True Biblical Masculinity & The Best Guy Trips To Take In The U.S. With Nate Stevens DMW#196

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exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between broadcasting from an undisclosed location dead men walking starts well hello everyone welcome back to another episode of dead men walking podcast

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I'm your host Greg Moore thanks for coming along on the ride thanks for going to dmwpodcast .com checking us out supporting the show we got merch there you can learn a little more about us following us on social media at deadmenwalkingpodcast .com

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except for Twitter X we are at real dmw podcast they wouldn't give me that logo and that handle and you know

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I was just talking to someone how my ADD kicks in and I go everything is the exact same on every single platform all other 12 platforms except for Twitter X so I don't know maybe we'll have to put in a call to Elon Musk or something and see if he can change that but guys in studio with me

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I have Nate Stevens Nate how are you I'm doing well how are you so I go to church with Nate at Christ the Word we got to know each other a little bit on a what was it about a five -day trip up to the

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I almost said Outer Banks because I just saw boundary waters northern Minnesota in between Canada and United States right there we were we were canoe partners that was fun wasn't it was that's it so just packing in packing out every night finding a you know an island that was a campsite in a canoe

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I think we did what do we do like 30 or 40 miles or more than that I don't know I think it was something like 40 miles something like 40 miles just canoeing for four or five days but it was cool it was fun we had eight guys total

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I think yep yeah who's a canoe yep two to two to a canoe and Nate and I were stuck with each other for better for worse yep

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I think we became pretty good friends over it it was fun I'd like to think so yeah so I wanted to have you in and and just we want to talk about like biblical masculinity what that's about we just had our builders conference at Christ the

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Word where we were talking about those type of things masculinity I was on a panel for navigating the manosphere and what that's all about and it seems to be a real real hot topic right now just because you're kind of seeing in the last five to ten years a big attack on masculinity in general right so then you kind of have like this

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Christian response you have the secular response with all those manosphere stuff but before we get into all that give us a couple minutes of like your bio and maybe your testimony just let people know where you're from what you're about cool

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I I grew up in the Toledo area okay I graduated from Bedford okay which is nearby here yeah we you're a lot

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I also make the joke we say undisclosed location but we immediately disclose where we're from so right yeah in Michigan there's a township

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Bedford Township which isn't far from Toledo Ohio right yeah yeah so we I grew up I have four siblings lived in Petersburg Michigan which is just real close to here sure

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I'm graduated from Bedford high school everyone thinks I'm homeschooled but it's not true

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I went to public school all the way I deny that you got that homeschool vibe I have the homeschool vibe it just is wait wait what is the homeschool vibe what do you think like give me some example socially awkward maybe so okay

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I mean that that's a stereotype it's not actually true I have plenty of homeschool friends that yeah that you would never guess we're homeschooled yeah well

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I was homeschooled and we homeschool and we still laugh at some of the joke you know maybe like the pants are a little too short because they're hand me down from the other kids because you really don't need the latest and greatest when your school room is in the kitchen or you know right the den or something right you're not trying to keep up with not trying to keep up right so yeah there's some anyway so went to public school and then what yeah and I would say that public school we

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I initially went to church Bridgepoint Church now it was first Baptist of temperance at the time and I was my both my parents are

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Christians both my grandparents on both sides were Christians so we were I was in church my whole life me and my siblings okay

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I grew up going to Iwana doing all the normal church stuff I would say

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I would say that the Lord did grab me from a young age yeah that I think the prayers of my grandparents the prayers of my parents were answered the

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Lord the Lord grabbed me when I was young five or six I couldn't tell you exactly when but I remember feeling the weight of my sin and the need for repentance and faith in Christ to be absolved of my sin yeah and that I think that I think took place around five or six years old and then over time it's gradual sanctification gradual learning but the biggest the biggest most influential thing that that happened to me was our youth camp

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I would say I think it was this was after seventh grade so like the end of the school year of seventh grade for me the pastor of the conference we were at it was like a week -long thing okay he had said if something to the effect that if you're going to be a genuine

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Christian you need to know the Bible you need to have read it you need you know then and I thought to myself like there's no reason like I do want to be a genuine

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Christian I do believe Jesus and so I was like well I need to I need to learn to read the scripture and to know it

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I have always struggled with reading and writing that is the all through school

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I was in special ed I was the you know okay not like the homeschool kids

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I was it just like an attention thing or was it dyslexia

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I'm formally diagnosed with dyslexia okay yeah that'll do it so reading was always difficult for me but one of the coping mechanisms mechanisms that I had was learning to listen well right and so even in all through college like I just would listen to my lectures

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I never really read the book right I mean I would reference it but I learned to listen and to remember the things that I listened to right and that being the case

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I asked my mom when I got home from this camp if she could get me a audio like a

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Bible on tape right okay and the equipment to listen to it and so she was enthusiastic about it was like yeah we're doing that we'll have it to you before next week so I by the end of the bed the end of that year so this is probably

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June or July I had read the whole Bible and realized it wasn't that hard to listen through the whole

