July 5, 2024 Show with Jack Wilkie on “What Is the True LGBTQ+ Mission for Your Children?

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Well, have you ever wondered what the plus means at the end of L -G -B -T -Q?

I'm sure that most of you, like me, just figured that they ran out of letters, or it would be too cumbersome and lengthy for people to memorize if they were to list every perversion under the sun that is considered a part of the homosexual rights movement.

Well, my guest today believes it has a specific meaning, and he believes that it is a promotion of pedophilia.

And my guest today to discuss this is Jack Wilkie. He is a returning guest to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

He's an author, co -host of the Think Deeper podcast, and regularly featured writer at the

Church Reset Substack. And our theme for the day is, what is the true

L -G -B -T -Q plus mission for your children? It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Jack Wilkie.

Hey, Chris, thanks for having me back. Well, first of all, tell us something about the Church Reset Substack and what you actually mean by Church Reset.

Yeah, it's just named after a book I released in 2020, really looking at the modern church paradigm and consumer

Christianity. I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with the term seeker -sensitive and how that's come to dominate, really, the church growth landscape, and kind of rethinking that, resetting back to disciple -making toward family -like church rather than business -like church, rather than, hey, we hope you like it here and we're going to put on a million things to keep you busy and distracted.

It's really about becoming a part of the work yourself and what every joint supplies, as Ephesians 4 talks about.

And so that was what the book was about. And so now it's a site that really looks at matters of the church.

And then I try and do two articles a week, one on matters of the church and then one on cultural issues, like the things we're going to talk about today and things like that.

And so, yeah, that's where the name comes from. Well, if anybody wants more details, you could go to my guest's website,

Jack Wilkie, and that's spelled W -I -L -K -I -E dot co,

Jack Wilkie dot C -O. Well, as I've already said at the outset of the program, the plus at the end of the

LGBTQ acronym, or acrostic, I always forget which one to use.

But you have come to be convinced through a mountain of evidence and a growing, mounting pile of evidence that the plus stands for pedophilia.

And I understand that a bit of controversy was sparked even among professing

Christians when last year you began Pride Month by writing an article informing your audience that the plus stands for pedophilia.

And there was quite a negative response, even from people who profess to be

Christians, insisting that you were being overly provocative and offensive in ways that would drive members of the community away from the truth.

And obviously you said that that was not your intention. But tell us, first of all, about that.

And is that kind of reaction, in your opinion, does that go hand in hand with what you just mentioned earlier about the seeker -sensitive movement, where people are more afraid about how men will react over then how fearful they are of God himself?

That's a great question to connect those two. I think that really is part of it, of really thinking, how are people going to feel about this?

Well, that's not really the question. That's is it true or not? And of course, we want to present the truth in love.

But if it's true, we still need to find a way to say it. And at first it was kind of, OK, this isn't officially what the plus stands for.

It's just kind of it's so strong and so broadly evident in everything they do. But man, the more time goes on, the more

I see, the more I think that really is. They don't have the the cultural cachet.

They don't feel they have the boldness just yet to come out and say, well, we'll accept pedophiles and that's part of our movement.

Although I will say we'll talk about something here in a bit, I believe, where they tried to float that balloon a few years ago to put that as kind of part of their movement, did not go over well and they retracted it.

But now there's this just kind of vague plus of sexual minorities. And when you start looking at their messaging messaging from decades ago, when you start looking at things that they're doing, it's just so apparent that this is baked into the movement.

It is part of everything that they do includes kids. And and so you can't deny that this is part of what's happening.

And you look at, well, which letter stands for that? Well, there's not one, but there is a plus that's, again, just a very vague, undefined plus.

Well, again, look at their actions and you'll see what what else is covered in that. And so none of them.

That was some of the pushback I got was, no, that's not what it stands for. Nobody's going to officially say that.

I'm just saying you can read into things enough so easily when you it is a mountain of evidence.

But then again, you have Christians saying, boy, that really hurts the feelings of some folks in the

LGBT community. They're not going to want to come to Christ when they see this. My hope would be that if there are truth seekers and they find out they've aligned themselves with a movement that is pro or tolerant of or OK with the sexualization of children, a good, honest, truth seeking person is going to say,

I don't want anything to do with that. And so one of the things one of the parts of evangelism is exposing people to difficult truths.

I mean, Romans one says what it says for a reason. It's important to get these truths out there to show people the ugliness of sin, even if they're caught up in it.

Yeah, well, obviously, it would probably be good also to give a caveat.

I'm sure my guest is not saying, as I am not trying to convey the idea that all sinners are identical.

They're not all drunkards, as I once was, are heroin addicts.

In addition to being drunkards, not all murderers are serial killers.

And we could go on and on and on. And it's even wrong to bear false witness against sinners.

Lying about someone is a sin, whether they are a Christian with a stellar reputation or a leader in the

Christian church, or if they are someone on trial for a crime. And we are not, obviously, to bear false witness and heap on other crimes to the ones they actually committed in our accusations.

So, therefore, we are not saying everyone who is involved in the damnable unnatural sin of homosexuality is a pedophile or has a attraction to children.

So we want to rule that out. So don't start accusing us of saying things that we're not saying.

Absolutely. But at the same time, there appears to have always been some kind of a tolerance within the movement, even though there may be individuals and there may be many individuals who identify themselves as homosexuals who are vehemently opposed to the idea of pedophilia.

There is still in the movement been a subtle or not so subtle tolerance of this satanic behavior known as pedophilia.

And I can even immediately remember years ago, I don't know if it was before you were born,

Jack, but I believe it was when Rudolph Giuliani was running for president.

And I believe that was back in the 90s. And he marched in the gay rights parade to show that although he was a

Republican, he didn't hate homosexuals. And I remember being furious that he was a compromiser by doing so.

But either known or unbeknownst to Rudy Giuliani, he was actually marching right next to the

Mambla Float, which is an organization that enthusiastically defends child molestation.

Yeah, that's what the acronym stands for. The Man Boy Love Association. Mm hmm.

So if this was viewed as a vile and grotesque crime by all those who would call themselves gay rights activists, they never would have permitted this float to exist in their parade, would they?

