Our New Dividing Line Search Engine and More

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

10

Comments are disabled.

00:31

Oh boy, well, uh, hi! We're late getting started.

00:37

I doubt this is actually gonna work. Um, the computer that Rich uses to get in, it's

00:45

Windows, and Windows dies eventually. All Windows computers do. It's just part of the design of it,

00:52

I guess. Um, so, we, I'm sitting here trying to start the program, and it goes to Facebook.

01:02

And then, of course, Rich is looking at, uh, software, um, on Windows, and I'm looking at software on Mac, and stuff isn't at the same place, and we'll go here.

01:18

Is it, well, there is no there. That's, that's not what it looks like on mine. Uh, so, yeah, that was not how to start the program at all.

01:26

Um, but, uh, that's, that's life, and so we're doing the best we can.

01:32

We're still on the road, and things happen, and I'm told it's working, so there you go.

01:39

Um, sorry about that delay, about a five minute delay, while we were messing around with stuff to try to do things, and I will probably mess things up as we're going along, too.

01:49

So, uh, that's what happens when you, you get all discombobulated right from the start. So, um, before I forget,

01:58

I mentioned on the last program that this incredible indexing thing that has been going on for, well, since February, I think, because the fella came up to me at the conference in Tullahoma, where you can now put in a search parameter, phrase, term, something along those lines, and you can search an

02:31

AI -generated, um, database of the dividing line, and I think the debates, too.

02:40

I'm not sure if the debates are in there right now, but I know the dividing line, and hopefully, eventually, all my sermons will be, too.

02:47

Uh, now, obviously, one of the issues is, and I, I saw this, um, there's a lot of terminology that I use.

03:00

You know, when I'm reading Greek, I really doubt that it's doing what it needs to do, and being able to figure out what the

03:08

Greek is, and things like that. So, it's not flawless, um, but what

03:15

I wanted to do is show you, uh, let's look at it here.

03:21

Um, I wanted to show you where it's at now. So, if you go to aomin .org,

03:29

there is a new entry right here, right in the middle, up in the upper,

03:35

I don't know which menu bar, I guess, called transcripts. Transcripts, and so you press transcripts, and up this comes, and you'll see

03:53

Let's Church over here. That's the website that's doing all this stuff that we're working with. Let's Church beta, and search channel, and so you can pop stuff in there.

04:09

Let's, let's put in CBGM, and hit return, and you get

04:17

Media 9 Transcripts 119, and so here are, uh, videos, uh, dividing lines, basically.

04:31

A lot of them have CBGM in the

04:38

ECM of Mark, Mormon's Hide in Basements, Gregory on the Spirit. It's hard to get. I've always hated coming up with titles.

04:45

I really, whenever I'm, whenever I'm out and about, uh, people are like, uh, whatever, um, and, you know, speaking of churches, what sermon title do you want?

04:56

I'll leave that up to you. It's just not something I want to do, but then if you click on transcripts, this is really neat.

05:03

Um, here's 120, and you'll notice what happens here is it says at 52 .50

05:13

in the dividing line, it looks like the dividing line of January 2nd, 2019, um, and tomorrow we'll talk about CBGM.

05:23

CBGM has introduced a conjectural amendation, so there it gives you an actual, uh, portion of the transcript.

05:35

Uh, Tim Keller on Jesus Getting Close to You, DTS and Ephesians 5, the Book of Abraham at 44 .32.

05:43

I'll be really interested in seeing what CBGM, what light CBGM, and then if you, if you want, you can, uh, click on something like that, and, uh, well, for example, here's one, uh, at 45 .04,

05:59

First John 5 .7, The Kamiohonium Examined, and so I click on the transcript, and look what it does.

06:08

Now, I have this silence at the moment, but no, I guess I didn't.

06:13

CBGM has, you know, doesn't give any place whatsoever to the

06:19

Kamiohonium. It can't. There's not enough manuscript. Okay, so I will need to silence it, or we're gonna be talking over each other, but, but notice what it's, what it's doing.

06:29

It's playing that, uh, particular episode, and when you go over here to the transcript, and that is a really incredible feature on YouTube.

06:43

The problem is, um, that that's also how they censor speech.

06:51

So, you know, most everything that we're, we're facing today, you know, when we first started using

07:02

Google, and just what an incredible assistance it is for driving, and, and stuff like that.

07:11

That's the positive side, and if you could trust the people with that data, that wouldn't be a problem, but you can't.

07:18

So, they know everywhere you've ever been, everywhere you've wanted to go, everywhere you've driven, um, and they're just part of this.

07:26

It's Big Brother, and you can't trust Big Brother. Big Brother is your enemy, and so, uh, but here's also an example of where I said, you know, nothing's perfect yet, um, probably never will be.

07:43

Notice in the transcript, it says, we don't have to have time to go into today, called CBGM, Coherent Space Genealogical Method.

07:50

CBGM doesn't give any place whatsoever to the, and notice the transcript,

07:59

Kamionium. It can't. There just aren't enough manuscripts. Well, that's

08:04

Kamayohonium. So, that's a Latin phrase, and it does the best it can, but if you were to do a search for Kamayohonium, you'd probably end up missing a lot from the transcripts, because it's not necessarily going to sync up.

08:23

Now, if you spell it right, it'll, it'll find it in titles of, because it's in the title right down here.

08:31

You can see it right there. Scroll it up a little bit. Um, it's, it's in the, it's spelled right in the, in the title, so it'll pull that up, but you could miss some other stuff, and so for, um,

08:46

Bible references, most Bible references, this should be able to pull it up.

08:51

I mean, as long as I used it, as long as I gave the reference.

08:57

Um, so, uh, let me see here. Uh, Romans, I'm just doing this on the run, on the fly here.

09:11

So, I put in Romans 5 -1, the media says 2251.

