May 3, 2022 Show with E. Ray Moore on “Exodus Mandate: Encouraging & Assisting Christian Families to Leave Pharaoh’s School System for the Promised Land of Christian Schools & Home Schooling”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this third day of May 2022.

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And by the enthusiastic urging of my dear friend, Dr. Joseph C.

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Moorcraft III, and his wife, Becky, I have on a guest today for the first time, who is a dear friend of theirs, who they insisted would make a superb guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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And I do not take Dr. Moorcraft and his wife Becky's recommendations lightly.

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They have very keen discernment and a lot of wisdom, and so I quickly took them up on their strong recommendations.

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Today, our guest for the first time is E. Ray Moore, a chaplain and lieutenant colonel in the

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United States Army, retired, who has served for over 40 years in pastoral ministry as a campus pastor, a congregational minister, campaign consultant or staff for several major political campaigns, a graduate of the

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Citadel with a BA in political science, a graduate of Grace Theological Seminary cum laude with a

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Master of Divinity in 1974 and a Master of Theology in 1979, an

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Army Reserve chaplain retiring as lieutenant in 1999, a

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Bronze Star recipient for service in Gulf War I, co -founder of Frontline Ministries Incorporated, currently serving as the president of the board, author of Let My Children Go, and co -author with his wife

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Gail of The Promise of Jonadab, Building a Christian Family Legacy in a

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Time of Cultural Decline. He's also one of the executive producers of the 2011 award -winning film

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Indoctrination, Public Schools and the Decline of Christianity in America, which is a

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Gunn production, and also a script writer and executive producer of the film

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Escaping Common Core, Setting Our Children Free, which is a

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Cutting Edge Films production. Today we're going to be addressing Exodus Mandate, encouraging and assisting

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Christian families to leave Pharaoh's school system for the promised land of Christian schools and homeschooling.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, Ray Moore.

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Well, thanks, Chris. I've been hearing about your program for some time, and so I'm happy to be here today.

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Of course, we do go back quite a long time with Joe and Becky Moorcraft.

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My wife Gail and Becky were roommates in college in the late 60s before any of us were married, and so we go back that long, and I think we got married a few months before they did, and so we have a long history with them and they with us.

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In fact, the first public announcement about the Exodus Mandate project, which we're going to talk about today, was made in their church in 1997.

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And I wasn't quite ready for it, but Joe was excited. We had gone to Atlanta to spend a weekend with them, and I was seeking counsel at that time, going around meeting with some important Christian leaders to see if I was crazy or not to think

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I could do a ministry that would get millions of Christian children out of public schools.

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He thought it was just a great idea and made the public announcement that Sunday, and I wasn't quite ready, but that was the way it worked, and we've been going since then.

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Well, sometimes to teach kids how to swim, you got to push them in the water. And Joe is really well known for that.

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And it's a good thing he does that. He's a real motivator. Of course, you know if you have him on your show what a great

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Bible teacher and theologian he is. He's a world -class theologian. Oh, I have him on the show probably around two to three times a month at least.

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Wow, okay. Well, before we go into the Exodus mandate, which is going to be the major theme of the show, we have a tradition here on Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio.

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Whenever we have a first -time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, that they were raised in and the kinds of providential circumstances our sovereign

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Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

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And I'd love to hear your story. Well, I was raised in a Christian home.

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You know, we could say, all said of Timothy, from a child thou has known the

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Holy Scriptures able to make thee wise unto salvation. So I was raised in a

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Baptist church, you know, in the South, Southern Baptist. And my parents were devoted Christians.

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They instructed us in Scripture. And I would say somewhere along the line,

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I made a public profession as in the Baptist world, you know, to go forward in a service, publicly profess that Christ was my

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Savior. And then when I was nine years old, I was baptized. It's possible that, and that's, you know, kind of the

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Baptist way. Then I might've been saved before that. My mom remembers when I was four years old that I used to embarrass her with her friends because wherever we would go together as a four -year -old,

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I would ask them if they were saved, if they knew Jesus as their Savior. And of course, she wasn't ashamed of it, but she didn't want that question going to all of her girlfriends at the time.

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I follow the Lord pretty faithfully in that world. And then when

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I was in early college years, I kind of backslid. But in my junior year at the

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Citadel, I recommitted my life to Christ in a really wonderful way.

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And I've been following Him with ups and downs since that time.

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We've been married 52 years. Gail was at Agnes Scott College, rooming with Becky Moorgrath and Becky Belcher when we started courting.

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And we got married in 1969. We have four adult children and eight grandchildren.

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We've raised our children up in the faith. Our four children are faithful Christians, walking with the

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Lord, have good marriages. And they themselves are homeschooling or put their own kids in private

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Christian schools. So we have a long history. Going back to really 1977, when

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I was finishing up my theological seminary training, Grace Seminary in Winnow Lake, Indiana, we started homeschooling our oldest son.

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He was six years old at the time, and now he's 51. So we've had a journey of faith and also with the

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Christian education movement, you know, going back to 77. But in 97 is when

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I publicly launched the Exodus Mandate Project. As I mentioned already, our first public announcement is at Joe Moorgrath's church.

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Well, let's also hear something about Frontline Ministries. I mentioned earlier that you are co -founder of that ministry.

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And I know that the Exodus Mandate is connected with that. So if you could tell us about Frontline Ministries.

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In 1994, Reverend Lee Adams and his wife Susan and Gail and Ray Moore, that's me and my wife, launched

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Frontline Ministries, which was a broad ministry to revival, prayer, intercession.

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We had an apologetics agenda and also an agenda for Christian education and homeschooling, but it was too broad.

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And we had a kind of a limited budget at that time. And so in 97, we kind of focused in on, laser -like on one thing.