No. Well, and that I'm glad you made the statement. It is not saying that all practice this or anything else.

My whole argument here is the farther you go into this movement, you're either going to have to endorse that kind of behavior or look the other way and pretend it's not a problem.

Exactly what you're saying, like Giuliani with that float. You look around and you find yourself surrounded by these people who are sexualizing children and advocating for the sexualization of children and lowering the age of consent and all kinds of legal battles they're fighting.

You can't just keep running along with that. Somebody who is against this with all their heart, as every decent person should be, would be distancing themselves from this movement to say, you know what, if they're going to allow me and these guys, these pedophiles,

I don't want to be a part of it. And that's really the choice that a lot of them are having to make. And a lot of them are saying, well, it's

OK, it's just part of it. And of course, there are those out there who have actually given a sweet sounding candy coated name for people who have the satanic desire to have sex with prepubescent children.

They have begun to call them maps, minor attracted persons.

And I know that there are even those that identify as homosexuals.

In fact, there's even a growing number of so -called conservative people that identify themselves as homosexuals who are hosting programs, podcasts, and even frequently featured on Fox News who have a political worldview that is conservative.

And they are even embarrassed by much of what goes on in the name of gay rights and gay rights activism.

But this is still an idea of redefining this as just a sexual proclivity, no different than any other proclivity, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual proclivities.

This is just another one, minor attracted persons. And I don't know of anybody who is openly and publicly saying that this should be tolerated and advocated and celebrated yet, but it's still out there being treated with kid gloves, as they say.

Any further comment on that? Sure. So I mentioned this a minute ago. It was salon .com

ran an article five or six years ago, maybe a little further. And it was exactly that. As you said, nobody's advocating this publicly.

This was the first attempt. And it was somebody saying, I'm a minor attracted person. Don't treat me like a monster. It went over so poorly that it has been pulled from salon .com.

You can find archived versions of it if you look hard enough on the Internet. But they were really trying to say, look,

I'm just up there with all the rest of them. I'm no different. And again, the backlash was so severe, they took it down.

But there was that attempt. And I would not be surprised if there's another attempt. But you introduce an interesting idea there about the people, even right wing conservative political people who want to distance themselves from that.

I don't think that is, I think, in the short term that works. I think long term, the logic always leads you back there.

When you're always talking about being born this way, when you're always talking about, I can't help how I was made,

I can't help how I am. When you're talking about the love is love slogan and things like that, those things are always going to slide into more and more degeneracy.

And it's always going to come back around to children. That's just part of it. The age of consent, the thing you're seeing with transgenderism.

If a five year old can claim he's a girl or a girl can claim she's a boy, you're establishing the ideas of consent.

And so there is no version of this where you climb halfway up the slippery slope and just stop right there.

You're always going to slide back down. And you're going to end up with people advocating like Salon .com did of they're not monsters.

They're just one of us. Yeah, you said something very vital to be included in this discussion is that if a huge number of people who are leftists believe that children, young, tiny, prepubescent children should be permitted to have puberty blockers and other pharmaceutical approaches to changing so -called their gender and even to the point of surgery.

If you are saying a child can make a life changing, permanent decision like that, irreversible decision like that, even though we don't allow them to drive automobiles, we don't allow them to vote and so on, you're saying that they can give consent to that.

It seems to me like a thinly veiled step in approving of children making a decision so -called to have sex with an adult.

Absolutely. And there's the other side of this in that they are separating children from their parents. Yes. The child can make this decision for themselves.

And so you're giving the child full autonomy and that full autonomy and decision making power, which

I've got young kids that they get very confused over. Who can I marry? They want to one day they want to marry their cousin.

One day they want to marry their buddy. You know, they're the boy with his friend who's a boy. They don't have the wherewithal to make any kind of decision about this stuff.

But what these people want to do and what states like California are doing is entrenching it to where that kid can say that.

The parents can't tell him otherwise, and then they can come rush in and take the children away or legally mandate that no counselor can talk a kid out of this stuff.

And all kinds of things like that that are really, again, just trying to give kids this legal ability to have this, that they have no business having anybody who's been around small children knows they don't know anything, even up to in their teenage years.

You're seeing 12 and 13 year olds with these surgeries. It's they don't kids don't have the ability.

They don't have the abstract thinking or thinking into the future. They get very confused. They're having these things forced on them by peers at school or by TikTok and things they're seeing on the

Internet or whatever. And they go down this road. And then you've got the law states stepping in to say parents can't stop this.

This is where they're going to go. And yeah, again, this is setting a number of very, very dark precedents for the sexualization of children.

I don't see how anybody doesn't see that. Well, we have to go to our first commercial break.

If you have a question for Jack Wilkie, our email address is Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com.

Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And we could readily understand a theme like this evoking questions from people who do have very personal and private matters that they want to ask about.

That could be that they themselves are struggling with homosexuality or even pedophilia or at least desires in that toward that end, where they have loved ones in that position, maybe even loved ones who have been arrested and convicted of this, whatever the case may be.

We understand that if you have a personal and private matter, it would compel you to remain anonymous. But if it's a general question, please give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

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today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with Jack Wilkie, who is an author and podcast co -host, and we are discussing a very disturbing topic that needs to be addressed.

And that topic is, what is the true LGBTQ plus mission for your children?

And our email address for questions is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

So Jack, tell us about your findings, your discoveries when you began to investigate what this plus was all about and why, maybe first of all, why is this important?

People may think that you're exaggerating the importance of a thing like that.

Evangelical Christians have not only been mocked by left -wing atheists and agnostics for attributing the

Teletubbies and other things to a homosexual agenda, and even

Christians have mocked other Christians for this, and this will be no different,

I'm sure. So tell us why this is important, first of all, and then begin to tell us what began to unfold in your investigation.

I think for a long time, Christians and a lot of people had a negative view of homosexuality.

It just kind of, nature tells you this, and there's that instinct that says, this isn't right. And through campaigns, and I'm going to talk about this in just a minute, how this came about, it became softer and people really got a different opinion, and there are so many

TV shows and things like that, and it's just, this could be your neighbor next door, they're normal, they're just like you, they can't help it, they were born this way, and all of this targeted campaign, and it gets worse and worse, and the pride parades, it used to be, why does it bother you what somebody does in the privacy of their bedroom?

