August 19, 2022 Show with Dr. David Lawrence on “Discovering Sovereign Grace While in the Church of Christ’s Halls of Academia” (Part 3)

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on

the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 19th

day of August 2022.

Today, I am thrilled to have back a returning guest for part three

of a discussion that we began a number of weeks ago.

I have enjoyed discussing this issue with this guest so much

that, who knows, there may be even a fourth and fifth edition to this conversation,

and I'm looking forward to what he has to say today.

His name is Dr. David Lawrence.

He is former professor of history at Lipscomb University and currently the scholar

in residence at Stevens Valley Church of Nashville, Tennessee.

And this is part three of Discovering Sovereign Grace While in the Church of Christ's

Holes of Academia, the Theological Journey of a Professor in a Prominent Church of Christ

University.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. David Lawrence.

And for the sake of our listeners who did not hear you the last two times you were on, in fact,

we even aired part one of this discussion as a rerun

Wednesday, two days ago.

So some of this may be fresh in the minds of some of our listeners who listened to that rerun.

But for the sake of our listeners who are unfamiliar with Stevens Valley Church of Nashville, Tennessee,

tell our listeners about that congregation.

A

more

traditional part of

the establishing of that church that's right now in the

Gospel of John.

And just to clarify for our listeners who may have wrongly thought you were bragging about yourself when you

said the preaching is excellent.

No, I'm not bragging about myself.

I'm not bragging about myself.

I started to preach quite a bit at the beginning.

And then we called Jim Bachman, who was formerly a preacher.

I miss it.

I enjoyed it when I did it.

But my work there is confined primarily to lecture.

Well, if anybody lives in the Nashville, Tennessee area or you're visiting

the Nashville area or you have friends, family, and loved ones who live in that area, go to stevensvalley

.church.

And Stevens is spelt with a P -H. S -T -E -P -H -E -N -S, valley

.church.

And I hope that you pay them a visit if you are providentially capable of doing that.

I think it might be a good idea to very briefly recap

on especially how you first, as

not only a member of the Church of Christ, which is also known as

being a part of the 19th century restoration movement led

by Thomas and Alexander Campbell, father and son, and also

Barton Stone, who was far more aberrant in his theology

than the previous two men I mentioned.

And it is still a mystery why Alexander Campbell had

fellowship with him and those who were Barton Stone's disciples when

the differences were quite dramatic.

But they have been nicknamed, and it is usually used as

a pejorative term, but they have been nicknamed the Campbellites.

I know that, unlike Calvinists, who seem to wear that badge proudly, for the most part, not all,

those in the Church of Christ do not like to be called Campbellites.

That's correct.

So tell us about that part of your life, being in the Church of Christ as a minister

and also as a professor at a prominent Church of Christ university, and your discovery

of the doctrines of grace and some of the fallout and pushback

that occurred after that.

And then we will move forward to our third edition of the show

that will delve into some things that we may have overlooked the last two times.

The

emerging

non

-anti

-Arkansas,

and I saw the evil of it, I went to a, I'll say, mainline Church of Christ,

and there were many there

invited to the campus, including R .C. Sproul and John Gerstner.

We had a gentleman,

I think that's where I began to,

I

was

getting

away

from a

great

time

there,

Smith Springs, and my wife and I intended to stay there

first going then to Covenant Presbyterian, and then from Covenant, Stevens Valley was established,

where I am now, a number of years.

And if our listeners want to get a more detailed description of this journey

of my guest, Dr. David Lawrence, just go to www .ironsharpensironradio .com, and in the search

engine type in David Lawrence, and you will have the previous two interviews come up,

and you could listen to them at your leisure to find out in more depth about

David's history in the Church of Christ and his discovery and journey into

sovereign grace, also nicknamed Reform Theology and nicknamed Calvinism.

And I also want to make it clear, especially to those who are currently in the Church of Christ,

that I am not intending in any way, shape, or form, and I'm sure that David

would be in agreement with me, we're not trying to broad brush this entire movement because

I have learned over the years, having been in regular contact and having friendships,

in fact, some extremely close friendships, with Church of Christ ministers and authors

and those who just regularly attend congregations in the Church of Christ, I have discovered

that there is a lot wider a spectrum of beliefs,

and some of those beliefs would be very much within the pale of

Christian orthodoxy and biblical faithfulness, and not everyone in the Church of Christ

is a denier of the necessity of grace, a full

-blown Pelagianist, somebody who believes that they have to earn

favor with God by their performance, their deeds.

