Dead Men Walking #135 Author Kerry Nietz: Writing science fiction as a Christian and Jimmy Fallon

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and All of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking, Starts Now. Well, hello everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. We appreciate you listening, telling a friend, sharing the podcast with a friend.

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Thanks so much, guys, for sponsoring the show. Now that we have the business out of the way, I'm excited about this one because we have a guest that is on that.

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We're going to be talking about something different. He is an award -winning author. He is a science fiction writer, has a bundle of books underneath his belt.

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We're going to get to that. He was also featured on Jimmy Fallon, and Jimmy had this to say about him. Listen to this. Oh, this book is

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Amish Vampires in Space. Do we need yet another

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Amish Vampires in Space book? Been there, done that. Bought the T -shirt. Oh, so the headline grabbed it.

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But yes, ladies and gentlemen, we have Kerry Neitz in the house today. How are you, Kerry? I'm great.

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Thank you. It's good to be here. Thanks. Yeah, so we have a common friend, and you were suggested for the podcast.

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And I said, yeah, we got to get this guy on because I remember that clip going viral quite a few years ago.

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And I think it was just a thing on Jimmy Fallon where it was like, it's a unique title, right? Amish Vampires in Space.

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And I think most of the reviews I've read on this too is it grabs people. I read one review which was extremely positive.

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And he goes, the only reason I picked it up was because of the cover and the name. And I like the genre, science fiction. So your branding on those series, because I think

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Amish Werewolves in Space you also have and a few others that we'll talk about. The branding is just genius. I absolutely love you taking those genres and putting them all together and doing it.

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But before we get into that, can you just give our listeners, I don't know, a couple minute bio on a little bit about you, what you do and kind of how you got in writing?

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Sure. I'm Kerry Neitz. I've been actually a believer and also a science fiction fan since I was, you know, really young, like eight, maybe.

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And, you know, and just grew up reading it and watching it. And that was just kind of fun for me.

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So I worked at Microsoft for a number of years as well. I actually went to college for computer science.

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So I kind of have that technical background, you know, science fiction kind of coming alive there.

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And just always wanted to write, though. So I would be scribbling things, you know, sort of on the side.

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And when the opportunity presented itself, I sort of took advantage of it and started writing. So I have a dozen novels now,

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I think, and a nonfiction book and some short stories and even some entries in some devotional and whatnot as well.

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So, yeah, over a million words in print, I guess. Yeah. Where can people find those works?

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Do you have a website or do they just go to Amazon or where do you want them to go? Sure. They're all on Amazon and other booksellers online.

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But Neats .com is my website. So that's pretty easy to remember. N -I -E -T -Z .com.

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Okay. Or search for Amish Vampire's Space. You'll find me.

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Oh, there's more than enough hits on Google if you type that in. Absolutely. So are you doing that full -time? Are you a full -time author?

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Yeah. I mean, I'm also a father and, you know, managing a house and stuff here. But that's sort of my main focus.

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Okay. So what gave you that idea? I know we're going to focus on the In Space for a couple of these.

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I know you've got some new stuff out, too, and we'll get to that. But, you know, as a believer and as a

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Christian, and this is a Christian podcast, so to speak. We have a biblical and reformed worldview.

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You see those titles, and the first thing I think is, you know, horror and sex and all these different things.

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And there's not really a space for a book that can mash up those types of genres and do it in a way that's honoring and interesting.

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But it seems like you have. So what gave you that idea, first and foremost, to write a series where all those type of genres are intertwined?

05:24

Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting story. My publisher at the time, back in 2013 -2014, he would go to all these writing conventions, and all the other publishers would be looking for Amish fiction.

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Because that's like, I don't know if most people know that in your listenership, but it's like a big niche, you know, and sells millions of copies a year.

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And he would be like the only speculative guy there, like the only guy looking for fantasy and science fiction.

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So he would jokingly say, you know, the only Amish I'm looking for is if it's something like Amish vampires in space.

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That was this joke title that he threw out. Well, time went by, and he sent out this mock cover to all the authors saying, you know, just, and it had, and it's actually, you can see it in my book.