And now they march down Main Street of every city in America, unclothed, performing sexual acts, all of these things, and I think the last thing left that people have that disgust, that sense of, this is wrong, is when it comes to children.

And I think it's very important that we point out, children will always be a part of this. Children always have been a part of this, and so, as I said earlier, you can't roll back the slippery slope halfway, and people will say, well, the slippery slope, that's a logical fallacy.

No, it's not. It can be, but if the principles are in place to make one move, those same principles apply to other moves, and so, as I said earlier, love is love, born this way, things like that, are the exact same principles they've used every step along the way, and now they're applying it to children, as we see, and so it's unavoidably going to end up here, and so we need people to regain that sense of, this is wrong, this is unhealthy, this is bad for society, it's bad for the home, and this is dangerous for children when we allow this to go on, and so it's not, let's roll this back one step, let's re -examine the whole thing through the lens of, pedophilia is inextricably linked, and so, you mentioned kind of the history of it, in 1987, an article was written, it was distributed in a gay magazine, it's, you can still find it online, this is not like some fringe conspiracy making things up, this is just right out there, it's still published on gay websites, it was called

The Overhauling of Straight America, and it was later turned into a book called After the Ball, and both of which were about getting

Americans to accept the homosexual movement, and it was written by two gay men, one of them was a neuropsychology expert, and the other one was a marketing expert, you put those two things together, they know how the brain works, they know how people respond to messaging, they are very good at their jobs, and they wrote this document saying, here's how we're going to get

America to accept us, the homosexual movement, and it is a brilliant piece of strategy, it was terrible, but it was brilliant, and it worked, as I said earlier, you see all the

TV characters, and all of the ways in which these ideas were brought in, and brought into schools, and everything they accomplished, and in that document, even all the way back in 1987, well, number one, it was written by Marshall Kirk, the neuropsychologist, and then a man named

Hunter Madsen, the marketing executive, but in the document, he actually went by Erastus Pill, it was a pen name,

Erastus comes from a practice of pederasty, Erastus is the older man who takes on a child as his love interest, that was the pseudonym under which he wrote this document, number one,

I mean, there's a Wikipedia article you can read all about Erastus, this is common knowledge, or readily available knowledge,

I guess I should say, that this is a pedophilic name in itself, well, in the document, they were talking about, it's important that Americans see homosexuals as victims, as victims of, they were born this way, but also victims of people treating them poorly, and so you can see the marketing skills come out, in which they said, look, this muscular, this macho, shirtless guys with mustaches, kind of the

Freddie Mercury look, the YMCA guys look, that was kind of big in the 70s, they said, we have to get away from that, because nobody's going to be sympathetic to those guys, we need older people, we need younger people, we need clean cut people, we need to put those people forward as homosexuals, but I want to read from the document here, this is very interesting, they said, in practical terms, this means that jaunty, mustachioed muscle men would keep very low profile in gay commercials and other public presentations, while sympathetic figures of nice young people, old people, and attractive women would be featured, it almost goes without saying, that groups on the farthest margin of acceptability, such as NAMBLA, North American Boy Love Association, must play no part at all in such a campaign, suspected child molesters will never look like victims, notice what they didn't say, they didn't say, let's make sure we distance ourselves from NAMBLA, let's make sure we're not associated with NAMBLA, they called

NAMBLA, the pedophiles, literal pedophiles, people that are on the farthest margin of acceptability,

I'm sorry, in what world is that acceptable at all, much less on the margin of acceptability, and this whole thing was, let's not let the

American people know that those guys are part of our movement, because if they know that they're part of our movement, they won't accept this, that's despicable,

I mean, you understand it from a marketing perspective, but this is in 1987, they're saying, we can't let the

American public know that pedophiles are also part of our movement, or else they'll never go for it, that to me, that one paragraph says so much about the entire movement.

And by the way, I highly recommend a book that came out over a decade ago, I don't know if my guest is familiar with it, but it's very much in agreement with what he has just told us,

The Marketing of Evil by David Kapillion, the subtitle is

How Radicals, Elitists, and Pseudo -Experts Sell Us Corruption Disguised as Freedom, and a lot of it has to do with the plan, the actual agenda to make homosexuality normalized in the minds of the populace, and a very great job that David Kapillion did,

I interviewed him years ago on this. But so, specifically, when it comes to that plus sign, how did you find out that, at least in your very convicted opinion, that that is in reference to pedophilia?

Well, as I said, you see things like this from the blueprint makers of the movement saying, hey, these are all the things we're for, and this one, but let's not tell them about this.

And so, as I said before, there's never, at least until this goes really far down the line, hopefully it never gets to this point, where they'll be comfortable tagging a

P onto the acronym, they can't do that, but they are more than okay with having pedophiles in their organization, in part of their movement, and so they're going to have to hide it.

And so when they say plus, there's two things they're doing with that. One, they want to really include anybody and everybody, everything, even the

Q, questioning. Anybody who's ever questioned, well, they're part of our movement. No, they're not. Sometimes you'll see them put an

A on there for asexual. That's people who are not sexually active. That's not part of their movement, but they're trying to claim everything but the heterosexuals.

And when you think about that, all of the letters they've put out there, they've got the two -spirit thing, which is kind of a

Native American thing they talk about, or intersex, and all kinds of things, labels they're trying to claim.

It's everything but monogamous heterosexuals. They will take on all of those groups of people, but the one thing they can't come out and openly say, we're gonna accept and include these guys as the pedophiles, but again, baked into their founding documents was pedophiles.

Then you go to somebody like Harvey Milk. I'm sure you're well aware of Harvey Milk. He's a gay hero.

He had a major Hollywood movie made about him. He has been on a U .S. stamp. There's a U .S. naval ship named after him.

I mean, this man was on a stamp. He was there. Well, in California has Harvey Milk Day.

He was a gay state representative in California. Right. He was. And yes.

And so he kind of got the martyr status in that way. And he's still seen as this huge hero in their movement.

