Provoked: Evangelism - Attacks From the Outside & From Within W/Dennis Sarfate & Bobby McCreery

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00:04

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

00:16

I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

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This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

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You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

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That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends, and we are teaching our children to do the same.

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God's word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

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Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel.

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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend

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Christ, we're not loving Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands.

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Hello, you are watching another episode of Provoked, and as you can see, the best part of the show isn't here today.

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My brother Zach, he's busy at home. He's got some stuff he's got to take care of, so I am here with my brothers and friends,

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Dennis Sarfate and Bobby McCreary. How are you guys? Doing great.

01:53

Thanks. Glad to be here. Actually, my first time in Apologia Studios, and glad to be back on Provoked.

02:02

Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you. I know it's both of your guys' second time. Yeah, I was on here live, but I have some big shoes to fill.

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I mean, I got to fill your big bro. My bro. I love you, Zach. Thank you for filling in for him today.

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You've been on the show, though. This would be your third time or fourth? Maybe third time. Yeah, because I know you did.

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Anyways, thank you for coming on. My pleasure. You've been promoted to stand -in host.

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My brothers from different mothers. Yeah, so we got a good show today.

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First of all, I want to just encourage you, if you haven't already, go to ApologiaStudios .com and become an

02:43

All Access member because that's how we do all that we do here at Apologia Studios, and you're just going to get blessed by the content that you will receive when you do that.

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It helps our ministry go, but also you get so much for it that it'll just be a blessing. And in a day and age where there's so much garbage on TV and online, it's just a great tool to be edified and to give gospel truth to your family.

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I feel like every time I get tempted to go now on Facebook or any type of social media,

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I'm like, I just need to go and go on to the Bonson U and do that instead because it can just make you mad.

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Yeah, there's days where I don't even turn our TV on. Maybe days in a row. There's garbage.

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It's just filth. It's garbage. I know, yeah. Everything. I know there was some weird stuff going on this week with the

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Chinese spy balloon. What did you think about that? Yeah, I don't know how

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I feel about that. I mean, we let another country's military aircraft, unmanned aircraft take surveillance of our country for days.

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I think it's very foolish. I also don't trust our government very much, so who knows the true story.

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But yeah, I'm glad they shot it down. At least they didn't let it linger any longer. Yeah, it's just crazy.

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There was one in South America, I think, too. It was a world effort, right? They're trying to take whole pictures and videos of everyone's demographic in their country and where they can attack.

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Who knows? Is this an attack effort? Are they trying to figure out how they can do it? Only Xi Jinping can answer that one.

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Yeah. How about you? Yeah, I'm kind of with Dennis. Who knows what to think about it?

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I mean, could it be something very sinister? Sure, it could. I mean, one thought

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I have about it is whatever you think about President Trump, I mean, I think he's kind of morally a reprobate, but I don't think they'd be doing that stuff if he were in office.

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I don't think we'd have the situation in Ukraine that we have if he was in office. I just think we really appear weak to the world right now.

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And so that's why we have these kind of things happening. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard, too, when you go on and you don't know what to trust when it comes to the media.

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And part of what I wanted to talk to you about is all that's going on with red state reform because I think most people that aren't following the ministry all the time and just like me,

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I'll just turn on the news, the local news. They have no idea of all the good that's actually happening right now.

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We're seeing, you know, leftist news and even some of the right -winged journalism and stuff.

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It's not, they're not covering this type of stuff. No, it's left -wing propaganda what they want to cover.

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You know, what you're seeing is a movement across the country.

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Pre -Roe v. Wade, you had states saying, we can't touch abortion because there's a standing law, which we all know it wasn't a standing law.

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But you had a lot of cowardice and a lot of really corrupt pro -life establishment type politicians that claim to be pro -life using something as an excuse and now that's gone, right?

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It's pulled out from them. So just for somebody that's kind of new into this, just kind of elaborate a little bit on that by what you mean.

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Yeah, so the pro -life establishment that goes back to even when Roe vs.

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started in 73 were put in place to end abortion but not really end it.

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You know, get paid fundraise, push back when they needed to come to a common ground.

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Hey, let's talk, let's meet in the middle type of legislation or within each state.

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And what we started to do and realized and I think Jeff was the first one to really put this together.

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I think you actually see it in Babies Are Murdered Here, Babies Are Still Murdered Here where it kind of like went off like these people aren't on our side.

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Yeah. They truly don't want to end it. Yeah. And so now you have this split. You have pro -life establishment and then you have the abolitionists which can go the other way too far, right?

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And I think that these two groups need to come and say hey listen, babies are being murdered we need to end it and not partiality to anything end it.

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Right. There's no more there's no middle ground when babies are dying. That's right. So we have 14 states and I swear they just keep coming like Ohio today called

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We Gotta Rep. Iowa now maybe Tennessee. Praise God. it's all of these people finally saying you know what enough's enough and it's

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Christian men a lot of it and a Christian woman too in Kentucky and Emily Calloway but you're seeing a transition from a pre -Roe everyone's scared of this unconstitutional court opinion to now post -Roe and now you're seeing the left try to use our tactics and do state by state and you know so you're fighting two fronts you're fighting the pro -life establishment that isn't truly pro -life and then you're fighting the pro -aborts who really don't care about life and we already know what that's like so it's a fight but I think it's a worthy one and I think it's something that we all what men and women must do brothers and sisters have to come together and fight it right amen and I think it's something too that Christians need to hear it because like I said you can turn on the

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TV and we're just seeing what they're feeding us but to know that God is really moving so mightily in this area and he's assembling his people and so much good is being done right now because it can become so discouraging as you see all this madness in our country and you know

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I know you guys are about my age and it's just this isn't the country we even grew up in you know it is just it really is so it's insane and that's why we're starting to do now around the country

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Bobby's probably very humble and he's not going to take credit for this but he's really one of the biggest reasons you know

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Josh Bice and G3 Ministries got involved with you know Jeff and Abortion Now and really put the the groundwork in Atlanta when we had that pastors meeting then it carried over to Ken Ham and the

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Creation Museum now we're doing one here in Arizona and I think you're seeing God bless the work because it's the church he's been waiting for pastors to step up to the pulpit and actually speak truth on this issue and you're seeing it go across and kind of like a mustard seed just grow and grow and grow this is a culture that hates

