Book of Titus - Ch. 1, v. 6b

All righty, let's see here y 'all can Go ahead and turn over to Titus chapter 1

We'll have to do a little bit or recap this morning because it's been about two months since I've been sitting in this chair

It has been an absolute blast getting to lead the youth Sunday school class over the past four weeks

I was supposed to do it one more time today, but Dave and Sam. Oh had a father -son trip so I'm covering for Dave and So he will be taking over the youth

Sunday school class when they get back for the next six weeks While I cover the adult class here.

It's great to be back Like I said, I love doing the youth But I also absolutely love doing this one and we're also right in the middle of a study

So it's a it's about time that we started making some progress there. So Tina and Devin we started a verse -by -verse study in the book of Titus Maybe I can't even remember at this point.

I want to say maybe May is when we started it And with me and Dave alternating and things like that.

We've been moving through it very slowly we are we left off in the middle of verse 6 the last time

I was I Was doing this class and so we'll be picking it up there today

But I am going to do a little bit of recap because it's been long enough to justify it

And so we'll pick it up at verse 1 here. Just a second It's also a very special day it's mine and Ashton's 11th anniversary

So that's fun. It's also fun that it fell on a Sunday because obviously Obviously it was on a

Sunday that we ran off and eloped while the rest of our family was gone and We drove three.

I know that I get my parents wonder why I give my hard time or not just my parents

But anyone for leave it it's because all the exciting stuff happens Why everyone's out of town?

That They were home. They were home by the time we got home, but they were they had gotten home from a business trip that day and drove home

From Dallas that day we got up. I don't even remember what time 5 a .m.

Maybe 6 a .m Drove three and a half hours to East Texas where her grandfather's churches and he was the one that married us that day.

But anyway 11 years it flew by that's for sure. I'm excited for the next 11

Alrighty Titus chapter 1 We'll just pick it up at verse 1 Paul a servant of God an apostle of Jesus Christ and an apostle of Jesus Christ According to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledging of the truth, which is after godliness

That's an amazing thing right there because Paul not only references God's Sovereignty and in divine election of his people, but he also points out the emphasis on evangelizing those people he says

According to the faith Of God's elect Paul understood that he was the instrument

He could be used as the very instrument for bringing God's people to a saving knowledge of him

And to the acknowledging of truth, which is after godliness. This is an important point Just to remind everyone on of course, we spent a good time on these verses a while back but acknowledging of the truth and godliness are what are

Two things that go together and they're inseparable You can't have a growing knowledge of the truth without a growth in godliness itself.

You could call that sanctification You could call that holiness. You could call that becoming consecrated a person that is becoming more like God each and every year

Of their lives. It doesn't mean we're perfect. It doesn't mean we're sinless Obviously not the sanctification process is just that it is a process as we live our lives we will experience turmoil tribulation times where we may fall into one sin or other and Feel burdened by that and then go to God in confession of it

That's the sanctification process. But the point being is that it is that move toward godliness is

Happening in tandem with the acknowledging of the truth. You can't have an acknowledgement of the truth unless you're moving toward godliness uh, there's no truth outside of the word of God and without the spirits teaching us and moving in us as we uh read it that You know, there's not going to be

Any acknowledging of it even uh any understanding of that truth. So godliness and the acknowledging of truth they are always

Moving in tandem verse two in hope of eternal life which god that cannot lie promised before the world

Began, of course There's a tremendous eternal security verse right there because this is a promise that was made between the father and the eternal son

Prior to the foundations of the world. We were already in existence in the mind of the father and a promise was made

That those people that didn't even exist yet would have the hope of eternal life someday They would have the hope of eternal life alongside jesus

Someday out into what we now call the future And this promise was made by a god as paul says that cannot lie.

This is a promise that can't be broken Verse three says but half in due times manifested his word through preaching

This is a wonderful thing this comes right back to again Paul's great emphasis on the fact that the word has to be preached the word has to be spread the gospel has to be

Given throughout the world because that is the mode that is the means by which god

Brings in the elect brings in his sheep Brings in his fold and so again paul understands this word is manifested through his preaching but also the preaching

Of others the preach the preaching of his successors as well titus being one of them

So his word is manifested Through preaching which is committed unto me That word committed could also be translated entrusted.