He statutorily raped young men. He had young men who were confused and were writing to him, and he would correspond to them and say, well, come move in with me and take them on as his boy lovers.

And so, yeah, you have an actual pedophile as one of their heroes. Now, if if you're trying to have a movement and say, hey, we're good guys, we're nice people, we're just like you, we're normal, and you find out one of your heroes is a pedophile, that's not how you behave.

You don't put him on a stamp. You don't build a statue for that person. You don't name a holiday after that person. You don't ever mention him again.

You you distance yourself a million miles from him, but he was OK. Well, one of the other things

I've written about recently, there is a conservative homosexual journalist who just wrote a thread on Twitter again just a week or two ago talking about his experiences with it all and said that as a 14 year old, multiple homosexual men had sexual relationships with him.

And he was explaining. And this is the same thing Harvey Milk did. This is part of the culture. This is something they do.

He said this is a Chad Felix Green on Twitter X, whichever one you'd like to call it. He said in gay male culture, it's viewed as a kind of social acceptance and kindness.

Older men took in teenage runaways, treating them as adults. Many left wing gay men call these first encounters recall these first encounters fondly and see themselves as welcoming the next generation in a sex positive environment.

Again, he just says this is all part of of everything that you're doing of everything that the movement does is to the older teach the younger, the older pass it on to the younger in the sense that Harvey Milk did in the sense that you've just got so many of these examples.

And another conservative commentator, Milo Yiannopoulos, a few years ago said that's exactly how it works.

That's how I was brought into it at 13 years old. As young teenagers, they start questioning gay men, see them as vulnerable and offer them acceptance.

And that acceptance leads to sexual activity. I mean, they take them in for that reason.

And then as they grow older, they turn around and do it to the next generation. It is a disgusting system. And you've got multiple of them coming forward and saying, this is just how it works.

We all know this is how it works. Once you become a part of this community, it gets passed on. And that's, again, as we said earlier, the disclaimer not to say that they all participate in that, but that it is a an open secret within the community that this is something that so many of them have gone through.

In fact, I even remember in the sitcom Will and Grace, the over -the -top effeminate homosexual character

Jack would frequently have lines that made fun of or attempted to bring humor to the fact that he was attracted to much younger men.

And even though he was a young character himself, they made a clear attempt to show that this seemed to be a very regular aspect of the so -called gay community where there is an idolatry of youth.

And that doesn't seem to have been a secret, that aspect of it. I guess the secret has been the level of youth that we're talking about, even to the point of pedophilia.

Yes. Yeah. Again, early teenage years, puberty right around that time.

Of course, it will certainly go younger as well. But there is just something about that liking to get them as they're changing and growing and taking on a new view on life and kind of getting their hooks in them at that point.

And you've created one for life who participates in the community. And there's the statistics out there about how many sexual partners the average homosexual male has.

And it is exorbitant. It is beyond belief. And of course, the STD prevalence.

And there's one statistic says that one in three adult homosexuals will just openly admit or not admit.

I'm not sure the term I'm looking for here just says that they were sexually assaulted as a child. One in three.

I mean, that is a humongous rate that you can very much draw a correlation to.

It's a perpetuating cycle that the older do it to the younger, they grow up and it continues going on. And it's horrible that this happens to our young people and that so much of this movement is predicated on that because, again, they don't have children.

And so you'll see them adopting and you just think, well, man, this this should not be allowed because of the rates of abuse that happened in this community.

You might remember monkeypox a couple of years ago when at the height of the covid hysteria and you're hearing the next thing that was coming on was monkeypox and people having cases of it breaking out.

And then you see headlines about this is very much being sexually transmitted. And it is very strong in the gay community.

And that's really where it's growing again. They're very promiscuous. And so it's spreading fast in that community. The average person doesn't have to worry about it.

Then you started seeing headlines that animals and small children were coming down with monkeypox. And then all of a sudden you never heard about monkeypox again.

Wow. That was buried from the headlines because people can put two and two together. Right. If this is how this thing comes to pass and then animals and children start getting it, bad things are happening.

And so, again, this is some people are like, that's crazy. I'm sorry. Use your brain.

Follow the logical line of how we got here and then ask yourself, why did that stop being a story? It didn't just disappear.

What happened? That is very bad publicity. They're very good at the PR, as we talked about earlier.

Yeah, in fact, there is not only a movement to gain acceptance and tolerance for homosexual behavior, where people involved in that are to be treated like equals.

There is a movement that in reality, even though it would probably not say it this way, but it's clear that's what they mean, that is promoting the superiority of homosexuality.

And I'll give you an example. I was at a town hall meeting in my town here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, several years ago when there was being a public vote by government officials on defining homosexuality as a or homosexuals as a protected status group.

And ironically, this was being brought to a vote, even though apparently, according to people that I know who did research on this, never in the history of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, was there an act of violence against someone because they were homosexual, at least that was never reported.

But during this open town hall meeting, a woman got up and said that she is afraid to even bring her grandchildren into a public restroom, not knowing what's going to be on the other side of that door.

This was all linked to the a legalization of letting a so -called transgender person use the restroom of their choice according to what gender they believed that they were.

And a woman, I don't know if she was a lesbian or if she was just a leftist advocate of homosexuals, she got up and she said, this woman that just said she was afraid to bring her grandchildren into public restrooms because of what might happen to them at the hands of people in the

LGBTQ community. She doesn't know what she's talking about. LGBTQ people do not molest children.

The people that are guilty of these crimes are typically white, middle -aged, heterosexual, married men.

And after she finished her ridiculous speech, I stood up and I said,

I hope that you all heard what that woman said very clearly. Let the fog settle for a minute.

She was making a case for homosexual superiority over heterosexuals.

They would never in a million years harm your children. But people like me, white, heterosexual males, middle -aged males, we're the ones you got to look out for.

We're the ones that should have a target on our backs and should be looked upon with suspicion because we're the ones that would do this.

And it even goes beyond that. No heterosexual man would be taken seriously if he wanted to lead a

Girl Scout troop on a camping trip into the woods with your daughters. And yet we're supposed to trust a homosexual man to bring your sons out into the woods.