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God I mean I know we'll probably touch on it but we had the Grammys and we saw the unholy song holy means set apart for God right so unholy the opposite of that you see

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Satan that's the culture we're a culture of death we want to sacrifice our children on the altar of Malik and you just want to let it go and we can't as Christians we can't keep letting it go if you let it go then you're going to stand before God why didn't you do anything to save these babies

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I think there's a lot of Christians guilty of not speaking up on this issue yeah

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I was thinking about it the other day I was talking to my dad about it and we were just talking about the same thing it's really a culture of death and we despise our youth to the point of we're killing them in the womb and if they're not killed in the womb then we're injecting all sorts of stuff into them and then if that doesn't do anything we'll neuter them we'll cut off their genitals and it's just absolutely insane just the trajectory of our nation but like you said we can't just go oh it's so bad we gotta stand back and just let it go now is the time more than ever

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I believe that we have to stand up and fight and be out in the public square fighting and show our post mill right that we are our post mill we actually swear by it

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I don't know about this guy over here he's got something else to say about it but yeah I mean

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I love my post mill brethren I'm you know optimistic on mill so I think it's like that much difference between us anyway

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I think people wanna fight more about it than we need to but it really I think part of what

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Dennis was saying with this whole just like let it go thought I mean that really I think is rooted in bad eschatology pessimistic eschatology where it's like well once it gets bad enough

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Jesus will come back well I mean God has put us on his earth for such a time as this and we only have this little life that we have and we're called to be salt and light we're called to really

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I would say the great commission is a parallel statement to whatever people wanna call it whether they wanna call it dominion mandate from Genesis 1 or cultural mandate creation mandate be fruitful and multiply fill the earth and subdue it okay have dominion over it

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I mean really that's what the great commission is it's you know go and make disciples of every nation baptizing them they have a father son

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Holy Spirit teaching them to obey all that Christ commanded us and so that's what we're we're responsible to do as Christians and so I'm really what wears me out and we got on this conversation to talk about the

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Grammys and it's it's just so weird you know that the people that are lost have they give up the ability not just to reason and logic but to even be creative exactly which is something that's part of the image of God so you see

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I mean whatever this guy what's his name Sam Smith is doing the other night I mean so yeah Ozzy Osbourne did that before you know we have

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Lady Gaga now and there was Madonna before that Marilyn Manson you know so it's just a recycling of the same old stuff you see

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God's people are the ones innovating creating because we're pursuing these things for God's glory but going back to eschatology this thought that and I've even heard some people that we see as heroes of the faith say things like well

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Christians aren't called to change the world and I'll say like man I'm so sick of hearing that so if you're saying that I'm looking at you please stop you know we heard a teaching about this not long ago my children and I and when we came home it was this discussion in our house my oldest daughter said well yeah we don't change the world daddy it's

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God changes the world through us and I said yeah exactly you get it I mean we have this great gospel and we treat it like it's not a great gospel we treat it like there is no power in the gospel to change and then we watch like CNN and we go oh man

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I'm depressed and it's like so you're talking about all these 14 states where there's bills going in you're talking about all these great things that God is moving

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God is mobilizing people but the media which I would really say especially in the western culture is giving over to the devil they're never going to talk about that stuff so then why do we sit there and get all of our information from that I mean that's like a recipe for depression because we're lazy because we don't want to do the research and read so you bring a great point when people say

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Christians aren't called to change the world listen dear brothers and sisters who are telling people that western

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Christians don't need another excuse to be lazy we're lazy enough as it is already we need to be exhorted to move for Christ's sake on the earth you know so I don't know

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I guess I probably sound posh now that would go perfect hand in hand with Pastor Jeff's sermon on Sunday right about being a sluggard yeah that's if you want you want to have your teeth kicked out listen to that that was one of the most convicting sermons

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I've ever sat under and it was well needed and I think for every Christian you know it's something that we have to struggle especially like here you said in the west where we've got screens right here we've got you know

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I could go on my phone I'm like oh I need this this and this from Amazon oh it's delivered at my door you know if my kids are sick and I can't really get out of the car to take them into the grocery store

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I can have the grocery put them in bags and I pull up and I put it in my trunk we just have so much convenience here and obviously that could be used for good and God's glory but also if we don't if we're not you know being self self -discipline and exhibiting the fruit of self -control we can become very very lazy and very very used to getting just that dopamine hit you know of entertainment pleasure entertainment pleasure and yeah

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I was just talking to my son about this on the way over here if we don't practice self -control it can it can become an idol.

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Absolutely. The thing that stuck with me a few weeks ago Pastor White said

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I haven't been bored in I don't know 65 years no just kidding

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I haven't been bored in 30 years like what Christian if you're bored if you're saying you're bored then you're not doing exactly what

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God has commanded you to do yeah and I think like you said we don't need another excuse to be lazy in this country oh yeah in the west especially

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Christians yeah amen so well let's move on to Bobby your ministry if you want to give an update it's been a couple years since you've been on so if you wouldn't mind telling our listeners maybe they haven't heard our episode with you but just about your ministry how you got started and what you're doing here this weekend thanks yeah the ministry that the

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Lord's entrusted to our family is called to the end of the earth it's an evangelistic ministry we do open air preaching gospel tracks one -on -one conversations we go on college campuses to the abortion mills wherever the people are you know one update

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I will just say since the last time I was on with you guys I have a homeschool high school graduate as of last year who's now started her own business so that's that's pretty exciting and what's your business called that's my daughter

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Hannah it's new heart treasures and she's just got a I mean it's an Etsy shop and it's t -shirts and stickers and you know she's she's doing well she's a free market capitalist yeah

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I've seen a bunch of her stuff the totes and looks like she's she's got good designs there and yeah the totes

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I was actually surprised because some of these canvas totes that you get can be really cheap and flimsy and that's one of the things

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I told her I said if you're gonna do things for God glory God's glory don't make them cheap right yeah you know don't sell

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Christians junk just because it has a Christian name on it like sometimes you get a this is a little aside but sometimes people get their they've got like reformed coffee now and it's like I'm I'm glad to pay the