This is this is a a very Grave duty that has been entrusted to paul and entrusted to every minister of the gospel.

The word has been entrusted to him according to the commandment of god our savior

And then verse four says to titus. So here is the subject of our letter Here is the young man the young pastor that is as we are eventually going to learn on the island of crete amongst not only a multitude of very new believers believers that don't yet have a deep understanding

Of the whole council of god. They are believers They were saved on many of them were saved on the day of pentecost went back to the island of crete started planting churches

But they didn't have a lot of direction So they need titus to clean things up which we'll see in verse five in just a second in the face of that though is also a multitude of false teachers a multitude of Of false teachers that are going to be in combat with titus's authority and so one of the reasons we have this very

Sweeping introduction by paul here in the first four verses is because paul is establishing titus's authority for him for all

Before all of these false teachers that titus is going to be up against reading this letter aloud Of course to the believers

But no doubt those false teachers will be there as well to sit there and seeing how they can thwart titus's authority

Well, they know who paul is paul has been to crete before we learn that in the later chapters of acts

They know who paul is they know the kind of authority he has and he is imparting this authority to titus

And so that is why paul is being so meticulous in this introduction as we covered

Many weeks ago. So to titus in verse four mine own son after the common faith

We now know that titus was a convert of paul's paul considered titus his own son after the common faith, uh as if you know, paul is his spiritual father much like Philemon was anonymous was in our recent study of philemon

Titus was his son as well his spiritual son grace mercy and peace from God the father and the lord.

Jesus christ our savior. Of course, we discussed the significance in the fact then in verse three

Paul ends the verse by saying god our savior and then in verse four He ends it by saying the lord.

Jesus christ our savior. This is a testament to the deity of jesus christ This is a testament to the fact that jesus is god.

He's not just a messenger uh of god of the father rather god himself

And so then we get to verse five and this is where we start to get an idea of the purpose behind this letter

Leading into the qualifications of the elders of god's church. He says in verse five for this cause left

I thee in crete What is the purpose that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting?

And ordain elders in every city as I had appointed thee So we have believers we have churches

But there is a very important part missing from what's happening on the island of crete and that is

God ordained elders and or pastors or overseers or bishops.

These are all synonymous terms That need to be leading these young churches Leading them in doctrine and in truth.

And so paul says this is why I left you here titus I left you here so that you could set things in order things are chaotic right now.

There are believers here There's a lot to work with but it is chaotic. You need to set these things in order You need to straighten them out would be the the literal rendering of the the greek terms that paul is using here

You need to straighten things out And what's one of the ways you're going to do that? You're going to do that by ordaining elders in every city

So number one we realize that We know that crete was a city of uh, excuse me an island with a lot of cities.

Um Perhaps hundreds of cities on this island um this ancient island and Paul just casually mentions the fact that there's a church in all of them in all of these cities

There's a lot of work to do here Every single one of these churches in every single one of these cities needs an elder

And I want you to go ordain them just as I appointed you so we learn a lot right here just in the process

By which god works with his god -called men in order to discern and appoint the next generation of god -called men

Yes, it is a calling of the holy spirit We learn in acts chapter 20 verse 28 that the holy spirit is the one that calls and yet meaning

Calling the overseeing the the position of being an overseer or a pastor and yet paul here

Makes it very clear that titus is to go out and ordain and appoint these men

And so you have a two -fold action taking place. You have these men being called by the holy spirit

They have this calling that they are now to fulfill this role as a pastor in one of these local churches

But you also have the discernment of titus as a previously called man

As a previously ordained man to go out Find them and bring them in ordain them and prepare them for ministry.

So it's an amazing Dynamic you have going on here both god working as well as the men of god working all to accomplish the same

The same goal and and god himself leading all of it So now we find ourselves back at verse 6 where we left off last time and remember we're in the second half of verse 6

The first half begins if any be blameless We are now about to get the qualifications of these elders that titus is to appoint one last note really quick Yes, paul tells titus go find them

Ordain them and appoint them but he does not tell titus to do that without giving him

Something to work with some qualifications It can't just be any guy that you stumble upon it has they have to be men of character specifically men that fit these

Criteria number one if any be blameless the husband of one wife And that's where we stopped last time the word blameless there.

