February 20, 2020 Show with Conference Interviews featuring Dawain Atkinson, John Crotts, Kofi Adu-Boahen, and Austin Huggins

Iron Sharpens Iron

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida Champaign County, Illinois and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming to iron sharpens iron radio .com

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My name is Eric Nielsen and I'm sitting in today for Chris Arnzen Today is day six of our series of interviews from the recent g3 conference

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G3 2020 and today we have not one not two not three, but four interviews

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So we're going to hit the ground running Our first interview will be with Dwayne Atkinson from the bar podcast and the bar podcast network

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That will be followed by an interview with pastor John Kratz of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia And then we'll have our annual visit from Kofi Bojen of Grace Community Church of the

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Rogue Valley in Medford, Oregon And finally, we'll round out the show with pastor

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Austin Huggins of Christ Evangelical Christian Fellowship in Milton, Florida There's a lot of ground to cover today.

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So let's get started here. I am once again at the g3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia at the

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Georgia International Convention Center And I am thrilled to have back on the program for an on -site interview

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Dwayne Atkinson founder of the bar podcast and There are two things you should know right away the bar podcast has nothing to do with alcohol consumption and The acronym bar does not stand for black and reformed even though I guess

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Dwayne Atkinson Is both of those? Well, wait, wait, wait. I'm not at the bar though.

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You said both What do you mean you said the bar don't stands for alcohol I don't have alcohol can't be both.

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I could either be know what I mean is you're both black and reformed. Okay Even though the bar doesn't stand the acronym does not stand for black.

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Got it form. Got it It is biblical and reform awesome because obviously your average white dude like me

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Is going to automatically think that if a black brother is reformed

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His ministry has to automatically mean something predominantly about his blackness

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But anyway brother it's great to have you back on the program and why don't you tell our listeners

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Something about the bar who are unfamiliar with you. Awesome. Well first, thank you for having me back definitely

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Privilege and honor for those that don't know about the bar. The bar podcast is pretty much a 30 -minute really casual conversation with guests.

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I do guests every week every Tuesday We have a new guest a lot like iron sharpens iron. We really try to seek out unique personalities and gifts to the body of Christ and just bring you a really laid -back conversation every week and you'd like to ask questions of Your guests that normally you might not even hear correct asked during a

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Christian interview that that don't even necessarily have anything to do with The church or the faith just you know, the common things that people might enjoy in life

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Exactly that we are all given liberty to you to enjoy that don't necessarily have anything directly connected to theology or right, right?

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Because that's that's a conversation. You rarely hear a lot of times. We see those guys on platforms You know, we're very formal in interviews.

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So I like to kind of play on the more Human side, you know anytime you can get, you know on Lincoln Duncan talking about Motown Or you could get al

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Mola talking about bass fishing, you know, that's just that's something you just want normally here. Yeah, so Being here at the g3 conference

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Which I know that you share my enthusiasm over this it's a monumental event. What can you share with our listeners about?

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Some of the folks you've met and perhaps experiences that you've enjoyed. Well at the 2020 g3 conference so first of all, man g3 to me is

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It's like a class reunion slash family reunion. Yeah Really? It really feels like home

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It really feels like a place where you see all the friends you see online You finally get to see them back in person.

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So that that's the number one thing. I love about g3 also Being able to for me being able to not only connect with people that are listening to the show

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But also introduce people to the show Because a lot of people kind of first thing I ask them is do you listen to podcast?

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So yeah, well, have you heard of us or no? Well, here's my card so it's an opportunity to do that and Probably the one of my favorite moments so far

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I had a young lady come young white lady come up to the table and say that you know

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She's been listening to the show since the beginning, you know, and like you said just thinking cuz I'm a I'm a black reformed guy

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You know Not necessarily thinking about race or anything, but just to know that my show is reaching those, you know different neighborhoods different limits

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They're probably wouldn't normally reach now because of the fact that you are reformed and I'm sure you would even admit in The black community and even in the black

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Christian community. That is a Very small minority. I mean, it's even a minority amongst white

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Christians for sure Today not not historically, but today it certainly is but have you had any negative feedback?

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From your black brothers and sisters or even just black folks from the community whether they're believers or not

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From what you're doing sure, so Not really negative feedback. Here's why a lot of people don't know about reformed theology

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Like they have no idea what it is. A lot of people from my neighborhood They're wearing bar gear have no idea what reform stands for mean

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And even because they're wearing it. They don't even know but because they like I'm a likable person

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They Want to support me and so they're wearing it not even knowing what it means what it is

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And so I find that in the black community especially in a lot of churches they believe in a lot of sound teaching like, you know

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Trinity and You know just understanding the sovereignty of God. They just never been put in a place theologically

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They never been explained like this is there's a doctrine that does this or you know

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You read you believe this for a reason one of the reasons why I was so intrigued by reformed theology Because it explained the very thing that I believe like I always believed it because of the church

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I was like, oh, you know, we we sang this song, you know blessed Trinity I didn't know you know that it was the actual a doctrine of a triune

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God. So a lot of black Christians believe in the sovereignty of God believe in the

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Trinity believe and you know A lot of times the doctrines of grace, but they just don't know to label it that and so I rarely get pushed back either because They have no idea or they believe it.

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Anyway, and I was like, well, you know, I Just never knew what it was Have you seen?

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Folks no matter what color they are come from out of Either non -reformed or even aberrant or a false religion

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Into the reformed faith because of the bar or because of any contact with you sure.