09:18

That seems, that's probably because 5 -1.

09:24

Maybe you have to, let, let's see, let's see if we put, I've not played with this myself. We're just, people were asking, what are you talking about?

09:35

Okay, you put, put the quotes around it, and that does limit it somewhat to 1179 in media and 102 transcripts.

09:47

Um, so, yeah, well, that worked.

09:53

Look at this one. So, all scriptura continue with interact, and with interaction with Carla Broussard of Catholic Answers, and then you click on the, uh, let me roll it up so you can see it there.

10:04

Click on the transcript section.

10:10

I'm not sure if you can see it, that sort of, it's not really grayed out, but it has a different color on my screen.

10:16

Um, I'm not sure that's coming through or well, but anyway, let's click on this. And if it does not accurately represent what

10:24

Romans 5 -1 says, you're going to be better off just reading Romans 5 -1 without reading 47 volumes.

10:30

It'll just confuse you in the process. So, that, that pulled up Romans 5 -1, and that was from seven years ago.

10:41

Um, I was nice and skinny back then, and in the best shape of my life, um, before my heart went crazy.

10:47

Anyway, uh, yeah, you can find that kind of stuff. This is, this is something

10:52

I've dreamed about. Of course, I dreamed about some poor volunteer going through and tagging all this stuff.

11:02

It would have taken, um, uh, three generations of some poor volunteer doing this,

11:10

I guess. But there it is, and, um, I'm sure the scanning type software will, uh, only get better over time,

11:19

I would assume. Could be wrong about that. Uh, but pretty amazing stuff.

11:26

I mean, you gotta, you gotta admit, that's, wow, it's, look, as I've said before, it's a little scary.

11:36

I, I mean, all of you who are ministers, preachers, teachers, who recognize you're going to be held accountable for what you've said, oh, it, obviously,

11:49

God's transcript of everything we have ever said, typed, and everything else is perfect.

11:56

And, um, so it does make you go, it, it really makes you think about responsibility for what you say, and what you type, and everything else.

12:12

Um, you know, it makes me, makes me wonder if, if we could get permission from Bethany House and my other publishers to include my books, um, in a fully searchable database as well.

12:29

If you had the books, if you had the, if you had the blog, so all the articles from the blog, um, you had the sermons, the debates, the dividing lines, about the only thing left would be text messages,

12:46

I guess. Um, tweets, I bet you, I bet you, you could do that with Twitter.

12:53

I bet you really could, because I think there is a download all of your tweets option type thing, and that would pretty much be it.

13:03

It'd be a pretty complete, complete record. Oh, okay.

13:11

All right. Um, there it is. That's, um, that's not scary, but great in, in a sense.

13:20

Um, so it's right up there under transcripts, uh, at topofaomin .org,

13:27

and try it out. Check it out. Uh, I may, during dividing lines, throw out, hey, could someone see, could someone find out when

13:43

I first used this illustration, when I first used this phrase, that type of thing. I bet you it would work.

13:49

We already did that, because I, I think on one of the recent programs, I said, you know, I don't know how long it is

13:55

I've been saying it. It's, solo scripture is not you and your Bible under a tree out in the forest someplace, and so somebody threw it in there, and oh yeah, back in 2002, you were saying, so over 20 years.

14:06

Now the database only goes back to 98, and the dividing line as a radio program started,

14:17

I'm not sure we first named it that, because we named our newsletter the dividing line first,

14:25

I think. They were probably contemporaneous. It's probably around the same time.

14:31

Who knows? Um, but, uh, you know, we don't have that stuff, so it's not absolutely exhaustive, and to be honest with you,

14:42

I'm very glad about that. Uh, you know, I mean, I, I, we do have like the atheism series we did back in the, oh, that would have been late 80s, and maybe, maybe, maybe the early 90s, and I stumbled across something, one of the debates

15:07

I did, and I didn't, I was still developing my presuppositional understanding of things, and so there were, you know, when

15:17

I was still in Bible College, and I was doing the Tom Likas show with atheists on KFYI Radio in Phoenix, I was not a presuppositionalist, and so there'd be all sorts of stuff there where you just go, uh, but anyway, uh, there it, there it goes.

15:34

Over here on the right hand side, I'm watching Rich trying to fix the Windows computer. It's just like Bill Gates, man.

15:42

It's just Bill Gates. Okay, so transcripts, top of the website, enjoy, do it, uh, see what you can find, and, uh, and go from there.

15:52

Uh, Gregory Cole is the name of the individual that I will be debating on September 16th in Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

16:05

He is the author of a book, Gregory Coles, it's got an s at the end, forgive me,

16:13

Gregory Coles. He is the author of the book, Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.

16:23

InterVarsity Press is the publisher of said book, and so for those of you who were really excited about the

16:34

Brownson debate, um, this might be, uh, in fact, a half an hour ago, uh,

16:48

I got an email, or not email, a message from Chris Arnzen. Gregory Cole's assistant sent me the contract, so it's official, hallelujah, and, uh, so, so there you go with that, um, but, um, this will be, um, oh, that's interesting, 3 30 p .m.

17:09

in the afternoon on September 16th. Now, the, uh, the location sounds weird, but it's not.

17:19

It's called SpookyNooksSports .com, but evidently it is, uh, the

17:28

Republican candidate for governor in the last race, um, or was it

17:35

Senate governor? Well, anyways, one of the Republicans, I think it was, uh, for governor, uh, had one of his biggest rallies there, so I guess it's a really, really nice location.

17:46

It's just sort of the name issue, excuse me, the name issue is a little bit like when we had a debate at the

17:56

Grind. Uh, that was the name of the place, the Grind in, uh, in Florida, so sometimes the name is, um, but the location is actually really nice and should work really well.

