Brian Ninde & Jimmy Delssantos: Why Western Christian Evangelism Needs To Change! DMW#214

Dead Men Walking

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Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location,

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Dead Men Walking starts now. Well, hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.

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I'm your host Greg Worm. Thanks for coming along on the ride. Thanks for sharing with a friend. Thanks for checking us out at dmwpodcast .com

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where you can find out more about the show. You can support the show with some snarky merch. We've got the Wine Em, Dine Em, Romans Nine Em t -shirt there.

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That's always a good seller, a good conversation starter as well. But at the top of the show, I want to remind you about our sponsors,

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So they want to have fair pricing and they don't do junk. Guys, I've seen some of the stuff, I have some of the stuff here in the studio.

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It is top quality furnishings. So if you're in that market, kandkfurnishings .com. We appreciate them being a sponsor of the show.

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Cool, now that we got the business out of the way, boy, we got two special guests on here and I want to get right into it.

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Sometimes I'll do a little rambling up top, but I do want to get into it because I think we're going to have a good time. We have

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Brian Nein on the show. He's a member of the Evangelism Ministry Leader of Cornerstone Bible Church.

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I'll try to get through that, guys. It's been a long day. We're recording at night. President of Hearts for the Lost Ministry. Co -host

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Hearts of the Lost, the podcast. We also have Jimmy DeLaSanto, member at Redemptive City Church, Dallas.

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That was a church plant. Street Evangelist since 2005. Co -host of Hearts of the Lost podcast. And the

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Solacast podcast, which I started listening to years ago and I need to get back around to that. That was one of my entry kind of reformed podcasts.

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I have a funny story about that, meeting him in person after about two days and looking over and going, wait a minute, you're the Solacast guy?

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Because I have that kind of memory. He's a father of three daughters, grandfather of six.

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It's Jimmy and Brian. Brian and Jimmy, how you guys doing? Yeah, Greg, how you doing, man? Doing good.

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Glad to be here. Good. Yeah. Excited. Met you guys in person down at the

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White Calvinism Conference. Loved what you guys were doing with the podcast down there. I was down there with this podcast and wanted to get you guys on because I've been checking out some of the videos, some of the podcasts that you do, and it's just really, really good stuff.

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Like I said right there in the intro, too, I think we're at a B -dubs and Jimmy said something about Solacast. I was like, wait a minute, you're the soul.

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You're the Jimmy from Solacast. It was I was a little awestruck just because, you know, I mean, how long have you been doing that podcast?

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It feels like I got on that like three or four years ago. When did you start that, Jimmy? In 2018.

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So. OK, so it was probably. Yeah, it's probably four years ago then, because I have no concept of time since I've had children.

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Something could have happened last month. It feels like five years ago, something five years ago feels like last month. Who knows anymore?

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Right. And I'm sure you get that, too, with children and grandchildren. But new to the

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Hearts of the Lost podcast. But I want to talk about that a little bit, too, before we get into our subject tonight. Can you guys either one of you jump in there and tell me a little bit about the podcast?

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Yeah, well, I'll go and start. I found Solacast as well. Jimmy and I became we were partners at Ambassador Academy out at Ray Comfort's Living Waters, the training out in 2018.

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I couldn't even spell podcast. I didn't know what it was, but he kept telling me about it. We just became fast friends talking about evangelism.

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Anyway, I'll fast forward a little bit. I got involved with Hearts for the Lost, the ministry, and Jimmy was coming up to Indianapolis to check out one of our events.

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And Solacast said, hey, why don't you come on our podcast to talk about evangelism with Hearts for the Lost? So I did.

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Jimmy and I pretty much took over the show just because we can't stop talking about evangelism. I think it was Pastor Chris or Henry, I can't remember, or maybe both, said you two guys need to start a podcast to talk about evangelism.

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So there birthed Hearts for the Lost, the podcast, November of 21. So it still had a

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Solacast flair. Jimmy's on Solacast. I love those guys. I pumped them as much as possible.

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We're all part of the Bar Podcast Network. So it kind of gives a little background of he and I and how this all came together.

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That's cool. And I'm glad you're part of Bar. I've said it many times on the podcast. Dwayne Atkinson jumped on and messaged me a week after I started the podcast.

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And he goes, I love what you're doing. Go in big places. Anything I can do to help, let me know. Help set up my merch store and all kinds of stuff.

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He's just, and he was just on a few months ago. Still talking to this day four years later. A good dude. You're on a good network for sure.

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Thank you. Go ahead, Jimmy. No, I'm just saying thank you. I think that being part of the

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Bar Podcast Network, we always get noticed for that because Dwayne's got a repertoire of a bunch of good podcasts out there that talk theology.

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So glad to be part of the Bar Podcast Network. Awesome. Well, I really like what you guys are doing.

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If you're listening to this right now or watching it, go check out their podcast. I'm going to link everything up in the description below so you'll be able to click on everything that they're doing and find them anywhere they're on socials as well.

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So let's get into this because you sent over some subject stuff and I sent some stuff back.

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I said, yeah, I think that's great because I haven't touched on it in a while, but it's still a problem in Western Christianity, which is church versus entertainment.

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I wanted to get into a little bit. Who is church for? The sinner or the believer? There's still debate on that.

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And then what does evangelism look like? Especially within reform circles, sometimes we can see a lack in evangelism.

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I attended an AG church for three years, a very conservative one. But at the same time, man, they were all about evangelism.

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Missions, missions, missions, right? Assembly is a guy who's really about that. They kind of brag about how many millions and millions of dollars they give to missions.

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And sometimes in reform communities, we can find maybe a lack of evangelism or maybe that's like a stereotype because I don't know if I found it so much as I hear other people outside of the reformed kind of theology circles label us as that.

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And I go, I don't know, man. I know a lot of guys that are street preaching that are reformed, that are evangelizing missions. So I want to talk about that as well too.

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But let's start at the top. Brian, church versus entertainment. What's going on in Western Christianity, man?

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I've been harping on this for 15 years and it's not getting any better. We're running businesses instead of churches.

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We're entertaining. We got smoke machines. We got rock bands. Like what's up? I think it culminated in all the

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Superbowl memes that we saw with Bibles getting kicked off the stage,

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Garth Brooks concerts. I think one pastor was riding the ball, like what's her name?

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The wrecking ball. Anyway, it is just absolutely entertainment for the goats, no doubt.

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And I do believe one of the main reasons is people just don't evangelize, right? They don't do the biblical model of go be my witness, go make disciples, right?

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It's littered all throughout scripture and how the church acted and should act. Now it just seems to be let's just put on, like you said, the biggest show on earth, bring in the animals, get everybody excited and try to win them with coolness and worship leaders with man buns and flannel shirts and skinny jeans and again, just trying to entertain them with anything possible to get them in.

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And then I guess whatever you get is what you win them with, right? So I see a bunch of churches, unfortunately, going down that path.

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And that is one of the things that Hearts for Loss, one of its mission statements is we will go to any church in the country for free and do an event to try to help teach and get them excited and equip and educate them on how to go out in their communities and witness and proclaim the gospel and pray for folks and do it the old fashioned, biblical way to go out to community and again, step out outside those

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Sundays or after Sunday's over in the afternoon till the next Sunday. What are we doing throughout the week to go out and proclaim the gospel, love on our neighbors and just again, proclaim

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Christ crucified. So I think it's a massive problem. But again, when you don't biblically evangelize like we're supposed to, they have to rely on manly methods or manly worldly ways to get people in the door.