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It's on the second or third page there. You know, I had a planet, and there's clearly Amish vampires in it, and there's a casket.

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And I kind of got laughing about it. I was like, you know, someone should write that book, because I think the title alone would intrigue people.

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You know, I don't know. It seems kind of campy. I don't know if I'm the guy to write it. And I was actually in the middle of writing another trilogy at the time.

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But I just thought it was a good idea. Yeah, and then I, you know, I don't know if it was, you know, waking up in the morning or early in the morning or, you know, bad breed or what.

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But I just, I just, I had this idea of how the

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Amish might get into space and become vampires and not have it be campy. And so I started writing on it.

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I got 30 ,000 words into it. It's like, yeah, this is kind of working. And so I sent him an email and told him, hey, guess what

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I'm doing. And then when he got done laughing, he said, okay, if it's any good, I'll publish it.

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So the final book, I think, was over 130 ,000 words. I had a lot more writing to do then.

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But, yeah, he liked it and published it, and sort of the rest is history at that point.

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Yeah, did it do pretty well? I know you have won other awards for other novels that you've written.

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Was it a pretty well -received book overall? It was. And, you know, the cover got, like, when the cover got released, that kind of blew up on social media.

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Just, you know, this kind of unusual thing. And then when the book itself released, yeah, it was mentioned by the

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Washington Post. Dave Barry, you know, kind of famous commentator, mentioned it. Publishers Weekly, Library Journal, a lot of places that had never been mentioned before.

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So it's definitely a very cool thing. And you mentioned the Jimmy Fallon thing. When that happened,

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I just started using Twitter a little bit. And it was so fun to just watch those words be said throughout the world.

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And it really was a worldwide thing. Like, I bet, you know, 12 different languages, seven different countries on one point.

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You know, it was just kind of incredible. Right. It's like, hey, don't tweet about it. Just go buy it.

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Help me out. Right, right. So, yeah, it's very cool. Yeah, no, absolutely.

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So, you know, the first thing I wanted to ask you, too, was, so is it just because you're interested in science fiction that you write science fiction?

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It sounds like you have some other genres that you delve into, too. But is it just an interest? Or are you trying to make any type of points within that genre?

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Because, you know, full disclosure, I haven't read the entire book. I read some excerpts. I've read some reviews of that particular one.

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And the common theme was, you know, you would think this was just pure fantasy. And as a science fiction geek,

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I'm more of the Star Trek guy than the Star Wars because Star Wars feels very, you know, fantasy to where Star Trek, you know, still still a type of fantasy.

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But you're explaining the science and you always have an explanation. You can't, you know, you're kind of limited to some type of physical world.

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And that was a common theme I saw where people said, you know, it wasn't so much fantasy, but this is more science fiction in the fact that there's explanations for things and it keeps it very real and true.

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Is that why you started in the genre just because it's interesting or you had something to say in that space?

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I definitely tend to lean in toward hard science fiction where, you know, use real science as much as you can.

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You know, that intrigues me. I'm from a science background. You know, I write it, you know, I write a lot of books that have like robots and coder types in it, you know, and to me, it's like, how would it really work?

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You know, I want to know how it would work. And a lot of times, the science would just present itself when

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I needed it to. It's sort of one of the miracles of writing, you know, you get into research and it's like, oh, yeah, okay, here's how vampires could work, you know, and so, yeah, it's definitely an interest.

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Science is an interest, but, you know, it's kind of a blessing as well, you know, so.

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Yeah, so a few years ago, too, you released the Amish Werewolves of Space, right? Right. And now is that in the same continuum?

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Yeah, there's actually three books. The second book was Amish Zombies. Oh, Amish, yep. And then

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Amish Werewolves of Space was the third one. And those came to be because I liked the characters so much, you know, and there was more to explore there as far as the science goes.

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And so I just wanted to know what happened to them. And I started writing it and, you know, got two books out of it.

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Yeah. Now, so, you know, when I see something like this, and I, like I said, see reviews and read excerpts, and you're keeping it interesting, and you're keeping it glorifying to God and clean,

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I find that to be a huge challenge. I'm a big stand -up comedy fan, and boy, do I love the stand -ups that can, they don't shortcut with vulgarness or a cuss word or, you know, violence over the top.