So I know that that is not an accurate description of all in the Church of Christ,

and there are even those that would not tell those who have

not been immersed in water by a Church of Christ minister or a member of a Church of Christ with the exact

intention of that minister or church.

I know that there are those in the Church of Christ who do not tell folks they are damned

because of that, and I know members of the Church of Christ who even

embrace as their brothers and sisters Presbyterians who have only been baptized as infants,

which is obviously a clear departure from

Church of Christ understanding of baptism as well as Baptist.

And I also, just to let my Church of Christ friends and listeners know, that I frequently on the show,

I am a Reformed Baptist, and not only do I have programs and

guests where we critique our own fellow Reformed Baptist brethren over issues that

have arisen amongst our own fellowship, and I'm talking about very serious critiques.

I know that in the Baptist spectrum of things, there is a wide variety.

There are Baptists who I would not even identify as my brothers in Christ because they

are in liberal churches that have become apostate, even though they still remain with the name

Baptist, and there are also Baptists who are in congregations that are

very cultic in the way that they instill fear in their members.

If you leave this congregation, you're damned, you know, that attitude.

So I hope that you who are listening don't think that I am bashing, as the popular term

is, or unfairly picking on the Church of Christ.

And as I've said before, the reason why I'm even doing this program is that I owe a great debt

to the Church of Christ because, having been raised Roman Catholic, before my conversion to

biblical Christianity, the Church of Christ and its ministers

and members was the first Christian group that God used to

instill within me a fascination for the Bible and love of the

Bible and zeal to explore and learn what the Bible taught.

So I always love to hear about good things that occur in that movement, and one of

them is knowing that there are people who are still in congregations that have

Church of Christ on the shingle who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace.

Have I misspoken in any way there, David?

...the

Bible,

upholding

of

the...

that many churches have studied the Bible more openly than they

ever had, and are beginning to see...

I've used the term sometimes grace -oriented.

We'll say

that

Salvation...

his

name.

He was not

so...

They

would

say

denominations.

So they actually

correct

its errors, let us say,

which is more in line with the Texas churches.

So at that point, particularly

through the 50s and 60s, but then in the last few years, it has returned to a more

biblical posture.

And I've seen changes happen...

I saw changes in places,

but I know certainly about Nashville.

There are several churches here that would not at all...

I think this is the point we need to make, and

certainly

reform theology.

But they did not choose...

And I might as well throw in there, for those of our Church of Christ

listeners who did not hear any of the previous programs, there are some

things that I still... really love

from my memories of visiting Churches of Christ during

my own journey after leaving Catholicism, especially because

my brother Bob was once a member of a Church of Christ on Long Island.

But I still, to this day, love and prefer a cappella

music in the church.

In fact, I conducted a three -part interview with a

Reformed Baptist, of all people, who wrote a

book that I found very convincing called Old Light on

New Worship.

And this Reformed Baptist is making the case that the best

way we can worship biblically and remain faithful to the New

Testament in regard to music is to be a cappella.

And a great hero of Reformed Baptists, Charles Spurgeon, believed in that

strongly.

And there does exist a division amongst Reformed people where there are some

who are exclusive psalm singers who are also exclusively a cappella.

But John Price, the Reformed Baptist pastor I interviewed,

he is not an exclusive psalmist.

He believes in singing non

-canonical hymns, but he believes that these

hymns should be sung in worship services, which is in the corporate gathering of God's people,

sung a cappella.

And if anybody wants to look up those interviews, they were conducted in

September of 2017 and December 5th and December 12th of

2017.

Just type in John Price in the search engine at irontreponsirenradio .com and you

will see Exclusive A Cappella Worship Defended, Parts 1, 2, and 3.

And again, the full title of John Price's book is Old Light on New

Worship, Musical Instruments in the Worship of God, a Theological, Historical, and Psychological Study.

And I know that my guest today does not any longer have that view,

but I do, believe it or not, even though the congregation where I am a member does not hold that view.

Reformed people understand that it is what we believe, that there's

basically nothing wrong with worshiping a cappella.

