Gabe Rench: When Governments Go Rouge


Greg welcomed back Gabe Rench to the podcast this week. Gabe is one of the hosts of the Crosspolitic Podcast and CEO of Pengo Media and Co-Founder of the Fight Laugh Feast Network. They discussed what the biblical mandate is when a government no longer is fulfilling the requirements of Romans 13, what the disciples and early church fathers response to persecution was, and Gabe also stuck around for a segment of "Fresh 10". Enjoy!


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Page50. We love the guys over at Page50, Stuart and those gentlemen, actually met them at a Fight Laugh Feast conference, which kind of ties in to what we're going to be talking about today.
But first and foremost, what we're going to be talking about today was kind of started just because you guys have been listening long enough to know, and I've been talking about what happened here in Michigan over the last election.
In November 2022, the Democrats here in Michigan took the House, the
Senate, and the governorship for the first time in 32 years. Also, there was a referendum on the ballot that went to the public to vote for a constitutional amendment that passed, it was called
Proposition 3, among three other propositions on the ballot. And this proposition essentially allowed abortion up to the second of birth.
It allowed castration of minors without parental consent. It is the most liberal, most sweeping legislation.
Now, it's not a law, it's a constitutional amendment, constitutionally protected in the state constitution for these type of issues.
So I wanted to have a guy on that has experience in this, in the public sphere, obviously has experience with legislative things, politics, government,
Christianity, reform, theology, things like that. I couldn't think of anyone better. And I was scouring the internet, guys, for a bio, and I found this on his
LinkedIn, and I just love this bio. It's so cheeky. You can say many things about this gentleman, but I love that it says host of Cross Politics Studio, CEO of Pengo Media and Dropwave, and barbecue and scotch chief taster.
Yes, it's Gabe Wrench, a .k .a. The Waterboy. Gabe, how are you, sir? Hey, Greg, thanks for having me on your show, man.
I love that you're a barbecue and scotch chief taster. Now, is that a self -imposed title? Very much, yeah.
And someone's got to do it, right? Someone has to do it. So I think everyone that listens to this podcast are probably pretty familiar with you.
But if you just want to give us a little 60 second bio really quick for any new listeners, introduce yourself. Yeah, I was born in Texas and raised up in a
Christian family, and my mom and dad kind of moved us around a little bit. After 97, we ended up in Oregon, and then eventually
I went to California, Colorado, and now I'm in Idaho. I came to Moscow, Idaho, which is the town
I still live in, I live in now, to go to University of Idaho. And that's where I met my wife.
And I now serve as the deacon at King's Cross, also here, which is a plant of Christ Church, Pastor Doug Wilson's church here in town.
And I've got three kids and live on a little boutique ranch three miles outside of town.
And if any of you have been listening to my show this last six months,
I lost 12 chickens, no, 11 chickens throughout the year to some coyote that kept getting in my chicken coop.
And so my last chicken that's still alive is named Katniss because she made it through the
Hunger Games. So now what was it?
Was it going under? Was it going over? How was that coyote getting in? Was it digging underneath the run?
Yeah, I got this old 1950s barn and it's got all sorts of holes in it. So every time I patch up another hole, there's another hole there.
It's another one. I think I might have things under control now, but there's a lot of trial and error.
Eleven chickens. Yeah, well, hey, you got to get those organic eggs.
They're eight dollars, nine dollars a dozen in the store right now. So you're making your money just on the eggs. So the reason why
I wanted to have you on just because I've had a lot of people reach out to me in Michigan. I always laugh.
I need to change the intro. It says undisclosed location, but we've talked so much. Now people probably know exactly where I live, but we're in Michigan.
Last week, I had on my address. I'm not I'm not getting that specific.
All right. There are still some crazy people out there. But last week on the podcast, we had the president of End Abortion now
Ohio on, along with another pastor friend of mine who's working through some legislation in Ohio because the liberals and progressives had said we want to make a red state,
Ohio the poster child and mimic what Michigan did. So they're working through some abolition legislation and things like that.
