Job 4:12-21

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We left off last week, and I want to pick up where we stopped.
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And we stopped just before Eliphaz, who is the first one to speak to Job after Job breaks his silence.
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And Eliphaz has this vision, and I want to spend a few minutes considering that vision that he has and some thoughts that perhaps would come out of that.
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But let's just read the text first.
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So I'm going to pick it up in chapter 4 in verse 12, and we'll read through the end to verse 21.
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Remember, Eliphaz is the speaker, and he says, now word was secretly brought to me, and my ear received the whisper of it in disquieting thoughts from the visions of the night when deep sleep falls on men.
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And fear came upon me in trembling, which made all my bones shake.
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Then a spirit passed before my face.
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The hair of my body stood up.
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It stood still, but I cannot discern its appearance.
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The form was before my eyes, and there was silence.
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And I heard a voice saying, can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his maker? If he puts no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error, how much more those who dwell in the house of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, who are crushed before a moth, they are broken in pieces from morning till evening.
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They perish forever with no one regarding.
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Does not their own excellence go away? They die even without wisdom.
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And so as we begin, Eliphaz now is continuing his speech.
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And in a sense, he's going to use this vision that he had to support what he has said to Job.
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And what he has said to Job has been, if you remember what we talked about last week, that as Eliphaz started, he started out very graciously.
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And then it all kind of went downhill as he began to, in a sense, accuse Job.
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And basically, as I said last week and will continue to say, that all of the friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophaz, that they really can't get beyond this.
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And that Job really is reaping what he's sown, whether it was done in secret and they're not aware of it.
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They basically are looking at what? They're basically looking at what could be seen.
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And so they look at Job's life, and they see that it's in turmoil.
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They see that he's lost so much.
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And so they assume, they make an assumption, at least in my understanding, they make an assumption that he is reaping what he has sown.
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And of course, as we go through the book, we'll see that continues to be a theme over and over again as it works out in the speeches.
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But so now he has this vision.
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And I thought this was a good time maybe to stop and think about this whole idea of dreams and visions a little bit, as Eliphaz has it, but also in a wider sense, because we don't usually talk about dreams and visions.
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I think we kind of lay that aside.
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And so let's just think about this a little bit, this whole idea of dreams and visions.
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So let me ask you a question.
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As we read this, and it says in verse 12, now a word was secretly brought to me, and my ear received a whisper of it in disquieting thoughts and visions of the night.
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Is this something that could be, can this be trusted? As Eliphaz had, we're in chapter 4, and we're talking about the vision that Eliphaz has.
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Is this something that can be trusted, this whole idea of this vision that he has? OK.
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I'm glad you all feel that way about this.
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It's weird looking at it from this perspective.
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You know what I'm saying? When you talk about dreams and visions, when you think about Hebrews chapter 1, it says how then we would say no dreams and visions should be honored unless they are in line with God's word.
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Not in this current day.
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Yeah, in this current day.
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Where do you go to find that? Yeah, so I'm going to do this.
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Old Testament, New Testament, and then I'll do it this way.
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This Pentecost.
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Because would you agree that basically, without getting into the smaller things like the law and the prophets and the writings and the poetic books and the different things, that basically you can make this, if you will, trichotomy of that really there is the Old Testament, and then there's the New Testament, and then there's this distinction from the time of the resurrection on? Would that be a fair way to kind of look at the Bible in a broad way from a high level? I think it would.
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So Eliphaz has this vision.
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And would you say that visions were prominent in any one of these more than any other? Just think about it for a minute.
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This whole idea of vision.
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Because what's interesting is he doesn't really say the Lord.
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What he says is, a word was secretly brought to me.
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My ear received a whisper of it in disquieting thoughts from the visions of the night when deep sleep falls on men.
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So he doesn't necessarily say, as the prophets would have said, the Lord opened my eyes to see this or that.
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So if you had to look at it and think about it, where would visions and dreams be most prominent? Ma'am? OK.
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Do we have any way of supporting that? I mean, just let's think about it.
