Radio Free Geneva: Jason Breda on John 6, Part I

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00:17

You'll constantly hear people that are Calvinist harp on this. Right, right, God's sovereign, God's sovereign, right, sovereign, sovereign, sovereign.

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They just keep repeating it, and they repeat it so much you start to think it's a Biblical truth. I'll help a needy,

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I'm mortal, it's plain faith.

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Jesus stands outside the tomb of Lazarus, he says, Lazarus, come out! And Lazarus said, I can't,

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I'm dead. That's not what he did, Lazarus came out. Do you mean to tell me a dead person can respond to the command of Christ?

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And then you take lessons from Judas White and Jeff Durbin. It shows in this kind of sequential format.

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Do you really believe that it parallels the method of exegesis that we utilize to demonstrate those other things?

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Um, no. Some new

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Calvinists, even pastors, very openly smoke pipes and cigars just as they drink beer and wine.

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Even Jesus cannot override your unbelief. You're quoting a verse like that to him, you know what it would sound like if he were listening to it?

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He wouldn't make any sense to him. A self -righteous, legalistic, deceived jerk. And you need to realize that he's gone from predeterminism, now he's speaking of some kind of middle knowledge that God now has to...

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I deny and categorically deny middle knowledge. Don't beg the question that would demand me to force you to embrace it.

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You're not always talking about necessarily God choosing something for no apparent reason, but you're choosing that meat because it's a favorable meat.

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There's a reason to have the choice of that meat. All right, well we are here with Radio Free Geneva.

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The only reason these programs go long is because of how long the introduction is.

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The theme is, it's 3 .03 already, so yeah, the theme goes very, very long.

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Welcome to the program if you're new to Radio Free Geneva. This is the dividing line, but once in a while we do something specific with a different introduction and outgoing music as well.

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Where we deal with the good, the bad, and the ugly as far as objections to Reformed theology.

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Now just this morning I was talking about the Calvinist Club on Twitter and the fact that I don't want to be a part of the

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Calvinist Club on Twitter. And the fact that there are a lot of Calvinists who can be really unenjoyable to be around.

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But you can love the theology and not necessarily love the people who embrace that theology or don't make good application of it any way you want to look at it.

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Anyway, some of you will recall that, I don't know, about two months ago, whenever I was last on the road,

04:30

Toward the end of my time, I think I was on the return trip. It's strange how I think about where I was when

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I did a program in the studio. It was on the return trip. Oh yes,

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I even remember where I downloaded the video at, which RV park I was at. Anyway, I responded fairly briefly.

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It was part of just a regular program. We didn't do a full, I don't think we did a full Radio Free Geneva. To Jason Breda, someone had sent me a link to a series of, if I recall, it was five videos.

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Basically, his claim is that he was a Calvinist for 10 years. Now he has renounced

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Calvinism and he is exposing Calvinism. He wants people to understand why they should be doing the same thing.

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Let me see, have we ever talked with former Calvinists before? Oh yes, many over the years.

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It's always been an interesting experience, to be honest with you.

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I had taken the time to download a couple of these videos.

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The first two, as I recall. They're very high quality.

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He does a very good job with the video and split screening and all sorts of camera effects.

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Way, way beyond anything I do. Of course, we do this live too. I don't think he does live stuff, so it's a little different.

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You can tell when he's talking how many times, even in one segment, he has stop, start, stop, start, stop, start.

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That takes a lot of time. It took me a lot of time last night just simply to time index what

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I'm using Note Studio here to be able to get to the key issues. I still could have done a whole lot more, but lots and lots of other things going on, which

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I mentioned on Twitter if you're interested in reading about that stuff. Anyway, but they're high quality and that makes them easy to find things because when you use the split screen, even when you're scrolling, you can be looking for a certain text over in the split screen and stuff like that.

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That's very useful, very helpful. I like that. So give him kudos for that. But what

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I did is I found a section on John 6 in listening initially, and I'm listening to it going, and so we responded to the points that he made on the dividing line, and he promised to give a response.

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He did a response video. Honestly, I didn't listen to it because it didn't involve John 6. That was the primary thing.

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I'm concerned about what the text says. I'm concerned about what this says. Why am I reformed?

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Because of what this says, I apply the same methods of interpretation to the passages on Reformed theology that I do on the deity of Christ or the

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Trinity or the Resurrection or Atonement, all sorts of things like that. And so the one on John 6 came out a few days ago.

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It had been a few weeks, but again, I can understand why with all the fancy stuff that he does.

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I'm just looking down here at a freeze frame, and I've got my water.

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Actually, it's got some electrolytes in it here. He's got a water cup that I'm not sure if he knew was in the shot, but just the way it looked at it, it looked like an old ashtray.

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It's not, but I saw someone recently, you know those things on Twitter where they post the old...

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How old does this make you if you recognize this stuff? And it was a

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McDonald's ashtray. Did they have ashtrays? Oh yeah, they had ashtrays when you were working at McDonald's.

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Rich has a degree in hamburgerology from McDonald's. That's his claim to fame, and back then you could still...

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I remember when people would smoke in McDonald's. Man, it drove me nuts. I'd be moving tables around and doing all the rest of this kind of stuff.

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Yeah. So anyways, boy, did we chase a rabbit on that one, didn't we? Whee! All right.

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So back to Radio Free Geneva. So I grabbed the response and I started listening through it, and first of all,

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Jason seems like a really nice guy. He is on a crusade, and that comes out over and over again.

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I'm not sure that he realizes how much it comes out that his big thing is anti -Calvinism now.

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And for most of us Calvinists, we're not into anti -Arminianism or whatever.

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You know, I mean, I deal with a wide variety of topics on this program and in this ministry, and hey, last night, this morning,

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I was trying to do this thing called peacemaking. Saying, hey, could we all stop?

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Could we all put our swords up for a while and stop hacking away at fellow believers or at least think through what you're saying about who is and who isn't a fellow believer?

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Anyway, Jason says some strong things about Calvinism. So I think it is important to start off by pointing that out.

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And so let's listen right here at the beginning.

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Oh, yes, I need to make sure. I actually turned that off. It would not have worked because I had listened to some things over here.

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So now hopefully it will work. Oh, yeah. Well, maybe not.

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Boy, that was slow. That worries me. You shouldn't have to click on it twice to get it to work. But anyway, here's, in his own words, some of the things that he has to say about Calvinism.

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My goal in doing this series, you know, going against Calvinism, isn't to tear down people, but it is to shine a light for the truth of what

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I see in the scriptures and really to help people see who God truly is. Because the

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Calvinistic perspective of who God is does make God's character and everything else different than what

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I now see as God's character. And so just know that the reason why I'm doing this is not to bash, it's not to condemn in any way, in that sense, any particular person.

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But it is to dismantle what I believe are the lies of the enemy that have been woven into the concept of what is known as Calvinistic Reformed Theology and just lay it out there that this is not who

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I think we see who God is. Okay, so lies of the enemy.

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I'm going to be refuting these things. This is not, I have a different perspective or, you know, you can take that view.

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I think there's a better view. These are the lies of the enemy. And so at the end of this video, and obviously we're skipping over a bunch of stuff.

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We'll go back to it, obviously. At the end of this video, you get similar language.

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How we come to know who Jesus is. And isn't it just like the devil to take something that is good, such as God's character and how he's worked in salvation and distort the truth and create lies and actually build a system that tries to advocate that this is a higher view of God.

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And this is how God gets all the glory and yet it's a falsification. It's not true.

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So notice what's on the screen there. Paint a different picture of God and his character.

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Create disunity within the body of Christ. Hiding the truth so people cannot find it. Blind the eyes of those seeking

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God. Lie and deceive. Now those are about as strong an assertion as you can possibly make.

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So when I have to say, as I will have to say a number of times in this program, that Brother Jason is wrong about what he's saying.

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When you hear quote -unquote former Calvinists pulling these guys out and lighting up the fire.

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There's a lot of fire going on right now this time of year. It's November. So I don't personally have a flamethrower.

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You don't have a flamethrower yet? They're selling them. They're actually going to sell no -quarter -November flamethrowers.

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It really wouldn't work too well in here. It's sort of a small studio for that. But we could go out in the side yard.

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No? Rich is saying I can't have a flamethrower. Because this guy would go up so fast.

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Anyway, I know you did take the bick away. But I know where I have my bicks stored. And I like those new electronic ones that do the little sparky thing.

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Instead of having to worry about propane and whatever it is. Those are cool. Anyway, straw men.

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Yes. Why is it that former Calvinists erect so many straw men?

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And say, I used to believe this. And we're all sitting there going, no you didn't. None of us believed that.

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What are you talking about? And that's what I had said when I did my first response.

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Was, why does this happen? I don't really understand this.

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But there is a very strong anti -reformed, anti -Calvinist bias.

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And I don't think that Brother Jason recognizes. He's always saying, well the Calvinists read this in and read that in.

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And he makes a lot of, I think, sort of silly assertions. That, well notice it doesn't say this or it doesn't say that.

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As if any of us had ever said that certain terminology, certain language.

