married there at First Orlando, and was there for quite a while.

He left a couple of years ago, somewhere around there. And he kind of felt like what he had seen, that he couldn't really talk about because he didn't want to talk bad about a church, especially a pastor.

And so he really couldn't say to his friends and family why their family was leaving. And he felt silenced for the last couple of years. Him and his wife felt like they were living in a jail. And what an awkward situation to be in.

And so nevertheless, after our video posted, and he saw that, he emailed me right away and requested to meet in person. And he shared with me his personal experience there. And it just verifies everything that we said and more.

So even down to a racial reconciliation workshop that he and his wife attended. And in that, there were Stanley videos played. There was critical race theory tenets that were taught. They were accused as white people of being racist.

You know, he personally felt like that David and Danny don't have any accountability. I've had others say that there can be some pushback from plenty of folks there at First Orlando if they do. But this one in particular, you know, felt like our video was spot on and he had been there for a long time.

And he appreciated our warning everyone to kind of wake up and then it's time to move on. His personal observations were that the terminology is being changed slowly. And we use the words conditioning.

And he said that sin has been replaced with words like brokenness. And so rather than, you know, preaching against sin, brokenness is the idea. And he mentioned this, I thought it was theologically spot on that in doing that, you search depravity.

And so you're no longer addressing the depravity of man.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, it's sad.

And it's interesting, he said that they were accused of, you know, if you're white, you're racist. That's straight out of the social justice playbook, critical race theory playbook, intersectionality, straight out of that.

So if you're, of course, if you admit you're a racist, well, obviously you're a racist. But if you say, well, no, I'm not a racist. Ah, see, your denial proves you're a racist. So it's a lose-lose situation.

You literally cannot win for losing. So either way you go with it, you're a racist with CRT and intersectionality. So go ahead.

Yeah, exactly right. And along with this gentleman's firsthand testimony and in-person meeting with me, like I said, I've been inundated with emails and phone calls that simply verify everything that will be said.

Another testimony from a prior First Baptist Orlando meeting, this is what was said, and I quote, I don't regret informing you regarding the sin at First Baptist Orlando. I'm glad you guys did the video.

So one of the reasons my heart was initially stirred was because of this individual who I'm talking about, which is different from the one at the testimony I just mentioned. I was contacted by him and we went and met, and it was before our video, and I had just a slew of facts from this guy.

And I thought, this is insane. I know that what you were saying is real, but I gotta go see it firsthand. So that's the reason why I went to First Baptist Orlando while I was on a sabbatical, just to see for myself what he was saying was true.

And that was the case. And so now you've got one whom is a prior First Baptist Orlando informant, I guess you would say, who was saying everything that I shared with you and that you guys shared online is true, and I don't regret saying and letting you know all those things.

And in addition to all of the information that we shared already is a ton of pictures via like a Facebook connection that he didn't feel comfortable disclosing. And those are pictures of homosexual men in Bible study, being apart and all that kind of stuff.

And two married men engaged with the Bible studies at First Baptist Orlando, I guess life groups. And so nevertheless, perhaps this testimony with these two men is connected with the following testimony that I've received even just today I received a phone call and spoke with a prior homosexual.

And he had been a member of First Baptist Orlando since he was a child. He went through the school there at FBO and became a homosexual early in life, went to college, lived what he would call hell. Hell, that's what he described the homosexual lifestyle as, destructive.

And so nevertheless, after 20 plus years, he came back to First Baptist Orlando and Jim Henry welcomed him and Jim Henry loved him, but did not affirm his lifestyle.

Jim Henry being a former pastor.

Right.

Okay.

So Jim Henry did a great job with telling him the truth and leading him out of the lifestyle. And to his own testimony, he would say, I'm forever indebted to Jim Henry and the ministry there at First Baptist Orlando.

And I'm so grateful. And he has divorced his partner. He was married to another man. And in his own testimony, he said, Casey, I still wanna see my old partner saved. I still wanna see him come to Christ.

