Open Theism (pt-3)

Let's open with a word of prayer our Heavenly Father we We praise you and thank you this morning that you are a God who has revealed himself to us that you are a God who? Is eternal that you are a God who does not alter in his purpose and that you truly?

Do have all things in your hands and we can trust you because of that and that you are powerful to save. That you will save you have the you have the desire to save and you have the power to save and so father We would thank you for all of that and praise you this morning.

Open our hearts this morning prepare our hearts to receive your word in Jesus name. Amen. We're going to turn this morning to the case for exhaustive foreknowledge of God. The past two Sundays, we've been looking a little bit at open theism and what it teaches and We've refuted it a little bit and but this morning we're going to talk Primarily about what is the case?

We've been saying insisting that God has Exhaustive foreknowledge, so what is the case for that? What does the Bible have to say about God's foreknowledge because the key word here is? Exhaustive. He has complete he has total foreknowledge.

Even many of the open theist would agree that God has partial foreknowledge. Although they do not explain how it is possible to foreknow some things but not other things but We insist that God and God I believe you'll see insists for himself that he has complete foreknowledge.

He foreknows everything That ever has happened that ever will happen. There are some biblical scholars who say God also foreknows everything that might have happened and So that's an interesting idea but this everything that God foreknows includes all the volitional choices of His morally free creatures.

He created certain individuals. Certain of his creation are created With volition that is they're created with will. They can choose to do certain things for which they are morally held Responsible the angels fall into this category.

We fall into this category. The lower animals are not creatures of volition although you might say you haven't seen my dog or you haven't seen my cat, but You know in the sense that we're using it the lower animals do not have volition.

We have volition in. That we are free to make choices and we bear the consequences of those choices. That's what it means to be volitionally free. You know, we have to take the responsibility. We are morally responsible for those choices that we make in fact, if you will that is what it means to be an adult as We go from being a child on up to an adult a child is not capable of understanding the consequences of its actions.

Nor is it capable of dealing with those consequences and it is as we raise them. We are teaching them to do exactly those things. So that hopefully when they become adults They will be able to cope and to understand the consequences of their actions.

Just as an aside and not part of the lesson. It seems like we're not doing too good in certain circles with that these days, but that's a whole different series of messages. Anyway back to this the idea that God has Exhaustive foreknowledge means that nothing that everything that has happened or ever will happen Including all of the volitional choices of his morally free creatures is Included in God's divine plan.

Nothing surprises him. Nothing has ever caused God to reevaluate nothing has ever caused God to alter his purpose bless you and God does not acquire knowledge. God does not learn. God does not has never said if only I'd known I would have done doesn't such differently.

God knows the ends from the beginning because he has decreed the ends. And so we're going to look this morning. There are nine passages in Isaiah That drive this home probably better than any other portion of the scripture and we can't deal with all of them exhaustively.

But we're going to at least touch on them this morning. The the whole point of these passages though is the same is that The God of Israel is the true and living God and all other gods are pretenders the God of Israel knows and accurately predicts the future and None of the imposters can do that.

See that's the thing where we are going to look this morning at The criteria that God himself sets down for claiming deity. Oh. You want to claim that you're a god? Okay two things. Show me what's happened in the past that you predicted accurately and Also do it again for the future you claim to be a god.

Mr Piece of wood here that somebody's hacked on fine. Let's see you predict the future that is his criteria for claiming deity and The open theists go directly against this. They attack that they attack God's own standard for claiming deity.

And so the first one In Isaiah, this is all in the Isaiah 40s set forth your case says the Lord bring your proofs. We're in Isaiah chapter 41 starting in verse 29. Set forth you set forth your case says the Lord bring your proofs says the King of Jacob.

Let them bring them and tell us what is to happen. Tell us the former things. There's number one what they are that we may consider them that we may know their outcome or Declare to us the things to come.

There's number two. Tell us what is to come hereafter that we may know that you are God's. Do good or do harm that we may be dismayed and terrified. Behold, you are nothing and your work is less than nothing and Abomination is he who chooses you.

I stirred up one from the north and he has come. He's referring to Cyrus and he has come from the rising of the Sun and he shall call upon my name he shall trample on rulers as on mortar as the potter treads clay who declared it from the beginning that we might know and Beforehand that we might say he is right.