18:08

This debate will be hosted by the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

18:15

You can register at futureofchristendom .org. We will, we're having a graphic put together, uh, to put this up, futureofchristendom .org,

18:24

and in some ways, some people have mentioned that this is probably providential.

18:32

Obviously, I want to be able to interact, um, with Dr. Brownson's thesis, which has been picked up by many other people, uh, but the revoice, gay

18:48

Christian, uh, yes, it's appropriate to identify a Christian in this fashion movement.

18:57

Um, I'm not, I didn't look at the dates, but this conference is going to be taking place pretty much contemporaneously at, uh,

19:07

Andy Stanley's church with, uh, David Gushy and stuff like that. That's where we are right now.

19:14

That's where we are right now. I've already interacted with the primary element of Brownson's stuff on the

19:19

Divine Line. In fact, you could put Brownson in the transcript search bar and you'll pull it up because I played,

19:29

I was playing, I know that I stopped somewhere, but I was playing

19:35

Brownson's presentation at one of Matthew Vine's events and responding to it because I remember a lot of the details.

19:41

He was talking about certain Greek philosophical perspectives, allegedly is behind Romans 1, and I, I went into a rebuttal of that.

19:50

And now all you gotta do is throw that at, at the transcript search bar and you should be able to pull it up yourself and access that information.

19:59

And, um, uh, there you go. Um, so the Gregory Coles debate may actually be more relevant, um, to, to that particular, um, that particular thing.

20:13

So, uh, September 16th, coming up less than two months. Um, I already have his book.

20:19

I may have read it. Um, but it's not ringing specific bells, so obviously

20:26

I will reread it if I haven't read it before. And, um, hopefully you all will find that to be a very useful debate.

20:34

And then, uh, the other debates that I mentioned coming up in, uh,

20:41

February, inclusive of, now just, just pray for this. Okay, we have so many critics and opponents that listen that, so I'm just speaking to those of you who support the ministry, care about the ministries, uh, that type of thing.

21:00

It is going to be hard for me to figure out how to get, um,

21:08

Trent Horn, Dale Tuggy, uh, Leighton Flowers, myself, to Houston at the right times, along with traveling to, um,

21:29

Conway, Arkansas to teach a class and a subject that I have not taught before, which means between now and then

21:37

I've got that to be working on as well. Um, and to Tullahoma, Tennessee for the

21:47

Calvinism conference where Tom Bucks could be speaking. I'm gonna be a bunch of, a bunch of guys are gonna be speaking and I'm supposed to do a debate, um, with our landmark

22:00

Baptist friend from last February who hopefully will not be speaking quite as fast.

22:07

Um, and I've somehow got to do this all in February to early

22:12

March at, at the best. And it's one thing if you are hopping back and forth in a plane, but that's not how

22:20

I travel. So the complexities are many. Uh, so for those of you who want to see this kind of thing happening and you're going, yeah, that we,

22:34

Trent Horn topics, Sol Scotura, we're going to be talking about Theanostas and Trent.

22:45

Um, I'll have TLG up. I'll be ready to deal with Poirier's arguments from semantic domains, and you're the one that presented the argumentation.

22:57

So you've got to be able to defend it. You've called it the death knell of solo scriptura. Hey, if you want to dump it and say,

23:04

I'm not going to do that. Okay, fine. Um, but you're going to have to be prepared for it.

23:11

And the other topics purgatory. And a lot of folks like, ah, the purgatory. Uh, y 'all ever watched the debate

23:19

I did with Peter Stravinskis on purgatory. That was a clearer delineation of the biblical doctrine of justification from the

23:29

Roman Catholic understanding than any other debate I've seen. 2001, 22 years ago.

23:36

Um, I hadn't even started shaving my head. I started later that year, I think. Um, but, um, vital importance to be able to debate that topic.

23:49

And again, the issue is very clearly the apostles had no concept of such a thing. It is utterly absent from anything that we can say comes from the apostles of Jesus Christ.

24:01

And therefore, if it is dogma of Rome, this demonstrates Rome teaches for dogma, that which the apostles never dreamed of.

24:07

So you have to come up with some idea of new revelation if you're going to come up with that. Oh, I know the development, know it very, very well over centuries, but it took a long time, at least a thousand years to reach the final form that it has, um, say in the 15th century.

24:26

Council of Florence, places like that. So, um, those are vitally important.

24:32

The Dale Tuggy debate obviously is Jesus Yahweh. And by the way, I am wide open.

24:39

I hope you all realize how much work I am gladly saying

24:47

I will take on over the next few months. Uh, but I will gladly do a doubleheader with Dale Tuggy and I will debate

25:01

Dale Tuggy's thesis on John 1 because he has, he has material in his books, sitting right there.

25:09

Uh, he's done entire presentations at Unitarian conferences on John 1 .1

25:15

and it's real, it's real basics, real simple. He's always citing somebody else and that makes him utterly incapable of mounting a text -based defense for the comments he makes about the text.

25:34

And so I would love to have that happen as well. I think that would be extremely useful. Um, uh,

25:41

Leighton Flowers, John 6, this was a topic that was actually raised to him by Evan McClanahan, the pastor there at, uh, in Houston, I think over a year ago.

25:57

I think it was at the Stratton debate, I think. Anyway, I don't want to speak out of turn there, but I think it was.

26:04

And so, um, should be very useful. Um, I mean, obviously, vitally important text.

26:15

So lots and lots of stuff. I mean, lots and lots of stuff coming up that is, um, yeah, that's, hey, that's why we do what we're doing.

26:25

And so I want to let you know about what's coming up, but the one that you can be getting, you know, registering for and stuff like that right now is with Gregory Coles.

26:39

I'm, I could be wrong. Maybe the Tullahoma conference is already registrable.

26:47

I'm, I haven't looked. I'm not sure. Uh, it's possible. Uh, look up Jeffrey Rice, Post Anabish Lux on Facebook, and there might be something there already.