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Bible and so I kept doing that year after year after year and then as I got more mature in the faith

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I started doing it more than that yeah so I by this point I've read it

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I don't know 24 25 times right over to cover oh that's awesome and I that I think the you know the

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Word of God says that the Word of the Lord is perfect to convert the soul I couldn't tell you the reference for that but yeah the word does affect you it does not return void and I think that that has been the number one thing that is that has made me into the

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Christian man I am today I think going to public school gave me a challenge that I probably would not have had if I was in a private or or homeschool which

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I would have actually enjoyed I think being homeschooled the freedom and the being able to learn at your own pace and that stuff but sure but I I think being in a public school setting made me have to learn to be a

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Christian in a in the world right like it wasn't it wasn't just in my mind it had to be actually in the things that I said and did the way that I treated my classmates and the way that I the way that I was acting yeah that makes sense totally yeah so in so now you are married how long you've been married we just had our sixth anniversary congratulations thank you

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I just had our 17th a few days ago Samantha and how many kids do you have we adopted a little girl and then we have two sons so our kids it's kind of strange but they all have nearly the same birthday my daughter she is

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April 24th and then my son is April 25th and my other son is April 26th oh wow so they're three days get them all done in a week all done in a week that's pretty crazy so April's a busy

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April's a busy birthday month yeah let's get that tax refund back I got to go buy some birthday presents yep yep so and then

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I have we also do foster care we have a 12 year old foster daughter as well okay that's with us for now how'd you get into that like adoption and foster care like what was the motive there we we wanted to have kids we knew that the

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Lord we both felt convicted and believed that the Lord had wanted us to to have children and my wife we we had went to get started

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I went to a doctor's appointment and learned that she had some levels that were off and then ended up having a she ended up having a tumor that needed that was found and needed radiation so we couldn't sure conceive safely without medical complications right well without yeah because the radiation and you know infants don't go too well together right so we just we had to wait on that and my wife was not super happy working she wanted to be being a mom she felt like she wasn't like doing the things she should have been doing sure menial job and which it was menial she was just working in a doctor's office and being yelled at by physicians all day yeah so which is funny because on a side note like third wave feminism will tell you like that's the highest you can achieve as a woman is to be in the workplace getting yelled at by your boss at an office job but yet raising children keeping a home you know basically rising up the next generation of believers is oh no that's that's looked down upon right when

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I I think and you know I my opinion and I think the Bible Bible's opinion is it's one of the highest callings that you can have right yeah yeah so we we wanted to do that and I told her like yes it's not good to just sit around and do nothing so I was like I want you

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I want you to work well before we have kids as soon as we have kids you don't need to work okay so we we were doing you know we ran into the medical complications and we had both

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I think because of our faith had a had a like a desire to care for the orphan you know is it in I think it's in James it says that true and undefiled religion is this to care for the orphan and the widow in their distress sure so we both wanted those are things we wanted to do and foster care seemed like that's how you do it in this in this day and age yeah so we we got we ended up getting licensed and getting our house ready and right before we weren't really looking to adopt

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Hazel initially but right like before we had gotten licensed

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Elizabeth Rethorn from church had called us and said hey

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I heard about this this young lady who looking to give her child up for adoption and you know her friend convinced her not to have an abortion and she's looking for a home yeah her daughter and so we we said sure we don't really know anything about this doing like private independent adoptions we didn't really have an agency we didn't have any of the normal things right all we had really to go on was what we found on the internet right you know and all the horror stories that they tell you yeah so we just kind of we kept our hearts close to our chest and went after it and it was kind of touch and go for a minute but then eventually everything you know got finalized yeah nine months later so you had so you adopted before you conceived biological yes children yep so hold on here because I want to just point something out so so unlike what the leftists and the pro -choice people tell us there's actually

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Christians out there that do care about children after birth right that do actually put their money where they put their money where their mouth is right and I know there's a lot of us

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I'm being facetious but here's one sitting here right now that I'm talking to it's just I hear that claim on the left all the time and it just drives me insane it's like dude has been funny to me is the conversations

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I've had with leftists at work that will say oh but you wouldn't you wouldn't adopt a kid you're like you wouldn't you wouldn't take care of them after they're bad

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Matt can't afford the actually here let me show you a photo of the little girl that I did that for yeah and let me show you how cute she is yeah you know because she is she's wonderful she's funny and she and this is this is

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I think related to our topic but like when we obey the Lord those are those in those areas that's where we're gonna find the most joy in life absolutely it's like when we when we put ourselves out there put ourselves at risk those that's where you're gonna find the most sanctification and the most life if you will yeah there's a there's an unexplainable joy in obedience fulfilled yes meaning you go like you said put yourself out there take a risk no