You could also translate that if any be unreproachable in other words

These are men that If a charge is made against them the charge is going to be unsuccessful

If uh, if the false teachers out there go and they start picking on this guy and start making up charges against him that would be disqualifying charges if they were real

The charges would fall flat. The charges would be unsuccessful. That's what paul means by blameless. He doesn't mean sinless obviously

But what he means is that these are men that don't have any habitual disqualifying sins

Anything that could bring reproach on their ministry on god's ministry on god's church

They're going to be blameless now That's kind of a general broad qualification there But paul gets way more specific as he goes on now and the first specific qualification

That sheds some light on what exactly he means by blameless or beyond reproach is they are to be

The husband of one wife now we broke that down. We spent at least a couple of sundays just on that phrase the literal greek

Meaning there is a one -woman man, so it doesn't necessarily mean that a man who was maybe

Married in his youth maybe even prior to salvation and it was It was a marriage that maybe shouldn't have happened in the first place

Perhaps it's among two unbelievers and they were immature They didn't know what was going on and they end up divorcing later on this man becomes converted spends a number of years growing in The word under the faithful ministry of another pastor perhaps and then he gets called

Well, then is he disqualified? Can he not can he not serve in the ministry because he is and then

At some point he marries a second time maybe post conversion and he and his wife now have a faithful marriage that's growing strong is he barred is he to be barred from the ministry because he

Is now the husband of a second wife. Well, that's not what paul means What paul means is a one -woman man.

In other words a faithful man to the wife that he has He is going to only have eyes for her.

He's going to be faithful for her to her If she were to pass away and he's no longer a married man at all.

Is he disqualified? No It's that he it all it all has to do with his character. It all has to do with his faithful Character toward his wife as a picture of christ and his church

And of course we spend a good deal of time talking about The seriousness of if disqualification is breached

In other words if a man is not faithful to his wife And of course, this is a an egregious sin.

That is a disqualifying sin and there can't be restoration for it. We we uh, Went through a number of passages in the old and the new testament for over the course of a couple of weeks substantiating that uh, sadly just since the the last time we did that particular study we

Had an exam and a recent example of a notable pastor in dallas that presumably fell because of of like sin and since then there has been yet another very very notable pastor with a global ministry that has undoubtedly fallen into that Sin of being unfaithful to his wife

The the details behind that story are devastating. It's someone that uh, That a lot of people around the entire world have looked up to for decades upon decades

And he fell into this sin. He was unfaithful to his wife. He is now Disqualified from all ministry for the rest of his life

And is of course a disgrace to the lord and uh his ministries As well, and so that is a very important qualification.

There's a reason that paul starts with that The husband of one wife a one -woman man faithful He has the character and the integrity to do everything that he can uh to ensure that that is a

Wonderful marriage as a representation Of christ and his bride. So now we find ourselves the last half of verse six and this is where we will

Continue on with our study. It says I'll just read the whole verse together. If any if any be blameless the husband of one wife

Having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly So this is the next important phrase that we're going to need to hone in on for a little while Yet another very important qualification

If you were to break down the qualifications that paul gives in the verses five through nine of this first chapter

You could break them down into a few categories We covered these categories a number of weeks ago.

The first category was having to do with the sexual morality of elders Husband of one wife one woman man.

He is he is faithful to her that that is his moral Character the second category which we will now begin to cover is family leadership.

And so Here's broadly speaking. What is the family leadership of an elder look like? What is it supposed to look like in order for him to qualify?

for the ministry Having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly now

This is a really loaded phrase that we have here from the apostle paul Uh, i've recently heard this particular qualification uh referred to as the neglected qualification and uh

As I began to think about that a little bit it started to really lock in things for me because what is the common?

kind of cliche As it relates to the pastor's kids. Well, I just said it they're the pastor's kids um there's been this uh this proverbial uh

Outlook on the quote -unquote pastor's kids for decades and it's not a good one so When you think about that and you think about the kind of cutesy, uh

Nature behind it and that people kind of chuckle at it and you know act like oh, yeah pastor's kids

It's just uh, it's just the way it is Well, there you go the neglected qualification now we can see why this is uh such a rampant issue

Uh, certainly throughout churches in america, perhaps throughout the rest of the world as well This was an issue if you read the puritans if you read the reformers if you read even uh, wonderful men of god post the puritan age

