Leaving the New Age with Doreen Virtue

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You know, there's people who don't listen to their angels they have the angels they don't listen to them Because they have free will you have free will

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I have free will and while your angels might stand by Praying gosh,

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I wish that they'd asked for my help today They can't force it on you But they're there

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So if you will join me in sending white light to the hearts of people the angels promised me that we can speed up our mission

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Collectively, thank you. I knew I could count on you a barrier Just even it doesn't matter how long you do it like right now white light to the hearts of everyone

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Just whenever you send light, it's a gift. Just let it go This is not a past life discussion, but I absolutely know that there are past lives and reincarnation

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Your past lives are all coming up right now for you This is a time of karmic balancing not so much in undoing wrongs either direction

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But in understanding fears and phobias that you've you have created for yourself over lifetimes

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I guess fear we need you to face is the fear of coming out of the spiritual closet and being your authentic self for some of you

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Who like myself didn't have the nicest end of other lives because you were a light worker It brings up fears

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About stepping out there being your authentic self. It's nothing but pure natural energy. Let's drink it in right now

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Taking a deep breath and we ask that you connect to your energy within we're going to the high energy now

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Strong and sensitive and powerful light workers who work on the pranic level Breathing it in.

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So what is your life purpose? Well, you all know that the core of our life purpose is the same for all of us and that is love and That's because that's who we are and We are one love one spirit each and every one of us

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Our higher self knows this your higher self knows that and when we go into meditation, we all remember that Everybody on this whole planet has a personal mission for themselves

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But light workers like yourselves Also signed up for a global mission and you can feel that global mission

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The form it takes is we know there's something that's supposed to do to help people So I'm here to recruit and initiate you onto whatever your purpose is

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But what's needed right now is for all of us to be aligned with our truth Now that's a fancy New Age term

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When I was in the New Age, I thought that I was following Jesus It turned out I was following the false

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Christ that Jesus warned about in the latter days and the the false

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Jesus says I love everything I love everyone and kind of does this Swoop on what you said on the greatest commandment to love people and says that if you love people then anything they do is fine

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You know, so yeah, just just accept them as they are which is actually the most unloving thing

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We can do when we understand the biblical truth because that's leading them to hell right the wide

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The narrow gate is a gate of realizing that we're sinners

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And when when I realized that it was actually such a relief to realize that I needed

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God and who God was and I needed Jesus to save me and steer my life that When I looked back on my life that I had done a horrible job of being my own

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God at the time I really thought I was doing God's work a lot of New Agers will tell you that that they're doing

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God's work and That Christians are not doing God's work because it makes people unhappy This is their litmus test

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And so when I saw in Deuteronomy 18 that what I was doing made me an abomination to God it broke my heart

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I was on my knees crying and weeping I maybe three days of Begging God to forgive me and just saying

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I don't I didn't know God. I didn't know I didn't know over and over I'm so sorry. I didn't know

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And then the more I read the Bible I saw that hell is real in the New Age It's considered to be a metaphor that you have hell or heaven on earth and in the

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New Age It's universalist that the belief is everyone goes to heaven Yeah, all paths lead to God.

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So it's pluralistic Relativistic and universalistic So you can't you can do no wrong in the

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New Age at the bottom line when I read that I had done grievous wrong That's what I would say

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Welcome to the thirdly equipped podcast where we compare the teachings from popular women's ministry books conferences

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Bible studies Etc to Scripture our focus is 2nd Timothy 3 16 to 17 that all

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Scripture is God -breathed and is useful for teaching rebuking correcting and training in righteousness

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So the man or woman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work

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I'm your host Melba toast. May this episode bless you and bring glory to God Welcome to thoroughly equipped.

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We have now started season 3. It's been a little bit of work

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I'm as you can see, I'm still in my basement But eventually I'll get moved upstairs don't know when that's gonna happen

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But I thought okay, I've had about three months break a lot of work involved in that time

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But time to get moving up back on the pot podcast so for the first episode of any season,

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I really like to have a interview with a woman who's come out of some kind of movement or false teaching last

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Season we had an interview with Amy Russo from Grace and Peace Radio and she had come out of Feminism and we discussed her testimony and kind of dived into that this season

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Our guest on TE is Doreen Virtue So Doreen Virtue if you don't know anything about her was a top -selling new age author

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With heretical publications in 38 languages by various publishers

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She had an appearance on Oprah and sold out international workshops before God graciously saved her back in 2017 now she is a whistleblower

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Exposing new age deception and warning the church of false teaching on our YouTube channel on social media pages and including

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Facebook and on frequent other Podcasts and YouTube channel interviews

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Doreen has been featured on American Gospel 3 American Gospel TV Daily Wire moody radio spillover

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Christianity Today cultish and other Christian media Doreen graduated with a master's degree in biblical and theological studies 56 units with highest honors from Western Seminary in 2021 she holds a

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BA and MA in counseling psychology from Chapman University it was a

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Brilliant interview in my opinion as we dive into not her not only her testimony but we talked about spiritualism and mysticism and witchcraft and yoga and Enneagram and all of it

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So, I hope you enjoy here's my interview with Doreen virtue Doreen thank you so much for coming on to thoroughly equipped.

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I am super excited So I've been praying and studying and going back to old

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Interviews I saw with you because I remember seeing you on the Justin Peters Didache podcast and I was fascinated and I heard about that podcast through Chris fighting for the faith through Chris Roseboro and Amy Spreeman and Michelle Leslie were talking about you and how you had come out of out of the

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New Age and I found that so Fascinating learning all about you. So I have been super excited to have you on especially because going forward on This next season

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I'm going to start diving into some more charismatic teachings

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I don't know if you know much about my show but I Typically was brought up in the seeker sensitive.

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I got heavily involved in seeker sensitive churches the purpose -driven gospel was the gospel that I Really cut was brought up around And Coming out of that and then moving into Reformed Theology, it was just a freedom an immense immense freedom to Realize what

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Christ had actually done and it was all paid for and I didn't have to do a thing so but what what

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I've started to see because I came out of it is Gnosticism mysticism

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New Age witchcraft tools Coming into the church and so then that's why

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I wanted to have you on knowing your background which would you go into your background and how you came out of the

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NAR and all or not the NAR but the a New Age Movement and everything

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Yeah, praise the Lord and thank you for having me on your program It's so great to meet you Melissa, and I want to thank brother

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Andrew also for introducing us. Yeah, that's great Yeah, speaking of Gnosticism I was raised in a neo

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Gnostic false church called Christian science and I was the fifth generation of our family

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Christian scientists all from my mother's side Our my dad who was a Presbyterian did not do spiritual covering or he was not the spiritual leader of our family

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He let my mom take care of my brother. That's a picture my brother and I up there And and so Christian science is completely blasphemous and heretical

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By the false prophetess Mary Baker Eddie It was also a King James Version only as church and I was given a

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King James Bible when I was a kid We read it every single day, but the trouble was that it was cherry -picked assigned verses

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So you had to read only the assigned verses they were taken out of context and then the commentary was

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Mary Baker Eddie's book So it was through her lens that we were reading the Bible and we were in church twice a week

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So I thought I was a Christian my whole life Melissa I mean, I I had that trappings on the outside, but I was definitely not saved.