26:57

I don't know. Um, probably is, but let you know that that's something you can do.

27:02

But the Gregory Coles debate, um, in on September 16th, um, that is already available for, um, sign up and for registration.

27:12

So there you go. Exciting stuff. All right. So one of the professors who

27:22

I've known for a long, long time, we don't, we don't stay a lot in contact right now.

27:29

Um, but, um, a fellow that I knew back when he was doing his doctoral studies long, long ago overseas, because he was a regular part of our chat channel back.

27:42

We had a chat channel from 1996 to, I think it was, was that 2016? Uh, around there.

27:49

Um, and, or maybe it's 2019. I don't remember. Uh, 2019 sounds more like,

27:57

I think it's about like 23 years. Uh, 2017 ish, Rich says. Okay. Uh, he was sort of our overnight guy.

28:07

He'd keep an eye on the channel overnight because he lived, lived, he was doing his PhD work,

28:13

I recall in Edinburgh. So there was a time shift, which would allow him to do that.

28:19

But he teaches at RTS in Charlotte and posted a screenshot that he has been blocked on Twitter by Credo Magazine.

28:36

And the, the number of people who have that particular screenshot is very large today.

28:43

It really seems that to be a Thomist is to be very sensitive. This, I need a safe space.

28:51

I, I don't think the Dominicans provided any safe spaces in Thomas's day. So things have changed along those lines, but it's just like, and, and I tweeted, uh, publicly,

29:04

I said, well, you know, you, you have said some nice things about me in the past. And, um, he says, yeah, but I thought that was off the record.

29:13

It's like, yeah, that's, that's about the only way you should ever say anything nice about me is off the record these days, because, uh, there's a lot of folks that will make you pay for them.

29:23

But what I'm seeing and what a lot of people are seeing is now we have one of the well -known, um,

29:35

Thomistic aficionados saying that we need a new and improved edition of Calvin's Institutes.

29:47

And why is that? Well, one of the, now what's funny is, and this is

29:55

Matthew Barrett, by the way, he says, we need a new and improved edition of Calvin's Institutes. McNeill inserts over 40 scriptures into the opening chapters, which masks

30:05

Calvin's natural theology and gives the impression he's at odds with Aquinas.

30:15

Oh, really? Huh. How interesting.

30:24

Because, you know, I, I sort of thought that everybody knew that those were editorial insertions, that they weren't

30:37

Calvin. That these are editions that have editorial notes that give cross -references, allusions, references to sources that necessarily weren't a part of Calvin's original work.

30:55

And so isn't it amazing, um, that you could insert Bible references to what

31:03

Calvin's referring to, and it's like, no, we don't want those. That makes it sound like he's opposed to Thomas and we don't want anyone being opposed to Thomas.

31:13

The patron saint of us all now. We've lost our minds about him. So we want Calvin to have lost his mind.

31:19

There's only one problem with that. And that is, as everybody knows, there are exactly two references, two sections, where Calvin specifically refers to Aquinas.

31:31

Now he, hundreds and hundreds of places to Augustine and to other, uh, writers that he appreciates,

31:39

John Chrysostom and things like that. Um, so he certainly knows of Aquinas, but he, the, the one, the one reference is just a neutral reference, just a, you know, talks about this at such and such place.

31:58

And then the other is a negative one, arguing with Thomas's understanding of grace in predestination and merit and relationship and all the rest of that kind of stuff.

32:09

And of course, today, um, you've, you've never spoken to a

32:16

Thomist unless they have told you, you just haven't read enough of Aquinas's works because that is all you ever hear.

32:26

It's just, if you just read more of him, like the rest of us, you'd get the glazed look, you'd become easily offended, brittle, need safe spaces, stuff like that.

32:37

Um, it's very obvious that, um, don't worry about the sounds that Rich is making in the background.

32:50

It's okay. Um, it's very, very obvious, um, that Calvin could have used more of Aquinas, but he did not have any desire to do so, that he found

33:05

Aquinas to be a really, um, not useful source.

33:13

Now remember, he initially wrote the Institutes as a defense of the faith to the

33:18

King of France, who was persecuting Protestant believers. And so it was, it was always his intention that this work be a, an overall summary of the faith and a defense of that faith.

33:33

And he did not find Thomas Aquinas to be a useful person in that task.

33:42

And I wouldn't either. And I think more and more people now that it's being shoved in our faces and books are being put out and major publishers are being used to put this stuff out there and, and you've got all this stuff going on.

33:58

I think more and more people are realizing the same thing. I was talking with a well -known

34:06

Christian scholar who's written books on Thomas, but who is not a big Thomas fan.

34:13

And I said, you know, I heard you once say, um, that reading Thomas Aquinas dries your soul.

34:22

And he said, I said that? I don't remember saying that, but that's a fairly accurate summary. And that's exactly how

34:29

I feel. Um, I realize that I have

34:34

Christian brothers and maybe even Christian sisters who read

34:39

Aquinas and are thrilled or at least benefited in some fashion.

34:47

Um, I am not by any stretch of the imagination when you compare the, um, enjoyment that I received from reading

34:59

Calvin over against reading the same amount of Thomas.

35:07

I mean, if I read three pages of Calvin, I want more. If I read three pages of Thomas, I'm ready to go to sleep.

35:15

And I'm not the only one that comes to that conclusion. I'm really not. And it's not just the style because I can read

35:23

Edwards. I can find a large, large enough print edition these days. Uh, but I can read

35:28

Edwards and Edwards is not as flowing and communicative a writer as Calvin was.

35:42

In fact, the amazing thing is how good Calvin is even in translation. You're not reading the

35:48

Latin or the French because as you may know, he kept writing both versions.

35:54

He had a French edition of the institutes and a Latin edition of the institutes and would do revisions of each one.