In your opinion, it's best, even

potentially,

we are Presbyterians, each other,

where that holds

us in

unity.

Yes, and being grace -centered and grace -focused, you would hardly

ever find, I mean, they may exist, because there are nutty Calvinists out there, but you will very

rarely, rarely find a theologically reformed person who believes.

The music issue, a cappella versus instrumental, is a salvific issue, and

if you either include instruments or bar them, that you're damned, which, unfortunately,

too many in the Church of Christ have that severe of a view.

Yes, too many.

And I also want to, very quickly, so we can move on to the main discussion, I want to make it clear that I

am not opposed to musical instruments for any reason.

I love going to Christian concerts and things, and the church where I'm a member,

they use musical instruments in the worship, so it is not such a

vital issue to me that it would compel me to leave where I am worshiping, but

I just wanted to make sure that I do.

In fact, I love listening to good Christian music on Christian radio and

listening to CDs and all that kind of thing, and I have a number, quite a number

of friends who are musicians who perform and record Christian music, so I just wanted to make that clear as

well.

And you mentioned Stevens Valley, and we would be delighted to have any

new location we're in,

but let me say in regard to music, the director, his

name is David, he, people as well,

but under his direction, the music is absolutely beautiful.

I would say that to Fried, I think you'd find

at Stevens Valley.

Well, before we go to our first break, I just want to let our listeners know that

when we return, we're going to be entering into the first

answer to the first question in the Westminster Shorter Catechism, what is the

chief end of man, and we're going to have David

basically dissect the answer to that question,

and basically it will help steer some of our discussion where we compare

and contrast grace from legalism.

So if you have any questions, send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R

-N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are in a Church of Christ and you are starting to

have different views on theology and practice than you are

experiencing in that Church of Christ, and you'd rather not draw attention to your identity at this point.

We can understand things like that would compel you to be anonymous.

In fact, you might even be a minister in the Church of Christ and you are starting to disagree

with what was traditionally believed and practiced in the congregation where you are

shepherding.

Well, we would understand all of that would be very valid reasons to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general

question, please give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be back with David Lawrence right after these messages, so please don't go away.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

and I are heading to Washington, D .C. for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference on the theme,

Just Thinking About the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th, and I'll be speaking along

with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker,

co -hosts of the Just Thinking Podcast.

To register, visit g3men .org, that's g3men .org, and click on Events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C., for the G3

Ministries Regional Conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3men .org, that's g3men .org.

Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland,

going back to 2005.

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe

Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger Catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the Reformers.

Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831.

If you visit, tell them Joe Roydigan, Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Attoy in County Kildare, Ireland,

sent you.

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small

group study?

So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's word in those

smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the word of God and is

built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to

study the Bible.

Hi there, my name is Jordan Too, and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House.

Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.

Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor, and for good reason.

We are Baptist, and we exegete the scriptures.

If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the word of God, I invite you to go to our website,

download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.

May God bless you.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville

Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck White of the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course the end from which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord

God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.

Here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio praise God for the generous monthly financial support of

Royal Diadem Jewelers educated by and affiliated with the American Gem

Society Jewelers of America and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created

exactly according to your imagination and specifications Royal Diadem Jewelers

has you covered.

No matter where you live in the world Royal Diadem will walk you step -by -step through every stage of the process

and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to

serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs.

They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.

From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to

the finished product they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes

making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your

expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com that's royaldiadem .com.

Today.

Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers.

His wife Bronnie, his business.

Partner and manager Brian Wilson and the entire family thank you all for listening to, praying

for and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please don't forget folks, that for the first month of advertising

of Royal Diadem Jewelers they are donating 100

of the profits from every sale to an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener

for any purchase of $100 or more.

So whether you're purchasing something that they already have in stock or you're having a custom

designed piece of jewelry, whether it's an engagement ring or even some kind of a pendant

perhaps that has your church logo or your parachurch ministry logo or

any other kind of imaginative and creative idea that you may have,

whatever it is, if it's $100 or more for the first month of advertising, they are

donating as I said 100 of the profits to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And of course you have to mention that you heard about them from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So go to royaldiadem .com.

Royaldiadem .com.