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I I knew the name Jesus I knew a little bit of the Bible, but I didn't know

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Jesus I didn't know God and I certainly didn't know I was a sinner in need of a the

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Savior Jesus My mom was a professional Christian science practitioner Which is very much word of faith where you name it and claim it you decree and declare you use prayers out of the

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Bible But you twist them And the belief was that God always wants you to heal.

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So that's Exactly word of faith. Yeah, and we never went to doctors as a kid.

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We know doctors We didn't even take have repair people for our appliances or cars It was all prey over everything and the thing was this is what was confusing

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Melissa's that I saw People I didn't see them get healed but I would we would be at the testimony meetings every

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Wednesday night and Read the journal articles about their testimonies about being healed. That was our whole focus was

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Jesus healing your body or Jesus healing some thing that's broken.

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It was never about Salvation it was never about sanctification at all.

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It was just about getting healed a hundred percent So it was like the the physical health version of Joel Osteen who's always talking about getting rich.

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Yeah Yeah, it's amazing that God could give me a new heart and a new life that That I could really understand the gospel and be saved.

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Yeah, but I can How you went on to where you go next it sounds like so tell us a little bit about that.

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Yeah Yeah, so I I grew up Christian science, like I said, I was in the church

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I was in the Sunday school I was at the youth group events. I was all in I was a member of the

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Mother Church of Boston you know, that was my life was Christian science theology and So then

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I became a psychotherapist I went to Chapman University and earned a BA and an MA in psychology and how to Both the private practice and I worked in inpatient in hospitals with women's issues mostly women with eating disorders and sexual abuse survivors and and Then since childhood,

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I'd had kind of these paranormal supernatural experiences. I really believe it was Because my dad didn't you know,

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I hate to blame him But there was no spiritual covering in our house And this was a very demonic

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Christian science is very demonic in the way that it it teaches So I just think that there was real things happening as a child, but nobody understood them or could explain them so I I think

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I got into psychology for that, but then the paranormal experiences continued

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When I became a psychotherapist where I would sit with a client and I would just know things about them

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Just they wouldn't even need to tell me anything I mean real details and this was just my whole life

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I was like my friends counselor just, you know, very intuitive I guess would be the word the secular word and and and so After a while I started to teach

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About eating disorders, but it was through the lens of Christian science So it was metaphysical eating disorder psychology books

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And I started to get really my book started to get really popular. So I was on Oprah twice I was on Phil Donahue if anyone remembers him and the view and you know all the liberal shows

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I was on CNN constantly and being toured around the world, but The more that I was talking about this the more that I started to research new age

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Principles I I was more in the new thought world up until that point but but touring with other teachers who were new age

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I started to learn about yoga and chakras and I became a Reiki master and and I was just a hungry

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Researcher just absorbing what they were teaching and then I would teach others and I would write books about those

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So I was a real prolific writer doing automatic writing

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Where and we'll talk about that because that's how Jesus calling was made and that's how

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You know a lot of like the Enneagram. That's where it came from So I would just say a quote prayer protection and God doesn't protect us from doing sins, of course

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But that's the belief in the new age. You just pray a prayer protection and automatically you've got

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You've got your cover to sin and and I would just break I would just listen and it was as if another voice was speaking through me things

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I didn't understand and I would just type them or handwrite them out So I I wrote

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I think 70 books by the time I was saved. I'm I'm 65 years old right now

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I was saved at age 59 so in 2017 yeah, and and It was like going to another world another planet to be saved because it was the same language that I'd come out of but it

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Was being used in a whole different context so I enrolled in seminary just so I could learn to rightly divide

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God's Word and Got a master's in biblical and theological studies at Western Seminary with highest honors

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Which is all glory to God because before I was saved I would have got straight

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F's at seminary. I'm sure my unbiblical views I Was it was just so I could

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Really understand the Bible then the right way instead of through the lens of Mary Baker Eddy that I'd grown up with and and praise the praise the

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Lord so Because I've written all those books and they were licensed to publishers not only my

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US publisher, but foreign publishers I I stayed in the public eye after I was saved

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You know, I was already had a quite a platform and just stayed because I didn't want people to buy my books anymore

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I wanted them to burn them if they had them or throw them away I couldn't burn them and and my theology in the beginning was so bad.

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You know, I was just a baby Christian I I should have taken some time off, but but I didn't and that's the past So now what

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I do is I just call out New Age deception and New Age I see in the church and then

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I talk to people being called out of the New Age on social media on Instagram they can write to me or I'm an admin in a private

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Facebook group called from New Age to Jesus and and so I just all day long

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I talk to people about this and Wow, that's about my story one of the things

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That I thought was fascinating That I had heard in the past you talk about Well, actually

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I had watched some of your I don't know if you had posted these videos if there were other people that post videos

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I I saw some of your old I don't know if it was originally on YouTube, but I saw it on YouTube you'd have these visions and meetings with Jesus and angels and things like that and Yeah, it's really no different than what

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I typically see now in the NAR and hyper charismatic, but before we

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Get into that because I think you in one of your other interviews I listened to you said you even had a little bit where you were attending hyper charismatic type church or So what?

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Having those Having made that progression where where was it that you just stopped the

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New Age. What was it that made you? Leave New Age and then go. Oh, I need

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Christ Yeah, well Again I thought I was following Jesus my whole life

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I thought he was it's so blasphemous, but I thought he was one of my ascended master spirit guides and That's how the

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New Age views him as a just like Christian science I was raised in that he was a created human who watches over us and guides us and Like a guardian angel type of viewpoint

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And I thought that I was doing God's work this whole time because people who bought my

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New Age Products or came to my seminars always told me that I was comforting them I was helping them and they would say, you know, oh gosh, you're an angel sent from heaven

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I had no idea that what I was doing was a sin I there were born -again

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Christians coming against me But I didn't understand what they were. I just saw them as being angry people throwing

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Bible verses at me I didn't and no one sat down with me and said hey, let's just talk about Jesus and I'm not blaming them

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I mean my brother this is my brother here Ken who was saved 20 years before me. He shared the gospel with me

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He sent me Ray Comfort videos, which I did watch Wow But I was a fit I was offended and I heard the gospel

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I mean when I'm in the 90s, I was a big follower of Chuck Smith's ministry

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And I would listen to Chuck Smith on the radio and he was alive every day And and I grew up in the 60s and 70s before this kind of woke movement now

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It used to be that you'd hear the gospel on there it wasn't TBN back then there was

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Christian pastors on TV all the time and they'd be sharing the gospel reading out of the

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Bible. So, you know, even Billy Graham I know he's ecumenical but and there's issues with him, but he'd go on Johnny Carson and share the gospel

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So those of us who are my age We have we've heard the gospel our whole lives and God's Word does not return void

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The sticking point for me in Christian science and in new age is that we were taught we're not sinners

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That were made in God's image and likeness. So therefore we are sinless like God sinless

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So when I would hear the gospel or the sinner's prayer, I'd say that might be true for you You might be a sinner, but I'm not

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I'm in God's image and and that was the sticking point for me so to answer your question,

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I Heard Alistair Begg because I listen to him all the time on Jan in January 2015.