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And that's what they're trying to win them with. I'm gonna step out on a limb here and maybe go from the other perspective is this, people will heap up teachers to tickle their itching ears.

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They want pastors like Joel Osteen. They want pastors like Stephen Furtick. They want pastors to tell us smooth things.

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And yeah, you'll get a Joel Osteen fill up a stadium full of people that aren't really repentant.

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They just wanna hear this news that tells them you can be whatever you wanna be and not have any consequences that go through it.

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Our message is different. Our message is the gospel, the true gospel that Jesus Christ came,

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God in human flesh to live a perfect life and die a horrid death on the cross as a payment for those that would believe on his name.

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And that message isn't the popular message, right? So what you have and what

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Brian was just saying is that you have those men like Joel Osteen that will give the people what they want and what they want is to be tickled.

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They wanna be... And so this is the issue. That's why it's become such a farce in the entertainment world.

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This whole thing... Brian, I saw that video of that pastor dressed in a ref's outfit going across the stage on a wrecking ball to the song by Miley Cyrus, something about the wrecking ball.

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I don't listen to Miley Cyrus. I don't know all her music. I just know that when I saw that, I was like, okay, that's a farce.

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You're not a Miley Cyrus fan? This interview is over. Pray first.

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Yeah, we do need to pray for it. And one last thing about that whole church versus entertainment.

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We've lost sight of what the church actually is, right? And this is the bare bones people.

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And I mentioned this before. People have changed the church, the word church to be a verb.

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Let's do church or let's have church as opposed to being the church that does the one and others, the loved one and others, the support one of those, the encouraging one of those, the build one another's up.

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And the reason that we have the gifts that we've been given is for one another to help each other through this life and grace and mercy of the

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Lord Jesus Christ to give us strength, but also he's given us the church to build each other up and be a community.

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So when you have these small churches that are family -like, the kind of church that I go to, you have a community, a family, right?

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And this is what I found to be the difference because I did grow up in, you said the AG churches a minute ago,

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Greg, that's a lot like what I grew up in, the charismatic Pentecostal churches. I grew up in that environment and it did not, it felt like they were leaning all toward the entertainment thing that we see in so many big churches.

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And so, you know, that's, I got a lot to say on the subject.

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Well, yeah. So let me interject two points real quick. Can you tell me if you guys agree? What Brian was saying about make disciples too, and I've said it before on the podcast, and we actually have a shirt on our website,

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Shameless Plug, that says less pastors, more disciples, right? And meaning everyone gets to be a pastor now. You're a youth pastor, family pastor, assistant pastor.

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You're a, you know, administrative, everyone's an evangelism pastor. Everyone's a pastor, but there are no disciples.

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You're not making any disciples and making disciples is very, very hard work because one, you come alongside someone, you live their life, you train them, you're in the valleys with them.

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Yes, you're on the mountaintops with them as well, but it is a real thing. It is a giving up of self to disciple someone and someone to become a disciple.

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And we don't like that. That's not fun. It's a lot of hard work. And then to what Jimmy said too, I agree with you. Most people want to hear exactly what their itching ears want, because it's easy and entertainment is fun and repenting is not fun.

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But I would submit that we know that the gospel cuts to the heart, right? We know that the true gospel goes forth.

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And when that happens and there's true repentance and you understand church as people and not a verb, church as supporting one another in the body of Christ.

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And when you're on your knees, repenting and asking for forgiveness and understanding who

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God truly is and seeing him in that light and his character and his justice and mercy and love and wrath and all those things.

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I submit that the people who are just settling for entertainment are missing out on a lot. Now, I'm not saying you're missing out on fun, because sometimes this walk can be, you know, it can be rough, right?

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And we weren't promised nice things and nice cars and money when we follow Christ. We take up our cross.

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But there's a piece that surpasses all understanding. There is something that when he replaced my heart of stone with the heart of flesh and I understood that in my hard times, his sovereignty was the soft pillow on which

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I laid my head. There is something there that can never be replaced with, you know, a wrecking ball and a great

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Christmas show and a fog machine and all these things. So these people are being deceived.

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They're giving up the actual true gospel of healing and love and mercy.

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And look, I'm not that guy that's just out there always talking about Jesus loves everyone. No, come as you are. No, his love is conditional.

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It's not unconditional. Let's get that right. There are conditions to it. Repent, right? Be baptized, all those things.

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I just look at it and I go, how sad is that? Because they're really, you have these hordes of people, like you said, stadiums full and they're not even experiencing one, the true gospel and two, how

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God can reconcile you to him in such a beautiful way. And I just find it, I find it so sad because in Western Christianity, we have gone full throttle with this and now for 50 years.

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Tom Asko was on the program last year and I asked him a question about something and he said, well, that's because there hasn't been any true preaching in pulpits in the majority of churches for the last 50 years.

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And I couldn't agree more. Are you guys kind of tracking with that when you look at Western Christianity, evangelicalism as a whole, not saying everyone because there are pockets of it.

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And I believe all three of us go to churches that truly honor and serve and love Christ. But do you guys kind of see that across Western Christianity as well?

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Yeah, absolutely. And I think we kind of picked on the easy targets early on.

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And you mentioned it, Greg, in the repentance piece, but let's take the squishy middle, right? Not the ones that are doing the entertainment, but the ones that aren't preaching on sin being sin or repentance and letting them live in their poo or whatever they're walking in, right?

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Not calling them out or being a Nathan prophet and saying, hey, you're the man in that story, dude. You know, let that whole common repentance and that whole hard sanctification walk, like you talked about the discipleship of having someone maybe try to kill sin that they're living with or need to kill.

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So it's that whole piece of not just, again, the obvious ones, but even that,

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I call it the squishy middle of folks that, again, you talk about the itching ears or talking about what people think they want versus what they need.

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They need the gospel. They need repentance and they need forgiveness of their sin. And that's the

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A number one thing with the gospel. The gospel is the only thing that provides the answer for that.

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So, yeah, I would definitely see it. Yeah, what Brian calls the squishy middle, I would, man,

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I just heard this sermon yesterday. My pastor preached on, he's going through a few passages, a few sermons before we get to Resurrection Sunday, which he would say we're not required to celebrate that.

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But as you know, as those that are believers in the RPW, the regular principle of worship, he's just going through because the calendar kind of gets us that way.

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And he was talking about Pontius Pilate and he called him at one point unconcerned.

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And what he said about Pontius Pilate was this, that while he found no guilt in Jesus Christ because of the people, because of the pressure of the people, just to appease them, he gave them over, he gave

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Jesus over to be crucified. And this was his sin, right? Because he found no guilt in the man.

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And this is the same thing that we find with that squishy middle that Brian's talking about. They're unconcerned.

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They're unconcerned about the truth of the gospel, about sending those out. And you know what? This is their sin, that they won't even speak to people about the truth of the gospel, that they just want to live in their little bubble and say, you know what?

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I'm just going to live this Christian life for myself and not try to spread it out and not try to go out there and try to bring people in.

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And I remember Pastor Robert Castillo, one of my pastors from my previous church,

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Ecclesia, he mentioned this. There's no call in the

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Bible to turn goats into sheep. That doesn't happen. All we're doing when we go out to evangelize is bringing sheep home.

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We're bringing those lost sheep. We're gathering the sheep back to the Father. And it's interesting because there's a lot of churches out there unconcerned with that endeavor.

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It's a social club for the most part. And so when they come on Sundays, if they're not going to those churches that preach those 18 years, they're still not preaching repentance.