So that a lot of people reach out to me and go, well, what is the Christian response? What are we what should we do? I know a lot of people go right to Romans 13, and we're not going to stay too long on that because, boy,
I think your show, my show and many others talked about that during the covid era. But I just wanted to get you on and and have you talk about what is our response when we have something like a civil government that is not acting according to scripture, meaning a government that brings justice to evildoers and protects the righteous.
I think we've seen in the last days, especially for the last 30 years, going back farther than that, that the
U .S. government doesn't seem to be bringing justice to evildoers or protecting the righteous. It looks like they've kind of flipped that a little bit.
So first and foremost, just to set the foundation in this discussion, I kind of wanted to know what what is the
Christian to do? What is your because in the reason why I'm asking this is because you look at what you guys are doing out there in Idaho.
You're I think you're a pretty conservative state, but in a pretty liberal area, if I remember correctly.
And you guys are kind of the beacon of hope in Moscow. And a lot of people are looking nationally, looking to you guys on how you've modeled through education and church and things like that.
So is it something similar? Is it different in every state and every municipality? And where do we start, do you think?
Yeah, you know, like you alluded to, I live in Moscow, Idaho, Latak County is my county, and I'm in this blue dot and red state.
There's only, I think, two blue dots in our state and everything else is red. And so there's been a lot of clashing for the last 25 years.
I've been there since 2002. And I mean, there's not barely a year goes by where we don't have some sort of fight with our local city or the liberals in town or some sort of either social or political fight in the last 20, 23 years, 23 years since I've been here.
So it's been quite an interesting climate that I think the nation's now starting to really have.
So what happened to us locally for the last 20, 25 years is now starting to happen nationally.
In terms of, I think, building community, you know, oftentimes we, especially conservatives, we always look to the big races to change our lives, the big voting races to change our lives.
So we look to, oh, we need a better governor or we need a better president. And really what you need is a better sheriff, really what you need is a better county commissioner.
So we don't pay attention to the local elections and we generally maybe only really show up to the state elections or the national elections.
And so that's caused a lot of problems. Even even your local library board is now a battleground.
We'll run for your local library election. A lot of a lot of those elections are actually voted into to run your local libraries.
And in fact, we got one here in May that I'm working with. I'll be releasing some news about this soon.
But we have election here in May for our local library board. So there's a lot of local ways to easily get involved.
And you always want to start with what you can have an impact on, a reasonable impact on and not what and not like your governor's race, where your impact is very, very, very thin.
You're going to have a greater impact, a lot bigger impact locally. So start. Secondly, you know, we've you know,
Jeremiah, a number of others say, you know, you need to be doing good to your city. And the way you do good in your city isn't as a
Jeremiah 30, Jeremiah 29, Jeremiah 30, where it says, you know, God's sending
Israel into Babylon. He said, I want you to go there and I want you to do good in that city.
And the way you're going to do that city is have kids. Is build a family and exile.
And so I would really camp out on that and say, you know, start with building a faithful family, because God's making it really easy in your town.
The liberals are not having kids. And if they do have kids, they kill them. And then if those whatever kids kind of get through the liberal gauntlet and actually live and come outside the mother's womb, well, they are not being discipled.
Well, they're growing up to hate God. They're growing up to hate their culture. They're growing up to hate their their families. And they're growing up to be very violent kids.
So you have opportunity just just from a familial level to really build and have an impact in the next generation.
My goal, I try to think in terms of 40 years. What can I accomplish in one generation?
So I'm 43 years old now. So what can I accomplish in the next 40 years? And so my goal in the next 40 years is to do my best to turn
Idaho into a beacon of light. And that starts with my kids and that starts with my county.
And now I've by the grace of God, I have a an opportunity to impact
Idaho beyond my county because of some of my work in politics. And so I have the ability,
I have I can do a little bigger impact on the state of things also. And so I have some influence and impact there.
