Dead Men Walking Podcast Darren Doane: All My Friends Are Heretics, Bahnsen Economics, and Fresh 10

It was a little early on that.

Podcast Welcome and Listener Promotion

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast, where we own exactly 0 of Twitter, but we still like to give the board a hard time every now and then. So welcome back. And guys, thanks for sharing the podcast.

You can check us out online, dmwpodcast .com. You can find us on YouTube and, well, not Twitter, Instagram, how about that one? And Facebook at Dead Men Walking Podcast. And guys, we appreciate you sharing it.

That's the only way we grow, you know? I know we have an intelligent audience out there. You guys are reading books, you're reading the Bible, you're studying, you got your concordance, you got your theological and scholarly works next to you, but let's be honest, you guys are sharing some memes too.

And all we ask when you share a meme or two, make sure you share an episode of this or maybe share something on Instagram, Dead Men Walking Podcast. Cool, now that the selfless shame promotion is out of the way, we've got a For Pete on the show.

He is one of our highest listened to guests. I am happy to welcome back Mr. Darren Doan. What's up, brother? Is this four? This is four, baby. It's too live and too prerecorded. We couldn't do it without you.

All right, I love it, okay, this is great. We need a sticker to go on the old laptop here so we can have you in all the video episodes as well. Good to have you back. You got all kinds of stuff going on.

We're just gonna jump right into it. We don't waste time on this podcast. We're gonna talk about, obviously, a host of Doancast, which is a great podcast, but you got something new out, which I wanted to focus on.

All My Friends Are Heretics and the Theology Behind the Title

All my friends are heretics. I think I'm into the first three episodes or two or three. How many do you have out now? Is it three? Well, it depends where you're watching it. So if it's the podcast I'm watching the video.

I watched the first two videos for sure. That's two, the actual podcast is three and a half hours. That's out right now on the Fight Lab Feast Network. So you just go Fight Lab Feast Network or search it on iTunes or Spotify.

And it's been, yeah. So, I mean, I'll wait for the question, but yes. Well, first of all, I wanna know where you came up with that title because I'm a little jealous. It is very catchy. When I saw that title, All My Friends Are Heretics, the first thing I did was I got a little mad.

I go, why didn't I think of that for a podcast name, right? Because it's one of the greatest podcast names ever because instantly I'm clicking and I'm going, what the heck is he talking about? I love it.

So tell me a little bit about the evolution. Like where did it come from? The name, the subject matter, like it's going crazy. People are listening to it left and right and I enjoyed it. And we want our listeners to know about it.

So give us a little background on it. Yeah, I've had the name for a while, but not as a podcast name. I've had the name, I've wanted to do a, I've wanted to do a, my own conference for a long time. And I just thought at first I was gonna do a conference called like All My Friends Like to Drink Beer and Are Heretics.

It just sort of was this. And obviously I've always been intrigued by the idea that everybody actually kind of thinks everyone's a heretic, but what actually gets to be called heresy with an orthodoxy is just, you know, it's something that I'm, it's my only, the one thing I'm really passionate about from a hobby or interest is theology.

And, you know, so some of those things people say are true. I mean, Calvin wouldn't be allowed in a reformed church or, you know, Luther wouldn't be, you know, these are guys saying things like, you know, Mary was a virgin.

What are you talking about? She never had like, you know, you know, they were, yeah. So it's all, I mean, you know, you got Calvin saying stuff like it's a Christian in the womb. What do you, that baby's a Christian.

Like what, what camp does that put you in? Presbyterian, I think, I don't know. And so I've always, yeah, I think so, right. So, but what I, the serious but funny part to the answer question was, you know, I'm in a preterist camp, so I'm already in plenty, I'm close to what is the only like agreed upon heresy at this point, you know, is like full, like to me, there's only full preterism is the only agreed upon heresy at this point.

And to me, if I got to write the rule book on what was heresy, like for me, I'd be, and I won't, and I never would, but if I, but if Darren Doan got to write the book on heresy, I would look at like this really crazy view of free will, and I'd be like, that to me was more offense, like full free will is way more offensive to me than full preterism.

Right. Like I'm more offended by one than the other. Right. But only one is an agreed upon heresy. Right. Right. So, so it's, I just think like, well, all my friends are heretics because when we talk behind closed doors, everyone's got wacky views.

So that was the idea of the name. Yeah, so that, that was kind of it for me, which is that behind closed doors. Yeah. So yeah, great name. So give me a little bit about what the podcast is about and, and those first couple episodes, cause they were pretty intense, man.