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They're still not preaching faith in Jesus Christ. They come and they do their hour. And then they're gone for the rest of the week.

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They've done their duty. And then they're gone and doing something else. And the Western church, that's prevalent in the

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Western church. There are a few who find that path to life. Broad is the way that leads to destruction.

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Many, many go there by. Yeah. You know, the country club church for the last 50 plus years in Western Christianity has led to all sorts of things.

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And I would submit, and people can argue with me on this, is when you don't preach repentance and confession, as the

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Bible tells us to two families. One, you have men that are leaving church unrepentant and without confession.

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And I think men, even before women, need that more as the heads of their families, the head of the household, as fathers, they need to have corporate confession and the elders and their pastors saying, what do you need to confess of this week?

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What do you need to turn away from and turn to Christ? And when you have that not happening in the majority of churches for 50 plus years, what do you have?

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You have the women then step up and lead. We feminized the church. We now have entertainment trying to bring people in.

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So that way, you know, the women are the decision makers in the house because they want to be entertained.

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And then people go, why can't, what's going on in America? Why can't we figure out what a woman is and what a man is?

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Well, you didn't even tell men to confess for the last 50 years and repent. We're not to the point to where men can be pregnant.

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What did you expect was going to happen? I lay the blame on the culture today squarely on that squishy middle, squarely on not preaching the word of God from the pulpit for decades.

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And now the church is going, oh, what are we doing? How do we react to this culture? And it's like, well, this is the judgment.

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This is the judgment. We've seen it. We've seen in Israel all the time in the Old Testament, right? We would see how they would, they would abandon the precepts and the laws of God.

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They would fall into sin. God would bring judgment in different ways. I look at it and say, this is a natural order of things.

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And I'm not going Pat Robinson on you guys and going, oh, that hurricane was the judgment of God. No, I'm saying there is a principle to sin.

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There will be consequences. God will not be mocked, right? And I think we're in that faith. The good news is, is God's word doesn't go void.

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So I think we're in a period too to where, and I'll stop talking here in a minute, stupidity is not a good long -term plan.

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So, and we are headed in fast towards the cliff. I think we're going to see a resurgence of, and we saw it even in COVID, of some churches being shuttered and shut down that were just a social club anyway.

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And I've said it before and I'll say it again. The church always thrives under persecution and we're refined under persecution.

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And I think we're going through that now and I'm kind of excited for the future. I'm very optimistic about it. What about you,

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Brian? Do you think you're optimistic about evangelism and churches and kind of maybe the dying off of entertainment churches?

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Or do you think this is something we're going to keep seeing for quite a while? I think so. I see a trend.

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I still think we've got to work that out, right? Not only stupidity, but we need to get rid of the timidity and passivity.

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And we need to have men step up and be men, right? And lead, like you said, not only in the families, but also in our churches and also speaking out to other churches.

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But I think we can call that out, be that Nathan prophet, even to the church community.

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But again, not just doing it, but doing it biblically, right? Not just going out and like you said earlier,

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Jesus loves you and has a perfect plan for your life and blah, blah, blah, right? No, no, let's go back to how Jesus did it.

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Let's have the reformers did it. We preach the law and the gospel. Let's see how we've sinned or you've sinned against the holy and righteous and perfect God.

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And you have no hope without him. And with only that true mediator, Christ crucified, you even have a hope.

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You need to repent, put your faith and trust in Christ alone. That pure gospel taken to the streets, taken inside of our walls, right?

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We've got to stop assuming that everybody shows up on Sunday is born again, regenerated believers, right?

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Let's keep practicing and proclaiming the gospel even in our halls. But it's specifically out when we go out to dinner, in our families, when we go to school, when we go to work, wherever we are in a community, wherever God's called you at that time, let's just make that the forefront.

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And yeah, then revival will happen when again Christ is proclaimed and we're proclaiming again the true biblical gospel and not that whatever that other stuff's called.

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That's just not biblical. Yeah, and I would just have to say, Brian, I know, Jimmy, I'll let you jump in here, but I have to say that I witnessed you at that Buffalo Wild Wings.

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We have about eight or 10 guys, maybe more than that sitting around Buffalo Wild Wings. We're joking with the waitress.

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She's having a good time. We're, you know, being lighthearted. And then towards the end, you said, is there anything I can pray for you?

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Or and she went, she was kind of taken aback. But then, boy, did she offer it up, didn't she? Right, right.

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Yeah. And you said, where are you going to church? Where are you attending? What can I pray for? And you prayed right there for he left a little card. We all tipped her very well because I'm that's a big thing.

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If you go out there and witness, leave a tip, will you? OK, Christian, stop being cheapskates.

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All right. The Lord has blessed us. Let's bless other people. But I absolutely love that. And I went, oh, Brian has a heart for this. This this is what he does because it was so natural, so smooth.

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You've probably done it many times before. But I just want to let people under I'm not doing that to puff you up or, you know, make you prideful.

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I'm telling people that because this is what you do. And this is, I believe, what all Christians should do more.

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Amen. Yeah. Amen. We had another opportunity at the burger joint couple down Saturday night.

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Jimmy and I and the crew went to a burger joint and Jimmy and I tag teamed, walked her through the law and the gospel, gave her a haps and Jeffrey's church.

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We tried to plug her in. Hopefully she'll come. But yeah, you're right. It's just got it. It should be like breathing right in and out.

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We should breathe in and out. Go make go be my witness. Go make disciples. It just it should just happen. Not to always be this orchestrated event.

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OK, we're going to go downtown tonight. I'm not saying not do that. I do that all the time. But wherever we're walking in life, look for opportunities.

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Andrew Rappert always talks about be get really good at transitioning normal conversations to the gospel.

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It can be done in any conversation if you're intentional about it. And it's fun to do. I'm just I'm just picturing

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Jimmy and Brian, these two, just just some light dinner conversation. Law and the gospel.

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We walked her through that over fries. She was there and off the table. But as we got into it,

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I was looking at her like, do you want to go put those down? She was like, no, I'm listening to what you're saying. So she listened to the entire thing.

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It's an interesting thing. I want to go back to your question that you had a minute ago, though. I have you were saying you're optimistic and I'm just going to say this.

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And I think this is going to be valid. Steven Furtick, I think, went to a decent theological seminary.

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Yeah. I think it was if it was DTS halfway decent.

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All right. Well, here's what I would. Here's what I would say about Steven Furtick. He's gotten a taste of this.

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So the false teachers aren't going to stop. They've gotten a taste of this, of this, how much money they can make by tickling each itching ears.

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But God is in control. God is sovereign. And my optimism comes from this. The true church, those that are his elect are going to come to him.

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Right. And we have the opportunity to be a part of that. Right. What he's given us is a command to go out and share the good news with all those.

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And so those that those that come in, we get a chance to disciple. We get a chance to build up. We get a chance to teach what we've what we've learned over our years of evangelism.

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By the way, we have mentioned this. Evangelism is a good place to learn theology. Right. And just just this last week when

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I was out in the streets, I got this one girl that started. I got another question for you. Another question. She had all these theological questions.

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And it was that it was the streets. And it was it was Pastor Chris Hernandez with his reformed theology. They got me to a place where I could answer her questions in such a way that she was like,

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OK, I thought I was going to stump you. But you're you're doing pretty good at this. And it's right. It's it's this it's this idea that if we put into practice the things that he's that he's told us to do to make disciples, to go in, to go and be our my witnesses in all the earth.