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I don't know financially emotionally mentally like this is a you know there's gonna be some risks involved it's gonna put maybe put a strain on the marriage and but then there's all these fruits from when we have an obedience to God but yeah let's get into the subject a little bit because that's what we're talking about if you want you can move you can move that down so it's not in your eyeline you know just move it over right yeah but yeah so we've been talking a lot over the last couple years on this podcast geez some of the hot topics are like Christian nationalism in masculinity like biblical masculinity like guys want to talk about that stuff because what we've seen it as much as I can tell is obviously we had like a second wave feminist movement in the 70s then you had like a pushback on masculinity into the 90s and early 2000s it really started ramping up against males specifically and on the last five years we have toxic masculinity you know if you're a straight white male you're you're basically from the pit of hell itself and there's all this kind of intersectionality and especially attacks on masculinity and with that we've saw saw some people rise up within the

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Christian community and try to combat that and go well no this is what biblical masculinity is honestly

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I think a lot of the Christian national mark argument is rooted in that kind of masculinity movement as well too you've seen obviously the raise a rise of like the

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Andrew Tate's and the Joe Rogan's and the Jordan Peterson's talking about make your bed be a man man up hustle culture is another part of that so I just want to sit down with you as someone as like I said we spent a week out in the wilderness together and you were our go -to survival guy like what do we need for a fire what do we need for food like you just kind of have this probably a little bit like me but maybe you're a little bit more where I could probably throw you out in you know in the woods somewhere and go hey you got 30 days come pick come pick you up and you pick you up and you'd have a shelter you're probably grilling a squirrel or something like you know what

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I mean and that's a form of masculinity we have in our heads I don't know if that's what we're gonna talk about here today but but I think that's one part of like providing having wisdom being able to you know help others survive and in all the all that stuff so I kind of want to talk about that as a whole

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I know we don't have a whole lot of time but maybe we start there what is what is the view of masculinity within the

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Christian Church do you think and do you think it's skewed not skewed or maybe not the biblical view but what do you think when you say masculinity to the average

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Christian what are we talking about I think most Christians think that it's that it that they're most

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Christians are like the culture yeah they're just like a half a step behind yeah and I think one of the reasons

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I'm brought up earlier is bringing you know bringing the scripture into it is because I think we need we need to have that be our foundation for where we where we how we define what masculinity is yeah so I think

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I think the church isn't really different from the culture in America I think the church thinks that that masculinity is doing well in sports you know maybe having money right that and that's a that's a huge thing in the church having a beautiful wife having a beautiful house those are the things those are the things that so material stuff yeah it's it's it's just materialism and I'm trying to find some quotes here that I found on masculinity which of course

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I can't find it right now as you're talking but oh there's some excuse me there geez there's some great quotes like Doug Wilson has one here it says masculinity is the glad assumption of sacrificial responsibility right

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I like that one yeah I do too that actually is probably I was about to quote that yeah you know

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Apostle Paul be watchful stand firm in the faith act like men be strong so there is like a masculine part of that where we're talking about strength which

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I think sometimes gets maybe overdone a little bit but and we'll touch on that but there's one by Spurgeon and Chesterton that I both like GK Chesterton said the real the really great man is the man who makes every man feel great hmm which kind of speaks to also having that leadership quality of not only bringing everyone along but support which we don't talk to too much about in masculinity and then the yeah here here's the where's the

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Spurgeon one I don't want to get it wrong so I want to look it up a vigorous temper is not altogether an evil men who are easy as an old shoe or generally of little worth mm -hmm and that's

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Charles Spurgeon so you got this wide range too I think of masculinity to wear and tell me what you think about this because I've seen it go too far on both sides of the pendulum right we take we take the

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Bible and we kind of instead of it being displayed moderately in our life we kind of do extreme so for the last like 30 or 40 years we've really feminized

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Church I don't know what your experience have been in like non -denominational or charismatic churches or things like that but like all the worship songs are like Jesus is my boyfriend right all that all the sermons are you know are mostly feminized towards women and emotional and love and connection and there's really not too much talk about men being providers or being the leaders in their home so we had this feminization of Western Church that I think followed the first second and now third wave of feminism because like you said the church always seems to be just a little in step with culture which is backwards

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I think culture should be bowing to Christ I don't think Christ bows to this culture and then

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I've also seen now in the last five years it's swing way the other way and it's like all about masculinity all about strength and leadership and you know you're the leader in your home and you make the ultimate decision and you know we saw this with Ben Shapiro even in politics we're like facts don't care about your feelings it's all logic and in planning and strategy so that's part of masculinity as well but I think both of those are like polar they're like on the far ends right yeah they're on they're on the outskirts because you always hear you know wife submit to your husband's but we never really want to focus on the second part of that which is in husbands love your wife like Christ love the church laying down your life right for for her so it's this weird thing where you go oh masculinity is like yes it's strength that's provision it's leadership but there's also you go to like Proverbs and Ecclesiastes and it talks about being willing to admit when you're wrong listening to wise counsel being able to go to someone in humbleness and being humbled and what almost feels like to the really pro masculine crowd is like a weakness but in fact the

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Bible says those things are strengths right so it's just like weird thing you don't I mean it really is it really is a strength to be able to admit your faults

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Oh 100 % to be able to to recognize when you're wrong and repent and turn from that that gives you a large advantage over over those who won't do it yeah because you can then fix the problem yeah in yourself that's preventing you from doing the things that you need to do yeah oh for sure now for me it's it's probably one of the hardest things that the