36:01

Um, and so it's amazing at how well

36:07

Calvin flows, even in translation. And most people just can't write that well. You know, you've heard me say it and you can prove it now.

36:18

Um, in fact, someone should throw out, um, the inks still wet.

36:27

If you just throw that at the, uh, at the search engine, the transcript search engine from let's church, um, and see what that pulls up.

36:36

How many times I've mentioned that, uh, on the dividing line since 1998, but I have said repeatedly that in my opinion, when you read the institutes, the ink smudges, so it might be the ink smudges or the ink still wet terminology like that.

36:54

Uh, and what I'm meaning by that, and I don't know that I got it from somebody else. I might've, but what

37:03

I mean by that is, uh, it's so relevant today.

37:11

And I've normally said along with it, my writing is never going to be like that. Uh, no, uh, there was just something special about so much, especially the beginning of the institutes that just remains relevant for such a long period of time.

37:29

I guess there are some people that feel the same way about Thomas. I do not, I don't by any stretch of the imagination.

37:38

And, um, so the, the meme now, the idea that's being presented now is that Calvin and Luther, they were just, they were just ignorant of Thomas.

37:52

They hadn't done enough reading in Thomas. And so we need new additions to, um, unmask

38:03

Calvin's natural theology, uh, and to, to demonstrate that he's not at odds with Aquinas, which is why he only quotes him twice and once negatively in the entirety of the institutes, because he loved him so much.

38:22

No, he didn't. And everybody knows it. Um, and there was a reason for that.

38:30

There was a reason that Calvin could recognize what we ought to recognize. And that is the fundamental different source, ultimate foundational source of divine truth between Calvin and Aquinas.

38:45

And, um, so watch out for future new additions of Calvin that try to turn him into a fan of Thomas Aquinas when the reality is he was not.

38:59

Uh, okay. Uh, I have a few more, I have a few screenshots. Uh, I think

39:05

I'll just pull, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll pull signal over here so I can see anything that Rich has to say.

39:12

Um, and, oh, well, you know what, real quickly,

39:19

I did not see a response from Brother Camp, uh, to my discussion on the last dividing line, uh, about his statements that all theonomic post -millennialists mistranslate

39:37

Matthew 28, 19 through 20. We demonstrated that that is a misuse of the term translation.

39:43

And it is an issue of a, of understanding of what it means to disciple the nations.

39:56

And I actually agreed, uh, that given the participial phrases that are modifying the verb that's baptizing and teaching, that this is individual.

40:13

But if you have 90 % of a nation and, and I, I just really,

40:21

I remember where I was when, when I honestly said, you know,

40:28

I'm a Calvinist, but do

40:34

I really believe that God could do that? That God could bring about that kind of change?

40:40

Because much of the rejection of it is, well, that's, that could never happen. It's just, just look at what's happened in church history.

40:46

Well, yeah, if, if you're, if you're thinking we're right at the end, we're, we're, we're at the, we're not near the church anymore or middle or anything else.

40:56

Um, okay, then you can use that as an argument, I suppose. But man, as a Calvinist, you really can't just sit there and say,

41:03

God can't do that. God cannot, uh, draw a majority of the people of a nation to Christ.

41:15

And I realized you're being really inconsistent as a Calvinist. You've, your entire ministry's in basement.

41:21

Let's go talk to the Mormons. Oh, they're too hard to talk to. Back at North Phoenix Baptist Church, why do you all bother the

41:27

Mormons? I mean, come on, there, there's plenty of lost people. Don't worry about them. Yeah. Okay.

41:33

Well, so I've always believed God has his elect everywhere. So how can

41:38

I argue that God doesn't have a large number of elected? Maybe he's like the sand of the sea or the stars of the sky or something like that.

41:46

I don't know. Read that somewhere in the Bible. Anyhow, um, so there was a, uh, a tweet.

41:56

We'll take a quick look at it here. Oh, look at that. Um, Steve says, there's not one passage of scripture,

42:05

Ben, I guess he's talking to someone named Ben, um, that speaks of the atonement or the outwork of the atonement is to Christianize nations.

42:14

Not one. Okay. The atonement is personal.

42:21

Election is personal. But election is not disconnected from God's entire purposes.

42:32

So, uh, I've said again, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to keep saying

42:38

I've said for decades, because now people can check it all out for themselves. But I've said over and over again that a, uh, discerning, believing, healthy church is a blessing on a nation.

42:55

And I stand by that. And I don't know how anybody could dispute that. Um, so the, the, if, if that's true, then the individual salvation of the people that make up the church is a part of God's dealing with a nation as a whole.

43:18

So in other words, if God wants to withdraw his blessing from a nation, then that's going to impact the size and activity of the church itself.

43:32

So I've always had that in the background. And so you have to be able to, if you're going to say that negatively, being a good

43:40

Scotsman, then you have to also say positively, if it is God's intention to bring about blessing to a people, aren't we the ones always praying for revival?

43:52

Well, what does, what's revival? Revival is not just one person getting saved. It's a whole bunch of people getting saved and walking in the light of that new life in Christ, huh?

44:02

And that's going to impact a nation big time. How do we understand the passages that, that, that the nations, the coastlands will, will seek after his

44:16

Torah, after his law. How does that happen? Does the natural man do that?

44:23

No natural man runs from the, from the law. So if you have nations streaming to Jerusalem and streaming to Mount Zion, what is that about?

44:35

Well, that's in the millennium someday and right before Armageddon or something.

44:42

Okay. That's how you want to deal with it. But what if it's actually

44:47

God saying, I'm going to do a massive work in this world.

44:53

That's different. So I agree that, that speaks to the atonement, the outpouring of atonement is to Christianize nations.

45:03

But what I would say is that there are universal, all of creation impacts related to the atonement.