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Theology grows from that. We we begin to study our Bibles because we're obeying his commands.

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If we obey his commands, he will. He will give us grace and he'll give us the knowledge of the

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Lord Jesus Christ through his word so that we might know how to answer everyone that might have an objection to our faith.

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And so I think I think that's an important thing. I just I just this last thing I told

27:13

Brian about this, but I had someone very close to me told me that the Bible was written by men to control other men.

27:22

And I at that moment didn't have an answer for that objection. But I do today. Here's here's my answer to that objection.

27:27

Have you looked at men today out in the world? They need to be controlled. I need a shepherd.

27:33

I need a shepherd to guide me and to keep me in control. Right. And so I in any case, when this is the growing of our theology because we hear things like that that may in a moment stump us for that moment.

27:47

And then we just grow in our theology. I'll never have a non response to that objection anymore.

27:53

And that's how you learn, right? I mean, be like me studying and reading books about weightlifting, but I'm never get on a bench and actually start, you know, light and build up.

28:02

You're never. I mean, it's the same thing. People say, oh, I just don't know enough. I'm going to wait. You're never going to know enough, first of all.

28:08

And Andrew Rapport taught me a long time ago. Jimmy as well. I don't know is a perfectly good answer. So you can't answer any question, but you go back and read it and it does sharpen your study to come out.

28:18

You're not going to get that stump again, but man, I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. One thing

28:23

I do see in the street, we need a lot more theology on the street because a lot of folks will go out street witnessing and that shouldn't even be out there that have really poor theology.

28:32

So we need to get that. But then vice versa. I got a lot of theologian friends that never evangelize. So how do we bring this together?

28:39

Right. To get better theology out there, but also let's get this rock and rolling. But you're never going to get to the point of a

28:46

Greg Moore, right? Or Andrew Rapport or James White. I threw you in there, bro.

28:52

Yeah, but no, you're not. You do not throw me in with those names. What are you doing? I'm an idiot. You're going to grow, man.

28:58

I've always said evangelism is going to do two things. It's going to change your prayer life and change your Bible study and your memorization, right?

29:05

You're not just memorizing verses to be smart. You're memorizing verses to use them in conversation.

29:11

And like Jimmy says, I don't need to address, right? I don't need to always talk about a chapter verse and cite the address, but at least use that and whittle that word and the authority of that word in our conversation.

29:23

Man, it has power and it won't return void, right? So, yeah, I just think it does. We need better theology on the street.

29:29

But man, I'm calling out all my other theologians. Are you out witnessing? Are you discipling other folks to share the faith in the public square?

29:38

Okay, so really quick, I have to jump in and I got to pick on our Calvinistic reform folk real quick because we've been picking on the evangelicals all night.

29:46

You are absolutely right, Brian. And I would say to you that what you two do, two theologically sound guys who study and find themselves approved and go out and actually meet people in the street and answer questions on the fly much harder and takes a lot more guts than two guys sitting around arguing over a confession or over a theological book who are starting at the same point of both believing, okay?

30:12

And what they do is that's safe for them. And we have a lot of guys in the reform camp that are very book smart and they've read a lot of books and they can recite creeds and confessions and they can split hairs on baptism and all kinds of stuff.

30:25

But they have never gone out in the street and actually walked up to a person who's really living life and has a real life question about the gospel.

30:33

Oh, yeah? Well, if God, you know, loves me or wants me to repent or wants me to turn to him, why did this happen?

30:40

Or why this? Or what about that? Or you know what I mean? Like real questions that they really want to know.

30:47

That's the hard thing to do. So I'm piggybacking off of you. I say piggy. Every time I say piggyback, I got ruined by some woke liberal who was on a

30:53

Zoom meeting with me. And she said, I want a veggie back off of that. I don't want to insult the pigs. True story.

31:00

So now that has been, it's drilled into my mind every time I say piggyback that that crazy leftist has got in there.

31:07

And I laugh at myself. So and I'm not saying it. I'm a piggyback off of Brian and go, you're absolutely right.

31:13

You are. We need more of our theologian brothers, the reformed circles in the Calvinist circles that are so, you know, so smart, so intellectual.

31:20

They've studied themselves approved. We'll get out in the street and let's start using that. Like how Christ called us to.

31:26

He didn't say hole up in a pub somewhere, hole up in a house somewhere, hole up in your study and, you know, argue back and forth with a guy who you're splitting hairs on his secondary issue with and then walk away going, oh, yeah, we did something for the kingdom there.

31:39

Did you? Did you? You know, I get a little perturbed with that. So I'm a pick on them a little bit, too.

31:44

Let's get out. And like you said, let's street evangelize. Let's go where the people are. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go get a soapbox, get your, you know, your bullhorn and start yelling at a street corner.

31:53

That means when he said, as you go out into the world, there's a little, you know, most versions have an as there.

32:00

That means you're doing your thing. You're dropping packages off at UPS. You're taking the kids to school. You're going out to eat.

32:06

You're in the marketplace as you're there. Do that. Make disciples. It's like it's so clear cut for me and sometimes a little frustrated there.

32:14

What what do you guys think about that? Am I being too harsh on him? No, I think I think you're spot on. I want to I want to piggyback off what you're saying.

32:22

I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to hear him. Here's the thing. And I I think that we had an example of this when we heard the sermon at at the white

32:32

Calvinism conference by Michael Schultz, the love in Calvinism. Right. Get back to your first love.

32:39

Right. Remember? Remember I had you. Yeah, you do great with your theology to the church at Ephesus.

32:44

You do great in your theology. But this one thing. You forgot your first love.

32:50

Don't you remember how Jesus loved you? Right. You got to get back to loving people. Right.

32:55

All this theology. That's good. Nothing against theology. I love reading my theological books.

33:01

Right. I love learning these things. I love that that God is opening my heart and my mind to these things.

33:07

When I go out in the street, I need to dumb it down some so that I can talk to that person on the street, that lay person on the street.

33:15

And like you said a minute ago, you don't have to get on a soapbox every once in a while. I will get on a box and preach.

33:20

But but my thing is the personal evangelism thing. And we did have this interview with what Brian did with with Pastor Michael Schultz.

33:27

Right. Who mentioned the fact that sometimes people go out to evangelize to to build themselves up to to be exhibitionists, to be these guys that that are.

33:38

And this is what they're doing when they're having this one on one little. Oh, the the the the Baptist thing or this theological encounter.

33:45

Can I can I one up the guy with my theological knowledge? Right. But they forgot something.

33:51

What about the love? What about the love? When we go out in the streets is because we love people. And I would say something.

33:58

Somebody's asked me, aren't you? Aren't you worried that people are going to get upset with you on the streets? I said, I've seen it happen.

34:04

I've seen people yell at me in the middle of the streets. I've seen people throw things in my direction, you know, things like that.

34:09

But I will tell you this. When somebody is listening to me and then they give me the opportunity, I will tell them this one thing. When they start to get a little escalated,

34:16

I might look at them and say, just examine my motive. Why am I out here on this bridge, on this pedestrian bridge in West Dallas?

34:25

Right. Why am I out here when I could be at home, feet propped up on the ottoman, watching the

34:31

TV show, Pet My Dog? Why do you think I'm out here on this bridge, on this cold night?

34:37

It's because I love you. It's because I care about you. It's because I don't want you to end up in hell. And so I'm going to preach the truth to you that I believe that there is a place called hell and you might end up there.

