YourCalvinist Podcast VETERANS DAY LIVESTREAM

Hey guys, I want to welcome you to a very special live edition of your Calvinist podcast today

We're going to be talking about a very serious subject and that is the number 22 according to Josh holler in his book redeeming warriors 22 is the number of Veterans that commit suicide every day.

This is a serious topic and Josh is a is a pastor He's a godly man and we have him along with a very special guest today to talk about this subject

To talk about what it's like to be a Christian serving in the military and how we as Christians can pray for those who are

In the military, so stay tuned your Calvinist podcast begins right now

Sometimes Your Calvinist podcast is filmed before a live studio audience and again, welcome to your

Calvinist podcast My name is Keith Foskey. And as always I am your Calvinist Want to remind you that this show is a ministry of Sovereign Grace Family Church So if you are in the

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All right guys I don't want to delay any more getting to our special guests and our first guest is

Joshua Holler he is a Lead he is the lead pastor of First Baptist Church in st.

John's, Missouri He's been married to Laura for 14 years and is the father of five an author of redeeming warriors veteran suicide grieving and the fight for faith

He earned a BA from Wheaton College and MDiv from Covenant Theological Seminary and is a PhD candidate and ethics and biblical studies at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Josh is also an adjunct professor of philosophy at Missouri Baptist University Josh I want to welcome you to the show.

Oh Sorry, I had you on mute. Let me unmute you. Go ahead. I say it's pleasure to be with the the Harbor Freight Doug Wilson Yes Yes, sir.

Absolutely for those who don't know that the joke is I am of course the

Harbor Freight version of Doug Wilson Which means I'm less less less money, but high quality high quality theology at lower prices

So I want to thank you for being on Josh and I want to tell you something I have gone through your book and I was very encouraged by it

One just learning many things that I did not know I'm a I'm a son of a

Military veteran and I'm a father of a military veteran. My father served in Vietnam In fact,

I had this I just wanted to mention It is Veterans Day. This is me and my dad this morning

He came over to the house. My dad served in Vietnam and he's still wearing his veterans hat He's very proud of his service and we're proud of him.

And my son is currently serving in the United States Air Force he's in New Mexico a

Spent three years in Germany and now is back in the United States serving and and says he wants to finish out his 20

So by God's grace, we'll pray that he is able to continue to do that So again,

I'm just so thankful to have you on the show and I'm thankful to tell everybody about Another guest that we have on the show and I know you know who it is, but they don't

I said it was a mystery guest and I Did that to hopefully drum up a little bit of Surprise interest and for people who don't know who this man is

I'm gonna tell you something you need to get to know who this man is. I want to bring him in right now This is Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, he is an author.

He is a Speaker, he speaks all around the United States and around the world on Various subjects, but the subject that I I learned about him on is through his seminar the bulletproof mind

He did a seminar that he teaches to military and law enforcement on how to survive

Deadly encounters and how to survive not only the physical but also the mental stress of dealing with a deadly encounter

I sat through eight hours of this man's seminar the only thing we did was stop to take breaks to go to the bathroom and get he would always say you're in levels down caffeine levels up and get back in here and I Remember that to this day.

I can't say that in church, but I But I want to say thank you

Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman for coming on the show And being with us today as well. My honor

Keith. I was not it'd be important to you. Well done, brother And for those who don't know he's been on the show with me before we we interviewed him about church safety and church security

Several years ago. And so if you go back into the show Archives of the podcast you'll find that I've had him on the show and and I'm so thankful Just to just to be able to call you a friend and someone that I truly respect read your material read your books

He did he did on killing on combat and you know, many other books, but those books like you said

Josh you were a Marine That's right. So you said those books were required reading. Yeah Part is so to give it back to the

Lord to have on spiritual combat, you know, we talked about in the Combat I know, you know on killing what's it about on spiritual combat?

And then we got him and that's what the books all about is to help lay that foundation to be a

Be warriors for Christ. Mm -hmm. Amen. I mean Josh you were gonna say you were gonna say something.

Yeah Yeah, it's just part of the the common on to recommended reading list And so yeah, we I everybody that I know has read it as both those books.

I haven't read that third one, though I'll have to pull them run that direction Josh. You'll touch some lives and the sequel of that one's out

On spiritual combat is basic training equipment issue Ephesians chapter 6 prayer drills and then on spiritual warfare is advanced training and We've got the bulletproof marriage goes with it to 90 day devotional

So we've been able to you know to hear it as I'm kind of on the the back half of my career.

