Matt Slick Live: July 12, 2024

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live!

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome to the show.

It's me, Matt Slick, interlist of Matt Slick Live.

I hope you're all going to have a good time listening, if you choose to continue to listen to a guy named Slick.

But if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you need to

do is dial 877 -207 -2276, and we can talk.

And if you want, you can give me an email.

Well, that's easy to do.

Just send it to infoatkarm .org,

and put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and we can get to it.

And I think that's about it.

So, let's see, let's see, let's see.

Let me get that going right there, and if you want, nobody waiting.

All right, well, we do have...

Oh, that's right, today's Friday.

Man, wow, I forgot today's Friday.

Yeah, when you're working like I do.

What day is it?

Sometimes I go to my wife, what day is it?

Tuesday.

It is?

Really?

She rubs her forehead a lot around me.

I think it's good for her, though.

All right, so what I do on Friday sometimes is answer emails, try and get to some of those issues that

people have raised, and comments and questions.

A lot of them are pretty good.

A lot of them are pretty good.

So, I think what I'm going to do here is...

Let's see, let's see, let's see, right there we go.

All right, we've got a caller coming in, but let me see if I can get to an email really fast.

All right, answered that one already.

Hi, Matt, this is that cultic group like Witness Lee's

Church Movement seems to get away with making bogus claims about other ministries.

Anybody even remotely familiar with their teachings?

TA Sparks understands.

I don't know.

There's just too much to work on, so I can't get into that.

Steve Nelson from Boise, hey, welcome.

Yeah, I'm just buried.

So, even during our meeting today, we have a staff meeting on

Fridays.

Even during our staff meeting, towards the end of it, I was working with our web guy

trying to develop something else that we're talking about, trying to get some other things going on.

Just a lot of work.

I mean, just a lot of work I've got to do.

So, working with two things at once.

All right, whoa, now that's a big email.

Man, look at that.

Jesus was not the last man, Adam, at all.

Last man, Adam, at all.

Okay, when people come in with a statement that directly contradicts Scripture and then they write 8 ,000

words, I just do this to it, like delete.

Because, I'm not going to get into it with them because they're not able to focus.

Hi, Mr. Slick, hope and pray all is well with you.

I know you debate a lot of atheist folks.

Yes, I do.

Have you ever talked with Ronald Reagan, Jr.?

I saw on a commercial once, and the only thing that stuck was his comment that he didn't mind burning in hell.

Well, I'd like to talk to him.

I would definitely debate him.

But to say that you wouldn't mind burning in hell is simply foolishness.

People who say that are just taunting, faint, taunting things.

You know, I wouldn't mind if I was suffering forever.

Really?

Is that what you really think?

You know, it's just stupid.

These are kind of statements that are just dumb.

I mean, it's like saying, hey, would you like it?

Would it be okay with you if you just suffered eternally in agony?

Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Really?

Well, you are, okay.

Well, just back away slowly because people like that shouldn't be driving cars.

All right, let's just jump on the phones.

Phillip from Arizona.

Phillip, welcome.

You're on the air.

Matt, have you guys taken a vacation recently, you and your wife?

Is this the Phil I know from Arizona?

Yeah, it's your Phillip.

Hey, man, how are you doing, buddy?

I'm good, how are you?

I know how busy you are.

You're not going to stop for a vacation, and I think it would do you guys good.

Yeah, well, first of all, I've been thinking about you.

I was almost thinking about calling you yesterday but got busy.

I first have to define what that term vacation means.

I've heard a concept.

Plus, because of my wife's health, we actually talked about, for example, going to do something

together, taking a flight, but it's always a big production for her, and I'm not complaining.

It's just her health, and she has to help on the plane, and she has to take pain meds in order

to get there.

And is it fun for her?

It can be just really painful.

So we stay here, and so if I'm going to stay here, what do I do?

I've got to work.

I don't know if you know a place in Arizona we can go to and relax at.

That would be nice.

Yeah, I think you know that I know.

I think so, that's right.

I remember Anik was in the car and broke a

rib and ended up on the couch, and there's nobody with a pain tolerance

like your wife, honestly.

She's married to me, so she had good practice.