34:49

Right. And I want you to come to know the love of Jesus Christ, of the love that compelled him to go to that cross and lay down his life so that others might be freed from their sins.

35:02

And so that thing right there, this is the thing that gets me away from being so much of a theologian and becoming more compassionate.

35:10

Of course, I will say this, to Brian's point earlier, we meet evangelists out there on the street that are doing it a little bit weird, a little bit strange.

35:18

Sometimes we see the guys from there. I don't know about where y 'all are at. There's a thing called victory outreach here.

35:24

Those guys get up and say they don't share the gospel. They basically share their testimonies, which is like, okay, good in its place, but not necessarily bringing people to Christ.

35:33

So that's good for you. But what are the implications for me? That's why theology and love have to meet so that we understand it and we can convey the gospel in an understandable way that is theologically sound, that helps people to understand the truth of God and the truth of Jesus Christ, and that needs to be where we're at.

35:57

You got me a little hyped up with the way you went at that, Greg. You got me a little hyped up because I love the subject.

36:02

I love to be theological. I love reading my books, but I can't forget that I should love people enough to want to go share the good news of Jesus Christ with them.

36:13

I'm going to say it, piggyback, but no, on that, and we say this a lot, right?

36:19

Well, you talk about always be prepared to make an offense of the faith, right, but with gentleness and respect, right?

36:25

We say this on the show all the time. We're not out to win an argument, right? You can win the argument all day long, but if you don't preach the gospel,

36:33

I mean, the person's still potentially going to hell, right? So I'm saying let's not back down and not at least make an offense, but again, how much do we have to hate that person not to share the faith?

36:46

How much do we have to hate them not to at least share the gospel? But sometimes, I'm telling you, man, a lot of times people just want to let off some steam and they want to get stuff off their chest.

36:56

If you let them do that, I call it empty the glass a little bit because sometimes you got to empty the glass in order for something else to get in, right?

37:03

Let them empty the glass. Let them get a little steam. Typically, if I just start asking them questions to maybe back up their claims more than trying to defend ours so much, that, man, they have no logic to back it up anyway.

37:14

I know that. So they're going to get into a spin cycle, and it's just if I can just ask enough questions, hey, help me, sell me on that.

37:21

Wait, how does that work if that or whatever? Getting all the way back to how can nothing create something if that's where they want to go.

37:30

But again, just the general respect like Jimmy was talking about, not trying to have this, I got to win an argument to show my friends on YouTube that I'm stronger and more theological than this person or a shout down or I got to scream at the cops or I get arrested and show everybody that I'm persecuted versus like Michael Schultz says, no, you're just a jerk.

37:49

You were being persecuted. You were just a jerk. But like you said, Greg, being intentional, taking your lives out in the market square, just like the apostles did, just like the disciples did, go out into the market square, whether it be in our

38:03

Jerusalem, in our church, right, in all Judea, Samaria, or to the ends of the earth, wherever God's called you to go, take the gospel, preach

38:10

Christ crucified, and just watch people. And I've said this too, what

38:15

I'm finding, when you press people, whether Jimmy likes this too, when people say, oh, I'm already a Christian, I don't need, fine, let me hear your gospel pitch, right?

38:21

He'll say, can I practice on you? Sometimes I'll say, hey, let me get your pitch. Man, people aren't so much gospel hardened as they're gospel ignorant.

38:30

And people just need to be taught the basic, we assume sometimes, oh, you know the gospel. What do you mean by the gospel?

38:36

Right? Let's define it. We're defining everything else now. We have to, right? Let's define what is the gospel and let's get that right, right?

38:43

Let's talk about the virgin birth and why it matters, why the sinless walk, what happened on that cross, right?

38:48

The death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and he's coming back. Are you ready? Right? This whole picture of the story.

38:55

So, yeah, I think there is a lot of teaching going on in there, in the gospel piece, but again, not winning the argument, letting them get some steam off, but then being prepared to answer some questions and, you know,

39:06

I don't know. It's a good question. Here's what I do know. Let's talk about that. Yeah. No, that's so good because I like the emptying the cup because that actually, a transaction

39:15

I had, a conversation I had with a coworker years ago and when the Lord was first opening my eyes to the doctrines of grace,

39:22

I was definitely in my cage stage for about two years. And it took me out of it because for two years

39:30

I'm, you know, I'm bright eyed and bushy tailed and look at this, you guys. And I wanted to just, you know, jam it down their throat and I would get in arguments with people and debates and nonbelievers and I'm trying to witness it would never lead to any type of prayer or confession or anything.

39:47

And I'm going, how did people not see this? And I'm sitting with a coworker at lunch one day. It was me, her and another gentleman.

39:54

And we start talking and I, and she says something and I, something personal about her, her husband.

39:59

And I said, tell me about that. Let's go. Wait, what? So I just start listening and she starts dumping and she's saying, and I'm responding with biblical kind of principles and she's coming, but, but I'm just listening mostly.

40:11

And I, and I really felt for her because I understood where she was at. I start preaching the gospel to her after listening for about 15 minutes, totally forgetting that there's another guy there.

40:21

I'd say, can I pray for you? Move into prayer. She started, she, she confesses her sin.

40:27

She, you know, crying. Thank you. I totally forget the other guys there. The guy looks over at me after 30 minutes, he goes, can you, can you pray for me too?

40:34

Like, and, and it was like a light bulb that went off in my head. I went, oh my gosh, I didn't start coming in with theology and, and this is wrong.

40:41

And it, it was, can I just listen to you? Can you empty that cup a little bit, unload a little bit?

40:47

And she totally did. And went, oh, this guy actually cares about my soul. And then that guy saw that goes, and I was like, oh my gosh, two in one sitting, just because I shut my mouth for a minute and let the

40:57

Holy spirit work and let the drawing that the father does through me being quiet. And I went, oh, so evangelism can be times of me listening and not just talking.

41:07

And I'm in my late twenties and I'm learning that it's like, I'm an idiot. You know? So I, I, I totally agree with what you're saying there,

41:14

Brian, but just to back up really quick. I have a quick question for both you biblically. Who is the church for? Is it for believers or unbelievers?

41:21

Are we all on the same page? I, I think it's for believers.

41:26

Yeah. I would, I would say that, I would say that we gather every week to be built up in the body of Christ.

41:34

We come to worship our God. We, we come to sing praises. We came to lift him up.

41:40

Unbelievers are invited, right? It isn't for them. Absolutely.

41:46

This isn't, this isn't why we, why we have churches and why we do church. It'd be great.

41:51

You know, I, I don't, this is what I always say. It is the, it's the sheep's job to bring in more sheep.

42:00

Yeah. Right. The pastor, the pastor, yeah, he, he leads, he guides, right. But we go out, we evangelize, we bring others into the church so that they can be pastored by the shepherd.

42:12

And ultimately what that, what that is doing is, is building us up in the grace and the knowledge of our

42:18

Lord Jesus Christ to, to, to full maturity, to completion, right? He that began a good work in me is faithful to complete it.

42:24

And he's completing it through the work that the church is doing in men that, that, that believe in him, that have faith in him.

42:33

When others come, I think, I think that, I think it's poor evangelism just to say to someone,

42:38

Hey, I invite you to church. Maybe my pastor will preach an evangelistic sermon on that day. I don't know.

42:44

Right. And so that's, that's an issue. I think that every, every person, every Christian should get equipped, right.

42:51

To be able to give a defense for the faith that he has and, and be able to bring people to the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

42:59

And, you know, inviting was fine. Right. They don't understand what's going on. They don't, Hey, why are y 'all going up for communion?