Today we are now back with our guest Dr. David Lawrence and as

I said at the outset of the program when I was introducing him

he is a former professor of history at Lipscomb University which is one of the most prominent

Church of Christ universities in the nation.

And today he is currently the scholar in residence at Stevens Valley Church of Nashville, Tennessee we

are addressing part three of discovering sovereign grace while in the Church of Christ's halls of academia,

the theological journey of a professor in a prominent Church of Christ university.

If you have a question send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least your city, state of residence and your

country of residence if you live outside of the USA

and by the way David I while hearing a

commercial for Grace Church at Franklin, a church that you are fully

familiar with since you live near there the music in the background of that ad is acapella.

Although the church is not an exclusively acapella church they specifically requested

acapella music behind that ad.

And it reminded me of a hymn written by a Church of Christ

member, might have been a minister I can't remember right now but it's a hymn that I love and miss

that I don't think is available in any hymnal that is not

specifically a Church of Christ hymnal, Our God He is Alive, I love that song.

Do you love that song still?

Oh

yes,

yeah and I

love the.

Chorus, there is a God, He is alive, in Him we live and we survive, from

dust our God, created man He is our God, the great I am, I just love that.

And it's coming in part.

Yes, yeah that's.

It's really hauntingly beautiful to hear acapella, in fact it's the only way I've ever heard it.

But before the break I mentioned that you were going to discuss

the answer to the first question of the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

What is the chief end of man?

Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

And this is something that even a lot of very

sour and depressing Calvinists have to remember that we are supposed to enjoy Him

forever.

But tell us how you would address legalism and the

grace preached by historically Reformed Churches coming from this first

question of the second of the Shorter Catechism.

I think I heard Bill.

And

making

sure

that

that is

the

essence of man, the duty of man to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

In regard to glorifying God besides

saying not to us, oh Lord, not to us

in faithfulness, enjoy Him, I'm going

to make

the

statement

here

in

Nashville

I

think it was 101 times

anathema

and

enjoying

Him as

a

young

man.

I

think

that's

the very.

Frequently embraced understanding of the nature of man

held by those in the Church of Christ very

frequently but not entirely because as I've said before there are a

wide spectrum of differences that exist.

I'm so happy to hear or should I say read on the websites of

a growing number of Church of Christ congregations that they believe that

man is born in sin and has a sin nature

inherited from Adam and they cannot do anything to please God in that condition or

merit their salvation.

I'm so glad that that is I have found it in the websites of a growing number of Church of

Christ congregations but there are also those that still perpetuate the unbiblical

concept that we are born perfect with a clean slate and

that is not what the Scriptures teach.

And when we discuss total depravity, which we believe as Reformed Christians is a very

biblical concept it really, a lot of it is coming from Romans 8

.8 that they are in the flesh cannot please God.

Total depravity doesn't mean that human beings are as bad as they are capable of being.

It means that every fiber of their being, every sphere and

area of their lives is ruled by sin.

Am I correct here?

I'm

thinking

a person

who is not

regenerate.

Consider,

look at

all sides and he will never accept the things of the Spirit of God because of sin in his nature

and he

is

not a

man.

Be

born.

That's a great line.

I never

heard

it.

In

fact.

We have to go to our midway break and we'll pick up right where you left off.

Please be patient with us folks, the midway break is always the longer break in the show because Grace Life Radio 90

.1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break so that they can air their own public service announcements and

local things in Lake City, Florida while we air our globally heard commercials.

Please be patient with us.

Send in your questions for David Lawrence to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We'll be right back after these messages.

Attention all men in ministry leadership you're all invited to my friend Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio Free Pastors Luncheon Thursday, September 22nd 11am to 2pm

at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

Featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also

receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the United States

and the United Kingdom, personally selected by Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So if you're a pastor, an elder a deacon, a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership

please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by

calling 631 -291 -7002 631 -291

-7002.

631 -291 -7002.

Or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd

11am to 2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnson's

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring you probably have questions.

How do you make your savings last?

How much should you take out and when?

You're ready for retirement but are your finances?

Art Amundsen and Edward Jones Financial Advisor can help you build a strategy to help make sure your

finances keep up with your long term needs.

Do what it takes to get there.

Now it's time to make the most of retirement.

Visit edwardjones .com.

That's edwardjones .com.