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So I've actually talked to you know via inbox people that found the podcast

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And in whatever episode it may have been that exposed them to you know Reformed theology and then that because I always say, you know, we're kind of like the gateway, you know, it's very

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Informal very frontline so they will hear my podcast and then that'll lead them to you know an author that they may mention or they'll follow that person up and that was part of their journey of coming out of You know, especially charismatic because I have a lot of charismatic friends that was my background

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So a few people that were connected to me that way heard a podcast and was able to follow that train

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Using the podcast to get out of care. I guess the charismatic ideology And you actually have an entire network it's not just your program

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Tell us about some of the other programs. Oh sure. So probably the most popular one and they're actually surpassing

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The bar would be just thinking with Daryl and Virgil They do Darryl Bernard Haverson.

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Yeah, and they're Joe Walker their Virgil, Omaha Walker And so they do they they do like a

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I guess you could say they handle current events and they deal with a lot of social justice issue from a biblical worldview

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Very very rich in content So they are you know, they're just thinking podcast.

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We also have pastor discussion John Hawkins and And one of his associate pastors do a weekly show talk about this life as a pastor

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Then we also have guys with Bibles three guys that do like a biblical Study throughout the

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Bible then we also have our truth and fire the podcast a lot of people recognize the truth of fire host she actually is

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On the American Gospel documentary the only black lady on there Candace She's the host of the truth of fire podcast, which is also on the bar podcast

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Network cool now why don't you tell us about some of the

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Most fascinating Encounters you've had in the podcast world through the bar some of the things that have the most

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Lasting impact on your mind and memory that you cherish the most etc. Gotcha so there you know a lot of people ask that question like you know as far as what episode or what show because I you know interview a lot of people and so Always number one on my list is always the time.

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I interviewed Mark Dever and Mark he He pretty much felt like a punch in the gut.

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I have a ex Employee an ex -employee that that I had was agnostic and I was asking

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Mark for you know Some tips on how to you know how to evangelize to this guy and so Mark made a statement on a podcast

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He said, you know, he said it's kind of said it in a prayer he said I pray that you care just as much about your employees soul as you do this podcast and That hit me hard because I really cared about the podcast, you know

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And so that was very humbling very, you know Maybe you know readjust and and just you know remind myself that the priority isn't the podcast the priority is

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Helping, you know when so is the Christ so that was big number two was a

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Rosario Butterfield She was on the show and she had just wrote the book. The gospel has a housekeep and You've interviewed her on that book before I have.

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Oh, okay. I've been wanting to and there have always been some kind of Unfortunate circumstance our schedules not match up.

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Well, you know, that's rare that I get it before you just just FYI So so I had her on the show and she was talking about the book and she literally was talking about, you know

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You know opening your house letting your house be, you know, and me I am a security, you know

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Concealed weapon, you know, and I'm like, you're like, I'm gonna let somebody in my house And she said, you know, if it wasn't for somebody letting her in their house

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She would still be you know, a lesbian pretty much. Yeah, and that was like Giving her testimony on my show a couple of years ago.

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That was definitely one of my fondest memories of an interview as well one of those really remarkable

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Transformation stories of a perfect self -professing leftist and lesbian who actually has become a

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Christian and a transformed human now heterosexual and in a marriage with a with a pastor and so on so just a really phenomenal and Amazing story.

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Yes, sir one of the most controversial issues that Unfortunately as you are fully aware that is dividing brothers and sisters is the social gospel

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I should say the social justice issue and It's interesting that I have had men on my program

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Who only nine years ago? I've had the BTN if we lay

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I've had Anthony Bradley on my show and just nine years ago they seem to be saying very different things than they are saying today and What is your take on what is going on with that issue?

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I think we talked about this last time Yeah, my take on the issue and Those guys are their theme is is more than a gospel.

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My theme is it's the gospel. That is the answer, you know Racism is a sin sin is a gospel issue.

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I don't Think or I know we won't see the reconciliation of sin in this lifetime that will come when

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Christ returns You know, so just like adultery just like any other sin in the world

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There's there's nothing we can do on this side that will cure it besides preach the gospel and allow

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God to change hearts that's the only thing that fixed that and And it don't matter if you if if it's like I said if it's racism, it don't matter if it's adultery

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It don't matter if it's fornication, whatever that sin is because it isn't sin It only thing only cure only answer is the gospel.

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Amen. And the thing that's tragic is that It seemed I will give the benefit of the doubt to many of these folks involved in that movement

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That it's unconscious but many of them have clearly

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Attempted to fight racism with racism With their own form of racism, correct?

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And in some of them would even Claim that they cannot rightly be accused of racism

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Which which just for the record when Anthony Bradley was on my show nine years ago

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He laughed at the notion that a black person could not be a racist

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And he mocked he mocked the idea Wow, so But what do you think?

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are From your own experience what you have witnessed around you. What are the most? pressing issues that Have created conflict between the church in the world

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That have most predominantly manifested themselves In your own surroundings in the 21st century

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Mmm, that is a complex question The I don't know, you know, so so many things come to mind, you know,

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I think about Well within the church I think about a social justice issue, you know dividing, you know brothers and sisters

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But as far as the church in the world, I think really that's when you get into the political side, you know with the the left, you know, and the conservative and you know just The whole world wanting to go left wanting to be liberal wanting wanting that, you know, and then the church

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You know trying to find that line or you know The world drawing the line for them and then trying to be on the right side of that line

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So I think that's probably the the the real issue and talking to James white he'll make you nervous because he'll make you feel like that, you know, the government's gonna shut down religion and we got a

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Scan our face to go to church. So that that's also, you know, maybe on the horizon, man He I had him on the show.

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Well, I would interview with him yesterday he just he was talking about, you know, all the third world countries how they're dealing with that and So I I mean that has to be on the list as well

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Yeah, well some sometimes when I speak to James White he has the same effect on me as Paul Washer does where I where I start to feel depressed for a while But that should come with self -examination through right but but both thankfully

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Masterfully directs us to the loving arms of the merciful Savior, correct While giving us the bad news and then giving us that good news to follow up, that's right

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Well, you are obviously in the podcast Business you're in the podcast ministry

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What what kind of counsel can you give to Christians listening who perhaps they're a pastor perhaps

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They're just a learned individual they feel that they Perhaps have gifts that would lend themselves to starting a podcast.

