Is the Jab Dividing the Body?

Your Calvinist

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00:00

So many people forget the real war that we're fighting.

00:03

The real war is not between the vaccinated and unvaccinated or even the vaccine mandates, when the vaccine mandates are evil.

00:10

But the war is, again, Christ and the ungodly, the godly versus the ungodly.

00:34

Welcome back to Conversations with a Calvinist.

00:36

My name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist.

00:39

And I am excited today to welcome to the program, first time guest and very popular blog writer, Samuel Say.

00:46

Samuel, it is nice to be with you today.

00:48

Thank you for being on Conversations with a Calvinist.

00:50

Thank you for having me.

00:52

Absolutely, absolutely.

00:53

And I'm glad that you're here.

00:55

I've been a big fan of your writing now for several years.

00:58

You've had the Slow to Write blog that has been out now for eight years.

01:03

And you in the blog say that you're committed to addressing racial, cultural and political issues with biblical theology and an attempt to be quick to listen and slow to speak.

01:14

Your words have been featured on The Daily Wire, The Christian Post, TheBlaze.com and my wife's personal favorite, Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey.

01:24

So tell us how this all began because I mean, I see your name everywhere.

01:28

As I said, you're on all these posts, but how did this start and what got you into it? Yeah, I started writing in 2015, as you said, eight years ago and it was in response to the original Black Lives Matter riots.

01:45

Right now, everyone thinks of the 2020 riots, but the first riots were in Ferguson, Missouri after the Darren Wilson and Michael Brown incident in Ferguson.

01:58

So a lot of people that I knew, especially my friends at the time, were really embracing critical race theory.

02:02

And to be honest, they were mentioning terms that I wasn't even familiar with.

02:07

I'm like, wait a minute, this is not you.

02:09

You're saying things that's just, you're being taught this, what's going on? And as I started doing my research, as I started studying critical race theory, studying critical theory, studying Marxism, studying just the history of racism to understand where perhaps they were coming from.

02:31

And then of course, studying the scriptures more on the issue of race and justice and everything.

02:37

I became more and more convinced that, of course, that critical race theory was unbiblical.

02:41

I already knew it was from what they were saying and how they were thinking of their white pastors or their white church members, but I really wanted to understand where it was coming from and how to confront it with scripture.

02:53

So instead of just calling all my friends to say, hey, here's why I think you're wrong and here's why I think you're in a dangerous path, I thought, let me just write a blog, write an article or two, and then send it to them.

03:07

And I did a, I think it's a seven or eight part series on Black Lives Matter originally.

03:15

And many of them became convinced, some were not convinced, but those who were convinced, they shared it on social media.

03:21

And from 2015 on, it just kept growing and growing until 2020, where everything just went crazy in the world.

03:30

And I guess people went to my blog and they realized that I'd been writing about this and warning about this for five years before then.

03:36

So yeah, that's how I got started.

03:39

Oh, wow.

03:40

Well, and like I said, it's been all around.

03:43

And having looked at a lot of your material just over the years, but also in preparation for the show, you do deal with a lot of subjects.

03:51

It's not just the BLM stuff, but I mean, you have dealt with so many, I'm pulling up your Instagram now.

03:59

I mean, you've dealt with the issue of homosexuality.

04:02

I saw that you were on with John Root doing that.

04:06

And you've even recently posted about the Tyree Nichols situation that's going on.

04:11

And you've even addressed Ivan Provo, I don't even know how to say it, the hockey player.

04:19

I'm a Canadian, so I watch a lot of hockey.

04:21

So I know a lot of Russian names.

04:24

So yeah, it's Provo, but.

04:26

Oh, okay.

04:26

Yeah, I would have never got there.

04:30

Would have never got there.

04:31

All right, well, one of the things that we do on this program, and it's become kind of one of the more fun parts of the program is a way to get to know you a little better is called Craziest Things This Week is where I bring up a video that you did not know was coming.

04:51

I did not, I warned you before that there was going to be a video that you didn't know about.

04:55

But this is a video that you don't know what the context is.

04:59

You don't know what the content is.

05:00

You're gonna get this for the very first time right now.

05:03

And as a man who is slow to write, you're going to have to be in one sense quick to speak because you're gonna have to respond off the cuff.

05:13

But I did look through your page and you have at least posted on this in regard to your Instagram.

05:19

So this isn't totally out of left field.

05:21

But when you see it, you'll know exactly what it is.

05:23

Hopefully you'll be able to hear this well.

05:26

The gay men and women who grew up in church and the gay men and women who've come to faith in Christ as adults who want to participate in our church.

05:33

Oh my goodness.

05:35

I know 1 Corinthians 6 and I know Leviticus and I know Romans 1.

05:39

It's so interesting to talk about all that stuff.

05:41

But just, oh my goodness, a gay man or woman who wants to worship their heavenly father, who did not answer the cry of their heart when they were 12 and 13 and 14 and 15.

05:56

God said no.

05:58

And they still love God.

06:02

We have some things to learn from a group of men and women who love Jesus that much and who want to worship with us.

06:09

And I know the verses.

06:10

I know the clobber passages, right? All right, brother.

06:16

Well, he told us right there.

06:18

He has read 1 Corinthians 6.

06:20

He has read Leviticus.

06:22

He has read Romans 1.

06:24

And he calls them the clobber passages.

06:28

So what are your thoughts as a biblical writer and thinker? So there's so many thoughts there.

06:40

One is when he uses the term clobber passages, that's actually a term as far as I know, which is directly taken from progressives who use that term as, well, here is how the Bible hates or oppresses gay people.

07:00

And he as a pastor is using that term essentially in agreement with them.

07:05

The other thing is, if you listen to what he's saying closely, he is making not God, but the gay people there, the gracious people.

07:18

It's like, well, although God has said no to them, they love God anyway.

07:24

It's like they have a reason, a basis to not love God because God has said no to them.

07:32

Not that God is the one who's being loving there, but they're the ones who are being loving towards God, which of course you're not loving God if you're not obeying him, right? Christ says that if you love me, you will keep my commandments.

07:45

So what he is saying there, he's making God out to be the sinner and then gay people out there to be the innocent, gracious party there.

07:53

But on top of that, and I wrote an article about this some time ago, the number of people, because I write particularly about, I mean, all different things, but especially critical race theory and things like that.

08:05

But so many young people are struggling with this thing, trying to understand how to think about this biblically because they're hearing people like this, pastors like that saying these things.

08:14

And I always say this is that we think, and I really mean people like Andy Stanley thinks that he loves gay people more than God does.

08:23

And it is completely wicked that the most loving thing you could do is to tell the truth, right? As 1 Corinthians 13 says, love does not because of wrongdoing.

08:33

So God is not gonna rejoice at a gay person who is in sin, who is going to suffer the wrath of God unless they repent and believe.

08:43

So there's so much I could say about that, but it is absolutely abhorrent.

08:47

It is an evil thing.

08:48

And honestly, since then, since that post, I've received emails from people that used to go to his church and they've said they left his church because, because, and I won't go into too many details with this, but they left the church because he personally told them that he's approving of homosexuality in the church.

09:10

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

09:12

Well, that's some powerful thoughts, especially regarding God as being the less gracious party and the homosexuals being the more gracious.