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Christian like five dollars more for his bag of coffee just give me good coffee yeah don't give me junk coffee right and charge me more for it right

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I want to support Christian businesses yeah you know and I would I would rather give them a little bit more than I would give to a pagan but you can't give me less than what the pagans right give you know so that's kind of was my counsel to my daughter in that but then getting back to why am

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I in Phoenix this week so this is my second time in Phoenix for what's called the Super Bowl Outreach mhm and really excited about that there's 90 around 90 evangelists coming from around the country to descend upon Phoenix to make the the gospel of Jesus Christ inescapable to all the people coming here who think they're just coming here for a game or to party or sadly these major sporting events are major hotbeds for like sex trafficking and all sorts of other evil things and so yeah we've got lots of brothers and sisters coming from around the country to go out and make

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Jesus' name known far and wide and really excited to be here for the second time doing that in Phoenix that's with sort of my mentor in the faith

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Bill Adams his ministry is Sports Fan Outreach International and so that's kind of their biggest event but they do outreach to sports fans at major sporting events all over the world all year long so Praise God for that and do you know the estimated like amount of people that are going to be at this outreach?

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Are you talking about for the evangelists or people coming into the city? For the Super Bowl usually

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I mean they say around a Super Bowl city usually brings in around a million extra additional people around the

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Super Bowl yeah it's a huge because I mean you know obviously tons of those people aren't going to the game but I mean you just look around like look at your billboards around Phoenix it's all these concerts and parties and I mean it's probably some of the biggest you know carnal concerts of the year will be held around the

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Super Bowl so it just brings in a huge amount of people huge amount of I mean it's a big sought after thing for these cities because they say it brings the city itself it brings in a million people which generally translates to somewhere around a billion dollars in revenue to the host city so that's why it's a big fight who's going to get to host the

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Super Bowls and all that bet you there's a lot of corruption in that fight oh yeah I would imagine plus this weekend is also the

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Phoenix Open so you have two of the biggest events every time the Super Bowl takes place the

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Phoenix Open is the same weekend so when it falls in Arizona you have a lot of people here right now

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I notice even out where we live in East County it's just a ton of traffic

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I'm like what's going on oh yeah forgot Super Bowl yeah and the Phoenix yeah you know shows you how much

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I know about sports though my son asked me who's playing in the Super Bowl I was like ask daddy like the

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Yankees and Red Sox yeah but what oh

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I was going to ask you what are the unique challenges of this as opposed to you know you're out all the time doing public ministry but like what are the unique challenges when it comes to doing this type of event where you have all these people just huge crowds what would you say yeah

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I think one of the big challenges is just our own unbelief because when you see these massive crowds a lot of times there's a lot of you know drunkenness people are you know just going crazy and oftentimes it seems like they're not paying attention you know and I know you talked about you know what are some of the challenges what are some of the blessings well the blessing is you get to ask

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God help my unbelief and God does that by allowing you to see his word do its work yeah you know because we have these great promises from God that the word won't return void and you see it one of the things

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I always tell people about public evangelism is you get to see the word of God come alive right before your eyes if you needed to have confidence that like the

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Bible is true well I mean what the Bible says about man happens right there in front of your face you know that people are you know lovers of you know wickedness and it's all right there in front of you but even in the midst of all that chaos there's always people that the

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Lord brings who are broken who are you know really desiring to have like serious conversations about the state of their soul one of the things and you have to be willing to really

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God has to make you willing to endure a lot of apathy a lot of hostility all these other things to get to you know the one out of 100 or the one out of 500 that's that way but when we look at what the

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Bible says about unregenerate man the fact that God might bring one person out of a crowd like that to have a real conversation about the state of their soul is miraculous and yeah so what's it like when you're you're out there say the

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Super Bowl there's the hostility you have the people that are obviously intoxicated they don't want you there right even if they're not drunk right there's just that hostility like how dare you put your religion on me as I'm trying to enjoy something it's like that mob mentality too where they feed off on another yes 100 % one person might say something and you're getting now you have 25 people right and you're gonna get that but how often do you see the other side like a blessing like someone come by you and say hey brother keep up the good keep up the good work do you get that out of those things oh yeah for sure you get a lot of I think that's another thing about public evangelism is it it spurs other

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Christians along a lot of times they'll be encouraging sometimes they'll even be convicted you know sometimes they'll say man

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I really need to be doing something like this sometimes you get people people come up and take a track and they'll say can I get a few more because they want to go give some out that's super encouraging

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I think a really neat thing that happens a lot is sometimes you go to hand somebody a track and they'll say no thanks I'm a Christian and I always like to say to that would you like to give it to somebody you know that needs one or I'll say well read it let it be an encouragement to you as a

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Christian because as the gospel and then give it to someone else you know that needs it and I think you can

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I mean we don't know people's hearts right but people's reaction to that tells you a lot because I've had a lot of people say

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I'll say give it to somebody would you want to give it to somebody you know that needs it and they'll go yeah yeah

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I will do that or they'll like gnash their teeth at you you know like and so you can see a lot from that but yeah you get a lot of encouragement and you know one thing

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I've learned is in these transient crowds if somebody just comes up and says pat you on the back says hey thanks for being out here brother

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I don't you know I'm a Christian too I don't necessarily need to take that person through the good person test and make sure they're they're a

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Christian you can just take you can just take an encouragement you know what I mean because you get so little of it at things like this you know but yeah

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I mean I think it's it's always encouraging to see how the

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Lord is working in these things because sometimes you look out and just see this mass of people and sometimes which reminds me of I think it was

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Jonathan Edwards said oh Lord stand by me on my eyeballs and what he wanted was for the

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Lord to help him to see each person as an eternal soul and sometimes it's so easy to forget like especially when people are behaving wickedly you know you're just looking like ugh you know and I mean yeah such were some of us but still it's gross

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I mean like we have to admit even though that was us it's no longer us and now we have the

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Holy Spirit and so these things are you know the word says we shouldn't even speak about some of these things that people are doing right?