Or call 717 -258 -4688 717 -258

-4688 717 -258 -4688.

We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support of

Art Amundsen Edward Jones Financial Advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 717 -258 -4688 717

-258 -4688.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

In Alabama.

It supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations

theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations.

With the gospel.

It is a blessing to see how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts

globally as well as locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide visit anchoredintruth .org.

Getting a driver's license.

Running a cash register.

Flipping burgers.

Passing 6th grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training assessments and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth Love Parent and host of its award winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.

And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in

their homes.

That's why Truth Love Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources train church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com.

As a mother, I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I

could quickly do before school and had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to

understand that they could read themselves or I could walk them through.

There's tiered content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger

section and it's even more simple.

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled Ignited by the Word which

engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God.

Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at IgnitedByTheWord .org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at IgnitedByTheWord .org and receive your

first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.

Every day at thousands of community centers high schools, middle schools juvenile institutions,

coffee shops and local hangouts Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray or all of the above.

For details call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333

631 -385 -8333.

631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org

liyfc .org.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like

the turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy

blue goatskin inside liner and the electric blue goatskin from a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation Study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather

making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding go to

PTLBibleRebinding .com.

PTLBibleRebinding .com.

PTLBibleRebinding

.com.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard

Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm.

Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona and the NASB is my Bible of

choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com that's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

Pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

that's hopereformedli .net or call 631

-696 -5711 631

-696 -5711.

631 -696 -5711.

631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

That's Solid -Ground -Books .com.

And see what.

Priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio.

And please, folks, Solid -Ground -Books .com is really one of the key

reasons why Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exists because of them being a primary and a

vital sponsor.

Please go to Solid -Ground -Books .com first for all your gift -giving needs, and it's not just

because we need their advertising money, but it's because you're going to bless yourself and anyone for whom you are

purchasing gifts from Solid -Ground -Books .com in incalculable

levels, because they publish nothing but the finest in Christian literature dating back to

the Protestant Reformation and extending forward to our current day, including such modern -day authors as Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

At Solid -Ground -Books .com always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnson and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to David Lawrence and our conversation, part three of a

conversation we began a number of weeks ago, where David has

been discussing discovering sovereign grace while in the Church of Christ's

halls of academia, the theological journey of a professor in a prominent Church of Christ university.

Before we return to that, I just have a couple of very important announcements.

If you love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear, I'm urging you, please, go to

ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now,

and if you want to mail in a check

via snail mail, there will be a physical address on the screen when you click

support at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can mail a physical check made out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us, we would love to hear from you at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

put advertising in the subject line, and as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love

to help you launch an ad campaign, because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars in addition to your donations.

Remember, please never give your own church less money than you're accustomed to

giving them every Lord's day, in order to give a gift to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Don't cut into your finances that you have budgeted for giving to your church

so that you can bless us.

Never do that.

Also, if you're really struggling to survive, wait until you are back on your feet financially before you give us

a gift.

Providing for your church and your family are two commands of God in Scripture, and providing for this

radio show is obviously not a command of God.

But, if you do love this show and you don't want it to disappear, and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability

to provide for church and family, you have extra money in the bank collecting interest, you have extra money for benevolent,

recreational, and trivial matters, please share some of that money with us if you love this show.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful church, no matter where on the planet Earth

you live, I may be able to help you find a church such as Stevens Valley Church of Nashville, Tennessee.

I have helped many people in our audience all over the world find churches, sometimes within just a few minutes of their homes.

So, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to David Lawrence.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

And I just wanted to read something from the Scriptures here that really, I don't

know how anybody who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture, like those in the Church of Christ

do, who could read this and not come away thinking that man

is by nature totally depraved.

Romans 3 verses 10 through 19.

There is none righteous, not even one.

There is none who understands.

There is none who seeks for God.

All have turned aside.

Together they have become useless.

There is none who does good.

There is not even one.

Their throat is an open grave.

With their tongues they keep deceiving.

The poison of asps is under their lips, whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.

Their feet are swift to shed blood.

Destruction and misery are in their paths.

And the path of peace they have not known.

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now Paul left no wiggle room there.

I mean, you couldn't be more explicit, and I've actually heard, or read I should say,

a Church of Christ minister who wrote a book where he addresses this and he basically

boiled it down to hyperbole.