09:20

That's thoughtful, brother, that very insightful.

09:24

All right, I have one other thing.

09:25

I normally don't do two craziest things, but you're a man who has so many good things to say.

09:32

I thought you would be worth a second one, but this is not a video.

09:34

This is just a picture because I didn't wanna show a video.

09:37

This is from last night's Grammys.

09:42

So my thought was maybe you might share your thoughts on, did you see what I'm talking about? Oh, I saw it.

09:51

I wish I could even see it, but I saw it.

09:53

Oh man, yeah.

09:55

I actually just made a post about this, is that when you see something, I didn't watch the Grammys last night.

10:01

I didn't even know it was on.

10:03

And I love music, but I know they're not rewarding skill.

10:07

They're rewarding sin, right? Not skill.

10:10

So I don't wanna watch any of that.

10:12

That is a quote worthy of Twitter right there.

10:15

Oh.

10:16

You need to drop that.

10:17

I will retweet that.

10:19

The Grammys are rewarding sin, not skill.

10:22

Oh man, that's good stuff.

10:25

Well, my head is getting even bigger now.

10:27

So my wife will be thankful for that, but I'm thankful.

10:33

Yeah.

10:35

One of the things I've said in my post is, this completely, again, destroys the myth of neutrality, that you are either, I mean, they are now letting it known out there.

10:47

They know where the culture is at.

10:48

They're not ashamed anymore.

10:50

He's the second, there are two prominent gay artists in society, him and Lil Nas X.

11:02

Over the last year or two, they've both dressed as the devil in performances.

11:10

Yeah.

11:10

I mean, that's saying a lot, but also I said in my post that, it's not just him.

11:18

You're either worshiping Christ or you're worshiping Satan.

11:22

If you condemn Christianity, if you condemn Christ, you're really celebrating Satan.

11:27

And in many ways, wow, it's horrific to see that.

11:30

It's horrific.

11:31

But in many ways, I'm glad that our society is really seeing, not that I'm not happy that we are where we are, but I'm glad that people are starting to see that, look, there really are two big differences in our society.

11:47

It's not different religions, or it's one religion versus the other.

11:52

It is Christianity or any other religion, any other circular view, it is really just you're either for Christ or you're against them.

12:00

You're either for the devil or you're against them in Christ.

12:03

Amen.

12:04

Amen.

12:04

Love it.

12:05

Love it.

12:06

Well, brother, thank you for being a part of, and again, you're the first person to get two craziest things this week.

12:16

I couldn't decide which one I wanted to do, but we are gonna move now to our next segment.

12:21

And this segment is one that I was super excited about to do with you, because every week I have a different person on the program and every week we play a game.

12:30

Now, normally we play a game about pop culture or I have a trivia game that we play.

12:35

We have all these things, but I have something very special for you.

12:39

And what it is, it's based upon some things that you've written on your Instagram page.

12:44

One of them I wanna quote, and I'm quoting you directly.

12:47

So this is not, I just wanna make sure my audience knows this is not Keith's thoughts.

12:52

This is Samuel's thoughts.

12:54

As put onto Twitter, he said, or I'm sorry, onto Instagram.

12:58

He said, no one warned me when I married a small town white woman that eventually I would start talking like her.

13:07

I almost died inside when I said, I'm in a pickle.

13:13

You're putting me in a pickle right now, right? I read that and I thought, first of all, I just love you so much more because of that.

13:23

And you wrote something else.

13:25

I'm trying to find it.

13:26

I pull it back up.

13:27

Something else that you said was another phrase.

13:35

I don't remember.

13:36

I can't find it right now, but basically it was another, it wasn't a pickle.

13:41

No, it was, you said, I'm- Oh, gung ho.

13:45

Yeah, you said gung ho.

13:46

Yeah.

13:46

Well, I was about to.

13:48

I was trying to describe something to my wife and I almost said gung ho and I stopped myself by the grace of God.

13:56

And I'm like, no, no, this is not good.

14:00

This is not good for me.

14:01

But anyway, yeah, it was gung ho.

14:03

Well, that's funny.

14:05

Well, what I've decided to do for your game, this was all for you, is I went to itsasouthernthing.com.

14:11

Now itsasouthernthing.com is a funny website.

14:15

They put out a lot of videos.

14:16

We love, our family watches a lot of their stuff.

14:18

It's just funny, home, you know, just clean humor, you know, like stuff that's good.

14:25

And I like humor, as you know.

14:27

Well, what they have is they have 30 Southern phrases and I'm gonna give you a couple.

14:33

I want you to tell me if you know what they mean.

14:35

So what, this is your game.

14:37

This is just for Sam.

14:38

Cause you're not from the South, right? No, I'm from Canada.

14:43

Not the South.

14:43

So you're like even more North.

14:46

You're not, yeah, I got you.

14:50

I mean, I'm in the Midwest now, but yeah, I'm from Canada originally.

14:55

All right.

14:56

So I'm gonna give you a phrase.

14:57

You have to tell me what you think it means.

14:59

Okay.

15:00

First one, his cornbread ain't done in the middle.

15:04

His cornbread ain't done in the middle.

15:11

What do you think that means? What? Since, okay, so my perception of the South is a lot of the phrases, when it's about other people, it's really a nice insult.

15:25

Yeah.

15:25

So I'm going to assume they're saying he's not very smart.

15:32

That's right.

15:32

Yeah, he's not all there.

15:33

Yeah, his cornbread ain't done in the middle.

15:36

That means he's not, he just, he's a little off.

15:38

He's not quite there.

15:40

All right.

15:41

All right.

15:41

Here's another one.

15:43

And I, and maybe I look forward to the day that you say this one and maybe you'll text me and say, hey, it came out.

15:53

Have you ever said to someone you wanted to have a come to Jesus meeting? You know, I haven't said it, but it's funny you say that because I know a woman from the South in here in Ohio.

16:09

And I'm pretty sure she said that to me and not to me necessarily, but said it to me about somebody else.

16:19

And I think it was having a confrontational meeting.

16:26

Yes.

16:26

With that person.

16:28

Yeah.

16:28

Yeah, that's it.

16:29

That's right.

16:30

Yeah.

16:30

Come to Jesus meeting means we're talking about something serious because coming to Jesus is serious.

16:35

So that's a come to Jesus meeting.

16:37

All right.

16:40

Here's one.

16:41

And this one is, maybe isn't really a question of what it means, but where do you think it comes from? What in the Sam Hill? You ever hear somebody say that? Your name's Sam.

16:50

You ever heard somebody say that? No.

16:54

What in the Sam Hill? So I'm supposed to figure out where it comes from? No, no, no.

16:59

I'm saying, what do you think it means? What in the Sam Hill? What do you think that means? Okay.

17:08

Let me ask you a question.

17:09

Is the Sam Hill an actual person? I don't think so.

17:12

I don't think so.

17:15

So, okay.

17:16

I mean, I think it means what in the world, right? Like, yeah.

17:21

But I'm- This is an example of Southern curse words that don't, cause we're not allowed to curse.

17:29

Mama won't let us curse.

17:30

So we make up other words that are, you know, like, you know, you know, just all, I don't even want to get into it.