That's what I'm saying.

That's my main point in saying that.

Matt, it's been a long time since you were around my boys, but I do have

an 18 -year -old who, in my opinion, is becoming a legitimate theologian, and you have a lot to

do with that for sure, but he has not worked up the courage, unfortunately, to

call you on your show himself yet.

We're getting there.

But he asked me to call you because he doesn't ever miss a podcast, and he just loves

it, as you know I do.

He keeps asking me this question, and I'm going to go right to you with it.

He's interested, basically, Matt, in your opinion, if you could lay out

your remarkably informed opinion, in my opinion, of the order of major events that need,

must take place, eventually culminating in the return of Jesus.

I know that's a big question.

Well, yeah, but...

You know how they have those warning labels?

I'm going to give a warning label to what I teach on this stuff, because I teach what's called Deprescatology.

Deprescatology, the study of end times, is depressing.

I believe that things are going to get really bad, and I believe this is my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong, and I don't want it to be true, but when God said to Adam

in Genesis 2 .17, the day that you eat this fruit, you will die, I suspect that he was

speaking not only to Adam, but also to all of mankind, because it says in 1 Corinthians 15 .22, in Adam,

all die.

So, Jesus said in, this is my preamble, and I'll give you more

specific answers, but in Matthew 24 .22, he says, unless those days be cut short,

no life would be saved.

And that literally is the word sarx, which is flesh, but it means life,

and so it would be saved.

Now, so what I conclude, is that things are going to get so bad,

that we as a people are going to destroy ourselves, unless Jesus

intervenes.

I believe that the wages of sin is death, mankind is turning its back on God, and the natural

result is death, and that mankind will kill itself, with nukes, or

plagues, or whatever it's going to be, and at the end, Jesus is going to stop it, at the end.

Now, that's my overall position.

In the meantime, up to that point, the Bible says that there has to be a rival of false Christs and false

prophets, those are already here, and there's war that's coming.

Well, there has to be an increase in the persecution of the faithful, so I know that this is occurring in

different countries, and it's on the increase, and it's occurring here in the United States, on a much lesser level,

but it is on the rise, and Islam is playing a large part of that.

Islam is invading Europe, and mathematically speaking,

England is already lost to Islam, I think they said 50 to 70 years, it will become an Islamic country,

and France is on the same path,

maybe 50 to 100 years.

We have relatives in France, and they talk to us about things that are so bad there, Muslim areas, you can't go in

there, you'd be killed.

So, Islam is an evil, pagan, filthy religion, it's a pagan, bad religion.

So, the persecution of the Christians has to increase, and it is increasing, but it's going to get really bad.

There also must be an apostasy, and this is spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostasy must come

first.

Well, the Roman Catholic Church is already apostate, and the Eastern Orthodox Church is apostate.

We have the rise of false prophets like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, but we're also going to

experience, in Christendom overall, the falling

away from the truth.

This is happening within Protestantism.

We have the stupidity of the positive confession movement, God wants you healthy

and wealthy, and all this stupidity, and the rise of humanism inside of the Christian

thought process.

Humanism is man -centeredness, and so, in Christian

theology, in a lot of pulpits, Jesus is the blonde -haired, blue -eyed, Caucasian surfer dude, dressed in

a woman's nightgown, standing at the door of your heart, asking permission for you to let him in.

This is humanist philosophy, that the sovereignty of man is either above or equal to the sovereignty of God, and

he will not violate our free will.

So, it becomes our wisdom and our ability to make the sacrifice of Christ effective.

Even though Christ accomplished what he did on the cross, it becomes effective when we do something, when

we apply it to ourselves.

And this is the rise of self -idolatry, and the increase of

hubris within the Protestant movement that is masked in following Christian theology.

So, there's that, and this has to occur even more.

It's not yet done.

There's still more to go.

And then, of course, there's other things, like lawlessness is on the increase, we know that.

Increase of selfishness, love of money.

The mocking of Christ.

2 Peter 3 talks about that.

But there's an interesting prophecy in the book of Daniel, chapter 12, verse 4.

He says, Conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time.

Many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.