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What kind of advice can you give to them about things like that? Yeah, now that's my passion you tapped into what

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I'm really passionate about My advice to those folks man is is it's the

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Nike slogan. Just do it Podcast is the future. We live in a Netflix society.

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Everybody wants things on demand podcast is radio on demand If you if you're interested in any shape form of fashion

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I say do it you literally can start a podcast today with just a smartphone and be on iTunes

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Google Play all over the world with just a phone no microphone me and you we're speaking on some pretty high -tech devices right now but you literally can it, you know, you literally can jump on and a

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Podcast in a matter of minutes with just your phone. So my encouragement would be to just do it

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Don't you know, don't overthink don't over manuscript, you know people try to I have people to give me a whole thesis of okay

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I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. No if you feel called to that, especially now because there's no

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NBC. There's no ABC There's nobody restricted who can start a podcast So if you feel called to do or if you really if that's something you want to do

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My advice is to do it and and reach out to me. I love helping people start man I'm telling you, that's my passion.

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You see I'm lighting up right now Because I love helping people start podcasts because I think it's the one

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Media that is free, you know, there's ways to do it that it's free and that also it will

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You know, it will it will it's open to everybody and if someone perhaps they are already familiar or becoming familiar through this interview with The bar and your network and they said wow,

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I'd like to be a part of This network that Dwayne Atkinson is talking about What kind of information can you give them?

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What are you looking for in somebody? Who has a podcast or wants to start one?

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Sure. So, uh, you know because my name is on it I'm very very very very very picky.

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They should be about who I allow on the network. It is a very strenuous

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Investigation But you always reach out to me through the pie through the podcast website the bar podcast calm

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There's a comment section where you can send me a message And then myself my team we will evaluate, you know, we'll look at it

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You know, we won't we won't run your social or anything But you know, we were really we were really getting into it and just make sure that You know the context

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Is you know make sure what you're talking about isn't already duplicated on our network Of course as well as make sure what you're saying lines up with the same things that we're saying well, you have like a mission statement or something that they have to Be an agreement with so I'm actually developing one.

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I'm developing one I'm using the rest of the people on the team to do that But yeah that that's definitely that that would be something

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What would prohibit somebody from being on your network? Um, probably just stands on social justice, of course

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You know definitely You know the content like I'm particularly about like I said about what

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I put my name on so it has to be either someone with a good The content has to be good.

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I have to be talking about something. They have to have a Niche that fit within our network.

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So, you know, if you don't have those pieces, then you know, that wouldn't be a good fit Well tell our listeners again how they can get in contact with you

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Yeah, so if you just go to the bar podcast calm and there's a little contact us tab and you can message me right there

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I'm the only person that check it and I definitely will respond Almost I'm not as smart not as smart close you getting close though Dwayne it's always a pleasure to have you on iron sharpens on radio

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It's always a pleasure Seeing you always at the g3 conference and I hope I continue to see you here and other places that the

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Lord may Open up opportunities for fellowship. Yes, sir, and God bless you and the bar.

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Yes, sir. Thank you Thank you for having me, you know, we say you're the legend man. So Well, I am honored to know that you had told me at one time that I was at least a part of the motivation

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Entering into the Cast room. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. We're going to take a short break now for some messages from our sponsors

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That's chris arnson at gmail .com Welcome back to iron sharpens iron radio.

26:53

My name is Eric Nielsen. I'm sitting in for Chris Arnson and We're listening to interviews from the recent g3 conference

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This next interview is with pastor John Kratz of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia Chris Arnson again on site at the g3 conference at the

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Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia a suburb of Atlanta and this is the final day of The g3 conference and I have with me for another interview as I have in the past not only

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Had this guest on For a live telephone interview for the two -hour program and iron sharpens iron radio

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But I've also had on -site interviews with him here at the g3 conference It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor

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John Kratz of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia Thank you very much. Chris. It's an honor to be with you.

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You are also the pastor of my Most recently former pastor

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Mark Romaldi his past his parents Dale and John Romaldi are members of your car.

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That's right. That's right. And Well, tell us about tell our listeners about Faith Bible Church of Sharpsburg, Georgia for those of my listeners who have not yet heard you

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Yes, so we're I've been serving there for about 24 years and It's a just a strongly evangelical reformed church, we're part of fire the fellowship of independent reformed evangelicals and Usually known for for preaching

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Expositionally through books of the Bible, but just a high view of God and and Just a sweet congregation another distinctive that in God's Providence we've been able to have a counseling ministry

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Through our church to the community here in the south Everybody sort of thinks that they're

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Christians. I Often make the joke that as a southern pastor. My job is to get people lost, you know, so that they can become real

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Christians but Because of that biblical counseling is very strategic

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Many people obviously have problems and so they come there. They're happy to come to a church to try to receive help from the

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Bible and we offer this for free to the community and so we're very very grateful to have seen people come to Christ and marriages put back together and and Things like that just using the scriptures as we seek to minister to the community

29:41

Now you're a prolific writer, can you please list the books that you've written?