And so over the next 40 years, I would like my kids to be able to reasonably buy a house in Idaho. The bar is low and I want to see the economy continue to grow and have an impact.
And so that's, you know, start with start with where you can have an impact. And, you know, of course, that starts with your family, your job and then your community and then kind of assess the situation from there.
But but I can't tell you if you look at the voting statistics, probably in your county, in your state, I know in our county alone.
So I'm in I said I'm in this liberal county. Well, if the conservatives is 60 percent, 65 percent of conservatives would actually get out and vote, we would not have a liberal mayor right now.
Right. Like I live in a liberal county and we could actually not have a liberal mayor if conservatives actually would just gauge.
And so there's a real apathy in the conservative movement. And to show up, like I said, at presidential elections or governor elections, and that's about it.
And then you lose your city, you lose your county, you lose your library board, you lose your local public school board. And then here we are and we're kind of and then we turn in complainers.
So get involved and it doesn't take much to know what's going on in your county, in your community, as you know. Yeah, so you actually are you actually perfectly led me into my next question, because when you were talking,
I'm thinking and I'm sure most of the listeners know this because your case was national news and I'm sure you're tired of talking about it.
But I look at someone like you who was arrested while singing in public, put through a two, two and a half year court battle.
You won, by the way, not only won, but soundly won. I mean, you really spanked the local municipality.
They didn't even know how to enforce or what they were enforcing when it came to social distancing through their ordinance or through what their state constitution said.
You get really no punitive damages, no money. You're out two years of your life.
You sat a night in jail. I look at you and I go, how are you not apathetic towards the system?
I have so many Christians that come to me and they just go they're apathetic, meaning I just I can't
I can't focus on it. I can't care. I've got I got a homeschool. I got, you know, a business to run.
I've got, you know, family things to do in here. Now I'm supposed to pay attention to politics and be involved in that.
And I whatever, I'm just going to hole up and try to make a nice little life for me and my family and leave it to the rest of the people.
What do you say to them? And not everyone has to be involved in politics. I don't think that's what we're saying here.
But not to just become apathetic to the secular world in general as believers. Yeah, I think
I mean, one of the simple answers to this is it takes 15 minutes a year to get involved in politics.
If you're if you're a family, you're in the middle of raising kids, you're in the middle of busy life, work, all that is going on.
Well, it only takes 15 minutes. It takes, you know, three minutes to call a friend who knows what's going on, who to vote for, ask him why you're voting for him.
Is this, you know, ask him, you know, is this a principled politician? I should be voting for Christian also. That takes three minutes, four minutes, five minutes to Google, whatever.
Always good to call who knows the knows the candidate. So you kind of second hand account of that of that politician versus even
Internet. And then it takes you, what, 10 minutes to go to the voting polls. I don't know. Some counties will take a little longer to stay in the lines or whatever, but it really doesn't take that long to get out and vote and to have an impact.
And then, you know, take another 20 minutes, 10 minutes or whatever, to figure out all the races that are going on the next year and just map them out from under counter.
You know, we got a library race in May coming up right now. And then next November, we got another race, you know, just map out those dates and just know you got to pay attention for 10 minutes around those dates and you're fine.
I mean, a little bit of engagement is going to go a long ways. Yeah. So it sounds like it's priority.
When I've talked to a lot of people, it sounds like they it's very low priority.
And one, they don't think they could make a difference or or will make a difference to sometimes they get pushed back and they go,
I don't really see a biblical mandate for holding civil government's feet to the fire, to a biblical standard.
I think you and I would disagree. Maybe expand on that a little bit. What if you have someone that comes to you and says, you know, like I said, head in the sand.
I just want to make sure that I have my two weeks of vacation. My family's safe and I'm, you know, and I'm self -sufficient.
All good things, by the way, all biblical things. But, you know, I'll let someone else do that. Or I don't think that we should even be out there running for for local offices and and protesting and activism, if you will, whatever that form looks like.
You know, it's a very general word. But what would you say to a Christian that says, yeah, I don't see a biblical mandate for that?