17:37

Cause you can't get, but there's a lot of things that we use to replace bad words.

17:41

And, you know, people would say, what the heck? Instead of, you know, using the H word, but this is what in the Sam Hill is like, what the, just like what you said, what in the world? All right.

17:54

All right.

17:55

So last one, last one is the phrase that is so versatile.

18:01

It's everywhere.

18:02

We hear it.

18:03

If you're South of Tennessee, you hear this all the time.

18:08

What does it mean when someone says, bless your heart? Oh, you know, it's really interesting.

18:15

My wife, who's not from the South, but she, well, when we went to visit the South recently, she was telling me what it really means.

18:24

If I remember, it is, apparently it doesn't really mean bless your heart.

18:30

No, it does not.

18:31

Yeah.

18:32

Apparently it's, I guess it's more of, I mean, how do I phrase it? It's more of a, I can't call it an insult, but it's like this, like you're a fool.

18:44

Yeah.

18:45

Or something like that.

18:45

Yeah.

18:46

That's it.

18:47

That's it.

18:47

It's basically saying you're an idiot, but I'm gonna love you anyway.

18:52

Bless your little heart.

18:53

Yeah.

18:54

Yeah.

18:54

I would have never known.

18:56

I would have never known.

18:56

Wow, look at these kind people.

18:58

Wow.

18:59

I would have never known at all.

19:01

If you're in the South and a Southern woman says, bless your heart, she does not mean it in the most gracious way.

19:10

All right, my friend.

19:12

Well, in tying in with today's game, I want to let the audience know that we do have a giveaway for this week.

19:18

And this week we're going to be giving away two books.

19:22

We're going to be giving away The God Who Is There by D.A.

19:26

Carson, as well as The Leader Guide, which is going to be a two-pack and you'll be able to have the book.

19:33

And if you're discipling someone else, or maybe you want to pass on The Leader Guide to your pastor or read the book and give both of them to your pastor or to a small group leader, you'll be able to do that.

19:44

And here's how you enter to win today's giveaway.

19:48

In honor of Sam's playing It's Our Southern Slang game, you're going to go into the comments of this YouTube video and you're going to leave your favorite Southern phrase.

20:00

So if you, and if you don't know one, you can go to itsasouthernthing.com and find one, but look up or put in the comment section, my favorite Southern phrase is leave it behind.

20:12

And if you do that, you will be entered to win again, a copy of The God Who Is There and a copy of The God Who Is There Leader's Guide.

20:23

So thanks Sam for playing and allowing our guests, our viewers rather, to have the opportunity to win.

20:31

All right.

20:32

All right, so now we're going to move on to the next part of the program.

20:35

And this is the part of the program that really most of you probably tuned in for.

20:39

And that's the main topic of today's program.

20:41

We're going to be discussing the subject of the jab, but we're really going to be talking more about Christian liberty and our love for one another when we have serious disagreements.

20:55

As it is well-known, back during COVID and COVID, and after COVID, there was a big push from the leaders to get vaccinated.

21:07

And there were many people who went right out and got vaccinated.

21:11

I have family members who did and who did so.

21:14

And I have other people in my life and in our church who chose not to.

21:19

And some of them took a very strong stand against it, feeling like they did not want to be forced to take something that was, in their mind, experimental and not having had the rigorous studies that they wanted done.

21:35

So there was reasons on both sides.

21:37

Some people felt like they really needed it.

21:38

Some people felt like they didn't want it.

21:41

And it created a lot of division in churches.

21:44

And Sam has taken to write about the subject because in his blog, he talked about how his wife and he were wanting to be married.

21:55

And because of that, the vaccine became an issue.

21:59

Sam, do you want to tell us about that? I know it's in your blog, but tell us what happened.

22:03

Yeah, yeah.

22:04

So I'll try to summarize the story as much as possible because it can be a bit of a long story.

22:10

But long story short, in order to come to America so I could marry my wife, I had to get the vaccine.

22:21

Before that, in Canada, there are very, very few Christians who have a platform in writing on the culture.

22:38

And there's an even smaller group of people that were very vocal against the vaccine mandates.

22:44

And I was one of them.

22:47

And yet, so I didn't want to get the vaccine whatsoever.

22:49

I don't have an issue with anybody who wants to get the vaccine.

22:55

I even wrote an article before I got the vaccine about how everyone should be fully convinced in their own minds, referencing Romans 14, when it comes to what they feel they should do, as you said, Christian liberty.

23:07

But I didn't want to, but yet, in order to marry my wife, I had to.

23:11

If I did not come, if I were to refuse getting the vaccine, because of immigration issues or whatever, I wouldn't have been able to come to America a year or two afterward.

23:23

So I had to really pick getting the vaccine and being married or not getting the vaccine and being single.

23:31

And my wife and I had been already waiting, my wife, as in my fiance at the time, we had been waiting for like five years because of so many difficult issues with immigration and then the COVID lockdowns, two years, we couldn't see each other at all.

23:47

It was just crazy.

23:48

I'm like, I can't keep doing this to myself and to her.

23:52

We need to get married.

23:54

So I got the vaccine actually while I had COVID, which is a crazy story in of itself.

23:59

But in the article, I said afterward, and it's true that it was afterward, but I still really had COVID in my system.

24:09

I wasn't supposed to leave the house, to be honest with you.

24:12

But if I didn't get the vaccine on that very day, I wouldn't be able to leave the country.

24:18

So I decided to just go to the pharmacy.

24:21

They didn't ask me if I had COVID or not.

24:22

If they asked me, I would have told them, but they didn't ask me.

24:25

So I did it in, I think, an even more dangerous way.

24:27

I was really concerned about the vaccine and then being sick while I took it was even, you know, it was even more concerning.

24:35

But anyway, yeah, so I got the vaccine and I came to America.

24:40

Actually, it's been a year this week and I married my wife.

24:46

But one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about this issue is I've been writing about racial issues for a long time.

24:53

And I've always said that racism, you know, is directly addressed in the scriptures as partiality.

25:00

I define racism as partiality against someone because of their skin color, not race, because there's no such thing as race, or at least multiple races.

25:08

There's only the human race.

25:09

Nevertheless, what concerns me is, especially at that time, you had so many Christians, regardless of their views on the vaccine, who were supporting mandates that showed partiality against unvaccinated people.

25:27

And that's just sinful.

25:28

It just is.

25:29

You cannot punish someone because of a choice that they believe is really right for them.

25:35

A choice they believe that it is the best way for them to love God and their neighbor.

25:40

So anyway, that's the, I'm kind of went past the question there, but that's why- No, I think that's very helpful.

25:47

It provides a context for our conversation because it's given us a couple of different paths that we're gonna go down.

25:56

And the first path is, of course, what you said in regard to every man has to be convinced in his own mind.

26:03

I think that that's a very important thing that people miss, is that when you went and you were vaccinated, you made a decision that you had to determine was right for you.

26:16

And at that point, you know that one day you're gonna stand before God and give an account for everything you've done, and including that.

26:23

And as Romans 14 that you pointed to earlier, it says, before a master does a servant stand or fall.

26:31

We ultimately are going to have to stand before God in how we respond to this.

26:37

And as I said, we have people in our church, some who were very anxious to get the vaccine.