I don't hate him. So nevertheless, his testimony is this. He called his prior partner up and asked him about a salvation and it wasn't there. But yet he's been baptized at First Orlando and the leadership there, they know him and they know of his open lifestyle with multiple partners and he still was baptized.

So this is firsthand testimony and I can only hope that things are tightening up over there, that's optimistic. But nevertheless, he would say, how can I leave my ex-partner to Christ if he feels like he's already been saved and he has been affirmed and baptized there at First Orlando?

And so you see that there would have to be a lot of repentance and a lot of backtracking, a lot of undoing, a lot of work, a lot of one-on-one meetings from David and Danny for the damage that they've done.

I mean, incomprehensibly so. So you're saying this is someone from the inside, former homosexual, married to a man, he's genuinely saved now. And so he has joined the ranks of 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11, for such were some of you.

Praise God, he's joined those ranks, but his former partner, quote unquote, husband, which technically was, I mean, God defines marriage, not the state, but at any rate. So this other man is known to First Baptist Orlando, known to the pastors there, was baptized anyway, despite him living an open homosexual lifestyle, baptized anyway, and apparently has multiple partners, but they baptized him anyway.

That's the testimony.

Yeah, I mean, I'll speak for myself here, and so I won't put this on you, but if that is going on, and it is, at First Baptist Orlando, you can't undo that with the current leadership. You can't undo that with David Youth and Danny DeArmas, because they have proved themselves to be biblically unqualified to be in ministry.

If that's what the pastors are doing, they're not qualified to be pastors. And so their repentance would be shown by stepping down, and that's what repentance would look like from them, because they're not able to teach sound doctrine, they cannot refute those who contradict.

They have a woefully inadequate understanding of salvation, of regeneration, of the gospel, period. So anyway, I'll put that on me, but

We kind of covered that in the first video as well, in that they're disqualified, and it's just the facts of the matter that I agree with you, to be honest with you, and I think that you can probably hear the soberness in my voice.

It's a sad thing, the day that which we lived in, to see these types of things happening, but that's the truth of the matter. True repentance would be public because of this public sin.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you know, I wanna make sure, and I've always made sure that I do things biblically, and in 1 Timothy 5, verse 19, it says, do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

Well, we'll kind of work through this, but man, try 50, try 100, and I've literally been swamped with communication, and just overrun, and then in verse 20, it says, those who continue in sin rebuke in the presence of all, and that's verse 19 to verse 20.

For any of those who feel like that it was inappropriate for us to call out Danny and David publicly, we'll see when an elder sins publicly, he's to be rebuked in the presence of all, and get the rest of verse 20.

It's very important, so that the rest will also be fearful of sinning, and that's one of this prior homosexual's points, his testimony of being converted, and then now developing a healthy hatred for the lifestyle, and wants to see his homosexual friends coming out of the lifestyle.

He says this, he would say, those who are trying to come out of the lifestyle are incredibly vulnerable, and when they see homosexuality on display, aka serving at First Orlando, then they think that it's okay, and it's easy for them to slip back into the lifestyle, and so the demonstration of the affirmation there at First Orlando is literally causing that much pain, suffering, and sin, and so for them to continue to do these things, and not to say publicly, folks, we've been in error, we've had a few things out of place, we gotta repent, obviously they haven't even bridged that, but yet how they've been responded was rather distasteful, I guess.

Yeah.

I was surprised.

Yeah, you're talking about the sermon where he referenced our video, is that right?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'd have to, I don't have it in front of me, I don't remember exactly what Sunday that was, but that was a couple months ago, do you remember, two or three months ago?

Whenever we posted the last video, it was the Sunday after.

Sunday after, yeah, and he referenced this, he was very clearly talking about us, and he said that we told lie after lie after lie about First Baptist Orlando. Okay, so let's talk about that. If that's true, Casey, if you and I told lie after lie after lie about First Baptist Orlando and David Youth and Danny DeArmas, then you and I need to be working at Burger King.

Right.

We shouldn't be in ministry. But we didn't tell any lies, we had our facts straight, all of those facts have been confirmed in spades since then, over and over and over and over since then. So what would you have to say to what David Youth said about us?