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He was doing expository sermon on 2nd Timothy 4 that the end times people want their itching ears tickled by false teachers and then he described a false teacher and It was the first time

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Melissa I can remember Having the Holy Spirit convict me never and And and and it was like ouch because he was describing a false teacher and it was like he was describing me and as a new age teacher

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So I heard this in the car on Christian Satellite Network and got home and I said to my husband

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I said, I think we need to go to a regular church. We'd been going to new age type of churches

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Or Roman Catholic we went to them quite a bit and and I said even though we weren't Roman Catholic We had no business going there either but we liked the candles and the statues and the idolatry

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It was like the New Age idolatry. Anyway, so so we started to kind of Flop around trying to find a solid denomination and we didn't know what we were doing.

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So we ended up at a Pentecostal Foursquare Church and and it nice people but it was all about again healing prophecy is so similar to Christian science and Even less

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Bible reading than Christian Science Church, so we felt Restless like okay. We want to learn about the

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Bible and so then we went over to an Episcopalian Church, which is called

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Catholic light and and we went we went there for two years because of the hospitality and we didn't know any different and it was in that Church that I wasn't saved at the church

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But I really started to read the Bible and and I'd always read little bits of the

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Bible But this time I read it from Genesis 1 through Revelation 22 so I just kept going and when

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I got to Deuteronomy 18 this is the passage where God is speaking through Moses to the second generation of Israelites who are about to Cross the

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Jordan River and and God is saying do not be like the Canaanites do not burn your children in the fire now, of course a

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Little odd fact is that I'd been pro -life since I was a teenager I was an oddball in the New Age as a pro -lifer

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So the whole thing about burning children in the fire didn't compute but but then when he got to do not use

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Divination that's that was my whole wheelhouse by that point in the New Age, I was known for these little angel cards and And and then it said do not interpret signs and omens.

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That was what I taught and did every day I even had a book on it and then it said do not practice mediumship

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Which is another thing that gotten into and that I was teaching and writing about so these three things do not practice divination

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Interpret signs and omens or mediumship, but the kicker Melissa was the bottom part of Deuteronomy 18 10 through 12, it says anyone who does these things is a detestable abomination to God and It was like a sword went through my heart because I up until that point

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I thought I was doing God's work by helping comforting grieving people and and to find out that no

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It wasn't the the practices are condemned. Of course, we know that they're condemned in the Old and the New Testament But but the people doing it are condemned, right?

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I just I couldn't believe what I was reading and that and that since I was raised

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KJV and I had I had gotten an NKJV and that was an NLT.

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I was reading out of And I think that really helped me. I really think the KJV was a stumbling block for me.

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I still read KJV I actually do the Lord's Prayer in KJV and Psalm 23.

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It sounds best in KJV to me But I just think the old archaic Elizabethan at language was a stumbling block for me growing up and and to finally see

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God's Word in a more of a modern translation, even though I don't like the NLT anymore.

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I think it's too liberal, yeah, but I needed it at that point and and so I After I read that and realized oh,

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I am a sinner Boom that's that's what I needed age 59. I'm a senior citizen.

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I finally realized I'm a sinner that's when I I got on the floor and I was crying my my eyes out because this

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I was horrified horrified that I had passed along this deception to so many people and I prayed for all the people that had received my teaching

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I do every day still and I prayed please Lord forgive me and I don't know what

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I'm doing. Obviously Please take over my life. So I repented and and gave my life to Jesus as my

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Lord and Savior that day of September 2017 and Then the sanctification in the process began in the spiritual warfare

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Of course all those so -called angels of new age suddenly became the way I saw him I realized oh, those are those are that's

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Satan masquerading as an angel of light with his fallen angels and all the spiritual warfare happened and yeah

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It's been Right, I mean it's a miracle it is absolutely I mean all those healing so -called miracles

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I grew up with as a Christian scientist There are nothing on salvation. Yeah, that's the miracle.

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Yeah okay, so I want to dive in a little deeper here and get at some of the like teachings that are found in new age and Mysticism.

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I really appreciate you sharing that testimony with me. I think One thing

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I do want to say before we get into the diving deep is I I know You've made statements in other interviews that you wish you hadn't gone continued being a public figure

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I I have to say though. Ah, and I agree you shouldn't have but I love the fact that we can see that and see you

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Where you are today and how much you're speaking out against all of that it's an it's a way to compare and I always think of how we just have no examples of Not I mean we are now more days it's becoming more and more but we don't have very many examples of seeing that visually somebody coming out of the spiritism and mysticism and false teaching and Repenting of it turning from it.

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Not only just turning you you said you've tried to Cancel all your books or stuff like that and then going on and publicly

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Having to deal with I Want to say persecution like we would think of persecution, but I'm sure verbal you had a lot of backlash when you

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Started speaking out about it. I saw some videos from other new agers Who were even?

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blaming your husband saying that you went into the darkness and things like this and I was just like No, she saw the real light.

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She saw Jesus, you know She actually experienced the

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Holy Spirit and he transformed her But so I thought

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I just wanted to encourage you and just say it is a blessing to really see that I'm so glad God is using you and I hope he continues to use you not just bring out people from new age but people like who believe the same type who have that same type of philosophy or worldview where they

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Think that yes, they're made in the image of God and they're connected, but that means like you said, they're not sinners like somehow they're separated from their flesh and there's a

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Spiritual connection to the divine in which they can then control the divine or control their future

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And this is the connection I see between All new age and NAR charismatic and even some continuations believing that they can

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Somehow change the future or So, I mean just to add a little bit

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I see it coming into the purpose -driven Churches as well. It's a way of Your usurping

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God's sovereignty So that you have control over your life whether that be healing whether that be knowledge whether that be

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You're finding your purpose Same type of philosophy and presupposition is behind that that your spirits connected to you

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You call it and in the NAR. It's the it's Holy Spirit in Age, it's the divine you know in regular purpose -driven, it's just God but That is still

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This is why I feel like there's a connection a straight line to witchcraft a slippery slope to it

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It's that spiritualism. So can you tell me a bit about the New Age idea of?

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Spirit being spiritual. What is spiritualism in? Yeah Yeah, you'll hear

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New Agers say I'm spiritual not religious and it just it makes me cringe when

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I hear people put down Religion because Christianity is a religion and I'm a Christian.

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I follow Christ So I know what they mean and in I'm sure you probably get this backlash to Melissa being called a

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Pharisee or a legalist Hey, we're the first I'm speaking for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong

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We're the first to say we're not saved by our works we're saved by God's grace and mercy through our faith in Jesus Christ and Even that faith is not a work on our part.

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That's something that God Regenerated in us. That's it's all God. It's a hundred percent

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God And so those who backlash against me, I I have empathy for them because I I don't think

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I would have been blatantly Making videos against people who left the

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New Age. Maybe I would have I don't know but It's it's second Corinthians talks about that the

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God of this world, you know puts a veil over people and that the the The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing that was me for most of my life

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So I have empathy for those who do not understand her who cannot understand that. It's it's

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Jesus That's why I left the New Age. It's all Jesus. That's all it's not and they have all their theories

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MK ultra and my husband and you know, just menopause, even though I was 59 and way past menopause and but the the spiritism

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Is all about the self the New Age is completely narcissistic self prideful driven

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So it really consists and this is this is over 20 years of touring giving

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New Age workshops That is where I'm speaking from and being one myself The new that many people attracted to the

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New Age have history or a background of some sort of trauma You know parental divorce or some illness or accident or just something happened

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Can I just say that that is becoming a very hot topic in the seeker sensitive purpose -driven churches?