26:43

Some of them were older, some of them had health risks that caused them to be very concerned about COVID.

26:52

And on the other side, there were those who felt like they would not wanna do it because they didn't want whatever potential health risks would go with the vaccine.

27:01

And therefore they were convinced in their mind that they shouldn't do it.

27:05

And so we as elders, and it was me and my two elders who served together with me, we had to be gracious on both sides and say, we're not gonna stand up and say you on one side are the righteous and you on the other side are the wicked or vice versa.

27:21

But to say that you've made a decision and it's your conscience that has led you to this decision and you're gonna bear the consequences of that decision, whatever they are.

27:33

If you don't get the vaccine and you end up getting sick and something happens, then you're gonna bear that consequence or the opposite, which now there's a lot of talk about perhaps the vaccine having effects.

27:45

And that was one of the things that you mentioned in your article that I read about, people have said to you, well, are you afraid? And can you speak to that for a minute? Cause I do think that's something that a lot of people are, people who have the vaccine are afraid right now.

28:00

Some of them.

28:03

Absolutely, I'm not afraid now, but I was, I mentioned in that article that when I was going to get the vaccine, I was afraid of whether I was making the right choice.

28:21

I wasn't really afraid of the possible outcomes because I knew, it may sound strange to some people, but I knew I was risking my life in my mind.

28:30

Not that I believe the vaccine is a death sentence.

28:33

I don't believe that.

28:34

But at that time there were complications already that were coming out.

28:38

On my blog, I had actually worked with a politician in Canada to get people to send me their stories.

28:45

I called them, I think they're vaccine stories where people who've had the vaccine, who were saying that, yeah, they were suffering some health complications from it.

28:54

So I already knew this could happen, especially you had people my age, who were being told to, hey, be concerned, make sure you get this particular vaccine and not the other, because one is more dangerous for young men.

29:06

So I knew that I could potentially harm myself over this, but I still believe that, look, if it's in God's hands, I'm going to, I think my bigger mission is to pursue my wife, no matter the outcome.

29:23

And also I did not want her, because she would have to, if she were to come to Canada, instead of me coming to America, she would have to get the vaccine.

29:30

I didn't want that.

29:31

I wanted to be the one that would take the risk instead of her.

29:35

So I was not afraid of death necessarily, or even the health complications.

29:41

I knew that could happen.

29:43

My mind was made up already at that point.

29:45

My temptation to fear was more that, was I making the right choice? Like, is this honoring to God? That's what I was really thinking about.

29:55

And on the way there, that's all I thought about.

29:58

I also thought about death.

29:59

Like, okay, like I might die.

30:00

I'm not saying again, it's the vaccine definitely kills anybody, right? I'm just saying that again, that has been something that's happened.

30:07

So I thought, you know, since this might happen, am I doing the right thing here? And I became convinced I was doing the right thing.

30:14

But I wrote the article, not because I was afraid then or that I'm afraid now, but that given what's happening in our culture, where there have been health complications and people supposedly dying from the vaccine, I had a young girl, I think she was maybe 19 or 20, who, I should say a young woman, who reached out to me saying that she's in Canada, she got the vaccine.

30:40

She knows that I got the vaccine too.

30:42

So she's asking me, hey, are you afraid? And she's saying that because she's afraid.

30:47

And honestly, my heart broke.

30:49

My heart really broke because I see this young woman who's just scared because she's seeing what's going on out there.

30:56

And then there've been tweets going on about someone saying, some people who are very prominent saying, yeah, if I was vaccinated, I'd be scared right now.

31:04

And then, so that's gonna make her more afraid.

31:06

And then my goal for that article was to say, look, as a Christian, you don't have to be afraid.

31:14

You don't have to be.

31:15

So then I went through the data saying that, look, there are health complications that come from this thing, but it's not the majority.

31:21

But that's not even what should be our hope.

31:23

That's not our hope whatsoever.

31:25

Our hope is that even if you were to die, it wouldn't be because of the vaccine necessarily.

31:33

It's because God has numbered your days and God had decided to bring you home.

31:37

And that is not something for you to be afraid of.

31:38

It's something for you to rejoice in.

31:40

So that article was meant to encourage people like her who were afraid because of the vaccine, because of what's being said around them.

31:47

And the reactions to that was quite interesting, but yeah.

31:55

Well, what have you had? I was gonna go there.

31:58

I was gonna talk about, in church, have you experienced mixed reactions? But let's start with the blog.

32:06

What have been the most, and when I say the word vicious, have you had any vicious attacks about this or have they been just more thoughtful? What would you say has been the tenor of the response? Yeah, the majority, as I expected, were very, very helpful.

32:25

There were very, a lot of people, a lot of people who had been vaccinated were like, yeah, they've been afraid.

32:31

And the article really encouraged them.

32:33

It helped them to remember that God is sovereign, that everything that happens in their life, vaccinated or not, is ordained by God.

32:41

I am a Calvinist like you, so.

32:44

I didn't wanna ask because I never wanna put somebody on the spot, but it sounded like that's where you were coming from, so.

32:52

Yeah, I mean, I'm biblical, so I have to be Calvinist.

32:55

I'm kidding, I'm causing trouble.

32:59

I'm gonna cut just that part out and that'll be what goes on Twitter as we advertise the program and say, I'm biblical, therefore, I'm a Calvinist, ka-ching.

33:07

You know, it's funny, someone, I already mentioned her name earlier, so Ali Stuckey, right? So someone sent me a message saying, Sam, because I made a post about Ali Stuckey at the time, saying, Sam, I like Ali Stuckey too, but she's a Calvinist.

33:22

I can't really get behind her all that much.

33:26

And I said, well, I mean, I'm a Calvinist.

33:31

And they're like, oh, really? All right.

33:35

And then they said, what in the Sam Hill? I'm kidding.

33:40

I'm kidding, they didn't say that.

33:43

Well, butter my biscuit.

33:50

But yeah, so anyway, but yeah, to the reactions were mostly very helpful.

33:56

I was, honestly, the biggest privilege that I have as a writer is to hear from people that my words are really encouraging them.

34:05

That's really the most important thing to me.

34:08

That's a real blessing to me.

34:10

But of course, there were some people that were not happy at all.

34:14

It's interesting.

34:16

The vicious, I guess, replies were people who were assuming my intentions.

34:23

They were claiming that I wrote the article because I'm afraid and I'm trying to lie to myself.

34:29

I'm like, what are you guys talking about? But they were claiming that, and they were saying some pretty awful things.

34:35

They were trying to rebuke me for getting the vaccine.

34:38

They were saying, I've sinned.

34:41

I need to repent because I got the vaccine.

34:46

It's apparently sinful to get the vaccine.

34:49

But people were also really attacking the Christians who I was writing to, the Christians who are vaccinated, who are right now struggling with fear and anxiety.

35:02

They were saying, yeah, you should be fearful.

35:04

You should have anxiety.

35:05

But wait a minute, guys.

35:07

Have you read your Bibles? No, they shouldn't be.

35:11

Even if you believe they are dying, even if you believe that.

35:15

No, what are you doing? And what's happened is, there's so many people out there who were victims of partiality because they were unvaccinated.

35:30

And now they've become so bitter because they blame the so-called compromisers who got the vaccine.