We're talking, you know, jonathan edwards All the way up through spurgeon whitfield jonathan edwards whitfield wesley all the way up through spurgeon

And then even into the 20th century with a lot of the reconstructionist ministers bb warfield uh machen all of the princeton guys

These all you can just sweep throughout all of recent church history and you will not find this to be a neglected qualification you will find

Pages in pages in chapters and chapters on the importance of fatherhood

As the minister so it's not until you get into contemporary u .s u .s american history church history where you find this cliche of the pastor's kids and Uh, that's just how it is because for whatever reason, you know, oh look there's another pastor with bad kids

There's another one with bad kids. I guess that's just how it works for some reason well The reason it's like that is because this has been a neglected qualification the spiritual state of the preacher's kids

Again has been notorious for decades and not in a good way So good true leadership in general

Can be summarized by prominent attributes The prominent attributes of the person in the leadership position because what is a pastor?

It is a person in a very specific kind of leadership position. So how do you mark?

the character Of a good leader. How do you where where are the? How do you base?

A good leader. What do you base a good leader upon by what standard is a person a good leader?

Well again the prominent attributes of the person should come to mind character good character maturity integrity

Godliness and righteousness these attributes set a pattern for others to follow That's the kind of person that others want to emulate want to copy want to imitate if you want to find a man to be a true leader

One that has these particular attributes Look no further than how the man handles fatherhood

If he is falling short there you cannot expect for him to bring anything good over into such a position as Leading the household of god

It doesn't matter how you spin it now. We're going to talk about a number of Hypotheticals as we go out as we go throughout this particular

Section because it is a little bit different than the previous qualification. We talked about one woman man faithful to his wife

That's about as cut cut and dry as it gets about as black and white as it gets But man over the course of decades with a man

And however many kids he has in their Lifestyles and the way they live out their lives.

This is a very dynamic issue In a number of ways. We still have clear instruction.

I'm not trying to insert any ambiguity here, but uh Point being is we're going to talk about a number of factors that come into play

With the importance the implication of this but just as the groundwork here This is the bedrock of everything we're going to be talking about in general um

When you want to find a good leader look and see how that leader follows Excuse me.

Look and see how that leader handles fatherhood Because there is the basis by which he will be

A leader in every other area of life. That's why paul is bringing this into this particular context

In fact, it was in the context of paul's own leadership. Think about paul as the apostle the preeminent apostle whose leadership was

Exemplary whose leadership was the kind of guy that made everyone want to follow him uh full stop

In the context of his own leadership in his own leadership style He uses the analogy of parenthood to describe the way that he has led if you want to turn to first thessalonians for a second

Turn to first thessalonians chapter 2 He uses this analogy to describe his leadership style

He compares himself As we will see in just a second to godly parents and that's not an accident.

That's not a coincidence This isn't paul just uh, you know reaching into the air for what analogy he could use to describe his leadership style

This is very this is a very intentional Analogy that he uses first thessalonians chapter 2.

What is a parent? What is a godly parent? What are their attributes tender? being tender loving being sacrificial

Setting the proper model for living teaching the morals of god These are the types of things that a godly parent does lo and behold a godly parent is what paul has in view

When he is thinking about the way he wants to conduct his own Ministry paul lived a life that others wanted to copy

Just like a godly parent lives a life that their kid should want to copy um

So first thessalonians chapter 2 I forgot that I needed to be turning there myself

And uh, we have a very interesting thing I think we're going to be starting somewhere around verse 7

Verse 7 Let's see here Come on Colossians versus thessalonians.

There we go. All right. Yeah, let's start at verse 7 and just look at look at this analogy that paul uses and And and the implications of it

He says but we were gentle among you. He's talking about himself, but he's also talking about some of his other co -laborers

We were gentle among you even as a nurse cherish cherish it cherish if her children now uh

The he's talking about a nursing mother specifically not A nurse the way we would think of it.

He's thinking about a mother who is in the process of nursing she's in that phase of of uh

Her child is in that particular phase of childhood still a nursing A nursing child and just as a mother a nursing mother

Cherishes as a man Cherisheth her children so being affectionately desirous of you

We were willing to have imparted unto you not the gospel of god only but also our own souls because you were dear unto us so the

These people that paul is talking about they are dear to his heart in the way that a child is dear to a nursing mother

For you remember brethren our labor and travail Think about the analogy that he's bringing into this here.