29:47

Yeah, thanks. So most recently I've written graciousness with Reformation Heritage books sort of the

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Trying to be the cure for a cage stage Calvinism, you know we all we all get very zealous for the truth and and my aim in this book is to say how can we

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Be gracious and maintain our passion for truth. So speaking the truth in love and Been privileged over the years to have written the

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John Newton bite -sized biography in that series that that came out and upsetting the world which is an exposition of Acts chapter 17

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The book that I've written that maybe has done the best is just a little small booklet Mighty men the starters guide to leading your family and then

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I've done craftsmen on the book of Proverbs and loving the church both with Shepherd Press and Then with Martha peace tying the knot tighter

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Kind of little marriage reminders and application questions So it's been a great blessing to have written over the years and see the see the

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Lord use those in different ways as People get a hold of it and and read, you know,

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Jim Eliff. Oh, yeah, Jim Jim He said, you know, if you write small books, they could get they get read.

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They're not they're not as impressive but But they actually get read and so that sounds like something

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Jim would say. Yes. Yes, so I resonate with that Please extend to him my greetings. It's been a long time since I've spoken with him.

31:30

Yeah, dear brother You mentioned before cage stage

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Calvinism, right and I think that there are occasions

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When that cage stage may erupt in many of us. I don't know if it ever erupts in you.

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You seem like a very gracious and humble type of a brother, but There is an attitude that people can develop perhaps a defense mechanism because Calvinism reform theology the doctrines of sovereign grace are a today in the 21st century a

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Minority on the Christian landscape right a growing minority sometimes growing in very good and healthy ways and sometimes

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The resurgence of Calvinism has I think gone in wrong directions, right, but we can at least

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I know I can and I know people that I Brothers that I know can have that cage stage or that anger return when we constantly see the beliefs that we cherish

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Misrepresented caricatured maligned It's especially Infuriating when you hear what we believe

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Attacked with complete ignorance, right when you know that many people who oppose what you believe have never read

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The actual champions of this theology. They've only read the polemic of books

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Against that's right by those who already hate this theology So What counsel can you give to those of us?

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who may either be remaining in a cage stage far longer than we should or When we see that that ugly side of our personalities rear its head and and actually we begin to contradict the very things that we believe because Obviously the doctrines of grace

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Are intended to humble us. That's right to the dust. That's right Yeah, so Usually when we think of cage stage

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Calvinism we think of people that are very brand new to the doctrines of grace Who maybe they've never heard it before and they get so excited.

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That's how I was. I was very much like that I actually came to the doctrines of grace working in a

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Christian bookstore in Chesapeake, Virginia Norfolk, Virginia Beach, that's where I grew up and one of my co -workers

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Was a Calvinist and this is back in the 80s long before kind of the resurgence of reform theology

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So it was very unusual But when no other customers were in the store, he would take me to the

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Bible section say what do you think about this in Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 about predestination and God's sovereignty and and Like the like the good weak evangelical

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I was I just stuck my fingers in my ears and yelled John 3 16 and ran the other way But slowly the word did the work and I mean

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I had never seen that. I didn't even know this was in the Bible I how did this get here? Because I sort of had the typical

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Baptist Experience where you just kind of know the stories from Sunday school

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But really you've never read through the letters or or put it together theologically

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So what what took me? You know months or however long to come to clarity

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I Expected everybody around me ought to know these things and understand it in just a week or two, right?

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Right so I thought that the Bible was like a club that I could use to just knock people over the head with and and Get them to understand as well

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So as you say though The more you the more you learn the glory of these truths and see

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God's sovereignty and realize That this isn't about me at all and what took me so long

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God is going to be patient with others as well and bring them along Over the years.

35:47

He helped me to become more gracious and kind in the way that I dealt with others

35:53

So that's a little different than than what you were saying. You were saying, you know later on though. We still see these truths we love

36:03

Misrepresented and and People reacting instead of responding and and How do we respond in graciousness then as well?

36:13

Well, I mean, I think the doctrines themselves ought to help us and as we kind of reflect upon the patience of the

36:21

Lord with us and The grace of the Lord with us. I think how many things are we still learning?

36:28

That the Lord has been so kind to bring us along and to get us where we need to go

36:34

That's the way he wants us to treat others as well. So we treat others out of the grace that we've received

36:42

So I think back to reading some Jerry Bridges books Where he talked about preaching the gospel to ourselves every day

36:50

Reminding ourselves that that this is this is all the grace of God. We are what we are by the grace of God That's gonna help me as I interact with others to be gracious to them as well

37:04

Praise God. We also know let me just say one more thing that came to mind We also know it is not our

37:12

Intensity that is going to win the day with others. It's the work of the

37:18

Lord Helping them to see and appreciate it That's gonna help them to see the truths that we love as well.

37:26

So in other words my Intensity or anger is not gonna be a winsome presentation of these things

37:36

What I need to do is sort of like what these guys at the Christian bookstore did to me

37:41

Just give the truth in a kind way clear way Answer questions and let the word do the work.

37:49

Let let the Lord do the work through the word of Helping people see that the universe is not

37:57

Circling around them, but we are all around God. He's the center of everything

38:04

Well, I ask of you to now conclude our interview perhaps with some counsel for Christians as we face the remainder of 2020 and we see a nation very hostile

38:25

Towards those of opposing views We have a nation

38:33

That is very hostile towards the Christian faith even those that many in the political arena who claim some form of allegiance to Jesus Christ whether in their

38:48

Roman Catholic religion or other religions that they may Be a part of they they still in essence hate the

38:56

Jesus Christ of Scripture and everything that he stands for in his inerrant word

39:03

Some counsel there how how can we as Ambassadors of Christ who are supposed to be a light to the world

39:16

Face this Situation in our country with dignity with humility with poise and with grace, yes well,

39:31

I think a Couple of thoughts come to mind one in the book of Revelation While that there are many difficulties and Interpretation the great the great thing we all agree on is that Jesus wins.

39:50

We're on the winning team So it doesn't matter how bad the game looks in the third quarter if we know that we are gonna win

40:00

We can't lose That's very encouraging the things that make people panic and freak out in life and in politics

40:11

Never make God panic One preacher I heard growing up said there is no panic button on the throne

40:18

God is never going. Oh, no. Can you believe right what the president tweeted this morning?