So, some interpret that to mean that there's going to be a lot of travel, and we have an

incredible amount of knowledge available to us on the internet.

And some people think it's fulfilled now.

There's also going to be the rise of spiritism, which is on the increase, and it's varying forms of new

age, and it's creeping into the Christian church, where deification and

glorification of man is becoming central.

There'll be the decay of marriage, which is on the rise, and with the rise of transgender crap, and

the LGBT mob.

And I've been saying for, I don't know, 20 years on radio, that the sexual movement, homosexual

movement, is going to be the means by which the Christians will be oppressed.

And those are the kinds of things that need to be in place.

They're almost fully there.

But there's other things too.

I'm almost done here, sorry.

The sun and moon have to be darkened.

And there has to be nations, all the nations have to be gathered against Israel.

There's got to be the rebuilding of the temple, and the arrival of Antichrist.

We have to receive the mark of the beast, and then he will come back.

So you see, there's a lot more to go.

So it's not quite time.

Okay?

Right, and then as far as the temple is concerned, I mean, it seems like all eyes are on Jerusalem

right now.

I did not know how to answer this question.

Does the temple need to be built on the dome of the rock?

Do we need to conquer the Muslims, or can it be built anywhere in Jerusalem?

Well, we've got a break.

So let me answer that question when we get back.

All right?

Hey folks, hold on.

We'll be right back with Phil from Arizona, and we'll talk about the dome of the rock, and stuff like that.

Be right back, please.

Stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live!

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

All right, buddy, welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on with Phil from Arizona.

All right, Phil, you still there?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Now, I've been to Jerusalem a couple of times, a couple of tours.

The area of the dome of the rock, there's a space, area,

big enough for a soccer field.

There's a lot of space around it.

And in order to get to that space, you have to walk through another space that's big enough for a soccer field

or two.

Both of them are.

And you have to walk up a set of steps, and you go through a little arch, and there's the dome of the rock.

And you have to walk 100 feet, 200 feet to get to it.

So there's plenty of room around it to put a temple.

Now, is that going to happen?

We'll see.

There is...

I'm not an archaeologist.

I don't know the areas there archaeologically in those two flat areas.

But just out of my ignorance, I'm speaking, if they wanted to build the

temple on the lower section, there's plenty of room to do it.

Plenty.

And then you'd walk, I don't know, 400 feet to get to the dome of the rock.

There's a lot of room there, surprisingly.

So it's physically possible.

Interesting.

Well, that is helpful.

I don't want to take...

I want to let other callers come in.

So the last question I have for you, and again, I just didn't know where to go here.

I think we know what ends the Tribulation.

What, in your opinion, would be the event that starts the clock on the Tribulation?

Well, it can't be the pre -Tribulation rapture.

That's just not possible.

The reason is because it's supposed to be exactly seven years when the rapture occurs to the return of Christ,

and no one knows the day of the return of Christ.

So if the rapture occurs, all they do is calculate seven years in advance and they got it.

So that doesn't work.

So the beginning of the Tribulation, I don't know if there's any particular mark, but it seems to be concomitant

with the issue of this person who's the Antichrist who makes a pact with Israel

and others in order to have peace.

That seems to be the beginning of it.

This is not in place.

Now, I'm 67.

Personally, I don't believe I will be alive at the return of Christ.

I believe I'm going to pass away before then.

So, you know, I think it's going to happen in 30, 40, 50 years, 60, 70 years, you know, that range, maybe more.

Okay?

Yeah, that's good.

Well, I really appreciate it, Matt.

Thank you so much.

I'm going to keep working on, because I think when he calls in, you'll see for yourself.

But thank you so much.

I really appreciate you, Matt.

And I just wish, you know, more people would donate to the cause on a

regular basis so that you know what's coming in, because there's so many markets out there.

And yes, they have, there's other Bible answer guys out there, and I truly believe most of them

mean well.

But they're just not anywhere, they're just not, and I got to be careful in saying this, because, you know, your head and everything like that, but

they're just not as informed.

A lot of these guys haven't dedicated their entire lives to what you're doing.

And I just, I wish you were in every market, you know, and maybe one day that'll happen.

But thank you for answering my question, my son's question, and I love you, man, and

always praying for you.