45:18

Um, so it's, it's not just the individual, you know, all the atonement is about is me and Jesus.

45:28

No, there's, there's much bigger things. The atonement, the father, son, and spirit are glorified in the atoning work of Christ.

45:40

It is absolutely central. How many times we talked about this Trinitarian harmony, the gospel and Trinitarian harmony in the atonement, the decree of the father, the accomplishment of the son, the application of the spirit.

45:54

So again, if it would be God's intention to pour out his spirit and to draw his elect and a, and it becomes a majority of a nation, well, wouldn't the atonement be central to that?

46:12

Well, of course it would. So he says, in other words, Lord came to redeem

46:17

Americans, not America. Okay. I agree. I agree. And if it is

46:25

God's sovereign purpose to only redeem a certain number of Americans and then wipe America out, he's just to do that because he's done that down through history, down through church history.

46:36

Look at all the places you can go visit where the Roman empire was once everything.

46:44

And now it's not there. Yeah. So that's true. But what if it's his intention to all of a sudden save a majority of Americans?

46:56

What will that do to America? Nobody wants to talk about that because in reality, it's like, that's not going to happen.

47:04

Nope, not possible. Not possible. God couldn't do it. He says the post slash mill slash theonomy lacks clear biblical foundations at this very point.

47:15

And it's important. Again, we haven't found old Steve to be overly accurate in his understanding of how these things are related to one another.

47:24

I'm not even sure how theonomy relates at this point. I mean, if you have 80 % of the people living in a land upon whose heart

47:35

God has written his law, Jeremiah 31, new covenant, then what are they going to want?

47:43

Are they only going to want Christ's law in their lives, but not in their societies, even though 80 % of the people in their society has the same desire?

47:56

That doesn't make any sense. Again, all coming back to, yeah, but that'll never happen. God can't do that.

48:04

Oh, okay. I suppose there are lots of times back in church history, you could look at how many millions and millions of Christians there are today around the world and go, ah, that would never happen.

48:18

Well, it has. Praise be to God. So, lacks clear biblical foundation at this very point.

48:28

Well, again, what does it mean for, ask of me and I will give you the nations as your inheritance.

48:37

What does that mean? And I hope you recognize, I'm sitting here as a person who consistently, over and over again, says the only way for this to happen is the outpouring of the

48:49

Spirit of God. This isn't sacralism. This isn't forced submission. This isn't what the

48:58

Holy Roman Empire was about, and all that kind of stuff, at all. I'm not talking about the

49:05

Stephen Wolf type of Christian nationalism either, at all. So, you got to identify who you're talking about.

49:16

But these massive claims being made by the PMT crowd, I guess that's Post Mill Theonomy, have zero evidence, now listen to this, in all of human history.

49:27

No nation has ever Christianized, ever. Not the point of the gospel, nor the

49:33

Great Commission, nor of the two Great Commandments. And there you go. There you have the same kind of, well,

49:41

God hasn't done it in the past, so there can't be any great blessing coming in the future. And that's the same attitude that the

49:50

Jews had about the Messiah. That's not how God's done it in the past. It's not how we thought the Messiah would be.

49:56

Well, the Messiah ended up being a lot bigger than you thought, huh? So, I just find this kind of argumentation really, really bad.

50:05

Really, really, really, really bad. But it does allow us, whoops, sorry about that, it does allow us to interact a little bit.

50:19

We have a, I have to look at the, how long we've been on the air. There is, there is a quick,

50:26

I'll just read this to you, and then we're going to do a little quick something out of Romans, Revelation 5. I've got some

50:32

Anthony Burnaby, or Burnaby, depending on how you pronounce it, tweets here.

50:41

Basic syllogism for Trinitarians. Point one, P1, Jesus is

50:48

Yahweh. P2, Yahweh is the Father. Conclusion, Jesus is the Father. You can only argue a premise is incorrect.

50:54

This is logically valid deductive syllogism, a valid deductive argument, which is, again, is why amateur philosophers or professional ones who try to pretend that their little teeny syllogistic arguments are big enough to deal with all divine revelation are fools, and will be told that on the day of judgment.

51:17

So, obviously, there is, there is the obvious category errors.

51:24

Jesus is Yahweh, but Jesus is not exhaustive of Yahweh, because Jesus is a divine person.

51:31

Yahweh is the name of the divine being that is shared by Father, Son, and Spirit, because the

51:37

Fathers identify as Yahweh, the Sons identify as Yahweh, and the Spirits identify as Yahweh. So, if you want to, you go, the conclusion is

51:45

Jesus is the Father, but Jesus isn't the Father. Well, it has to be. No, you just don't believe the

51:51

Bible, and you will not allow the Bible to determine the categories in which you are going to argue and think.

51:57

Dollar is to it. Why do we believe one being, three persons? Because the

52:02

Bible tells us to. The Bible distinguishes between the Father, Son, and the Spirit, and the Bible identifies each one as divine.

52:12

So, this is where syllogisms are too little. They're for, they're for the little minds, and not for those that are enlightened by Scripture.

52:22

That's all there is to it. And then we have one that said, Trinitarians like James White are the same people that would have burned us

52:30

Unitarians alive, or crucified us, or tortured us the past 2 ,000 years, right?

52:36

This is July 16th. I didn't see this one. It just popped up, and BURNED is in caps, and CRUCIFIED is in caps, and TORTURED is in caps.

52:45

And I just, I can't forget the Saban debate in 1999, where once they get challenged, that's all they can do.

52:55

These Trinitarians want to kill us all! Just, just get the emotions going, and let's not, let's not notice that every single time

53:04

I've quoted this guy, I've gone to the text of and destroyed his errors, and he has no responses.

53:11

So, this is the best you can do. BURN! CRUCIFY! TORTURE! Just, again,

53:16

I, I need to find, I need to, I need to get a second straw man.