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Lord has been sanctifying me on in in my life is just being able to admit that I'm wrong quickly

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I've been getting better to where I think about you know my first reaction is like no no I'm right about that one of the reasons is and I joke with my wife

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I'm like I'll quit being stubborn when I quit being right like I feel like there's just a lot of things where I look at it

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I analyze and I think about it I go and I make a kind of decision read between the lines and then a year later six months later five years ago oh wow

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I was proved right on that right and I've seen that throughout my life now whether you call that wisdom or discernment or I don't know some of my charismatic friends are called a gift a spiritual gift or something right it's one of those things where it's hard for me to then right off the bat say no

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I'm wrong the the Lord has really worked on me to where I can do that quicker especially within my my marriage right to where our wives are probably if they're walking in submission and they're walking in the grace of God they're probably right more often than they're wrong about our attitudes or our decisions right they're like a full length mirror to your character absolutely

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I see everything yeah and so you know so I joke now

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I said I've got it down to about 24 hours where I might be stubborn and I go pray about it and then

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I talked to my wife okay yeah you're right and it's it's also because she's been proven true so many times she'll say something like now do you think that's something we should be doing as a family you know oh yeah let's do this

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I got this great idea because I trust you take it before the Lord and if he says that that's what we're supposed to do then we'll do it and it gets me every time because there's something about their submission that yes that there's a strength in that right because then she knows

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I'm accountable to the Lord for this and then I go before Lord I go yeah this is just something I want to do because I'm off with some half -cock new idea right you know what

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I mean yep so like you said like being able to admit when you're wrong or ask for help there's actually like a quiet strength in that which

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I think we've kind of lost in some of this biblical masculinity bravado yeah and because I'm all for that other stuff like yeah let's go out like you know it's something like right now we're in hunting season in Michigan Ohio yeah

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I go to sleep at night dreaming about jumping out of a tree on to like a deer or a bear and stabbing it and killing it with a knife you know

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I went from gun to compound bow to longbow to now it's like now I just want to take one with a like a bowie knife yes yeah

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I would love to do it with my every woman listening out there's like you're an idiot every guy is going yeah

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I mentioned that yeah my where I'm at now is I'd love to kill a deer with my concealed carry gun

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I just the practical I could use that this pea -shooter to kill a deer

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I'll tell you what if you're accurate enough and you're close enough you can take out a deer with a with a 22 or a 9 mil or 45 for sure yeah you have to be accurate yeah you know you'd have to hit him in the right spot and I do take pride in accurate shots

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I don't want you know my my animals don't suffer before I eat them so yeah but so I'm all for that that's side of it like all the strength and the leadership and like yeah be able to do something you know know something know a craft like figure stuff out having those real -world skills

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Proverbs says see a man who is who is skilled in his work and he will not stand before obscure men yeah there you go he will stand before Kings yeah absolutely so we're all for that but then it also has to be coupled with kind of the the quiet strength that we're talking about that a lot of guys don't want to really talk about which is like I said humbleness introspect like what did

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I do wrong in that situation maybe I should have done something different like there's a really there's something really strong about that side of it too right because when we hear submit wife submit and husbands lay down your life

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I think most guys in their mind get this thing of like yeah I would die for my wife like we would rather we would rather physically die take a bullet for our wife then just go instead of going yes yes wife you are correct or I was wrong so so in that kind of that I think leads me into what we've what

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I've been dealing with a lot with guys that I minister to or guys that you know that are in my life friends whatever I do a

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Bible study once a week most throughout the year okay and so the guys the guys that we that we you know that I'm with in that study like the issues that we run into or like how do we act as it's like how do we act as men what was it you just said a second ago

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I lost my completely lost my train of thought that's okay like we were talking about like them the mass like the masculine and then like kind of the underbelly of masculinity those two things kind of being you know part of a format full godly man but I think both of those extremes are focused on too much instead of being put together to make a complete man of God which

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I think the Bible talks about right it talks about repentance it talks about introspection it talks about being humble but it also talks about leading men to war and providing and all those things too so I think it's this weird thing where when you we get on the extremes of either two sides of anything it becomes unbalanced right

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I don't know if that's yeah I lost it I think it's like we have to be willing to like you're talking about laying down your life oh yeah like you have to be willing to give up your pleasure sure it's not just like giving up your life and taking a bullet for your wife right it's how about you know and like can you can you give up your evenings yeah before it say but we say for a man who's not married yet I like one of the things we say to them all the time is can you give up your evenings for your wife yes you know future wife that you will have now and work hard and save up money so that when you guys get married you're not saddled with a bunch of debt right can you right now give up your evenings give up your early mornings so that you can your weekends yet your weekend so that you can build your skill so that you can better provide for your family when that time comes yeah it's good and you know everyone everyone says oh you know

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I'll you know I'd go to war for my wife I would you know I would I would do all these bravado things

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I'll provide for her yeah but then they're still playing video games they're still they're still like addicted to you know watch a