35:39

And they've lost their jobs.

35:41

Some of them have been, some of them have suffered from terrible churches.

35:45

Some of them have gone through real difficulty over the last two, three years.

35:50

And because of that, they've become so bitter that now, because the news is coming out in a more favorable manner towards them about saying, they're not saying, yeah, see, we were right about the vaccine, that now the people who are afraid, who are vaccinated, they're now, not all, obviously, but many of these people are shaming the vaccinated people.

36:15

They're attacking them.

36:16

They're doing the exact same thing that was done against them.

36:20

They're now repaying evil for evil.

36:23

I believe, I think that's Romans 12, I think.

36:25

Repaying evil for evil.

36:26

And it's just, it's like, guys, so then you, what you hated about partiality against the unvaccinated was not really the partiality.

36:37

It was that it was against you.

36:39

And now you're seeing this cycle.

36:41

And to be honest, it's very similar to the issue of critical race theory.

36:48

And I plan to write about this very soon, but that critical race theory, in some ways, not completely, but in some ways, it's repaying evil for evil when it comes to white supremacy.

36:58

As a society, there's always this cycle.

37:01

As a sinful people, there's a cycle that we've been sinned against, therefore, we're gonna sin against the other.

37:08

So whether it's on racism or the vaccine, it's the exact same thing.

37:14

It's that we were victims of sin, therefore, we're going to sin against them too.

37:21

Now, they won't say that's the real reason, but their fruits say that's exactly what's happening.

37:27

Yeah.

37:28

And when you, talking about the, you hit on something there when you said that those who were not vaccinated now feeling like they have been vindicated, and therefore, that vindication gives them the right to attack those who disagree.

37:47

And again, it does come back to an issue of liberty, I think, where we're saying, and you said partiality, I think is a good point too.

37:55

We're saying, no, they shouldn't have had the liberty to do that, they shouldn't have done it.

38:01

And therefore, it's no longer an issue of should we or shouldn't we, it's an issue of if you did, you are wrong.

38:09

And I've had people tell me, friends and things who've looked into the issue and they've said, well, if people just knew they wouldn't do it because of all the health dangers and things like that, and that's their conviction, and that's fine, that's where they're at.

38:29

But again, something you said earlier about with your wife's situation, you took it, you didn't want her to have to do it, so you took it so you could come and you two could get married.

38:42

And that again, that was a conviction, and you took the chance, if you wanna say, and as Calvinists, we know there's no such thing as chance, but you took the burden on yourself.

38:58

And it's a sad thing to think that that's become a place where people have attacked you, but at the same time, as public personalities, and that's what you are, you're a public person now, your life is on display through your blog and through your social media presence.

39:19

As a public personality, we open ourselves up to a certain level of scrutiny, but it still doesn't make what the people are saying right.

39:26

And I think people think they can say anything they want because they're behind their keyboards and they wouldn't necessarily say it if they were standing in the room with you.

39:36

Yeah, very few people would say what they tell me on social media when I'm in the room with them.

39:39

Yeah.

39:41

But yeah, even what they say against me, and look, there's some things that can hurt me on social media, no doubt about it, but those things don't hurt me.

39:51

I'll be honest with you, I'll be very candid.

39:53

I have always been this way, and that's just from my mom.

39:57

I, maybe it's arrogance, but not that my mom is arrogant at all, but I am, that when I do something that I know is right, whatever is said against me about that, I don't, it doesn't really trouble me.

40:14

When I know I've done something wrong, that's when, and it's said against me, that's when it really, so when people call me out and I'm like, ah, yeah, they're right about this, that one eats me up because they're right.

40:29

When they're wrong, it doesn't really trouble me.

40:30

So I mentioned that because what people have said to me about my motivations and stuff like that, to be honest with you, I usually laugh about it.

40:38

What really upsets me is, so there are people out there who are saying, again, that people who got the vaccine are in sin, they need to repent.

40:50

And there were comments from people, like missionaries in my comment section, who had said, look, I did not wanna get this.

41:00

Similar to me, they thought that it could endanger their life as well, too, or their health.

41:05

But they got the vaccine because they wanted to go preach the gospel in nations, and they had to get the vaccine to do so.

41:15

You won't believe the horrifically evil replies to some of these people.

41:22

And that got me really angry, because we talk about how preaching the gospel, see, there are people, I might get myself in trouble for saying this, but it's my words, not your words, so.

41:40

No, say it, brother, say it, yeah.

41:43

People who are unvaccinated, oftentimes, rightly so, they say that the people who, because of COVID, were so afraid to go to church have forgotten what it means to be a church member, that you hazard your life for your church.

42:06

Now, I'm not saying that you should be unwise and foolish, but that you love the church so much that if you have to hazard your life to love them, that you do so, then yeah, that's what you should do.

42:18

But yet, when it comes to getting the vaccine in order to love your neighbors, who love God's people who need to hear the gospel so they can believe, you say no? You've made an evil idol out of the vaccine to the point that you would say, no, it's better to protect your life than to bring others or to give others hope of eternal life.

42:44

That is absolutely wicked.

42:46

And it just, it really disturbs me that even though I'm vaccinated, I call myself trans, you know, trans-unvaccinated because I forget I'm vaccinated sometimes because I'm like, oh yeah, man, I am vaccinated, aren't I? But I agree 95% with the unvaccinated people primarily.

43:12

But yet on this, I've been very disappointed that there's these evil words.

43:19

I mean, there are pastors who got the vaccine because they wanted to go visit church members in the hospital.

43:24

And people are repeating them saying, why did you do that? You were in sin.

43:28

And that, look, these people are not the majority by any means amongst the unvaccinated Christians, but they are more common than people perhaps would like to believe they are.

43:38

And it really disturbs me that they are, you know, repeating these ungodly words to people on social media or even in person.

43:49

Sure.

43:50

And what's interesting, if a man were to go to the heart of Iraq to share the gospel, knowing that his life would be in danger, knowing that he would be putting himself in front of the potential of being shot to death or beheaded or any of those things, we would applaud such a man as a hero.

44:16

We would say that guy did the right thing because even though his life was in danger, I mean, our missionary, our church supports a missionary goes to Indonesia and he lives in the jungles with his wife and his children.

44:32

Every time they go, they get dingy fever.

44:34

Every time they go, they get malaria.

44:36

Every time they go, they get sick.

44:37

And we're talking about kids from teens down to like newborns.

44:41

I mean, he's got multiple children.

44:44

And you know what people say, that guy's a hero.

44:47

That guy is a gospel herald and we're thankful for him.

44:51

And I am, and we support him with as much as we can financially, prayerfully, all the things that we can to get him there and get him the things that he needs.

45:00

But to know that he puts himself in harm's way by knowing he's gonna get dingy fever, which is based upon his description to me, is not something I'd ever wanna get knowing he's gonna get malaria, which is awful.

45:17

It is a sad thing, what you just said, for someone to call a missionary into question to say, you did this and you're in sin.

45:26

Okay, all right, yeah.

45:28

Yeah, that's because unfortunately, so many people forget the real war that we're fighting.

45:33

The real war is not between the vaccinated and unvaccinated or even the vaccine mandates, when the vaccine mandates are evil.