Yeah, so obviously, again, it was a case for being inundated with texts and emails and phone calls when that was done, and part of living around here, I guess, and us all having mutual acquaintances. So I went and listened to the message, and he was speaking from Ephesians 4 .14, as a result, we are no longer to be children tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness and deceitful scheming.

So he would say, he kind of referenced us as being the crafty ones and the deceitful ones and deceitful scheming, and then called us liars. So nevertheless, I thought that was disingenuous, inaccurate, and inappropriate way to respond, because you and I are not preaching a sermon before people.

I'm not using people to step on somebody else. If anything, this is simply a call to righteousness and good conscience. You know, we want folks to be able to see what is true and continue to walk with the Lord Jesus Christ.

And if we have elders who are sinning publicly, and nobody calls them out, nobody's rebuking them, then there's a few things going on there. Number one, our personal calling into ministry should be in question, because we don't have the fortitude and the boldness to preach like a prophet in the Old Testament and to warn others like Ezekiel 33 calls us to be.

We're, first of all, to warn. John the Baptist, you know, preached repentance. Jesus affirmed his messages. Repentance is first. And so we've got to call people to repentance. This is primary. And if we're not able to rebuke those who contradict the scriptures, right in the text of Titus chapter one, right in the middle of qualified elders, then we're not worth our calling.

So nevertheless, it's a sad day there. And when he called us liars, I would just simply say, okay, let's go back through the video point for point for point. And I, and you, I know you, you would gladly say, please forgive me if I'm wrong on any point at all.

I will publicly say, I'm sorry, I've misspoken. And that has been my heart the entire time. If I have someone who calls me and shares with me facts, then I'm going to write it down. And brother, I would read it straight to you if I had anything other than verified testimonies.

I only have one thing to share with you by way of correction. And so let me look for that. So the question was, and this was so surprising, by the way, the correction came by way of a question. It said, why in the world would you guys call, or he actually was talking to me, call them out publicly?

Why would you do it publicly by name? And so I listened to about 30 minutes of grief and was very, very humble, very contrite. And then just simply said, well, in 2 Timothy chapter two, verse 17, Paul calls out gossip by name with Hymenaeus and Philetus.

And then in 2 Timothy 4 .10, he calls out Demas, who was a deserter. And then he called out by name, those who caused harm to others in the faith and that being Alexander in 2 Timothy 4 .14. And then he called out by name, those who deserted the faith in 2 Timothy 1 .15, that being Phygelus and Hermogenes.

It's hard to pronounce those names, but that's who they are. And then in 1 Timothy 1 .20, Paul calls out Hymenaeus and Alexander for shipwrecking their faith. And this is Paul being an example to Timothy and church discipline obviously is missing in our ecclesiology and how we do church by and large, not at our church.

We do church discipline. If a sheep has gone astray, then we go through Matthew 18 very clearly, very gently with the goal of restoration. And so nevertheless, I shared the scriptures, not stories. And then to my surprise, there was a complete U-turn in the conversation.

I feel like the individual was probably just sharing the hurt from the heart, but knew that it was right and it needed to be done. And so to be honest with you, we don't have even one iota of a correction from the last video.

And that to me is astounding.

I want that to, I want people to hear that. I want people, I want that to seek in with people. So after two, and I did one video myself, and then if memory serves me, at least we've got at least three videos on my YouTube channel dealing with this.

And I can honestly say with a crystal clear conscience before God, I have not had one person email me or call me or whatever and say, Justin, you are wrong. Here's why you're wrong. You're wrong. And in fact, here's why you're wrong.

Not one single person has done that. Now there's a guy who has a YouTube channel and he's put videos up. I don't know if you've seen them or not, but criticizing us saying that what, we lied about First Baptist Orlando.

No, we didn't. We have not lied. There's not one thing that we have said has been refuted. And if it had, I would absolutely own it. You would own it. So we've made very serious allegations against a very large, very prominent Southern Baptist church.