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But you also see the Lord pulling people out of that just sea of depravity and debauchery to hear the word and I mean sometimes you just see one line from scripture and I've seen it just break people you know the hardest reviler you know and you know even if you just remember

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I mean I think one of the things that's very difficult because we we are still living in this body of death I think it's

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Proverbs 20 it says a harsh word what am

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I stirs up wrath yeah it's a a soft answer turns away wrath oh yeah but a harsh word stirs up strife that's right and I mean sadly sadly

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I've been on the latter part of that more times than I would have liked but if you just remember like a soft answer turns away wrath

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I mean sometimes you just someone curse you and you bless them which is exactly what Jesus said to do I've had that break people

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I had a guy once spit a whole wad of tobacco juice in my face and somehow by the spirit of God I just said hey

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God bless you and this dude like started to weep wow and just was like broken and apologizing man and that was just that was just the

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Lord I mean because if my flesh would have responded if the spirit wasn't controlling me I could have had a much different reaction sure you know and I think sometimes it's a challenge because I think they want that reaction right yeah and then when they don't get it it's like oh this person is genuine and I think and then the heart of that goes to is they've probably seen a professing

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Christian act the same way that they have I see it all the time in the clubhouse right when

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I wasn't saved I would look around I'm always I was always a people watcher even on my team guys

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I would watch what they were doing how they were acting I knew which guys were scandalous which guys weren't and I remember telling a guy once you know come to chapel and I was like dude

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I hang out with you all the time at the bars why do I need what you got you know and so it wasn't until after I met a guy

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Andy Mitchell who later was actually living out his faith as a man of God that I was like see

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I can listen to you I can have a conversation with you but the other guys I'm not going to listen to them because it's baloney it's just tickling your ear like and I think it actually makes them feel better to be able to share like oh look at me and then they're still struggling with I'd rather than be honest and say listen

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I'm a Christian but I'm struggling right now don't follow me you know but it's you don't get that way you get the hostility and so I think that's cool to be able to stay calm and bless someone like that yeah

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I think it's one of the reasons God has really blessed your ministry so much is because and you're just obviously we know you're a sinner

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Bobby and we're not elevating you it's just Christ's work in you but actually

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Don really started listening to your stuff and was super encouraged by your ministry and so it's just that balance of grace and truth but I think that you exemplify that and I know you don't want to be complimented or anything but too bad

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Bobby yeah I just think it's that that balance like you said of like being truthful and speaking the word and with boldness and truth but also having asking

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God to give you that spirit of self -control and humility so anyways we love you

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I love you guys too I'm just thankful to the Lord you know I mean we all we all have strengths we all have weaknesses the

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Lord somehow has just given me this place where I could endure a lot from the heathen but I'm I still struggle a lot of times with God's people when when like you know

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I'll give you just give me an example somebody will come to me and say I'm having this issue we'll talk about it we'll say what this talk about what the scriptures say about it we'll pray together and then a couple months later they come back

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I'll say how's this thing going they'll say you know the same I'll say well have you been praying this scripture that we talked about and they go no and then

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I'm like you know like and then somebody had to remind me once well like you know when

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God points out your sin to you is the repentance always immediate is it always perfect is it and I'm like no you know but yeah

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I think it's it's just the work of the Lord I was a very sort of hot tempered person when

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I was not a Christian and that was just one thing the Lord kind of took from me pretty quickly but yeah

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Praise God huh that he uses people like us it's so encouraging too just to see how

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God uses his people in different ways you know different parts of the body with different functions like you know

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Dennis your ministry and your past in professional sports like he's using you in such a unique way so that you could speak into that arena you know or he used you and is continuing to now you're over here doing you know all that you're doing in the political front so it's just it's just cool

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I think sometimes we look and we're like oh I want to I'm not doing that thing maybe I you know should feel bad or guilty really

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God has just uniquely made each of us to glorify him and as long as we're being faithful he's going to do his work

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I think it's crazy too because I can't I can speak for myself I kind of know both of your stories but I wasn't raised in this

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Christian household right so I wasn't raised like oh my parents are believers and we go to church every Sunday so I see the transformation in my own life right and then

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I hear your guys' stories and you see the transformation yeah it's like how can anyone deny this right right you know like the coolest compliment and the best compliment

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I ever got besides King of Closers in Japan and all that a former teammate saw an article on the

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Daily Wire that they did former it said former MLB pitcher saving babies now and he said out of all the things that my former teammates are doing like this is the thing

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I'm most proud of and I was like man that's a great compliment because he knew who I was right back when I was playing with him he knew exactly who

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I was and so to see that like he saw the transformation and he's like man keep up the good work totally and that's like the encouragement you want to hear because you know sometimes you're like man you know

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I think sometimes as Christians that are saved later in life I can sometimes go back like man

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I really wish I was born in a Christian household so I didn't do X, Y, and Z growing up right and then the person that's born in the

32:09

Christian household is like wait a second I wish I had your story like you know it was just in my family we were always doing this but you came out you come out of sin and all of this depravity and now you're you know living your life for God's kingdom it's an amazing thing so it's a it's such a cool thing to be able to share with people

32:29

I think especially like your story too and now what you're doing you spend hours and hours going out and sometimes getting spit on and you know hit

32:39

I'm sure it's hard but you know like man keep striving keep moving forward well

32:46

I mean I never could have planned for it I'll tell you that I mean I never you know I've just now been a Christian for I guess 14 years if you'd have told me 15 years ago this is what

32:57

I would be doing I would have thought you were the craziest person on earth but you know just touching on something you said there

33:03

Dennis you know we we have these stories of being saved a little later in life and we've kind of tasted and seen the world and all it had to offer

33:12

I mean I I got the t -shirt but I think the one of the things we do in the church is we we can make an idol out of these dramatic testimonies sometimes if you've ever seen testimonies like in a certain type of Baptist church or something that's my background it's almost like the next guy tells his story and is trying to like make it a little bit worse because of the guy before him because if it's worse then you know but I think one of the things that's really neat too about you know children that were raised in the church

33:40

I heard Doug Wilson once say it's a responsibility of every Christian parent to make sure their child has a boring testimony and he said let me qualify it by saying no no testimony of God saving a sinner is like a boring testimony but you know the danger that we have like with our children because God has pulled us out of all that and we want to raise them differently is to not raise a bunch of little

34:01

Pharisees you know and and sometimes that is the way children raised in homes like we have can begin to be and I think it's even just as miraculous when