40:25

He never he's never upset by these things His plan is working out and then when we go back to the thought that our responsibility

40:34

Is not to get results our responsibility is to be faithful in The day that that God has for us and Faithful to be a light to be gracious to be committed to the truth and to speak the truth in love as the

40:55

Lord gives us occasion to do so and trust that God is gonna get glory for himself and His word doesn't return void.

41:05

He's going to Get good results. He's building his church He's going to win and you know what one

41:15

Social commentator I heard said this situation did not make Jesus go back into the tomb the tomb is still empty and So I think that we can have hope in spite of the challenges of the situation

41:30

And the surroundings, you know as you read through the history of the church, there have been many many dark times and many

41:39

Well, even around the world today our brothers and sisters Maybe even some that are that are listening to iron sharpens iron

41:47

Online are in incredibly difficult situations. They would look at us and say oh boy

41:54

If only we could be in the situation like Chris and John it would be so much easier

42:00

But God has us where we are and God is not panicked God's Word will win the day whether we be in a

42:09

Roma of Strength or you know, it's an aroma of death to those that aren't responding to the truth

42:18

Our responsibility is to just be faithful Where we are and let the

42:25

Lord take care of the results Amen, and could you provide for our listeners your website and any other contact information?

42:32

Okay. Yeah you can find me at at John Kratz on Twitter, and I'm on Facebook our church website is faith

42:41

Bible Church dot us and Sermons are on sermon audio as well. And I know that your books can be purchased by Or through a sponsor of ours

42:52

CV bbs .com. Yes, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com

42:57

Well, thank you. Pastor. John Kratz. I look forward to your return to iron sharpens iron radio. Thank you so much

43:03

Chris God bless. I hope you enjoyed that interview this next interview is with a

43:09

Young man who stops by the iron sharpens iron radio booth almost every year to talk with Chris Arnzen He did again at this recent conference in 2020.

43:19

Here is Chris's interview catching up with Kofi. Adub wahan Well, I'm back here on site at the g3 conference 2020 at the

43:29

Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta, Georgia College Park to be more specific and I have a returning guest on the program somebody especially to those who have listened to iron sharpens iron radio since we relaunched in 2015 this name should be familiar to you

43:54

And you should be no stranger to this name Kofi. I do bohan.

43:59

Yep. You nailed it and he Has been a listener to iron sharpens iron radio for quite a while.

44:08

I think even before we look relocated Yeah back. Was it WNYG? Oh, yeah back in New York was listening back in the

44:16

UK. Yeah, that's right You were actually living in the UK and listening in the UK and now you are a resident in Medford, Oregon, correct.

44:24

That's right and And Let to refresh my memory, how did you first discover iron sharpens iron radio?

44:32

It was through the dividing line in the ministry of dr. James White. He'd often talk about oh I'm gonna be on iron sharpens iron later

44:39

What is this show iron sharpens iron and then I started listening realize. Oh, this is really good

44:45

Yeah, that's kind of how I became a fan all roads lead to dr. James R.

44:50

White. This is the saying That's very true too, but I have found that I think most of my

44:59

Listeners in some way heard about my show from James White and or his program the dividing line but Tell us about This church plant that you are involved in if I'm not mistaken

45:17

It somehow involves at least one of the Brethren from first love radio first love publishing first love mission.

45:25

Sure. So In the last six seven months become involved with the church plants in our local area called

45:31

Grace Community Church of the Rogue Valley Our Current pastor sort of and we're still in the very early stages of this but so primary preaching pastor is

45:42

Dr. Parker Raiden, who is a graduate of the Master's Seminary down there in Southern, California And so myself

45:49

Parker and another brother Brian Lozney who is involved with first love publications

45:54

We're really the church planting team behind Grace Community Church of the Rogue Valley and you know we are a church committed to the doctrines of grace to the biblical gospel to expositional preaching to Christ -centered worship and honestly, we're just desiring to see a faithful Bible teaching gospel -loving church in an area that really needs it and How did you become familiar with first love publications, which is also

46:21

The sister ministry to first love radio who live stream iron chirping Zion radio every day

46:27

Actually got to know first love publications through the g3 conference And I am the one responsible for them being here initially so that yep in this case all roads lead to Yes, you you have become a regular attender at g3 and I typically

46:49

In fact, I think I know that Every g3 I've been to which is the last four you've been you've been in attendance, right?

46:57

That's great This is year number five for me. Yeah, so tell us about your own pursuit in Christian ministry the different ways that That you are using the gifts that God has given you to minister to do kingdom work and to bless

47:17

Not only the body of Christ, but the lost world around us sure, so In addition to being involved with the church plants.

47:25

I'm also a seminary student preparing for possibly vocational Christian ministry on top of that Actively involved in teaching in the church.

47:36

So teach a midweek Bible study fulfill the pulpit on occasion have done so in other churches as well God's given me an unusual platform through social media.

47:47

I still work and explain it Even this week as I'm walking around people kind of stop and say hey, I read your stuff on Twitter.