Is this hyperbole in your opinion,.

David?

No, hardly.

Amen.

And please continue on where we left off in regard to total depravity and then move on.

Well, I'm glad you read the passage from Romans 3.

And he

confronted me,

and I said, yes, and he

said, and he began

to draw,

he said to me,

possibility.

Deciding

he's going

carefully.

Our gospel is

for God who's

sick.

An analogy.

Let light shine on us of salvation.

Then light.

He says it's the light of the knowledge.

And isn't this so important?

One of the many reasons it's important is that it is an utter

mockery of what Jesus Christ endured on

Calvary to offer a perfect sacrifice for

the sins of his people and to fully accomplish their redemption.

It is such a vile insult to Christ and his work

to say in essence, and I think this is what

would logically be born out of any system that says man must

include his own goodness in order to be worthy of heaven.

What you are saying, in essence, is thank you, Jesus, for helping to pave the way.

I'll pick it up from here.

Yes.

And I read something for my class Sunday.

The gospel

has to be Christ's only.

It would be necessary to be equal to it.

And we do have an anonymous listener who says on one of

the last interviews that Chris conducted with David Lawrence,

they compared how close a connection there exists

between Roman Catholicism and the Church of Christ.

Of course, not in the ritual and the pomp and the ceremony, not in the

statues and the robed priests and the incense, but with

key doctrinal teachings that involve the nature of man and involve

man's cooperation with God in order to help merit his own salvation.

I was wondering if the Church of Christ has ever been

challenged by this in ways that you know, seeing that they typically,

rightfully claim to have a strong opposition to Roman Catholicism.

Well, it's certainly Roman Catholicism.

That's on paper, but they very often live as if that condemnation never existed.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I think that's what Luther observed and the other,

St.

Augustine,

they

don't realize it perhaps, but these

five steps that I mentioned earlier, hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptized, and

attend church,

when

they

are

set

down,

salvation

by

grace.

When you

attend,

as

he should, in the communion, in the Mass, and he was concerned that all

the Masses that he performed were going to be invalid.

We have another anonymous.

Listener who says, I have heard people in the Church of Christ and also Catholics and

Armenians accuse Reformed Christians of teaching

that God turns men into robots.

How do you respond to this?

This is hilarious because a very good friend of mine, he may even be listening, I don't know, he's a Roman Catholic,

Bob Posh, if you're listening.

Love you, brother.

But Bob used to have parties at his home.

He used to invite purposely Roman Catholics and Evangelicals so that they would eat, drink, and

argue.

And I loved these parties, and Bob and I were the only ones left every time, still in his living room,

going back and forth.

And he said the very same thing to me.

He said, Calvinism is ridiculous, it turns men into robots.

And I said, well, explain that to me.

He said, if you do not have the free will to either choose or reject Christ,

you are a robot.

And I said to him, what is your greatest goal in life?

And he said, well, to go to heaven.

And I said, well, you must then have a goal, a great

goal in life, to become a robot.

And he said, what are you talking about?

I said, are you going to have the free will to sin and reject Christ in heaven?

And so he was totally floored by that.

Wasn't expecting that.

So that is not a definition of a robot, and that would actually be saying that God himself

was a robot.

Because God does not have the ability to sin and disobey his own

laws as a righteous, infallible

deity.

I mean, doesn't that make sense?

That really is a puppet show.

I have the Bible Answer Man program.

Eastern Orthodox, yeah.

And I believe he got that from Norman Geisler.

I think that Geisler coined that, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, we have the ability from our

creation through the time of our death, we

have the ability to choose things.

And before we are regenerate, since our minds and

hearts and souls are enslaved to sin, we are always going to choose something

that is self -serving.

Even if it's a good deed, there's going to be a taint of sin because

of ulterior motives and seeking glory and that kind of thing.

That's exactly right, Chris.

God

owns

us.

In fact, even anti -Calvinist fundamentalist Baptists will often hurl at

us, whosoever will may drink of the water of life

freely.

And the issue is, yeah, I agree, but who will?

They seem to think whosoever means anyone is capable.

And what I have said in response to that is, imagine you

walk into a crowd of Christians,

Orthodox Jews, and devout Muslims, and you say to them,

whoever wants to come to my pig roast is more than welcome to come.