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That was the Exodus Mandate. Frontline Ministries is our house in which we live, our 501c3 incorporated.

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I know there's some controversies about that, but that's what we did in 94. And then we offered the exodusmandate .org

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as a project under that. It has no independent legal standing.

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It's really just a project underneath Frontline Ministries. But people know us better as exodusmandate .org.

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When people hear about us, some people have heard of exodusmandate .org

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because that's what we project more than Frontline Ministries. I know that's a little confusing, but that's the way it happened.

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Oh, not confusing at all. Well, obviously you have a passion and a mission to lead

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Christian families out of the government school system into the

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Christian schools and homeschooling. When did this passion and this mission begin in your life?

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What were you witnessing that brought you to the point where you were no longer going to be a spectator on the sidelines watching this happen, watching the decline of the school system and the culture?

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And you said, I'm going to roll up my sleeves, I'm going to get involved in the trenches, and I'm actually going to actively do something about that.

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How and when did this begin to occur? Well, it probably started in 1977 when we first started homeschooling our oldest son.

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But it was just strictly about me and my son, my wife, and her son. At that time, we weren't thinking in a broader context than just our immediate family.

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But over the next 20 years, the conviction about how important it was really grew.

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And I guess the turning point for me, a big turning point, happened in 1997.

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I attended the big briefing in Washington, D .C., where all the conservative groups, and you would know a lot of them, the

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Homeschool Legal Defense, the Heritage Foundation, about 15 sponsors, Concerned Women for America, Phyllis Schlafly's EGLE form, all sponsored together a big briefing in Washington, D .C.,

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about the condition at that time, in 1997, of state -run public schools and how terrible it was.

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And I went to that briefing, and I remember just being amazed at the speakers, because no one really had a solution to it.

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They all were just wringing their hands and moaning and talking about, oh, ain't it awful.

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Look at what they're doing to our children. Oh, ain't it awful. And all they could say was the only plan they had was repeal bad laws.

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And I remember just sitting there just utterly amazed and realizing how poor and weak the conservative

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Christian leadership was at that time, and it really improved some, but not much better, and that nobody in our leadership had a plan about what to do about the school situation.

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But I knew the left had a plan, that they were really working hard. They were using the public schools to bring our country down, and yet none of our people had figured it out.

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And you know something? When I think back in the 70s, when you first started becoming alarmed, what they are doing now makes what you probably witnessed in the public school systems back in the 70s made it look like John Calvin's Academy or something, because it went from being bad, horrible to absolutely grotesque, horrifying, and satanic.

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Yeah, it's gotten up. The evil in the public school system has really accelerated in 20 or 30 years now.

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It was never a good system. It was never Christian, but it sometimes had a level playing field and gave

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Christians equal time. But that's all changed now, and it's absolutely hostile to Christian families.

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But anyway, I went ahead and felt that day I was in the conference room of the

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House Judiciary Committee, I felt God telling me to go try to do this.

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And I had written a tract or a sermon two years earlier called Let My Children Go and published it in a

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Christian paper in Greenville, South Carolina. And I was already advocating in my state when

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I had a chance it was time to get out of the schools and go to homeschooling and Christian schooling, but it was very localized and my vision was only as big as the boundaries of my state.

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But that day I felt like I'm going to take this thing national. Now, I felt a little silly at the time thinking that, you know,

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I could get millions of kids to leave the public school system, but that was what my dream was.

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So I went to share it with three people that I really had a lot of confidence in their wisdom and ability and also that they were big time, big

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Christian thinkers. It goes two more craft was one and we spent a weekend with him sharing our dream and our vision.

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He thought it was just great. So as I mentioned, he kicked me out early before I was ready to make a public announcement.

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But we did and we launched it about that time. I met with my younger brother who at that time was the head of foreign policy and defense studies at the

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Heritage Foundation. So he was a top person in his particular field and defense and heritage.

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And that's the big time Republican conservative think tank. And he thought it was a good idea and he was a big thinker in the defense and foreign policy world.

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He would probably be one of the top 10 conservative policy analysts in the country at that time.

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And he said, you should try it. He said the left. And this was interesting.

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I remember this very vividly today. He said the left. The Marxists and socialists have won the culture war.

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They've already won. They know it, but we don't know it. And they're just going to take the next 30 to 40 years to finish us off and clean us up.

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And the conservative leadership, but not that sharp. And I mentioned already how they couldn't figure out what to do at that meeting

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I was at. So he said, you should try to do it. And then later I met with a good friend who was in our church and he was a retired army colonel

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JAG officer. And he was a homeschooler and had his kids also in the same

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Christian school that my wife taught at. And he thought it was a good idea, too.

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But he made a funny comment. He's got a kind of a rust as to humor. He said, Ray, if you try to do that, take the kids out of the public school and give them in a

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Christian school. He said, you'll become the most hated man in America. I kind of shot me.

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I said, what do you mean? He said, well, the left, the

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Marxists will really hate you because they will know you have figured them out.

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You know what they're doing and how they've got a plan to use public schools to bring our country down.

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But he said the Christians will hate you, too, because they're stubborn and willful and they don't want to obey

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God and God's word when it comes to educating their own children. Well, it didn't work out quite that bad, but it was an interesting comment.

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And I think in some ways we're still looking, we're still flying under the radar with the left.

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I hope that didn't go on forever, but they, my brother said, they wouldn't take me serious because they would see what we were doing with Christian education is strictly a religious thing and not a political thing.

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So they wouldn't worry about us because these little pastors, these little Christians down here and someplace doing something and they think they can affect the country.

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They don't have a very big budget and we've got billions of dollars. We have billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money and they have to go out and raise money the old -fashioned way.