Well, good, brother.

Appreciate it.

And let's talk, you know, I'll text you today or tomorrow or something like that.

Let's just catch up because of stuff.

All right?

Sounds good.

Give our love to your beautiful wife and daughters.

Okay, will do, brother.

God bless, man.

Thanks, man.

Bye -bye.

Okay.

All right.

That's Phil.

Phil's a great guy.

He helped our daughter out when she was down there in the Arizona area.

And then when my wife and I were thinking about moving to Arizona, when we tried to sell the house in order to move for her health down

there, and the Lord closed the door, we never ended up moving.

We tried three times.

But Phil was going to be the guy who's going to back us up, and he was going to provide a place for us to stay while we got our feet down

there.

He's a great guy.

Loves the Lord.

Good, good guy.

All right.

Let's get to Luke from Washington, D .C.

Luke, welcome.

You're on the air.

Hi, Matt.

How are you?

Can you hear me?

All right.

Yes, I can.

Yes, I can.

So what do you got?

Can you please explain to me Acts 2 .38?

Sure.

Peter said, Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,

and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So some people think that

this proves that baptism is necessary for salvation, and it's not.

Now, I've written a great deal on Acts 2 .38.

The verse is not a formula for salvation first because it doesn't have the word faith in it.

People say, well, it's implied.

No, if it's a formula, then it has to have everything necessary, but it doesn't.

Now, furthermore, what is it that is the gift of the Holy Spirit?

The gift of the Holy Spirit certainly appears to be the movement of the charismatic gifts.

That's the context of Acts 2.

Furthermore, when you go to Acts 10 .44 and starting, while Peter

was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message,

and all the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the

Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and

exalting God.

Peter then answered, Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit

just as we did, can he?

So he became baptized.

So it seems to be the context of both Acts 2 and Acts 10

that the gift of the Holy Spirit is the charismatic movement, not salvation.

Now, this is not a common position, but when I read that, that's what I see.

That's what it seems to be.

So, furthermore, people will say, well, it says, baptized in the name of Jesus for the

forgiveness of sins.

And the phrase for the forgiveness of sins is

What they say that means is that for the forgiveness of sins is obtaining the forgiveness of sins.

Well, if that's the case, then there's a problem.

In Mark 1 .4, John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for

the forgiveness of sins.

So I ask people, if the phrase for the forgiveness of sins means that this

baptism in Acts 2 means that's how they got forgiveness of sins, then in

Mark 1 .4, when they were baptized in the baptism of John, John the Baptist, did they also

have the forgiveness of sins?

Because this is exact same phrase in the Greek.

Exact same phrase.

So if that's the case, they have to say, well, yes, they got forgiveness of sins.

Well, then I'm going to ask them questions.

If John's baptism was forgiveness of sins, it was not a Trinitarian baptism, was

it?

Not like the true baptism, is it?

So what about that?

Another question is, if John the Baptist's baptism got him forgiveness, did they

have to get baptized again under the baptism of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Because if they did, then that means the first baptism wasn't good enough.

But if the first baptism is not good enough, it means their sins weren't forgiven.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have to get baptized again, if baptism is necessary for salvation.

It doesn't make sense.

If they say no, they do have to get baptized, and they're saying that's the problem.

If they say no, they didn't have to, then the phrase baptized for the forgiveness of

sins didn't get them forgiveness of sins, it didn't mean that.

And there's other problems, too.

We've got a break, so I'll get back to some more of those after the break.

So hold on, buddy.

Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned.

We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

Bottom of the hour, if you want to call me, 877 -207 -2276.

Let's get back to Luke.

Are you still there?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

All right, so in addition, I was going to say, there's another problem with

that view that that verse means baptism is necessary.

Here's a question.

If John the Baptist's baptism was true, because remember, the phrase for the forgiveness of sins

of Acts 238, which they say baptism gets you the forgiveness of sin.

That's what it means.

That's what they say.

Then in Mark 1 5, when it says that John the Baptist baptized for the forgiveness

of sins, it must mean the same thing.

Mark 1 4, excuse me.

So if that's the case, then John the Baptist's baptism got the forgiveness of sins.