Would you disagree? I think you would. And why? Yeah, first off, that that reason is not working out for us really well right now.
Now we got transgender library drag hour. Secondly, it's really weird that we apply that logic to the government, but we would not apply that logic to the family government.
If a pagan father was telling his kid to go steal from the local
Walmart or whatever and we saw it all going down, we would step in. In fact, you have a duty to step in.
And we and the kid shouldn't respond to his dad and say and his dad say, you need to submit. I'm your higher authority.
That's the odd thing about all this. And in Romans, the only verse you really hear evangelicals start to push is verse five.
You need you need to submit to the government. That's it. So Romans chapter 13, verse five is really the only verse that's ever appealed to in all this.
You need to submit to the government. But we don't apply that to fatherhood. We don't apply that to the church.
If the if the church is is raping, it's if the Catholic priests are raping its kids, we don't say the
Catholic priests can't say, hey, you need to submit. Well, in the same way, if if the civil government is politically raping and pillaging its citizens, which it is, we don't we don't blindly submit.
And Romans 13 is very clear that that, you know, the government's job is to do good. Well, what is that standard?
What is the what is the definition of good? Who sets the standard of good? Well, it's God, not the government. And so the government's supposed to do good to those who are doing good and do evil to those who are doing evil.
And so that line of reasoning is really broken because we don't apply it to any other place in our life. If you're if your boss at your company tells you to, you know, start siphoning off a little bit of money off the top of the accounting spreadsheets.
Well, that's in the boss says you need to submit to me. No, we don't we don't we don't just arbitrarily give totalitarian authority to any authority in our lives, whether it's your boss at work or your dad at home or your mayor in your inner city, that kind of logic and reasoning is very flawed and not biblical.
And I'll say lastly, lastly to this. If if a law, if a set of laws are going to, you know, run a state or run a country, then what is the best law?
God's law. It's not man's law. The best man's law is is contradicts.
It's hypocritical. It's it's it judges wrongly.
You know, so why would I not want God's law to influence our city, our county, our state or our government?
It's the best law. Yeah, some of the pushback I get, too, is someone might tell me and I've had someone tell me this.
Well, you know, Paul was was writing Romans or whoever you believe the author of Romans was.
I believe it's Paul, you know, under an oppressive Roman government and they didn't start rioting.
They didn't start changing laws. They lived peaceably and peaceably as they could without being, you know, they're burned alive or their or their throats slit.
So why don't we model that now outside? I, you know, I want to get your perspective on this, but there's also very good examples of Peter, Dr.
Joe Boot, who, you know, very well, you actually introduced us was talking, I think, about it at the
Fight Left Feast conference in South Dakota about how Peter stands up and says that there's no other name by which you are saved.
It was the same inscription on the Roman coin. The Caesar was God and you were saved by him.
And he was very well standing up to the government just as much as he was standing standing up to the nonbelievers.
You know, there's there's there's also places where Paul uses his Roman citizenship to his advantage.
Excuse me. Can you do this to a Roman citizen or do I have to have a fair trial? And of course they say, oh, we didn't know you're a
Roman citizen. Yeah, you're correct. So there's ways you see Paul using the legal system and his status as a citizen.
But I've had people more than what I would think come to me and go, well, they didn't rise up and fight under an oppressive
Rome. So why should we defy tyrants under an oppressive United States or European Union or Australia or whatever it is?
What would your pushback be on that? I'm just curious. Oh, there's there's levels to that.
We're going to solve all the world's problems right here, Gabe. Yeah, I mean, loving your neighbor, one of the most basic ways to love your neighbor is to not let tyrants push your neighbor around.
You know, if you love your city, if you love your county, then then stand up for those who are being pushed around.
You know, it's it's it's it's really basic in some sense. You know, if you think about how our nation has developed over these years, you know,
God's law, the Christian influence, the common law influence on our country and all that we've coasted off it for so long that a lot of people can build all these assumptions off off that coasting.