Who's going to come?

You know?

That's what the issue is.

Who is willing?

Who wants that?

And same thing with eternal life.

So it's it's and again, even this,

I'm not saying that anybody who rejects Calvinism is by virtue of

that damned, but even the belief in these things that we are affirming today

can only come to us by grace as well.

Am I right?

Right.

I think

it's a

point

of

necessity.

God insists that you choose what you

want. Jonathan Edwards said, his nearest desire.

Yeah, that's an excellent way to put it.

And one other text here, and of course there are many others,

but I think a classic text.

If you believe in the inerrancy of scripture, how you could read John chapter 10 and

walk away someone who rejects God's sovereignty over

salvation is beyond me.

Where we have let's see, if we go down to in John chapter 10

if we go down to the the 20s let's see

let's start at 24.

The Jews then surrounded him, meaning Jesus, and began saying to him, How long will you keep us in

suspense if you are the Christ?

Tell us plainly.

Jesus answered them, I told you, you do not believe the works that I do in my Father's name that

testify of me, but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep.

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them and they follow me

and I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch

them out of my hand.

My Father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to

snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Now, that is proof that we do not become a sheep by believing.

We believe because we are sheep already.

Absolutely.

We are already sheep by sheep.

Very simple.

And it's also dispelling the false belief of many, if

not most of the Church of Christ and Roman Catholicism and 5 -point Arminianism that a

regenerate born -again believer can lose his salvation.

Because it says right here I give them eternal life.

Now, if you have eternal life, how do you lose something that's eternal, number one?

And he says, they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my

hand.

Now, of course, the standard response is, oh, you could jump out of his hand yourself.

Oh, yeah, that's comforting, isn't it?

But it says before that they will never perish, so that rules out jumping out yourself.

Yes, and

again, I

can't.

Do that.

And I'm.

Just challenging you.

And one thing that we have to repeat, because I believe in our second interview we made

sure that no one was misunderstanding us.

We're not saying, as many in Evangelicalism say,

who are guilty of believing in the heresy of

a distorted and twisted understanding of once saved, always saved.

We do not believe, you and I, and neither does any Reformed Christian who is

truly Reformed and Reformed in a historic and biblical sense.

We do not believe that just because somebody raises their hand at Bible camp or goes

forward at an altar call or even is baptized, even baptized biblically,

is a guarantee that that person is a genuine Christian.

And if somebody is demonstrating that they are an unrepentant rebel

against Christ, they are demonstrating that they're not a good tree.

They are a bad tree.

They are unregenerate.

Just as James says, a faith without works is dead.

That doesn't mean works cooperate with salvation.

It means that works are an evidence.

They're a fruit of somebody who is truly saved.

Exactly.

Why would he even say that if a truly regenerate person could lose his or her

salvation?

Just to wrap that thought up, I have heard from

various people professing to be Christian and people who are genuinely Christian who wrongly believe

you can lose your salvation even if you're genuinely saved.

They will say that the teaching of Reformed theology and

perseverance and preservation of the saints will lead people to

apostasy, to abandon the faith, to licentious living.

And the fact of the matter is, I have met many people from the Church of Christ, from

Roman Catholicism, and from five -point Arminianism and legalistic churches who realize,

I can never be good enough, and they abandon the faith.

They just give up.

They see this as a treadmill that they could never keep running on.

And so, to say that Reformed theology has some kind of a market on

producing licentiousness is just not true.

And that

is going

to be

a license

to time.

When I was meeting with a number of students, they come out of the Church

of Christ.

Wow,

amen.

And one thing that we've, in this whole vein of what we're discussing,

we cannot forget also what

the God -breathed words of Scripture say through the Apostle.

Paul.

Apostle Paul in Romans 6.

What shall we say then?

Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?

May it never be?

How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

And why would Paul even bring that up if there

wasn't a likely misunderstanding of

what we are teaching as Reformed Christians about.

Grace?

So he

anticipates

the fact that one can lose oneself,

believing in

salvation.

How wonderful if I

could just believe that.

Why can't you believe this?

What the Bible

came back and

told

me.

Very

happy.

And we

have to

go to our.

Final break right now.

If you would like to send in a question, please do it immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Sorensen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with David Lawrence right after these messages.