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Is actually found in the pages of scripture. We are synthesizing the entirety of scripture on certain topics.

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But he has embraced a form of synergism. Which, again, when you don't realize it is your system.

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Then you're back to the old Dave Hunt thing. I have no traditions, James. And, well yes

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Dave, actually you do. And the less you're aware of your traditions, the less likely it is.

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You're going to be able to actually examine your traditions biblically. But the main thing that we're going to do today.

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Is in looking at his attempt to work through John 6.

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I think he's gotten a lot of this from Leighton Flowers. I know he's been influenced by Ken Wilson.

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There's no question about that. But the argument seems to be pretty much the Leighton Flowers argument.

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Which is fundamentally that the people that are given by the father to the son. Are those who are already worshippers of the father.

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And that freely. So that gets you around the whole election issue.

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Is that people can freely choose to be worshippers of the father. And then the father will give them to the son.

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There's a problem with that, obviously. Because they'll admit that John 6 .44

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says. No one can come to Christ unless drawn by the father. So you can't come to one person of the

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Godhead. But you can freely come to another person of the Godhead. And didn't

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Jesus make the reverse claim in Matthew 11. That he reveals the father to those whom he wills.

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You could end up with some interesting Trinitarian issues here. If you try to go this direction.

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But I'm not sure that they've really thought through. That your soteriology and your theology proper.

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Might need to be somewhat connected. Or consistent with themselves. So let's get into it.

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And sit back. Enjoy. Take notes. Hopefully this will be useful to folks.

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I will try to be somewhat concise. But we will see.

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Now you'll see on the screen here. There are Calvinistic connected scriptures. In the

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Gospel of John. I think there are definitely three main texts. That the Calvinist would draw out as the reason.

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As to why they believe that John chapter 6 advocates for Calvinism. I'm going to include that there's a fourth one.

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And they're all kind of in that John 6 .37 through 6 .65 range.

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Now. Okay. Honestly I did not get the feeling that. Brother Jason.

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Has listened to any of the extensive. Studies and exegesis we've done of John chapter 6.

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I didn't get that feeling. And. Obviously.

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There is a flow. That comes out of.

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The conversation that begins in the synagogue. When Jesus comes to Capernaum. Walking in the water. The disciples.

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Would be disciples. Follow him and. Once they find him. Conversation of the bread of life begins and things like that.

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But then you have. Jesus' statement. You have seen me but you are not believers. You're not believing in me.

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And through. At least. Verse 45 is the key text.

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That then moves back into Jesus. Body is. And blood.

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The issue of. The centrality of him as a source of life. And then yeah.

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You get you get into the end. And Jesus is saying to them. In the imperfect. Repetitively in the past.

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He's saying. To them no one. No one can come to me unless it has been granted by the father.

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And then you have the disciples walking away. The 11 at least.

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To whom else shall we go. And you have the words of eternal life. And that kind of thing.

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And so. That's sort of obvious. It's not like. It's not like any of these verses are separated from each other.

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There is a. There is a clear connection. In fact you can't just say verse 39.

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Because it's. It's 37 through 45. Minimally as a block.

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And the only way. To exegete these texts. Meaningfully is to follow. And allow the text to define.

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What terms you know. I'll raise them up to eternal life. Who's being raised up to eternal life. If you don't just walk through the text.

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And I don't mean just read all of John 6. He read all of John 6 in this video. I mean literally read.

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Read the English translation. I think from the New King James Version. I'm like okay.

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It's an hour and a half video. It didn't need to be an hour and a half video. You didn't need to do that. That's not what exegeting the text is.

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It's not just simply sitting there reading it in English. It's following the meaning. It's pulling out the meaning.

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In a consistent fashion. In following the text through. This is. Not something that I.

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You know. When he talks about how to do hermeneutics. He uses perfectly good language.

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Of. Not reading your thoughts into the text. Context and historical background.

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All that's fun stuff. But then when you get to actually doing it. That's not what's happening. It's a little bit.

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A little bit strange. So here's a. Here's a summary statement.

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That will help us to sort of put stuff together. What the Calvinist draws. Is to a conclusion.

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Contextually and what they see. In the text. Is that the father draws people. And gives people to the son.

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The son will not lose anyone. In verse 39. And no one can come to the father.

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Unless the father draws him. I think he meant. No one can come to the son. Unless the father draws him.

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In verse 44. And then. Knowing that not all people will be saved. Their logical deduction.

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Of what they believe. Is then just put in the text. Is that.

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The father doesn't draw everyone. Because if the father has to draw someone. And then give him to the son.

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And we know that not all people. Will be saved. Then the father is obviously not drawing. Every single person.

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And then giving them to the son. Or else there'd be universalism. And so that's the argument. That's the reason.

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That's the logic that they have behind. These verses now connecting it. Well that's not why they're connected.

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Our beliefs flowing from the connection. Those verses themselves have. Which is what's problematic here.

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Because for example. I don't think he ever. And again I don't think. It did not strike me.

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That he had ever listened to. Any of the many. Many times.

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We have walked through. John chapter 6. And I think everyone would admit. Even my critics would admit.

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When we walk through. John chapter 6. Where's the.

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Huh. I don't have one of the original versions. Of this in here. I need to track that down.

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But this is the. More current printing. Of my little book drawn by the father.

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This came out. Originally. Wow. Well this says 2000.

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But it was well before that. That was the reprint from great Christian books. The original was right around.

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The same time as this. Actually so this would be. 91. Um. So.

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We've been. We've been giving the same. Uh. Interpretation.

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Understanding of John chapter 6. For. 30 plus years.

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Consistently. On this program. Um. In books. In debates.

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I think. That radio debate. It really wasn't technically a debate. But that radio discussion

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I had with Jimmy Akin. Included John chapter 6 too. And that was quite some time.

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Back. So we've been very consistent on this. Very very consistent for a long long time. And. It just does not seem to me that he had.

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He's even familiar with that. So for example one of the key. Textual realities.

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That I. Emphasize. In John chapter 6. Is that. All. In John 6.

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44. All who are drawn by the father to the son. Are raised up by the son.

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And synergism requires there to be a. Distinction there. Well unless you take.

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What sounds like the perspective. That's being made here. I'm not sure we'll find out. We'll listen to it together.

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But for most synergists. That's what they do. They break up John 6 .44. And they say the father draws everyone.

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But. It's your free will choice. As to whether you're going to accept or reject that. And therefore there's.

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There's people who are drawn. But who will not be raised up by Jesus. Due to their own.

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Not. Contributing what they need to contribute. For that to take place. So.

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That's not even addressed. John 6 .45. Is quoted by him a number of times.

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Not recognizing that. What 6 .45 is describing. Is what the drawing of the father actually is. So. He attempts.

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To engage the text. On a level. But what we're going to discover. Fairly quickly here.

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Well I'll wait. Let me. Finish off this statement.

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And then we'll get to that. As James White said. You just read the text and it's plainly there.

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And. It's not. And I'm going to explain why. The big contention is.

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Does the father only draw some people. Meaning that. Is God only saving an elect.

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Group of people. Does John chapter 6. Support Calvinism.

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That's the argument. That's the claim. And we're here to debunk both of those things. Today. Okay.

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So again. There's a purpose statement. We're going to debunk Calvinism. Okay. Let's see if Calvinism ends up getting.

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Debunked in the process. To every man. Okay. So just highlight how many times.

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Everyone. Every man. Anyone who believes.

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Will be saved. Just reference. Do a catalog of that. Now the thing that struck me here.

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Is that he seems to think this is. In opposition to reformed theology. And once again. How many times have

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I said it. There has never been anyone. Who turned in true faith.

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To Jesus Christ. Who did not find him to be a perfect and powerful savior. The issue is.

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Who turns in true faith. To Jesus Christ. Where does true faith come from.

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What's the nature of true and saving faith. What's the nature of man. And his rebellion. There's all sorts of things there.

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But the issue is not. Well it's not believing. Believing is not important in Calvinism.

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And it's like. No again. This is what makes you wonder.

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What someone was doing for ten years. Simply. Simply being in a church.

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That calls itself something. Does not mean that you yourself. Embrace that or even fully understand.

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What's being preached from the pulpit. Okay. What's interesting is Calvinism. Really holds on to the five points.

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Where I really think that. They don't have an argument. For all five points. Because limited atonement.

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John Calvin didn't even believe in. So it's just amazing to me. That that is the case.

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John Calvin advocated so strongly. For the other points. But did not.

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Even in his commentary. Believe that Jesus death and his atonement. Was for the entire world.

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Okay so I asked him. And I didn't. I should have asked him. Have you read Dr. Nichols article.

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On this very subject. I didn't. I don't think he ever has. But I asked him.

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In your ten years as a Calvinist. When did you read. The death of death and death of Christ.

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By John Owen. Because you just said. They don't have an argument. For limited atonement. And I'm like.

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How do you make that. Kind of a statement. I mean you can. Get into this argument.

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And I think he's getting a lot of this. From Alan. Who gets it from.

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An Amaraldian fellow. I knew years and years ago. But doesn't seem to understand.