And but once that train hits the it's the brick wall, once that coasting stops, once God's law and the
Christian influence on our country is totally severed, which is almost there. Yeah, we are we are walking into a totalitarian regime where literally in California and in the state of Washington just this past year, passed legislation that they can take your kids away if you won't let them transition.
If you say if you if the government finds out that you're keeping your kids from sexually transitioning from a man to a woman, a woman, a man, whatever it is, and you're the parent that's prohibiting that process, they will confiscate your children.
And so, you know, so are the laws of our land are now finally getting detached to where people
I hope can clearly see that we we need to reclaim our
Christian founding, our Christian roots and reclaim the center of what a Christian society looks like, because we coasted off it for so long, we took it for granted for so long.
And so now we can have some of these arguments that are not intellectually sound or accurate, according to the
Bible. But but because we're coasting on this Christian influence, they can sound reasonable.
But once that train hits that brick wall, like it's starting to happen now, all the all the wheels falling are falling off that argument as we speak.
I don't know if that really answers your question. No, but that's good. Yeah. No, it's it's so good because I mean, we're getting to the point of exactly what a depraved heart wants absent of God.
Obviously, I believe when this country was founded and you can go back and read a lot of letters and a lot of literature about the many of the founding fathers saying this is for a moral people by biblical, godly standards,
I believe God's law does restrain wickedness. And I think once we are off of that standard, of course, we're going to see what man's heart truly wants, which is total depravity and anti God, the spirit of Antichrist.
With that being said, let's finish up this section here with this then. So there's a lot of talk about theonomy,
Christian nationalism, and we're not going to get in to that whole argument right now. I just wanted to maybe give the listeners maybe a 50000 foot overview of what your belief is of what would a civil government that is serving
Christ or that is establishing Christ purpose look like? Are we looking at something that was more closer to the
U .S. Constitution, where we incorporated some general equity and mosaic law and then tried to also give personal liberty?
Are we going back to a more hard, hardcore theonomy where we're looking at kind of the nation of Israel and in every little judicial law, or are we looking at something different?
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so I'd want to start the conversation here where God has given us three forms of government.
He's given us three authorities in our society. He's given us the family government, the church government and the state government.
And so each of those authorities have kind of a direct calling from God.
So the family government doesn't get its authority from the state and it doesn't get its authority from the church.
It gets its authority from God. And same for the civil government. The civil government doesn't get it. So these governments authoritatively get their marching orders from the
Lord. So I would want to start there. And secondly, related to that, this is where the conversation immediately goes is, well, are you what about the whole idea of separation of church and state?
I absolutely amen the separation of church and state. I don't amen the separation of Christ and state.
I don't amen the separation of God and state. The state reports to God. The state report doesn't report to the church.
The church doesn't report to the state. The state, the church reports to God. So they're vertical, authoritative reporting procedures that each of these government institutions have.
So with that in mind, then we can kind of start talking about, well, like I said earlier, I believe the best law is God's law.
And so I would want God's law to be the foundation of all our laws here in society.
And when I say foundation, the Westminster Confession uses the phrase with good and necessary consequence.
So we recognize that we aren't in the liturgical laws of Leviticus anymore.
In fact, we recognize that there's laws in Israel that were in context of that time.
But I don't want to get rid of that principle. I want to apply that law with good and necessary consequence to us here and now.
I don't want to do away with the New Testament. I want to figure out how to apply the Old Testament. Excuse me, I don't want to do away with the Old Testament.
I want to figure out how to apply that Old Testament with good and necessary consequence here and now. And lastly, there's two other categorical issues,
I think, that need to be solved here. One is there are three kinds of law, three categorical laws in the
Old Testament. You have the liturgical law, the moral law and the civil law. So liturgical law was done away with in Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, our final prophet, priest and king. That's why he's our final priest. That's why we don't sacrifice anymore.
So the liturgical laws are done away, very clearly ended in the
New Testament. The moral law still applies today. I'm still called to not commit adultery in my heart.