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So they're not going to take you serious either. But anyway, it's moved along and we've been at it,

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Chris, for 25 years and it's just in the last two or three years starting to really turn and change in a remarkable way.

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We can't hardly believe the moment we're living in right now with the growth of homeschooling and Christian schooling,

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I describe it as a once -in -a -100 -year moment. This kind of thing only comes around every 100 years.

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Homeschooling has gone from, in two years since the pandemic, has gone from 2 .5

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million to 5 or 6 million in less than a two -year period and maybe it'll go even higher because we don't know what the outcome is going to be because the left keeps pushing this critical race theory in our schools and it's causing more and more people to leave.

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And then private campus Christian schools are growing at the rate of 10, 20, and 30 percent a year.

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So we can realistically see that this might, we might come up to 30 percent outside the system right now or before all this pandemic it was 13 to 15 percent outside the public system and that would have taken in Catholic schools and private schools that are not religious as well as evangelical

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Christian schools and homeschooling. Of course we prefer and we strongly advocate

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Christ -centered Bible -based Christian education but if somebody takes their kids out and puts them in a private school it does at least weaken the system which we'd be in favor of.

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So we could see this movement in the next year or so going to 30 percent or maybe more and if that were to happen we might reach a tipping point and you know what that is where there's a sudden shift in a culture over an idea or a product or something like that and we have a sudden rush into the new paradigm.

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You may remember when the personal computers came out I can't remember quite a year that really took off but there was a period when very few people had them in their homes and then all of a sudden everybody had one and so that's called a tipping point.

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It's a sudden shift to a new model of new paradigm. I remember when I was in seminary in the early 70s nobody had hand calculators in those days.

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A lot of people were still using slide rules to do calculations and I had a friend in my town who'd gotten a hand calculator bought one from Texas Instruments.

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Yeah that's what my brother Bob had. I can still remember it and being fascinated by this hand calculator from Texas Instruments.

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Yeah that was their I think they were the ones that created the first one that he had one in town where we were living in the early early 70s.

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And very expensive for that day. Yeah they were and people would come around from around town knock on his door you know students at the seminary and ask to see this thing called a hand calculator.

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Well I think within four or five years of that everybody had them and that's called a tipping point.

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So we can see this happening with education where the public school model is failing so badly and people are just finally had enough and they're just going to leave in droves and that is what's happening now.

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And so I hope your audience will help us and join in urge their friends to get out of these schools.

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We do know that 80 percent of Christian children that would be evangelical Christians that's a broad term

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I'm sure that's your audience this probably fits that category but 80 percent of children from those kinds of families who remain in public schools through their entire career abandon the church and the

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Christian faith in their early adult years. That's how devastating it is to the Christian community because one of the biggest things

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I fight Chris is this absurd salt and light idea. People say oh no

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Johnny and Mary they're salt and light they're missionaries in the public school I want to slap people when

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I hear that. It's such an absurd idea they take Jesus's words in Matthew 13 and 14 and twist them to mean something he never intended.

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He just simply was giving a general statement of behavior for Christians in all contexts that we should live

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Christ -like way and be a witness and be salt and light in whatever circumstances we're in to witness for Christ and show

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His Majesty's glory but he doesn't tell us there to put little children in harm's way and put them in pagan schools so they can be corrupted and I think a lot of parents are going to risk a millstone that's

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Matthew 18 and 6 you know he said if you cause one of these little ones to stumble you're risking having a millstone put around your neck cast into the bottom of the sea and I think a lot of them are doing it unknowingly and I do periodically come across parents that are sincere in that faulty view they hold that scripture improperly but they are sincere but most cases when

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I hear people use that text to justify putting little children in public schools

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I think it's a case of sloth and laziness they're just looking for scripture justification because they don't want to do what

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God says about raising their children yeah and if they would not believe it was wise to have their little children voting in the church why on earth would they think that they could be capable of being missionaries right well it's the number one issue

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I have to fight and I actually have written a pamphlet on it and I guess if your audience wanted to contact our office they could contact

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Exodus Mandate one word Exodus Mandate at gmail .com

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and we could send out samples of some of our literature of course we can always use donors and people could you know make a donation in that same location well we have to go to our first station break if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com whether you agree or disagree with our guest or you're just not certain send in your email please give us at least your first name your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

26:37

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter it may might even involve your own children may even involve a disagreement in your own household over whether or not to send your children to a

26:55

Christian school or homeschool them removing them from the government school system whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous we will grant your request if it's a personal and private matter but please if it's just a general question your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence we'll be right back with Ray Moore right after these messages from our sponsors as a mother

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air Welcome back

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This is Chris Orrinson your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio If you just tuned us in our guest today for the entire program is

38:13

Ray Moore who has spearheaded and is running

38:18

Exodus Mandate encouraging and assisting Christian families to leave Pharaoh's school system or otherwise known as the government schools or public schools for the promised land of Christian schools and homeschooling

38:33

If you have a question of your own our email address is chrisorrinson at gmail .com chrisorrinson at gmail .com

38:39

As always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

38:46

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter what are the specific things that were and now are present in the government school system that disturbed you so much perhaps even outraged you so much that Christian parents were still sending their children there

39:17

When I was in grammar school in the late 60s and early 70s the only thing that I can remember being in a private and parochial

39:30

Catholic school since I was a Catholic before I was saved was in science even in that Catholic parochial school they taught evolution and the science teacher even told us don't listen to the nuns about the story of Adam and Eve it's a bunch of nonsense and all those stories in the

39:50

Old Testament about Noah's Ark and all that that's a bunch of baloney and it was interesting how he maintained a career there for many years but having even gone to a public or government high school junior and regular high school

40:10

I can't remember other than an occasional mention of evolution and things like that in science of anything shocking even in the 70s through 1980 when