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It's it's huge the trauma and psychology in it. Yeah Yeah, yeah, and you know, my background is psychology.

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So and I don't believe in psychology anymore because that's self -driven I believe in biblical counselor for one about that because You're bringing on that one

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Yeah, well biblical counseling. I'm a big fan of as long as it's true biblical counseling and not right conflated with New Age But so the the

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New Age always points to yourself as does Seeger sensitive And then

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AR word of faith always points to you and makes you the center of the universe. So you're an idol a lover of self as the

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Bible says at the end times and And so it it's this since since these trauma survivors

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Felt like they couldn't trust their parents. I mean, that's a lot of it or they couldn't trust other people

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They start to only rely on themselves and for a lot of us in the New Age myself in the past we didn't know who

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God was so in the New Age God is called source or the universe and You you don't have a personal relationship with energy or the universe

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Now it's a confusion because God created the universe and so it really is

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Romans 125 we're we're serving the creature instead of the Creator and the the

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New Age is very connected with wanting to control the future to Manifest to law of attraction vision boards, which one woman says is from Habakkuk 2 2.

34:25

It's not that's a vision that the minor prophet Habakkuk had but the point is that that desire to control and predict and plan and manifest is because I'm not knowing

34:37

God and For me the first lesson on my plate coming out of the New Age was learning how who

34:43

God was learning his attributes by studying the Bible every single day and learning to trust in the

34:50

Lord my life versus Proverbs 3 verses 5 through 6 and And I You have to learn who

34:58

God is to trust in him If you don't know God, how can you trust in him? And how do you know God until you start to read the

35:04

Bible, but in the New Age? They keep saying that the Bible is corrupt that Constantine and the

35:10

Roman Catholic Church took out these secret Secretly took out these books that were found at Qumran the

35:15

Dead Sea Scrolls however, they've never actually read those books if they did they would see that they're just they're there we know that they're pseudo do to do to Canonical that they're written like two centuries after the last

35:30

Apostle physically died yeah, and and then they they've stamped his name or her name on it and they the

35:37

New Agers are Romanticize those books and convince their the secret truth and so to have a

35:44

New Ager read the Bible and to Understand the gospel that we are sinners that needs

35:51

God's hand But we as saved people were commanded to share the gospel with all nations and New Agers will get offended

36:00

If someone's listening right now, who's got a loved one in the New Age, they will get mad at you They will get offended.

36:05

I got mad at my brother when he would share the gospel but God's Word does not return void and We have to share the gospel

36:13

So the New Agers are in are in this very lonely position of believing that it's it's just them

36:22

Creating everything you're taught in the New Age that your every thought creates your reality and what a burden that is to carry

36:29

You're put on this burden that you can't be around anything negative. You can't watch the news listen to the news

36:36

You can't have any friends that are Christians because they're too negative Just these rules in the

36:42

New Age that are so fundamentalist Yeah charismatic to yes, yeah

36:51

This yeah, you you have to distance yourself or ghost anyone that you believe is toxic and you if you have any negative thought then

37:00

It's you have created you it's your fault that you're sick or had an accident or something bad happen to you

37:07

You you attracted this with your negative thoughts very much like Job's friends, right?

37:15

Yes, and Yeah, and then the paranormal experiences are encouraged in the

37:21

New Age And you take classes. I took psychic development classes, then I ended up teaching them and The devil and his minions are very happy to mimic

37:33

Masquerade as an angel of light and so you start to believe that you are interacting with these

37:39

Very high level beings and people in the New Age. They place meaning on Everything everything is a sign

37:48

Everything is a message There's if you happen to seeing repeating number patterns, that's a message from God For you.

37:57

Yeah omens. It's it's a it's always about that personal private special revelation That you are getting because you're special and you mentioned

38:07

The purpose to the purpose driven life the New Age is all about the purpose to the what's my life purpose?

38:13

What's my life for is an obsessive question that you hear in the New Age and and the answer they always

38:19

I mean There's it's coming from a benevolent place because the New Agers I met all want to help others and they believe that they

38:27

Single -handedly are going to save the world They literally believe that and it's taught in the New Age handbook called a course in miracles

38:34

Really was popularized by Marianne Williamson. Yeah The presidential candidate that's a in.

38:41

Okay. I'm gonna have to read that book I don't know. No, do not know Research And I want to do that because This is a tangent.

38:54

I want to go back to back to spiritual spiritism, but um the if -gathering

39:00

Have you heard of the if -gathering? I've heard of the if -gathering. I haven't researched it though. Yeah, so They just had their 10 -year anniversary and Jenny Allen announced that Next year and replace kind of of the typical if -gathering which is a conference for women

39:17

They are broadening it is now a It's called gather 25 where all

39:25

The global church. Well, we'll gather now if you know anything about Okay, so the if -gatherings purpose is to change the world her motivation for the very beginning received from a small voice

39:40

That she says was from heaven Was to start it told her to equip a generation

39:48

To start the if -gathering and the goal was to change the world. That's their main purpose

39:54

This is why then you see connections with be the bridge Do not touch that with a 10 -foot pole be the bridge is critical race theory through and through and then other things like she includes psychology and psychotherapists in She gives them a platform and the whole thing again.

40:14

It's about changing the world and now here it is. She's gone Egalitarian with with the conference and It is going to be the whole world

40:28

Global gathering and the purpose I'm Imagining is the same because she says that they're gonna do a couple things.

40:35

They're going to worship pray Repent and commissioned they want a commission to go out

40:41

And and tell people make Jesus known but to change the world it's it is so I've that connection between the

40:49

New Age and this idea of a Kind of social which is would you say there's a lot of social justice fighters in New Age Oh, yeah

41:03

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean it's very Ecumenism in the New Age as well as the social justice except for you

41:16

Yeah, they kicked me yeah, yeah you they accept everyone except for actually evangelical Christians Bible believing

41:22

Christians are not allowed but everyone else is allowed and Yes, it's interesting that you mentioned that she heard a still small voice.

41:30

That's always the beginning of trouble and And you have so this is where we always have to point to first John for the test of the

41:40

Spirit and the test of spirit, of course, it was written for Gnostics because they were saying that Jesus only rose spiritually not bodily.

41:49

So he specifically says that but is the the application for today is still that if someone or something is not

41:58

Aligning with the Bible like Acts 17 11 the Bereans then this is not the

42:04

Spirit of God this is a false prophecy and It's just so important for everyone to know their

42:11

Bible now when I grew up in the 60s I I lived on a very long street in and I grew up in Southern, California before it was all liberal and everything and Everyone in our neighborhood would go to church

42:23

There was one family that went to synagogue who next door but the point was that it was just on Sundays No stores were open.

42:31

You you couldn't even get gasoline in America on a Sunday It was just everything was about going to church and then you go to grandma's afterwards for a meal that was that was the

42:41

Sundays and nowadays that you can't tell Sunday from a

42:46

Monday in America, it's just the same and People are feeling proud of themselves for watching an online sermon instead of Gathering for fellowship as we are exhorted to do

42:58

We have to read the Bible. There's just no way around it We need that biblical worldview, but what

43:04

Jenny is talking about is dominionism, isn't it? So they they will they believe that they want to make the world a better place and then

43:11

Jesus will return Which is not what the Bible says at all You won't mention talk about in times in that way except for that Yeah, well this newer the gather 25 was brought on because she received a dream.