53:22

I, eBay, eBay must have a straw man that I can order, and I will,

53:28

I'll give him a home. Um, well, you know what? Uh, here. Uh, so, so here, see what

53:36

I did over here. This is, again, this was the old bedroom, and this is, a lot of the

53:42

RVs have, you know, this, there's one over here too, you can't see it, but you know, it, there's stuff stuck in there.

53:49

There's tools, and stuff that we use for the program, and stuff like that. I will, uh, find a, a home.

53:57

In fact, I wonder. I'll bet you I could sit him right there. What do you think?

54:02

And I, I can tape him to the wall, use Velcro, and so, well, let's go to camera two, and there's the straw man!

54:13

This, this little switch is so cool. I bet you I could find a, a special effects button, and have some, when

54:20

I open that up, little flames, flames in there go. Don't put it past us.

54:27

Don't put it past us. We are, we are working on it. We're, nothing you can't do with a, with a computer, right?

54:34

Uh, there you go. So, um, there was one other here.

54:41

Let me just read it real quick, and then we'll go to Revelation 5, and Rich is doing the, hey, we have two hours on Twitter, don't waste it, but I've got to get to dinner, uh, tonight.

54:50

Um, yeah, the switcher has a big brother, more features. Yeah, I know,

54:56

I know. Um, any, any excuse you can come up with, huh? Um, the learning curve has been enough, uh, but yeah, that, that would be sort of fun.

55:07

Anyway, I actually read this one before, um, but I didn't really dive into it.

55:16

He goes, my God is too big to have become a man, get hung on a piece of wood, and killed by his creation.

55:27

I read this one briefly, and I said at the time,

55:35

I can't tell you how many Muslims I've had who said the exact same thing. Oh, that's a genetic fallacy.

55:41

No, I'm just simply saying, uh, I believe it was, um,

55:49

Sir Anthony Buzzard that wrote a book, someone wrote a book, uh, titled, uh,

55:57

Trinitarianism, the Christian Church's Self -Inflicted Wound, and I know

56:03

I've seen Dale Tuggy specifically stating that the Trinity is the, the biggest thing that keeps us from being able to make any headway in evangelizing the

56:12

Muslims, and of course, my statement is evangelizing them to what?

56:20

What is it that you are going to try to lead them to? You, you unfortunately have a tremendous amount of agreement with Islam at this point.

56:30

Now, the reason they reject this because the author of the Quran was ignorant of what's in the New Testament, you don't even, you don't, you

56:36

Unitarians don't even have the excuse that the Muslims have at that point, but my

56:43

God is too big to have become a man, get hung on a piece of wood, and killed by his creation. That is the foolishness of the gospel.

56:53

That's 1 Corinthians chapter 1. The preaching of the cross is them, their perishing foolishness.

57:01

Unitarians are perishing, and there's their words. Now, he goes on to say, you guys are demonic.

57:08

The Bible says God cannot die, but keep being delusional, I guess, is what he says. Well, of course,

57:14

I don't know what you think die means, as in cease to exist, but God is not a man, but God can take on a human nature, and so it's the incarnation.

57:29

That's the, the Muslims, again, the best debate ever have in the

57:35

Muslim, Abdullah Kunda, 2011, New South Wales, Australia, gonna miss doing those down there, but it's the way it is.

57:48

Can God become man? It was on the incarnation, very same issues, very same issues.

57:55

The Unitarians just have much less excuse than the, than the

58:01

Muslims ever have in that, in that issue. Okay, so let me get accordance up here, and let's just do a couple biblical things before we sign off on the program today, and hopefully,

58:14

I do that right, and hit the right buttons, and have the right things playing, and the right screens up, and we have made reference to Roman, of Romans, Revelation chapter 5 a number of times.

58:32

When I was looking at Revelation chapter 6, remember, we were looking at the Jude passage. Revelation 4 and 5 was the context of the opening of these seals, and now, the wrath of the

58:45

Lamb, he who sits upon the throne, wrath of the Lamb, central aspect to what

58:53

John is revealing to us in the text, and the beauty, this is one of those places where, again, when people ask me, after 40 years of teaching and defending the scriptures, what keeps you believing?

59:23

Well, theologically, the Spirit of God. The faith that one has is something that is part of you by the work of the

59:35

Spirit of God, but what has

59:41

God used as part of what would keep you a believing man?

59:50

And obviously, it's a love for his word, and it is the beauty of the consistency of the word, not on a surface level, but on a deep thematic level, and the illustration

01:00:10

I've used, I don't know when I started, but I'm sure I'll find out soon, the illustration

01:00:16

I've used is of a tapestry, and the weaving of colored threads through a tapestry to create a beautiful graphic, a beautiful scene, a beautiful image, and you have threads and themes in Genesis that are found just briefly in some of the historical books, and then they come out in poetry, in the

01:00:54

Psalter, and then they're woven through the prophets, and then you find them coming to fulfillment in Christ's life, in the

01:01:02

Gospels, and then they're become a part of the Gospel message, and the application, and the epistles, and then they're brought to fruition in Revelation.

01:01:10

It is impossible for man to have done these things. It's supernatural, and so when you look at Revelation 4 and 5, you've had the risen

01:01:26

Lord speaking sovereignly to his churches, and then everything changes, and you have the heavenly vision, and you are plainly supposed to see

01:01:42

Revelation chapter 4 as the continuation of Isaiah chapter 6, the worship of Yahweh in heaven, but then you have to deal with the historical reality of the incarnation, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and his enthronement in heaven, and so Revelation chapter 4 isn't enough.

01:02:10

Revelation chapter 5 has to be there because now you have the purposes of God are going to be revealed in this book, but who's worthy to open these things?

01:02:28

Well, it's the Lamb, tribe of Judah who has overcome, and there's the

01:02:37

Lamb standing as if slain, and so John cries, and the elder says, stop crying.