And this isn't the only place by the way that god, excuse me that paul uses the picture of a travailing mother to describe his labors

For his people bringing them to a knowledge of saving faith as if it's a mother travailing in childbirth for laboring night and day because We would not be chargeable unto any of you we preached unto you the gospel of god

Ye are witnesses and god also You know, here's a good one how wholly

And justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe

And ye know that we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you as a father doth his children

So now we have paul not only talking about him acting in the sense of a nursing mother

But also in the sense of a loving father And then look at verse 12 that ye would walk worthy of god

Who hath called you into his kingdom? and into his glory So verse 7 mentions a nursing mother verse 11 mentions a loving father

Paul uses parents as the prime example of what servant leadership should look like.

What do I mean by servant leadership? Well, i'm talking about what jesus talked about In matthew, I think it was chapter 17 or thereabouts where he is talking about the the greater being

The lesser being the greater in heaven and vice versa and he kind of describes How a true leader should act

Having a servant's heart and so Parenthood is the prime example of that Paul uses parenthood to call into everyone's mind what it should look like so that they can now realize

Oh, this is what paul is doing. Oh, this is how paul Is trying to act he's trying to act as a loving father.

He's trying to act with the nourishment of a nursing mother There's no better way to demonstrate what proper ministry should look like Than the well -ordered home and that's why paul uses this analogy of parents very intentionally again

He's not grasping for an analogy to use he uses this analogy because he knows what it means to his hearers

So if you're to be a leader or It just put another way if you are to be the father quote unquote

Of the household of god as a pastor Then what better way to prove that you are fit?

For that role than to look at the most intimate relationships in that man's life and see if he can be a leader there

If you're ever curious about whether or not a man is fit for the role of leading the household of god

No one knows him better than his wife and kids So ask them See see what their relationship is with him.

See what he is like at home when the church isn't around Look no further than the home is the prime proving ground for whether or not a man is qualified for the ministry

Now it's also worth noting briefly before we start talking about the implications of all of this

That the context of paul bringing kids into the list of qualifications Flows directly after he uses that general statement at the beginning of verse 6 if any be blameless

Immediately after that is when the kids enter the picture So therefore the elder needs to have kids that are not rebellious

Because otherwise they may become a reproach on him in his ministry. How is he to be above reproach?

If he puts himself in a situation Because of bad parenting being a bad father that his kids later on bring a bad reproach on him in his ministry

That again is no accident that this flows directly from If any be blameless if any be above reproach now

Now keep it, you know keep in mind as we progress through this study that idea

Uh that children can come into play with regard to the being blameless being above reproach

Keep that in mind because there's a lot to be considered here But again, this kind of plays into the bedrock of of paul's main

Thrust in this whole passage Now the majority of the christian world they have all kinds of workarounds and explanations for this verse uh

I don't think i've ever read more material Uh on any bible study i've ever done

More than for this one phrase of this one verse um and it's really interesting to again hear what the

Puritans and the reformers and the great men of the 17th and 18th centuries had to say about fatherhood and The the again the great men at the turn of the 20th century

Arthur pink bb warfield machen Uh the hodges all of these wonderful men

And then also in parallel to all of that read what? a lot of contemporary people have to say

About this particular verse and again the workarounds they have for why a man who has terrible kids because of his parenting style

How you know there that that could be something that we can kind of glaze over and turn

Uh, you know kind of turn our gaze away from uh for lack of a better term

Meanwhile, so you have people that kind of have this again neglect toward this qualification the neglected qualification

You have this dynamic over here, but at the same time you have more of a minority of people that read this

And they want it to mean exactly what it appears to mean in other words, they take paul's words face value and they apply it but There can be another issue here and it's the same issue that we ran into with our previous qualification one woman man

We actually talked through a number of what you might call rigid interpretations of that for example

Well a man can't be a pastor if he's not married at all or a man can't be a pastor if he maybe was

Divorced in his youth because of an unwise marriage prior to salvation And even though he has since been saved since been married for 20 years