40:22

I graduated perhaps it was just because I was stoned out of my mind for most of my high school years but I don't and of course back then

40:31

I wouldn't have been shocked because I wasn't a believer but what is present and what was present that even got worse that disrupted your life so much that you said

40:43

I've got to do something about this well first of all we start with a presupposition that Christ is the foundation to all of life any system or organization that does not have

40:58

Christ as the foundation and scripture holy scripture as a guiding point will inevitably go corrupt completely corrupt and so Christ and the

41:12

Bible is not welcome in that system in any way and so it's inevitable all these viruses and toxins and errors will just cling to it like you know viruses to a body that's got no immunity so we have to start there and it's not a neutral system it's a hostile faith currently the thing that's driving the engine the most causing people to leave property critical race theory is being taught throughout the public school system and you can see a lot of the protests even though the leftists deny that yeah right well the families know it and I was on actually on the 700 club today talking about this and they featured

42:05

Loudoun County, Virginia which is where a lot of this has gone on and they featured a pastor

42:12

Gary Hamrick he passes a large mega church in the county and I guess they're starting a

42:20

Christian school they bought property and they're getting ready to launch it with I think within a year a school for five to 700 children he said he's already got 2 ,500 families signed up he doesn't know what he's going to do and he said people are contacting him from all over the country wanting to send their kids there and he's surprised at how many requests for jobs he's getting from Christian teachers that work in the public school system they want out too so this was a very very good report it was the 700 club today about a five minute segment and I had about a minute and then he had the rest but it's very good news and they surveyed all the things that are going on around the country so that's the current thing but a lot of people are trying to run for school boards they can just get rid of critical race theory all will be well well that's absurd and I urge your audience don't get caught up in that trap of running for school board it will if you got elected you wouldn't get anything done it would not fix the problem the problem is too embedded it's too deep it's really a

43:30

Marxist leftist anti -Christian system and it can't be fixed it's actually not broken public schools are highly successful according to the designers and it was a socialistic model from the very start and so you can't fix it if it's not broken and I don't mean it's doing a good job it's doing a bad job but it's operating according to their plan which is a socialistic model so critical race theory is a current thing but then you have

44:04

LGBTQ it's all in the schools you have evolution as you've already mentioned there has to be a dozen things if you have to get rid of a dozen things and then it still wouldn't be constituted on the foundation of Christ and the scripture so it's got to be abandoned and as I mentioned earlier in this interview the tipping we could be at a tipping point where if we have enough people that will obey

44:29

God and do the right thing with their own children it may tip the tipping point and we could move quickly into the new paradigm of only private

44:40

Christian homeschooling in America the politicians would be glad to get rid of it they know it's not working in my state about 50 percent of the budget in the state budget is higher ed and k -12 education and they might say well hey we're going to let you

44:57

Christians do it y 'all seem to be doing a better job you've got plenty of churches that are empty five days a week we can use those churches for schools and we're going to get out of the school business and let you do it and we're going to use the limited tax money we have to pay the roads and pick up the garbage but I tell the state leave our children alone you have no business educating children get out of the school business because you're not doing a very good job and of course they're not going to just listen to Christians saying that well a part of your mission before I even get into how much headway you specifically are making in this a part of your mission is assisting

45:48

Christian families to leave the pharaoh's school system for the promised land of Christian schools and homeschooling how exactly are you assisting them obviously you're encouraging them by making this information available to the public and to Christians specifically but how are you actually assisting them to do this?

46:07

okay very good question one of the main things that I have done successfully over the years as I get on talk shows like yours and I reach out to you know groups 10, 20, 30 ,000 people at a time and you know

46:21

I'm bypassing the churches the pastors are not generally have not been cooperating with this but I just bypass them and go right to the people um recently

46:31

I think it was two weeks ago I was on AFR radio American Family Radio they have 180 stations mostly in the southeastern

46:40

United States and I was on there for a half hour it was just incredible you know could have reached

46:45

I don't know what the audience could have been a half a million people they've got a big audience American Family Radio out of Tupelo, Mississippi I was on that program and then this morning

46:56

I was on the 700 Club now my part was only one minute but it was a good minute for me and then they had five minutes total on our mission so that's one of the main things that I do

47:08

I used to do a lot of conventions homeschool, Christian school conventions we're recruiting workers and volunteers and then two years ago

47:19

I hope you'll make note of this we can talk about it some I was part of a group that formed a new program on the west coast in San Diego called

47:30

PublicSchoolExit .com and please write that down PublicSchoolExit .com

47:39

and there were some people in San Diego that liked the Exodus mandate but they're pretty far away from me

47:45

I'm on the east coast and they wanted to have something like it and have it their own organization the lady who started it is named

47:53

Dran Reese one of these really outstanding Christian female leaders just energetic and bright with a lot of personal wisdom and so she organized this and is the

48:08

CEO and they asked me if I'd be the chairman and I said well I don't have a lot of time and she said all you got to do is come on a call you know one or two days a week with about a dozen or sometimes we'll have 20 leaders on the call so I was on that call today at two o 'clock eastern time and we were planning and it's just breathtaking all the things that are happening out there this group is doing extremely well they're operating now all over the country and really has outpaced

48:40

Exodus mandate even though I'm keeping that going she's got a pretty good budget has about four or five paid staff so I'm helping with that and Alex Newman is the executive director you might have heard of him he's one of these dynamic speakers he writes for the

49:01

New American magazine he is a regular columnist on Lyndale TV he has a weekly program

49:08

I mean a daily program there and he's just all over the country speaking in conferences he's on the board of Sam Sorbo who is the actress wife of Kevin Sorbo she's on the board and she's got her own program