I'm 68 I want to stay in the fight for another 20 years But that give it back to the

Lord now take all that that he's given me and Commandants list and pointed back to the Lord and praise

God for the opportunity and and Keith what an honor to be on your show I remember well last time and eager to be on board this time neat stuff

Excellent. Well, thank you again, sir, and I want to toss it over to Josh real quick because your book as I said

It really is it's a it's a strong read I would say a difficult read because you tell life store real life stories of men that you know who have

Who have taken their own lives? And who are veterans and I I think most of us in our families or extended families and friends

Know of at least someone Who who has been in that situation? It's so common so sadly common that that so many of us would know someone

But I want to ask this question sort of to get the ball rolling and we're gonna talk we're gonna dive in a little bit

To this issue, but just to ask this this one question Why did you feel the need to write this book?

I know that I know that's an important subject But this is a subject that is often taboo, especially in Christian circles man

So suicides a hard topic people don't want to talk about it People don't want to ask the difficult questions that go with it and you're opening yourself up by writing this book

You're opening yourself up to a lot of questions that people don't want to deal with But what was the onus on your heart?

What caused you to want to do this? Yeah, I think it was two things One was you know,

I'm not sure if I was a Christian when I was in the military I grew up in a Christian home group. Actually, I went to it.

I wasn't wearing a pacifist tradition Mennonite brethren And I joined the Marine Corps. Yeah.

Oh, obviously not a pacifist by any stretch left home and I had

I knew the things of Lord, but I just saw a lot of brokenness and you know bites by God's grace, you know my first deployment

I don't think there was an injury in the entire battalion our first point That's not true.

The second a few people died a couple of we got shot but it was coming to faith or The very least actually walking my faith whether I came to Christian earlier or later or whatever

Was the first thing and then secondly, well, you know So seeing how my life wasn't matching up to to the gospel to it scripture calls us to but then secondly

Having lost nine friends to suicide after having been deployed and I'm coming home and I'm looking at my experience and the impression that I had was that in order to To PT in order to commit suicide you have to have

PTSD which means you had to have seen just hair Just terrible things in combat and that wasn't really matching my experience

I mean by God's grace that my seniors like Protected us we several times IEDs were set in for us and they didn't go off We spotted them that sort of thing

And so I'm looking at my experience to say what what is what is happening several of these guys a few of them have seen

Combat, but some of them didn't So what is it that's causing them to slip into this depression then and then to take their own life and that?

Caused me to do to do a deep dive into I think into the story and realize that there's some insufficiencies with the

With how we talk about veterans suicide PTSD Becomes the focus but it's not the only thing that's going on Yeah, absolutely and So you you became a

Christian you you believe or at least started really following Christ when you were in the military or since well

When did that happen? Yeah, I think I think well it was when I was in college

Or going to a church. We were part of an ABC Church American Baptist Church a very liberal Church Which I don't have any categories for that kind of thing theological liberalism

But a very conservative pastor and really what was happening as I was just being discipled He would he's like hey, you want to preach sometime and I preached

Dave I break a vision six and you know, the the the piece of armor that's that's missing

Is it is one that Paul doesn't use a metaphor for but it's prayer, you know It's like it's the wartime walkie -talkie.

I was a terrible sermon and he's just like hey Let's do it again sometime and he was discipling me and pretty soon

I'm doing this degree in international relations thinking I want to work in the State Department. I'm realizing all my time

I'm listening to people like James White and I'm I'm coming to a reformed understanding the faith I didn't know what that was at the time

Jeff Durbin an apology. He doesn't even know this but he was an influence to me I'm listening to these

RTS church lectures but really all suddenly there's this passion for the Word of God and for theology and pretty soon my pastor was like You know, have you considered going to seminary now background to this?

This is going to my testimony a little bit I was in deep sin guys. I'm Growing up into life.

I was I think my kids are watching. So what my wife can pause as she want to But I was addicted to pornography.

I was this was something I took into my marriage I thought and uh, and I was just I was just broken over this and I knew that I was living a life contrary to what scripture

Would have me live and I was listening to these church lectures on Augustin and his own brokenness in this area where he he would go to Babylon and roll in his own filth and Ointment and to would want to be easily seduced and later.

He would write Lord grant me celibacy Dot -dot -dot You know ellipsis but not yet and I'm like, well, that's me like I was having this battle of sin like Paul You know the things

I don't want to do I do the things I shouldn't do, you know What wicked man and that I am who will free me from this bondage of sin and it wasn't until I was in summer

Greek At Covenant Seminary, I approached our pastor and I was like I need to confess to somebody what's going on So and he's you know, so thank you for being vulnerable with me and in that sort of thing

But you need to first pray Psalm 51 against you and you Lord You alone

Lord have I sinned and be reconciled of God and then go be reconciled with with your wife

And so I don't know in that continuum at what point did that I was a

Christian way back then I just I just floundered and wasn't being discipled or was I later discipled but at that moment at least

For sure I was repenting and turning to Christ and following in faith and I was later later baptized and been walking with the

Lord since brother Amen. Well praise the Lord for that and I do want to I want to jump back over to I'm gonna call you brother

Dave I just can't call you Dave. You said to call you Dave, but I just can't do it So can I call you brother Dave? Okay, that's in our church like all the pastors and everybody generally generally that's a title we say but brother

Can you just tell everybody for those who don't know I've heard your testimony But can you tell everybody how you became a

Christian and and and were you in the military when that happened? There was it before I was in the military didn't grow up in a

Christian home married a wonderful Christian girl I was going to night school as a young young sergeant.