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You're Brian Regans, you're Jerry Seinfeld, you're Jim Gaffigan, these guys who know how to, you know, weave a story, not necessarily that they're trying to keep it clean or quote unquote

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Christian, but it seems like it's more of a challenge. Is it a challenge in writing to hold fast to your

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Christian virtues, but also write in a genre which is so full of sex and violence and all these different things that might not be glorifying to God?

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Yeah, I don't, I guess I don't find that part so much of a challenge because, again, you're kind of writing with a

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Christian heart, you know, you tend to kind of avoid those things when you write. And for me, like the story is what's intriguing about it.

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It's like, how do I make a fascinating story? How do I keep the mystery going? How do I, you know, and the characters sort of drag you along too.

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You know, yeah, many of them are kind of fallen and they have their own problems, but you don't have to be graphic on the problems, you know what

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I mean? And so, yeah, and another thing that's driving force for me is my dad reads everything

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I write. Right. And so, and I remember growing up and him getting books that he had read, and him having whited out some of the swear words, you know, and so I don't want him to have to white out my books.

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Right. I try to keep them as clean and while still hopefully constructing a fascinating story.

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Sure. And if you think even in the classic science fiction realm, Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov, those masters did not have to go into the woods as far as making a graphic, you know, they told good stories.

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And that would be my hope, you know, to be like that. So, yeah.

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I mean, it's a good goal to have. It's funny you say that, you know, I have a mother that listens to every podcast episode so I have to try to be as nice as possible.

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Yeah, I'll get a call or a message, you know, shouldn't be so mean to that person or judge that person so quickly.

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She keeps me on my toes so I get it. Do you ever get pushback within the Christian community because I grew up, you know, for the first seven, eight years in a very legalistic home to where it was you do not listen to rock music you do not read things about vampires and fantasy and werewolves and, and then the second half growing up went to an extremely

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Pentecostal to where it was like hey everything's almost permissible. I've landed somewhere in the middle where I believe the arts belong to us

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God created them for us. We glorify him with that. And I think we should have a lot of leeway within that as long as it's glorifying to him but do you ever get pushback within the

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Christian community when they might scoff and say oh vampire Oh geez a werewolf what are you know zombie.

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Yes, you know, how do you deal with that. Yes. Even actually from like my mother in law and she, she saw how much vampires.

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She was like how could vampires ever be, you know, how can I tell a Christian story and I said well

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I got to read the book, you know, I know what I wrote and I know why I wrote it, and and you know now her, her husband or they read everything

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I write to. So, yeah, yeah, it's you do get some of that and and not just me but kind of the community

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I'm a part of, you know, it is. It seems like many churches have gotten where arts is kind of a something they don't think about, you know, much, you know, side.

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And and I agree with you I think God gave us an imagination for a reason you know and and many things are very fantastical things in the

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Bible, you know, and, and that imagination that is there to help us visualize heaven and and what he's got going on and.

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So yeah, why shouldn't we be using them, you know, why shouldn't we, and and science fiction is such a great way to explore big themes you know it's done well you can you can really, you know, touch on some very interesting things that the

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Christians will appreciate too. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. That makes sense.

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No, absolutely. And I'm wondering if you agree with me on this when sometimes I feel like as believers, we focus too much on one particular thing we almost.

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We legalize that thing we sell a zombie or a werewolf or whatever it is right a robot with AI I oh my goodness, when in fact, you know

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I can enjoy art on the broad themes of what you're trying to, to, to tell your audience right

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I look at like a show like Breaking Bad for instance, right, a lot of little stuff in there that might not be, you know, quote unquote

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Christian but if you look at the overlying theme of that and how his pride ruined him. And I don't know if you're familiar with the show or not and then at the end admitting that and going oh it wasn't for my family was for me because I wanted the power right there's a very palatable and powerful theme in that that you can learn from.