I'm still called to not, you know, to not covet my neighbor's cow. I'm still called to steal, lie, murder.
So the moral law still apply today. And the criminal law, you know, that civil law still applies today.
But with good and necessary consequence. So what do I mean? Let me give you an illustration by that. Paul, and man,
I'm drawing a blank. Paul in, I want to say, Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 9.
He says, you know, talking about, you know, paying your pastor, paying your elder as well.
And some of them get double honor and you don't want to muzzle an ox. You know, you wouldn't muzzle an ox, so don't muzzle your pastor.
And so what Paul's doing there, he's actually applying that principle of good and necessary consequence. He's saying that like the
Old Testament law says about not muzzling your ox. Well, don't do that for your pastor either. So he's taking
Old Testament law and applying it in the New Testament with good and necessary consequence. And that's how we should be like thinking
Christians when we talk about God's law and applying it to our civil, our county, excuse me, our city, state context.
And here's the thing, and then we'll end this this section here. I feel like this is a hot button issue.
But even me growing up in the 80s, 90s, looking back 50, 60 years into United States history, this was the general consensus of most
Christians anyway, how the country should be ran. I look at, like I said, the founding fathers and they kind of took a general equity approach, right?
Like that's why we have things like building codes and safety things. And, you know, when you go back to that law.
So I'm not sure why this is becoming such a hot button issue. Now, we're going to have 80 rebels on next week and he's going to break it down for us.
And, you know, he takes a very certain approach, which I think might be more of a lightning rod.
But I'm just surprised that we're well, maybe it's because the secular culture is moving so far away from Christ.
It feels that much more bizarre. But overall, I would say that's a pretty general idea.
But most Christians, whether you're Presbyterian, Baptist, evangelical, it was, oh, no, we should be taking
Christ's law, that general equity kind of like you said, way to use those words, but in applying it into our criminal and judicial codes.
So it always kind of surprises me that this is now such a big issue. But I appreciate those thoughts.
Let's wrap this up. Let's move into fresh 10. I sprung this on you. This is where we ask you 10 fresh questions.
You don't know what they are. It's so our listeners can get to know you a little bit more. Obviously, you show your true self on cross politic on every episode, which
I absolutely love. There is no facade when it comes to the water boy, but we just like to ask some fun questions and then we get to compare them.
So you can go you can see what your answers are to James Wyatt or the Doug Wilsons or the Michael Browns of the world.
So you're ready to play some fresh time. Let's do it. Let's go. All right, here we go.
10 fresh questions. Rapid fire first. Who's your favorite actor? You know,
I like I like Denzel Washington. I like Mel Gibson. That's just that's a pretty Mel Gibson's a pretty taboo one.
But I grew up on Lethal Weapon, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Full disclosure. This always gets some people in trouble because these are very general questions and people will say a certain actor or movie and go, oh, they have to preface it.
We understand. Listen, one of my favorite movies I watch over and over is Payback, which is an old movie from the 90s.
And he just wants a 70 grand Mel Gibson. And I think it's one of the better movies that he did. OK, question number two, moving right along.
What do you wish you had known 10 years ago? Oh, man, that's a that's a good question.
I think I wish I would have been working a little harder on learning more about economics and how and what our country economically is doing to destroy itself.
That's good. Question number three. What three albums are you taking with you on the desert island?
Three albums. Oh, man. Or you can just give us one, even if you give us one. Lauryn Hill.
OK. I'll say even though he's getting out of my my my favorite here, but Brad Paisley, I love his country music, but I hate the fact he's involved in all this
Ukrainian silly, you know, celebrity stuff. So those guitars are awesome.
And Mumford and Sons. Wow, that is a spread. I love it. All right.
Question number four, what properties do you try to buy when you're playing Monopoly? Are you a boardwalk in Park Place guy or you go for the slums on the first row?
Oh, man, the last time I played Monopoly was with my kids. And it's just your desires.
And when you're competing, you want to you want to you want to pick the rich places. And but yeah,
I don't have a good answer for that. My kids change my motivations for that game. It's more about being fun. All right, so what's a movie you can watch over and over?