Since has ordered his household. Well You know husband one wife So we talked about how you can have these kind of legalistic rigid interpretations of these qualifications

Without any room for discernment of the men of god in the local church Which by the way is one of the most important reasons why we have the local church and why there isn't a singular universal body like the catholics want to believe that there is

And so the reason is because god wants each of his local bodies to be working through these issues

And relying on him for guidance in them. So just like we had to Talk through that aspect of in the previous qualification even here

There are some interpretations That may be unintentionally Too rigid

In a particular area and we have to discuss that as well. So we want to avoid both extremes

We do not want to neglect this qualification all the same time We don't want to quench the spirit in allowing him to work in a particular way in a particular

Local church we have to be aware of both extremes. We want to avoid both of them as we move through this

But there's something that needs to be said from the onset As we run low on time here

And that is that these words have to mean something What paul says has to mean something it has to believe it has to be applicable sometime

They're not just Arbitrary words that he was filling the page with They mean something and they mean something important And so it's always important for us to remember that a good starting point is to read the bible plainly

Let the spirit be our teacher and also take into account the rest of the

Biblical narrative along the way as well. Let the bible interpret the bible But reading it plainly is a good place to start don't make excuses for ministry or for ministers that you like Which can't be justified by these clear words of paul

We have to avoid both sides of the road. We have to avoid both ditches You don't want to get too rigid in any interpretation

And again quench the spirit you also can't neglect The words of paul either and say well, he just didn't understand some of the modern inconveniences that we have

He didn't know what we would be dealing with in the 21st century and therefore We have some room to work with here.

You have to avoid both sides of the road So with that being said does anyone have any thoughts or questions so far because we're running kind of low on time

We only have about five minutes left If not, I can press on a little bit further, but if y 'all have thoughts, please share I find it fascinating that we talked about the exceptions when it's paul who's neither married or has kids

Right delivering this message. Sure. So obviously there are exceptions Well, this goes right back to the previous qualification one woman man by the rigid interpretation of that Paul would not have been qualified to be a pastor because he was celibate.

He was a celibate Elder, uh, of course we talked about brother bill in that context there have no doubt been a number of Wonderful ministers in times past that met met the qualifications based on paul's intention

Character faithfulness that sort of thing But to your point paul also didn't have any kids by virtue of the fact that he wasn't married and yet you have paul

Interestingly is the one that delivered the most material we have on how to be a good father. Isn't that amazing?

It's a testament to the sufficiency of scripture first and foremost and it is also a great testament that it does not require

For you to have perfect parents in order to know how to live a godly life Later, so in other words if you grew up in a less than ideal home

And your parents failed the statutes the precepts the instructions that god gave for being good parents.

And so you feel now that because of that I Uh, you know i'm at a disadvantage well number one two things can be true at once You can be in a disadvantage.

I will not I will not Make the claim that You can give or take having good parents absolutely not you

Parents are held to such high standards and are responsible for so much because of what it means for Their sheep for what it means to be the stewards of these little ones that god ordained for them to be a part of your

Family, and so if you screw that up Absolutely, the kids will be left at a disadvantage, but two things can be true at once that can be true while at the same time

You can overcome it God's word is sufficient Christ himself is sufficient.

We have all the instructions We need to be a good son to be a good daughter to be a good husband be a good wife um, and so You know, you you might be a person that feels self -conscious

About being a spouse or being a parent because the models that you had growing up were far from ideal

But you don't you don't necessarily need them even though it does put you in a tough spot

No doubt you don't necessarily need them to know what it is to be a biblical husband wife daughter son

Whatever it may be because the bible lays it all out And back to the original point paul interestingly enough was the one that gave us so much of those instruction as a celibate

Minister that didn't have a wife that didn't have kids But he could still understand what it was to be those things because it's revelation directly from god

I could also point out There is a point in your life that has changed

Let's take a look at paul's life. He was not what we'd call a godly man who was soft Went until he got knocked off his horse

Started to look in the right direction. Yeah, and yet he wasn't disqualified even though the sentence that he had already

This is an excellent point pop pop and brian christopher has been waiting patiently for For me to answer a question that he asked probably two and a half months ago

And i've been sitting on it brian. I literally have it in my notes somewhere I copied and pasted it so I didn't forget the way that you asked it, but it was basically

Asking the question Uh with what you just said in view What you know, what do these how do these qualifications come into play?

based on the retrospect view Maybe even prior to conversion of the band that is now called well

So you're you're covering that for me a little bit pop pop and I will revisit this when we're done with the qualifications

The reason brian that I haven't answered the question just yet is because I wanted to get all of the qualifications under our belt

Which will happen eventually and then again take that Ask those types of questions like what does this mean?