Hard Conversations, Church Leadership, and the Gospel Changes Hearts

The goal behind the whole podcast for me is to sit down and have very in-depth conversations on things that are just really gnarly, really intense, or really deep that I've always wanted to have with a certain group of people.

And Doug Wilson, my pastor is one of them. And I wanted to hit him with every controversy and have that conversation. Yeah, so here's the thing. A lot of people, when they get into someone who has a little bit of notoriety within a certain area, right?

I see this in politics. You'll have someone talk about someone and I don't like this and I don't like that. And the minute they meet their congressman or they meet this or that, the governor, they go, oh, we love what you're doing.

You're great. And it's a lot of tickling, itching ears and platitudes, right? What I noticed on this podcast, on your first couple episodes that I watched, first of all, you're very respectful, of course.

You always are, but boy, were you hard hitting. I mean, you went right to the hard hitting stuff that a lot of people don't wanna talk about. I don't, you know, we'll give away some spoilers here for those who haven't listened, but please go do if you haven't.

I mean, we jumped right into talking about pedophilia for crying out loud on episode one. And like, what does that mean when someone is redeemed and what does that mean as a church leader if you have that happening in your church?

And I mean, you just dove right into it and I really love the fact that you did not hold back. You didn't care who was sitting across from you. If, you know, famous pastor, famous author, whatever it is, and you guys just really got into it.

And it was so refreshing to see that. Was that kind of the idea of the podcast too? Like have these gnarly conversations, but just be real and raw and not really hold back? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But there was, but it wasn't even that premeditated.

I just wanted to have these conversations. I just wanted to have them. I didn't think, oh, this is good for Christ Church or, oh, this would be good for Doug. I just wanted to do it. I just, I wanted to have the conversation.

Like, and I'm blown away by what it's doing. Something's gonna come out in the next week or so that I think is gonna shock the world because of this podcast. There's something coming that we already know has happened because of the first two podcast episodes that is going to shake the entire evangelical reformed world.

Something's coming because of this as the result of this. And it's gonna, it's a game changer. Really? Is that something that you can leak here on Dead Men Walking? Or is that something we're holding back until that thing drops?

Can you give us a hint? The gospel changes hearts. Okay. And it changes your enemies into friends. Okay, interesting. I like that teaser. Yeah, you do work with marketing, you son of a gun. Give us nothing.

It's only because I want someone else's voice to be the one that shares it, you know? Right, no, I hear you. But this is, it's been one of the most, it's been one of the most powerful, the last couple of days and things that have happened because of this podcast.

I've been in tears for hours sporadically on what this little thing has done that I would have never dreamed. Yeah. Yeah, so what I like, and for those listening who aren't familiar with Darren, what I really like is we see a lot, and especially on Don't Cast and on Instagram and Twitter and the other places you are in social media, we're talking a lot about marketing, advertising, social media, all that stuff.

This podcast actually really let you kind of show your interview skills, your listening skills, kind of, it was a different, it was kind of different than the different Darren that I was used to, which I liked.

I kind of saw a different side of you. And then I went, wow, these are two totally different podcasts. Same guy hosting both of them, but totally different in approach, totally different in subject matter.

Even tempo was a little bit different as well too, to where I feel like Don't Cast is a real quick, I mean, you're getting to stuff. This was thought out. This was a little more tempered. Can you talk about that a little bit on how that is when you shift gears and you get into that zone of, okay, we're talking about serious things.

You're giving serious input. The guest is giving serious input. How was that to change gears for you? I mean, those are usually the conversations I have in life. So for me, it was just being what I, I mean, that really is how I am.

If I had a chance to be with you, I mean, you've seen me off the air. I mean, I'm asking about real estate. I'm asking about your jobs and what are you doing? How much are you making a week? Like, you know me, I'm asking the questions.

Like I want to know. So to me, that's just what I do. And, but let me say, I was really inspired by you guys. You know, people have asked me, oh, so this is you doing Joe Rogan? Or I mean, obviously Rogan's a huge influence and you can't take that away.

My influence was much more of a Charlie Rose growing up watching Charlie Rose do these interviews with people on PBS was always my dream. Like I want to do that. And that show was so short, but you could find the extended interviews, like him doing Quentin Tarantino interviews were like an hour long.

And it was, I always was inspired by that, but I was really inspired by you guys, honestly, because you guys have had some subjects in the last year where like, I'm looking at the Instagram snippet and I'm like, are they talking about this?