49:26

Sam Sorbo Show Sam is a woman's name not a man you all may remember the movie

49:32

God is Not Dead that was Kevin Sorbo her husband that produced that acted in it and they are just one of these really dynamic power couples

49:42

Hollywood actors but they're not your typical Hollywood actors and they homeschool three children very conservative and she's everywhere too so we've got a pretty powerful group of board members and I'd urge you to have her on as a guest and so that's called publicschoolexit .com

50:06

and it's all geared that site is totally geared toward newbies and people who want to leave but they don't know how to begin and where to go and they're just kind of lost they've come to the decision to leave but they don't have a clue about how to get started so this site has a lot of our curriculum models of homeschooling christian schooling and you can go there and study and kind of make up your own mind about what you want to do it's kind of like a cafeteria of ideas for k -12 christian schooling and homeschooling very good site but you have to be serious minded when you go there you don't dabble you got to go and bear down and study it for a while and then we do have a consulting service so if somebody is at a point where they want to do something they can probably call the office and have a consulting service and I am actually consulting with a couple of groups right now myself that are planning to start up christian schools in the short term so that's one of the groups that we work with I started exodusmandate .org

51:14

that was 25 years ago this is only two years old public school exit but it is really strong well we have to go to our midway break right now and please be patient with us folks because the midway break is always the longer the normal break in the show because grace life radio 90 .1

51:35

fm in lake city florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize all of their programming including iron sharpens iron radio geographically to lake city florida they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air during the midway break while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials so please use this time wisely write down as much of the information as you possibly can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers and hopefully that will often mean that you're purchasing their products they're you're using their services you're supporting their parachurch organizations and you're visiting their churches but when you cannot do any of those things at the very least please if you love this show respond to our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring iron sharpens iron radio if indeed you love the show and are truly grateful that there are those out there who have the money to sponsor a program like this and keep it in existence if you're truly grateful for that then please thank our sponsors we cannot exist without our advertisers folks so please at the very least thank them also use this time to send in your questions to ray moore about the education system both the government schools and the homeschooling and private christian school movement and send those emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com

53:10

chrisarnson at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence don't go away we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm dr joe morecraft pastor of heritage presbyterian church in cumming georgia and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm anthony uvinio founder of the reformrookie .com

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58:51

westminstercommentary .com for details on heritage presbyterian church of cumming georgia visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com

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heritagepresbyterianchurch .com please tell dr morecraft and the saints at heritage presbyterian church of cumming georgia that dr joseph pipa of greenville presbyterian theological seminary sent you anchored in truth ministries is the mission arm of grace life church of the shoals based in alabama it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world anchored in truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups with an aim to glorify god and reach the nations with the gospel it is a blessing to see how god has used anchored in truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally to find out more about this vital work worldwide visit anchoredintruth .org

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click support then click click to donate now also folks if you are not a member of a biblically faithful Christ honoring theologically sound doctrinally solid church no matter where in the world you live

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01:10:55

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01:11:10

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Ray Moore and please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:11:26

USA we do have an anonymous listener who says

01:11:32

I am constantly hearing from people who are actively involved in running private

01:11:38

Christian schools that Christians are disobeying God and really doing their children a disservice to put it mildly by not enrolling them in private schools or homeschooling but for us who homeschool and those of us who cannot afford to send our children to a private school actually

01:12:02

I misread the question she or he anonymously said for us who cannot homeschool and for those of us who cannot afford to send our children to a private

01:12:15

Christian school what kind of resolution do you have? Okay well it's complicated

01:12:23

I think about 25 percent of the public it could be even a third cannot afford private

01:12:34

Christian schools because some of them can be pretty expensive so one thing that we would urge is there would be a benevolence fund and the churches for those poor families that want to send their kids to a

01:12:50

Christian school tragically a lot of the churches don't know they should be doing this so it's not set up but that's something that needs to happen so we're looking at a long -term solution here then the other answer would be homeschooling but sometimes that assumes that the wife does not work outside the home and a lot of families have a need for two income parents another answer would be we know a lot of cases where grandparents are homeschooling their children their grandchildren my sister's doing that for her daughter who has three children at home and she has to work so my sister the grandmother is homeschooling three children so there are solutions and there you know it's not as an easy thing but there can be solutions and I tell people there is a

01:13:48

God you know you could pray to him and ask him to help you figure out your particular situation but you really can't put your child in a public school anymore and if you do that you are putting them in harm's way and they're being indoctrinated and being harmed by the curriculum now there may be some exceptions here and there not all the public schools are equally bad but most of them are pretty bad and even the ones that are not aggressively attacking our children and indoctrinating them are not teaching

01:14:28

Christ's scriptures and the gospel to the children so they shouldn't be in a place like that so the first thing is you've got to come to terms with the fact that the scriptures command you to give your child a

01:14:40

Christian education of some kind and not put them in taken schools and then the

01:14:46

Lord will show you different ways to resolve it we really have a lot of issues with the pastors because generally speaking they're not providing these services in their churches now you said earlier that the pastors in general are either indifferent or ignoring your pleas for them to be involved in what you're doing or there might even be opposed to it why?

01:15:16

I mean when you're talking about Christian pastors I'm not talking about mainline apostate leftist pastors

01:15:23

I'm talking about regenerate bible believing born again pastors why are they what reasons are they giving for ignoring this very serious situation?