I wanted to go to OCS and I had to get certain amount of college credit to go there first and I ended up taking a philosophy class and The guy that taught the class night school was a dr.

David Howell And he was local pastor a philosophy degree at Duke University And he really showed me

I was I'm really smart science geeky type guy And he really showed me that that coming to the

Lord was the most rational and logical thing on the planet That I came to the Lord my head and then later of my heart and and it's been a steady growing process

But when I I everyone knows my book on killing on combat both Marine Corps commandants required reading list

When the opportunity came to do on spiritual combat, I Might my greatest spiritual growth has really been in recent years

I've been a pastor. I've been a deacon. I Presented them that done so many things and yep

I started writing those books and on spiritual combat then on spiritual warfare as a sequel I feel like it's an ever -evolving thing.

There wasn't a single moment in time But between my wife and I ended up serving as a deacon and in David Howell's Church, they're disciples of Christ we're also kind of a liberal left -wing

Church, but I've moved to the right ever since but what a beautiful opportunity to Grow and thrive a young sergeant going to the night school

Learning about that. It's a rational thing. And here's the important thing. We're scared down right up front The most important thing universe it really did happen

Jesus really did die on the cross He really did rise from the dead and we know this because 11 of the 12 disciples

Were martyred for mineral died for a lie And then the disciples of the disciples died and that's straight -up

Roman history Nobody can refute it and people don't die. They didn't want to die that they made it clear that no, it really did happen

I'm not gonna rip, you know, I'll just I was just big story. We made it up Oh cool, you can go but they wouldn't do that.

Not you don't lose your salvation. Somebody threatens your family Okay, I don't believe but you don't lose your salvation

But these people they really knew if you kill me, I will be with Jesus right now

I know it because I saw him come back from the dead It really did happen and that's that kind of rational side of the whole equation that I rolled with ever since Amen amen.

Well, thank you for that. And it's interesting. You mentioned disciples of Christ. I grew up in a disciples of Christ Church I'm a reformed

Baptist pastor now, but but I we have that connection that I didn't realize so that's that's interesting.

Yeah, so Josh your book Again, it's called redeeming warriors and I'm gonna have a link to it in the description

If anybody wants to get a copy I definitely recommend you doing that and part of the reason why I invited brother

Dave on tonight is because I Noticed when I was going through the book that he did an endorsement for it

I was like, well, hey if he endorsed it, you know He believes in it and and and believes in what it says and and I was encouraged by that.

So I'm thankful To be able to make that connection Josh the the first story you tell

In the book and I don't want to give too much away I promise no spoilers in the sense of for the book

But but you talk about the first suicide that you that you dealt with And you were

I believe if I remember correctly you were in your first post or and it was somebody that nobody expected

For this to happen and and now you say you've gone through Didn't you say nine people that you know?

It's nine is when I wrote the book if that number is actually up to 11 now Oh heavens

What is in your estimation? What has been if there is any

Links in the chain other than the fact these men all served in the military has there has there been something That you know because a lot of people like you said a lot of people tie it to PTSD But you're saying that's it's not always the case.

But is there something else that you have noticed that you can Bring out tonight and say this is this is something that that links things together

Yeah, I think when it comes to the issue veteran suicide It's not if I could summarize it in this way it's not so much of a problem what's wrong with Veterans or you know our service members.

Well, what's wrong with us as a society that the veteran experience is exacerbating and I think

What what we're revealing like, you know veterans haven't changed precisely. What's what's wrong with society is what's being exacerbated?

So these it's an upstream problem There's a few ways I get I suppose I could get at this

But what particularly with the people that I knew and then we could talk larger trends

It was easiest to almost identify a suicide vulnerable person if you could kick like think of a three three -legged stool of faith family and friends and if you kick one of The legs of that support system out

That's like a it's a it lowers that threshold against that person you kick two out or a third one out

And it's almost that that person is gonna be so much more vulnerable when it comes to especially when they're off of active duty

Transitioning back into life dealing with community and so forth So for example, if you're an atheist, you don't believe that there is any good or any purpose to life or at bottom

There's just there's no good or evil. It's just like what Dawkins is just blind and pitiless indifference Well, who cares that if you look if you live or die like that's against you

If your family if you came from an estranged family where one or more of your parents are divorced or you're at odds

If you're your brothers and sisters and so forth Who do you go to and one of the things is like as veterans?