I was like, when did this? I was like, and so that really was kind of inspiring for me because I was like, oh, like for me, we always talk about it's like being a punk band and you guys played a riff.

And I was like, wait, you're allowed to play that riff? And it really planted a seed of something that I'd been thinking about. And I was like, oh, so you guys really were a big influence on me actually finally going, you know what?

Hey, Doug, why don't we sit down and do five hours? And so it is, that's just, those are the conversations that I have. And I'm pretty hard on my friends. I mean, I like pushing to see, wait, why? And so, you know, it was, obviously it was a great kickoff episode.

I've got, I think I've got James White coming in a few weeks. And I wanted to get into you, right? I want to get, I mean, there's a lot of people that I've wanted to grill. Sure. Yeah, so that, and this is, look, this is my key.

This is my geek space. I know this, some people know baseball, comic books, they know music. Look, I know enough about theology and this game and this world to have very geeky conversations. And so I'm finally, I'm opening that door.

Interview Style, Audience Metrics, and Creating for the Long Term

You're doing it. So yeah, you led me right to my next question, but first of all, thank you so much for saying those kind words. I would reciprocate and say, the first time we met you down at Fight Laugh Feast, we had four or five people on, they were very proper.

Yes, and then, you know, we had Uncle DeMar on there, Gary, and we had a Jeff Durbin and they were very, yep, and this is the point and counterpoint and right. And then you sat down and you grabbed the mic off the stand, you wrapped the cord up, you kicked your feet up.

And Jason and I looked at each other and went, oh yeah, this is the kind of podcast we want to do. Like this guy gets it. Like we can talk about heavyweighty stuff, have a little fun as well, make a punk rock reference.

You know, we just had an episode come out last week about Led Zeppelin and then we go to scripture and people are probably going, who are these heretics? Right? Throwback to the name, but it's like, yeah, yeah, all your friends.

If you go far enough, everyone's a heretic, which I love that point you made earlier in the show here. But yeah, so it was, I think we're vibing on the kind of the same level. I would say though, I love seeing that other side of you.

And so my next question was, who do you have coming up? And it sounds like you kind of let that cat out of the bag. So N .T. Wright, James White, excuse me. Yeah, those are going to be big, heavy interviews.

How are you going to approach that? I mean, you're just sitting down and you're talking, right? Yep. I mean, it's the exact same thing. I don't really plan. Again, I just, there's no gotcha. I just like to get in and just start talking with people.

Again, in a way that I'm, you know, back to Rogan. Rogan was the perfect person to do UFC commentary because he was a geek on a mixed martial, a lifelong mixed martial artist or martial. And he knew it.

He was there. He understands it, you know. And no one really, you know, you start to think about your place and what can you carve out? And it was like, man, I have a lot of useless information and understanding of this subculture.

I want to start talking about it. I want to get John Frame, you know. I would have liked to have had Gary North who just passed away. You know, Greg Strobber just passed away. There's also some big, big heavy hitters that I've known.

And I would have loved to have had this format with them. And so I just want to keep diving deep in with some of these guys. And maybe if there is a, maybe if there's a, okay, what am I trying to do? Because I didn't, but I think what's happening is there's a lot of humanity when you talk to people a certain way.

Yeah. It's like, I want to really talk to James White because he's a weird dude. Yeah, he is. Right. He's a weird dude with like a couple of weird tattoos. Like he's just, there's just some weird, not tribal, but like hippie stuff.

Like there's just some, you know, like I just want to get like, so with James, I just want to get to know James. Like who are you? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's so funny. Who are you? The world needs to know who is James White.

We've been saying for about a year and a half here on the podcast, we want to be the first guys to have James White on a podcast and not talk about theology at all. We just want to talk about his sweaters, the bikes you ride, you know, why you have a split personality to the nicest guy and the grumpiest guy at the same time.

Like, so yeah. And then how did you become, and then how did you become the only human being in Christendom to write a book that was understandable on the Trinity? Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, it's weird.

It's so true. But so yeah, so you got some other guys coming out. I'm going to ask you a technical question. You don't have to answer it if you don't want here on the podcast, but when you're looking at kind of how the downloads are going and how the views are going and the response, and I love people that say, oh, I don't read any of my critics.

I actually look at, I look at the negative and the positive, and if I can take something constructive out of the negative, I try to. I'm a big person in introspecting, introspecting. It's probably something I can fix.