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Netflix for right two hours and in an evening like or it's alcohol or it's there you know they'd rather spend time with their friends hang out with the boys yeah right well you know the funny thing is too is then when it gets really nuanced is when you start to replace the duties of being a man or a husband or a father with things that are good but not godly that's where it really gets crazy where it's like well

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I'm out you know whatever cleaning up the yard and raking the leaves is something as trivial as that right which takes two hours but instead biblically

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God is calling you to care for your wife and your children at that time but for you you go you know

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I've done this myself right I don't want to I don't want to deal with my child right now right discipline this this discipline the child me crazy you know talk to your wife about her day or an issue that she has and you go well no

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I'm doing something good I'm maintaining the home I'm raking the leaves or whatever it is you know gardening what something outside and it's enjoyable anyway because you're in God's creation but you're going but that's not sacrificing you're still doing what you want to do just by rationalizing another good act that's not necessarily godly and that's where I see where people go oh you're just being you're nitpicking but no a true sacrifice laying down your life for your wife is what you said not doing the desire or the thing

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I want to do and literally sacrificing your wants and desires right to say I need to do what the right thing is for my wife the biblical thing the man the masculine thing right it's like it's like for me my my father -in -law

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I'd never met him unfortunately he passed a few months before I met my wife and I think about like it would be real easy for me to go and spend a bunch of money on motorcycles or on guns guns would be more my speed but I do

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I like to spend a bunch of money on those things when maybe I should be like spending either my time or and over my money on things that help yeah mean my my widowed mother -in -law right and like so long as she's willing to accept the help obviously but there's you know there there there are things that I would rather be doing then like she asked me to help her build this like window seat thing and there are things

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I would rather do then build this window seat because it's gonna take me twice as long as I think it's gonna take me and it's probably gonna be frustrating yeah and you know there's problems that she doesn't see but expects me to overcome right you know and that's fine are you talking about your wife or your mother my mother -in -law yeah yeah and and that's like it's fine

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I told her out we're gonna do it we're gonna get it done yeah it's gonna be fine but that's the sort of thing that like isn't comfortable it's not something

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I'd rather be doing actually I'd rather be working on like what you might call building my empire like I'd rather be working on things that are going to like build our investments things that are you know because I work

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I work three 12 -hour shifts a week and then I have another three three days each week that I can dedicate to doing whatever

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I want yeah and for me like being a biblical man being a masculine man means taking responsibility for my mother -in -law right even though do

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I have to know she has money she could hire someone yeah you know she she could certainly afford it but it would not be honoring to her if I just let her afford everything yeah even if she wanted to afford everything and pay for everything like there's a certain aspect of taking responsibility for the for others that I think is true masculinity it's laying your life down for others taking responsibility for them you know and that includes providing that that certainly includes like you know we like I love camping right yeah it was so much fun going to the

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Boundary Waters I'm like already planning to go there again right and I like I enjoy those things and those things are perfectly fine to enjoy as long as they're kept in their proper realm as long as they're kept the priorities in order and I think like for me

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I try to carve out time yeah for those things but to include others yeah and and something we've been doing my brothers and I have been doing over the last probably five to ten years

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I don't I couldn't even tell you how long we've been doing it but we've been in the springtime we set aside a good four -day weekend and we go on a camping trip like backpacking canoeing whatever with we always take my nephews yeah we will be taking my son when sons when they're old enough yeah they have to be potty trained that's the rule and then like last year last year this last spring rather I took

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I took a couple guys from our small group the boys from my small group yeah and you know got to spend more time with them and take responsibility for them even if it's just a weekend right you know

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I was able to teach them a lot of things we taught them how to how to operate a canoe you know you get you get tipped over to canoe how do you how do you and your brother flopping around in the middle of a lake with a sunken canoe how do you get back in it how do you get the water out of it how do you yeah how do you get back to shore yeah you know maybe you have a mile a mile paddle yeah you can't you can't paddle a sunken canoe for a mile without getting the water out yeah this isn't gonna happen it's it's pretty crazy because there's kind of like stages to that too

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I look at it and say like even like like maturity in masculinity it's one

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I think the very first part is realizing that all the bravado stuff is kind of the fun easy stuff the the tough guy

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I shoot guns I go camping I can go hunting for my own food look at those are all that's great and you can be masculine in that but that's that's kind of the easy fun stuff the hard stuff like we're talking about is the laying down your life having responsibility all those things

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I think that extends into and you just touched on it is then you get to a point to where let's say you're a single guy you get married you're in marriage for a little bit

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I think the next step after that is if you are not discipling and mentoring right then you've stalled even within a biblical you could be married kids great wife great family whatever but if you are not then mentoring the next generation of young men or discipling them

36:20

I think that's a lot of places where even a lot of guys that have it right on you know those first three points right might fail in the fourth point and then go well

36:32

I'm discipling my my own biological son let's say okay well that's the bare minimum you're required to do that biblically it also tells us to go out disciple each other in nations right right so well oh good and that's just it with biblical masculinity it's like how much how much of your self time are you willing to sacrifice for others yeah you know how much of you how much of your self time and because some some of my self time is me playing with my kids and doing what doing my duty yeah for my for my children but it's like how much of my self time am