For the man that maybe wasn't converted until he was 30 And lived a riot his life up before then but has since lived an exemplary life

Well, the apostle paul is a tremendous example of that in pop pop's point He was not disqualified as a as a servant of god also as an apostle also as a pastor as a missionary because um of the fact that he was redeemed from the sins that he

Number first and foremost he was redeemed from the sins that he committed prior to his conversion experience And secondly because he was converted and he began living a sanctified life um

He met all of the qualifications post conversion. There are some examples where a man becomes disqualified after being converted which

In my opinion just to kind of jump to the chase a little bit is what paul has

In mind what his intention is as he goes through these qualifications is what does the man look like?

Since he has come to a saving knowledge of the lord jesus christ There are some that disqualify themselves even after that remember we're not perfect We're not dealing with perfection here.

Even even those that meet the qualifications are not perfect, but there are higher standards

Set for the shepherds of god's church and that is by design. They are meant to be a type of the true shepherd

And so because of that the standards are higher than any other say let's talk about only saved people

The standards are higher than any other man uh In the the body of christ.

Yes, ma 'am We have a pastor who have a wayward son Right who was outside the home already these principles only apply to children who are still in the home

Well, perhaps and obviously I mean we're just now cracking the surface here. Uh, I got a page and a half into Many many pages on this particular topic again

There are there is room there needs to be room for discernment In each and every local body, so I would

I won't even speak Uh, you know, we here at park meadows church wouldn't even speak to what that church

Felt was appropriate for that particular uh pastor I will say this

I My inclination is I would agree with you that um You know, let's take a pastor

Who has a bunch of kids and he's raising them and he's raising them faithfully Uh, and he is fulfilling his responsibility as a dad.

All right So he is raising them in the admonition of the lord. He is raising them in the word.

He has them in church He is protecting them from the influence of the secular world around them to the best of his ability

He's doing all these things. He prays with them every day. He evangelizes them for 18 years in his home and While they're in his home.

They all are living up to the standard of a well -ordered home And then fast forward a few decades and perhaps one of them becomes wayward um

My my inclination is yes that the the pastor the elder has done his duty and that that child eventually

Is responsible for his uh receiving Of what was being given to him by the father

There are a number of ministers that I can give you all examples of right now I I can think of a couple right off the bat

That fit the bill that you just described very notable pastors that everyone in here would know and respect and admire

Who had some kids in adulthood? Turned wayward. It's a very interesting

Thing when you talk about that Again, we will talk about that even more Let me give you all one last thought because it touches on what mimi is pointing out here

One last thought we'll have to end it for now. We'll pick this up next week When we think about these qualifications, what is the context?

In which we are receiving these qualifications think about it for just a second Are we talking about ministers that have been ministers for 30 years?

Or are we talking about the appointing of ministerial candidates? In other words, who is titus going after he's not going after people that are already elders

He is specific paul is specifically telling him to go find these guys that meet these qualifications prior to their ordination and so If you want to talk about context being the drive train here

And that being the kind of the first and foremost consideration The immediate context is that paul is talking about the pastoral candidates meeting these qualifications prior to ordination prior to eldership

And i'm just going to say right off the bat. You've heard me Appeal to discernment a couple of times here and there's a reason for that We don't have any express scripture.

I believe that we can we can get some implication. I believe we can infer But we don't have any express

Text like we have here For what to do when a pastor has been a faithful minister for 45 years

And his 55 year old son all of a sudden Messes up and is in jail

We simply don't have the express word for word instruction on what to do there, which is why

It comes back to spirit -led discernment starting with the word And making inferences where you need to from the word.