There was none who declared it none who proclaimed none who heard your words. I was the first to say to Zion behold here they are and I give to Jerusalem a herald of good news. But when I look there is no one among these.

There is no counselor who when I ask gives an answer. Behold, they are all a delusion there. Their works are nothing. Their metal images are empty wind. It's Isaiah chapter 41 verses 21 through 29. And if I can divest divert for just a second, I Don't think he's talking about what blows in the trees.

You can take that for what it's worth. Says your wind you're nothing. But here's the challenge. Here's your challenge first. Tell us of the former things. And he's not asking for a history lesson here.

What God is challenging the false gods to do is tell me of something that you predicted that came to pass. Show me something that you predicted it came to pass. Tell me the former things where you ahead of time said this was going to happen and it came to pass because consider God's criteria for his prophets when I Isaiah was a prophet and How did you know that Isaiah was a prophet?

You knew because Isaiah came out and said thus saith the Lord such-and-such and it came to pass. Now that means that Isaiah was predicting things that were going to happen in relatively short time. I Can stand up here and I could say I predict that 500 years from now thus and such is going to happen.

Well, that's a pretty safe statement because none of you are going to be around to check me out. All right. You know the prophecies of Nostradamus. Nostradamus ain't here. All right. But on the other hand if I say thus saith the Lord next Wednesday at 1036 in the morning thus and such is going to happen in Three days you're going to know if I'm right and What's the criteria for being God's prophet being right?

Every time. And The penalty for being wrong even once was death a pretty strong criteria. So God is taunting if you will. These these false images these false gods saying okay, you claim to be a god you show me.

You show me something that you predicted that accurately accurately and it came to pass and then he turns around and says the next thing is Tell me what's going to happen in the future. So he's got two criteria here first one says prove that you've done this before and number two is do it again and The purpose of all of it so that we can know that you're God's.

So that Even though God is going to cite specific examples of his foreknowledge in these coming passages. It's clear. He is stating a general principle God can tell the future with certainty. God can tell the future with certainty.

The ability to do that is God's own standard for claiming deity. In general every time not just occasionally. It's not like the guys that are out in, California. You know every year they say well this might be the year of the big one.

Well, if they keep saying that long enough sooner or later, they're going to be right because It's just going to happen to intersect but that's not what God's talking about. God says specifically in great detail every time you tell me what's going to happen and So denying God's standard is a very very serious matter.

The next passage he talks about Chapter 42 verses 8 and 9 I am the Lord that is my name My core my glory I give to no other nor my praise to carved idols. Behold the former things have come to pass and New things I now declare before they spring forth.

I tell you of them. There we have it again criteria 1 2 together. God meets both of his self-established criteria he has foretold events accurately and They come to pass exactly as he says they're going to happen and he now declares the future says Isaiah.

And it's interesting you look at prophecy fulfilled prophecy and I won't bore you with a bunch of numbers, but the The odds of all of the fulfilled prophecies in the scripture coming to pass by chance are in the hundreds of thousands to one.

Essentially you cannot account for it by just it just happened that way, you know the luck of the draw the The odds, you know. Anyway Sometimes Sometimes we see if we if we look at the history of things that that God gets close, but he doesn't quite make it.

But then you go on a little further and you discover that guess what it came to pass. Exactly as God said it was going to be in his time. It might have taken longer than you thought. I'm thinking primarily that of the destruction of The destruction of Tyre it was predicted that Tyre would be thrown into the sea and Tyre was destroyed.

But it wasn't thrown into the sea the citizens of Tyre retreated to an island and They built a city out there, but along comes Alexander and he says I'm gonna get those guys. And the way I'm gonna do it is I'm gonna build myself a causeway out to their island and march my army across it.

Guess what? He used to build a causeway with the rubble that had been Tyre and so exactly as God predicted the stones of Tyre were cast into the sea and Here comes Alexander and his army and the folks that thought they were so safe discovered it.

That wasn't true after all. What do you know? So God also states glory belongs to God alone and God doesn't share. God has accurately foretold the future. Because he brought it to pass. Now you you may have wondered up to now.

Why is it so important that God be able to foretell the future? Well several things rest on that not the least of which is our security and salvation, but This is the real point. The reason that God accurately foretells the future is that he brings it to pass.