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There's another side to these things. Or it's disputable. Or anything like that at all. But have you read the death of death.

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And death of Christ. We have lots of strong arguments. For particular redemption.

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Limited atonement. I can draw them out of Romans chapter 8. Hebrews chapter 7.

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Hebrews chapter 9. Hebrews chapter 10. I can pull them from all sorts of places. And have.

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And didn't you ever hear any of these things being preached. In your Calvinistic church. I just.

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Again that's what I don't understand. Why sit there. Look into a camera and say. They don't have any arguments for this.

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I can forgive them for only reading certain people. And not being aware.

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Of the other side. Regarding Calvin on this topic. That's irrelevant.

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To say that there are no. Arguments for it. Obviously never read the potter's freedom.

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God's sovereign grace. Any of my books on the subject. Because we have entire chapters. On this exact.

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Issue. It's sort of like. That's really strange. That you would.

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Come to that conclusion. What were you doing for 10 years? There's over 90 times.

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That the word believe. Is mentioned. And then you look back at the context.

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And James kind of. Skirted this issue. Where my first bullet point.

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In John chapter 6. We need to understand John. Through the lens of. Why the book says it was written.

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And John 20. Says that these things are written. So that you may believe.

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And that by believing. You will have life in his name. And so.

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We see the order there. Is faith. Proceeds regeneration. Again. Let me just. Again.

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No Calvinist. Has any problem. With belief.

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Believing. The use of. Scripture means. To bring this about.

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Nobody has any problem with that. And. To try to turn.

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John 20 31. Into an. Ordo salutis passage. When it's simply.

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Saying that. Those who believe have life in his name. It's not saying. You have the ability.

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As a rebel center against God. To do what's pleasing before God. That is to have saving faith. Which will result in regeneration.

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You talk about putting something in the text. That ain't there. It's right there on the screen.

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Right now. There's what you mean. By putting something in there.

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That isn't there. But again. We're just sitting here wondering. What is this all about?

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Why come to these conclusions? Also the focus is to anyone. Anyone who believes.

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Will have everlasting life. It didn't say anyone. It said that you may.

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The one who had received this. Word from God in scripture. Again.

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Reading into the text. Anyone. No election. Whosoever. Which is actually everyone believing.

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Which doesn't come up. But we will have to point out. Fairly soon now.

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That brother Jason does not understand. The Greek language. And he made many.

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Numerous errors. In this video. As we will point out. So I really don't know.

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That he would be able to recognize. That when in John 3 .16. Whosoever is literally.

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All the believing ones. Because he doesn't understand the difference. Between verbs and participles. And confuses them all the time.

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And we'll see that coming up here. Emphasis that we see. And this is the reason that John says.

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This is why this book was written. Okay. It never ever ever says.

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That all the elect believe. It never says that. So we got to be careful. This is really.

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Invalid argumentation. This is on the exact. Same level.

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As when my Muslim friends say. I can show them. Jesus.

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I'm preaching on the. I am sayings of Jesus. On Sunday for example. And I can show them.

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Jesus using the I am sayings of Jesus. I can show them. He accepts. The confession of Thomas.

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My Lord and my God. I can show them all these sayings. And what's their response. But it doesn't anywhere have

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Jesus saying. I am God. Worship me. So because those specific words don't appear.

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He can be worshipped by his disciples. He can be called God by his disciples. But that's not enough.

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Because you've got to have these specific words. Which no Calvinist has ever said. You have those specific words in the first place.

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But he keeps doing this. Over and over again. Saying. Well it doesn't use this phraseology.

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It doesn't use that phraseology. As if that's an argument. It can be turned on his position.

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Just as easily. When we expose the presuppositions. That he is embracing. And has embraced.

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In his new synergistic perspective. He's embracing all sorts of presuppositions. And we could point them out.

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And say. But it's not in this phraseology. But what good is that? Unfortunately it's a waste of time.

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Of inserting words. And inserting our presuppositions into words. When it comes to reading the scriptures.

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Let's just deal with what the text says. Yes let's do that. Don't put things on the text that aren't supposed to be there.

35:36

Just read what it says. But I know that if you do that. Then you're not going to fall into Calvinism.

35:44

Because it's whosoever believes. It's actually every believing one.

35:52

You're putting something in there. I'm sorry you just don't seem to be aware of it.

35:57

As we will see. As we go along here. Just a couple more before we get into.

36:04

Some of the real heart of the issue here. We're 25 minutes in actually.

36:09

And then in John 6 .27. This is in the context of John 6. Jesus says.

36:15

Do not labor for food which perishes. But for the food which endures to everlasting life.

36:21

Which the Son of Man will give you. Because God the Father. Has set his seal on him.

36:28

And him is meaning Jesus. Not him meaning the. Receiver of that seal.

36:35

Okay. And this is where it's helpful to know. This is just one small element.

36:40

Why I appreciate. The new King James. Is that him is capitalized. And it's just good to know.

36:48

That when anything that is referencing. Who God is versus a person. If you don't know.

36:53

Especially for a new Bible reader. It's going to be super helpful to know. That him is not about him.

36:59

Him is in a general sense of anyone who. God the Father. Has set his seal on.

37:05

God has set his seal on the Son of God. Okay. Jesus. That's who he set his seal on.

37:10

And we might miss those things. I don't think one that is a. A true studier of the word.

37:17

But anyone that's a new believer. And you're being fed Calvinism. And you read that. Even though you probably weren't taught it.

37:23

It might advocate and make you think. Okay this is another text. That's advocating for Calvinism.

37:29

Because you don't know that him. Is meant to refer to Jesus. And not mankind in general.

37:37

See what happens when you get fed Calvinism. I listen to this. I'm sitting there going.

37:42

You do realize the capitalization. Of pronouns in regards to deity. Is completely editorial.

37:49

The NASB does it. NKJV does it. I don't think the ESV does. It's completely editorial.

37:55

There's nothing in the original language. That indicates capitalization in any way shape or form. The original

38:00

New Testament. Is written in all capital letters anyways. So there wouldn't be any way to even indicate that. But.

38:07

And I can't even imagine. I mean Calvin never said that. I've never.

38:13

It's obvious what it's saying. But you see. You're starting to hear this. Calvinism is the big boogeyman.

38:20

It's that bad thing. You've got to try to avoid. And it's like. But that's not even an issue.

38:27

I can't begin to understand it. So it's. A little bit strange.

38:33

Now he did sort of jump ahead of himself. And he admits that. But this is where we start getting into.

38:39

Some of the interesting areas. In regards to claims. Regarding the original text.

38:44

To this. And then the word all is used. And it doesn't.

38:51

Explicitly say what all means. In John 6 .37. But let's read it again.

38:57

All that the Father gives me. Will come to me and the one who comes to me. I will by no means cast out. I've got two things here.

39:04

Because. We're going to go into this. All that the Father gives me.

39:10

Will come to me. One thing I want you to notice. And I'm going to be jumping ahead.

39:15

Probably a little bit. In making this comment from the notes that I have. Is that all.

39:20

Does not say all elect people. All people that were given. Before the foundation of the world.

39:26

It doesn't say those things explicitly. So before we jump in. And say that's what it is.

39:33

Contextually communicating. We need to pause. Back up and just say. Is that what it's actually saying.

39:40

Okay. So just. Take off the Calvinism glasses. And let's back up.

39:47

And let's really now. Look through the context. And of course. All we need to do is look at that text.

39:55

All. That the Father gives me. Will come to me. The giving.

40:04

By the Father. Precedes. Conditions and determines. The coming.

40:10

To Jesus. So every person who has come to Jesus. Does so.

40:18

Because they have been given. To Jesus. By the Father. There is no such thing.

40:25

As a person who comes to Jesus. Outside of having been given. By the

40:30

Father. To the Son. That's the issue. Now if you want to put that together.

40:36

With what you get from. John 10. And John 17. And Ephesians 1 and Romans 9.

40:43

And come up with a theology to describe all this. Fine. But the point is.

40:50

That there is a. Unquestionable. Reality.

40:56

In the text. That the giving of the Father. Determines.

41:03

Coming to the Son. And that's in the context by the way. Of Jesus just having said. You don't believe in me.

41:09

And he said that to people who rode boats across the lake. To come hear him speak. You don't believe in me.

41:17

And by the end of the chapter. They are going to walk away. They are going to walk away.

41:22

Demonstrating the truthfulness of what he was saying. So. Don't be distracted by all the.

41:28

Well it doesn't use this phrase. That's completely irrelevant. It's obviously been effective.

41:36

In convincing him. But. It's irrelevant argumentation.

41:43

And that's one of the valuable things. About engaging this way. Is to be able to.

41:49

Demonstrate that. So now. Here is the primary thesis. Here is the primary thesis.

41:58

That. I think is really. Behind all of this. And I really think this.

42:05

Has been taken from. Layton Flowers. It. Seems to have the same.

42:16

Underlying. Concepts here. Let's hear what it says. So if you've heard.

42:23

And you've learned. You now are basically given. The opportunity to now.