43:25

So, okay Yeah, I was the same way, you know my original cards the and this is what

43:33

I was best known for these heretical blasphemous divination cards, they were called angel cards that the they were initiated by a dream that I had and I thought it was my grandmother

43:45

Pearl. It was such a realistic dream I thought my grandma pearl was telling me to go study

43:50

Pythagoras and that led me to studying Egyptian hermeticism and numerology and tarot

43:57

And that led to me to create my own deck of cards And I I always said they were safe because they don't have any pentagrams or devils on them.

44:05

It's all positive Happy happy happy sugar -coated Divination but yet it was still divination, but it just like with her.

44:13

It was a dream. That's so dangerous Yeah, if we have to compare everything to Scripture. Yeah well

44:18

I I have huge red flags when you were receiving some kind of dream and then questioning about what when

44:25

God If Jesus comes back if he's gonna be happy with the church and then going out and try to make the church do what it's supposed

44:33

To do her way instead of Christ's way, but that's a whole nother topic She's she's she's giving commissions.

44:41

That's crazy. And and I just don't want to say It's a woman do gathering the global church.

44:49

That should be a red flag right there. Yeah, right Yeah, what chapter revelation is that?

44:59

About so you mentioned about you receiving these visions and you receiving this and and and and look it produced something for you that what that was

45:08

Other people thought it was beneficial It was very popular the whole world probably not the whole world

45:15

But the world ended up liking it they accepted it kind of like, you know gather 25 is gonna be accepted

45:23

And your they were tarot cards or you called them angel cards, right They were yeah, they were angel cards based on true cards

45:31

So one of the things that I'm always curious about is do new agers who are receiving these

45:41

Kind of experiences or these voices or having these mystical

45:49

Intuitions or anything like that there's obviously no checking of any spirit because you're believing I Guess that the divine is helping you in some way, right?

45:59

Do they actually it's it Do they believe in demons in me? I mean you talking to angels, but do they believe in demons do they well

46:09

It's so it's so Illogical and here's what they believe they believe that that this world is heaven on earth

46:18

This is the only heaven and that there's the only hell and it's what you make of it If you're negative you're in hell if you're positive you're in heaven here, but they do believe that Yeah Yeah, and they do.

46:31

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely know the Bible project. Yeah, and NT Wright's and Heizer's influence on them also, but they do believe in near -death experiences, but the

46:42

New Age believes that they're that the Christian teachings in the Bible about the devil unclean spirits hell were a manipulative add -on

46:55

From the Roman Catholic Church in Constantine to manipulate people in order to get control and money.

47:01

That's the New Age belief Hey, and that they they yeah, they believe that the crucifixion never happened that it was a

47:12

Appropriation of the Babylonian Sumerian Egyptian beliefs in a Sun God like Osiris who you know, and And all that so they they don't believe in in anything that we do about the gospel

47:27

They only believe in God is love. That's they pick out that verse and ask and it shall be given

47:32

You know just what they call the happy parts and so they don't believe in demons at all

47:38

They believe in negative energy So the the prayers of protection like they use sage all the time, which they've appropriated from Native American spirituality

47:48

They use sage to ward away negative energy and there is this belief in negative entities

47:55

But they're not demons. They're dead people who have not not not

48:01

Properly been processed. So they're angry that they're dead and they don't know they're dead. So it's just this weird

48:07

Belief system that doesn't include what the Bible teaches Okay, can the dead people?

48:14

Influence your life Is it kind of like a Ghostbusters type thing like they can do things in your house you could have a

48:22

Wouldn't be a demonic spirit Spirit in your house, but it would be a ghost

48:27

I guess in your house Type of thinking. Yeah, that's it. That's it. It's similar.

48:32

Yeah, so the New Agers believe that deceased people who've not been properly processed will

48:39

Not haunt you they don't use words or they don't use the word ghost But just can bother you and they even believe that the the deceased people spirits can go into your body and hide

48:50

Because they're trying to hide for they're afraid to go to heaven or hell not hell. They don't believe in hell

48:55

They're just afraid so they go into your body to your fingertips and these modern deliverance ministries teach the same thing

49:01

By the way, the demons can go to your fingertips Yeah In the new in the

49:09

New Age it was called spirit releasement therapy and this was something I was big into I did it in Almost every workshop and I wrote about it in several of my books

49:18

So spirit releasement therapy was this belief that we again? It's all me centered so I can call on Archangel Michael he's big in the

49:27

New Age not the biblical Archangel Michael that we see in Daniel Jude and Revelation, but this

49:33

More of a conflated Roman Catholic type of belief that Michaels our personal protector and And so this belief is that each

49:44

New Ager can ask Archangel Michael to come escort away the deceased people to whatever heaven is and and put him in a net of light like a fishing net and just Capture that dead person and take them away kicking and screaming

50:01

To the afterlife and it's just a it's the New Age is very delusional and dissociated

50:07

But it's also pretty coherent I mean most people believe the same thing in the New Age, even though there's different kind of factions almost different denominations in the

50:17

New Age There's there's those who are into the very dark darkest parts like Wicca and witchcraft and Satanism And then there's those

50:25

I was more on the spectrum. That's more of fantasy where we were into fairies and unicorns and mermaids and angels and You know, it was considered the lighter part of New Age, but we were all in I mean we this we really believed all of this

50:41

Did you ever watch Sid Roth when you were? New Age until I I was not even aware of him

50:49

I did not even know anything about Sid Roth until I was saved because that falls into the fantasy

50:55

Definitely. I just find it. Yeah, so fascinating the similarities between New Age and the

51:05

NAR and but you did say that So so a New Ager wouldn't believe that they had like a demon they were demon possessed, but they could be

51:16

It's a spirit Dead spirit could be hindering them or Preventing them from doing what they want or or obstruct them in some way.

51:27

Okay Yes. Yeah, so it's the same. It's again the same type of worldview same type of philosophy just different names or a

51:38

Just a minor minor change Yeah, and well here's here's here's here's why

51:46

I mean It's so similar when I was saved I just kind of naively expected to find all these churches that were

51:54

Bible based and there are praise the Lord There's a lot of Bible based churches and faithful pastors But I kept seeing a lot of churches that were like the mind -body spirit festivals that I used to lecture at Like Bethel Redding for instance

52:07

And I was just blown away that they were calling psychics prophets when it was nothing like the biblical prophets

52:13

But the what I really believe it goes to 2nd Timothy 315 that all scripture is

52:18

God -breathed, right So all scriptures God breathes, but the counterfeit is all devil -breathed and it's the same author or all these false teachings

52:29

Exact same author. So, of course, it's similar. Yeah, and and like you said that it's always seen as an

52:37

Angel of light or it's there to help you and and guide you in some way Wow Okay, so Could you for those people who don't know or listening to this?

52:47

What's the difference really between we understand spiritualism is a connection between this idea that you can have a your spiritual?

52:55

Part of you can be connected to the divine and however that plays out in multiple ways

53:02

But what's the difference between spiritualism and mysticism? And then what's what is mysticism?