43:05

What is this all about? Well, here's an opportunity for the gospel. The communion table is there for Christians, for believers.

43:13

Right. And yeah, if you're an unbeliever, you don't get to come to this table. This is also a gospel invitation.

43:20

This is where we can share that it's the body and the blood. Right. This is, you know, not physically, this is, you know, you know what

43:28

I mean? Right. But, and so what

43:34

I'm just saying is this, this is another way for us to, for us to tell about the Jesus Christ.

43:40

So great. Invite people, just know it's, it's for the Christian. All right. I'm glad you said that. No, I second that a hundred percent.

43:50

You stole all my thunder and I love it because I had a pastor tell me once, if you are inviting people to church for them to hear the gospel,

43:56

I have failed as a pastor. You should I be out there discipling them multiple times before they even step foot in this church, they should have heard the gospel from you.

44:05

And then if you want to bring them, that's fine. I mean, he was very adamant about that. He goes this, Hey, come to church.

44:10

And like you said, hope my pastor, you know, uh, has an evangelistic message.

44:16

And of course it's always in like second Chronicles or song of Solomon's or some weird thing where you're like, Oh my gosh, this is their first week at church.

44:23

He's like, no, they, they should, they should, they should be, you should be discipling already. That's your job as sheep, sheep bringing in sheep.

44:30

I'm so glad you said that, uh, Jimmy, cause that's, that's right in line. Yeah. But excuse me.

44:36

So let's put bookends on this thing. Cause we've been, uh, we've been talking here. So what, what is evangelism going to look like?

44:42

What, how has it changed in the last 10 or 20 years with technology? And what do you guys think it's going to look like in the future? I'm always interested about kind of gauging where we are in church history.

44:52

And I would say internet and stream yard and podcasts have done a huge thing for evangelism.

44:57

I mean, there are so many good podcasts and sermons. And I mean, I remember 20 years ago I was on sermon index .org.

45:04

It was like this website years ago. And I'd be looking at old Keith Green and RC Sproul, everyone that I'd never even really heard.

45:10

And I'm just listening to the audio going, Oh my gosh, I have access to this. I was in a church as well, too, sitting under a pastor.

45:16

Don't worry, everyone. I wasn't doing my own church. And, uh, so how has it changed in the last 10, 15, 20 years?

45:23

And where do you think it's going? Either one of you can jump in on that. Cause I'm interested as guys in the ministry that do this. Yeah. I think, uh, we, we saw

45:30

I'm, I'm old dude. So, um, in my life, I'm, I'm, and this is pre -Christ. So I was saved in oh nine.

45:35

So I was 44 years before, uh, uh, living in sin and, and just hellion.

45:41

But I remember the Billy Graham crusades and the TV and, and, um, dude out in Anaheim stadium, uh,

45:47

Greg Laurie, uh, crusade and the crusade seemed to be kind of, you know, the stadiums and the promise keepers and, and that whole thing.

45:54

And then, you know, kind of seemed in the O's, um, somewhere right when I got saved in oh nine,

45:59

I found Ray Comfort on YouTube. So it seemed to be YouTube, uh, watching, uh, Durbin with some of his apologetics and going out and then

46:07

James White and then, uh, watching those folks go. Um, but which is, is good, but still my passion and what

46:14

I believe the word is cleared should be first and foremost in and through our local church.

46:20

And I think unfortunately, because the office of evangelist is absent in most churches, um, that one of my goals and prayers in my lifetime to help change that.

46:31

Uh, but, um, that you have to rely on YouTube and going out, but how can we go back?

46:36

And that's one of our, our passion, none of our, our I'm blessed in my home church. We're actually starting to, uh, an evangelism ministry, but how can hearts for loss help plant evangelism ministries to do just that help launch, right?

46:48

We launched church plans. Why not plant evangelism ministries in churches or at least help, um, but to do it in and through the local church.

46:56

Now I think YouTube and podcasts like ours are great to help equip and educate and keep the ongoing discipleship, uh, of evangelists and doing it biblically.

47:06

But I still think that core, uh, biblical model that will be blessed is in and through the authority of the local church.

47:13

Um, it just gotta be, uh, through that model. So, um, yes, I think, uh, again, technology podcasts,

47:20

I think that's bringing together other like minded like us in Tullahoma. Right. Um, one of the thing too, we, uh, we're talking with, with hops and Jeffrey next year, we're going to do a evangelism pre -conference.

47:31

We're going to do a little teaching on evangelism and we're going to take 300, 400 people and go into the town of Tullahoma and proclaim the gospel boldly at an open air theology conference next year.

47:41

So praise the Lord. Right. How we can do that. We're doing that at the sovereignty of God in Texas.

47:47

That's going to be kind of our new niches. Okay. Let's go to a conference and get smart, but let's be practical. How can we, let's do a pre -conference on evangelism and go out to whatever town we're in.

47:57

Let's take this to the streets, man. I mean, let's take all this knowledge you just learned in three days and let's go.

48:03

Right. So that's kind of a, again, the profit application piece we're looking to do again in and through the local church, the authorities of the pastors, elders.

48:11

Um, so I know I answered as long answer to a short question, but I truly believe in it through the local church, but technology definitely, definitely helps.

48:19

I mean, we're, we're living, breathing proof. Yeah. I think that Brian mentioning

48:24

Ray Comfort, uh, means something because, uh, both of us had, uh, were affected by Ray Comfort's ministry.

48:30

Uh, and I would say that if you're looking back 20, 30 years, uh, that his influence or his ministry has in fact opened up the floodgates for all these different, uh, street evangelists that have been emboldened by, by his example.

48:45

I would say that was me when I saw him. I was like, wow. I mean, I never have seen this before.

48:51

Uh, it kind of drove me to learn the way the master and to go out and, and to do it and put it in practice.

48:56

I mean, uh, uh, uh, for all intents and purposes, he is, he is my, uh, evangelism example that, that helped me to get bolder about it.

49:06

Uh, do I do it exactly like he does? I use a good person test, but I think I branch off into some different things, uh, when it comes to, you know, the sovereignty of God and the fact that someone's in front of me, here's, here's, here's the thing, uh, to your, to your question, uh, where is it going with technology?

49:22

Well, uh, it's given a platform to a lot of different guys.

49:28

And here's the easy thing about, about what we're doing in, in, in this, you know, podcast realm, the

49:34

YouTube realm, uh, all these different things is that I don't, I don't think unbelievers are going and seeking out the dead men walking podcast, but now

49:43

I have the, unless I think it's a zombie show, I get that a lot.

49:50

Here's, here's, here's what I would say is that because, because, uh, uh, we're evangelists and we're out there in the streets and Hey, this might be a good thing for you to listen to.

49:58

And I can send a link like that, right? And Hey, go watch this. This is a resource for you.

50:04

This is something that, that you can do. Our evangelism doesn't stop. We still hit the streets, but when we have that question, if we, if we get equipped with some of the shows that we know that will help out and the things it's an easy thing for us to give to somebody, here's a link.

50:18

Uh, you, you know, when I'm out in the streets and I asked somebody if they have a Bible at home, the I'll say no. I said, you got a phone, right?

50:26

Download the app, download the Bible app and let, let me show you how you can get to Psalm 51.

50:31

So you can learn a biblical prayer, a repentant prayer that King David wrote and make it your own, right?

50:40

This is, this is how technology is helping me to evangelize, right? They have no excuses. The people have no excuses.