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There were so many in the Old Testament who had dreams and visions, weren't there? You could think of Abraham.
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You could think of Samuel.
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You could think of Nathan.
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You could think of Ezekiel.
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You could think of Zechariah.
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You could think of Isaiah.
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You could think of so many.
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You could think certainly of Daniel.
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Almost the whole book of Daniel is almost.
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So this whole idea of dreams and visions could be, we could say they were prominent in the Old Testament, weren't they? Now, what about in the New Testament? Who? Peter had a vision.
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Who else had a vision? Paul had visions.
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John? Joseph? Were there not others that had visions? And it wasn't necessarily confined to people, even as you consider it in the Old Testament, it wasn't necessarily confined to just those that were worshipers of God.
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Were there not others that had dreams and visions in the Old Testament? Sure there was.
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Didn't Nebuchadnezzar have a dream? Didn't Belshazzar see something? Were there not things revealed? What I guess what I'm trying to say is, as we consider what Eliphaz says here, that this was, in a sense, not that out of the box as far as how God, because remember we talked about that last week.
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We talked about how God has revealed himself, and you brought up Hebrews 1, which is where we find that truth, that as God's revelation moved forward, that God spoke in times past in different ways and in different manners.
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And there is a great deal of evidence in the Old Testament of visions and dreams, and that you and I ought to think about it.
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What was the restriction around dreams and visions, if you could think about it? Were there any restrictions? Because Eliphaz has this vision, and he talks about it, and I'll just ask us to think about it.
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He says in verse 14, Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones shake, and a spirit passed before my face, and the hair of my body stood up, and it stood still, and I couldn't discern its appearance, and on and on and on.
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That as you think about it, was there any restriction to this whole idea of dreams and visions, or was it just, someone said they had a vision, then it had to be true.
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Is that the case? Did God put any boundaries around this whole idea of dreams and visions? Would have to come to pass.
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And again, there were dreams that were, in that sense, prophetic as they looked forward, right? But there were also dreams and visions, just like Eliphaz has, and I believe that this takes place at this point.
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I don't believe that Eliphaz is saying, you know, three years ago, I had this vision of this thing that took place, but I think he's saying, and he's using it in a way to support what he's saying to Job.
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And I just thought it was worthwhile to consider a couple of different scriptures, and so I want to look at a couple, because, again, we don't often, I think we, especially as Reformed people, we kind of, as soon as we hear dreams and visions, what do you think is the normal reaction from people? Right, yeah, okay.
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That's not for us.
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We don't do that.
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And yet, I don't know.
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I think, well, I'm not going to say what I was going to say.
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I was going to say Daniel and those guys were pretty Reformed, in my mind.
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But, so, let's look at a couple of scriptures about this whole idea.
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So, go to Deuteronomy 13 for a minute, because I think it's worthwhile.
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Because certainly there was the idea of, as you said, brother, that if someone had a vision, and they said, thus saith the Lord, the requirement for that to be a true vision would have to be what? That it comes to pass.
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If God reveals, well, then it must come to pass.
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So, let's just read this in Deuteronomy 13 for a minute.
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It says, If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods which have not known, and let us serve them, you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.
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For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
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So, as you read that, is there not then a boundary around this whole idea of dreams and visions, that it really has to be something that is in line with the truth of God, and that it has to actually be something that comes to pass.
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Not necessarily, because as it says, if someone says, Let us go and serve other gods, you shall not listen to those words.
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So, that certainly is giving to us an attachment to this idea of dreams and visions, and that as we consider it in Job, as Eliphaz says this, we are not going to doubt his experience, are we? We are not going to say he is lying, he did not have this vision.
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I believe he had a vision, but I am not going to just say that just because he had a dream or had a vision, that that means that it is authentic in the sense of it is coming from God, because again, it does not say that.
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All it says is that he had a dream and a vision.
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Let us look at one more section about this.
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Go to the book of Jeremiah for a minute.
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Jeremiah 23.
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I am going to look at a couple of verses also in Job, because it will speak about it too.