47:54

I find it encouraging Thank you, and I'm just like really Yeah, in fact someone once Sent me an email or a text or I don't know how they communicated with me who was a listener to iron sharpens iron radio

48:09

And I said, who is this guy Kofi? And why is that he winds up everywhere? You seem to be a

48:18

Ever -present fixture in the Christian social media world. Hey, I just like to fellowship with other believers in every space

48:26

It just happens social media is just a very Concentrated way to do that, but they'll thank Lord for the you know

48:32

Minuscule voices give me in that realm and you know more importantly in terms of reaching the lost

48:38

You know that evangelism is why we're here, you know, if I think it's John McCarthy who said that you know if You know if God just wanted us to be saved and just carry on with our lives

48:48

He'd take us to heaven after we were converted. No, he leaves us here so that we can reach the lost world

48:55

That's out there. And so in my own personal life, I make it a point to you know find ways to have gospel conversations and to develop relationships with people so that we can get to the most important message, which is the

49:05

Gospel and you know, God has been faithful with that You know, we our job is to be faithful in proclaiming the message

49:12

We leave the results to God and so I just try to be faithful in sharing the gospel with people that I know with Whether that's in a conversation whether that's in Christian literature

49:22

Whether that's pointing somebody to a resource as they're dealing with some of the heavier questions of life I just try to ensure that throughout all of life rather than just being oh this is the thing

49:31

I do for a couple hours a week, but every avenue of life is taken up with How best can

49:37

I proclaim the gospel of Christ to those who urgently need to hear? now you said that you are

49:47

Perhaps perhaps not a hundred percent sure but you are Exploring the idea of entering into full -time

49:54

Christian ministry Are you so you're still at the point where you're not a hundred percent sure about that?

50:01

Oh, no, I'm pretty sure Okay, you know, I've known that I've had the conviction that God wants me to be amazing since I was 18 years old

50:12

That doesn't mean I didn't fight it for a long time Trying to you know kind of pursue my own thing and do that which makes me the most comfortable

50:21

But since I was 18 years old started teaching the Bible while I was in college I I knew that this is what

50:26

God wanted me to do and you know I always recognize that the best way for me to learn that was to be in the context of the local church and so that led to being more devoted to my church and ensuring that I'm listening to the advice of my elders and Particularly the last church that I was in before I moved to the

50:44

US Grace Life London You know, it was there for five years and you know The elders there were incredibly encouraging and affirming of giving me opportunities to explore they are the gift that I believe that God had given me and in doing so that gave me opportunity to Not just say

51:01

I have the gift, but that's okay. If you say you have this gift, let's see And so that was a really encouraging thing for me

51:07

I've been very sure for quite some time. I think the where the trepidation at times comes is okay

51:13

Well, where exactly does God want me to serve, you know, he's took him at geographically

51:19

Yeah, geographically, you know, like I said if you had met me ten years ago and said Oh, you're gonna move to America and have a child on the way and what have you.

51:26

What is it? Are you sure? In fact, I think if I'm not mistaken when when you first started

51:33

Calling into Iron Sherpins on radio when it was a call -in show back in the broadcasting days of New York You you were not yet married.

51:43

Am I right? I was not yet married. No and You have subsequently become married and you have a child on the way or a child already child on the way

51:53

Okay child on the way so Going back to this conviction of Entering into the ministry it is commonly called a call that a brother receives a call into the ministry to specifically in this case the pastoral ministry how does a

52:18

Cessationist as I believe you are How does a cessationist explain receiving that call and what

52:25

I mean by that obviously for those of you Who aren't familiar with that term

52:31

If you were to ask a charismatic there are many ways that they might define that In a way that would

52:40

Communicate the understanding that God is directly somehow in extra biblical means

52:48

Instilling this impression upon them perhaps through a voice or some kind of word of knowledge and so on But a cessationist who believes that we only learn from the scriptures well, at least in a authoritative way we we in some ways

53:08

Discover things and are guided in a lesser degree by Providence. I believe that you would agree

53:15

But how does how does a cessationist explain receiving the the call to the gospel ministry?

53:22

That's a really good question We have to interrupt this interview to go to our midway break Please take the time to listen and learn what our sponsors have to offer if you enjoy iron sharpens iron radio we encourage you to patronize these sponsors as much as possible and Be sure to let them know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio

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Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

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Which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture Through the person and work of our

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We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

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That's NAS Bible comm to place you Welcome back to iron sharpens iron radio.

01:05:41

My name is Eric Nielsen and I'm sitting in today for Chris Arnzen We are continuing our interviews from the recent 2020 g3 conference and we were in the middle of an interview with Kofi Adu -Bohan.

01:05:54

Let's continue listening to that interview going back to this conviction of entering into the ministry it is commonly called a call that a brother receives a call into the ministry specifically in this case the pastoral ministry how does a

01:06:18

Cessationist as I believe you are How does a cessationist explain receiving that call and what

01:06:25

I mean by that obviously for those of you? Who aren't familiar with that term?

01:06:31

If you were to ask a charismatic there are many ways that they might define that in a way that would

01:06:40

Communicate the understanding that God is directly somehow in extra biblical means

01:06:47

Instilling this impression upon them perhaps through a voice or some kind of word of knowledge and so on But a cessationist who believes that we only learn from the scriptures

01:07:01

Well, at least in a authoritative way we We in some ways

01:07:08

Discover things and are guided in a lesser degree by Providence. I believe that you would agree

01:07:14

Absolutely, absolutely, but how does how does a cessationist explain receiving the the call to the gospel ministry?

01:07:22

That's a really good question. I think in our reform tradition We've often said that the call that a man feels to the ministry or his of the ministry kind of has three components to it so we say that there is the internal call or That desire that he has so I'm from the

01:07:38

UK. We say one Timothy. You guys would say first Timothy One Timothy 3 1, you know if any man aspires

01:07:45

So Donald Trump was not wrong Then you're saying what he we could have a very lengthy conversation

01:07:50

What he said what he said one Corinthians did they say or one two Corinthians? He's not entirely wrong there's a long explanation

01:07:56

I could give as to why he's not but But yeah in one

01:08:01

Timothy 3 1, you know if if anyone aspires to or desires The work of an overseer or an elder he desires a noble work

01:08:10

So there is that internal conviction that I desire to serve the Lord in this capacity We also recognize that there's an external component to that which is okay.