Am I making sense here? Absolutely. And this is one of these things you keep seeing of they're downplaying it.

Of course, there's the drag queen story, our thing, and we're perfectly safe and we love children and all of those things.

And time after time, you're seeing the headlines where one who was outspoken about, hey, we're safe around children and that's your problem.

You're bigoted that you don't want to surround your children. And then you see that person turn up going to jail for possessing child pornography or indecent exposure or worse, unfortunately.

And this happens again and again. And you can find cases Googling these things where that just keeps happening.

And then you see, I'm sure you remember, I think it was in twenty twenty one, the San Francisco gay men's chorus singing and they were spinning it as humor and satire and all that.

But it was a song called We're Coming for Your Children. Really? I didn't know that. Oh, you hadn't.

Oh, man, this you'll have to look this up later. The words I pulled up here will convert your children happens bit by bit, quietly and subtlety.

And you will barely notice it. And they just kind of sing the whole song about, well, we're going to teach them.

He said, you'll be disgusted when they start learning things online that you kept far from their sight. We'll convert your children.

Yes, we will. Reaching one and all. There's really no escaping it because even grandma likes RuPaul. Wow. Yeah.

And then they came out immediately after and said it was just a joke. We didn't mean that. I'm sorry. You don't joke about the sexualization of children.

Normal people don't do this. Brains that are functioning normally and people that have any sense of morality and dignity do not make jokes about the sexualization of children.

And anytime if you were around a heterosexual person that was joking about sexualizing your children, the first thing you do is you get your kids as far away from that person as possible.

This is somebody in that group. They all thought it was a good idea to sing that or to write the words, to sing it, to record it, to post it online.

And just as, oh, yeah, this is, you know, oh, yeah, we're coming for your children or these big, scary monsters. That's not something you make a satire out of.

That's not something that you joke about. And that they would do that just says so much about the kind of movement we're dealing with.

And we have to go to our midway break right now. So please make wise use of this time.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Morecraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in a tie in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Before I return to my guest, Jack Wilkie, we have some important announcements to make.

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Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Jack Wilkie, and our subject today,

I believe, is a very important one due to the apathy and softness and tolerance of the homosexual rights movement, even to some extent by professing evangelical

Christians. So please send in your questions on what is the true

LGBTQ plus mission for our children. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Before I go to our listener questions that have come in already,

I noticed that in your blog article that really was the spark behind me contacting you to conduct this interview is that you mentioned something that is a really at the heart of a lot of what we're talking about today as far as the softness of many in the

Christian church towards this sin. There is a mantra that is being droned on and on and on which is a half -truth.

Sin is sin, and obviously all sin, no matter whether it is heterosexual sin or homosexual sin, in fact, even if it is what we would consider a completely minor sin, killing a white lie so -called or what have you, any sin that is not covered with the blood of Christ will send a person to eternal torment.

But that does not mean that while we are on earth we are to treat all sins equally, and that would even include the difference between heterosexual sin and homosexual sin.

During a debate that I arranged and moderated recently between Dr. James R.

White of Alpha Omega Ministries, dear friend of mine, and Dr. Gregory Coles, who is a part of a movement called

Side B Christianity in which these folks claim to be gay and they believe there is absolutely nothing inappropriate to refer to yourself as a gay

Christian as long as you do not consummate that desire physically or even lust after anyone.

They would agree that that's sin, but they think that the so -called innate state of being gay is completely neutral, and you don't need to repent of that state of being.

And it was made clear during this debate that Dr.

Coles even viewed being gay as a gift from God because it prevented him from lusting after women, because in his statement, which

I believe was inaccurate, the world is far more bombarded with heterosexual imagery that triggers lust in people than it is with male -centered imagery.

I just don't even believe that that's true in this day and age. But if you have any comment on that further,

Jack? Yeah, I mean, the Side B thing is very dangerous because your heart does have to go out to young people who have these attractions and these issues.

And you think about young people are inherently unsettled, trying to find their identity, trying to find what they are.

And it is such a mark against our society that we've allowed these things to be part of the buffet of options available to them.

I mean, even when I was 13 years old, this was not even a consideration. Now, the average 13 -year -old, especially in schools, and if they have a phone and all that, they are introduced to this gigantic spectrum of bad ideas.

And then, of course, you've got, as you say, Christians who should know better softening this, saying, well, it's okay up to a point, not exposing the evils of this.

And so you bring up that idea of sin is sin. Yeah, the wages of sin is death.

Obviously, Romans 6, we know how ugly sin is and how it separates us from God. But it is really nonsensical, if you've read through the

Bible, to say that sin is sin, that it's all the same, in that God treats them very differently.

If you look at Romans 1, it starts with not acknowledging God, not having adequate gratitude for what

God has done. And it's multiple layers of they did this, they exchanged

God for something else, and God gives them over, God gives them over, God gives them over. And it's at the end of that spiral away from God that you start getting the exchanging the natural for the unnatural and homosexuality, these

LGBT things are way down the line. And you can see this in the American culture.

Were there homosexual people in the 1940s, 50s, 60s? Yes. But it was something that was not broadly acceptable.

It was not something that the average 13 year old had to think, am I gay? Am I trans? Am I any of these things? As we've spiraled away, that comes on to the menu, as I mentioned a minute ago.

And so you've got the Romans 1 issue, you've got the Old Testament, you look at the law, some sins, it was go sacrifice, you know, a small offering, and make atonement for it, and then it's okay.

Others were, you're put to death, you are, or you're cut off from your people, like the punishments varied greatly.

Well, if sin is sin, why would that be the case? Or you think about Jesus saying, one who causes one of these little ones to stumble, it'd be better for them to have a millstone hung around their neck and then thrown into the sea.

That's not, he didn't say that about everybody. He didn't say that about every sin he encountered. Certain ones are deserving of greater punishment, are deserving of greater scorn, and they're worse in that sense.

Not worse in that you get more hell, I mean, it's heaven, like you're separated from God or not, but worse in that God sees them as worse and more perverted and more just evil toward other people.

Yeah, and I would go further to say that one of the huge, enormous differences between heterosexual sin and homosexual sin is that heterosexual attraction is a gift from God, and when it is sin, it is an abuse of a gift from God.