I'm not going to blame someone else for something I've done. I want to look and see how I can fix that. So when you're looking at like views and listens and things like that, because we talked about this before we started here, started recording, I see for me personally on this podcast, for Jason and I, we see a big gap between people listening versus people watching.

Is that something that you look at when you start something like this, a new podcast that just goes to hundreds of thousands of listens in the first couple, 24 hours? Are you looking and going, hey, I need to make up some numbers or I need to get more penetration on the video side or more on the listen side or more on this platform?

Or do you just go, hey, put it in the funnel. It's all good. Like what's your professional thoughts on that since you're in that industry? I'm still a big believer on not worrying about the numbers. Okay.

I think you should probably give it two, three years before you get concerned with the numbers. And unless you told me this was the only way your family was going to eat. Right. Then I'd say, okay, that's a different game that we're playing.

But I think all of us started this relatively like a few years ago, within the last couple of years. So we're all babies at doing this. And I think we got to get out of grade school before we even start worrying about, junior high issues of who likes us or not.

I think this is a great, this is great for us to be learning, getting better, building relationships, producing content, audio, learning things, video. Okay. It's a Sunday night. What's the sacrifice?

What are we doing? Okay. Like all these things are making us better at communicators. And so I really still am a big fan of just, look, give it a year or two or three. Like I just started looking at my numbers a few months ago.

And so three years in, starting in my fourth year, I just started looking at my numbers. Yeah. And I'm not saying this from a point, I think you would agree. It's not a point of pride or how many people am I reaching?

I really look and go, what content is bringing value to listeners? Why are they listening for a certain length? Maybe what could we focus on more if we have an audience that really prefers a certain subject?

I just always find it amazing that for like this podcast, personally, we have such a wide gap between people who listen, which is pretty good, to people who view. And I know we talked about that too. Sometimes it takes a little bit more, you know, in post like editing a certain way and things like that on video.

So you're saying if you're in an infancy or you're at a certain point, just keep producing quality content and that'll come? Or do you look at those and go, I want to see those numbers kind of level out.

One's more important than the other. You're just saying, hey, look it, throw it in the funnel and it's all gonna equal out in the end. I think if you go with quantity, you'll find out what the audience tells you is quality.

Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's a bigger survey. It's a bigger cast of a net for, you know, for that 10 ,000 person survey versus the 500 person survey. Yeah. Absolutely. And again, I think, look, it's a fine line.

You know, you think about a band that's got six or seven albums, right? They got to start figuring out what's that set list, right? And that's a lot of work, you know? And so trying to please your audience at the same time, also trying to bring them something new.

Yeah, it's a crazy balance, but I think this is probably one of those places where I think if you continue to keep yourself interested in what you're doing, I think it will translate to the audience as opposed to just saying, hey, you know, what does the audience want?

That's kind of my quick take on it. So do you have that gene like I do where you go, oh, I think people would like this, but this is more interesting to me. So guess what? I'm just going to do that because I'm a little bit selfish.

I mean, I do have that gene. I don't know if I use it here though. I mean, I really do just like, I like making stuff. I just like making stuff and when I complete it, I'm like, hey, I finished something.

And so I like finishing a podcast. I like finishing a movie, a commercial, five little pieces of content. For me, that's the release. I don't, again, I don't really look at numbers. I don't even try to get followers really.

I'm still very much intrigued on learning how to be a communicator. I don't hashtag certain things. I don't think I've ever even asked a question on any of my platforms. And I'm fine with people doing that, but I've never even posed a question.

Wow. Which people do, which people do a lot of, hey, what are you doing this weekend? Or, hey, have you ever thought of, is this something, like, I don't even, for me, for me to do that, I know I'd be baiting.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so I just don't do that. And so I still like trying to learn how to be a better communicator. To me, at the end of the day, that's still what I'm trying to do. And you know what?

Last three years, it's worked for my business and what we do. But I think all of what I've been learning led to, right now, interviewing Doug Wilson in a particular way. The way I did the content, the way I filmed it, the way I wanted to record it, it got me there and that will now get me somewhere else.

So I think there's moments where you get to cash in on the experience. And so that's kind of the way I sort of see that process going. Yeah. So let's shift gears a little bit here as we wind down the episode.

Bahnsen Economics and Building a Christian Curriculum

So you always have a lot of irons in the fire, so to speak. What are some other projects you're working out there in the little kingdom of Moscow, as we call it out here in the Midwest? Oh man. Give us a taste.

Like Moscow proper or just things I'm working on? Just what you're working on out there. You guys, I know you guys are building your kingdom, but you know, what are you working on? I mean, we've got some really, I mean, we're trying to put a crazy high-end steakhouse, bourbon room out here.