01:15:37

well there are there could be many one sometimes they feel that they're managers not crusaders and that they just need to meet the needs of people where they are and help them where they are and that's not true it's not totally invalid but in this case the children in their church should not be in public schooling because that's a pagan non -christian anti -christian system so that's one reason another reason would be frankly this has been very hard for me to come to terms with this because I've been in the ministry now really 45 years either as a congregational pastor or army chaplain or a president of a christian ministry it's taken me a while to get my mind around this point that I'm getting ready to make but I've really come to terms with it really strongly in the last four or five years that a lot of us are just afraid and it's not becoming of a pastor to be afraid

01:16:40

I remember years ago I had a friend here in town who passed at a very large southern baptist church and he was one of the better pastors in the community now this was 1999 so it hasn't been a long time ago but at that point

01:16:56

I had a book out and a movie called Let My Children Go and he passed at a church of two or three thousand and he was a soul winner and he had led a lot of them to Christ himself and baptized them and I gave him the book and the movie and about a month later we got together to talk about it and this is what he said to me it really made an impression on me and I've never forgotten he said

01:17:23

Ray if I tried to do what you're suggesting he said we've got 35 public school teachers in the church and he says they would throw me out on the street if I tried to advocate what you're doing and what you're saying so he wouldn't touch it it was too difficult for him to negotiate it now that was a long time ago and maybe he'd be different today but he was afraid of the public school teachers in his church and so a lot of know they've got you know a large mega church in particular will have all kinds of factions in the church we know a church here in town it's a very conservative church and the headmaster of a very flourishing

01:18:13

Christian school in the community attends that church but they have a lot of public school teachers in it as well and the pastor will not allow them to publicize the school at all he won't allow them to make it known or to leave literature on the table because he doesn't want to offend the public school teachers wow now

01:18:37

I think I don't know if you agree I think it is completely permissible for a

01:18:43

Christian to be a teacher in a public school as long as he is not forced to contradict his beliefs and compromise his beliefs and I know of a few that have done that but there's a difference between an adult being a teacher in that circumstance that truly can serve as a missionary in some capacity especially if he develops relationships with the families outside of the classroom but I would think that a pastor should sit down with a

01:19:20

Christian public school teacher and confront them with the evidence that in fact evidence that they already should know is existing about the horrendous and oftentimes satanic things being taught and encouraged in the public school system and if they were a genuine

01:19:45

Christian they should recognize and admit yes that's true but I'm there as a light in the darkness so that as an adult and a teacher

01:19:58

I think that that's acceptable but not to drag your church down by trying to start a rebellion against a pastor who believes homeschooling in Christian schools are the superior model for Christian parents right years ago this is a good story getting ready to tell you a little different than the earlier one there was a pastor at the

01:20:19

Florida Baptist State Convention that picked up some Exodus Man Day literature and he happened to pastor the largest church in the county it was not a big county it was a middle -sized rural county in Florida but I think his church was about 2 ,000 members and so he saw the literature that we had and he was not informed a lot of pastors are just not informed they do not know what's going on outside the four walls of their church so he brought the material back to his church and he made copies and he had about a dozen public school teachers in the church and he called them in for a meeting and presented it to them and asked them is this indeed what's happening in our schools and these were born -again

01:21:08

Christian public school teachers and they got a little upset with him for bringing it up at first but then they sort of settled down and they said yes, yes indeed that is happening here so he said to them he said look if this is happening to our children and the children in the county he said we have a moral obligation to start a

01:21:30

Christian school at least for our children he said I'm asking you not to oppose me but to help me in this so he appealed to the public school teachers he wasn't afraid of he wanted them to get on his team and indeed they did

01:21:45

I think four or five of them resigned from the public school and came over and staffed the teacher positions in the new

01:21:53

Christian school that he formed now I haven't kept up with this story in a few years but within a few years they had a flourishing

01:22:01

Christian school in that church and they had to actually build a building and he was meeting the needs of his own children and his congregation and the needs in the county so there are a lot of things that can be done and he was one who took the bull by the horns and I think he's retired now from that COVID but as far as I remember that school is still going in that church in Central Florida now would you agree as I have discussed with other guests on this program that it's not adequate just to say don't send your kids to the government school send them to a

01:22:45

Christian school because even some Christian schools just like some Bible colleges and seminaries are really often teaching things that are seriously heretical some of them are just mimicking the government school system's curriculum with just sprinkling

01:23:07

Jesus in it and may have less sexually provocative things involved may have less or no woke material in their curriculum but they're still not really adequate as a

01:23:26

Christian school would you agree that a parent really has to be careful even in that area? Yes I would and it just pains me to have to agree with what you just said and I can't give a percentage of it but a lot of our

01:23:41

Christian schools are just not thoroughly Christian enough and they do use secular curriculum and to their credit most all of them hire only saved teachers and they have to have a personal testimony of salvation and they have to agree to a doctrinal statement but a lot of them are not instructed in worldview my wife taught for years at a large

01:24:07

Christian school here in South Carolina and she was head of the English department and it was a wonderful place for her and my children but at times there were real inconsistencies that showed up and it was very frustrating to her along some of the lines you say but it wasn't it was certainly a great improvement and it left a good mark on my three children who went there and now

01:24:35

I had four grandchildren in the same school and it was a great left a good mark on them but if we sat back we could find some things that they needed to do differently tragically right now the social justice movement critical race theory is making a play for Christian schools in a big way and I'm sad to have to report that ACSI which is the largest

01:25:03

Christian school agency in the world has 24 ,000 schools worldwide have sort of accommodated themselves to that and we're working hard right now to get them corrected but they've kind of gone in a little bit on it so there's a lot of families who are fleeing public schools and going into Christian schools and if this thing keeps up in a bad way they'll be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire we think really if you can homeschool that's probably one of the best things to do because you have autonomy homeschool curricula is often sometimes better than some

01:25:45

Christian school curricula and of course sometimes they use the same same curricula but homeschooling is very very good you know particularly up through the middle school years so yes there are problems in the private

01:26:03

Christian school world and we've got to work hard to keep ACSI from you know capitulating to the left which they seem to be doing right now you know people may not be familiar with ACSI it's an association of Christian schools international based in Colorado Springs they do not have a monolithic hierarchical type control over private