You can never say that about homosexuality. There is no way, shape, or form that that is a gift from God in spite of Dr.

Gregory Cole's claims that his being homosexual was a gift of God.

In fact, he even said during the debate that if he was offered a pill that would cure his gayness, he wouldn't take it.

So this is quite a disturbing scenario.

In fact, keep in mind, evangelical Christians all over the United States are inviting

Gregory Cole to speak to their youth groups. But anyway, let me go to one of our listener questions,

Lemuel in South, I'm sorry, in Spanish Forks, Utah, Spanish Fork, Utah.

Lemuel asks, do you know if the added triangle featuring pink and baby blue colors on the homosexual rainbow flag is referring to pedophilia?

I know that some homosexual activists have sought to rebuke and refute that assinuation saying that it is symbolizing transgenderism.

Have you found anything to the contrary? Yeah, I don't believe the commonly seen flags have yet to add a pedophile or minor attracted, as they would like to call them.

I do believe that is something that is out there, but I don't believe it's the triangle and circle one that has kind of come into use in recent years.

OK, well, thank you, Lemuel. We also have

Doreen in Seaford, Long Island, New York. And Doreen says, how do you respond to the fact that even homosexuals were infuriated and disgusted over Academy Award winning actor

Kevin Spacey having had relations with younger men and he has even had his career ruined over it to the support of those most vocal in the homosexual rights community?

Yeah. So that was interesting that, you know, he gets busted as an abuser and his excuse is, well, I'm homosexual like that.

It's like that's not what people are talking about here. But he correlated the two. But they have a good point in that he was outcast for that.

I will say, and this goes back to the the after the ball and what those those authors put together in the 1980s, they are very protective of the messaging in certain ways.

In other ways, as you see, they're not you can you can see what they're getting at.

But in other ways where it's kind of openly correlated, they don't like it. And so I mentioned earlier Milo Yiannopoulos, a very bombastic is he's gay.

He was a right wing pro Trump journalist, editor, writer, very prominent in the 2016 election cycle.

And again, just a really raunchy, offensive person. But that didn't stop him.

He had a great job. He had a two hundred fifty thousand dollar Simon and Schuster book deal. And then he went on a podcast or on a video chat on some show and explained the process by which he was brought into homosexuality as a as a 13 year old and kind of trained and taken in as an older man or by an older man, just as that.

Chad Felix Green, I mentioned earlier that same process. And it was when he made that podcast appearance and shared the details of how he was recruited into homosexuality as a 13 year old.

His book deal was canceled. His speaking engagements were canceled. He was just off the map overnight.

Whereas I mean, this guy made a living on saying offensive things of racially insensitive things and now flamboyantly homosexual, even even among conservatives and things like that, that it never got him, quote unquote, canceled.

But the minute he said, yeah, everybody, because that was the other thing he said, this is what happened to me. And he said, this is how it works.

This is how this community operates in the same. I read from that Twitter thread by Green. He was saying the exact same things.

And that was the thing where he crossed the line and wasn't allowed to. And I think very similar with Spacey. It's when he correlated his homosexuality with going after young men that they they will not.

They did not want him saying that part out loud. And of course, the crimes he was accused of, which some of them anyway, the ones he was tried for, he has been apparently exonerated for.

But these were unwelcomed sexual advances, advances and claims of molestation and so on.

So it wasn't mutual consent involved in these charges. Right, right.

And that's I mean, the consent thing that is there. They still say they're very, very pro consent.

And they just think young people can consent. And so they start blurring their own lines. It gets very messy.

Yeah. Let's see. We have

Bobby in Searcy, Arkansas. And Bobby says, please,

I want you to understand fully, I am not trying to soften the seriousness of grown men or women, for that matter, having sexual relations with teenagers far lower in age than themselves.

But do we make a mistake when we make an absolute equivalency between pederasty or people who have sex with teenagers and pedophiles?

The reason I'm saying this is because it actually, I think, counteracts what the attempts are in trying to make the pederasty evil.

It actually makes pedophilia less evil because it is more normal to have an attraction to a fully developed teenager.

Am I making sense? OK, so they're making puberty kind of a dividing line there of the 13 or 14 year old is different than the seven or eight year old.

And I mean, if you call it all the same thing, you know. Right. And there are different terms for a reason.

On the other hand, let's put the heterosexual filter on this and try it.

A person, you know, a man who goes after a seven year old girl, that's a very evil thing. A man who goes after a 13 year old girl, very evil thing.

Are there differences? Yes, subtly. But both of these people should face the full extent of the law.

I think most people would agree. You just can't do that. And so splitting hairs,

I mean, is there a difference in that sense? And that's where people get to the age of consent. But this is what happens.

Somebody says, well, there's a difference here. And so we can lower the age of consent to 13 because most of them have passed through puberty. And I'm not saying this person is claiming that.

But I am saying that when we really start trying to to draw another line in here to make it a little less bad there.

I mean, I've there's there's stories obviously out there of course, the Catholic Church or the young altar boys of ministers.

I've read about where they went after young interns and things like that, 14 or 15 year old high school boys that were coming in and working and things like that.

They're they're evil people. They're they're predatory people. And this is and I know this is what

Yiannopoulos was saying, what Green was saying is they think at 13 or 14, I'm consenting to this. I like this. I want to be a part of this.

That's where you start getting that into their heads is when you allow them that distinction in that sense.

I mean, is there a technical distinction? Yes. But I don't think functionally we should draw much of a line there. OK, thank you,

Bobby. And before I go to any more listener questions, I want to make sure that you have have as much as possible exhaust exhausted the reasons for your being convinced that the plus is referring to pedophilia in the

LGBTQ plus acronym or acrostic. And why is this significant?

Yeah, let me give you a couple of brief other ones. You might remember Florida with the don't say gay bill as it was labeled.

Right. And they made it to where it really did. I mean, they labeled it that to say they've basically made it illegal to say the word gay in school and things like that.

You know what they said was up to fourth grade, teachers are not allowed to discuss their relationships and sex life with children.