He's not predicting the future like somebody looking into a cosmic crystal ball. It's like if you go down to the Boston Harbor. You see a ship coming into the harbor and if you're with an old salt. It's been around, you know forever and he's always been working out of Boston.

He can look at that ship and he said I know where that ships going. Because you know I recognize what kind of a ship it is and I know what docks handle that kind of cargo and so forth and so on. And he might be right but on the bridge of that ship is a harbor pilot and The harbor pilot says I know where this ship is going.

Because he is causing it to go there he is the one who is giving orders that sets the course of the ship and all the rest of it and So he can say he can predict the future. Because he's causing it to happen.

And this is exactly the same sense in which God predicts the future because he has the power to bring it to pass. When God says something is going to happen you can take it to the bank because God's going to make it happen.

Exactly the way he said. So God in if you want to look at it this way God doesn't so much predict the future as. Tell us what he's going to do. When God says this is going to happen that's going to happen.

Cyrus is going to rise up. He's really telling you this is a preview of coming attractions. This is what I'm going to do in the future. Just sit back and watch and watch me work. Third passage. Chapter 43 verses 8 to 13.

I'm reading out of the English Standard Version, by the way. Bring out the people who are blind yet have eyes who are deaf yet have ears all the nations gathered together and The people assemble who among them can declare this and show us the former things.

Let them bring their witnesses to prove them right and let them hear and say it is true you are my witnesses declares the Lord and My servant whom I have chosen that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he.

Before me no God was formed nor shall there be any after me. I Am the Lord and besides me there is no Savior. I declared and saved and proclaimed. When there was no strange God among you and you are my witnesses declares the Lord and I am God.

Also, henceforth. I am he there is none who can deliver from my hand. I work and who can turn it back again, we contrast between the true God and false gods and He directs these remarks. To the blind and the deaf who thought they could see in here.

In other words the nation of Israel. Now the same prophet prophet Isaiah when he gets up to chapter 53. He's going to talk about this. Who has believed our report into whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

He says in chapter 53. You know, I am predicting I'm predicting the coming of the Messiah and you aren't paying attention people and This is why when Jesus came Jesus turned to the Pharisees. Who were the religious leaders and said it was your job?

To point to me and say this is the Messiah and you're not doing your job. You know, you're supposed to be guiding the people of Israel. Religious leaders and you're not doing your job. You're missing it so he talks to those who are blind and to those who are deaf who thought they could see and who thought they could hear and God asserts once again that he is the only Lord and the only Savior and He links his deity to his role as Savior.

Why can God save? Because he's God the false idols cannot save. Why would you put your faith in something like that? Again, Isaiah will in another place. Isaiah will say isn't it comical? That a man goes out in the woods and he chops down a tree and he uses some of that wood to cook with and he uses some of that wood to make furniture out of and The leftovers he whacks that up and he says behold, here's God and I'm going to pray to this a God like that can't do anything a God like that can't move a God like that can't see a God like that can't hear it's a God with a real problem and So why would you put your faith for your eternal salvation in something that cannot see?

Cannot hear and cannot move and Yet people do that all the time they still do it to this very day. They may not make little figures figurines that they set in the niche in the wall, but nonetheless effectively, that's what they're doing.

God links his deity to his role as Savior his ability to save is directly related to the fact that he is God and So when you attack God's foreknowledge you are attacking his deity and you are attacking his ability to save and That is why Heresies like open theism are so dangerous and that is also why they are heresies.

They're not just disputes. There are disputes that go on within the body of orthodoxy and They've gone on ever since we formed the church and they will probably go on until the day Jesus comes. That's that's one thing.

This is something entirely different heresy is when you are attacking the fundamental bedrock that the faith rests on and When you start attacking attacking the deity of God, that is exactly what you're doing.

That is exactly what you're doing. And so he says God has declared and God has saved. False gods do not declare false gods cannot save. Do not put your faith in them says Isaiah. And I'm not going to read every one of these passages.

But the next passage is chapter 44 6 to 8 in this passage he claims deity over all of Israel's history not just a few events and This is very critical because again At least some of the open theists Will say that okay.

God does have certain foreknowledge, but he does not have exhaustive foreknowledge. They say that God has foreknowledge only all only over over his purposes. Although how anything that happens is not part of God's purpose.

They don't explain that either but This is a refutation if you will of that argument. That God has partial foreknowledge here he claims He claims control over all of Israel's history. It is a general thing.