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So, in Jeremiah 23, in verse 9, it says, My heart within me is broken, because of the prophets, all my bones shake.
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I am like a drunken man, like a man whose wine is overcome, because of the Lord, and because of his holy words, for the land is full of adulterers.
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For because the curse of the land mourns, do pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up.
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And he goes on in verse 11, for both prophet and priest are profane.
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Yes, in my house I have found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
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And then if you drop down to verse 16, thou saith the Lord of hosts, do not listen to the words of the prophets, who prophesy to you, they make you worthless.
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They speak a vision of their own heart, and not from the mouth of the Lord.
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They continually say to those who despise me, The Lord has said, You shall have peace.
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And to everyone who walks according to his imagination of his own heart, no evil shall come upon you.
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And you and I could read many sections in the Old Testament where God warns that if someone has a vision, someone has a dream, someone wants to say that God revealed something to them in secret, that one of the things that were to be considered was, is it true and verifiable in the sense that it's coming from the Lord.
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Remember the scripture in the New Testament says we ought not to believe every spirit, but test the spirits.
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I mean, when Joseph had the dream, how did he know that it was a dream come from God? Well, it says the angels appeared to him in a dream.
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So, I guess what I'm asking us to think about and consider is, has anybody ever gotten into a conversation with someone about dreams and visions, by the way? Yes? No? Maybe so? And it's very hard to break someone's experience, right? It's like you and I saying, I had a dream last night, and I was Superman.
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Now, you all know that's baloney.
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But we all have this whole idea of dreams and visions, and if you will, the things that take place that are outside the norm, that we all have some experience with it, don't we? Has anyone never had a dream? I'm not talking about a prophetic dream.
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We all dream, right? And if you don't, eat some hot sauce before you go to bed, and you'll dream.
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Or have a piece of chocolate.
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This whole idea of dreams and visions is something that we have to deal with, and it's not always as straight and narrow as you might want to think, but the reality is as Eliphaz has revealed his vision, and now he's going to use it against Job, and basically say, well, Job, I had a vision about the very thing I just spoke to you about, that we ought to be very careful about making too quick or rash a decision about certain things.
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I wanted to show you something also back in the book of Job.
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So go back to the book of Job, and I want you to look in Job chapter 33.
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I want to show you something.
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You didn't ask us to think about it.
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In Job chapter 33, and this is Elihu, by the way, who is the fourth friend that comes in towards the end of the book.
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Just pick it up in verse 13.
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Elihu says to Job, Why do you contend with him, for he does not give an accounting of any of his words? For God may speak in one way or in another, yet man does not perceive it.
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In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls upon men, while stumbling, slumbering on their beds, he opens the ears of men, and he seals their instruction, in order to turn men from his deed, and conceal pride from men.
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And he keeps back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.
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And I've always taken that, that God uses everything at his disposal, and everything is at God's disposal, to instruct us.
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And that even in that area of what people might call the subconscious, or the unconscious, or whatever way they want to define it or break it out, and I certainly don't know all the right terms, that there's a reality that God is continually revealing himself to us, and sometimes it comes in different ways.
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Now again, gotta be careful, because we don't want to say, that just because I dreamed I was Superman, I'm being prophetic.
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Ma'am? Don't jump off the house.
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I won't, baby.
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But, what think you? Do you think that we we do you think sometimes we under value the things that God does? Or do you think, at times, other people over values that? Like I've talked to Christians who say, you know, the Lord revealed to me in a dream, that I should go left instead of go right.
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What do you do with that? What do we do with that? We just write it off and say, Sister? Okay.
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Because...
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Right.
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If they speak not according to the truth, it's because what? No truth is in them.
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So that's that's one category.
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Another one is, again, as I said, what if you have a dream where God says, go left and not go right? What do you test that against? Brother? I mean, usually I've had people tell me certain things, dreams or whatever, and and against God's word, or for God's word, but to get there, they had to violate a lot, and for whatever reason, you're so caught up in the dream and the vision, you've done things that may not be fixed in to get to that outcome, and then you know, if you have to do these things, you know, like, I had a guy tell me, what's a strip club? And the stripper was his wife.