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And I noticed in a lot of your books in the reviews I was reading people were saying the same thing they're like we actually appreciate that it just doesn't go right to a gore or violence or something but it holds true to the characters overarching worldview, like in the

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Amish series right. And it does it in a way that teaches the reader and really gets through to the reader so I'm wondering sometimes with that kind of criticism or pushback they're kind of missing the point of art isn't it to make us think and giving overarching things and I agree with you

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I think that I think that's true, you know, and and often yeah we kind of get locked up in our little box you know like church has to be like this and, and, you know, the art might be in the stained glass window.

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Well, I, you know, God's much bigger than that, you know, I think he gave us the abilities to, you know, use our art and creative instincts to reach the world.

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Yeah, absolutely. Let's shift gears here for a little bit. So, just because this is going to satisfy my interest and I know a lot of the listeners are either into books they read books they buy books of many have written books, the technical aspect of writing a book for you.

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Where does that start, does it start with the seed of an idea. Do you have to get so far along before you go oh this is going to be a novel this is going to be a book.

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And then once it gets there. What are the next steps are you, are you scratching stuff down or on in a journal or you in front of a computer to use a program like where does that where's that first couple months of the maturation of a book come from.

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Yeah, generally, writers break down into. They're either generally plotters or they're panthers you know or, or like I like to think of it as organic writers and I'm actually more organic writer, my writing process will usually start with just a few ideas you know or maybe a general theme, you know,

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I want to explore, and like my latest book for instance is a book called boss bits and it's kind of this robot buddy story.

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And it started just by me opening up in a cabinet one day and seeing all these kind of forgotten e readers and and PCs and thinking boy that's, that's kind of sad and these things have been a part of kids lives you know for years and gotten they've gotten much enjoyment from it.

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It's like, well, what if that happened to a robot he found him, he woke up after having been kind of discarded and decided to go look for his family, you know, and so, so I just kind of started with that idea and sort of follow the character where he went, you know, and, and the story happened from there, you know, and 80 ,000 words later you got a, you got a book.

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Oh, it's that easy huh just 80 ,000 words later. I mean kind of writing, writing is sort of a faith walk for me, you know, every, you sort of make a habit of it this is the time

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I write. And this is how many words I kind of give myself a word goal. You know, this is how many words

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I want to get done in a day, and, and then you sit down that same, same space that you always sit down in and start, you start writing you know it, it may not always be

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Shakespeare but, but a lot of times that first draft especially it's for getting the ideas out there and kind of exploring the world, and not making it perfect necessarily now when

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I go back then after I'm done with that first draft I'll let it sit for a couple weeks to a month, and, and then read it as a reader, and then, you know, and usually

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I print it out on paper, because I like to read it that way. And that draft will be, you know, it'll be redlined everywhere things

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I want to change move around, but, but you know that's that's the time for that that second draft that's when

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I'm making corrections and trying to fill. Now I know where the books going I'm, I'm filling in the empty spots and moving things around where they need to be.

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And then after that, I usually have a pretty solid second draft and then I'll send it on to somebody else.

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Yeah, like an editor or reader I trust or whatever. Yeah. So from the time of idea to first draft, what is that time span normally over the average time span over the 15 plus books that you've written about nine months, nine months.

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So it sounds like you're very habitual about that to same place same time kind of tell myself goal setting right this many words, and be dedicated to that.

20:50

Yep, yep, that's how that's how the magic happens. So, yeah, so we've we've covered a lot here but tell me a little bit more about this new book to just for the listeners if they're interested in finding any of your titles the last bit sounds very interesting

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I know you touched on it a little bit, but essentially discarded robot that in when it's so common right like you have that closet full of stuff, and in 50 years we'll probably have that closet full of robot personal assistance that hasn't been upgraded.

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Yes, you know, yeah, that's the premise and so he wakes up in a junkyard and doesn't really remember everything and, you know, obviously the systems aren't working like they used to and he sort of Okay, I, but I remember where they used to live and I remember what quote my daughter

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I used to take care of the girl I used to take care of and and so he goes, kind of looking for that family, and, and along the way, runs into, you know, a little bit late in the way in the grain of wisdom eyes to kind of runs into other discarded folk, and, and, and of course some, some bad, bad folk in there as well but but it basically builds this kind of buddy system of robots and and kind of goes looking for his family so we don't venture happens and good things and bad things and, you know, so kind of robot buddy adventure.