01:08:20

Are you actually functioning in that work? Do you have the giftings and the character that are commensurate with that and then has the church?

01:08:29

Which is the only body that has the authority to call elders has the church said

01:08:35

Okay, we recognize that this brother in line with the internal conviction.

01:08:40

He has has the necessary gifts and character to Be ordained or pointed to this office and so those three components together comprise at least in my understanding of our reform tradition what we refer to as the call to the ministry and What would you advise or perhaps even warn

01:09:02

Listeners about young men who have the idea in their head. I would like to be a pastor

01:09:09

What would you warn these individuals about in regarding?

01:09:15

wrong motivations for this And also things about these people

01:09:21

That would disqualify them from an office that they might not even be aware of and I'm not I'm not even talking about Things that would be involved in perpetual unrepentant scandalous sin or anything like that.

01:09:35

I'm just talking about Qualities and gifts and even

01:09:43

The the focus of Mm -hmm of the primary focus of these individuals in what they envision

01:09:52

Being most important in their roles as ministers. Oh, that's that's a very loaded question.

01:09:58

There's so much you could say Well firstly, I'm only 29. So I'll gladly put myself in that young person category still

01:10:07

And like I said 18 kind of began to feel this

01:10:13

Drawing internally towards this as well as being given opportunities and it being kind of pointed out by church leadership

01:10:21

But I think there was as a young person. There's a certain zeal that you can have without knowledge Where you stop putting yourself forward saying

01:10:29

I can do this And I think what the first piece of advice I give to a young man would be remember that it's the church that God uses to equip to Train even if we send him off to seminary, he's doing he's a part of a local church

01:10:46

All of that happens in the local church context. And so talk to your elders And of course first and foremost have elders

01:10:58

Let's be clear if you are not part of a local body of believers with leadership that you can be accountable to with The marks of the true church as we understand it the preaching of the word the right

01:11:10

Administration of the ordinances the practice of discipline if you are Not part of a church and you say that God's called you to ministry at best re -examine

01:11:24

Me personally, I would say I don't think God's called you at all because if you can't submit to the authority that God has placed

01:11:31

Spiritually, which is the church if you can't submit to being the church you can't submit to the church by being a part of it

01:11:37

Then why should anybody believe that God has called you and expects you to lead a local body of believers

01:11:51

So that'll be I agree that's the very first thing you're right even before we talk about talking to your elders Do you have elders because if you don't you're already disqualified we can run we can move on but if you are a

01:12:03

Committed member of a body of believers you are Obeying Hebrews 13 17

01:12:10

Obeying your leaders as those who have the rule over you then you go and speak to them Don't just kind of take on yourself.

01:12:16

Well, God's called me. So off I go I grew up in a coastal funny enough and I saw lots of guys do that where oh

01:12:23

I had a dream of God called me to minister. So I'm gonna go start ministry and Make complete shipwreck of their lives you know, there's a shepherding care that needs to come in where guys are

01:12:36

Shepherded and discipled and trained and Somebody outside of you can say hey, okay.

01:12:41

I There's a gift thing here Maybe you need to work on your character in these areas in these areas or you've not faced this situation before let's kind of walk through this so talk to your elders as You're talking to your others they're gonna give you those opportunities be faithful in the even the small opportunities you get

01:13:00

Don't kind of run ahead and say I could be doing so much more than this Why do they let me do this know every opportunity is important for building character on the personal front be a person of prayer

01:13:11

Be a person committed to the Word of God in your own personal life you know, I think one of the most dangerous things that can happen is to be someone who just prepares messages and so the only time you're in God's Word is when you need to get a sermon up or you only pray in public or You only read for the purpose of sermons, no you need to be somebody who has a vibrant personal devotional life it's because out of the

01:13:42

Overflow of that devotional life Comes your ministry. That's how you're gonna be able to most effectively

01:13:48

Minister to people I believe it was McShane who said the greatest need of my people is my own personal holiness And so if you as a young man, especially in this age where we are so hyper sexualized and sexual sin

01:13:59

So many different forms is a danger if you are not Seeking to be a person of devotion and communion with Christ You're gonna try and go into ministry and then it just becomes a performance you do things to try and perform and to be seen rather than For the purpose of building up the church because you yourself have been built up in your own soul

01:14:23

By prayer and the ministry of the word Yes, you bring up a great point about those that crave to be seen a person has to be careful,

01:14:36

I would imagine Very careful that they have not developed an interest in entering pastoral ministry

01:14:45

Because they love public speaking they love Commanding the attention of an audience and they've realized they've developed a gift for that They have a craving to have authority over people

01:15:06

Now there are obviously Things about those elements of being a pastor

01:15:15

Those things that involve public speaking those things that involve oratory gifts and The realization that being a pastor does involve having authority

01:15:29

There has to be a way to discern Whether those

01:15:37

Beliefs in your own gifts that you have received speaking and having the ability to shepherd and teach a flock that There there are good and rightful

01:15:56

Ways to view those elements of your gifts as a sign of your calling but they can't be

01:16:04

Exclusively or or primary reasons why you're entering into absolutely. Absolutely.

01:16:09

You know, you can't go into it as you're thinking You know, oh I'm really good at this so I should go into this role or worse

01:16:17

I can do it better than this person this person in this person, so Let me go and do it those are terrible motivations to go into the ministry and they're not sustainable motivations either because when the hardships of life hit and the ministry becomes as brutal as it becomes

01:16:38

Those motivations won't hold Like they will crumble under you like a house of cards

01:16:43

You you need the motivation that okay. Firstly. God has called me to this that I want to glorify

01:16:51

God That I want to see his people better at my own expense.