45:40

But the war is again, Christ and the ungodly, the godly versus the ungodly.

45:49

Yeah, godly versus the ungodly.

45:53

And the, I wrote an article sometime ago was also saying that, look, in light of Romans 14, there are, look, I have no problem saying that some people got the vaccine for sinful reasons, no doubt about it.

46:09

I know some people who did get it for sinful reasons, people who were deathly afraid, people who were not trusting God, but I also know people who got the vaccine for godly reasons.

46:19

In the same way, I know people who didn't get the vaccine for very godly reasons.

46:25

And I know people who also didn't get a vaccine for sinful reasons, because, not because they were being wise, but because they were being prideful in certain things or being, it could be a number of different things, but everybody has on the vaccine issue, since it's an issue of liberty, everyone has godly reasons or ungodly reasons for picking their side, right? It is not getting the vaccine or not getting that makes you godly or not is your motivations, your reasons for getting it or not getting it.

46:55

And so many people have forgotten about that.

46:59

Again, I think for some people, because of pride on both sides, pride or arrogance or partiality, bitterness, they are choosing to go about it, go about their views in a very ungodly way.

47:11

And that's very disappointing.

47:13

Sure.

47:14

And even as we sit here and talk about this, I'm sort of, in my mind, I'm sort of preempting my thoughts as to how people are gonna respond even to this podcast.

47:25

And not that I'm afraid, but I've sort of developed on social media a reputation for being a funny guy.

47:34

But I do serious podcasts and I've been doing serious podcasts for, this is my third year.

47:38

I actually started because of COVID, because people felt so separated and dejected.

47:44

And I wanted to do a, I did a daily program for a year where I just read the Bible and talked about it.

47:49

And after that, it became a weekly show where I did interviews and that's what became Conversation with a Calvinist.

47:55

But this whole thing sort of began out of that.

47:59

And I don't know if some people just think I'm a goofball, but I do have a goofy side, obviously, which makes the funny videos funny.

48:08

But these are serious things.

48:10

And as a pastor, these are real things that we have to address.

48:14

And I hope that people who are listening to this are listening to what you're saying and that we don't just get the response of, well, anybody who did this is stupid or anybody who did this is sinful or anybody who did this is selfish or whatever.

48:30

Because I think you're right in saying, one, it's an issue of liberty.

48:34

Two, by, this is not the gospel.

48:39

The vaccine is not the gospel and the gospel is what unites us and the gospel is what separates us from the world.

48:44

And there are gospel-believing Christians who got the jab.

48:48

There are, and by the way, my plan for the title of this video is should the jab separate us, because I can't even use the word vaccine in my title.

48:57

The, because this has become such a divisive issue, even among non-Christians, that if I were to put, should vaccines separate us, I don't even know if YouTube will let me load it up, because everything is so, everything on this issue is touchy and everybody is so touchy.

49:19

And I get it, I get it.

49:21

I get that there, people have died, people have lost loved ones, people have had to see things happen.

49:28

So I understand that this is not a small subject.

49:31

Now, I appreciate you coming on and talking about a subject that is so serious, because I want people to know that this is, that this is something we should be considering.

49:41

And with that, I wanna ask you another question, because are you and your wife members of a local church? Yes, yeah.

49:50

Are you in leadership there? Are y'all part of the body or how? Yeah, no, I'm just part of the body.

49:59

Asked is her, yeah.

50:00

Her father is the pastor.

50:04

So he's a great pastor, small town Reformed Baptist Church.

50:09

He's been pastoring there for, I think, 40 years.

50:12

It's pretty amazing.

50:14

But yeah, I just became a member there six months ago, I think, after I came.

50:19

So, yeah.

50:21

Well, and the reason why I ask, and that's really cool that your father-in-law is the pastor.

50:24

So you have a little bit of a connection to the leadership.

50:29

So maybe you'll know.

50:30

Maybe you'll know.

50:32

Do you know if your pastor, your father-in-law, has this been an issue within his local body? Or is this just something you're seeing in the broader evangelical social media movement? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, from what I understand, I think in the beginning, there was a small, but I think it had more to do with not the vaccine, but more to do with the lockdowns and the best response to that.

51:01

I think it was more so that.

51:03

I know there's some disputes really with the vaccine, but it was not that major.

51:07

I say they are, but I'm part of the church now.

51:10

I'm still moving.

51:11

But it's a very unified church.

51:14

So it's not been a major issue.

51:16

But I know other churches that I've been a part of that it has been a major issue before I came to this church when I was in Toronto.

51:26

It's been very divisive in many churches, very sadly.

51:30

I mean, there are still churches in Canada that have not really fully opened in many ways.

51:36

That's crazy.

51:37

That's absolutely crazy.

51:39

Yeah, it's insane.

51:42

I know one pastor who just told me that just the lockdowns, the debates over all this stuff, it just destroyed his church.

51:50

It's a small church.

51:52

It's a church of primarily older people.

51:56

And it's a mess.

51:58

So all this stuff, whether it's on the lockdowns or especially the vaccine, it is really wreaking havoc on people's souls.

52:08

Yeah, and that was my reason for asking is because we have a small church too.

52:14

We're a small church in Jacksonville, Florida.

52:17

And early on, our elders had to make decisions that we had never made before.

52:22

We had never faced anything like this.

52:24

And we had to make decisions as best we could with the information that we had, according to God's grace and the leading of the Holy Spirit and our understanding of the word.

52:32

That was our mandate.

52:34

And we did what we thought was right.

52:35

And we did our best.

52:39

And I'm thankful that we have not had, within the church, a divide over this issue where people have called each other names or pointed out whether they're vaccinated or not vaccinated and made that an issue.

52:54

But as you said, there are some churches where vaccination is required.

53:01

Like you have to be vaccinated to come.

53:03

And I don't know, but I'm sure there are some churches out there that are calling for church discipline on the vaccinated because of their lack of faith.

53:14

And that's the kind of thing I think we're addressing, right? Is that it is on either side.

53:19

Because you wouldn't support a church that says you have to be vaccinated to come here.

53:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

53:26

No, absolutely not.

53:28

You said earlier, you don't support, you think vaccine mandates are wrong.

53:34

Yes, yeah.

53:35

Vaccine mandates are absolutely evil.

53:38

It's interesting.

53:39

You mentioned how you're not gonna put the word vaccine in the title of YouTube because you know what will happen.

53:46

You know, it's interesting.

53:48

Over the last, my words in the vaccine has been so heavily against the vaccine mandates that it's become very obvious.

53:56

I mean, I've received so many restrictions and suspension from Facebook over this issue.

54:03

So I find it so fascinating that now for some people, I've become this vaccine supporter.

54:11

But no, I'm completely against the vaccine mandates, the partiality in churches.

54:16

I know people, man, it was so common in so many places in Canada where people couldn't go to church because they were not vaccinated, they weren't vaccinated.

54:25

So yeah, completely against it.

54:28

Yeah, absolutely.

54:29

And that's the thing.

54:31

Obviously we have to have the freedom over our bodies to be able to say, no, we're not gonna do this.

54:40

And I know there are some who would tie the vaccine with, and forgive me, because this may seem like it's coming out of left field, but there are some who would tie the vaccine mandates to things like the mark of the beast.