It's we don't typically go to our fellow brothers and sisters veterans We live all over the United States and that's that's a hard thing was like we get this tight -knit community for this for If you're blessed beyond that six years

Maybe eight years to enlistments with these guys you bond to go together these amazing things some hard things and then you're just spread to the four winds and So then when you have somebody like me and they go into college and you feel

I'm gonna risk a cultural reference here You feel like happy happy Gilmore, right? I'm sorry,

Billy Madison Billy Madison going back to school and there's all these look these kids that are

Entitled complaining about how mom and daddy aren't paying for all their schooling and I'm I'm here doing this

Either the GI Bill cuz mommy daddy couldn't pay for me, you know, I don't want to identify with them So I'm not gonna get a tight into the community

And so then I start to use to do the things that I used to cope while I was in the military

This speaking more broadly and it's with drinking which was a praise thing. And so you can see the experiences that were

Taken in the middle like I'll you know drinking to excess alcoholism and so forth You take that and just kind of plot out what's going to happen when this person leaves the military

This person would be so much more vulnerable and it takes like the friend thing to like, you know friendships change considerably when you when you go home and The guys that didn't deployed didn't join the military and you're like wow, we're different people

We've experienced different things and it's not like they just pause the friendship We've we've just kind of grown apart

So if you could take you know Look at that faith family friends thing and just see how the military experience alters and changes that and if you remove one of those one of those

Support systems on that on that truck that triage there that that tripod. That's a way to identify

Somebody's going to be suicide vulnerable that's that's a quick stab at that we can go to some more the details on the how to identify some those things upstream, but Well, I'm gonna

I want to do that I do want to I'm gonna ask brother Dave one one question the moment he brought up before the show

Another indicator or I think it was sleep deprivation was the thing that he wanted to bring up someone I'm gonna toss it to him but before I do that you you've mentioned family and I have a legitimate question and This is coming from a non -military member.

I I did not serve in the military I'm proud of my son

I'm proud of my father, but I did not personally serve So I'm speaking as an outsider when it comes to this. So I'm gonna ask this question.

It seems as if when someone goes into the service At least in some of the experience

I've seen it could be could just be anecdotal could just be my experience But it seems as if like there's almost an intended

Taking away from family like it seems like everywhere They put my son has been so far away from us

We and and and and and I don't know if that's been like intentional or if it just happens to be

I mean he he he Was in Arizona for a year after he after he got out of his he's a crew chief on ff 16

Or yeah, he's crew chief on f -16. So he's in Arizona. Then they moved him to Germany where he served for three years now, he's back in New Mexico.

We live in Florida He's never been close enough to see him. I feel like he has been taken away from his family and and again

I'm not complaining. This is his this is what he wants to do, but I do wonder is is somebody said one time

Will they take you away from? Family and people because there might be bad influence and things have you ever heard that or is that a is that a good?

reason or am I I I don't think Okay, I don't think that's necessarily

Intentional because for example the Navy and Marine Corps bases are almost almost all

Located near water except for like 29 palms, which is where I was But nobody wants to live there,

I think that would be more incidental Okay, I had to ask because again my wife

My wife and I have wondered like is he choosing this? Does he just not want to be you know? What mom and dad breathing down his neck we miss our son and I and I hope if he watches this

He knows how much I love him because I do I do miss him so much I've got a grandson deployed right now

My son retired after 27 years and I'm combat there was no my grandson's in Kuwait right now.

I know what you mean, you know, they They're away, you know, we're only in one spot. It doesn't hold the world of places where they could be that we're not

But we sure miss them when they're out. Yeah Amen. Well brother Dave you you mentioned about the sleep deprivation and this was one of the because we we talked about faith family and friends

But you said there are other other things that can be There's a there's a global explosion of suicide

I Worked a lot law enforcement. We lose more cops to suicide than every other line of duty death put together

We've had a record number of cops murdered in the line of duty but we lose more cops their own hand than every other line of duty death put together and At tweenagers said 11 12 year teenage girls suicide rate is tripled

The new factor in the equation is just global explosion of sleep deprivation and and you really got to understand this the

Every living organism is this powerful drive to self -preservation When Tesla take your own life is very very hard Alcohol has always been the catalyst to put you over the top

You've got all these problems and and then you add alcohol and it makes it

Biologically possible to overcome that resistance take your own life but but now we know sleep deprivation works exactly the same way and only drunk for a brief window and Tweenage girls are not getting drunk, you know you know lesson number one for Parenting 21st century when the syndicated bed at night take their cell phone away from them

I I had a cop come up to me of the link between sleep deprivation and suicide

So do an online search suicide sleep deprivation. It's not just a factor. It's the most remediable factor

We can't do much about your relationships right now. We can't do much about your finance. We'll get you good night's sleep right now

So a cop came up to me He's I talked about this.