He makes the point that he knows and that he controls and Therefore he says in verse 8 do not tremble and do not be afraid afraid. God is the rock. God is the rock. Don't tremble don't be afraid. I have everything in my hands.

I am in charge. He says exactly the same thing to us. Don't tremble. Don't be afraid do not fret. Because all of human history is in my hands and everything is proceeding according to my plan. I have thought of everything.

I've got everything in mind. You know, I've taken care of everything. That's God's message to the Israelites that's God's message to us. But it gets better. Chapter 44 verses 24 to 28 in this passage here.

We go into specific predictions. Yeah, I don't know if they're different words or not. I don't know if they're different words or not. Well for one thing one's Hebrew and one's Greek but well Within that within the the exact passage where Jesus says that to Peter.

You're absolutely right. The rock used to describe Peter was a little pebble. But then Jesus what's what's Jesus say next and upon this rock? Meaning it's this gigantic boulder. I will build my church and.

And that refutes the idea that the church is built on Peter somehow that's a scary thought. But I don't know you might be able to that'd be an interesting study. I just I just don't know if it's if it's the same route for the Hebrew and the Greek.

That would be very interesting to explore. Okay back to it back to chapter 44. Here we go to specific predictions. God starts talking about specific things that are going to happen to the Israelites. First of all, he confirms in general the proclamations of his prophets.

He said when I send my prophets they are speaking for me and Therefore what they say you can count on. You can count on it happening. But he says I will I will inhabit Jerusalem. It's verse 26. He also predicts the rise of Cyrus.

Now this is 200 years before Cyrus will arise. God is predicting absolute details specific details of what whose Cyrus will be what he will do and There are going to be tens of thousands of free will choices.

That are going to be made in this 200 year period and Of course, that's the argument. Is that you know, well God created us with free will and When that term is used by the open theist. What they mean is a will that is totally unconstrained.

That there is nothing that affects it. That every choice that you make that a free will agent makes somehow happens in isolation. That anytime you choose a you could have also chosen non a and Just because you chose a the last ten times does not mean that you will choose a the next time it happens.

Every one of your choices is free. We call that sometimes. Sometimes we call that non-causal volition. If you want a bunch of $10 words to describe that. But the Bible number one does not support that idea.

The Bible says very clearly your will is in bondage. What did Jesus say to the Pharisees who said well, you know, we're sons of Abraham he says no you're not your son's the devil and. You will do the work of your father.

That is your nature. Your nature is fallen and you will act in accordance with your fallen nature. So that if God does not come along and work a work of grace in our lives. And give us a new life and a new nature.

We have some serious problems to deal with. Because we act in accordance to our nature and so this whole idea. That that God doesn't guide our choices. Of course God guides our choices. Now that's not the same as coercing our choices.

And that's the argument. Of course is constantly used. Is that well God I'm just a robot. But I'm not just a robot. You can't hold a robot. Responsible for its for its choices because you programmed it.

God does hold us responsible for our choices. We are held responsible. That's what makes us moral agents. I've used the illustration before. If you are down in Louisiana and you stick your hand down in a bayou and an alligator comes along and whacks it off.

You cannot arrest the alligator for that because that's what alligators do. He that's he's made like that. Alligator sees ah something in the water chomp. Got it. You know. He's but if someone comes along and attacks you and harms you another human being that person can be arrested because he's morally responsible for what he did.

So moving along. He talks about Cyrus and Consider all of the tens of thousands of free will choices that are going to take place to bring Cyrus. Exactly where God said he will be. Exactly when God said he would be there and that Cyrus then would do.

Precisely what God said he would do to the point that God calls Cyrus my servant. Even though Cyrus is a pagan He is still doing God's will. He is still doing God's will. He's doing exactly what God has laid out for him to do.

Same thing in chapter 45 verses 1 to 7 you have more of the specific details for what God will do will do for the pagan King Cyrus and this requires. That God knows and precisely regulates future events.

That God really does have these things in his hand now. This does cause us some problems. I'll divert here for just a little bit. This causes us a few problems because We are then led to the conclusion that what we see as disasters.

Either natural disasters or human disasters are somehow under God's control. Yeah. You may have heard people asking the questions, you know. Well, where was God when Hurricane Katrina came ashore and went through blew through New Orleans.