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And...
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Was this the dream or the reality? He had a big, he went to a strip club for real.
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He had a dream that a stripper was his wife.
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And he left his wife because he thought he had married for occasion, what about, you know, all those things, but he literally was so strong, he did it, and he was like a long time associate of mine, and his life just spiraled from like a box straight to the...
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That's a wild story.
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I mean, but again, do we not all have things that go on in that, if you will, in the realm of the unseen, uncertain, that we have to deal with it in one way or another, and again, I think you ought to be careful that, as I said, if it's just a matter of going left and right, there really is, that in and of itself is not verifiable, is it? But if it's a truthful thing, like if you have a dream that you should commit adultery, we know that that is not from God, right? Why? Because we have the truth of the word of God.
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So again, this whole idea of these different things that take place have to be weighed out, and even, and so as you think about it, even in the book of from Acts on, is there not a time in these things that take place, and then what happens as it progresses? In other words, should we be looking for those dreams and visions today? Why not? If not.
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Sir? Again, going back to Hebrews chapter 1.
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Right.
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God speaks to us now through His Son Christ.
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Right.
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And I've always, just the way it says in Revelation, and even in Deuteronomy, right? If it's already been revealed, I don't need it.
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Right? Because it's already been revealed.
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And if it's not been revealed, I don't want it.
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Right? I mean, again, it's like, you don't want to add to the word of God, you don't want to take away from the word of God, and the reality is we have the canon.
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We have the revealed will of God.
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Now again, I don't believe, I don't believe, that people are receiving futuristic visions of God, and that doesn't mean that we don't have to deal with this whole area of, as it says in Job, that God reveals certain things to us to keep us back from, basically, if we read what it says, that God seeks to lower our pride and to keep us back from things.
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I mean, I said I don't want to get too far into this whole thing, but would not some of us say that we've had the same dreams over and over again? Of the same situation? Of the same thing? And then you get into people who try to interpret that stuff, and those people need some real help, because those people get into well, that's how you were brought up when you were a little baby.
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I mean, it gets really kind of bizarre, right? And we get into all these therapies and psychoanalysts, and some of those people, some of the people who try to analyze other people are the very people who need to be analyzed, because they are way, way out there, and they relate certain things.
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I guess I just wanted to kind of bring that up to us because I don't think it's a subject that we often speak about, and I thought that as this comes up, because Eliphaz is going to use this, right? And he begins to and you'll see as it goes on, Job's going to come back at him, and Job's going to say do you think just because you had a dream that that's going to make your argument any stronger? Because Job is going to retain his integrity throughout the book.
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He's not going to be persuaded just even in that sense by dreams or visions or and again, I don't doubt that he had this vision, I just I'm very cautious, again, if he said, thus sayeth the Lord, and he was a true prophet in that sense, then then we would have to pay more attention to it.
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So before I leave that, any other thoughts about this whole idea of dreams, visions that takes place? I think there's also the idea that if you question someone when they say they've had a dream or a vision, I mean talking about experiences, I've had experiences where someone would say, well who are you to tell me? You know? Why are you questioning me? Well, we have these standards to go by, that's why for one thing.
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The thing is, you can never really break someone's experience because their experience is what? It's their experience.
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And so again, we've got to use wisdom and if someone comes up to you and says I had a dream, you can't say to them you didn't have a dream, right? And if they care to speak about it and discuss it with you, to your point, our only real standard for truth and righteousness is here.
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But again, to try to break someone's experience is a very difficult thing.
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And I'm not so sure that we are called to try to get to that point where we're trying to break someone's experience.
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Again, if they have a dream and a vision and we know it's totally against God's word, then we have a good way to try to reason with them by the word of God.
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But if someone just has a dream or a vision, that doesn't mean anything, bro.
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Yeah, I mean, we set it aside to entertain feelings and people's experience and we become those psychoanalysts as opposed to just using the word.