54:53

And you end up getting your dispensational friends getting very worked up because they, if somebody is using a thermometer which points at your forehead, they say, oh, well that thermometer is getting you ready for the mark of the beast and all that.

55:06

And again, I get it.

55:08

People, I grew up listening to Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins get us prepared for the coming rapture and the seven year tribulations.

55:18

I know what, I know those things.

55:21

And I'm not saying that- Oh, oh, oh.

55:25

I'm so sorry.

55:26

No worries, no worries, it happens.

55:27

It happens.

55:28

So I know, like I said, there are some, and I do think there is some, even though I'm not dispensationalist, even though I have a different eschatology and different view of things like the mark of the beast, I would say there are, there is some fear, and I think right fear.

55:46

When I say this, I know as Christians, we're not supposed to fear, but I do think there is some right concern, maybe is a better word, for any time the government would say, you have to do this to be able to transact commerce.

56:00

You have to do this to be able to travel.

56:02

You have to do this to be able to, to be able to continue to have your children in school, which, you know, that's a whole other conversation because maybe you should homeschool.

56:14

But you understand, these are the things that I think the people on the other side, and to be gracious to those who would be anti-vax, I think a lot of them are saying their concern is, I don't want to be forced to do anything because that's a slippery slope.

56:34

And you would agree with that, you would, yeah.

56:37

Absolutely.

56:38

I'm, you know, in many ways, again, I'm part of that anti-vaccine camp.

56:45

I'm absolutely part of that camp whatsoever.

56:48

I can say things that I'm not even sure if I want to say about how my fear of, my fear, my concerns about the COVID vaccine has made me very, I don't trust the so-called experts on a lot more other issues, including perhaps even other vaccines the way I would have before.

57:11

So I'm very much in that camp in many ways.

57:14

And absolutely, what happened with the mandates is really just eye-opening.

57:19

And, you know, I think, look, I think there are some legitimate reasons to be concerned about why some Christians so easily got the vaccine.

57:30

Now, I'm not saying, again, getting the vaccine is sinful, but there are many people who did not really think through it the way they should have.

57:37

Many of them just thought, oh, well, if the government is forcing me to do it, then I should just do it, without thinking it through.

57:43

And while I am not a DSP by any means, there is something about how quickly are you going to be complying to the government? And so I'm completely there.

57:56

I thought through all of that myself, right? So I think there's nothing wrong with people challenging Christians to say, look, hey, like, I'll tell you, so I know people, dear loved ones, who I think, yeah, you got the vaccine out of sin.

58:11

You did so because of fear.

58:14

But that's because I know them, right? I know how they were thinking.

58:17

They've told me that, and they would say, yeah, you know, Sam, you're right.

58:20

So there's some people out there who got it for sinful reasons.

58:23

And I think, you know, anytime people are so quickly to comply with the government over something they don't want to do, that is a concern.

58:35

But of course, doesn't mean that every single person that does comply hasn't thought it through.

58:42

And I think that's the concern that I have.

58:45

In the same way that people were saying, hey, people who have not gotten the vaccine, they're doing so because they're not loving their neighbor.

58:52

I'm like, well, some people, that might be their reasons, because they don't care.

58:55

But perhaps others have thought it through, but just think, yeah, I just don't think it's good for me or for my neighbor.

59:02

So too many people are being so rash to condemn others.

59:08

And that's the thing that really concerns me the most.

59:12

Yeah, absolutely.

59:13

And like you said, there are legitimate concerns.

59:19

There are legitimate things that people have done.

59:21

And then there were illegitimate ones.

59:24

There were reasons that they were overly scared and allowed fear to win the day.

59:35

And, you know, we have a lot to consider there.

59:40

You know, how do we deal with a brother that may be weaker in that area? That may be, you know, do we love them and encourage them or do we condemn them and divide from them? And again, this comes back to the issue of liberty, the issue of conscience, the issue of, you know, talking through, like you and I are sort of talking through this and actually hearing each other.

01:00:08

And I remember the day Florida went on lockdown because we had begun a construction project at the church where we were changing all our fluorescent lights for some new LED lights.

01:00:24

And that was just because of the need for updating.

01:00:27

So I was part of a crew that was doing that.

01:00:30

Even though I was a pastor, I was still part of the crew that was working on this electrical thing because we wanted to save money, so we did it ourselves.

01:00:37

And I had some guys with me.

01:00:40

So it was me and Brother Dan and then two other gentlemen who were with us.

01:00:44

And we were up and down a scissor lift all day.

01:00:47

Well, we were talking about the COVID and all this stuff that had happened, but we didn't know about the lockdown.

01:00:54

We didn't know what was happening.

01:00:56

So we get in my truck to go to lunch.

01:00:59

I say, okay, guys, let's go to lunch.

01:01:01

And we hop in my truck, we go down to Arby's, which is only a mile from our church.

01:01:05

We walk into Arby's at 1130 on a Tuesday, I think it was.

01:01:10

And all of the tables are like roped off and the seats are up on the tables.

01:01:17

And it says, no dining inside.

01:01:21

That was the sign.

01:01:22

It says, you can order your food and go, but you can't dine inside.

01:01:27

And I remember looking at Brother Dan, who was with me, and I said, Dan, our world just changed in a way I've never seen.

01:01:35

I've never seen the, this is gonna change everything.

01:01:39

I remember saying that, Tim.

01:01:40

I remember saying, this is the, because again, I'm 42 years old and I've seen a lot of things.

01:01:46

I mean, I remember watching 9-11, that changed the world.

01:01:49

I remember watching this space shuttle Challenger explode.

01:01:54

That was a life-changing moment for many people watching it happen.

01:01:58

But this was a life, this was a world-changing moment because the world said, in the event of a danger, we're gonna close up shop and we're gonna stop.

01:02:10

And I said, this is, the willingness to do this is gonna be, is gonna have far-reaching effects.

01:02:19

Yeah, I completely agree.

01:02:21

And so I only tell that story to simply say, I understand in one sense, the side that says, you know, we have allowed fear to drive us to a dangerous area.

01:02:35

But at the same time, you agree with that.

01:02:37

We've already, we've sort of, we've already said that.

01:02:40

But at the same time, how do we address those who disagree with us? How do we address those who come to a different conclusion on an issue that's not the gospel? And when we make something the gospel that isn't the gospel, we're doing the very thing Paul warns us not to do in Galatians chapter one.

01:03:00

Yeah, that's a great, great point.

01:03:03

And if I could just add one more thing to this too.

01:03:06

Yeah.

01:03:07

My closest friend, my, just my guy, he and I are very, very, very close.

01:03:15

I have two brothers biologically.

01:03:17

He's my third brother.

01:03:19

He and I are very tight.

01:03:21

He and I are equally anti-vaccine, anti-vaccine mandates, all of that.

01:03:28

He lost his job for the last two years, a job that paid well.

01:03:33

He had, he has two young children, like toddlers, and he lost his job over the vaccine.

01:03:40

He said, no, he would not get it.

01:03:43

I told him if he, because there were times where when he financially, they were suffering over the last two years.

01:03:50

He's like, Sam, I don't want to, but I'm thinking maybe should I? And I would say, no, don't do it.