42:28

Choose to trust. Or choose to reject. So we're seeing this theme.

42:34

Woven through the gospel of John. So here's what I see what's being communicated.

42:40

If you do not believe in the Father. You will not come to the Son. If you know

42:45

God the Father. You would come to the Son. This is the context. Of the book of John.

42:51

Before Jesus gets to John chapter 6. And after John chapter 6. So look at before.

42:57

So John 5 38. It says. But you do not have his word abiding in you.

43:03

Because whom he sent. Him. That being Jesus himself. You do not believe.

43:10

I just realized something. None of the pronouns here capitalize. I'm sure that was just a.

43:20

Whoops. In copying and pasting. I suppose. I don't know. But given what was said earlier.

43:26

I was sitting here going. Those are supposed to be capitalized. At least.

43:33

In light of what was said before. Okay anyway. So Jesus tells him.

43:38

You don't believe. Because the word is not abiding in you. You are not a true worshiper of the one true

43:44

God. And if you were. You would believe. So catching this. If you're a worshiper.

43:50

Of the one true God. Then you're going to believe in Jesus. And you have the ability.

43:56

Freely of yourself. Not outside of any. Choosing by God the father. So the election.

44:04

Of the father. Is simply to give. True worshipers.

44:10

People who truly worship him. Freely by their own free will. Choice meets. To the son.

44:18

That's. So it's not personal. Election. It's a general.

44:24

I will do this. In light of people who do this. Type of an idea. Okay. Getting that idea.

44:34

Understanding. That's what he's saying. John 5 .42 -43a.

44:39

But I know that you do not have. The love of God in you. I have come from my father's name.

44:47

And you do not receive me. Okay. Now you see what's going on here. This is the chapter right before John chapter 6.

44:53

So that's very important. Okay. So this is similar to what

44:59

Michael Brown did too. He went to John chapter 5. And Jesus is saying. You know.

45:04

If you truly loved God. You would love me. And that's great, fine, wonderful.

45:11

Problem is. There. Who is Jesus addressing? This is something that amazes me. They talk about context all the time.

45:17

But they don't notice something. In John chapter 5. He's talking to Pharisees.

45:23

He's talking to religious leaders. He's talking to individuals who make.

45:29

Who have. Religious standing in the community. And in John chapter 6.

45:36

Who is he talking to? Unknown individuals. Who. Have rode across the lake.

45:45

After hearing him speak. And they're looking for more signs. You fed 5000 yesterday.

45:51

Cool. We'll even make you king. But they're just.

45:57

They're just a crowd. And they're looking for signs. And they've.

46:03

They think they've seen. Something really cool. But they haven't gotten it. And they become scandalized.

46:09

When Jesus says. Don't work for the bread that perishes. But for that which abides unto eternal life.

46:16

That is me. They become scandalized. By the centrality of who Jesus is.

46:23

And so. There's a different context there. Then you get here into John chapter 8.

46:28

And I think this is really important. Because. There are key texts.

46:35

In John chapter 8. That. Turn. The normal synergistic.

46:43

Perspective on it's head. And so let's see what. Brother Jason has to say. Now after John chapter 6.

46:52

841B -42A. Says. Then they said to him. We were not born of fornication.

46:58

We have one father. God. Jesus said to them. If God were your father.

47:06

You would love me. Because if you were a true worshiper of the one true God. You would know that Jesus has come.

47:12

To fulfill and finish the work. And that God has given. All life and authority and judgment to him.

47:18

Now it's disappointing. That he stops where he does. He stops at 42A.

47:25

But notice what actually says. Jesus said to them. If God were your father you would love me. For I proceed forth and have come from God.

47:33

For I have not even come of myself. But he sent me. Why do you not understand. What I am saying.

47:41

It is because. You cannot hear my word. You cannot hear my word.

47:48

There is a fundamental. Incapacity. In you.

47:53

Now hearing. And seeing. I can't tell you how many times.

47:59

I've said one of the most fruitful studies you can do. And I've recommended to people. For years and years and years.

48:05

Look at seeing and hearing. In John. The blind man.

48:11

Who ends up being able to see. Or those who see. Can't see. And here.

48:18

You cannot hear my word. Well. How are you supposed to have saving faith. If you can't hear his word.

48:25

Something has to change. Well you are of your father the devil. And so he does get to a.

48:33

Important text. When he gets to. 46. He who is of God.

48:41

Hears the words of God. For this reason you do not hear them. Because you are not of God. It doesn't say.

48:48

You don't choose to be of God. Right. Since we are doing the. Doesn't say this doesn't say that thing.

48:54

It specifically says. He who is of God or belongs to God. Hears the words of God.

49:02

For this reason you do not hear them. Because you are not of God. So. They.

49:12

He would say that's right. They are not true worshippers of God. Right. And what is required.

49:18

To make them true worshippers of God. Didn't they have. The freedom.

49:24

The free will. To be able to do that on their own. Isn't that part of their capacity. That's one of the questions.

49:33

Okay. I need to keep us moving here. Okay. Again.

49:44

Central argument repeated one more time. When you look ahead at John 17. You see Jesus's prayer.

49:52

In 17. Father pray that they will be one. As we are one. And that these that you've given me.

49:59

Those that have. Been drawn by the father. And given to the son. Are ones that have been true worshippers of God.

50:06

And the true worshippers have come to God. Known him to be the one true God. And the father has given them now to the son.

50:13

So there it is. So. It's not. It's not. God doesn't have any freedom here.

50:21

You have. True worshippers of God. And there's.

50:27

There's no recognition that. Any true worshipper. Recognizes.

50:34

God's grace in their life. That made them a true worshipper. But these are.

50:41

True worshippers of God. Who evidently. Became true worshippers by their own free will.

50:47

By their own capacity. There's no election. And those are the only ones.

50:53

Evidently that the father can give to the son. But again.

50:58

As I pointed out earlier. This introduces a real conundrum. Because.

51:05

Jesus says no one can come to me. Unless the father who sent me draws them. But. They can come to the father.

51:15

Without being drawn. So. You can truly come to.

51:21

And worship. One member of the Godhead. But not another member of the Godhead. Without something special happening.

51:28

You see. What happens when you try to get around. What. What the

51:33

Bible is saying as a whole. You end up in some really. Messy places.

51:39

And where do you get any of that in scripture. Obviously you don't. That's not scriptural teaching.

51:47

And so. This is. A real problem here. So. We press on.

51:59

Alright. So if you look at verse 33. Again.

52:05

For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven. And gives life to the world.

52:11

The word gives. Is in a present active. It's a present active verb.

52:17

This means that the giving. Is an ongoing action. Or a habitual action.

52:23

That's taking place. Okay. And so Jesus is the bread of life. Come down from heaven by the father.

52:31

To do the father's will. And gives life to the world. And this giving is a continual thing.

52:37

That's happening. Okay. And so the present active verb. Tells us that that is what it means.

52:46

Okay. So this is where you start getting into. And eventually as we're going to see. He's going to put up on the screen.

52:52

Stuff from I think what's called the blue letter bible. I've not used it. Um. But it's a.

52:59

It's parsing stuff. Where it's parsing. The various terms.

53:06

And. Here's. Here's where you get into problems. Okay. Why don't you take him down a second.

53:14

Because what I need to do. Is I need to get. Um. Accordance about the same size.

53:22

So I can just pop it over. And just lay it over the screen. Without getting rid of the other one.

53:29

So that's what I'm. I'll just go ahead and leave this here for now. Is it?

53:38

Blue letter bibles from Calvary Chapel? Rich says blue letter bibles from Calvary Chapel.

53:46

I have no earthly idea. Like I said I've never used it. Um. Here is.

53:54

John 633. Um. And what he is saying.

54:05

Is. That gives. Is a.

54:11

Present. Active verb. And here's one of the problems. He doesn't know the difference.

54:18

Between a verb and a participle. Um. Because that's actually.

54:25

A present active participle. Masculine singular nominative. As you can see over on the right hand side there.

54:31

If you have accordance. Um. Catabinon.

54:38

Likewise. Is a substantival participle. Uh. The one coming down.

54:45

Out of heaven. And. What we're going to see.

54:54

A number of times. In this uh. Study. Is the danger of what

55:00

I saw happening. When. For a number of years I taught in the late 90s.

55:05

Into the early 2000s. I taught Greek and Greek exegesis. Hebrew and Hebrew exegesis.

55:11

For Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary. In their Arizona campus. And. I taught

55:19

Greek a number of times more than I taught Hebrew. They only asked me to do the Hebrew. Because the guy they had teaching

55:24

Hebrew. Couldn't get anybody through first year Hebrew. So they asked me and I managed to pull it off. But anyway.

55:32

I would have 15 weeks. 15 meetings. 3 hour meetings. So 45 hours grand total.

55:39

But. You generally. The first week is awash. Because you're doing introduction.

55:46

And the last week's awash. Because you've got the final. So you only have 13 weeks.

55:51

So you've got about 39 hours grand total. There were. Many weeks. During that time where you'd have to do 2.

55:59

Sometimes 3 chapters in one night. That is not ideal. I was teaching mounts. Which is great stuff.