If they say it didn't, then the phrase doesn't mean to obtain the forgiveness of sins.

Then they refute their view on Acts 2 38.

If they say, yes, it does mean that, then they have a problem because then I have a question.

I say, look, if John the Baptist's baptism for the forgiveness of sins

Mark 1 4, I think it's Mark 1 4, I want to make sure.

Yeah, Mark 1 4.

If it got them forgiveness of sins, then did they need to continue to offer sacrifices in the

temple because the sacrifice of Christ had not yet been offered?

So the new covenant was not in effect.

So if the new covenant is not in effect, then did they still have to offer sacrifices in the temple if all

their sins are forgiven?

That's a very difficult question.

So there's more, but you see, there's lots of reasons why Acts 2 38 is not a

formula for salvation, and I believe it is a promise of getting the charismata.

That's what I believe it means.

Okay, you there?

Yes, thank you.

Okay, there you go.

All right.

All right.

Well, God bless.

Let's get to Buskman from Dayton, Ohio.

Buskman, welcome.

You're on the air.

Thank you.

Hey, Matt, I was approached the other night.

My friend and I was having a Bible study in a park, actually, and the sweetest

LDS girls showed up, and I'll tell you that.

So they tried to share with me Joseph Smith's teaching.

I did as best as I could to channel my Matt Slick,

and thank you, brother.

My girl was so excited about it.

Thank you for information, but I'm in the bus mobile right now, and I'm wondering,

can I get an elevator speech, Matt, to kind of, you know,

jettison the hearts of these LDS folks that approach to at least make

them think, maybe not convert them, Matt, but at least make them think.

So what would be like a list of two or three or five or however many things you want to give me, brother,

to start thinking that they're on the wrong path.

Thanks, Matt.

Sure.

One of the things that I do, I just go straight to.

When I want to get straight to the point, I really want to mess them up quickly.

Let's just say this because I don't have time.

They don't have time.

What are those situations?

I did this once at Walmart.

I could tell a bunch of Mormons were talking, young men and women.

I could tell they're Mormons, and I said, Hey, are you guys Mormons?

And they looked at me like, surprised, yes.

And we had this conversation.

I said, are you converted to Mormonism or born in it?

Oh, we're all born in it and raised in it.

I said, look, can I ask you a question?

They said, yeah, sure.

I said, do you really believe Joseph Smith saw God the Father?

They said, of course he did.

I said, everything's based on that, right?

They said, yeah, that's the first vision.

If he didn't see God the Father, then nothing.

Because he claimed he saw God the Father.

It's one of the essential things of the restoration that Mormonism claims occurred because

Joseph Smith was called at the age of 14 to be a true prophet in the Book of Mormon plates, and God the Father and

Jesus appeared to him and commissioned him.

This is critical.

And I said, well, then I do this.

I say, 1 Timothy 6 .16 is really important.

1 Timothy 6 .16.

I said, you should read 1 Timothy 6 .16.

I start saying it over and over to them.

I said, because what it says there is that, speaking in the context of the Father, I said, 1

Timothy 6 .16 says that he alone possesses immortality and dwells in an unapproachable light to whom

no man has seen or can see.

I said, so did Joseph Smith see the Father?

And they'll say, well, yes.

But Paul the Apostle said no man can see him.

Did Joseph Smith see the Father?

Well, yeah, we bear testimony he did.

But the Bible says in 1 Timothy 6 .16, no man can see the Father.

No one has seen the Father.

Sometimes they'll say, well, they saw God in the Old Testament.

Now me, I'll say, yeah, in Genesis chapter 3 and Exodus 6, 2 and 3,

Numbers 12, 6 through 8, Exodus 24, 9 through 11, they saw God.

I understand that.

But, you have to understand that in John 6 .46, Jesus is aware of all that in the Old

Testament.

And Jesus says, not that anyone has seen the Father, except the one from God.

He's talking about himself.

He's seen the Father.

So, they were seeing God, but not God the Father.

And 1 Timothy 6 .16 says that God the Father can't be seen.

So did Joseph Smith see the Father?

This is how I go back and forth with them.