01:26:32

Christian schools but most of the Christian schools are members for accreditation sometimes they use curriculum and they give them advisories and help them different ways and we're very concerned about this trend right now well we have to go to our final break it's going to be more brief than the previous breaks if you do have a question for our guest today

01:26:57

Ray Moore on the exodus out of the government school system into homeschooling and private

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire and the

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

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and receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands

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And what I timely add for our discussion today because ignitedbytheword .org

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is an excellent tool and companion and aid for homeschoolers that you can guide your children of all ages through various truths of the

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That's ignitedbytheword .org ignitedbytheword .org We are now back with Ray Moore and we have

01:40:23

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who wants to know I know

01:40:29

I've heard this come up on other episodes of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio with other guests but what about the parent that has a gifted athlete and if they were to send their child to a

01:40:43

Christian school that has no athletic curriculum at all or homeschooling they would be deprived of being involved in athletics and perhaps even deprived of a career?

01:40:58

I think there's some states that have the Tim Tebow rule you may remember that he never attended public school but the state of Florida allowed him to play football for a local public school so he was actually homeschooled all the way through the 12th grade but not public school so that worked in some places and then of course as the

01:41:27

Christian schools grow and develop they actually can be competitive my grandson graduated from a large

01:41:37

Christian school here in the state about a thousand children and he was all stage in football and his school won the state championship in the private school league and then he got a scholarship to a not a division one school but right below division one and played college football for three years and was a starting tight end and his team won the

01:42:05

Southern Conference Championship three years in a row so there are cases like that and so it's not necessarily true but it does handicap some children but I wouldn't recommend it anyway we do have a case here in the state where a kid went to Bent Lippin which is a

01:42:29

Christian school where my grandchildren go and he was really a super football player and so after his senior year he transferred to a public school and was

01:42:43

Mr. Football for the state of South Carolina that year and he's now on the football team at Clemson a real dedicated

01:42:50

Christian but we hated that he did that but his family felt he needed to and he is kind of a star in football at Clemson which is a pretty good team and he plays baseball as well so these kids if they're good their talent will find a place for them even in a

01:43:12

Christian homeschool setting well we have

01:43:17

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County Pennsylvania who wants to know is it legal to have other family members outside of your immediate home or even neighbors that you can trust homeschool your children for you if it is impossible for you to do that very good question

01:43:38

I think in many states the parents if they're homeschooling have to provide 50 percent of the instruction but my sister is homeschooling her three granddaughters and I think her daughter is involved some she has to work during the day so there are many cases like that and I think it's the situation is so bad that I think some people just kind of ignored what rules there might be you have pods now where you'll have one teacher who might educate all the children in state three families and she might have 10 or 15 children and one teacher so there are many different models so the answer is yes you can do it but you have to know what the rules are in your particular state and all the states are different they might have different rules in different states we have another anonymous listener who says what advice do you have and counsel to start a movement going in your own local congregation that might convince them to start a private christian school of their own well if you're a tithing member and a faithful loyal member

01:44:59

I think you can start appealing to the board the elder board the deacon board the pastoral staff and I think you have to do it a lot of these pastors are very slow we have a saying we make often says that the people will lead the leaders will follow so if you're not showing any demand or any interest they're certainly not going to do it good pastors will often respond to the responsible people in their congregation there's a magazine that we use with some great usefulness the new american magazine and that was published in june of last year the june issue is the title save our children and they have a whole issue dedicated to our movement and it's all the authors are christians

01:45:56

I'm one of the authors and then Alex Newman who I've mentioned in the show he was the one that assembled it put it together he wrote two or three of the articles but this is the best tool we have on giving reasons to leave making a theological academic and practical case and we urge people to order this magazine in bulk and they can do that making a credit card order it's 1 -800 -342 -6491 that's 3 -4 -2 -6 -4 -9 -1 and or at least 10 keep them in your car keep them in your house and just prayerfully give them out to your family and friends because if they read this they will not be able to return to public school so we ask churches people in churches to work work the church work the families give them literature materials and we have a lot of the literature in my office if people are interested the samples they can contact us at exodusmandate .org

01:47:02

or excuse me exodusmandate at gmail .com and ask for samples of literature but you have to make the case and a lot of people have never heard the case for Christian education maybe

01:47:16

I could make a shout out a little bit different to my friend who's running for the

01:47:22

U .S. Senate in Georgia I know you must have some Georgia fans on your call and he was a homeschooler all the way through the high school when he was a young man who's the oldest of 10 children and now he's homeschooling his six children and he's running for the

01:47:41

U .S. Senate in Georgia in the May 24th Republican primary his name is Josh Clark and his webpage is votejosh .com

01:47:53

votejosh .com and I know this young man real well he's 42 he served two terms in the

01:47:59

Georgia House very qualified now everybody in Georgia thinks that Herschel Walker is going to run away with the nomination he's a very popular football player but I'm not real sure he'd make a good

01:48:11

U .S. Senator at least I think Josh would pick a lot better one so there are five candidates challenging

01:48:17

Herschel Walker the famous football player in the Republican primary on May 24th and we hope

01:48:24

Josh may be able to come up and come into second place and if Herschel doesn't get 50 percent of the vote on May 24th there would be a runoff and he might have a chance to close the gap that's votejosh .com

01:48:42

and I know a lot of your audience could be in Georgia and just take a look at that webpage I know him

01:48:49

I've known him real well for 10 years he's a homeschooler and a dedicated Christian and if he were about some miracle get elected he would carry the gospel and a stand for Jesus Christ into the

01:49:03

U .S. Senate and he had a very effective record as a legislator and by the way he was endorsed recently by the state of Georgia Right to Life Committee so he's really the pro -life leader in the race as well votejosh .com

01:49:20

now just out of curiosity I'm not an expert on Herschel Walker but I know that he's considered to be one of the greatest college football players of all time and is a winner of the

01:49:32

Heisman Trophy and was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame even played professionally for the

01:49:40

Eagles and the New York Giants he seems by profession to be a solid

01:49:47

Christian when I've seen interviews with him and very conservative on the vast majority of things in fact on every issue that I've heard him speak on why would your candidate and your friend be in your mind a superior candidate to someone like Herschel?