53:08

A Mysticism is the obsession with experiences that seem to be out of the ordinary

53:16

I really believe it's people who are bored with the Bible or don't know the Bible and they take their experiences as their

53:23

Bible and That was my life in the New Age. We were all about let's let's go more more more

53:30

Let's I sound like Heidi Baker right there more Is we we wanted to see the angels we wanted to do past life regressions to the beginning of the creation of earth

53:41

We wanted to go farther and farther in our now I know New Age delusions, but we were just at the bottom line.

53:48

We were truth seekers We were looking for the ultimate secret the ultimate truth and the only truth we can find is right here

53:57

Yeah in God's Word. Yep. It's it's and that Bible had been on my shelf my whole life

54:02

That was a sad part When I finally started reading the Bible it Even before I was saved years before I was saved it resonated and I I kept wanting to read the whole

54:13

Bible But something would prevent me, you know, I guess I wonder what that something was And when

54:18

I finally read the whole Bible, that's when God took the scales off my eyes So what do you think is the motivating factor behind?

54:26

Trying to gain some kind of knowledge through your experience. What why is it that we're so More inclined especially as women to go in that direction instead of scripture

54:39

Yeah, let's ask our ancestor Eve Why she was promised secret wisdom for defying

54:45

God I mean, I really it's our fallen nature, isn't it? Just and it's that fleshly desire to be special by having secret hidden wisdom or the private special revelation

54:55

God told me Like we had to stop that we have to take our eyes off ourselves and keep our eyes on Jesus, right?

55:02

I like to pose it this way It's it's sometimes at least for me when that when

55:09

I had that I wasn't really big into the whole Trying to receive experiences.

55:15

I did try to read omens Several times because I wanted, you know direction

55:20

I wanted to you know, be faithful and obey But I wanted it done my way and was hoping

55:28

God would do it my way And give me a yes, that's the way to go so but for me

55:34

I one of the things that really opened my eyes was one learning about like you said the attributes of God, but Like so I wanted to feel that God was approved of me and Every experience was either a good one or a bad one

55:57

And then I always judged my spiritual relation with God my

56:04

I could even go so far as my Justification by whether God was blessing me or whether you know

56:11

God wasn't but I'm taking something away or I was going through trials So then this was you know,

56:16

God was displeased with me And so there was always a high to try and feel the pleasure

56:23

Or the approval of God and and to me sometimes I think the speaking in tongues the

56:31

You know having that experience looking for those loving experiences, especially when you're going in work, so this was the big one the worship time and the music and feeling that just Emotionalism that I wanted to cry and just feeling such peace

56:48

I was judging that as in okay You had the Holy Spirit's with me, but then also God is pleased with me

56:54

Right instead of realizing God's pleased with me not because of that experience but because of Jesus Christ Something that happened 2 ,000 years ago on my behalf

57:05

I'm clothed in his righteousness not my own and so that once I realized that and That I had been given one of the greatest gifts the

57:16

Holy Spirit, you know to guide me Throughout the day and that God was sovereign and in the day -by -day things

57:25

I was just to be faithful And that is what pleased that was the other thing to not hearing the law of God To understand that that those are what pleases him.

57:36

So there was never a third use of the law You know, they're telling you how to be to be sanctified telling you

57:42

What God's will is for you? It was always go find that purpose, you know go conquer the world

57:52

And it drew me away from my home instead of realizing. Oh, I should be focused here. So anyway, but um so How do you see?

58:03

Mysticism then I mean we kind of touched on it already entering the church. Where do you see it really entering?

58:10

Yeah Well Unfortunately, I see a lot of Trojan horses that the devil's using to get the new age into the church and what you just mentioned is deeply troubling because The devil, of course hates the family system that God designed and will try to get the mother

58:28

To focus away from the family and plant ambition in our hearts so that's part of our fallen nature to that we have to beware of but Some of the big forms of mysticism coming to the church are the channeled books that are supposed to be

58:42

Christian and they're not and They include of course Jesus calling I have it's the the author's past But I'm not going to let up on what she did before she passed because I don't see any record of her

58:54

Repenting or renouncing that she was in fact, let me show you this Melissa. Oh, I only have these for research purposes

59:09

So here's the 2004 edition the original edition of Jesus calling in this edition

59:16

Sarah Young claimed that she was inspired by this book God calling Which is an occultic

59:23

Book a metaphysical book that is similar to the modern Neil Donald Walsh conversations with God book.

59:30

It's not a Christian book. It's not God talking because it contradicts scripture So Sarah Young said she

59:37

She didn't get she basically was in essence saying that the Bible wasn't enough

59:42

She wanted to go outside of scripture which is the danger and she wanted to get messages herself from Jesus and share them and and so The Christian community rightly so got very upset that she said that she was inspired by a metaphysical occultic book

59:57

And so the next printing They took that out and they keep changing the book got

01:00:04

Jesus calling because Christians are speaking out against what she puts in there that contradicts scripture and It's just there's this this is encouraging people to transchannel a voice and To violate first Timothy for our first John for the test of the

01:00:24

Spirit There's a similar book about brother Lawrence that's now become popular and unfortunately and I love this woman

01:00:31

And I'm not speaking out against her I pray that she will see this video and perhaps have another take on it as Johnny Erickson Tata Yeah, she she has a new book out practicing the presence of Jesus and it's based on practicing the presence of God by brother

01:00:49

Lawrence who is another he was a Roman Catholic monk mystic who? Was all about feeling that presence of God and this is about contemplative so -called contemplative prayer

01:01:02

It's not true biblical prayer. It's It's Eastern mystic type of meditation not the biblical meditation that you see

01:01:13

The Hebrew word is Haga in Joshua 1 and Psalm 1 where you meditate on the law you meditate on the

01:01:20

Bible and Haga actually means mutter or Utter out loud, so you're supposed to Meditate on the word while speaking it kind of under your breath is what the biblical meditation is

01:01:31

But the the contemplative medicine mysticism where you're supposed to sit and listen for God's voice

01:01:38

So dangerous that's in the church. I mean This is the devil's ploy to get us to take our eyes off of Really who

01:01:47

Jesus is and put our own invented Jesus in front of us? Yeah, amen to that because that is definitely

01:01:55

I in The last couple episodes or the whole season and critiquing the if gathering

01:02:01

I dived into their ministry I dived into their books. They have a book called Enjoying Jesus in which they promote brother

01:02:09

Lauren Lawrence and other Christian six and not only that the which

01:02:15

I found this fascinating the the This he's a

01:02:23

Psychotherapist he has a ministry of his own Kurt Topps and it's about being known. He he he does contemplative prayer.

01:02:30

He Encourages it to the women as a way to fill the presence of the

01:02:36

Lord and the God is always Pleased with you and you're to meditate sit in that quietness.

01:02:45

I did an episode where I was comparing Marsha Montenegro talking about contemplative prayer and the

01:02:52

Leaving your mind and quieting all thoughts and then receiving this presence and he's basically reiterating the same exact thing

01:03:02

So it is it is pervade prevalent. What's the word?