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I mean, my experience, I felt like a girl all my life and I knew when I turned, and then we try to go into these feelings as opposed to just going back to know in the beginning God and trust the spirit of God.
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We become psychoanalysts and we can seek ground in that way.
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Again, that's such a good point because as it does relate to a lot of those things that you just mentioned today, this whole idea of experience becomes the standard of thought.
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In other words, if I feel like I'm a girl, that's my experience.
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And you can't tell me I'm not.
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But the truth is, you're not a man.
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You're a girl.
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Or you're not a girl.
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You're a man.
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Whatever way.
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So yeah, emotions, listen, emotions are great.
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But emotions by themselves will run off the track very easily.
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How many of us would agree that making decisions merely by emotions is a very dangerous thing to do? Right? I think for the Christian, it's a foolish thing to do.
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In that sense, yeah, I agree with that.
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I would say, I would even broaden it out and say for anybody to just merely act upon emotion is a crazy thing to do.
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I know this doesn't relate to it.
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I read a story, I don't know who this guy was, some singer or something like that.
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He said he got stoned and he bought a tugboat for $280,000 and he regretted his experience.
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And I would say, man, I would regret that experience too, buddy.
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But again, experience in and of itself can be very dangerous.
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Nevertheless, as we look at this, and I want to try to finish this whole idea of the dream as he talks about it, he then says and he only understands in part, look at it back in Job chapter 4, he says the spirit passed before my face and the hair of my body stood up and he said I couldn't discern its appearance and a form was before my eyes.
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He doesn't really say that he fully understands even this dream and vision that he has.
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But again, he's going to use it against Job and then he says, in verse 17, can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his maker? If he puts no trust in his servants, he charges angels with error.
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How much more those who dwell in houses of clay whose foundation is in the dust? Is that a true statement, by the way? Can we say that what he says there, that can a mortal be more righteous than God? No.
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I would hope we would all agree to that.
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Can a man be more pure than his maker? No.
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He puts no trust in his servants.
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If he charges his angels with error, how much more those that dwell in the houses of clay? So, there's a reality in this vision that he has.
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There's some truth that's revealed, isn't there? Now, whether or not, in that sense, this was something new in his mind, I don't think so.
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But, nevertheless, again, to go back to this whole idea of anything outside of the revealed will of God that you and I have, even truths, at times, can be used in a wrong way.
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Would you agree with that? Would you agree that truth, although it's true, and what's the definition of truth? Truth is always true.
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That's what, that's the way you define truth.
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But can we, at times, use truth in a wrong way? A mix of truths and error and dreams and visions and the charismatic movement also is on emotions and dreams and visions and all these types of things.
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And there are components of truth within their teachings, their doctrines, their principles, what they hold to.
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So, again, the reality would be if something is truly from God, it must be true all the way.
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Right? Again, if they have a vision and it doesn't come to pass, then it didn't come from God.
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So, when you think about it, as he said this, he's right.
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Can a man be more righteous than God? My point is, he's still going to use this to try to come after Job.
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Because, basically, what he's saying, Job, is you're getting what you deserve.
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And you ought to stop complaining about it.
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As I said, I don't think he's the greatest of comforters.
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I'm going to ask you a question because we only got a couple minutes left.
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When he says this in verse 18, he puts no trust in his servants, and if he charges his angels with error, how much more those who dwell in houses of clay? What's your thoughts about verse 18? He charges his angels with error.
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You think that Eliphaz has some understanding of the activity that takes place in the angelic realm? You know what I'm saying? It seems like he's extolling angels above men, in a sense to where if God will judge angels, how much more will he judge you, as if God loved angels more than you love? Okay.
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Yeah, and the reality is, does God judge angels? Absolutely, doesn't he? Is this, in some ways, something that relates to this whole idea of the what we saw in the opening chapter and then even in the second chapter where the angels came and presented themselves before the Lord? Is this a way of explaining to us this realm of the good angels and the bad angels? And that even the good angels, ultimately what? They're not God.