And, it's, you see, and I tell, I've told many Mormons, if you believe 1 Timothy 6 .16,

you can't believe Mormonism's true.

And I told them, it comes down to this.

Wow.

I've done this many times, and I've had Mormons just flat out tell me, I choose to believe Joseph Smith over what the Word of God

says.

I said, okay.

But that will echo on the Day of Judgment when you're cast into eternal fire.

Because you have denied the truth of God's Word.

You've said that God cannot keep His Word pure and secure.

As the Book of Mormon is supposed to be the restoration truth.

And the eighth article of the Mormon church says the Bible is correct insofar as correctly translated.

They always cast doubt on the Word of God, just like Satan did to Eve.

Did God really say?

As soon as you can doubt God's Word, then you'll believe that a prophet like Joseph

Smith, who was involved in the occult, who did money digging, who was in contact with demonic forces.

And that's well documented.

He did this called necromancy.

And that he said that God is an exalted man from another world.

He has a body of flesh and bones.

And you can become a god of your own planet.

He has a goddess wife.

I mean, really?

Where's that in Scripture?

It's not there in the Bible.

But they believed Joseph Smith.

And here's the thing about Mormonism.

James 1 .5 says, If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God.

And so the Mormon missionaries rip that out of context.

And say, pray about the Book of Mormon to see if it's true.

Get wisdom.

That's not what the text is talking about.

It's talking about those who are already believers in the true and living God.

If you need wisdom, ask God.

He'll give it to you.

They are not true believers in the true and living God.

What they're saying is, ask wisdom about a book written by a guy who claimed he saw God the Father when the

Bible says he can't.

And that he put a stone in a hat and then translated, so to speak, supposedly,

the Book of Mormon one letter at a time.

And Oliver Cowdery is the one who recorded it.

And yet, it's been changed thousands and thousands of times since then in English.

And so, I say this to the Mormon.

You know, I've been doing this for decades with Mormonism.

I know it well.

And I just try and show them.

Now, there's another technique you can use.

There's another technique which is quick and slick.

Which has destroyed the testimony of many Mormons.

Mormon missionaries.

And, what that is, is a little more difficult to obtain

because, you'll need to get a copy of the 3 ,913 changes in the Book of Mormon.

3 ,913.

Now, that was being produced.

Yes.

That's a low estimate.

But, it was produced by Gerald and Sandra Tanner in Utah.

And I know Sandra.

And, she told me that she and her husband went through with an original Book of Mormon.

Original.

First edition.

And they compared it to the 1960 version, whatever it was they had at the time.

And they marked out, they photocopied each page and marked out all the changes.

And she said, that was even all of them, she said.

Absolutely amazing.

And, what you do is, you take a Greek New Testament with a Nestle -Allen Greek New Testament.

You don't have to read Greek, but it has a textual apparatus which has textual variants.

Of the New Testament.

And I say this, I say, let's fan through the 3 ,913 changes in the Book of Mormon.

Say stop, stop.

10 changes.

Do the same thing in the New Testament.

It might be three.

You do this over and over and over.

And you say to them, page after page after page, the Book of Mormon has got so many changes and alterations in it.

It's only 200 years old and the New Testament is 2 ,000 years old.

Why is it that you can't trust the New Testament when the Book of Mormon has been changed and

altered a whole bunch more?

Right.

Where can anyone get a copy of that book?

Well, it's out of print now from what I understand.

But if you can ever find one, just get it.

But I think that they're going to try and reproduce it with Bill McKeever's ministry,

Mormonism Research Ministry.

I was just talking to Bill about that last week, or a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago.

That would be awesome.

Please keep us aware of that, Matt.

That would be great.

God bless.

Thank you, Matt.

Okay, buddy.

There's a break.

Okay.

God bless.

We'll talk to you later.

Hey, folks.

Be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live!

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Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone.

Welcome back to the show.

Wow.

Chuck's been waiting for 36 minutes from North Carolina.

Sorry for the long wait, but hey, you're on.

Good evening.

First, I have to say that I was born into the Roman Catholic cult.

I didn't agree with a lot of things, but I didn't do anything about it until I was about 29 and started

reading the Bible on my own, which they told me I wasn't able to do or capable of understanding.