37:11

I am I implementing for you know the the 20 -something man who who has has no father or has a father who never taught him right to do things and you know it's like you might like I like I think of this as being like how much time am

37:33

I spending in my in a given month helping him change his oil or teaching him how to change his oil right or just being available for you know like having them for dinner and being available to answer questions yeah you know and being being a father to other men yeah even if they're older than you it doesn't matter it's talking we're talking about like being spiritually spiritual fathers and spiritual mothers and you know that's yeah that's

38:04

Christianity is is really enveloped in fatherhood and motherhood and sometimes

38:10

I think as guys as you get older too you kind of acquire this knowledge and then you forget that there's other and I'm saying maybe older to younger you forget that you've acquired this knowledge and it's maybe you've known it for so long or you've done it a few times to where you think it's just kind of all everyone knows that but there's a younger generation out there

38:28

I just had a example where a young guy came to me and was talking about starting a business like oh

38:33

I just filing out I'll see you do this it's how you set up your tags he goes I don't know how to do any of that I went oh

38:38

I've done that quite a few times right you know and I'm sure you've done something like that you have investments and things and sat down and within about you know two hours we had the whole thing set up and he goes oh my gosh

38:51

I'd have been it hasn't been two weeks of me trying to figure out actually took me two weeks right the first time right yeah me too right but now so now

38:58

I have a streamlined way to pass on to a young man who wants to build something start a business you go okay well let me help you like I've already been through that that's what we should be doing and it's it's a big thing for me where I'm at in my life at 42 to where I'm looking at even some guys in Christ the

39:14

Word I'll sit down 60 70 80 years old I sit down and go okay tell me all the mistakes you made from the time you were 40 until 80 because I don't want to make those same mistakes so it's this weird thing where discipleship and mentorship never ends right your entire life it's just at different stages right did you know did you know dr.

39:32

Forney I met him a few times before he passed but I mean not as well as most people did at church so this guy is kind of responsible for me in a lot of ways because he introduced my parents to each other like he was good friends with my grant with my grandparents yeah like he asked my grandpa for advice when at least this is how the story goes

39:53

I don't know all that I wasn't there but he asked my my grandpa for advice about marrying a much younger woman because my grandpa had done that okay my step -grandma after my mom's mom had passed is like 19 years younger than my grandpa okay and so you know

40:11

I had known dr. Forney for a long time and one of the things one of the things he told me is that you should always be discipling someone and being discipled by someone yeah that it's it's you should always have something like that yeah in in your life yeah

40:31

I've said that for years and I don't know I don't think it's a new concept but it's very wise I would say always be discipling being discipled and then always have people around you that are kind of your peers as well right maybe same age same parts in life right right so you have the generation coming up behind you you have the generation in front of you that's already done it and then you also should be around peers as well that are kind of in the same spot maybe kids around the same age kind of doing the same things in life because there's value in that too sometimes you can't go to someone you know

41:03

I'm not gonna go to a 65 year old and go you know what are you doing about social media stuff with kids who are teenagers like what are you talking about my kids are teenagers we'd even have internet

41:12

I can't go to a 19 year old guy and go oh yeah I need to talk to you about issues

41:17

I'm having with a 13 year old right it's like it doesn't work you got to have like all three groups and stages of life and right and I think that's

41:26

I mean well that's also prop that's you know Proverbs talks about having you know many counselors around abundance of counselors and all these things right and it's wise to do that but yeah

41:37

I think I think there's a lot of like you're saying there's a lot of aspects to masculinity I think if we if anyone listening took one thing away from what

41:45

I'm saying is biblical masculinity needs to be the full balanced masculinity that the

41:53

Bible talks about yes I'm all for the you know like I said the provider and the right and the being masculine and in taking care of leadership and all that but there's also a masculine quality in meekness in kindness in joyfulness making it's taking responsibility yeah for others you know in a whether you're actually their father or not yeah taking responsibility for others and it's like all the other things if you start doing that yeah you start thinking about it that way and taking responsibility you will start to do all the other masculine things will flow out of that right oh that's good point

42:36

I found I found that like when I when I got married my drive at work went up my ability to do my job increased yeah when when we initially took hazel and you know started that adoption process like I got better at my job right because and it's like in the reason is because it stopped being an option to watch more

43:06

Netflix right stopped being an option and and like these other things kind of fell away more so it's like it wasn't as much as me fighting it oh you know

43:15

I fought my sin and overcame it it was just that because I was being faithful and in taking on this little girl and taking on a wife and taking on a household and starting to build in those ways yeah the

43:28

Lord removed those other temptations he removed the laziness because it and and I've found to with like with each successive kid it's been easier for me to get up in the morning right it's been easier for me to to go to work and to work hard yeah because and maybe it's just you might say because there's a purpose for it or something