He said I had a good girl He said she was an a student She said dad, it's embarrassing.

You don't have to take my cell phone every night You can trust me the family policy itself. I'm gonna charge you go to bed. It's okay.

I trust you keep your cell phone He's a little while later. She took her life. He said my little girl took her life

And we never knew the hell she was living in and then we looked at the text messages on her cell phone

Night after night of ceaseless relentless vicious bullying and he can't just ignore that we're not wired this way

He said was heart -rending syrup all night long night after night trying to defend herself

He said I immediately understood my little girl was bullied to death what I didn't understand until now

Is she was sleep -deprived? Tormented and bulleted from eyes and I let it happen

He said I can't ignore that text message in the middle of the night. How can we expect our kids to so understand this?

Every every community except except the Mennonites and the Amish Every community has seen an explosion of suicide and the new factor

Sleep deprivation is just like being drunk 24 hours without sleep is just like blowing 0 .10

above legally drunk And so sleep deprivation impairs your judgment and they make a bad decision every the test rethink it

So when we start looking at things, uh, was he sleep -deprived? Oh, it's on social media all that long.

Well, what's she sleep -deprived? Oh, yeah She played video games all night long And it's the one component we get a hold of and and and be conscious of how it's exploded

Every age group every community and the one thing we make doggone sure is we get good quality sleep

And and and that's the new Ingredient globally, that's the catalyst that allows you to overcome that powerful

God -given resistance that take your own life You know, I'm I'm reminded and again,

I can't tell you how much I enjoyed coming to the seminar and I did it twice Here in Jacksonville when you did it for JSO I did it.

I think it was two years in a row you you you invited me to come I was only non -leo there, but but I was a

Pastor and and you allowed me to come I was very grateful But I remember in that class you talked about of the value of sleep

You carried a sleep mask in your shirt sleeve pocket and you you talked about making it dark so you could be asleep and I if I remember this correctly and you

Say it the right way But I'll say what I remember you saying and that is something to the effect of you If you're sleep -deprived you can get it back a good night's sleep can restart the how did you say that am

I getting it? It's the most remediable factor. That's what we can't do much about your relationships right now

We can't do much about your finances right now, but we can get you good night's sleep right stinking now

You know, I just taught all of East Texas school safety seminar all day long

I said look, you know, we're gonna talk about keeping your school safe from violence Well, you're pretty good. You haven't made murders

Bet you had some suicides Bet you had traffic deaths. I bet you had mental illness and the link between sleep deprivation and suicide

Sleep deprivation traffic deaths sleep deprivation mental illness is you do study in one of those sleep?

Deprivation is a factor. It causes chronic pain. Why why opiates the opiate epidemic, you know

We lose more people to fentanyl Then every year than the entire Vietnam War we lose 70 80 ,000

Americans fentanyls an opiate prescription opiates I've always been there. Why are they the drug of choice? well sleep deprivation creates chronic pain and so, you know when you look around at this global explosion of Sleep deprivation the video games of social media the head of Netflix said their competitor is sleep

Their corporate policies just steal your sleep So these video games And in the social media and the other things that are happening

We got to fight back as we love our family if you love our way life We've got to get sleep and sleep is a biological blind spot

Your body knows how to get air food water Talk about the air food water your body will take over but your body doesn't know how to make you get enough sleep

It's a biological blind spot. It always happened. Actually it got dark So we got to make it happen and and and and and I told these this the school safety seminar

You want to walk out that door and save a kid's life you teach sleep hygiene right now Tell them how many hours sleep they need based on their age

Tell them how to calculate that tell them to sleep in total darkness and tell them to the shut off caffeine

Shortly at lunch just three things as an adult. You need seven hours of sleep or more

I think you've got to cut off caffeine shortly after lunch and you've got to sleep in total darkness

And that's where the sleep mask comes in and and and and if we taught that in the second grade

We'd walk out the door and save lives suicide traffic deaths drug overdoses right now right now

So that's that's that's that a piece of the equation that we don't often know about where we can get a grip on it right now

Absolutely. I've been watching the comments while we're talking and it seems like we got several guys who have served in the military who are

Out there. So I want to just say from from all of me to all of you. Thank you for your service

Thank you for being on the show and watching and this gentleman here just posted and I think this is good

I think he's referring to sleep. He says it is a necessary gift of God and I think That's right right way to to discuss that.