And nothing's been refuted.

Yeah.

And it's all of it. All of the feedback, 100 of the feedback has been confirmed. And then some.

In fact, I'll run through some more if you don't mind.

Yeah, sure, please.

So they've got a large private school and a testimony from a prior teacher at the First Academy there at First Baptist Orlando testified of seeing the same things. And in fact, over 10 years ago, when she started spotting the decline, the downgrade, I guess you could say, if you're a Charles Spurgeon fan.

Whitney Phipps, P-H-I-P-P-S, Whitley Phipps came and he was a guest speaker. And I guess he was sharing some critical race theory tenets on a Sunday morning. And that caused a lot of concern way back then.

So nevertheless, the teachers are definitely caught in a conundrum. If they see these things and whatnot, what are they to do? Another prior First Baptist Orlando member who is also connected with the Brazilian church there, a Spanish ministry.

I'm not sure if they have two different Spanish ministries or not. But nevertheless, they say the Brazilian families are leaving in the droves as well over this mess. So that's a testimony. I can't verify it, but that's what's been said.

And a prior member called again and said that he was baptized there. And now God's called him into the ministry and he is a pastor. He's moved on. I don't know where he's at, but he appreciates us standing strong.

Then another former homosexual called and testified to the same thing. Let's see, a pastor in Texas called, not Tom Buck, by the way. He knows people at First Baptist Orlando and was incredibly appreciative of the stance and the clarity because there's just a need.

These people know people there and they're concerned about their friends and family. Believe it or not, a member at First Baptist Woodstock called and man, his email was scathing towards First Orlando, but appreciative to us for standing up.

He said, I personally want to thank you for not compromising the word of God relative to critical race theory and the LGBTQ initiatives as being accepted by many of our Southern Baptist Convention churches.

I have just listened to you and Justin Peters about the heresy that has taken place at First Baptist Orlando. At the moment, I'm ashamed to even be identified with the SBC. It is apparent to me that the current leadership of the SBC is embracing both critical race theory and the LGBT agenda and initiatives.

They have already capitulated on women pastors. It also appears that the North American Mission Board is partnering with First Baptist Orlando for church plants or startups on the campus of University of Central Florida.

And that's true in many others. They've got other church plants as well. And this will only compound the issues with the SBC embracing what God calls an abomination and a perverted sin. So I can verify what he has said.

When someone sends this email and talks about women preachers at First Baptist Orlando, the last thing I'm gonna do is come on with you and say, yes, if I don't know for sure. So I did. I went and checked it out and just looked around and it's very true.

So I hear recently they've had a woman preach on Sunday morning named Kelly Mentor. She spoke on May the 1st, then Stacey Thacker on August the 18th at their church plant as well. Verizon West is a church plant that's pastored by Chris Ogden.

And he had Holly Rockefeller speak on May 22nd and then Stacey Thacker in August as well. And you and I both know that 1 Timothy 2, 12 says that I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man.

And if we trust God and believe in his words and we tremble at his word, I can't help but read Isaiah 66 too. Thus all these things came into being declares the Lord. But to this one, I will look to him who is humble and contrite of spirit and who trembles at my word.

Amen.

I must admit, I tremble representing God in his word every time I speak.

Yes.

I tremble at misrepresenting God and saying what is a slightly not true. I just cannot imagine. I would not be able to sleep Justin if I did one iota of a thing that was out of line with God's word. My conscience would just be shredded.

Yes.

My peace would be gone. I just, I can't even tell you. I mean, I would run to repentance. I would do everything that needed to be done to be right with God.

Yeah.

But to continuously to go down this road, obviously we differ with them theologically. Egalitarianism is a stance that David Youth clearly stands upon, which is not complimentarian. And that opens the door for women preachers and a lot of other things.

It opens the door for pragmatism. And once you allow this downgrade to start happening, really what you're doing is appealing to the people, the majority. You're kind of pulling the community to see what's popular.

And you're formulating your ministries and your messages based upon what you think the people wanna hear,.

What's popular.