You still want to be as scriptural as possible But just remember how important this is the immediate context of these qualifications are for the pastoral

Candidates if you have a pastoral candidate with a wayward son That is a little bit different than to have a 30 year old 30 year veteran minister who has a 45 year old son

Who is wayward? It is apples and oranges as far as I can tell

Um, but we're going to be talking about this more I know this leaves a lot of unanswered territory a lot of unanswered questions perhaps

Again, we're going to be talking about some hypotheticals here And the reason is important because how many times has dad said the reason why america is in the state that is in starts at?

the pulpit It couldn't be truer and perhaps

Right alongside that statement. You could also make the statement that that the country is in the state that it's in Because of the state of the homes of the men behind the pulpit

Both both can go together. And so this is a very important topic even as dynamic as it is.

Yes, sir Did you have a thought? Okay What is When the bible doesn't give specific instructions on something that has to do with church

Government Then I think god is leading it up to the local church to decide their rule for such a thing

And besides that you can't determine which of your kids are elect Versus not elect and if they're not elect

Once they leave your home and your strict rules They can end up doing anything

And that should not disqualify Someone who's called a priest. Well, first of all me and ash literally talked about the same topic

A good while yesterday and she made the same point that you just did with regard to election I mean you have you have very serious theological implications if you extrapolate

It out into the 30 30 40 50 year past pastorate

From the qualifications given to the pastoral candidate. They're they're again very interesting theological ideas at stake there

The doctrine of election being one of them that we we would affirm here And so many other churches would that the salvation of any person is a

Gift that flows directly from god and it has nothing to do with progeny So election is not by saved people having saved people having saved people.

This is what he means by him being the god of Excuse me.

The savior of all men is that you don't have to worry about there being a particular perfect Generation You know from one family line

No, it is he he calls men from every race from every family so on and so forth.

So I had another thought that alluded it's elusive now and then the first point you made

But I agree with that the first point you made though was uh Darn it.

You made two points. What was the first one? Oh, yes that right there

Super important and I feel like this particular context of scripture and we'll get it again

Or in first timothy chapter three is one of the greatest proofs of the local church and why it's here

Why god ordained it that way don't you ever think it's kind of weird that there are local churches? And that god didn't just make it one church where there's total unity around the whole globe

Well, guess what? We're a fallen race. We're depraved even after we're saved We have that old man that we're dragging around all the time and he knew

God knew in his forward nation in his foreknowledge that if there was an established universal body

Such as the roman catholic church that that would be exploited And that there you would have dogmas come out from rome that affect every other catholic person in the whole world that are totally

Contrived and so he ordained the local church to protect us from that. He ordained the local church to protect us

From perhaps another local church deeming more strict rigid Interpretations of this passage that that keep us from having to follow suit with with their interpretation and vice versa, too

They have their prerogative To to rule their local church the way they do we have ours.

Yes Like the the historical context when this was written and think about some of the people that have grown up with these

Really weird pagan worship styles that you don't know what i'm talking about the things that they would all go do

And worship like it would be real hard to find you know a qualified elder in some of these scenarios

And I know that the lord provided But think about I don't know. I'm just thinking about titus and Just the context he's getting

It is hard he was He was living titus was living on a very pagan island

And yes, there were saved people, but they had only been saved for a little bit. The church was just born And so think about his job with these qualifications

Finding men that fit this bill on a pay on what was previously a totally pagan island hard in our generation because of the internet and stuff

Yeah, their society was Really screwed up, right? Yeah, and and that is a great fact geographical in in in historical context is very key here in in Conjunction with the fact again, he's talking about pastoral candidates

Above anything else. Yes, he was given these very specific Standards because of the the responsibility that came with this role and you might think well then it's impossible

No one can live up to these standards. Well, no because god is great is gracious. Uh, it's all grace including

Men that are able to meet these qualifications think about that for a second Based on just human capability alone.

It would be impossible for any pastor to ever meet any of these qualifications ever The only reason any pastor could ever meet any of these qualifications let alone all of them simultaneously

Is by the grace of the lord and that only so we'll end it there for today because we're past time But we have lots more to talk about we'll continue with this study next week pop pop.

Would you mind dismissing this, please? Good heavenly father lord. We just thank you Giving us your word that brought us here

To discuss it learn from it Be guided by it lord.

We just ask that you put your word in our hearts Thank you for ben's willingness to bring it to us.

We thank you Share it with us. Thank you What we do in our lives what we just ask to be with us as we go into our service