So thank you f4 garage. We appreciate that I'm assuming that's has something to do with planes

Just piggyback off something you said Dave yes, that's interesting. I haven't considered the sleep deprivation

But I have considered, you know, what one of the this isn't just veteran suicide this is suicide across the board the two things usually in tandem that are usually immediately upstream or or predictors of suicide or depression and isolation and It I'm just make

I'm just thinking about this of what is it that we're doing in our isolation? That's caused us to be more depressed in and this is a big huge Just pick mine up and I was like this

They call it doom scrolling doom scrolling, right? Well, and then even like the way that we are doing our community through our devices

So, you know the average person I have I don't know. I have like 1 ,500 friends on Facebook. They're not all friends

You know, those are authentic deep abiding relationships But if we live that way and society has shifted

This is this is not going to be a good support system for when you are depressed You know, so it's really fascinating day, but the sleep deprivation, you know, and one thing right?

Yeah was from a Pastor faith perspective. It's two important things.

Now you mentioned earlier Keith It's you shall not murder. You shall not kill.

You shall not kill as long as you shall not murder And it's so simple. It's so straightforward.

It's so misrepresented You know the Old Testament somebody waving a black book and shouting thou shalt not kill

For all the Jewish translations of the original Hebrew you shall not murder almost all the modern friends

They shall not murder and and that's we can answer that brief. But here's the other thing you're gonna hear you see terrible terrible things

How could a loving God? allow those terrible things I have And the answer is really important and you ever heard if you love something to let it go if it comes back is truly yours

That's how much God loves us. God loves us enough to let us make our own decisions That means a lot of people make bad decisions a lot of bad things happen.

You say God wanted to do something He said it did I sent you And that's an important question to be able to answer right up front.

Why did God allow these terrible things to happen? He doesn't he lets us make our own decisions. He's not some puppet master

Manipulating us. He loves us enough. Let us make our own decisions bad decisions happen God wants you to do something about it.

I did I sent you and that's your job to confront that in this world Well, that's why

I'm thankful for especially Josh's book because he's trying to do something several people in the comments have mentioned that there needs to be more ministry to veterans and and and I hadn't really thought much about that before reading

Josh's book because Obviously as I said, I have military in my family. We have military in our church yesterday, you know,

I honored those men I thanked them for their service and those who have served but but what that that's another question.

I want to ask you Josh What does ministry to veterans look like in in real world?

You know touching grass feed up boots on the ground. What does it look like? and by the way, I just mixed two major metaphors a generation

Alpha, you know touching grass with boots on the ground, which is a military term. But what does it look like?

Yeah, I it starts this way. Hi My name is Josh. What's your name?

It starts of introducing yourself, I actually think when it comes to better to ministry to veterans we can be

Too attracted to making too many affinity driven ministries that were going to outsource these guys

Away from the church the primary the primary mechanism that God has gifted for doing ministry.

This is bride It's the church and all its beautiful diversity and the multi generational ness of the church of the body of Christ and the more that a church can embrace the

Differences that they have already there, especially especially the multi generational church You already have the people to do ministry within your church

So I think every person that's sitting the pew should first not disqualify themselves and think I need to have served the military to Minister to somebody who's a veteran or an active duty or whatever

No, you just need to have your curiosity and presence and ask good questions and don't you know, ask better questions

It's not like hey, have you ever killed somebody? Like well, first of all, like would you ever go in an ER doctor after they had a hard night say?

Hey, did you lose anybody last night? Like what? Why would you say that? Well, why don't you start with?

What's your name? I'm Josh start just start start there start to build a relationship And some of the easier things that you can ask instead of just jumping right into hey, what do you do for a living?

Did you see combat or whatever? there are so many men and women service members who have our work as cooks or motor tea or or You know air wing mechanics who will never see never see combat and when they're asked that question

It feels like this wall goes up of like you're fetishizing Violence. You want you only will value me for some heroin war story and that's that's awful

It is such a faithful dutiful thing that somebody Signed their name the dotted line and said

I'm gonna give up four years of my life to be an air wing mechanic I have a brother -in -law who did that it was at a

Here in Missouri working the b2s and he's not gonna have those stories and his service was 100 %

It was it was amazing. So so start upstream from the military and ask hey, where are you from? You know, we're just good.

So what why did you join the military? What was it like, you know the first time you came home and maybe did you go to church and wear your you know?

Your dress blues, whatever a lot of people do that what was that like and and just just enter into the story and just start building trust and Don't think that you're gonna get the whole story in like, you know five minutes

You got to invite them over for slow food Barbecue go ahead. I don't know and some of the things really important in this is that we've got to have a church body

It's part of our faith It's it's you know, it's not to forsake forsake not to gathering yourselves together

But I talked in my book on spiritual combat That to understand that the church is not a shrine for Saints.

It's a hospital for sinners The church is no different no better people. We're just forgiven and trying to be better If they go to this church, oh, they're a bunch of hypocrites.

They did this they did that. Well, welcome to the human race You know, it's not a shrine for for Saints It's a hospital for sinners and and you need to be there.