01:50:04

Well you know I don't want to say something negative about Herschel because he was such a wonderful football player and I admired him too when he was running and Josh even says he was my boyhood hero and very humble man yeah and he doesn't

01:50:17

I just when I watch him I don't think he can put two three sentences together in a coherent way and I just don't think you can have on -the -job training for a

01:50:27

U .S. Senate race but he has some appeal because he has been endorsed by Donald Trump and that carries a lot of weight in any place a lot of there's five candidates running against him hoping to you know that he may drop below 50 percent in May 24th and right now he's doing very well but he was at 75 percent of the polls back six months ago he's down to about 55 or 57 percent now so 20 days to go we'll see what happens but I just don't think he's really that qualified and you know

01:51:04

I've had to make I've worked myself a lot of campaigns I worked on Dan Quayle's staff when he ran for the

01:51:11

Senate the first time in Indiana and I've managed a lot of campaigns and I myself did run for lieutenant governor in my state didn't win but I made a good showing so I've had a lot of experience and I just know

01:51:23

Josh is just will be much better for the state of Georgia and he would be effective on policy and you know that's just that's what

01:51:32

I think well before we run out of time I want to give you five minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to the exodus mandate right well we started exodus mandate 25 years ago it is a christian ministry to assist and encourage christian families churches and pastors to leave behind the state -sponsored public school system for the promised land of k -12 campus christian schools or home schooling which would be bible base and christ center and we believe this could be a key for the revival of our families our churches and our nation right now we're losing so many of the political cultural battles they're everywhere we turn the left seems to be dominating and winning but in this arena that we're talking about right now we're seeing some tremendous success and people are fleeing the schools and going into home schooling and christian schooling at an enormous rate by the millions and if we could grow this movement up to 20 i mean excuse me 30 40 percent and that's uncertain we may reach a tipping point where the culture will abandon wholesale public education hand it back over to churches and families where it belongs and where it originally existed a lot of people don't know for the first 200 years of american history we had no state -run public schools in the united states all of the education at the k -12 level was offered by families private associations in parochial schools by church and churches so we want to go back to the original model american model which birthed this republic and returned to our christian heritage and this would also be very comparable to the scriptural model which is that christian people should give their children a christian education and not put them in pagan schools which is what so many are doing today happy to report that that is changing and we want to see it so i could use appeal to your audience and we could use your help go to exodusmandate .org

01:54:00

and check us out go to publicschoolexit .com if you're brand new and want to get started because there's more there about how to get started but you have to be a serious person to study that and if we can help you in any way contact us at exodusmandate at gmail .com

01:54:23

well we have time for a couple more questions we have ronald in eastern suffolk county long island new york who wants to know i am aware that there are several philosophies of christian education perhaps more but the ones that i am aware are private christian schools that insist both parents of the students there be christians there are others that say at least one parent has to be a christian and there are others that believe neither parent needs to be a christian and what is the model that you prefer if any i think i would accept the second model sometimes you have a family that's one parent is not a believer but certainly the mother or father if they are christian should have a right to put their kids in a christian school we think christian schools generally should be for christians we've seen where they get 10 or 50 and 20 percent are not christians and they take over and dominate the christian children you don't want to have a quorum of unbelievers that can badly influence the christian kids away from the lord but i think i would accept and that's been the policy of my family school where my wife taught for years they had to have at least one parent to be saved well we actually have an anonymous listener right now who is responding to that the anonymous listener says i am very familiar with a christian school that permits students to be enrolled without either parent being a christian but they run a very tight ship of discipline and the parents have to agree to the fact that the children are being taught biblical concepts and evangelical christianity and in addition to the reading writing and arithmetic would you fought that kind of a school that seems to be successful in spite of some of the students not having either parent as a christian leader in the home no absolutely not if they can make that work that would be fine we know some cases where christian schools have started up primarily to be evangelistic and that means they would have a lot of a non -christian kids but it would take a very tough staff discipline you might say cracking the whip in a situation like that and we've seen some of those cases where figuratively of course evangelizing the children successfully so i think there there's a place for different models it's just that i'm i'm familiar with the second one that your caller came in and that's what we've used and uh we see that works well in my family's case well i want to thank you so much for being on the program today and i want to make sure our listeners once again have all the information they need to follow up with you the website is exodusmandate .org

01:57:54

exodusmandate .org i want to thank you so much ray for being a superb guest look forward to your return to the program yeah thank you for having me and if you want some more people who are in my vineyard i can recommend some guests that would be similar to what i'm doing but they may be in a curriculum or have some special aspect of it and uh so and i sent you a bunch of literature so you can look that over so i can recommend some other guests because i think you have a good show if you have joe morecraft on several times a month it's got to be good and uh so uh those people that like him like me too amen well you might be interested in listening tomorrow because i have another guest that was recommended by dr morecraft dr kevin clausen yeah i know him very well great president and teacher of principles of law and principles of government at christendom bible college and we're going to be discussing reconquering the academy for christ yeah we know him very well that's great i thought that you were doing that well great i'm glad that you have a high regard for tomorrow's guest and i urge everybody who listened today to tune in tomorrow 4 to 6 p .m