You kind of get them in the door. And once you are on that hook and you're reacting to the culture, it's gonna sink you. And it's gonna take you to the very bottom of the culture, even down to accepting critical race theory, homosexuality, LGBT, because this is what our culture is hungry for.

And that is the road that they're on. And I'm just, I'm so, so surprised that with so many at First Baptist Orlando now being made aware of this, that there hasn't been just an onslaught of people to push back on this and to make it a clear statement from the leadership.

This is not who First Baptist Orlando is. We wanna make sure that everybody knows that we stand on the word of God. And I believe that they can. There's plenty of people still there who love the Lord and who know Christ and who value the inerrancy of God's word who can stand.

And if they say, we're not gonna stop it until, but here's the game. And this is another firsthand testimony. The game that's played is this. You call the office and request a meeting. You're a member of First Baptist Orlando, right?

Well, you may be granted a meeting. There's just only a chance. And then if you are granted a meeting, it's months out. And then after months go by, you get the runaround. And so that's how they intentionally delay and wear them out.

Now, to their credit, they have met with a lot of people since our video and have been in cleanup mode and have been trying to work hard to salvage, but it was the same story that they fed me. So many who met with David and Danny came back around and said, yep, you're right.

Everything that you said that they said to you, they said to me, same stories. And so that's how the game is played, which tells us that they've made their mind up. They're continuing in the direction that they're going and the die is cast.

They're not changing course.

Yeah, yeah.

No, and no, and they won't. I mean, they won't. Lacking a sovereign move of God's Holy Spirit on their hearts, they won't. But as I said a few minutes ago, okay, so these differences, we're not talking about whether you're pre-trib or mid-trib or was the date of the Exodus the 13th or the 15th century, or did Paul write Hebrews or did Luke write?

We're not talking about minor issues here. What we're talking about, go to the heart of the gospel, the heart of sin, the heart of the doctrine of man, the heart of the doctrine of God, our Christology, the atonement.

I mean, these are primary issues. First tier, primary issues. And so if they can't get these things right, I mean, that's not a church. First Baptist Orlando is not a church. It calls itself a church, but it's not a church by the biblical definition of the term.

It's not a church as how God defines a church.

Yeah, Ephesians chapter five, verse three says, but immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you.

Yeah.

Not even a hint of immorality should be named or spoken of, but much less characterized.

Right.

And you and I would add, whether it's homosexual or heterosexual, sin is not to be named among God's people. So, I mean, this is just stunning. And I'm looking at the notes you sent me before we started recording.

You say there's another testimony from someone at First Baptist Orlando who witnessed two homosexual men being baptized in the baptistry together.

Yeah.

So one of the men was baptized and what they promote there at First Orlando is that if you lead someone to Christ, you should come in the baptistry with them to support them. So oftentimes there's the pastor who was baptizing, the one being baptized, and then the support or the friend or whomever.

So oftentimes you'll have three or more people there at the same time in the baptismal waters. And, I mean, that's cool. But at the same time, if everybody, and this is the testimony, everybody knew that this was a couple, two men, a couple, and one being baptized.

A couple, a homosexual couple being baptized.

Both in the water.

There's no defense of that. This is, there is no defense. It is an indictment on the SBC that they haven't kicked this church out of the denomination. I don't even know why First Baptist Orlando wants to,.

Well, yeah, I do.

I just answered my own question in my own head because of the direction the SBC is going. But, I mean, 10, 20 years ago, they would have joined the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, which is the liberal.

They were too liberal for the SBC back after the conservative resurgence. And so they broke off. They formed their own little play party.

Yeah.

The liberals who didn't, who came out on the losing side of the conservative resurgence.

So.

I remember that. Or no, I remember reading about that. And that's surprising. You know, I'm from North Carolina and First Baptist Church of Winston-Salem, where I was born, now is pastored by a woman.

And that's a Cooperative Baptist Church. I remember thinking, oh, this kills me. But, you know, I heard today, I had another phone call come in and that Danny removed one of the homosexual couples from service.