I can tell you where God was. God is where God always is. He's in heaven and he is watching over everything that goes on. I Do not pretend to explain how this fits into his plan, but I can assure you that it does and Unfortunately, there have been some some Evangelical pastors and what-have-you are men who claim to be evangelical who have been asked about this and they've been dodging the issue people who should know better.

Have dodged the issue because we don't like the idea. Do we? That God would Supervise over something like that or make it even worse. How about the Holocaust? That God would supervise over something like that or World War two or World War one.

You know, how could that be? And that helps to explain a little bit. I think some of the motivation behind the open theists. They're trying to sort of excuse God, but God doesn't need to be excused. God says I do what I do for my purpose and My purpose is going to come to pass and I will work out everything.

All of the aspects of life and I will work them together and I will work them together. For what the Bible calls the good which is the plan of God. And we don't have to explain everything. Yeah Mark. Yeah, that's a very good point.

I'm glad you brought that up mark. It's true. Do not fall into that trap of Thinking that just because something that we consider bad has happened to One of God's Saints that somehow God's getting them for something you know, we live in a fallen world a great deal of the Of the things that come into our life come into our life just because we live in a fallen world.

You know and God is allowing evil to run its course. God is going to allow evil to run its course, you know, why didn't he just stop? Why didn't he stop everything? When Adam sinned and just start over he certainly could have done that.

Now he's gonna let evil run its course and bring glory to himself. He brings glory to himself step by step as he as he deals with us if you want to look at it this way. You are all soldiers in God's army and you are behind the lines and he is protecting you every instant of the day as You sit you are in enemy territory.

You're not on the on you're not back with the good guys, you know. You're in you are functioning in enemy territory and he does put his hands around you. He surrounds you. You know, if you could only see them you could see the angels with the chariots of fire surrounding you just like Elijah's servant did.

So he protects us and it it's all to bring him glory. It's all to bring him glory. So he goes on in chapter 45 verses 18 to 25 contrast between the true God and and wooden idols and Notice what he talks about only the true God can create out of nothing.

The true God creates ex Nilo. He speaks and the universe came into existence. That's a question that is an ultimate question that has never been answered by any evolutionist because they have no answer the question of why is there anything as Opposed to nothing all logic says there should be nothing and Yet there is something where did it come from?

And that is an ultimate question. That the naturalists I won't say the evolutionist but the naturalist because naturalism is as much a religion as any other. They have no answer for that. God creates out of out of nothing ex Nilo and Only the true God speaks the truth with a capital T.

God speaks the truth. Wooden idols do not speak at all. They don't speak the truth. Wooden idols cannot save. Wooden idols cannot foretell the future. Wooden idols cannot send forth their word, but God says I send forth my word.

The word capital W goes forth and It does what it? Accomplishes the purpose to which I send it says God and Then he also if you go forward several hundred years from here God is going to send out the word incarnate in the person in the person of his son.

Which as Hebrew says this is the final word from God? What I've what I'm gonna say. I have said when I send my son and so God and his word are absolutely righteous. Then let's move along. I've quoted this several times already.

Chapter 46 verses 8 to 11. Remember this and stand for and stand firm recall it to mind you transgressors. Remember the former things of old for I am God and there is no other I am God. There is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and From ancient times things not yet done.

Here We go again saying my counsel shall stand and I will accomplish all my purpose. Calling a bird of prey from the east the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken. I will bring it to pass.

I have purposed and I will do it. Isaiah 46 8 to 11. God will accomplish his purpose. We can count on that. God's counsel will stand and see it's very important for us to rest in this. God will accomplish his purpose.

God has the will to save. God has the ability to save. Now as human fathers. All too often we run into things that we have the will to do. Particularly with regards to our children, but we do just do not have the ability.

We just don't have the power. We don't have the resources and So we wind up not being able to do things that we wish we could do. But God does not fall into that category. God has the will and God has the ability and Therefore he will accomplish his purpose as a human father throughout my life.

There have been times when I have not been able to accomplish my purpose. But God doesn't suffer from that. God always accomplishes his purpose. God's counsel will stand. Here's another reference to Cyrus.

That's who the bird of prey from the east is. God states again his ability to bring to pass what he has purposed. That's what foreknowledge rests on. I Can not only tell you what's going to happen. I can tell you that with absolute assurance because I am going to cause it to happen says God.