01:03:08

Prevalent. Yeah prevalent. Yeah, it is everywhere. Yeah Yeah along with Lectio Divina that's another mystical practice you see in some churches where you're supposed to look at a

01:03:19

Bible verse and then listen for more information about that Bible verse listen for Application now the the

01:03:26

Holy Spirit the author of the Bible does illuminate passages to convict us Teach us remind us of Jesus teaching that's biblical

01:03:34

But the Lectio Divina the contemplative prayer the whole mysticism wants to go outside of the

01:03:41

Bible and again make us the heroes of the story, yeah, and We don't need that Yeah, if I want to just say one of my favorite

01:03:50

Bible theologians, he's passed now his name Warren Weir's be W I E R S B E and he he wrote the

01:03:59

B series He's got a Weir's B study Bible that I really like he he's the one of the few solid pastors and and Phil Johnson speaks highly of him knew him before he or knew of him before he passed in Oh, yeah knew him and actually said that Warren Weir's be introduced

01:04:17

Phil Johnson to a W Pink's work Okay, so he's you know, yeah, he's safe.

01:04:23

This is my point and Warren Weir's be he has application in his writings if people want application

01:04:29

I would Highly recommend Weir's B's work because it's he compares everything to scripture with his application

01:04:36

Mmm, and he shows you where it is in the Bible. So it's it's it's a it's the narrow gate and we have to be so careful because a lot of these mystical practices want to point us to the broad road of Destruction.

01:04:50

Yeah. Yeah So why is this? I'm assuming and you could correct me.

01:04:57

It's a new age movement mostly a Filled with women. Is this a typical? Drawing to women, especially

01:05:05

Well, it's it was in my workshops because of my topic was always angels or goddesses

01:05:11

But but I was touring with other New Age authors So we would do this thing called the whole life

01:05:17

Expo and in every in convention centers around North America And I am one of the guys

01:05:23

I toured with named Greg Braden who builds himself as a scientist and So his workshop would be filled with men going to his pseudoscience,

01:05:35

I'm sorry Greg, it's not science It's he's all about heart heart math. And you know again that whole law of attraction use your thoughts quantum

01:05:43

Him and Deepak Chopra always say it's quantum physics It proves what they're teaching, you know that our thoughts create our reality, but his workshops were filled with men my experience in my workshops is it was 95 % women and then the rest were

01:05:59

Husbands who were dragged along to the workshop. Okay. All right, so, um How easy then as a woman who's say she's raised up in the typical evangelical

01:06:11

Church Typical like I like I was purpose -driven and secret sensitive

01:06:18

Church has started to read, you know, Sarah Young and Then moving on to doing her own automatic writing doing her own

01:06:30

Contemplative prayer Joining places like the if gathering which is huge in in my sphere and Just having that that type of influence

01:06:45

I'm starting to see to Within the women's ministry and and I know personally of individuals who use crystals

01:06:55

Yoga is not a big deal could you talk a little bit about yoga because I know some people who will probably be listening to this and Try to help them understand don't touch that Don't don't dive into that so you can talk a little bit about yoga and then can you go into crystals a little?

01:07:15

Sure, happy to yeah So I did yoga almost every day for over 20 years in the New Age when

01:07:21

I was saved I threw away all of my yoga paraphernalia because it is a violation of the first two

01:07:26

Commandments which are still for today Yes, Jesus fulfilled the civil dietary judicial law

01:07:33

And he he said that love God love your neighbor on on these all the law and the prophets hang

01:07:39

Meaning the moral laws ten commandments are still for today. So what are they thou shall have no other gods before me?

01:07:45

I'll show up no graven images and summarizing the first two Commandments. So yoga is a

01:07:51

Hindu worship practice It's not just stretching or exercise.

01:07:56

There's nothing wrong with stretching I stretch every day, but the Hindu practice of yoga and I actually have a video on my youtube channel of a ex

01:08:06

Hindu who was raised in the high Brahman priestly caste of India with a

01:08:11

Temple in his own house where people would do yoga. So he grew up with this He said he wouldn't touch yoga now as a

01:08:17

Christian God saved him praise the Lord But every every pose is the word yoga means yoke to Shiva or Brahma the creator

01:08:27

God of Hinduism, it's a polytheistic religion with something like 30 million deities and they're all aspects and manifestations of the their one

01:08:37

God Shiva And and so you're honoring and giving glory with your body to Shiva With these different asanas or poses, for example every yoga series including so -called holy yoga includes the

01:08:54

Sun Salutation series and that should give us pause that it's Sun salutation, right?

01:08:59

But there's a pose in there called warrior pose warrior one two and three where you have your arms

01:09:05

Perfectly out it has to be exact where the teacher will come correct you so it's not just casual stretching

01:09:12

It is a precise movement. And so it's an asana, which means pose in the

01:09:17

Hindu language of Sanskrit it's the pose of Virabhadras who is a he he was the one who killed on revenge.

01:09:27

He killed one of Shiva's Who there is this long murder story is the bottom line he killed and and rescued

01:09:35

Ganesh who became the elephant -headed deity that you see on a lot of yoga t -shirts and And so the warrior pose of the

01:09:43

Sun salutation series is you making your body into a graven image of Virabhadras to Reenact the murder scene.

01:09:50

Oh my good and everyone. Yeah, right And that's that's just one of there's thousands of yoga poses that I knew.

01:09:58

I knew all the sins Sanskrit names I used to lecture a Kripalu the one of the major yoga teaching centers of America and one of my best friends owned a

01:10:07

Big yoga studio. I was really in the yoga community and I just want to say that and I'm not being legalistic or pharisaical

01:10:15

I promise you I'm going to show you how that when people say that it's like the meat that Paul said was redeemed

01:10:21

That was prayed over in the pagan temple. They say well yoga is like that. I have Christian freedom Well, we don't have

01:10:27

Christian freedom to sin right Galatians makes that very clear Okay, but so the analogy of the meat prayed over in the temple

01:10:36

Is that yoga is the pagan temple not the meat? Yoga is the pagan prayers in that temple not the meat

01:10:44

It's like taking a Ouija Ouija board and putting you Bible verses on a Ouija board and saying it's it's a

01:10:50

Christian Holy Ouija board. You can't redeem yoga or a Ouija board. You just can't we have to stretch

01:10:56

I think it's part of our our health But what I recommend is physical therapy stretches so you can find the charts and the videos online for free

01:11:06

Just do that like go to a doorway and put your arms out and lean You know to stretch or just put a towel on the floor and stretch while you're watching

01:11:14

TV Just yeah stretch, but do not do the yoga poses. Yeah, and people will say to me that Well, they'll say to me.

01:11:23

Well, God knows my heart He knows I'm not worshiping Hindu deities and I say yeah, you should be afraid that God knows your heart

01:11:29

He knows you're being rebellious right now. Yeah So basically just so I for my understanding you're going to a yoga class

01:11:38

You're doing poses that tell a story that are in line with their theology, right?

01:11:44

They're basically from the Vedas Yeah, okay. So you are participating in some way and their theology by poses now.

01:11:52

Is there a Do they say there's some kind of spiritual connection? Do you get in connect?

01:11:58

Supposedly with we know it's a demon it's a false God, but yeah Supposedly you're connected or gain some kind of power from doing it

01:12:10

There's there's some talk about that it's more like you're pleasing those deities It's a glorifying and of course, we know the

01:12:18

Bible says that with our bodies we're in everything we do We are to give all we are to glorify

01:12:23

God with our bodies And how is it glorifying God with our bodies to twist our body into a shape of a

01:12:29

Hindu? Deity, it's just not it's impossible. There's no such thing as holy yoga that's an oxymoron emphasis on moron actually if you research it and These are money -making ventures.