Why would anybody have a problem with that? That is a very strange thing to protest. And when they say this is an attack on our community to say we're not allowed to talk about our sex life with children.

What does that say about your community? I mean, that's I'm a heterosexual person. I have no problem.

You saying like I shouldn't talk about those things around children. I don't talk about those things around children, especially other people's children and in a school setting and things like that.

That's absurd. But boy, they they threw a fit over that. And again, label that don't say gay like you're trying to erase us from existence by not letting us talk about these things with children.

What does that say about your existence? What does that say again about your community? So there was that I believe last time

I was on. We talked about my book Failure about public schools. And there's a whole chapter in there dedicated to the sexualization of the curriculum.

And under the Obama administration, there was a gay man named Kevin Jennings. He started the

Gay Lesbian Straight Educators Network, and his whole thing was about getting homosexuality into the schools in the 90s even.

And his messaging was about bullying. The same thing, same playbook that the other guys had set out.

And after the ball, let's make ourselves victims. Let's make people feel bad for us. Let's make it to where where this can happen.

And you might remember he as I mentioned, he was under the secretary of education under President Obama.

You might remember Michelle Obama was big on anti -bullying initiatives in schools. And then this guy was driving a lot of that about we got to make our schools safe and non -bullying.

But that was a very broad umbrella in which he could bring in homosexual material. And he said as much in the 90s, even saying that, look, they see us as promoting homosexuality.

He says we seized upon our opponents calling card safety and explained how homophobia represents a threat to student safety by creating a climate where violence, name calling, health problems and suicide are common.

He said this framing short circuited their arguments and left them backpedaling from day one. So strategically, he brought it into the schools under the guise of keeping kids safe.

And so, again, these are people going, how do we get this idea to elementary school children?

How do we sexualize? How do we teach them about our ways of sexuality? On the one hand, that's weird.

On the other, if you believe it's a normal way of life, of course you're going to try and teach it to kids. It's inevitable that they take this to children, which creates the problems that we're seeing.

And the significance of that being even if it is a hidden thing right now, the plus in a publicly official acronym or acrostic to identify a so -called people group, and we know that this is not a people group.

These are behaviors. And I think one of the problems in regard to this whole conversation is that Christians have even picked up and adopted the common modern vernacular when it comes to this activity.

We tend maybe even to unconsciously view, like they call it the homosexual community or the

LGBTQ community, as if this is an ethnic group. It is not.

These are people who are individuals who have abominable behaviors and desires.

And they're not even all the same in that acronym. In fact, I've heard even people who are openly homosexual in their activity really try to oppose the transgender movement.

They will claim that it's a completely different phenomenon and movement.

And of course, you even have feminists who are strangely quiet, but there are some that come out of the woodwork who are opposed to the transgendered dominance of female sports at this point, where you'll have biological men beating the tar out of their female competitors in all kinds of sporting activities.

But don't we have to be careful about adopting the way the world has come to view this?

It's kind of interesting how it is only in relation to homosexual activity that they are viewed as a people group.

Nobody views adulterers and heterosexual fornicators as a people group, if you follow what

I'm saying. Absolutely. And this is why I talk about this, and I think

I see some people's eyes glaze over when I do, but I think churches have to really hammer down on teaching about critical theory.

And critical race theory is the one you hear about the most. That is one manifestation of it. But critical theory is this

Marxist power dynamics view of society, the oppressed and the oppressor. And anytime they want to bring an idea in and get it accepted and make it something that the people are

OK with, they play this oppressed oppressor game, and so they make an identity group, as you say. They're identified by their sexuality and all of the things that go along with that, the transgenderism or whatever.

And now they are a people group, but they are not white, Christian, heterosexual people groups, so they are automatically an oppressed people group, and therefore they have rights, therefore they can kind of play this persecution card and get acceptance that they should not be getting because they're playing on people's good hearts, people's good sympathy to say, oh, you know,

I feel bad for these people and all they've been through. Again, you read that document, the overhauling of straight

America in 1987, and you'll see they knew this. We can make people sympathetic towards us. We can essentially use their

Christian values of loving their enemies and loving the downtrodden and all of these things.

And so critical theory takes advantage of Christians and takes advantage of people, non -Christians who want to try and be good moral people by making them into an identity group, a community like you're talking about, and then making that an oppressed community.

And then you get stuff like, well, Christians have just been so mean to homosexuals. We really haven't.

I mean, there's the Westboro Baptist thing, which all of us look at and say, yeah, that's that's not good. We don't endorse holding up those signs at soldiers' funerals.

I mean, that has nothing to do with it. But as far as otherwise, how are we so mean to them?

But they play this card to get the sympathy, to play the critical theory game. And then we're on we're on the back foot.

And here we are. OK, we have Trisha in Waterville, Maine, who wants to know if my guest has any familiarity with the

Revoice movement that came into being from out of the Presbyterian Church in America denomination?

Yes. So that the Side B thing we discussed earlier, Revoice is kind of the big organization that has pushed that.

I'm not entirely familiar with all of them. I know for a while there I followed the work of Preston Sprinkle as he got more and more comfortable with them.

I don't know if you're familiar with his name. Yes, in fact, in fact, his organization has

Dr. Gregory Coles on its staff. He is the one that I mentioned earlier that debated James Wright.

Yeah, there's some really dangerous stuff coming out. And again, they they are Christians who have accepted the oppressed oppressor thing and that these are an oppressed community.

And so Christians really need to apologize and rethink and listen. That's one of those things you hear in critical race theory a lot, right?

You need to listen because you don't know how you're an oppressor until you listen. Same thing with the LGBT stuff.

Well, you don't know how you've oppressed us, so you need to sit down and listen to how you've oppressed us. And it usually always comes back to you told us what the

Bible says, and that was oppressive. It's it's a very dangerous thing. So I know you had the debate episode or the debate hosted on that.

I'd point people back to that because I'm sure Dr. White did a great job with it. And so not to get too deep into that now, but yeah, the the revoice side

B, it's very much a compromise position on something that we just can't afford to do a compromise on.