And now, for the last 53 years, I've been trying to debunk their teachings to anyone who will listen.

I've been trying but I find myself a little bit stuck on the wording of Matthew 16, 18.

18 or 19?

I think it's 18, about the keys.

Oh, that's 19.

All right.

So I'm blind and I have to rely on Alexa now for the Bible.

Hey, no problem.

Yeah, because 18 does says Peter, this is rock 19.

You have the keys.

All right.

So what's happening there?

Let's see.

Get over here.

Yeah, So this is this is something the Catholics will use.

In order to bolster the idea that their priesthood has the authority because their priesthood

is privy to the keys which symbolizes the authority that was given to

Peter and therefore to everybody else in their priesthood.

That's their position.

So what Jesus says is I will give you and the you in Greek is singular.

That means just the individual of Peter.

He will give you the keys of the kingdom.

Whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven.

Now, there's a couple of issues here.

What is meant by the kingdom of heaven?

And we could discuss that, but I don't think it's really relevant right now.

But it does say shall have been bound.

Now, this is important because what it means.

Well, let's get it this way.

It's what's called the future perfect passive.

What that means is this future is future tense.

It will happen.

Perfect is what that means is this.

Perfect is a past action that was occurring in the past that's still

occurring now.

And pluperfect, a past action that was occurring in the past that was completed in the

past.

So here's an example of the perfect tense.

I have walked.

I have walked.

And pluperfect would be I had walked to say I have

walked means it's it was in the past but it didn't end in the past.

Pluperfect I had walked means it was in the past and was completed in the past

so this is important in Greek we learn this stuff when we do Greek when you start first start learning all this stuff

so future perfect passive so the

passive here is deals with receiving the action so it was shall have been

bound so how they translate it is it shall have been done.

So what's the what's the how do we interpret this.

Let's say that Peter he binds and loosed in heaven.

Problem with that because Peter was an apostle and certain authority was given to apostles to do

various things so that doesn't bother me but I have questions with it.

Does it then mean that it was passed down to the Catholic priesthood.

Nothing in Scripture says that's the case.

Now what they're gonna do is go to a laying on of hands but this mean any apostolic authority is transferred

down so that they can bind and loose.

Furthermore I have an article on karm does the Catholic Church have the same authority as Jesus.

And no they don't and I go and show why they don't according to Scripture.

But that's another topic.

And there's another question I ask if Peter does the binding and loosing does it mean that

God himself is obligated to bind and loose what Peter did.

This is a question that's necessary to ask the Catholic because what they want to say

is that the the office of Peter the papacy has that authority to bind

and loose.

If that's the case then whatever the papacy binds and loosed is God

obligated to follow suit.

I recently asked this question of a Catholic a variation of it to a Catholic and he

couldn't answer it because he knew that if he did he'd be stuck either way.

If he says no it doesn't mean that then what sense is he binding and loosening.

If it does mean yes well then why was God obligated.

So basically the best way to understand it is to say that what is bound and loose has already been

accomplished that what Peter was doing and what the Apostles were doing.

Also because in John 20 23 we have another verse I know I'm going a lot.

There's all interconnected.

So in John 20 23 there's something similar if you forgive the sins of any their sins

have been forgiven.

If you retain the sins of any they have been retained.

And this is similar in that it's the perfect tense they have been it has been done.

Which means it's like saying this if you do this it's already has been done.

That's what's going on.

It's not saying that they are the ones who are officiating and accomplishing and actually doing it

by their power.

But then the Catholics will come back and say well it's not their power it's the power and the authority of Jesus that they're acting in.

If that's the case make a comment.

Sure one sentence.

If that's the case then all Christians have that ability because we're in Christ we have the authority to be called the children of God to do

to us.

And we can do that too.

But anyway go ahead.

When you said shall have been that clicked something in my mind.

It sounds to me as though Jesus is telling Peter that he will be

given the wisdom to loose and bind

in accordance with heaven's wishes.

That's the way I would read that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't believe in the papacy period because Peter himself and acts and again into his

letters talks about the rock.

He talks about this the stumbling stone the cornerstone that's rejected.