50:46

You've got technology. You've got right at your fingertips. And I heard somebody say this the other day, uh, and I thought this was profound.

50:53

Uh, if the apostles were to look at us today and see that we can actually have the Bible, right? They write in our phones at many different versions and, and many translations and, and, and, and be able to have the access to it right now, they'd be saying, why are you not like in it all the time?

51:11

It was so precious to them. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I think that that's where technology is taking us, be able to get to a fingertip right now.

51:19

There's no, there's no excuse. You can, you can do it right now. Let's take a look. Uh, so that's where I think that's helping us with evangelism.

51:27

I would even say 500 years ago, before the printing press, people were walking around going, well, the guy told me that's what it says.

51:33

I guess I just got to kind of believe it. I mean, just the fact five, 600 years ago, we didn't, you know, we didn't have what we have now.

51:40

Um, and I know I said we were going to finish up here, but this interests me so much. I want to ask Jimmy and then

51:46

Brian, maybe you guys can both give me an example. Can you give me an example of kind of what, cause you said you, you kind of do the right comfort thing, the good person test, which

51:53

I think is phenomenal. Kind of set the standard for evangelism. I agree with you there. I remember watching those in my twenties going,

51:58

Oh my gosh, it's so simple. It's so right. That he's explaining it in such a great way. What you don't have to go word for word or go into like a 20 minute diatribe, but what are, what are some approaches you take?

52:09

If I'm someone, Jimmy and Brian, and I come up to each of you and I go, Hey, I heard you talking. What is this? What is this

52:15

Jesus thing all about? What are you, what are you doing? What, what, what do you go into there? Or is it by like a person by person case?

52:21

It's always going to be law and evangelism for me, but it just depends on how the conversation goes, whether I'm using the first person or I'm actually asking this person questions.

52:30

Uh, cause sometimes I might make myself the example. I think a few of the things that I, that I've changed is that, uh, that I, from a reformed theology perspective,

52:40

I'm looking at things from, from this perspective, how I word what I'm talking about so that it makes, it makes sense to them.

52:47

But also, I mean, I think the, the important thing, uh, that I think is it's not just his death, his burial, his resurrection, it is his life.

52:59

Right. And I've added that to my evangelism so that people, the life that I couldn't live, he lived in my place.

53:06

Right. And I think this is important at, at, I don't just stop at the, at the resurrection.

53:11

I go to the, I go to the 40 days that with, that he was with his disciples. I go to the Ascension to where he was seated at the right hand of the father, the coronation of our

53:20

King on that day so that they know and understand he's King right now, reigning over all things.

53:27

And there is absolutely, if he's in control of all things, then absolutely you're standing before me at his appointment, at his calling you to hear this good news, and now you must deal with it.

53:42

And this is an important, I think, I still go through the good person test, but when I get to that place,

53:48

I'm, I'm bringing this call to them to right to their feet, to where they know Jesus put you here.

53:54

You listen, you're standing before me right now because Jesus put you here. This was his intent for you to hear this gospel.

54:00

And now you have to deal with that. And I think that, I think that really makes people think, is

54:08

God calling me? Is he calling me to him? And so I want them to go there. That's short answer.

54:14

There's, there's so much more I can say to that question. We're called to be, we're called to be fishers of men.

54:20

Right. And I think every good fisherman has a tackle box because you need different bait for different situations.

54:25

So if you, if you're so reliant on one way, and this is the way I do it and that's it, and you get thrown off, you're done. So, um,

54:32

I, I, Jimmy and I both come up with a good person. I usually like to try to find, uh, somewhere deaf, uh, in there where it'd be a star that just died.

54:38

Or yeah, man, me and my, that just made me think me and my buddy were talking about, what do you think happens when we die and let them go?

54:44

Right. That kind of will go down there for path. And then, you know, if, if there's a habit, do you believe in heaven or in hell? Do you think haven't, do you think you're good enough person to go there?

54:51

Man, someone did this test on me years ago. Radical changed my life. Want to, want to take the good person test real quick? Sure. Run them through it.

54:58

Right. Um, Jimmy uses the riddle. Um, uh, uh, we, we had this riddle from, from living waters, um, that we kind of borrowed, but he let us do it.

55:06

Right. Um, so Jimmy uses, we use the riddle on the street. We'll do trivia on the street to kind of get just general trivia going to draw a crowd and then, then get into good person tests.

55:16

And I'll use either Chick -fil -A card or some kind of gift card to, to, to get them on the box. I got a, uh, uh, you saw the camera, uh, that I had for the interview for you.

55:25

I'll take that on the street and just start asking people random. You know, the, the four things people think about the most is who are you, where you come from, what's your purpose here on life and what happens when you die?

55:35

You want to do a quick survey. I'd love to hear your answers. And then obviously walk through the first three. I want to get into the fourth. What happens when you die?

55:40

And then that leads into the good person. So again, multiple, um, different ways, uh, to get there.

55:47

Um, and you can do it with people. And I always like to invite other people to come. Look, I'm, you're not ready yet. Fine. Come and just watch.

55:53

Pray for us. Be a crowd. Cause a fake crowd draws another crowd. If I got four or five people that are in my team, right.

55:59

That are listening to the trivia, for example, that draws other people. What are they looking at? And then by the way, if one peels away, let's say we're doing 20 people, let's say a person peels away.

56:09

One of my team guys can go get them and say, Hey, by the way, what, why are you walking away? Curious? What, what turned you off?

56:15

I'm, I'm, you know, I'm thinking the same thing. It just gets into whole different, uh, avenues of discipleship that you can do.

56:22

But, um, yeah. And he always learned different things. I'll be talking to Jimmy. We'll go to G3. We talked to people.

56:27

It's like, oh, I never thought of that. We're going to try it. You know, it's a lot of hit and miss. Um, but at the end of the day, um, it's getting to the law, right.

56:35

Getting to, have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever blasphemed? Use God's name in vain. Have you ever looked with lust?

56:42

There's just four of the 10, 90 % of the people, or at least three out of the four they've done. And again, if you just told one lie, every lie, part of the lake of fire, right?

56:50

You've, you've, uh, if you've broken one, you've broken a wall. So, um, but it is just a very easy way.

56:57

Again, the law shuts their mouth. So they don't argue, right. It convicts them of the sin. They didn't know sin until they saw the law.

57:03

And when you repeat, I'm telling you the moment of, uh, when you ask them the questions, let's say, Greg, you were for the four out of four.

57:09

And then I just repacked. I said, let me just understand. I'm not condemning you, but Greg, you've admitted me. You're lying thief, blasphemer and an adulterer at heart.

57:16

When you just play it back to them in that way, man, you just see, they're just like, I've never looked at it that way.

57:23

And again, it's that song. Sometimes that Psalm 51 moment, right? You see your sin against God, not against, I just cheated on that person or lied or whatever.

57:31

Um, but it is, that's the moment that you kind of know, but do you know what God did for guilty sinners?

57:36

You don't have to go to hell. Right. Once we walk them through what happens. So it's just, it's just a, a, and Ray, Ray didn't come up, we were talking about this with, with Hapsin and Jeffrey.

57:45

Ray didn't come up with a way of the master, right? Jesus did. And the reformers used it for years.

57:51

And Spurgeon talked about a law in the gospel has been, uh, our, our, uh, you know, the biblical model for a long time.

57:57

Ray just, just, you know, like Calvin, right? Calvin didn't come up with Calvinism. He just systematized it. I think Ray did a really good job at the time of packaging and modeled it, not just sold it, but modeled it for so many years.