Not necessarily a favorite, but when you can just you go, oh, it's on. I'll watch it. I don't really get tired of it.
Two movies, Hoosiers, Hoosiers. OK, good. So good. I've liked that.
My dad got me hooked on that. We used to watch it before every basketball season. And then the other one is with a it's oh my goodness.
I'm trying to play against Jimmy Stewart. The Christmas. Oh, wonderful life.
Yeah, it's a wonderful life. Yeah, it's a wonderful life. Yeah, I almost I watch it every Christmas, too. And as you get older, it's amazing how much better that movie gets and how much more you appreciate it as you get older.
Yeah, for sure. All right. Question number six, the flux capacitor is fluxing.
You're in the DeLorean. You jump in the time machine. Are you going back 100 years to visit your great great grandfather?
You going forward 100 years to visit your great great grandchildren? Oh, that's a tough question.
I would love to go back and meet my great grandfather because I would love to hear about my family's history and past.
And of course, you'd love to go forward because you want to see, you know, what God I believe God's going to bless my family to a thousand generations.
And I want to see what that what impact they're having on culture and society. I'd love to see that. You got to pick one.
Ford, I knew it, the postmill came through. No postmill has ever said back in time, I love it.
All right. Question number seven. What's the best piece of advice someone has ever given you? Two, two things.
One is keep short accounts, confess your sins quickly between you and your wife.
Keep short accounts. That has been an invaluable principle in my marriage. And then
I remember when I was getting married, my my father in law said to me, you need to be like an oak tree for your family.
When the wind blows, you don't blow over when the storm comes. You're an oak tree. And so you need to read the
Bible, follow God, be faithful in such a way that your your your roots are deepening and you're becoming a stronger oak tree over time.
That is good advice. All right. Question number eight, you're a creative guy. Are you a morning person or a night person?
When do those creative juices get flowing? I'm a night person, but my wife is more of a morning person.
And so I kind of got to strike a little bit of a balance. I usually end up staying up later, but not as late as I used to.
And she ends up waking up a little earlier. And then I wake up, you know, earlier than I'd like to. So I had to split the day.
Yeah. All right. Question number nine. What is one thing people would assume about you, but isn't true?
He's thinking I would say I would say so I definitely wear my emotions on my sleeve.
I definitely am more on the goofy side of things.
And oftentimes I kind of, you know, I'm a joker, that kind of stuff.
But I'm I think a little more thoughtful and theologically studied than people might might think.
And so, right. That might be. I'm not that I'm not a smart guy. I'm not saying I'm, you know,
I get what you're saying. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, you have that persona. OK, last question on cross politic.
For some reason, I don't know how it happens, but you have the ability to interview for a half hour.
Any theologian dead or alive? No, you can't choose Christ. Any theologian or scholar dead or alive?
You got a half hour on cross politic. Who are you calling in? Man, I would obviously
Apostle Paul would be my number one. He may he may even my number one, but I got a fab five here. I got a fab five here.
Oh, you all find them. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Apostle Paul would be number one. I would
I would love to interview Clement because he was kind of that second century. Yeah. That would be really, really interesting to interview.
I think Constantine would be, you know, kind of third century there.
And then he would be interesting with the whole the whole Roman era and all that all that stuff's going on. And then
St. Nick, St. Nick, you know, that's my number four, St. Nick there, you know. And and then
I think kind of more recently, probably R .L. Dabney would be probably round off my top five list.
That is an interesting five. The most interesting five I think we've ever had on the show. I like it. All right.
There we go. That's fresh time with Gabe. All right,
Gabe, thanks for spending some time with this. You'll be a favor. Throw out a little info about Fight Left Feast where people can get the app or how they can sign up for it.
And maybe just give us a 30 second preview on the Fight Left Feast conference coming up in October.
Yeah, you can download our app. It's in the app store, Fight Left Feast. Just Google Fight Left Feast in the app store or cross politic in the app store and you can download our app.