To register, visit g3min .org that's g3min .org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

So join me and Chris Sorensen September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. to the G3

Ministries Regional Conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org.

That's g3min .org.

Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Sorensen while you're there.

Why can't we?

How do we know we picked the right Bible?

Why do we go to church on Sunday?

Parents, if your kids have questions about God's Word and His creation, they would love

to read our new reformed magazine called Ignited by the Word.

This magazine is packed full of devotionals, Bible stories, church history,

poems, activities, and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their

walk.

With God.

Created by a team of teachers, ministers, mothers, fathers, and more, we know

how important it is to have Christian literature in our homes.

Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org and receive your first

two issues.

Free.

When

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my

very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Darrell.

Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the NASB.

Is my Bible.

Of choice.

I'm.

Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Andrew Rapport, the founder and executive director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and

the NASB.

Is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Rimaldi,.

Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB is my Bible

of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon,

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larchville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB.

And tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com, to place your order.

Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the Body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and

in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey.

Pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship.

Performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco

demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the

public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit.

Historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

Welcome back and David Lawrence, going back to the listener who was

talking about the claims of Reformed theology being a system that turns

men into robots.

Also, immediately remembering Romans 9 where,

starting in verse 18 the Apostle Paul says

these God -breathed words.

So then he meaning God, of course, has mercy on whom he desires and he

hardens whom he desires and Paul anticipates what

the rejecter of God's sovereignty over salvation will say.

He says You will say to me then why does he, God still

find fault for who resists his will?

On the contrary who are you, O man, who answers back to God?

The thing molded will not say to the molder, Why did you make me like this?

Will it?

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for

honorable use and another for common use.

And he goes on from there with some very important imagery.

But if the Arminian or the Pelagian or the Roman Catholic or the

common Church of Christ understanding of the freedom of the will and salvation were true,

why would Paul anticipate a objection like this?

Why does God still find fault for who resists his will?

Why would somebody say that?

If the unbiblical understanding of.

Free will

is true?

Obviously

not.

Regenerate.

And

reading it to a minister and his wife

at a dinner, I had been preaching and said some things

that

he likely never heard and

I said that's the

oddest thing I've ever heard.

In fact.

I had the very same thing happen when I was sitting in

my office, which was at the time in the church building where I was a member and

a friend of mine who is not Reformed came by to pick up posters promoting a

debate that I organized with Reformed Baptist scholar Dr. James R. White and he said,

you know, if only Dr. White was not a Calvinist.

I love everything about him except his Calvinism.

I hate, he said, I hate his Calvinism.

So I said, alright, I just want to read you something.

And he saw that I picked up a Bible, I opened up to Romans 9 and I read the whole chapter.

And he said, so what do you think about that?

He said, you know who believes that?

The biggest cult in the world, the Muslims.

I said, do you know that I just read an epistle from the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, don't

you?

And he said, no, it's what you read into it.

I said, I didn't read anything into it.

I didn't exegete it.

I didn't explain it.

I just read it.

Well, we're out of time and I know we've got to do part four of our discussion.

So, when I send you the recording of this

interview that you could do anything you'd like with this recording, I will include a calendar of

dates because I've really got to get you back on if you would like to.

I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your

contact information.

First of all, the Stevens Valley Church of Nashville, Tennessee can be found at stevensvalley

.church and Stevens is spelt with a P -H. S -T -E -P -H -E -N -S valley

.church and do you have anything else you'd like to say in about 30 seconds?

Amen.

Folks, I want to remind you I am going to be tomorrow manning my exhibitors

booth for Iron Trip and Zion Radio at High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania

for the Just Thinking Conference with Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker

who are co -hosts of the Just Thinking Podcast.

They are the two speakers at this conference at High Point Baptist Church and it's not too late to

register so go to highpointbaptist .com highpointbaptist

.com and click on events and you can register.

I hope as many of you as possible who are listening will attend that event, of course, especially if you live in

Pennsylvania or nearby.

Please make sure you greet me at the Iron Trip and Zion Radio exhibitors booth.

Also, if you are a man in ministry leadership and you have not yet registered for the Iron Trip and Zion Radio free

pastor's luncheon featuring Dr. James R. White, which will be held in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is Perry County,

on Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.

Send me an email to register for free at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.