56:08

It's very friendly. But it was really not designed. To go that fast either.

56:14

And. I was always concerned about teaching people. To hate Greek rather than to love Greek. And I certainly tried to do that.

56:22

But anyway. What happened eventually.

56:28

And I made mention of this. Before. Is that they changed stuff.

56:34

So you could actually fulfill. Your language requirement. In a Jan term class.

56:39

January term classes. I taught. Christian philosophy and religion a number of times.

56:45

Jan term classes. And they're. An intensive class that meets.

56:51

Just over the course of a number of days. Less than 2 weeks. And. To say that you have.

57:02

Studied Greek. By taking a Jan term class. Means all you're doing. Is learning how to use

57:07

Logos. Back then it was either Logos. Or Bible Works. I think those were about the only things.

57:14

PC Study Bible was around. But it wasn't as advanced as those anyways. And here's the danger.

57:21

These programs are wonderful. Parsing programs are wonderful. I'm sure Blue Letter Bible is just wonderful.

57:29

But if you don't actually learn. The language. You end up making.

57:35

Mistakes like this. A participle is not a finite verb.

57:42

And the one thing you need to understand is. Even when the participle. Is functioning.

57:48

In an. Verbal fashion. Over against substantival. So if it has an article.

57:54

It's functioning as the emphasis. A participle is a mixture. It has verbal aspects.

58:01

And substantive aspects. Noun aspects if you want to use that term. So it can have an article.

58:07

Just like a noun can. Verbs don't have articles. But it has tense mode and voice. But that's what verbs have.

58:16

And so participles. When. In second year. When I learned.

58:23

All the syntactical categories. From participles. That's when Greek really started to.

58:29

Pop for me. And. But it's very complicated.

58:35

And just learning. What present is. There are a number of times. You're going to hear him say. This is a present indicative active tense.

58:43

No. Those are three different things. And even say it that way. Shows ultimate confusion.

58:52

And to have this very simplistic idea. Of well the present always means this. And the aorist always means that.

58:58

No it doesn't. I warned people. When I taught them first year Greek. I said now we're getting toward the end of first year

59:05

Greek. And. You can now recognize. Now when

59:11

I first started teaching. Long long ago. Back in the 80's. I used. I don't have mine in here.

59:18

But I have. I even have my dad's version of it. My dad and I learned from the same grammar. Mantee.

59:24

Not Mantee. Davis. Yeah Davis' grammar. And. Once you.

59:34

Davis taught you what's called the 8 case system. So you had. Nominative, genitive, ablative.

59:42

Locative, instrumental, dative, accusative. And evocative. Most modern grammars now.

59:48

Use a 5 case system. Because. The genitive and the ablative. Have the same form.

59:56

And so to distinguish. Between them is really an interpretational thing. And then locative, instrumental, dative is all the same form.

01:00:02

And again it's. It's interpretational. As to how you're dealing with it. And so I tell my students.

01:00:09

You're so excited. That you can recognize genitives and ablatives now. Right. Once you start second year

01:00:15

Greek. You'll discover there are at least 12 different kinds of genitives. And a smaller number of ablatives.

01:00:21

But. The point is. That's right. Rich ran and got his copy.

01:00:29

The beginning grammar. Before we did mounts. And. What does it say?

01:00:35

It had my name on it? Oh yeah. I don't know why they did it with that.

01:00:42

Mine was the same way. It's never ever even. It's very strange. Anyway.

01:00:49

There's much more. To the basic. Identification. Of a noun as a genitive.

01:00:57

Or a verb as a present. There's all sorts of kinds of presents. There are historic presents.

01:01:02

Which have no emphasis whatsoever. On ongoing action. The historical present.

01:01:10

For example. I think the NASB. For years. Up to 1995.

01:01:16

I think they finally took it out. But they tried to indicate. When they were.

01:01:23

Translating a present. With a past tense. In English. Because it's being used.

01:01:30

As a historical present. It's not emphasizing ongoing action. At all. And you get into all of the verbs.

01:01:39

There's. In the imperfect. You can have.

01:01:46

An aggressive form. Because it's normally. Continuous action in the past. But it can emphasize the beginning of that action.

01:01:53

Or the end of that action. And there's all sorts of different kinds of eras. Even though that's the simplest way.

01:01:59

To state action. And it doesn't always mean point action. That's what I was taught initially.

01:02:05

But clearly that's not the emphasis there. Um. It's all very contextually based.

01:02:12

And it's a whole lot more. Than what you simply learn. Reading the instructions. On blue letter bible or something like that.

01:02:19

That's just looking at those. Once you get to the participles. You take all that.

01:02:25

And squish it together. And you end up. With something that he clearly doesn't understand.

01:02:32

And that is. That. You still have tense.

01:02:38

Uh. In the participle. But now. It is no longer based upon.

01:02:45

The perspective of the speaker. Or the writer. It's now based upon. The relationship of the participle.

01:02:51

To the main verb of the clause. Which now. If you've ever seen.

01:02:58

Just off the top of my head. I'm not going to go to it right now. And I need to hurry this up. You know the big dispute.

01:03:05

In Acts chapter 19. Did you receive the Holy Spirit. When you believed.

01:03:13

Pistius on this. I'm thinking it's. Off the top of my head. As I recall it was an aorist participle. Yeah sigma alpha is an aorist participle.

01:03:21

And. The King James. Translated did you receive the Holy Spirit.

01:03:27

Since you believe. Now whether you use when. Or since is interpretational.

01:03:35

Depending upon how you understand. How. An aorist participle.

01:03:41

Interacts with. I think it was. An aorist finite verb. Again I'm not going to bring it up right now.

01:03:49

Um. Because. A present tense participle with an aorist verb.

01:03:54

Is different than two aorists. Which is different. There's whole charts. Of the possibilities.

01:04:02

Of subsequent action. Concurrent action. Antecedent action. And it's all based upon.

01:04:08

You know the difference between a participle and a finite verb. Which brother

01:04:13

Jason doesn't. And so. He says a lot of really confusing stuff.

01:04:19

Confused stuff. Because he doesn't know. The language is painfully obvious to me. He does not actually read the language himself.

01:04:27

But he makes conclusions. About how Calvinism is wrong. Based upon his own misunderstandings.

01:04:33

Of the Greek language. And I can assure you. Uh. Calvinists have been very.

01:04:40

Strong in emphasizing biblical languages. The Puritans. You know in England in the 1600s.

01:04:46

You couldn't get your masters until you could debate in Greek. Not read Greek. Debate in Greek.

01:04:51

Which most people can't do today. I can assure you of that. So. This is sort of.

01:05:00

This is sort of important stuff. So he's saying. See it's giving life to the world.

01:05:06

No. Actually. The primary verb is. Esten. For the bread of God is.

01:05:17

Ha kata binom. The one coming down. From heaven.

01:05:23

Kaizowain deduce. To cosmos. So. Deduce is from didymy.

01:05:32

And. So it's not the main verb. But he's treating it like it's the main verb.

01:05:38

He doesn't discuss. It's relationship to the main verb. He's just going.

01:05:43

Oh look. It's a present therefore it means this. No that's not how it works.

01:05:50

Um. That's. That's the kind of.

01:05:57

Hyperliterality. That ignores syntax. That second year Greek.

01:06:02

Is intended to cure you up. That's when your professor has to be going.

01:06:08

Yeah. It's present but remember. What are we looking at again here? Oh yeah it's a participle.

01:06:15

So now we need to find our main verb. Looking at a clause. Subclause. There's all sorts of other stuff that goes into it.

01:06:23

Which you can't get. From an online. Resource. You've got to actually take the class.

01:06:31

Learn the language. And so you. It's just like.

01:06:37

I even see paid. Advertisements on Twitter. It drives me nuts. I was getting a bunch of them until I finally muted them.

01:06:44

You're not actually understanding. What the Bible says about. The creation of Adam.

01:06:50

Until you read it in the original Hebrew. Spend. $39 .95 on our book.

01:06:56

And we'll tell you. It's almost always Hebrew. I suppose I've seen some for Greek.

01:07:02

It's almost always. These people hawking some kind of. Shapes and letters.

01:07:09

Represent this that and the other thing. It's just a bunch of. Hooey. So be careful about.

01:07:15

Buying hooey. We don't want to buy hooey. He's not good to buy. So we go.

01:07:23

Where did my thing go? Very good. Yes okay.

01:07:35

I know where I am now. I actually only have four things left.

01:07:41

But one of them is ten minutes long. Interaction. Now. Let's go to verse 35.

01:07:49

Jesus said to them. I am the bread of life. He who comes to me shall never hunger.

01:07:55

And he who believes in me shall never thirst. The word comes. Is in the present middle form.

01:08:03

Which means. This is an action taken. By the subject. I want you to hear that clear.

01:08:10

He who comes to me. Is in the present middle form. Which means that the action is taken.

01:08:16

By the subject. I want you to see what's on the screen right now. Which is not me.

01:08:22

I want you to see what's on the screen right now. Comes. Is in the present middle.