Like we want the best, biggest, amazing steakhouse here. Yeah. Pacific Northwest. I personally, in a few weeks, I head out to Southern California, starting the... This is the first time I've talked about it really live.

So I did a post, but in three weeks, I kick off building David Bonson's economic content curriculum. I saw that. And I think this is just a crazy game changer. So we're going to be creating between a masterclass and curriculum for high school and college and just life in general.

We think part one of the most comprehensive economics curriculum ever made, especially from a worldview standpoint, how to think of economics. So this will be something that, I think it's going to change people's lives, but it'll also be, if you want to get it in masterclass form, boom, you can buy that.

You want to get a curriculum so you can get a full credit in high school, boom, you can get it that way. You want to do it for college. I'm building out the curriculum in such a way where it will be available for everybody.

If you're a school and you want this, boom, you can license it here. You want to create your own study guide and workbooks, you can do, you can license that. If you want us to provide it, boom, we'll have it here.

This is just going to be, this is some like legacy level type stuff with David Bonson. So it's very near and dear to my heart. And you know, this thing, I want to have this pre-selling, you know, beginning of, you know, mid summer, I want people, boom, I'm clicking this, I'm buying this, boom, Bonson Economics.

I want that word, Bonson Economics, to be a thing that when people say it, they know what you mean. So when you say curriculum too, I'm guessing this will be open to people like me who homeschool as well and has middle schoolers and people going into high school that go, I want a solid, you know, I want to teach my kids the things that public school never taught me.

They're going to be coming out of the gate with an insane credit score, with investments in the bank, with an entrepreneurial mind, and they're going to be ruling, you know, their culture and their businesses right out of the gate.

So this is something that would even apply to that. Everybody, 100%. I mean, I'll come back. Believe me, when I get that done real soon, I'm going to be hitting everybody up going, I want to come and talk for an hour about this.

This is where you buy it. I've never pushed anything to buy. You know me, I'm like, I want to talk. I want to give away. You know, we're putting a massive, massive amount of firepower into this product.

And I can't wait to blow people's minds. Yeah. And Bonson is just such a great guy. I know Jason here on the podcast, he does day trading and things like that. And him and Bonson are on a text back and forth and they're just swapping stuff.

I mean, the guy is huge and he's, you know, managing billions of dollars. And he has time to, you know, text Jason here and go, hey, what about this? Or what he thought about that? And it's so cool that it's like guys like that, guys like you, guys like him that go, look it, I'm going to give freely of my time because I have, it always comes back in the end, man.

It always comes back around. And then you have people who sit and they hold and they hoard everything and they go, why aren't I getting those opportunities? Why aren't these things landing for me? And it's like, it's a biblical principle too, right?

The more you give, I mean, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he has a line in there that goes, you know, the more you give away, the more you get. And I don't understand it. And I read it when I was 19 and I'm going, oh, it's the Bible.

It's the Bible, dude. It's a biblical, godly principle. And I love seeing you two hook up. I really got a chuckle when you misquoted how much he managed in assets. I think you said 2 .9 billion. He said, oh, 3 billion.

Look at that. You already just added a hundred million to my portfolio or whatever those numbers were. I was like, oh, these two guys are going to be great together. Yeah, no, it was actually funny too because I double checked the number before I posted it.

It's always changing. Yeah. Cause he had just posted an article on Forbes with like two days ago. So I went out to the Forbes one. I saw 2 .9 billion. I go, oh, I thought it was 3 .6. So I put 2 .9 billion in.

That's just what David manages is the 2 .9. The Watson group is 3 .6. Nice. So I put the 2 .6. We were kind of both right. Right, right. With the billion. Yeah, what's a billion here or there between friends, right?

So yeah, we'll be looking out for that curriculum. And obviously you're welcome back on to speak to that because I think that is greatly needed. We have such a deficit in public, private charter and even homeschooling to where we don't understand finances correctly, the economics of things.

I think, you know, I'm partial, but my kids were homeschooled. I was homeschooled. I think we do a better job than government schools in that area. But to have that type of help on my side, if you create a curriculum, I'm probably going to be in first in line to purchase that.

There is no Christian economic curriculum out there. Yeah. It does not exist. You want to talk about understanding the market and you know, like this is, it doesn't exist. There's a couple books you can get, but an actual full credit, like, can I take a class and get full credit based on what you need for that?