58:10

Um, that you, and then invited us to come participate in it. Jimmy and I met each other.

58:15

Now we're doing a podcast. Now we're talking to you. It's just God's just amazing what he's doing with it. Do we get to hear the riddle,

58:21

Jimmy? Yeah. The man who made it, didn't need it. The man who bought it, didn't use it. The man who used it, didn't know it.

58:29

What is it? Are you going to guess Greg? Oh, geez. I got nothing on that. On our banner that we put up on, on, on the street.

58:39

There's a, there's a riddle. I mean, there's a, there's a hint on the banner. It's death. It has something to do with that.

58:46

Now listen again, the man who made it, didn't need it. Boom. It's a coffin. Okay. Yeah. When you, when you say coffin like that,

58:54

I will just say you win a million. I give you a million dollar bill track. That's funny. And then

58:59

I have a, I have a followup question. What happens after the coffin? Yep. What do you believe happens when we die?

59:07

Right. And so then then we're in a conversation and I have, I have hardly ever seen anybody just walk away from me after doing that riddle.

59:16

They want to, they want to stick around and hear what I have to say about it. I have a ton of conversations off that riddle and me and a friend of mine rodeo and we hit the bridge and every time we hit the bridge, we're always a little saddened that there aren't more evangelists with us because there are people that we can't get to that are trying to solve the riddle while we're talking to somebody else.

59:33

And I'm sitting there going, can we get more evangelists out here to help us with the, with the crowd?

59:39

You know, cause they do gather and then they're all trying to solve that riddle. I just don't have time to talk to all of them, you know?

59:45

And so anyway. Yeah. So, all right, let's, let's truly finish this up here.

59:50

So guys, hearts for the lost ministry and hearts for the lost podcast. Go listen to the podcast guys. Go subscribe, download it.

59:57

Listen to what these guys are talking about. Jimmy and Brian. And for anyone listening out there that may be in, they make decisions in the church or something.

01:00:05

Can you touch on really quick how someone could get in contact with you, Brian, to have your team come out and set up some type of evangelism ministry or, or, you know, kind of what you were explaining earlier.

01:00:15

Cause I find that very interesting and we need more of that in church. So how can someone get in touch with you if they're interested in that?

01:00:23

Yeah. Hearts for the lost .com. Check out the about us. Check out, we've got a team of nine guys across the country.

01:00:28

Uh, no idea what that is right there. Uh, but, uh, we got nine guys across the country.

01:00:34

Um, that, that we will only go in and through the local church. We gotta have a pastor or elder.

01:00:40

Is that me? I don't know. I think it was clicking. That's all right.

01:00:46

Sorry. It's okay. It's just during the pitch of the ministry. Okay. Come on.

01:00:53

Yeah. No, we'll press on. Right. Stanford. Um, not today, but anyway, uh, yeah.

01:01:00

So hearts for the lost .com. Yeah. Go there. Contact us. Again, we won't do it unless the local pastor or elder, uh, sponsors it.

01:01:07

We don't want anybody going rogue in their church. Right. But again, we'll go to any church in the country for free and put on an evangelism event.

01:01:15

We also want to help plan a ministry if that's what you want to do, but we'll do an event. It's a one day or, uh, we'll come in on a

01:01:21

Friday again, anywhere in the country in the morning. Uh, you provide the people, the place, some, some technology to show you feed them lunch.

01:01:28

And then after lunch, three hours of teaching, uh, we will take them out in the street, wherever they're at their local watering hole.

01:01:34

And we'll put it into practice. Kind of like what Jesus did, right? He taught, then he showed them how to do it. And then he walked along while they did it and then he cast them off.

01:01:42

So we're trying to use that model. Uh, but again, um, uh, harsh philosophy .com send it to us.

01:01:47

But the big thing is, you know, we know there's a lot of smaller churches out there that, you know, don't have the budgets working, you know, uh, just pastors doing 14 different things.

01:01:57

Um, so we want to take that burden off. Uh, we have donors, uh, that take care of us and that's a beautiful thing, uh, to allow us to go to, again, uh, uh, we haven't, we've not in 15 years, not been able to not go somewhere, uh, when the

01:02:10

Lord's called us to go there. So yeah, that's the mission. And again, just to educate, equip and excite believers to share their faith biblically, wherever God's placed them.

01:02:18

It's not about all about street evangelism, right? Yes, we do go out in the street, but we, we share practical tips, how to pray for the waiter or waitress at beat ups or how to, um, you know, have a one -on -one conversation at work or how to start, uh, and utilize some of the techniques, uh, wherever God's placed you.

01:02:34

So, uh, it's all encompassing, um, but we do it with love and a heart again, a heart for the lost.

01:02:40

And we always say, uh, you know, how much do I have to hate someone not to share our faith? If we truly have the way of salvation and can share it, uh, why wouldn't we?

01:02:49

So, um, we just want to help other people do it. And that's been our mission. And that's what Jimmy and I and our team, uh,

01:02:54

Jimmy just got promoted to vice president. So we're, uh, uh, uh, uh, just trying to go out and again and, and get, get folks, uh, amped up to, to share their faith.

01:03:04

Oh man. And I'm assuming too really quick that if people, if someone's listening and they want to donate to the ministry, they can do that at hearts for the loss, right?

01:03:13

There is, there is a donate button and this is very important. You're doing this for free to churches, right?

01:03:18

And listeners, we need, we need people donating to ministries like this as well.

01:03:24

Maybe you can't in where you're at in life. Can't do that. Uh, or can't, you know, can't travel with them. These guys are doing that.

01:03:30

Uh, donate your labor, donate your, your money to that. So I just wanted to make that clear. If someone's listening and goes, yeah,

01:03:35

I would like to donate. They can do it at the website. Correct. Amen. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Click on the donate button.

01:03:40

Become a little 501 three C tax deductible. All that. Yes, sir. Awesome guys.

01:03:46

Thanks so much for being here tonight. Um, I absolutely love talking to you. I love what you guys are doing.

01:03:51

I love your hearts. It was fun hanging out with you for a few days down in Tullahoma. I can hardly wait until we meet again.

01:03:57

Um, when we're there next year, you guys got a final word, either one want to throw something out there as we, uh, end this thing.

01:04:03

Well, give it to him. Give it to him. Like we always say, have a heart and go share your faith. I love it.

01:04:09

All right, guys. That was Brian and Jimmy. Make sure you check them out. Everything's going to be linked up in the description below.

01:04:15

Make sure you click through, check them out, follow them, subscribe. If you've, if you led donate, uh,

01:04:20

I can vouch for these brothers, man. Uh, just absolutely love it. Saw it in action. Saw the evangelism in action in Tullahoma.

01:04:26

Got me all excited again to go on. Oh yeah. There's brothers out there doing what the Lord has told us to do.

01:04:32

I love it. And, uh, they're theologically sound. They're good guys. So I love that they were here.

01:04:37

Um, guys, remember you can always check out more about us at dmwpodcast .com. You can follow us on all socials at dead men walking podcast, except for Twitter.

01:04:45

They wouldn't give us that. So it's real dmw podcast. I'm still, I'm still working through that. You know, I really like that.

01:04:51

I got one social. That's not the same, but whatever. Uh, but you can, you can find out more about us.

01:04:56

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01:05:03

Uh, definitely keep giving us those suggestions as well. And remember the chief end of man is the glorify

01:05:09

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