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They are creative beings and the scriptures talk to us about how they are, at times, more powerful, but they're not the crown of God's creation, are they? Who's the crown of God's creation? We are, right? So when you think about it, and as he's using these things to kind of apply a hammer to Job, if you think about it, and again, in verse 19 where it says that, how much more those who dwell in houses of clay whose foundation is in the dust, who are crushed before a moth.
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I looked up that word, moth, and it really means worm, by the way.
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And I began to think about that, that God uses some interesting things as it pertains to how he works with men.
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I thought about the worm, by the way.
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Worm is pretty significant in the Bible.
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Remember the worm who smoked the gourd that was covering who? Jonah.
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Remember the worm that smoked the gourd that was covering the shade, who was giving shade to Elijah? And that God uses even worms.
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Hey, guess what? Everybody is food for worms.
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And so you think about that, and what he's saying, there's a lot of truth in what he's saying, that we're broken in pieces from morning till evening, and they perish forever with no one regarding, and does not their own excellence go away, they die even without wisdom.
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So there's a reality that Eliphaz's vision has a certain amount of truth in it, but again, I don't believe he's using his vision in a correct way.
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I'm not saying he doesn't have this vision, but again, he is applying that to Job to try to reinforce what he has said previous to that, where he told Job that basically whoever perish being innocent, you're basically going to get what you deserve.
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I'll just end it with this, because this was something that I picked up on.
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I wanted to think about it, because of what it says in verse 20, 21.
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They're broken in pieces from morning till evening, they perish forever with no one regarding, and does not their own excellence go away, they die even without wisdom.
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And I wanted to look, and so I looked up how many people, and maybe this is an astounding figure to you, in 2022, last year, there were 133 million people born.
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133 million people, at least from what they recorded, were born in 2022.
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And there were 67 million deaths in 2022.
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So basically what the article was trying to prove is there's more people alive, and at that rate, we just keep going up, up, up, up, up in population.
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But I broke that down, and it's basically 380,000 people a day are born.
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And 180,000 people a day die.
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And I thought about that in relationship of how we are really, friends, we're just vapor.
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I mean, in that sense.
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We are here today, and gone tomorrow.
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And we ought to really consider that in perspective of life.
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And the activity of God is so amazing, isn't it? That God is active in all of this.
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God's not passive, is He? He's absolutely by Him all things consist.
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That the activity of God throughout the whole Earth, that God is, because basically, as we affirm, if there's life in the womb, it's because God has done what? Created it.
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Now there's some that believe God just sets that principle in place, but I'm not one of those that believe that.
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I believe every time there's conception, it's God's work at that point.
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Right? And if you think about it, the activity of God, and I think this is one of the things that we're going to see as we go through the book, that God is using Job in a sense to exalt His dealings with man.
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And that God is not obligated to deal with one man this way and another man that way.
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That God could deal with anyone, any way He pleases to do at any time.
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And that you and I are not shielded from anything other than the fact that God is good, that God is right, and that God is for us.
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But as far as the dealings in this life, we ought never to wake up and just think, well, nothing can come upon me for I know the Lord.
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Because certainly that's not always true, is it? Again, many, many things.
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So, anyway, I wanted to just bring out a couple minutes of thought on the dreams and the visions, and we'll see it as we go through the book, because Job will even talk about certain things that has happened to him in his life, and then this whole idea of the dreams and the visions and the stirrings at night and different things.
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So everybody go home tonight and have a good dream.
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Just keep it to yourself.
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All right, let's pray.
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Father, again, thank you for timing your word.
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Lord, there are so many things, so many things that are so high and lofty, so many truths about you, Lord, that we just truly just understand so very little.
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And yet the very thing we do understand is that you love us, and that you are for us, and that you have redeemed us to yourself through Christ.
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And so, Lord, may we rest.
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May we never travel too far from the foot of the cross.
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May we rest there and find in Christ our all in all.
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Now bless our worship, bless our singing, bless our thoughts, bless our fellowship, and Lord, be glorified in all that's said and done today, in Jesus' name.
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Amen.