34:12

God truly puts a love for him in the heart of like a self -righteous little you know raised in the church kid and did everything right kid and all that and then you see them not just living to please their parents or because they want the other people in their church to think a certain way but they you can see a true love for the

34:31

Lord I'll just give an example so one of the things I encourage my daughter to do when she started her business was if people like order something or if you're thanking someone or something just say let me know if there's some way

34:41

I can pray for you so this is just a dad sometimes people accuse me of being helicopter parent if you know the term but I read one of these emails that my daughter got back from someone and they asked how can

34:54

I pray for you and she said just pray that I would stay grounded and stay humble and do all this for God's glory and it was like wow man

35:05

I mean that was something like she didn't know I was going to read that but that's just to be able to see Hannah our oldest daughter when she talks about her faith she'll say when she was about 9 or 10 is when she began to start to want to live for God not just because it was what her parents told her to do and things like that and you know like you know her a little bit and so it's like when you really see that and it's not just a

35:30

I think everybody wants to please their parents you know what I mean like especially if you're like a church kid but when you see them truly doing it from a right heart motivation that to me is just an amazing much of an amazing work of God is like you know saving somebody you know who's so far off right amen it's so it's such an encouragement when we get those little just little flashes in their lives too of when they start to really like you said grab hold of their faith and make it their own like my son

36:03

Liam he has his little business to his Boredom Buster Studios he's on YouTube but he little plug right there yeah there you go

36:11

Boredom Buster Studios if you want kid friendly content he really he got bothered by that there was a lot of bad stuff on YouTube and so he said you know

36:20

I want to make something that's that kids can go to and their parents don't have to worry about it but he was building a website like doing the coding this kid is way smarter than me but yeah he was doing all the back end and created this and then he was describing like his goals and then at the end he just said you know

36:36

I want to make kid friendly content but most of all I want to glorify God and I was like gosh it's in those moments you're like thank you

36:43

Lord you remember those moments when he doesn't act so loving and you're like oh

36:48

God I want to kill you but I love you I just think about when I was a kid I mean I didn't grow up in a

36:54

Christian household and my mind was not even close to wanting to glorify God and you know

37:00

I think one of the best little pieces of parenting advice I got when he was just a baby was that we're just sinners walking side by side together like even though we're their parents and we're called to disciple them and train them up we're still just right next to him just sinners saved by grace you know and so yeah anyways you want to be sanctified go have some kids yeah right get married then have some kids we're changing

37:29

Knox's middle name to sanctification it was

37:35

Zachary after my brother but now it's sanctification sanctification I love that kid though I do think you bring up something really important though Desi I think it's always important to tell our kids like I'm not the standard right and I'm going to disappoint you not because I want to yeah you know

37:52

I want to be the best dad I could be right but there's a heavenly father who's a father that'll never let you down he'll never stare you wrong he'll never leave you or forsake you and you know

38:04

I think one of the ways the enemy works is sometimes you know young people that grow up in Christian homes could have friends or other outside influences and one of the ways the enemy works is they even try to turn children away from their own parents you look in the proverbs how much it has to say about you know heeding your father's instruction listening to your father listening to your mother and so think about what a powerful way that is for the enemy to work to try to get young people to you know think you failed me in this way or that way and it's like you know

38:38

I tell my children I'm gonna fail you that's right like I don't you know I don't hope to but it's inevitable because I still live in a body of death and I need

38:47

Christ just as much as you do that's right I think one of the worst things we can do is raise our children in such a way that's like you need

38:54

Jesus little sinner and it's like it's like for thee but not for me kind of thing you know and we have to model daily repentance to them and you know stuff like that so yeah you bring up a really good point that I was thinking about too of when you get into this type of ministry too even if you're not going and doing these huge events right but if you wanna step into the arena and just share the gospel with people there's gonna be a cost you know and then

39:24

I feel like as things go up as far as like your reach to people you know the enemy's gonna come after you and you better believe he's coming for your marriage he's coming for your kids and I don't say that to have a spirit of fear but just for us to be prepared and to know that you know there's gonna be a cost and just to be guarded because Jesus will prevail and he makes all things for his glory and our good but we're fools if we don't think that he's not coming the enemy's not coming for our families because that's where he takes us out first is you know getting in our marriages coming after our kids and so it's just a good reminder to not only prepare our own hearts but to be praying for those that are going out and doing this type of ministry praying for people that are going out and doing the work on the legislative level

40:16

I was just thinking about our elders and just you know the church is doing so much and it was just a good reminder to pray fervently for them and their families because I think we just take for granted the role of pastor they take on so much and their families their families suffer for it sometimes as far as the enemy coming in and you know just wanting to divide and so just pray for your pastor pray for our pastors and definitely pray for the people that you know like Bobby and for Dennis that are going out into the public arena and making

40:48

Jesus known because the enemy wants to shut us up he wants to divide us so that we don't go out and tell people the good news and the battle is not against flesh and blood right?

41:00

Ephesians 6 but the enemy uses flesh and blood people to wage that spiritual battle that's in the heavenly places and you know honestly

41:11

I think so there's blessing and detriment in the fact that we don't see we can't see with our own eyes this spiritual you know battle that's going on in the heavenly places

41:23

I think if we could see how much God protected us from in the average given day we'd probably be afraid to leave the house you know so I think in that way it's a blessing but the detriment is like because we don't see it we sometimes act like it's not real and it's not happening that we don't need to take up the armor of God every single day you know and so it's kind of a give and take thing there because I wouldn't want to see how much you know how many times the

41:54

Lord's protected us just from people that I mean the things you go in front of abortion clinic just the things people say they would like to do to you and I mean think about how many of the things that were thought that were never said you know what

42:06

I mean and how the Lord just restrains evil so much in the world that one time we were at a conference and a man came up and was talking to my wife about the ministry and he said aren't you afraid one day somebody will come up and shoot him and she

42:25

I was not close enough that she thought I could hear and she actually said I never even think about it she said

42:32

I know that you know apart from the hand of God no one could lay a finger on his head but if that's what the

42:38

Lord chose then you know I pray he'd give me the grace to accept it you know she didn't she didn't presume like she'd just be okay she said

42:47

I would need grace but she said that's not something I really ever think about you know

42:52

I was so glad to hear that you know but I mean that's just reality and I think that the

42:57

Lord's power isn't restraining so much of that but like you said even though somebody may not come and you know murder us on any given day they'll attack our families they'll attack our churches they'll attack everything yeah and it's not it doesn't even stop there it's too it's within Christendom other other believers that are in the same fight as us wanting to bite and devour so I was actually gonna ask how do you stay out of that?