01:08:28

An action taken. By the subject. And the responsibility. Is on the individual.

01:08:37

Wow. Greek tells you all that, huh? Well. No. Now. I asked him a question.

01:08:47

In Twitter. And a younger Greek professor. And I got into a little discussion.

01:08:56

Because. For most of the past. 200 years.

01:09:05

When you learned Greek. You learned a group of. Verbs that were called.

01:09:11

Deponents. And they are. Verbs that appear.

01:09:18

Only in the middle form. But they are active in their translation in English. Now. A number of years ago.

01:09:27

Papers started appearing. And then some grammar started appearing. That said no. This is a misunderstanding.

01:09:33

There are certain verbs. That only appear in the middle.

01:09:39

In the form. The middle passive. And they really are middle.

01:09:46

But because of. They tend to be very old verbs. And Greek.

01:09:53

Greek has existed for a long long time. And. So for example. There is a difference between the

01:09:59

Greek of the Septuagint. And the Greek of the New Testament. There had been. Even in that 200 to 300 years.

01:10:06

There had been. Evolution. Development. And so it's.

01:10:12

I mean you can read the Greek Septuagint. If you can read the New Testament. But you'll notice. Some differences.

01:10:20

And of course classical Greek. Is hard for a Koine reader. That's why

01:10:25

Hebrews. Acts and Luke. Are. Level 10 difficulty in the

01:10:32

New Testament. Because. I think the same person wrote all three of them. And.

01:10:39

There is much more of a. The syntax is very different. Vocabulary tends to be.

01:10:45

More classical. So there's. Development over time. So old folks like me.

01:10:52

Were taught. That Erkamai. Is a deponent.

01:10:57

So it's in middle form. But it's translated actively. And. The Greek professor.

01:11:06

Pointed to. The fact that there has been. Over the past. 20 years.

01:11:14

A number of papers. And like I said. I think at least one or two grammars have come out. And they're saying no.

01:11:19

Deponents are only relevant in Latin. These are true middle forms.

01:11:25

But. They're ancient verbs. And because they're very. Ancient verbs.

01:11:32

They're. Translated into our language. As actives. And they have to be.

01:11:40

Because we don't have any other way of understanding them. But there's still an element of. Action.

01:11:47

In reference to the subject. Okay. That's a. I'm. I'm well aware of.

01:11:56

Developments in this area. But I'm now old enough to go. Let's give it a while.

01:12:03

When you're younger. You grab on to the newest thing. When you get older. You've seen some of those newer things come along.

01:12:09

And then they didn't really pan out. And so. You're a little slower.

01:12:16

And it's just the process of scholarship. If the argumentation. Is good enough.

01:12:21

And solid enough. Then it will become the mainstream. But the nature of western scholarship.

01:12:27

Is such as. Someone's always looking for a way to challenge the mainstream. That's how you get published. That's how you get a name for yourself.

01:12:35

And so. I go. Okay I hear what you're saying. Alright I get it.

01:12:41

I understand that. But fundamentally. We're not.

01:12:47

That conversation. Isn't overly relevant to what he's saying here. Because there is nothing here about.

01:12:55

Responsibility. Is on the individual. That would have to be.

01:13:02

Derived from. The meaning of the verb. The context in which it is used. To drive that.

01:13:10

From a present middle. Especially from something like Erkemi. Which is only found.

01:13:16

In Middle Passive Forms. Is the essence. Of. Bad Greek.

01:13:25

Eisegesis. I don't really understand this language. I don't read this language. I can't sit there.

01:13:30

I can't grab a Greek New Testament. And I can't open up to. The Gospel of John.

01:13:37

And I can't read it. I can't go on from there. So you know.

01:13:49

Therefore again he said to them. I am going away and you will seek me. And you will die.

01:13:55

In your sins. Where I am going. You are not able to go. Now. Am I familiar with John 8?

01:14:03

Did I just translate that correctly? Is there any English in here? Nope. So. You have to be able to.

01:14:13

Parse on the fly. You have to get past. Parsing of course.

01:14:19

Is looking at a word. Recognizing what it's root is. Is it a noun?

01:14:26

Is it a verb? Adverb? Adjective? Is it some other part of speech.

01:14:32

That's helping things along. And to be able to read it.

01:14:37

With speed. You have to start seeing the relationship between words. And.

01:14:43

Erkamai is a. Really basic standard verb. And you should know.

01:14:50

What it means. And that it appears in middle passive. And you're not going to do this to it.

01:14:57

You're not going to go. That means the responsibility is on the individual. No it doesn't.

01:15:05

Could there be a place. Where. You could derive.

01:15:11

A meaning like that. It has to come from the meaning of the verb. It has to come from the use of the verb in a particular passage.

01:15:16

There's all sorts of stuff that has to be there. And. Our brother here doesn't know any of that.

01:15:22

And doesn't even try to establish that. He's looking at a parsing program going. Look present middle.

01:15:29

An action taken by the subject. Well Erkamai. Is I come.

01:15:35

And so. The subject. Is moving himself. And so that's where the idea is.

01:15:41

As far as the ancient form of the verb. Was concerned. But all the rest of this stuff. You're confusing that with.

01:15:49

Taking. When you take a verb. That can appear. In all the different voices.

01:15:57

It can be an active middle passive. When you do that.

01:16:04

Then. And let's say the same. Let's say the same author. Uses the verb in that way.

01:16:11

Then. In all those different ways. Well then you can say. He's specifically seeking to communicate something here.

01:16:19

Um. But. Especially. Well I was going to get into the thing in 1

01:16:28

Corinthians. Um. 13 and. Use the middle there. Has had a lot of weight put on it.

01:16:34

But we'll not get into that right now. But. Point is. This looks impressive to people.

01:16:42

Unless you actually know the language. And then you go. You'll be reading stuff into this.

01:16:50

I don't think you're familiar with what's really going on here. Uh. We press on. So the one who is coming is taken.

01:16:58

Responsibility is on the person. Okay. The subject he.

01:17:04

Is in the definite article. The. Now. He's looking down.

01:17:12

He's reading notes. And. I'm. Assuming.

01:17:21

That. What he's referring to. If we're still. I think we went to verse 35.

01:17:28

It's. Er commonos. The one coming.

01:17:36

That's a participle. It's a substantival participle. It's not even a finite verb.

01:17:43

Did he move from 33 to 35? I think he did. I'm looking at my thing here.

01:17:49

Uh. Looks like it but it's not lighting up for me right now. I think we're in 35. If we're in 35.

01:17:55

Then here. Come on. I wonder why it won't let me do that.

01:18:06

I thought I'd just be able to. Drag it over here. But it doesn't want to do that. So. I am a little concerned about.

01:18:16

Oh I'll bet you. It'll let me do it now. Yes there we go. So if we're in verse 35.

01:18:26

Jesus said to them. Ego. I am. The bread of life.

01:18:33

Now he's going to jump all over Artaus. Here in a moment. And it's going to get really strange. Ha. Er commonos.

01:18:41

But this is. A substantival participle.

01:18:48

That's why it has an article in front of it. Ha. Er commonos. He is in the article.

01:18:55

Well. Okay but the article matches. The participles being used with.

01:19:02

Er commonos is a. Masculine singular form. The one coming to me.

01:19:09

Umay. I wonder if. He knows what umay means. You know what the.

01:19:14

Eris subjunctive strong denial is. Um. He will never hunger.

01:19:22

Cai hapistuon. Okay you see the article. Hapistuon. Again masculine.

01:19:30

Singular participle. Substantival participle. The one believing. In me.

01:19:36

Umay. Eris subjunctive strong denial. Dipsesai. Popate.

01:19:43

Will never thirst. Strong. Strong denial this will ever happen.

01:19:49

So obviously the parallels. Between ha or commonos. And hapistuon. The one coming.

01:19:55

The one believing. And these are present tense. And I think.

01:20:02

But I have to make this argument. From John. I think.

01:20:08

The present tense is relevant. In the description.

01:20:14

Of what a true believer is. Why do I say that? I've made this argument. And I think.

01:20:22

Um. I don't remember. If I include like a footnote. In the potter's freedom.

01:20:29

Or if I only developed it. In drawn by the father. I don't actually remember.

01:20:35

Been decades. Let's see if you remember. What you wrote in a footnote. Decades from now. I still remember a lot of footnotes.

01:20:43

That I wrote decades ago. But not necessarily that one. In John. I think you can make a strong argument.

01:20:51

That. In places where he is referring. To false faith. He. Specifically.

01:21:01

Utilizes the aorist. So in John chapter 8. To those.

01:21:06

Who had believed in him. Aorist not present. He said if you continue my word.

01:21:12

Then you're my disciples indeed. You should know the truth. Truth shall set you free. And they're the ones that pick up stones to stone him.

01:21:19

In John chapter 2. When the people saw the miracle. And they believed in him.

01:21:26

It says Jesus did not believe himself. To them. He did not entrust himself to them. Because he knew it was in man.

01:21:34

Aorist tense for their belief. And so you can. Provide examples.