So God doesn't wait to see if things are going to work out. He brings it to pass. So often we have to wait to see if it works out not God. God brings it to pass. Whatever he says he brings to pass. Then again, the last one is chapter 48 verses 3 to 8.

Where God states again that the authenticating sign of his deity is the reality and the truthfulness of his foreknowledge. So we have these these nine passages and this is the core of where you generally go when you are talking about the foreknowledge of God.

While The open theist would have us believe that God's foreknowledge extends only to his plans and purposes. The open theist cannot explain how some things can be in God's plan but not other things. See, that's the nature of sovereignty either your sovereign or you're not there's no such thing as being a little bit sovereign.

You know if you're sovereign you're sovereign and The one thing that the phrase that does not go along with sovereignty is have to see a Sovereign King does what he pleases because it pleases him. He does not answer to anyone.

He does not have to explain himself to anyone and God says I am the sovereign creator of the universe. I Created you and the pot. The clay does not speak back to the Potter if you've ever watched a Potter at work.

You know Potter reaches over grabs lumps of clay bunks it down on the wheel and starts in. I've never heard the clay say Yeah, could could you make it a little you know little curlicues here and I would read you know I'd really like a little gold trim around the edge.

Could you do that? The clay doesn't say anything. The clay just sits there and lets the Potter work. And that's what God says about his relationship to us. We're the clay. He's the Potter. The pots do not talk back to the Potter and so God is sovereign.

God controls and It is true that God does not explicitly state in Isaiah that he foreknows everything that will ever come to pass. He doesn't say that in so many words, that's the only model that fits what Isaiah does say.

Plus the fact you can go over to Hebrews 4 13 and there it does Explicitly say that all things are open to the Father. So God's foreknowledge is exhaustive. It is complete and So our confidence that God will accomplish his purpose for the future is Supported by reflecting on what he has done.

That's why it's so great to study prophecy, you know fulfilled prophecy if God can fulfill all of these things. Exactly as he predicted then he can take care of us as well. That's the whole point of these nine passages is that God has a long and far-reaching pattern of Predicting what will happen and bringing it to pass.

Now there are some other texts that you can go to. Deuteronomy 31 16 to 21 is one such Job 24 1. There are several in the Psalms and I won't go to every last one of them. But Psalm 139 is where David talks about God's detailed knowledge of him.

He says God you have. You have known me. You've analyzed me, you know, you see me when I lay down you see me when I rise up. Everything about me, you know, he says. Practically the entire book of Daniel particularly chapters 2 4 5 7 8 9 10 and 11 Talks about God's foreknowledge and God's bringing things to pass can just consider Daniel's life.

Daniel is picked up hauled off to a foreign country. Where instead of winding up as a slave he winds up as the top advisor to the king. But it doesn't end there because one of the things that you did whenever you conquered a country there's the first thing you did was kill off everybody that could possibly have threatened you in the new in your new regime and yet We find out that after the Medes and the Persians invented are invaded invented Invaded.

Daniel is right up there at the top again. God's taking care of Daniel all the way through this. It's also in the New Testament not just the not just the Old Testament. Matthew 6 8 the father knows your needs.

John 6 64 and 70 to 71 Jesus is foretelling Judas betrayal. Specifically Judas. John 12 37 to 41 Talking I where he refers back to Isaiah and Isaiah's prediction of Israel's unbelief. Hundreds of years before Jesus.

Isaiah is saying the Messiah is going to come and you guys are not going to believe him. John 21 18 and 19, that's Peter's death. Exactly how Peter's gonna die. John 13 verse 38 and also chapter 18 verses 25 to 27 that concerns Peter's denials.

Jesus is. Jesus tells Peter you're going to deny me and. Not just that you're going to deny me because you can make the argument that Jesus after three years being around Peter. He knows Peters. He knows what Peters like pretty much.

He knows what what what Peters made of and he can guess he makes pretty accurate. Yes, that that Peter is going to deny him. In fact, that's actually the argument that has been used in some of the open theist texts.

But Jesus just doesn't say oh, by the way, you're gonna deny me he said you're gonna deny me three times. Not two not four not one three exactly three times and. And as soon as you make the third denial the rooster is going to crow and the rooster is not even making freewill choices.