43:26

because hey I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie I've been pulled into it before where I see an injustice or people you know just being dumb online and attacking faithful Christians and you know

43:40

I foolishly probably put in my two cents so I think wisdom though you don't have to always get into every single fight that you're that you're called to but what would you say because you've been doing it for a while and you've seen a lot of these different groups and the infighting that can happen and really it just detracts us from the work that God has for us we're all fighting for the same things it's just a big waste of time you want that first or yeah um yeah

44:07

I mean especially in this field of abortion there's a we have to first come to grips with hey listen none of us have abolished abortion anywhere so we're all new to this as far as what we need to do um and I think a lot of people can take the mission of what we're trying to do and make it about them and so it's about trajectory of where they're going and how they're going to do it as opposed to look at what we've been doing we've been telling pastors hey get out get in front of your church speak the truth on what abortion is and now

44:42

God's moving this thing down um the groups that make it about themselves I think lose focus on what's what's the what's the goal here we should be working together we have we have way too many enemies in this fight to be making within right right you know so it's like let's stop all of this nonsense

45:00

I when I first got into this after I quickly retired um I noticed some things right away and I'm not going to say names but I remember making a comment to like Luke and Jeff and being like this is like a high school cheerleading squad like this little script like what are we doing right like I'm I'm so like amazed that these are

45:20

Christian men claiming to be Christian men fighting like a bunch of school girls on whose name's going to be up in bright lights and I was like this is sickening you know and I believe that it should be called out

45:31

I've seen a couple of times where you've posted very good wisdom towards people um

45:36

I've seen Bobby you respond to other Christians claiming that incrementalism is the way to go and we should just take what they give us um in a loving way yeah but you point to the gospel you point to the truth of God's word and that there is no neutrality that's right and if you're a

45:51

Christian then you have to stand on the truth of either God or the world there's no middle ground right um

45:57

Bonce and you check it out check it out so like go ahead like just how do you handle it uh well

46:03

I mean I'll start by saying all these things that Desi talked about like you know being foolish online and all that I've done it um and I and I lament over it

46:13

I'll probably do it again unfortunately I don't mean to sometimes you just get sucked in but I think one good rule for you know especially social media because one thing

46:23

I think is a really dominant thing that I think is a really poor witness is before you hit you know post maybe ask yourself if that person were standing right in front of me would

46:34

I say this to their face right and if no then maybe don't maybe don't post it right for me another good um kind of uh um guardrail has been my wife you know or sometimes

46:47

I'll come over and say hey read this before I hit post and uh you know you alluded to a thing where I was just having a discussion with an incrementalist brother and I I was

46:59

I felt like I was being pretty firm and pushing pretty and so I asked my wife to read through this thread and I said cause she'll tell me like if I'm jerking for Jesus she'll be the first person to tell me and I need that and I need that um and I was and when

47:16

I called her over seriously when I called her over I was a little concerned like maybe maybe

47:23

I maybe I am pushing this too hard and she read it and she said no I think that's exactly what he needed to hear like you were firm but you were gracious and that's the way we need to be go

47:34

I'm glad I'm really glad you brought this topic up cause maybe some of you guys know my pastor just recently kinda came to the abolitionist position after having been you know sort of a what do you call it uh struggling incrementalist or something like that for years and um

47:52

I can tell you that like some of the behavior by some of our brothers and sisters who first of all just like there's people that call themselves street preachers that go out and make a mockery of Christ they just call people names stuff like that I'm not gonna stop calling myself a street preacher because of them right because street preaching is a biblical thing well

48:14

I'm not gonna stop calling myself abolitionist just because some abolitionists behave poorly right or even sorry pro -life

48:20

I know we don't wanna say it but we are pro you just started a whole thing on the internet we are pro -life we are pro -life abolitionists no we are not part of the pro -life movement but yeah like you said or I've even heard some abolitionists say

48:34

I don't even say I'm a Christian anymore because that word has become so muddied by modern evangelicalism here in the west but I'm like but we are we are

48:45

Christ followers we don't let the culture define the term and that's what the book of Acts says it says the first people the first followers were called

48:53

Christians they called themselves Christians so just because some people have made mud out of that name

48:59

I'm not giving that up either because we have an opportunity then to say this is what the Bible says a Christian is but going back to this abolition thing

49:08

I mean I know for sure when certain people came into my pastor's conference uninvited and started telling everybody there they were doing it wrong and all the stuff like that that didn't help my pastor get to where he is today

49:21

I would say if anything that was a stumbling block for him you know and you know pastors it's a different thing being a pastor than being a guy that stands in front of an abortion clinic every day or preaching on the corner every day pastors have to be slower and careful and they shepherd the flock they defend the flock they feed the flock whereas the evangelist is more just like a sheep dog we're out there trying to steer the sheep into the fold and then the pastor has got to watch over them so they can't just immediately you know every wide eyed idea somebody walks in their office with like a guy like me the pastor goes yeah because you say let's do it right exactly

50:07

I have to drop all these other things and it's like we don't even know where people are in their walk and yes we should be willing to educate and like say hey

50:17

I thought this way too but now look at this is what God's word says but we don't want to do it in a spirit of just like attacking everybody because I think that there's people that are maybe new to the faith or new to the fight that have good intentions they're like hey

50:31

I believe the baby in the womb is valuable and worth all of our protection but they just haven't been walked through it because I didn't know when

50:38

I first got into it I knew nothing all I knew is I used to be pro -choice God changed my heart and what can

50:44

I do and so it was a lot of learning but I remember when I first kind of moved over and I realized that there was something wrong with the pro -life movement when

50:53

I was told hey you shouldn't be sharing Jesus out there you should probably keep that to yourself

50:58

I'm like what? I started going out with this group of abolitionists in San Diego and it was so encouraging because they were saying all these things that I felt like yes this is what