43:48

I don't really know yeah what the reason is but that it has been my experience yeah no it's pretty crazy because like responsibility forces the the kind of forces the sanctification it forces sanctification it actually forces the the godly masculine personalities that is in every person whether they're a believer or not to use those that's why even responsibility is good for an unbeliever it's like a common grace of God it is right you can have an unbeliever that that you know whatever he can even thumb his nose at God and atheists there is no

44:23

God but if but if he takes on responsibility has work ethic does these biblical principles he can benefit in life from the common graces of God just by just by living by biblical principles without even knowing it right you know a lot of unbelievers that are successful in business successful in life have families and you go in a man of fear like a lot of those guys are successful in their you know their

44:47

YouTube channels or their their investments and all those things they're successful because they work hard at it yeah like they didn't get successful because they worked you know only a few hours a day they got successful because they hustled yeah and and there is an aspect of hustling you know that is biblical masculinity right absolutely that aspect is not and I think that's where like that aspect is not biblical masculinity and as a whole it's only maybe a part it's one little part of it and then

45:19

I think in the secular world it's one part kind of magnifying and blown out of proportion without without the well proportion without the proportionality or the priorities that actually make for biblical masculinity right because biblical masculinity might look very similar in a lot of ways in certain ways but it's gonna have its priorities in order like yeah you know it is masculine to make money it's master be good at your job and and to you know be successful and bring in bring in the you know bring home the bacon yeah but it's not masculine to do that at the expense of your children right and and you might even say the same thing about like about you know popular pastors and teachers like there there's a reason why

46:07

Paul in in Timothy Titus give for as as a qualification for elders that their children must believe yeah and that their household must be in order yeah and in the reason is because you can have all this good theological head knowledge yeah but if you failed at taking responsibility for your own household right you haven't learned what you needed to learn not only that but if you can't lead your immediate household and pass on that knowledge and teach properly how are you going to do that in in a in a body of sheep as a shepherd or an elder right

46:46

I mean that's what I really get out of it to the four five six seven people in your household you can't even you don't even have enough

46:54

I don't know whether it's either living by example or teaching ability or anything like that to allow them to understand how they should live before God there's no way you're gonna be able to do that in a right congregation and your your children are like I mentioned our wives being a full -length mirror to you know kids are two kids yes kids are a little mini me they're they're doing all like my children do my sins oh yeah even even my foster kid does does my sin yeah like I occasionally will see her have an outburst of anger and say something and I'm like oh you learned that from me yeah

47:33

I taught you that and that that sends shivers down my spine because the fear of the

47:40

Lord is the beginning of wisdom yeah and it's like if I taught that kid the sin whoa to me yeah whoa to me for doing for doing that well you know what's crazy though it's also it's also a grace of God though because I see that and I've had that experience where my daughter might say something and I go oh geez that's oh wait that's me right am

48:02

I am I that put fill in the blank right right when I talk that way or respond that way she's learning it from me but like you said it's a mirror it's a reflection but but a man with discernment

48:13

I think this goes to biblical masculinity as well doesn't go sees that and corrects it and goes okay

48:19

I've seen my own sin now I repent of it and now I do better on that right and I'd and confess it to your children confess it yeah like there yeah we've done that too oftentimes when

48:30

I have to say I have to say to one of my children you know I did this wrong

48:36

I'm sorry I'm sorry that I disciplined you for this this is this you know this is something

48:42

I want you not to do yeah but I recognize that it's something that I have taught you yeah

48:48

I have done and I think if we if we have to be honest about our sin we have to put it out there we have to confess it you know it's is

48:59

I think it's in first John it says it says if but if you confess your sins he is faithful and just to forgive you of your sins and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness yeah so God God we confess we be obedient in our confession yeah and then it

49:18

God cleanses us from our unrighteousness yeah no that's good it's like if we're gonna be genuine

49:27

Christians if we're gonna be genuine Christian men the very first thing we need to do is we need to know the

49:34

Word of God we need to apply it to our lives we need to repent and most importantly and maybe

49:44

I can't say most importantly but we we have to obey

49:49

Jesus said if you love me obey my commandments yeah and obedience obedience is just it's just faith yeah like me being gentle with my wife is having faith in Jesus and if you don't and this is this is the concept that we talk about a lot in our in our

50:13

Bible study on Tuesday is like if you don't if you don't obey

50:19

God you do not believe God sure like the fear of the

50:24

Lord is a beginning of wisdom if we if we as fathers as brothers if we obey

50:31

God that means we believe him we take him at his word we believe that that that like that his judgment is coming yeah and that we will stand before his judgment seat yeah and we will every every idle word will be brought to account and that ought that ought to terrify us and drive us to obey and to be faithful yeah that's good man yeah yeah

51:04

I've edited out all these coughs man I'm coming down with something I'm glad we're sitting a few feet apart no that's good man all right so let's wrap it up here so if we have a final word for any guy listening right now

51:16

I would probably say my final word would be something I stated earlier which is when we're looking at biblical masculinity let's make sure it is the the full aspect of that right not the world's version not the extreme maybe fundamental or Christian version