01:21:40

In John. Where false faith. Is seen. And it's in the aorist.

01:21:47

And it's contrasted. With present tense.

01:21:52

Faith. Ongoing type faith. So there are places. Where present tense is not.

01:22:00

Emphasizing ongoing action. At all. But in this case. Why use present tense.

01:22:08

Substantival participles. To describe the one coming. And the one believing. Is there a.

01:22:16

Context. In John. Where false faith is seen. There is.

01:22:23

And I think that's why you have. What you have there. But. Anyways.

01:22:30

There's 635. And I think I can. Do that.

01:22:36

And then I have to. Do that. And hope everything doesn't crash.

01:22:42

And we. The one who comes to me. That's another way that this could be.

01:22:49

Expressed. Meaning the person is the one. Choosing to believe. And the responsibility.

01:22:56

Is on the individual. Did you catch that? Nothing you just said.

01:23:01

Need to come back to me. Nothing. Rich was so blown away by that.

01:23:08

That he froze. I saw it in the other room. It was terrible. So what happens when people.

01:23:15

Crash cars and stuff like that. They just freeze. That is all just read in.

01:23:23

Everything. Responsibility. Capacity. He didn't provide any of that.

01:23:29

He may think that. He may really. Think he's on to something here. Because he thinks he understands.

01:23:37

The present tense. If he doesn't understand the present tense. Some type of participle. I don't know.

01:23:44

But all of a sudden we have. Capacity and ability. And responsibility. And all the rest of the stuff.

01:23:50

And it's coming from your parsing. Of a few verbs. And participles that you don't know.

01:23:57

Are actually participles. Wow. Here is the danger folks.

01:24:04

This happens a lot. And this is why. I was so upset.

01:24:10

When they made Greek. A jantern class. Because. And there are a lot of seminaries doing it.

01:24:17

There are a lot of seminaries doing it. Why not? We've got these awesome programs now.

01:24:23

I can stick my. You know. Cursor on any of these things.

01:24:30

And there is the parsing. There is the lexical form. There is the parsing. Why should we bother people.

01:24:38

With the. Why should we have people that are unhappy. And they don't graduate because they didn't pass Greek. Or something like that.

01:24:44

Let's just use what we've got here. And we can do more leadership programs. And more classes on.

01:24:50

How to do finances in your church. And all the rest of that kind of stuff. And that's what's happened. The problem is.

01:24:58

You can look at. I'm on PSTUON right now. Present active participle.

01:25:04

Masculine, singular, nominative. To believe, trust. But that doesn't tell you.

01:25:11

That it's. Substantival. And a substantival participle.

01:25:17

Is different. Than a participle. That's functioning. Much more in the verbal realm.

01:25:29

The emphasis. On certain aspects. Of like the verbal aspect. You have to demonstrate.

01:25:36

From context. That the present. Is still overly relevant. In a substantival use.

01:25:43

Where it's going to be more naturally assumed. When it's more in the verbal use.

01:25:50

So. These are things. When a pastor.

01:25:58

Who goes to a seminary. That doesn't force them to learn these things. Picks up a commentary.

01:26:05

That pastor. Is not. In a position to be able. To analyze the argumentation.

01:26:11

Of the commentary. And I've told you the stories. Of where that.

01:26:18

Can become disastrous. You start getting to pick and choose.

01:26:24

Which commentaries you want to use. Depending on what they say. Instead of. Being able to.

01:26:32

Analyze and even go. Huh. Yeah I know what it's saying. My commentary blew that one.

01:26:40

And it happens. But if you can't. Actually if you don't know what a participle is.

01:26:46

Or an infinitive. And how they function. Or how adjectives function.

01:26:52

And adverbs function. And everything else. You're left at the mercy. Of whatever you're reading.

01:26:58

And it also allows you to read into. A text. Stuff that isn't actually there.

01:27:05

And that's what we're seeing here. Um. And I literally.

01:27:11

Have. Three more minutes of this. And I'm. We'll do.

01:27:17

We'll do a little bit more. And then we will have to. Split this into two. Because I don't want to.

01:27:25

Well I don't know. Let's see. There's a lot that we can add to this. And really exposit the text. But I'm trying to just debunk.

01:27:31

The element of Calvinism. Being this verse is actually advocating. Did you catch that?

01:27:37

We can go a whole lot deeper. Than the errors I just gave you. But we're only here to debunk Calvinism.

01:27:43

Ouch. That's. To say that right after.

01:27:49

Um. What you just said. Oh. Hurts. Um.

01:27:57

That's a problem. That's a problem. But a couple little things.

01:28:03

That I just think is really cool. So when Jesus said that. He is the bread of life. Um. The word bread is actually.

01:28:11

Raised show bread. I'm looking at the screen up there.

01:28:20

Even. I guess this is the blue letter Bible. I'm assuming. Does that look familiar at all to you?

01:28:25

Because you said you've used it. No? But you haven't used it for parsing stuff. Things like that. Just a map.

01:28:31

Says it's got good maps. Timeline. Good. I've not seen this before.

01:28:38

Um. But. I don't know where this came from. And I'm sure.

01:28:46

I didn't take time to look back at it. But. I would imagine.

01:28:54

That when the show bread is mentioned. In the Greek Septuagint. That it probably is.

01:29:00

Artos. Um. But. Artos means bread.

01:29:08

It just. It just means bread. It may have been used in some instance.

01:29:14

To mean. Raised show bread. Something like that. But. When you take

01:29:22

Greek. I'm over here. When you take Greek. There you go. Rich is.

01:29:27

Rich is following the subject too much. That he's forgetting he's got a job to do over there.

01:29:33

See today. I should have the ATEM. I should have this hooked up. And he can just sit over there and enjoy the substance of the program.

01:29:41

He's not paying attention. Well he is paying attention. Just not to what he's supposed to be doing.

01:29:46

Anyway. It just means bread. It doesn't mean raised show bread here.

01:29:52

It just simply means bread. The bread of life. But if you're gonna stretch it.

01:29:59

If you're gonna go. And you know what. That's what's in context here. Um. The context is mana.

01:30:09

He shifts to Artos. After talking about mana. Just saying.

01:30:17

It just means bread. It's just the bread.

01:30:24

Artos tastes away. It's the bread of life. Beautiful. But you don't have to complicate things.

01:30:30

It's the raised show bread. And as if there's some form of the word.

01:30:35

That would tell you that. It doesn't. It just means bread. That's all there is to it.

01:30:41

If you know Jewish culture. And there's this element of show bread. That I'm not gonna have time to really draw here.

01:30:47

But Jesus is saying. He is the raised show bread. That's what he's saying. He's the bread of life. This element of life is absolute fullness of life.

01:30:56

That's what the original language means. It's just. Um. Again.

01:31:02

This is called interpretation. It's called application. But he's confusing it.

01:31:09

With exegesis. It. Zoes means life.

01:31:15

It's. It's. That's the genitive singular form. So it's descriptive.

01:31:23

So. Ha artas tezoes. Ha artas tezoes. It's the bread of life.

01:31:30

Now you can have discussion. I mean genitives are. Extremely rich.

01:31:35

Because they're your descriptive words. And so. You can have ablative functions.

01:31:41

Something come from. But you can have subjective genitives. And objective genitives. And there's all sorts of arguments.

01:31:49

The faith of Christ. In Paul. Is that.

01:31:56

Objective. Subjective. How do you translate that. There's all sorts. Cool stuff.

01:32:03

You gotta have something for Greek professors to write papers about. You know. I mean other than that.

01:32:09

Their life is really boring. Poor things. But. To say absolute fullness of life.

01:32:17

And that's what the original language says. No it doesn't. No it doesn't.

01:32:22

Prove it. So if I pull up. What's called.

01:32:29

Thesaurus lingua grecae. Thesaurus lingua grecae is a. We used to have a cd -rom of it.

01:32:35

And then they went to a subscription thing. Which we have an active subscription to. Rich can confirm that.

01:32:41

Because he has to pay for it. And that is. Basically a complete.

01:32:48

Collection of all ancient Greek literature. And I can look up. Zoe. The lexical form.

01:32:56

Nominative singular. And. Every time

01:33:01

I find Zoe. In. Plato. Aristotle.

01:33:09

Any of the Greek historians. Whatever. Every time I find

01:33:14

Zoe it means absolute fullness of life. No it doesn't. Every time

01:33:19

I find. Artaus. Does it mean raised showbread? Nope. This is an abusive language.

01:33:29

This is. Claiming stuff. That just ain't there. And people who can't read the language.

01:33:37

Are left going. Oh. Okay. But when you can read the language you go.

01:33:44

What are you talking about? Because you would not. Translate that.

01:33:50

Any other place. You wouldn't translate it that way. In other contexts.

01:33:56

Because you're not translating it in the first place. You're using a parsing program. And it's misleading.

01:34:02

Amazing to see. Now comes. Is coming from one place to another. And that action.

01:34:08

Is in the middle present. Done by the responsibility. Of the individual.

01:34:14

The one who comes. Is what's being said here. So we already debunked that right?

01:34:20

We already pointed out that's. And that's from. It's actually a participle.