51:10

I've been struggling with and this is what God's word says and there was a lot of good in that there was a lot of faithful Christians out there that there was a couple out there that were just a little off a little imbalanced like I remember we were out in front of a portion mill in San Diego and we were just getting heckled and heckled and screamed at somebody throwing a milkshake and just two people come up behind us and they say you know what good job we're

51:34

Christians too good job and I was like oh a breath of fresh air and that person turned around and attacked them and said what are you doing for the pre -born and I was like no this is wrong what are you doing yeah you know like that is not the heart of I understand the frustration but like these people were like deer in the head like huh we were trying to encourage you they were like well uh bye you know just totally scared them off and I'm like this isn't right so their zeal that's a good thing and passion we should be passionate babies are dying

52:09

I get that but also we don't need to bite and devour Christians that may not be completely where we are as far as like knowing about the differences between abolition and pro -life well yeah

52:22

I mean Jada was adopted and our whole fight of why we're in this and mission of why we're in this has a lot to do with her but when

52:30

I first got saved and I've always been pro -life I would never even when I was a non -believer

52:36

I wouldn't go by the abortion mill and scream at the people that were out there I was like yeah you should protect you know you shouldn't kill babies but there was a question brought up to me once about rape and incest and I was just like oh no like no you can't keep that like no you can't have that baby and Jeff challenged me when

52:56

I first started listening to him describe and I was like oh my goodness I was so wrong because you see the horrible act of what happened there was an injustice against that girl and you don't think about the baby you think about the injustice and you want to justice is like kill the baby no it's not kill the baby it's kill the perpetrator kill the person that did the awful thing right and you just needed at that time if someone would attack me and then

53:24

I would have been like well you know what what are you doing nevermind see you that's exactly no you go ahead first sorry no don't be

53:31

I was going to say and how did Jeff challenge you he challenged you with the word of God 100 % he let the word of God do its work and it wasn't the word of God like shouted at you it wasn't the word of God spoken to you in this condescending way and this you know going back to this conversation

53:46

I was having this incremental it's just like okay well you you have to fight against the word of God to be where you're at yeah you know but when people start talking to you they're talking about unequal weights and measures and okay how what does justice look like in a case of a child conceived in rape certainly it doesn't look like murdering another person yeah you know people always say what if a woman's raped once I was at an abortion clinic and a young lady came up and was just you know undone screaming yelling cursing she said

54:17

I was raped I was raped and I said well ma 'am like you know please don't punish the baby for the crime of the father and she got even more mad and more mad and later

54:28

I was just praying on my way home a lot of times I have a long ride back from the mill and I got convicted and I was like why wasn't the first thing out of my mouth just like I'm really sorry that happened to you because like to say don't punish the baby for the crime of the father wasn't necessarily wrong but was it the most you know compassionate thing

54:47

I could say in the moment and then that actually happened to me again later and I said I'm so sorry and this woman in that situation literally began to weep and fell into my arms in a heap you know and just I was able to share the gospel with her and you know all that and so I think that a lot of times we have to you know think about the things the word says about letting our speech be gracious seasoned with salt asking the

55:14

Lord for wisdom in each situation you know we I just like you said when it's really same team kind of fighting that's the stuff

55:25

I really don't don't get and I'm kind of like just stop we ain't got time for that I mean my way doesn't have to be your exact way and all that we just need to be biblical and when we see another brother or sister who's not being biblical we just need to give them the word and say you know can you wrestle with this scripture can you tell me like what do you do with this scripture and I can tell you my pastor

55:51

I mean he was on a podcast and he literally said the words so this is me

55:57

I've been wrestling with the scriptures for several years now and he said so this is me coming out and saying publicly

56:05

I believe that the only consistent Christian position on abortion that's biblical is abolition and praise

56:12

God and he said you know like here's me publicly repenting of having supported like a heartbeat bill and stuff like that well he didn't get to that place by people just smashing him in the mouth you know he just got to that place by many

56:27

Christians saying okay I hear where you're at now deal see if you can wrestle with this text right here right and the word does its work you know it's not my persuasive argument it's the word that shapes our souls and changes our souls and brings about repentance right exactly when

56:47

I was a brand new Christian you know Zach was the one that shared the gospel with me and Don and Don got saved first and then

56:54

I did and it was pretty quickly after like the abortion issue came up and I was still like same as you being like yeah in the case of rape or incest of course that's crazy and then but Zach wasn't like hey you idiot he was so gentle and was like hey do me a favor would you watch this movie 180 and I watched it and like the

57:17

Lord did his work through living waters and showed me where I was wrong in my thinking and scripture adjusted my thinking and my opinions and so but Zach never once was like you heartless jerk you know he just was like hey let's work through this and I think that's what we need it's okay to be passionate but also like remember what we once were and our thinking too and not to say like oh we're so wise now we still have so much to learn but we don't have to be jerks yeah

57:46

I mean I always go back to at the South Carolina Rally a couple years ago I spoke after Ashley Lawson who was conceived out of rape oh yeah and I mean it was hard to speak after her

57:59

I was like tearing up you know and you hear these stories and it's like you don't kill the baby but like to your point there has to be compassion towards that woman you know

58:08

I remember a time standing out there with Jeff at the Old Mill on Broadway and this mom's pushing a stroller going into Planned Parenthood and this doesn't have anything with the rape but she was just vile towards Jeff just crushing him with every bad word you can hear and I'm out there like this lady sounds like a baseball player like in the clubhouse and ten minutes later

58:31

I look over she's crying in Jeff's arms that Sunday she's at our church and the thing that I noticed the most was that Jeff never got like mad and just started saying well you're going to hell you know it was just like this ma 'am please don't go in there it was just this gracious loving compassionate plea and God softened her heart and it's like whatever happened to a private like hey if you have a problem with me or if you don't like my logo of Action for Life and it's baby feet how about you message me and be like hey

58:59

I just want to know where you're at like are you an abolitionist and I'd be like yeah I don't think any baby should die and I think the only way to do it is to end it for all and I think we would probably do a lot better being like Christians assuming the best assuming the best like hey let me go to my

59:16

Christian brother and let me ask him a question it's just it's that but there's that tends to be in that laziness

59:21

I don't want to put the work in to find out if this person's for real I'll slander him and then