Amen. And we're going to our final excuse me, our final break right now. If you have a question for Jack Wilkie, please submit it as soon as you can, because we are rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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I'd like to highlight my interviews with Dr. Rosaria Butterfield and also

Dr. MD Perkins of the American Family Association. But we are now back with Jack Wilkie and we have been discussing an issue that is controversial in the body of Christ and it shouldn't be.

It should be as clear and as easily recognizable as the shoes on your feet that homosexuality in all forms is an abomination and is unnatural and should never be tolerated in any way even if it is just in the realm of a proclivity or a desire.

This cannot be justified by calling it Christian in any sense.

But Jack, I guess even though we can say this till we're blue in the face, people will still accuse us of being mean -spirited and hateful but you are not in any way intending to be unnecessarily cruel toward people who have these desires.

In fact, I believe with confidence that your motivation is not only the love of God which is first and foremost, the love of His inerrant and holy word, but also the love of sinners who are enslaved by this sin.

You want them to come to repentance and inherit eternal life just as you and I have.

Am I right on that? Absolutely and it really raises the question of addressing sinners.

There is that kind of idea, that strategy that it is by niceness that people come to the truth and by showing them how kind and loving and nice we are, that's what brings people around and obviously we should speak the truth in love.

Obviously, we should be loving and welcoming and you mentioned Rosaria Butterfield and I've read her story of as a lesbian college professor.

It was Christians inviting her over and they let her know in no uncertain terms, we disagree with you, we believe you're in sin, we think you're wrong, but table fellowship, having her over to their house and things like that.

So, there was that love, but there also was the bluntness to say, yeah, we're not going to hide the fact that we think this is wrong and we think this whole idea is wrong and I think we have to have that balance, whereas there is that strategy that says, let's really push love and if they come open to that, then we can tell them the truth.

Now, let's be truthful up front while being loving and part of truthfulness is to say, hey, when you identify with this, when you go to pride parades, when you fly that rainbow flag, this is what you're associating with.

Are you okay with the sexualization of children? Are you okay with Harvey Milk being an icon as we talked about?

Are you okay with so many of these things? What are your thoughts on NAMBLA? This is something that I think it's important with any time you're confronting all of us in our sin before we come to Christ, you got to be put on the spot a little bit.

You've got to be made a little uncomfortable because if you're never uncomfortable, you're never going to consider why do

I need Christ and why do I have a sin problem and things like that. And the discomfort is where the questions and the doubt and the uncertainty arises and we can come in when there is doubt and uncertainty and say, well, here's a better way.

Here's the real answer. Here's Jesus Christ and the Bible and all of the things that we have here to teach you that will move you away from a movement that is open to these terrible things.

And I think just kind of pretending it's not there because it's uncomfortable is not helping anybody.

Now, would you agree with the assessment I made earlier that many evangelicals today are treating sins that involve a homosexual bent in a softer, kinder, gentler way than they would with heterosexual sin?

It just reminded me of a sermon that Votie Balcombe gave.

I was going to bring that up. I'm glad you and Votie said in the he was shocking people listening because they were baffled as to why he was saying this, but he made it clear after his opening remarks saying,

I love wife Peters and some of my best friends in the world are wife

Peters. And he kept going on and on making these disclaimers so that wife

Peters would not be offended by his message. But then he went on to make it clear why he was saying that sarcastically.

He said that most of the sermons likely, I guess he doesn't have infallible knowledge of this, but most of the sermons he is guessing in the evangelical world that are intended to expose homosexual sin as being against the scriptures on biblical and so on.

There needs to be an apology made in the minds of many before they do that, where they don't do that with other sense.

This is a very bizarre phenomenon, isn't it? It really is. And it just says how indoctrinated we are by the culture, how we're getting our, our sensibility from the world rather than from God's word, because yeah, wife

Peters and somebody to say, well, they're not beating anybody. Okay. We'll make it an adulterer. Nobody looks at their, their friend.

Who's an adulterer. And it was like, oh yeah, you know, I don't, don't want anybody to get the idea that I hate him when I tell him he shouldn't commit adultery.

That's not even a consideration. I mean, like this is you, you say wrong is wrong. And when we have this, this tiptoeing around the issue, because we've been trained by everything we see on TV, everything we see on the internet, that boy,

Christians are so mean. Christians are so bad at this. And you really do need to apologize before you say anything that's going to go against these people.

And the idea that love equals tolerance equals acceptance equals looking the other way or whatever.

No love is saying God's not okay with this. Love is again, lovingly doing it there.

There is an unloving way to speak the truth, but yeah, hiding behind and soft peddling and all of this stuff, because the world tells us that's what we're supposed to do.

We've got to stop asking the world, how do we approach these issues? Well, we've got time to squeeze in one more question from a listener.

We have Merle in Bogalusa, Louisiana. And Merle says,

I'm wondering if your guest has any comments as to what I believe is the irresponsible and unbiblical advice of a very well -known reformed radio and television host and author where he was telling an elderly woman to attend her grandson's same -sex marriage ceremony.

Yeah, I remember that controversy a few months ago. Yeah, he's talking about Alistair Begg. I've already addressed this on my show using

Alistair's name. It surprised me more than I could say.

I've had Alistair on this program. I have a great love and respect for him, but at this point,

I have a severe extreme hesitancy to recommend him, especially enthusiastically.

But go ahead, I'm sorry. No, absolutely. It makes you question somebody's judgment when they come down on something that way.

I fully agree he was wrong about that. And his follow -up comments about, essentially, well, you American Christians are just so argumentative or so.

I don't remember the term he used, but it's like, you guys just want to fight about everything and make everything an issue. And it's like, I'm sorry, but some things you have to take a stand on.

And if you don't take a stand on this one, what's it going to be? I mean, you have to. And that is one of those things of a desire to not be seen as going after controversy or as being judgmental.

Get away from that worrying about that. Worry about what God thinks about something. Well, we are out of time, and I want to make sure that our listeners have your website again.

It is Jack Wilkie dot co. Jack W .I .L .K .I

.E. dot co. Thank you so much for doing an absolutely superb job today, Jack. I look forward to your return to the show.

I want to thank everybody who listened. I hope that you all have a safe and joyful and Christ honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, Jesus Christ is a far greater