They need you They need what you have to give that they get this impression of what a church should be what

Christians should be and we fall Short of that mark, but there's none without sin. No, not one We've all fallen short of the mark and it's so important to let them know that Amen, that's true and and and that's what you know what you just said

But both of you just said it's very helpful to me because we we're in a military town Jacksonville There's NAS Jack's Mayport most of its

Navy guys But a lot of them end up at our church and sometimes we only have them for the two years that they're stationed here sometimes less

In fact, some guys come in They have no intention of joining the church because they have a church home back in their home state and home you know, they're just here because they need to be ministered to While they're here.

And so we have a special if to use a term a special dispensation of ministry to say

Okay, we know you're not here for the long term, but we want to love you while you're here We know you're not here, you know forever, but we want you to we want you to feel like you're at home while you're here

That's awesome. And and so I want to just encourage any pastor who's in my town or any town?

That's a military town and there's a lot of them out there You know make those men feel like they're at home, even if they're not going to stay long

Because they don't have a home right now there. Well, they have their military home They have their military family their brothers in arms

But they don't have a church home right now because they're a thousand miles 2 ,000 miles 5 ,000 miles away from home

So that would be my just Yeah, another aspect of that Keith, you know, we

I was in for 24 years We moved every couple years and we found a church home every place

We went to and every one of them was very deep and powerful And so I have faith in your ability to be a service to them during that time how much they need you

As gosh I can look back and find some amazing amazing experiences across all that time.

Yeah. Amen. Amen Can I just say what say one more place and that isn't that isn't to poo -poo on like Somebody that did see combat and needs

Some special attention. I just think that the body of Christ should think of themselves more general practitioners in terms of like you're just gonna

Drive this relationship of your curiosity and presence and you may meet that person like they're suffering from PTSD and You do not have the expertise to help them.

There are excellent ministries out there you a couple months ago. You had Jeremy Mighty Oaks warrior program.

Yep. Yeah Olinker my That guy's doing some great things and for those who don't see that show

He is boots on the ground helping men and who have been through it He's a great man

Yeah, you hook up a ministries like that or there's there's a ministry called cadence international that minister to the military and they're gonna have

Resource lists that are gonna be better often than something I I used to VA for a lot of things and every military guy

I know struggles of the VA and it just feels like you just can't get the quality long -term care

You're just being shuffled through and I'm just saying check out these ministries if you need that specialized care

They're out there for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's a spectrum I think you know you said you're not just because you haven't seen hard combat

Doesn't mean you don't have struggles that need to be dealt with right and and and then there are those who have seen the hard Combat again.

I keep going back to the bulletproof mine. I can't help it But but you know, I remember You know just hearing about all of those stories and the things that that again

It's an eight -hour seminar hearing the things that these that men have to carry with them that we don't ever know and a lot of These men don't want to talk about they're not going to go around saying.

Oh, yeah. I was a killer I was a I was the baddest bad, you know These guys who were the baddest or the guys who are the quietest and they're carrying that weight with them

They're carrying that that load that you know that they know what they did and they did the right thing at the right time

But it's still it weighs on them. You know, I have a very dear friend from high school who?

Who who was in a in an altercation ended up being shot in the hand It was it was actually his hand that kept him from getting shot in the chest because his hand was on his on his firearm

It hit his hand and his hand is forever Damaged and now he teaches at a high school and he's again a good friend

But I you know, he doesn't go around bragging about his the reason why his hand is mangled He's and go, you know, but people know people know he was there.

He was there in Iraq and it happened So, but yeah, absolutely this is

Something I love what you said Josh. Don't go up and say how many people have you killed? That would be the very wrong thing to start the conversation.

Yeah but When we talk about spiritual warfare and you mentioned

Ephesians chapter 6 Yeah, you know when everything else is covered then it says pray ceaselessly

Well, that's the radio and never lose track of the power of your prayer To be able to uplift and sustain and support our veterans, you know, we again

I've got a son who just retired after nine combat tours and their grandson deployed. We hold up in prayer every night

I don't don't don't doubt that power. Could I tell a story to make that come alive, please?

Please have well as all Texas pastor told me that Korean War an American unit launched an attack on enemy hilltop position was driven back down to the base of the hill

Partway up the hill is a wounded American soldier pleading out his life crying it and And and at the base of the hill a young American soldier.

What is it watching does nothing? Another soldier scrambles up the hills gunned down And and the guy at the base the hill looks is watching does nothing another

American soldier goes to rescue his friend is gunned down Finally the guy at the base the hill looks his watch a third time takes a deep breath scrambles up the hill

Grabs his friend withering enemy fire rolls and pummels and scrambles down to the base the hill

The medics tend the wounded man and and the commander walks up this guy and said that is the bravest thing

I've ever seen He said no, sir. Wasn't This what do you mean two men just died trying to rescue them?