59:27

I'll just kind of go out and just do what I got to do yeah and not realizing that our words whether spoken or typed can be like a wrecking ball and a stumbling block and unbelievers will look on that too and be like what

59:38

I'm confused or maybe somebody that's new they're like what is this why are these people fighting each other they're fighting

59:44

I'm confused and they get turned away and they stop fighting for babies you know because they're just disgusted by the infighting so it's the same thing we tell our children right go to each other if you have an issue like we tell our girls all the time hey go to your sister ask for forgiveness make our you know right the wrong but as adults it's like we still have to have these conversations because we're sinners right we live in a fallen world and we are going to sin but we also need to understand like hey sometimes we need to just sit back breathe and like I'm going to go to that person right you know

01:00:16

Jeff told a story once where he I think it was R .C. Sproul whatever they were gossiping in the church he goes well let's go let's go ask them oh yeah you know it's like yeah let's do that yeah come ask the person what they think yeah amen

01:00:31

I think it would save a lot of us a lot of time and hurt feelings if we just did that but I can't remember where I was going to I was going to ask you something oh well anyways well

01:00:41

I think we're running out of time anyways that was awesome thank you guys both for coming on I just just so appreciate your time and both of your ministries before I get off though I wanted

01:00:51

Dennis first for you to just tell the listeners where they could go to learn more about Red State and how they can maybe get involved absolutely so you can go to takeactionforlife .org

01:01:01

you can go to redstate .com or redstatereform .com look at all the states that we're working in EAN's got a really great website because not only can you help us out with going to your legislators and your local district but EAN did all the work for you you live in Kentucky go on EAN .com

01:01:22

hit the Kentucky button it'll pull up your districts you can find your reps it's made it so easy so don't be a sluggard but you can go on there and see where we're working we're on Facebook well no we got banned from Facebook Zuckerberg he got rid of us we were fighting for the babies and he got rid of us

01:01:40

I didn't realize that wow but you can email me and all my information is on the website and get involved it's really it comes to Christians doing the right thing it's it's

01:01:50

Christians not saying politics are are yucky and I don't want to touch it because it's corrupt where we should actually be shining light into politics two of our guys running bills this year are reformed post mill that post mill

01:02:04

Bobby and so you're starting to see this change and who's running the bills they can argue it from a biblical standpoint so just get involved talk to your pastors to get involved we wouldn't be here with G3 what we're doing with Josh and Virgil if it wasn't for this man sitting across from me so grateful for him but just do something just do something get involved amen amen wow yeah okay

01:02:30

Bobby how about you so they can go can you tell them your ministry website again totheendoftheearth .org

01:02:37

yep and yeah if you want to connect with me I mean it's just bobby at totheendoftheearth .org bobbymccreary at gmail .com

01:02:45

I try to keep it simple I know you talk about how can people get connected with an event like the

01:02:50

Super Bowl um so that's like I said my friend Bill's ministry sportsfanoutreachinternational sfoi .org

01:02:58

or superbowloutreach .org the Super Bowl outreach is if you're trying to get into public evangelism

01:03:03

I would say that's one of the um best ways to get started there's nobody

01:03:09

I know in my Christian life I kind of put him on a similar level as like Ray Comfort except nobody knows who

01:03:16

Bill is there's nobody I know who's got more Christians on the streets sharing the gospel than Bill and he's refined the way that he does these things over the years like now you have to have a pastoral reference and a spouse reference wow which

01:03:30

I think is a really good one because we had some guys in the beginning when I started with Bill who would have like a mess at home and then they come out and like have evangelization across the country you know and leave their family mess at home and we don't we don't want that so he's he's doing he's refined it a lot but it's a great way to get involved with other people that are new and veteran people so sfoy .org

01:03:55

I'm in May I have the privilege of Bill's entrusted me to lead his Kentucky Derby outreach the last couple years and so if anybody's interested in that that can be a wild event and that can definitely be a get your hair blown back a little bit but one thing

01:04:11

I say is I say if you can handle that event you can go anywhere like if you can handle that you're ready for Mill Avenue you're ready for downtown

01:04:18

Athens that's the worst one it used to be a lot more raucous like pre -covid it got really crazy but they've done a lot of they've put up a lot of fencing and stuff now although a couple years ago they did try to bring down the fencing to get to us after the event cause that just it's one of the largest sporting events in the world it's like 165 ,000 people in one day for the fastest 60 seconds in sports but they come out there at 7 in the morning and they're getting hammered like all day so when that thing lets out at like 630 you have 160 ,000 people leaving a place all at once recipe for disaster but the work still doesn't work

01:04:59

I've seen people in tears after that event I've seen you know like here's a mob and then here's somebody broken coming out of the mob so yeah and so if anybody wants to do any of these sporting events things they can reach out through sfoi .org

01:05:16

or they can just reach out to me cause I've been to most of the events that Bill does I mean like if there's a major league baseball all star game that's happening near you or some other sport all star game all these different sporting events he's gonna have people there and the great thing about these events is there's always a we just think about it evangelistically but like for the

01:05:38

Super Bowl we'll start the morning out with an hour of corporate prayer and then we'll break bread and fellowship together then there'll be two hours of teaching and then we go out for like the next seven or eight hours and evangelize you know so it's not just this you know one facet that's happening like this year the teaching all the team leaders are teaching on biblical eldership you know and so that to me is a really unique thing is trying to bring good ecclesiology to evangelists as well cause a lot of times you see the guys out there they're doing it in a really shameful way they're not in a church they have no authority in their lives and that's just not

01:06:18

Christian God's a God of authority and Christians are people under authority yeah you know so well

01:06:23

I would like to invite you back on for another another episode to talk just about that cause

01:06:29

I had that on our list of should everybody evangelize so I think that would be a good a good topic to talk about and I don't think we talk about it enough so anyways

01:06:40

I'm grateful for both of you guys and so thankful for your ministries and when you think about it please pray for Dennis and Bobby and their wives and their kids because they're out doing the

01:06:52

Lord's work and they need our prayers and as you and Don as well and your brother and Pastor Zach for sure please pray for our pastors and your own pastor too and thank you for listening or watching wherever you are of another episode of Provoked all we want to do is just come alongside the local church and encourage