I know that's in one sense arbitrary and how people set that. But the point is it's not just a book by R .C. Sproul Jr. That's not enough. You need an entire course. You need a curriculum to understand the worldview of economics.

It does not exist from a Christian worldview standpoint and we're making it. Yeah. I love it. Cool. Well, let's round this. Let's put some bookends in on this. We're going to do a little segment we call Fresh 10.

Fresh 10 Questions with Darren Doane

That's where we take 10 fresh questions. We ask them to a fresh guest. He does not know what we're going to ask him. There'll be a little quirky, a little off the wall, but I think Darren Doan can roll with it.

Darren, are you ready? No.

Here we go. Let's do it. All right, here we go.

Fresh 10 questions for Darren Doan. We're going to start off easy. Number one, what city and state did you grow up in and how did that affect your childhood? I grew up in Westlake Village slash Thousand Oaks, California, a little tiny town that was about 30 miles north of Hollywood.

It affected me because I was 30 miles from Hollywood where in the nineties where every band was going to be, every actor was going to be. To the suburb where I live. So it's, you know, it's Shaq, it's Wayne Gretzky, it's Will Smith.

Can you say that name anymore? Everyone started moving out to where I live. So, from the influence of just music and culture in Hollywood and seeing famous people all the time to where it doesn't affect you, like that forms you.

Nice. Love it. Question number two, when playing Monopoly, what is your favorite property to own and why? When I play Monopoly, I play Monopoly like I play every board game, which is, I don't know what I'm doing and I just keep rolling the dice and moving the pieces and I never acquire anything.

And I want to see how quickly someone can get me out of the game. Okay, fair enough. Question number three, who would win in a fight? Iron Man or the Hulk? And my eight-year-old is very interested in this answer.

He's thinking, you know, he's thinking. It's the Hulk. It's the Hulk. Okay, I think so, right? We're going to leave it there. All right, who's your favorite actor? Who's your favorite actor, dead or alive?

Question number four. Oh, dead or alive. Favorite actor, you know, I don't, I'd have to probably think about it, but recently I was thinking, Denzel Washington is just so good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he just keeps ripping out great movies.

I mean, so I'm going Denzel. And you know, Tom Cruise. I think Tom Cruise is insane. I love him. Tom Cruise and Denzel. There we go. All right, question number five. Top three albums or bands that have influenced you your life the most?

Doesn't have to be three. It can be one, two, or three, but what are those top at least one album or band that has influenced your life the most? Wait, one or three. You can give us one, two, or three, up to three.

Rush. Jane's Addiction. Great. Iron Maiden. Nice. Those are three qualities. All right, I like them. Number six, favorite sport to watch versus favorite sport to play. Basketball to watch. I mean, I'm old, I don't play any more sports.

I mean, honestly, I mean, probably play, at this point it would be softball. Softball. All right, I like it. I mean, I think I can still hit a ball out of the park, so. No shame in that. All right, question number seven, moving right along.

What do people misunderstand about you the most? Ooh, I've never thought about myself that much. I think I probably, I think I come across angry. Like, I think people think I'm angry on my face. It just does that angry thing.

I'm, so I think maybe people think I'm always just angry, but I'm actually not. You're in a good mood. I like it. All right, three more. Question number eight, if you could sit down for a cup of coffee with any historical figure, who would it be and why?

Oh, I think I would sit down with, man, I would like to, I'd like to talk to Lincoln. Yeah, interesting, right? I'd like to ask him if he was baptized. And that, my friend, is why. No, because there's no, well, because there's no record, there's no record of Lincoln being baptized.

It's just a really weird hole in the story of Lincoln. So I'd just be really, I'd like to ask him that. And that's why you have a successful theological podcast, my friend. Yeah, I don't want to ask him about anything else.

Why were you baptized? What's going on, Lincoln? Yeah, all right, question number nine, this one's a personal interest to me. At what time of the day are you most creative and get your best work done?

Five, 6 a .m. Really? You're an early morning creative guy. Yep, that's it. Everything else is, I have to try really hard, for real. Wow, my creative juices don't get going until about 6 p .m. and then I'm usually up till midnight.

That's my six hours, that's crazy. Okay, so I would've took you for like an afternooner, but you're an early guy. I have two hours in the morning, five to seven or six to eight, honestly. As far as creative, now I can work, but creative, like it's popping, that's it.

Yep, that's me too. Okay, last question, what book outside of the Bible should everyone at least take a look at? No matter where they are in life or what they do, what's just a good book that you go, you wanna know what, that's solid, you should at least peruse it?