It's a great place to go. We're actually doing a major update to our app here in the next month. Our conference this year is at the
Arc Encounter. I'm so excited about this. We have room. I think I think
Lord Willen will sell out. We got it. We only got room for 2000 people. And so get your tickets now.
And we got Ken Ham speaking. We got Dr. Gordon Wilson speaking, of course, our favorites, Pastor Wilson, Toby.
We got Joe Rigney speaking this year. Nice one. And but but but here's the cool thing.
One of the things that we want to do these conferences, we want to make them a family experience. So we kick off the conference of beer and songs that actually happens on Wednesday night this year.
Normally happens on Thursday. So this is October 11th through the 14th. I'm talking about beer and songs on kicks off on Wednesday night.
And the reason why we did that is because we wanted the families to build up opportunity to go experience the
Arc and the Creation Museum. So Arc Encounter, Arc on Thursday morning,
Creation Museum. No, Creation Museum on Thursday morning to Arc on Friday morning. And so I only had like 20 minutes to check out the facilities when
I went through because I was making sure it was going to be a good facility for our conference.
And so I got 20 minutes to walk through the Arc, and it's a three hour, four hour experience to walk through the Arc. It's a life sized replica, and it really is a historical, scientific and spiritual experience.
Yeah, because you you you kind of you kind of connect with what the scriptures is talking about a little more as as you experience walking through the
Arc, going up each row. They their exhibits are really good. And then, of course, the scientific implications of the
Arc Encounter worldwide flood is massive to a Christian doctrine. And then the spiritual aspect to it that, you know,
God, God judges and God saves. And so I'm actually pulling my kids are actually they've never gone to a conference with me yet because they're always in school and being homeschooled.
Excuse me, being at school at Logos. And so we're actually pulling them out of school and they're going with me to the
Arc Encounter because I want them to experience that Arc Encounter. There's an interview with me and Pastor Toby interviewing
Ken Ham. And I kind of jokingly, you know, because Ken Ham raised one hundred million dollars to build the
Arc. A lot of money. And I kind of jabbed him a little bit.
And I said, hey, why why do you waste one hundred million dollars on wood to build the ship, to build this boat?
He doesn't. I called it a boat to build this boat. And and he said, you know, we get about one point five million visitors a year to the
Arc Encounter. Out in the middle of nowhere, Kentucky. And about 30 percent of those visitors are non -Christian.
So he gets about 300 ,000 people a year that are not Christians coming out and experiencing the
Arc Encounter and seeing this historical, scientific gospel presentation of the scriptures. That's awesome.
So really, and he kind of turned that around on me and he said, you know, how many how many people is your church reaching every year?
Yeah, true. Well, that's so cool, man, that you guys are partnering with with them down there.
I know the conference is going to be good. And guys, listen, for those listening, don't undersell the Fight Left Feast app.
You know, we were talking earlier about what do we do if you're apathetic? I don't feel like I could get involved.
Go sign up. Go pay these guys five, ten, twenty, fifty dollars a month and support people who believe the way you do, who are bringing you incredible content.
If you go on that app, there's just so many good things. I'm a member. I encourage each of my listeners to go check it out.
Don't don't throw your money at a, you know, at a pagan company like, you know,
Ben, Ben Shapiro and Daily Wire with all these good conservative. Look at he doesn't believe that Christ is ruling and reigning now.
He's a pagan. A lot of his people, I mean, he is, you know, gay hosts on there who are having and adopting babies and celebrating all these things.
Go give it to believers that are actually changing the culture for Christ and the Fight Left Feast app is a good way to do that and to sign up for a monthly subscription.
So, Gabe, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you taking time. I know you're extremely busy.
You've got calls to make and meetings after this, but I'm excited to see you this October.
We will be there at Fight Left Feast. We'll make sure we link all this up on the website as well, too. Guys, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.
We appreciate you listening, commenting, sharing with a friend. We couldn't do it without you. Our only goal is to bring glory to God.