01:02:50

There we go. I was crying greatly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll to look into it, and one of the elders said to me, stop crying.

01:03:02

Behold, the lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has overcome, so as to open the scroll and its seven seals, and then

01:03:09

I saw in the midst of the throne, and the four living creatures, and the midst of the elders, a lamb standing as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth, and hopefully, you know, again, hopefully we don't have to have too much of a discussion of apocalyptic language and things like that, but these are

01:03:31

Trinitarian. When you're talking about the seven spirits of God, that just simply means the full, the fullness of the

01:03:36

Spirit of God, possessed by this one, who told us in John 14 through 16, once I go to the

01:03:43

Father, the Father and I will send the Spirit to you. So, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth,

01:03:52

Spirit of God taking, making application of what the Lamb has accomplished in all the earth.

01:03:58

It's a fulfillment of the gospel. It is in all the earth. Sorry, Steve, but it's there.

01:04:05

And he came and took the scroll out of the right hand of him who sits on the throne. Can you imagine any of the elders, or any of the creatures, approaching he who sits upon the throne in this way?

01:04:21

This is a divine person. This is, approaches the one on the throne. Oh, Daniel 7, presented before the

01:04:28

Ancient of Days. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the

01:04:36

Lamb, each one having a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

01:04:43

Now, again, we could preach a whole sermon here and I'm out of time. But these are the greatest creatures

01:04:51

God has ever made. And they bowed down before the

01:04:57

Lamb. And they have a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are what?

01:05:03

The prayers of the saints. To whom do the prayers go? They don't go to saints. They are the prayers of the saints.

01:05:13

And who are the prayers of the saints directed to? God. God. So here's the prayers of the saints.

01:05:23

And they're bowing down before the Lamb, standing as a slain.

01:05:30

And they sang a new song saying, worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals.

01:05:36

Because you were slain and purchased for God with your blood people from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

01:05:45

And you made them to be a kingdom and priest to our God and they will reign upon the earth.

01:05:51

Now, here is the accomplishment and power of the

01:05:57

Lamb because of the atonement. And there is an exact application to the nations.

01:06:05

Because you were slain and purchased for God with your blood people from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

01:06:15

And our mindset, and it was my mindset for a long time, is always just so much, teeny tiny part, just a little bit.

01:06:24

But it's from everybody, but just a little bit. And so, and then it's like, and that means it can't ever change.

01:06:31

It's always just got to be, you know, we always lose down here. But you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our

01:06:40

God and they will reign upon the earth. Sounds like some really good stuff coming.

01:06:46

Yeah. After the, after the tribulation. Then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders.

01:06:58

And the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands. So here's, they're going to, verse 13 is going to say every created thing.

01:07:09

Here's all of heaven. All of heaven, all of the greatest creatures of God saying with a loud voice, worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.

01:07:28

Go back to Revelation chapter four, same stuff that is used in the worship of God. Same stuff.

01:07:35

And I again, think of Daniel seven, he's given a kingdom, dominion, so that his servants will what?

01:07:43

Latruo him, highest form of worship, highest form of worship in the temple.

01:07:49

Here it is. And every created thing, which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them with the exception of the lamb.

01:08:00

That's what it says. Every created thing I heard saying to him who sits on the throne and to the lamb be the blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever.

01:08:15

This is worship of two divine persons. This is not a violation of monotheism because of the doctrine of the

01:08:25

Trinity. If you are a Unitarian, it is a violation of monotheism because you have to sit there and I know what you're doing in your mind.

01:08:33

You're automatically making the worship of the lamb lesser as a representative.

01:08:41

I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing to him who sits on the throne and to the lamb, be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.

01:08:52

If that's not divine worship, there's no such thing. And the four living creatures kept saying over and over, amen, amen.

01:09:04

And the elders fell down and worshiped. And before you go, yeah, well, they fall down and it's just prostuneo.

01:09:17

Prostuneo before the throne of God is absolute religious worship is only due to God.

01:09:25

When John in chapter 19 bows down and gives prostuneo the angel, he says, don't do that.

01:09:31

Prostuneo only God. But the lamb receives prostuneo in the context of religious worship.

01:09:39

You can't escape it. You can't escape it. It's right there.

01:09:47

What did the author intend to communicate by this? It's clear and it's beautiful.

01:09:55

And that worship, I'm going to tell you something, no matter what your eschatology is, no matter what your eschatology is, the fact that that worship is taking place in heaven right now is so important.

01:10:15

It's so important. And for me, as I see things that it looks to me like things are just spinning out of control down here, the ungodly are ruling the roost.

01:10:32

But I know that the lamb is being worshiped in heaven.

01:10:40

And what revelation tells me is God is very concerned about what happens on earth, because that is the realm in which father, son, and spirit will be glorified.

01:10:53

So God's not done. And so I can sleep. My mind has to find that solace in divine truth.

01:11:08

And again, I just don't know what people of the world do that have nothing.

01:11:20

Yeah, well, you know what? I'm not even gonna bother to try to turn it off. AC finally kicked on.

01:11:26

I had forgotten to turn it off before the program started and we're wrapping up anyways. So what does it matter?

01:11:33

It doesn't matter at all. So I appreciate your putting up with our flubs and boops and bounces.

01:11:41

And I'm looking over here and I see all sorts of error messages.

01:11:48

It looks like it's trying to download something and not looking good.

01:11:53

Because I'm going to tell you something, unless Rich can fix that Windows machine remotely, I ain't touching it.

01:12:01

Nope, nope, nope, nope. I am not. That was long, long ago for me and we're not going there.

01:12:11

So anyway, let's get this thing over with, shall we?

01:12:17

Thanks for watching the program today. Um, we will be back next week while I'm on the road on the way home.