And how is they were brave said you don't understand. I know my grandma in Chicago goes to bed at nine o 'clock in the nose every night and prays for me.

I was waiting for nine o 'clock Chicago time So and and the man who was saved was in this passive church and told the story and That the point is that there are things we can do and we have the power of prayer and it's it's our radio that calls

In airstrikes and calls in medevac and calls in resupply out here on the battlefield

Josh will tell you we're just one person what we can carry on our body But that radio the power of prayer

Milwaukee talking to God his is most powerful tool And always use it never doubt it and that's a great tool that all of us have we're all in spiritual warfare

And normal war you win but in large part by killing the enemy the spiritual warfare. We win by saving them.

Hmm Amen Well brothers, I'm so thankful to have you both on today and I do want to begin to draw us to a close

But I I don't want to leave anything out that you guys were we're hoping to say so I'm gonna give you both an opportunity

To share anything that you'd like as well as tell people about maybe something upcoming as somebody somebody from the chat said

Said to mention here it is Josh tell them about your upcoming systematic theology for the common man.

Is that a book you're writing? That oh, I know who Frank is and no I am writing two books.

So I'm working and then made this so we can connect on a future I'm doing my dissertation is on ethical appraisal of mixed martial arts

Something in there for us to talk about and then I'm I am writing a book on IVF in vitro fertilization

I have a publisher that's interested, but they want me to finish it. No, there is no systematic theology

Well brothers still tell us tell people how they can get in touch with you I'm gonna have the link below but but if people want to get your book if people want to reach out to you for your ministry or if there is a

Soldier or I guess a serviceman or woman who is who would like to reach out to you.

What's the best way? Yeah, but but I mean you're holding me you can go to my church website

First Baptist Church st. John org or I have a personal website Joshua D Holler calm and you can you can you can order my book or you can connect them to me there and Yeah, I think just want to say the biggest plug here for for suicide.

It's a it's a problem It's a it's an exacerbation of what's wrong with us as a society and the way that we do community

Which has changed drastically and it's not something that's wrong veterans and man as Christians We have the only message that saves the gospel and we need a we need to get that into into this conversation

I saw, you know, I'm government program adverse. I don't think that we're gonna fight this by just throwing more money at it

We're gonna do it. We're gonna fight this by equipping the church to do what the church is supposed to do Amen amen

Brother Dave, do you have something you'd like to close with? I just want to turn around and point everybody towards Josh's book

It is the single best book on the subject of but a veteran suicide or suicide in general

And the mechanism the approaches we can use I'm honored to be on board with you And I want to point everybody back to his book.

It's a it's an amazing resource and and Josh, you know it God anoints you

I've got 16 books published now Then you'd be surprised how the next book just rolls into place and and you need to go ahead and do that next book and Put it out there have no doubt you're touching lives

You're doing the Lord's work and I'm honored to be on board with these two mighty spiritual warriors here at God bless you

Thank you. Thank you both for being on I'm gonna I'm gonna sign off now, but just just a second

Don't leave audience, but you guys hang hang backstage and we'll be we'll be right back with you

Well, thank you guys all again for being a part of your Calvinist podcast watching today's show And I hope it was a blessing to you and again

Especially if you're a person who is having any thoughts of suicide if you're having anything like that in your life

And you're struggling with that Please reach out and talk to someone reach out and talk to your pastor reach out and talk to a friend reach out and talk to a family member don't let the darkness overcome you the

Bible says that Christ is the light and And he calls us he says everyone who believes on me will not be disappointed

So I would encourage you to turn to him, you know The Bible says our sins are as scarlet, but he can wash us white as snow

Maybe you have something in your life that you're ashamed of maybe have you something in life That's broken you and you feel like you'll never be made whole again.

Christ says he can make all things right He can make all things whole he can give you The spiritual life that you need if you would turn from your sin and turn to him trust in him

Know that he is the Savior the Savior the only Savior who can who can give you that peace and comfort that you're that You're looking for now last thing.

I want to say before I end I wore this shirt tonight for a reason I'm wearing a shirt that says set free Church, Northeast, Florida every

Thursday morning I go and preach at a men's ministry many of these men are coming off of drugs and alcohol

Some of them coming out of prison and I spend my mornings every Thursday preaching to these men. Well this Saturday They're having a fundraiser for their ministry and I'm going to be there doing a live show and I'm going to have that Saturday evening doing a live show cracking jokes having fun having

Interviewing some of the men about their lives and I'm hoping that some of you might be interested in donating to that program

So if you have questions about set free church and you want to ask me go to Keith Foskey calm and you can send me an email or just leave a comment on this video and I'll be happy to get back with you and Give you all the information you can so again

I want to thank you for listening to your Calvinist podcast if you haven't subscribed go ahead and hit the subscribe button trying to hit

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