51:35

I say Christian meaning you've got all kinds of different types of masculinity out there but a full biblical and I always tell people look at 31 days in most months 31

51:45

Proverbs not a coincidence I read a proverb every morning or at night before I go to bed proverb a day will get you right because there's so many so much words of wisdom in there a lot of it can be applied to masculinity yes we want to be strong leaders tough providers but we also want to be meek gentle kind forgiving able to admit when we're wrong able to lay down our lives be sacrificial all those things you mentioned as well so that's like this complete view of masculinity which

52:16

I believe those things I mentioned in the latter are quite strength as well too so that'd be kind of my final word if anyone out there listening what would you kind of give them in a few sentences kind of are we on the same page or yeah you want to add something to that yeah

52:31

I would you know it's like I was just saying we must we must obey him yeah if you if you do not obey him evaluate yourself look at your fruits

52:41

Jesus says that that you will know it's a tree by its fruit like if you have never shared the gospel with someone you do not believe

52:50

Jesus right if you if you are not taking responsibility and if you know and and if you're like sitting on the quad on the couch five six nights a week watching four or five episodes of whatever

53:05

TV show right you do not believe Jesus if you are not controlling your eyes if you are not repenting of your lust yeah you do not believe

53:17

Jesus and you are not a Christian and you need to repent so actions speak louder than words like our actions show us who we are yeah and it's you know our fruit the fruit of our lives show us who we are yeah and so evaluate it and pray that the

53:32

Lord gives you good fruit cool because if he says if you abide in me and my word abides in you you will bear much fruit yeah no that's good yeah not exactly a direct quote because I don't have it in front of me but right a good paraphrase yeah the message version no it's the the passion version it's the

53:56

NSV yeah it's deep ways yeah and SV all right cool before we get out here though I do want to ask you and you can share with the listeners too because I know you're big outdoors guys so am

54:08

I you go all over the place you didn't know I was gonna ask you this but what are like your top three places that you've ever traveled to outdoors like whether it's a camping trip hunting trip you know exploring the outdoors what are the top three if you could think of about all the place you've been cuz

54:25

I know you've been all over I'll Royals probably number one okay on National Park that's up in Lake Superior kind of off the coast of Canada but it's a

54:33

United States National Park yeah say it's the least visited sure I spent 11 days with my brother -in -law before he was my brother -in -law we went up there okay hired a bush pilot he flew us in no way it's up on the other side it was it was pretty cool how did you guys just bring everything with you and just yep we go in a tent or a backpack to me we used hammocks but we walked across the island basically it's it's pretty big it's like 60 some miles long okay and we the pilot picked us up on the other end 11 days later

55:07

Wow so what happens if you have like a medical emergency you have a sat phone or do you just know it just didn't you're just SOL did you did you have any type of cell phone service up there or no no wow so it was just 11 days in the wilderness didn't even bring my cell phone that's awesome

55:22

I left it I left it in my car okay that's a pretty cool and what's another one that you really enjoy and the

55:27

Boundary Waters is cool Boundary Waters is really really cool kind of the same area it's similar yeah yeah they're actually not that far from each other yeah and then we've

55:37

I've gone I've gone down a bunch in the Red River Gorge okay

55:42

I the Red River Gorge isn't that big remind me where that's in Kentucky Kentucky okay

55:48

I think near Lexington I'm remembering correctly yeah but I've taken guys there a bunch okay is it a river it's yeah there's a river that flows through it it's a big

56:02

I believe it's a state park or most of its state park but some of its National Park okay there's it's a big rock climbing destination there's it's basically mountains there's big caves there's trails that go all over the place very cool my wife and I went there last last year for our anniversary and she she and I walked for like two days and didn't see a soul

56:29

Wow and it was like peak colors the the trees this was fall time we got married in October so yeah oh that's probably gorgeous it was awesome so you like remote spots don't you

56:40

I I do like being a far away all right those are those are probably my favorite places to go we always go to the

56:48

UP every summer but usually we rent a cabin when we're up there yeah but still gorgeous up there too there is some good backpacking there it's not as remote as I'd like to be but yeah cool well hey

56:58

Nate thanks for coming on the podcast thanks for sitting down with us talking about these things gonna have to have you back and just maybe we just do an outdoor show too because we got a lot of listeners that do a lot of stuff like we do we camp we hunt we like to travel do adventure stuff and I know you take guy like you said you take guys out there and do that stuff you go with your family you go by yourself

57:18

I've just found that stuff very interesting so we'll have to have you back in and talk about that but thanks for sitting down with us on this

57:23

I think it was I mean just it's just stuff that we need to know as men at every stage

57:29

I don't care if you're 16 and just kind of going this whole new world out here with my license and girls right young man freshly married you know middle life all the way to old these biblical principles work for all of us and they meant for right every man so I appreciate you coming in them yeah thanks for having me cool guys thanks for listening to another episode of dead men walking podcast as always you can go to DMW podcast .com

57:55

check us out there's a little more information about us there's a merch there you can get a snarky t -shirt and support the show right now

58:03

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58:12

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58:18

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