01:34:25

It's a subtype of participle. It's the one coming. And there's nothing about responsibilities. Capacities. Abilities.

01:34:31

Any of these types of things. That's being read in. It's not a part of the original language at all.

01:34:37

It's just where it's coming from. Who knows. And then he'll never hunger. And he that.

01:34:43

Is also the definite article. Literally meaning that these that. So anyone that.

01:34:49

Believes. And believes is in. The present. Active.

01:34:56

Which now tells us that. The belief is on the. Responsibility of the person.

01:35:03

And not. It's not passive. So it's not something that's being given.

01:35:08

To them by God. And see what's going on here. He's pretending again.

01:35:14

He doesn't even know he's dealing with a participle. Anything. So he's not dealing with. The participle in relationship.

01:35:22

To the finite verb. So. Not even getting close to actually dealing with the language.

01:35:28

But notice the application. Well you see. It would have to be in the passive. If faith is being given as a gift.

01:35:34

Why? There's nothing here. That tells us anything.

01:35:40

What so ever. About where. This faith came from. In any way shape or form.

01:35:49

It's simply describing. Who is the one believing. And the one coming.

01:35:55

It is present tense. And I think there is. A theological ramification.

01:36:02

As to the nature of. Saving faith. But as I did earlier. I said and that's due to.

01:36:09

An overall. Context in John. Where the same verb.

01:36:16

Pisteuo. When it's used in the aorist. Isn't. Referring to.

01:36:24

Saving faith. I think off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure.

01:36:30

I think there was a weird pluperfect. Somewhere in John. With Pisteuo. That was somewhat controversial.

01:36:36

I may. Look that up for the fun of it. Then again I may forget before we get done with this.

01:36:43

But you see what's going on here. All this. This looks really impressive to people.

01:36:49

But it's. Shadows. It's make believe. It's you take.

01:36:55

You try to. Test out a first year Greek. With this kind of stuff.

01:37:01

Ain't gonna happen. You're gonna be failed. And appropriately so. Because you don't know what you're doing here.

01:37:09

Such as regeneration. Or faith. So this is not given by God. This is something that the text clearly.

01:37:16

Clearly says. Is the responsibility of the individual. Okay. So there you go.

01:37:24

Here's misusing Greek. To read in your presuppositions. When you don't understand what you're talking about.

01:37:30

You haven't derived it from the language at all. And you're cramming in there. Because it's what you want to do.

01:37:36

Because you've said. We are here to debunk Calvinism. So we're gonna debunk Calvinism.

01:37:42

Now. Problem is. I now.

01:37:50

Get to verse 37. We now get to the heart of it. But we've already seen.

01:37:55

What the main problems are gonna be. And so. My notes here.

01:38:01

Literally say. To start here at. 50 minutes and 39 seconds.

01:38:08

And go through 60. That's 9 minutes. Of. Material.

01:38:16

And then there's one. One other thing after that. So. There's no way

01:38:23

I can do that. And keep this in a meaningful. Length of time. So.

01:38:29

We will either do. Another. Radio Free Geneva. Because I'd imagine.

01:38:36

If we combine that with our own. Hopefully sound exegesis. Of John 637 and following.

01:38:45

We could definitely fill up an hour or more. With that. Without too much of a difficulty.

01:38:51

So we'll either do. We'll either do a whole. Just Radio Free Geneva. Or we'll do a

01:38:57

Radio Free Geneva segment. I think we did that once before. Where I did like half an hour. And then we played the theme.

01:39:02

Because we gotta play the theme. Because there are certain addicts out there. Who if you don't play the theme.

01:39:09

At least once a month. They start like growing a second head. And it's really strange.

01:39:16

Tim Beauchamp has an entire fan club out there. They paint their faces. It's really weird.

01:39:21

Very strange stuff. But we will continue at that point. Let me just say.

01:39:28

To Brother Jason. I've had to. Repeatedly say. You don't know what you're talking about.

01:39:36

And I don't mean that. In. A dismissive mean fashion.

01:39:42

I mean that as a person. Who's taught Greek for a long time. And I read it.

01:39:49

And I've worked through this text. From every possible angle. I've lost track.

01:39:55

Of how many. Counter interpretations. Of John chapter 6.

01:40:01

We have dealt with over the years. I mean. Someone can find out if they want to. Because there's pretty much.

01:40:07

An exhaustive database. At aleman .org. Click on transcripts.

01:40:14

Put in John 6. And enjoy. You'll be at it for a long time. But I'm saying this.

01:40:22

Because. It's painfully obvious to me. As a person.

01:40:28

Who has taught Greek. Now let me just say something. I'm not teaching Greek right now. I wish

01:40:33

I was. My. Teaching responsibilities are.

01:40:39

I'm doing a directed study. As a professor. At GBTS. In a related field.

01:40:46

I use Greek. Daily. I preach from the Greek text.

01:40:51

I debate from the Greek text. I use Hebrew. Not necessarily daily. But I still use it.

01:41:00

Even though it's been a number of years. Since I actually taught a class. I forget when the last time.

01:41:05

I taught Greek. It was an online class. It wasn't all that long ago.

01:41:12

Oh you know what? It was during COVID. I did do a class during COVID.

01:41:17

So it's been 3 years. So I want to make one comment. As we wrap up. We've got enough time for me to do this.

01:41:24

Without getting all the way to 2 hours. There are.

01:41:31

A professor. Who does nothing but teach the languages. Can be highly proficient.

01:41:41

And. Very specific in terminology. Because that's their life. I am.

01:41:49

First and foremost. Professionally an apologist. And as an apologist.

01:41:56

I address a pretty wide variety of topics. From. Textual criticism.

01:42:04

Bible translation. Issues in church history. Roman Catholicism which involves all sorts of church history issues.

01:42:13

But Roman Catholicism. It's theology. Mormonism. Jehovah's Witnesses.

01:42:18

Unitarianism. Islam. Quran. Quranic history.

01:42:25

Hadith studies. Atheism. Presuppositional apologetics. I deal with a wide variety of stuff.

01:42:36

And so you can have. Scholars that go. Far deeper into a topic.

01:42:43

Than I can. But. This is the range of their work.

01:42:50

I'm doing this. And trying to go as deep as I can. This direction.

01:42:56

And I don't understand. Honestly. And I've said this on many webcasts other than my own.

01:43:02

I don't understand why it is. That amongst apologists. I'm not just an apologist. I'm a pastor of a church.

01:43:08

As well. And some of the stuff I was doing last night. Had to do with. Issues in the church.

01:43:17

So I've got a lot of things going on. Other than these type of things. I've never understood why apologists.

01:43:23

In general. Don't know the languages. I don't understand it.

01:43:29

It's one of the greatest tools that I have. It's been. Such an advantage to me.

01:43:36

In so many different situations. And again. Sorry. This will be the 470th time you've heard this.

01:43:43

But when I'm asked. What two classes I took. In bible college and seminary.

01:43:50

That have been the most helpful to me. In a career as an apologist. Over 40 years now. My answer has always been the same.

01:43:58

Greek and church history. Greek and church history. Because those are areas.

01:44:05

That I don't know why. But apologists. Don't tend to have.

01:44:11

A whole lot of. Sound training in. And that's problematic. Shouldn't be that way.

01:44:18

So I will. I'll remember where this is. Hopefully.

01:44:25

Famous last words. And we will pick up. At 50 minutes 39 seconds. Jason I said to you.

01:44:33

Do you want to leave this up. There are. Fundamental foundational errors.

01:44:39

In your understanding. Of greek verbs. Participles. The language syntax.

01:44:46

How to translate it. I don't believe you read greek. I don't recall you claiming that you did.

01:44:53

But. We just heard you saying. The original language says this.

01:44:59

And it says nothing like what you're saying. So. When we work through.

01:45:06

John 637 and following. This is going to only. Become more of a drumbeat.

01:45:12

I'm afraid. Because you started off. With assumptions that are wrong.

01:45:18

They're just errant. It's just not true. And so. That can't be.

01:45:28

Enjoyable. To have to listen to. But it needs to be said.

01:45:34

Because you put it out there. And I gave you the opportunity. I even said. There are problems here.

01:45:40

You've made some mistakes. You sure want to leave it there? And you have. So. I think we're being fair.

01:45:49

To respond to what has been posted publicly. And to correct it. And in the process.

01:45:57

Debunk your debunking. That's your terminology. You're talking about the lies.

01:46:03

The enemy. I don't have to be nearly. As. Harsh.

01:46:11

As your language. To say I just think you're. A confused believer. Without sufficient training.

01:46:19

To be able to recognize that. What you've been given by certain. Bad sources. Is bad information.

01:46:27

And. So we're just responding to that. Okay. So we'll pick up at that point. I don't know if it'll be the next program.

01:46:33

Or exactly how. I almost started off today's program. With stuff that's going on.

01:46:39

Because there is stuff going on. There always is. But we'll see.

01:46:45

We'll see when we get back with you next week. Thanks for watching the program today.

01:46:51

We'll see you next time. God bless. And be saved.