So I think it was clear that Peter understood when Jesus said you are a rock and upon this rock.

He's not telling Peter that he's basing the church on Peter.

He's not making him hope.

He's telling him based on what Peter said.

It made him have that conversation very good.

So you are the Christ the son of the Living God.

It's.

Correct.

That's very good.

And one of the things I've been studying for three years you know.

And one of the things there.

Hold on one sec.

Yes I'm on the radio.

Just came in and I'm on the radio.

I've only been doing radio here for 20

years.

It's

pretty good face.

I'm gonna bugger about it later so.

Okay.

So aside from that distraction I'm getting total kick

out of that.

Okay what was your.

Question again now I was making a statement I don't believe in the papacy.

I don't believe Jesus intended to establish Peter as Pope.

I think that Peter understood that because of what he said and lacks and again and his letters he talks about Jesus

as being the cornerstone that was rejected.

So it's clear to me that the rock that Jesus was talking about was not Peter but a statement that

Peter made that thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God.

That's a very upon which he built his church.

Absolutely it's a very valid.

Interpretation it is because it's contextually it's basically necessary but what is

also there is that the word Petras which is what Peter is is

masculine and Petra which is what the other thing rock is feminine

and the reason that's significant is because Petras means a small rock like something

you can pick up and move but Petra means right you can't pick up and move and Jesus is

called the Petra in yeah in first Corinthians 10 for he's

specifically referred to as the Petra and Peter refers to him as the Petra also in first

Peter 2 8.

So yes and on the confession of who Christ is the

truth that Christ is the rock says Peter you're the rock with this rock.

It's a pun and a play on words that Jesus is doing with what's going on.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Okay that settles it for me.

I've been at it this for 53 years now and I'm starting to get a handle on.

Well you know what I tell you what you can do.

I'll tell you what seriously if you'd like what I'd like you to do Chuck is email me

at info at karn .org just email me at info saying Chuck this is Chuck from okay whatever

and I will attach my notes on Catholicism

which are 228 pages.

It's an outline form.

Okay.

But I'm blind.

I'm blind so I can't

read.

Do you have a reader though.

You have a reader.

No no I.

It's too hard to manage.

They offered me one from VA but it's.

I'm 82.

It's getting a little late for that.

Okay I still.

Stick with it all right.

Could I know.

They have some readers and I have a friend he used to work with us.

His wife is blind and she has a setup that she can listen to things and just repeats it so

okay.

Sorry about that forgot all that.

Quickly what I don't like.

Thanks again you helped.

All right God bless.

Okay all right.

We'll see ya.

Hey we have nobody waiting right now.

I just to finish up on Catholicism I'm gonna

say something that I've been saying before.

I'm gonna say it again.

The Roman Catholic Church is not Christian.

Its official doctrine is not Christian official

doctrine regarding salvation.

It curses the true gospel.

It adds works to salvation.

It also promotes a false priesthood.

It's priesthood supposed to have the authority to reach into the treasury of merits

and administer it through the sacraments to different people for different reasons at different times different

ceremonies.

It also has a false view of Mary and they've elevated Mary to the level of a goddess

that she can hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought.

Then you have these these apparitions of Mary.

When you read them they're demonic because they point to themselves.

They point to themselves and Jesus says the Holy Spirit will bear witness of him.

The scriptures bear witness of him the father bears witness of him the miracles bear witness of him the

prophets bear witness of him.

But these apparitions they will say things like come to me and I promise

salvation.

Whoever exalts me and all this stuff.

These are the apparitions.

They are demonic and the poor people who bow their knee to

before statues of Mary and pray to her and the Saints are

committing idolatry.

And another thing the Roman Catholic Church has done is replaced Christ with the church.

Functionally replaced Christ with the church.

They say they have not done that but in order to get to Christ you have to go through the church the

priesthood the sacraments.

Mary whoever whatever.

So they say no.

It's all from Jesus.

But it's not okay.

So the Roman Catholic Church is a false church and all who die believing its official doctrines

of Mary and salvation and the priesthood unfortunately

will enter eternal damnation.

There's the music.

May the Lord bless you and by his grace look back on year on Monday and I hope you

have a great weekend.

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