01:12:41

There's so much money in the yoga industry. So like acts 19 Demetrius the silversmith is angry when

01:12:48

Paul's teaching the gospel and nobody's buying his goddess statues anymore of Artemis Remember, the yoga teachers are so angry when

01:12:56

I say this because it takes money out of their pocketbook But it's ill -gotten gain. They should we we need to trust

01:13:02

God for our provision not go behind his you can't go behind God's back but you know not violate his commandments to try to get provision.

01:13:10

It will never work out Yeah, no, then it really makes me wonder about these Christian churches who are literally hosting what they call

01:13:18

Christian yoga classes Okay, it's like you can't miss the two You either have a can't it's an oxymoron, right or you have a yoga class because you're literally putting

01:13:29

God next to An idol and yeah, yeah, and there's no other there's no other sport that that puts holy in front of it

01:13:37

So there's no holy swimming classes or holy baseball. It's they know deep down because God's law is written on our heart

01:13:43

They know that they're being rebellious So they try to plaster on the word holy to try to make it sanctified you see this with witches, too

01:13:51

They call themselves Christian witches and Christian astrologers and Christian Enneagram and all these pagan practices

01:13:57

You can't Christian eyes paganism. You just can't their opposites We can't drink of the cup of the demons and the cup of the

01:14:05

Lord We can't sit at the table of the demons and the table of the Lord. They cannot mesh together to opposite Yeah worldviews you can't yeah, it's like the same with the

01:14:18

Gospel centered Enneagram you you really just can't oh, you can't do that either And I'd love to get back on to that with you or get into that with you.

01:14:27

But our time is Our time is wrapping up. Um Well, could you talk a little bit before we go next couple minutes about crystals too because I know some people yeah crystals

01:14:40

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so crystals it's interesting crystals are in the Bible obviously from Genesis to Revelation God made them

01:14:47

They're beautiful. They can even be used for watches and some medical devices and computers So crystals themselves are

01:14:53

I believe spiritually neutral But in the New Age and unfortunately in some progressive churches, they have become an idol and what's an idol anything that you?

01:15:03

Believe has power apart from God or magical power same with essential oils There's distilled oils in the

01:15:09

Bible But when you believe that crystals or oils are the key to your health your manifesting your love life

01:15:16

You've made it into an idol. And what does it say in Revelation 21 and 22 about idolaters?

01:15:22

It says they will be kept outside of the new heaven. They will be put into the lake of fire So this is serious stuff

01:15:28

We have to check our heart pray for the Holy Spirit's discernment read our Bibles and make sure that we don't have these idols

01:15:35

Yeah, amen to that. Yep we just need to trust in and God and sovereignty and everything that he's giving you the

01:15:44

Holy Spirit to Look if you have to go through health issues, God can heal you if you pray, but he

01:15:52

Presents to what was it Job said? That why should

01:15:57

I accept what is good from God and not accept the evil as well?

01:16:03

The bad as well as good God God Disciplines his children through trials and tribulations, right along with good things and we should

01:16:13

Trying to avoid those is like trying to thumb your nose at God, really? Well Before we close there's one more question since we've talked about Spirituality mysticism even a little bit of witchcraft and the tools that are used in that And you coming out of it now that you've come out of all this do you see a difference between the

01:16:38

NA spirituality and true biblical spirituality, what is true biblical spirit spirituality,

01:16:48

I Think true biblical spirituality is trying to draw closer and closer to our co -equal co -eternal

01:16:55

God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and you know We we have limits in this world we have three things going against us our flesh the devil and the world and just to continuously be trying to mortify our our sinful nature

01:17:12

Through Christ's strength instead of our own strength with with spirituality outside of that It's trying to do it in your own strength, which will never work

01:17:22

Yeah, that's beautiful. And and and Christ is sufficient to equip us Scripture It is sufficient

01:17:31

You want to know how to? Face everything that comes your way is why

01:17:37

I do my podcast and why it's titled thoroughly equipped because Scripture early equips you for every good work for everything

01:17:46

Doreen Thank you It's such a blessing to get meet you get to know you and there was so many questions

01:17:56

Would you mind coming back on it some other time? I would I would love to I would love to Melissa you're fascinating to talk with I would love to learn about the any though I highly suggest people watch the

01:18:09

American Gospel They did a conference on the Enneagram. I got to talk.

01:18:15

I got to interview. Dr. Ren cherry on the Enneagram Fantastic, but I would love to talk to you too about the

01:18:22

Enneagram and just some other things that I see That are just connected with with spiritism and in all of it

01:18:31

Especially in ministry. Yeah, so I really really appreciate all that you've been through and all that God has brought you out of it is

01:18:41

God's grace and it is a grace to to me to be able to watch it and Help Other people know about you and your ministry, so I pray the

01:18:54

Lord continues to bless your ministry and Strengthen you to continue doing what you're doing speaking out.

01:19:01

It's needed It is so needed as it's coming into the more popular you would just think the regular simple churches it is coming in and And Yeah, so we need to be as women starting to speak out about it and to hold to God's truth

01:19:21

Is there anything you want to say where can people reach you? Before we go.

01:19:28

Oh Well, they can reach me on Instagram under my name Dorian virtue or through my podcast my new podcast new age to new heart, which

01:19:37

I Film with two other ladies who were saved out of the new age you can reach us through new age to new heart on Instagram or on YouTube and then also the one thing

01:19:50

I just want to leave everyone with is that Bible reading daily is it needs to be in the same category as brushing our teeth and brushing our hair and getting dressed

01:19:58

It needs to be looked at as non -optional if you try to give yourself an out you you'll find an out

01:20:04

Just I really am a big believer in Bible before breakfast I know a lot of you know You have responsibilities little kids

01:20:11

But just get up a little early turn on that reading light or go in the bathroom if you need to You know, so you don't wake up your husband if that's the case

01:20:18

But just even a paragraph every single day of the Bible it sets your tone.

01:20:23

It renews your mind It's just so important for us to be in the word every single day without exception

01:20:29

Yeah, and to do it in context and to just be encouraged to study on your own

01:20:35

I mean that was a huge change in my life was actually going from you know, doing the pulling the verses and just using them like Like mystical type tool to get me through the day or in chant and chanting to myself

01:20:50

Which I think is a no. No, you don't want to do that with God's Word. Give it honor. It deserves it

01:20:57

To get to study So, thank you Thank you,

01:21:03

Melissa. God bless. Yeah Ladies thanks for listening or watching this episode of thoroughly equipped if this episode blessed you

01:21:14

Would you give it a rating or a thumbs up? And if you think thoroughly equipped is a much -needed ministry consider subscribing

01:21:21

It helps spread the word if you are interested to know more about thoroughly equipped Check out the blog or just find some other great

01:21:28

Christian resources. You can go to my website at Tt Ew work you can connect with me on Facebook and Instagram links in the description below or email me at melba toast at Tt Ew work thoroughly equipped as part of striving for eternity's

01:21:46

Christian podcast community a one -stop resource for solid Podcasts that consist you in your

01:21:52

Christian walk check that out at Christian podcast community .org I pray the

01:21:58

God of all grace grant you more and more knowledge and understanding of Jesus Christ as the

01:22:03

Holy Spirit Thoroughly equips you through his written word for every good work.