01:03:55

If you do it, you'd be in sin.

01:03:57

Because his conscience was fully convinced that it's, he should not get it.

01:04:04

That he is convinced that if he, if he gets it, he's dishonoring the Lord.

01:04:08

I said, well, you can't dishonor your Lord.

01:04:09

You can't, you have to make sure you don't get the vaccine.

01:04:14

In the same way, when I had to make the choice between me getting the vaccine or not, my brother, who absolutely hates the vaccine, hates the mandates, hates everything.

01:04:28

And he will still say today that if I had not gotten the vaccine because of what I was fully convinced over, I would be in sin.

01:04:40

So here is my brother.

01:04:42

He and I are very, very close.

01:04:44

We agree on everything, but we both had to make two different choices on something that we both agree on.

01:04:52

And we both did it by the grace of God out of what we thought would honor God.

01:04:57

We're not perfect, so we could be wrong on a number of things, but we know that our goal was to please the Lord.

01:05:07

And that, so me knowing him and I and the blessing that God has given us in our friendship, we see what is happening in society on this issue.

01:05:18

And that really grieves us because so many people don't understand it.

01:05:23

Again, you can be fully convinced in your own mind in a way that you can disagree with somebody who is fully convinced in the opposing way.

01:05:34

And that's okay.

01:05:36

Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:38

And not that this is the same issue.

01:05:42

And I don't know where you stand on this, so I'm maybe opening up another can of worms.

01:05:46

And we're getting close to the end of the program, so I don't wanna go too far.

01:05:49

But I posted just a few weeks ago on my Twitter page a reference to alcohol because it was the anniversary of the day that prohibition of alcohol was lifted.

01:06:06

It was the anniversary of the, because alcohol was prohibited early in the 20th century and prohibition led to the creating of stills and the creating of a black market for alcohol and all these things.

01:06:18

And when prohibition was lifted, that's a day on the calendar.

01:06:22

And I just happened to post and all my reform brethren said, amen.

01:06:26

That was my trying to make an attempt at humor, right? All my reform brethren said, amen.

01:06:32

And man, I got it from all sides.

01:06:35

Why would you encourage people to drink? Why would you encourage people to do alcohol? Why would you stand? Don't you know how many people die in car accidents because of alcohol? Don't you know how many people this? And again, I appreciate everybody who leaves a comment on my page, even the people who disagree with me.

01:06:51

I don't mind that.

01:06:52

As putting myself out there, I know I'm opening myself up to people who disagree.

01:06:57

I get that, I get that.

01:06:58

But the point I was making was not so much this celebration of drinking because I know Christians have different convictions on this.

01:07:09

But the point I was making was the celebration of the freedom to make that choice.

01:07:14

When the government made the choice and said, nobody gets to drink.

01:07:19

When the government made the choice and said, nobody gets to have alcohol.

01:07:22

Well, then it's no longer a Christian liberty issue.

01:07:25

Now it's an issue of that.

01:07:28

And when the prohibition was lifted, I was just saying, this is a good thing that now Christians who have this liberty can exercise this liberty and those who choose not to are able to not to.

01:07:38

And we ought to be able to love one another enough to understand that there's a difference there.

01:07:42

And again, I know somebody's gonna leave me a comment.

01:07:44

Somebody's gonna say, how could you endorse drinking? I didn't endorse drinking.

01:07:46

I endorsed freedom.

01:07:47

I endorsed liberty.

01:07:50

And whether or not I drink is nobody else's business because I don't go out publicly drinking.

01:07:57

But do you understand? I hope that, does that make sense that I just go on a weird tangent? It absolutely makes sense.

01:08:03

I think I've learned over the last several years that everyone loves liberty when it gives them liberty to do what they want.

01:08:11

Not when it gives people, it is agree with liberty to do what they want.

01:08:15

So that's oftentimes what, now look, I'll say this too as a side.

01:08:21

I don't, I'm just saying this.

01:08:24

I don't understand alcohol.

01:08:26

It tastes awful to me.

01:08:27

It tastes awful.

01:08:28

It's coffee.

01:08:29

I don't get coffee.

01:08:29

I don't get alcohol.

01:08:30

I'm a weird guy.

01:08:32

My wife, just when she hears this, she's gonna, she's, because coffee is, boy, that's her.

01:08:39

Oh, trust me, my wife.

01:08:41

My wife was, I'm like, it tastes awful.

01:08:43

Why? So anyway, but yet if someone wants to drink, feel free so long as they don't sin or as long as they don't get drunk.

01:08:50

That's right.

01:08:51

Yeah.

01:08:51

Well, I'll tell you this, brother.

01:08:52

If you are ever in Jacksonville, just know that I'll be happy to take you and your wife with my wife to the nearest coffee shop.

01:08:58

And you and I, and you and I can have hot chocolate while they drink coffee because I don't drink coffee either.

01:09:04

I'm like you.

01:09:05

I think it's, I have no, I have no idea why it's the drug of choice for so many people.

01:09:12

You're clearly a very wise man with good taste.

01:09:15

Amen.

01:09:15

Amen.

01:09:16

Well, brother, I think that was very thoughtful.

01:09:19

The things that you've said, and I hope that what people get out of this is not whether, not an endorsement or a non-endorsement for vaccinations or non-vaccinations, but rather an endorsement to love your neighbor, to consider them more important than yourself when it comes to how you treat them, as that's what the scripture tells us, to love one another, encourage one another, and even in our disagreements, be willing to have deference one for the other.

01:09:46

And again, go back and read Romans 14.

01:09:50

Paul was not talking about vaccinations there, but there's a broad application which can be made from that text into many areas of life.

01:10:00

And it all comes down to this, before his master will each servant stand.

01:10:05

And we have to keep that in mind when we're seeking to love our brothers and sisters in Christ.

01:10:11

So thank you, Sam, for being on the program.

01:10:13

Did you have anything else you wanted to say before we begin to sign off? Honestly, I've had so much fun with this.

01:10:18

It's been great.

01:10:19

So thank you.

01:10:20

I really enjoyed it.

01:10:22

Well, would you be willing to come back on another day and talk about something else? Absolutely not.

01:10:26

No, I'm kidding.

01:10:26

Yeah, I would love that.

01:10:28

Well, I'm glad.

01:10:29

Well, we'll look forward to having you again sometime.

01:10:31

I'll reach out to you in the future and we'll do this again.

01:10:34

Maybe on a subject that won't get me banned.

01:10:38

No problem.

01:10:39

All right.

01:10:40

Well, thank you for being on the program, brother.

01:10:42

Thank you.

01:10:44

And I want to thank you all for listening to the program today and being a part of this discussion.

01:10:48

I want to remind you again that we are on YouTube.

01:10:52

And if you're not watching this on YouTube, if you are listening from another platform, if you want to win the book, you have to go to the YouTube page and leave a comment, your favorite Southern phrase in the comment section.

01:11:04

And I will take those, I will put those numbers or those names in a randomizer.

01:11:10

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01:11:13

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01:11:16

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01:11:20

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01:11:24

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01:11:30

And I want to thank you again for listening to Conversations with a Calvinist.

01:11:33

My name is Keith Foskey, and I have been your Calvinist.

01:11:37

May God bless you.