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Yeah. Yeah. And are these are these books, these type of books to are you think they're all age appropriate.

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I'm looking at some of these titles and I would like to get them even for my daughters who are 12 and 10 they do a lot of scholarly reading and historical for homeschool, but you got to throw in some fun ones every once in a while, and they consume them so quickly.

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Right. Even a series which I'm glad I encourage that I think, you know, we need to encourage the next generation to do more reading.

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But so something like that if listeners are listening to you think appropriate for all ages.

22:52

Yeah, I tend to, I tend to write for like 13 above, I think, I think, lost lost bits can actually skew a little younger, you know, because again it's all mechanical and, you know, all the, you know, there's not a heavy violence there's no real romance to speak of, you know, so it's, that one probably skews a little younger.

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I actually there's a traveling bookstore that I'm kind of associated with through a writer's conference that I went to and we go to lots of homeschooling conventions

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I'll, I'll meet them there and so what you're, what you're saying there about homeschooling

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I've seen it you know they'll buy like the stack of. Yeah, what do you got, you know, the right of know buy them all and read them all, you know, and, and often the kids will be back the next day to tell you how much they liked it you know so right.

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So, um, yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah I tend to like I said I tend to write clean fiction and, and.

23:47

Yeah. So, so you said something earlier here too as we wrap this up, that kind of struck a chord with me we are in a culture of just instant gratification and if you have a thought you put it out on Twitter you put it out on Facebook or Instagram.

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You said you write a draft, and then let it sit for two or three weeks. Yeah. And then, you know, that's nine months

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I just go, you know, in this culture where everything is instant and it kind of sucks us all in to to where we, we speak faster we say what we want right away we put it out on social media.

24:19

Do you ever find that a challenge to where you're very excited about some art that you're creating or something you're writing. And then you go,

24:26

I let it sit for two or three weeks. What's it doing on that mantle over there you're not showing it to anyone or you're just letting it ruminate or is that a challenge like this for all writers but for me

24:37

I have, I have to set it aside for a while otherwise I will just hate it. You know, I will hate everything about it, you know, and I don't want it to be that way, you know, so, because you're your worst critic right even right after the books produced,

24:52

I have a hard time sometimes going back and reading something that I wrote, you know, a year or two ago because you're always, you'll find the little things know.

25:00

So yeah I need that like I need that time to kind of step away from it. So, so it doesn't bother you then.

25:06

No, actually helps. Cool. So as we wrap this up, if we have any listeners out there that are authors or aspiring authors or want to write a book, what are some things that you might encourage them in or give them some advice.

25:21

First off, like, be persistent, you know, make it a habit, like, like I said before, you know, this is what

25:29

I'm going to write and carve out that time it's going to be writing time and just stick to it, you know, and, and don't expect every word to be perfect, you know, you're just, you're just, you're blazing a trail through it, what you're doing, and now it's a faith walk, like I said, just one one step at a time.

25:45

And, and I'd also encourage them to be involved in find that seek out a writing community that's the type of genre you like to write, and, and those people will be your best friends you know that they will encourage you and you can encourage them and grow and learn and, and you'll connect with people who do book covers and edit and all these tools that you will need down the road.

26:09

So, yeah, those would be my two biggest pieces of advice, I guess.

26:15

Awesome. Carrie thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today, throw out the social media links and the website again for the listeners if they want to check you out.

26:23

Sure. www .nitz .com needs calm.

26:29

I'm on Facebook, I'm on Twitter, and me we, and, you know, if you search for Amish vampires in space or find me.

26:39

So, yeah. Awesome. And guys, we'll make sure that we link this all up on the

26:44

YouTube page of social media and everywhere it goes out to get your podcast. Carrie once again thanks for taking time and being with us today telling us a little bit more about your journey very interesting.

26:54

Anytime you want to come back on the podcast or if you have something new out let us know you're more than welcome to be here yeah guys thanks so much for listening to another episode as always,

27:04

God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com.