01:16:56

I think it's Paul who says that he was willing to That he was willing to labor to be spent to spend and to be spent, you know that I want to give everything

01:17:07

You know, it's when you have that kind of a mindset You know now you're ready, you know when it's

01:17:15

Particularly as youth, you know, you still have that mindset that says I can

01:17:21

I can do everything. I'm really intelligent I'm really smart. I'm better than this guy. Like if you still have that mindset, you're never gonna be, you know effective in ministry because everything is being governed not by Ultimately the desire as the catechism says to glorify

01:17:36

God and enjoy him forever but really to Glorify yourself and to enjoy the benefits of this very public position and that's a very dangerous place to be

01:17:46

Now obviously Christ is the greatest Example of a shepherd and he was a servant

01:17:54

He was a humble servant to even wash the feet of his disciples

01:18:00

Mm -hmm Rather than just exclusively having a mindset that God has given me the gift.

01:18:09

I believe to be an authority in the church to have people

01:18:17

Subject to my authority in the church. I believe I could lead etc.

01:18:23

You have to also Recognize that you have the ability to serve and to be a humble servant in order to be qualified for this office.

01:18:32

Absolutely. Absolutely and pride can be the the worst

01:18:39

Motivating factor for anybody to enter into the ministry and I think that's tragically a very prevalent thing.

01:18:46

Yeah unfortunately and Also the responsibility of being a an elder pastor a preacher a teacher

01:18:59

Entering into this should take very serious Prayer and evaluation and introspection because you are going to be held

01:19:13

To a higher level of accountability than you're just average Christian. Mm -hmm

01:19:18

And that's something that don't you think that the listener should be warned about who is any inclination of becoming a leader?

01:19:24

Yeah, absolutely. James 3 one is very clear that you know, my brothers let not many of you be teachers knowing that we will incur a stricter judgment you know, it's

01:19:33

I Believe it was but I believe it's attributed to special a number of people have also said that If you could do anything else by going to the ministry

01:19:44

Do anything else? You know in the sense that the responsibility that weighs heavy on Anyone who says

01:19:55

I I believe that God has called me to this work that level of responsibility alone

01:20:03

Should make you think twice about just flippantly saying hey God's called me to do this. So there I go

01:20:09

No, absolutely. I agree that the recognizing the weightiness of this ministry should

01:20:17

Bring about a sobriety particularly for a younger man. Yeah, there should be a sense where you say Well, I need to be careful with saying that flippantly maybe you know, you're not sure and No, there's

01:20:31

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying Okay, I want to explore what this looks like and see what the Lord would do by all means

01:20:37

I think that's I think that's a wise thing to do But if you say God has called you to this then count the cost and recognize this will demand everything and as far as Not only recognizing yourself

01:20:55

The gifts the qualities the character traits That a person

01:21:03

Should or even must possess in order to take seriously a call to the ministry

01:21:10

How important is it for others to recognize? This in you and I know that there is some qualification behind that There's a difference between a young man who's in a biblically faithful healthy church who

01:21:30

Should be getting the encouragement by his pastors elders brothers and sisters in the congregation to enter into this ministry

01:21:42

Mm -hmm, but you do have occasions where there are people who may be ideally suited and Genuinely called of God that are in horrible churches.

01:21:55

They might even be in false churches in their family members or unbelievers and wouldn't have the insight or Holy Spirit Guidance to recognize these gifts.

01:22:06

So obviously it's good. There's gonna be balance, but tell us about the importance of this Recognition of others

01:22:13

Sure, you know with all those caveats in mind of we are often not the best assessors of our own abilities gifts and character

01:22:25

And that I mean that's just as true Negatively as positively by that. I mean we either can be very lenient With our failings to the point where we don't treat them for the seriousness that they deserve or we can sometimes underestimate what we're able to do and It I think that's why

01:22:48

God builds into this whole process The ministry of the local church where other people in an ideal situation where other people can say hey you demonstrate this

01:23:03

Aptitude I'm noticing this in your character brother. You did this and it was a great blessing to me Um There's just something invaluable about that external recognition that External encouragement or admonition as the case may be

01:23:19

Where we can get a honest assessment all the way around as to how we are doing that There was 174 15 says as we immersed ourselves in these things our progress becomes more evident to all

01:23:32

You know progress can't be evident if nobody's watching to see progress And so that's where having the local church observe and Celebrate when necessary and rebuke when necessary Becomes really really invaluable

01:23:48

Right, and I have to make a explanation about something. I said When I said that somebody in a false church

01:23:56

Could genuinely receive the call from God to enter in the ministry. They would obviously first have to leave that false church.

01:24:02

Yeah God doesn't genuinely Call people into the ministry those who will perpetuate a false teaching from a false church that they're in But there are even

01:24:14

Churches that are theologically sound led by regenerate men that unfortunately

01:24:24

Are Are marked out By the fact that these men although regenerate

01:24:33

Have flaws and who may have a a lack of encouragement as one of them that they don't have a an encouraging

01:24:44

Spirit about them with those in the congregation. They may be even be so proud of their own and overly protective in a selfish way of their own pulpit that they would not give a brother the

01:24:59

Encouragement to enter in the ministry or I and I have I have witnessed this for with friends of mine over the

01:25:08

Decades have been a Christian where a pastor may recognize an

01:25:15

Extraordinary gift and a young man in the church, but he doesn't want to lose him He doesn't want that young man to go off to seminary and then and then depart forever to a different church

01:25:25

So there's an agreed aspect there, but just I just wanted to qualify what I meant by that No, and I think you raise a valid point there where?

01:25:35

Yeah for all the For all the impetuous nature of particularly younger men and the fact the younger men do have a tendency at times to kind of run ahead

01:25:46

I mean it happens. Let's not say it doesn't you know for all of that, you know

01:25:55

Younger men are younger men for a reason they young you know what they need is greater encouragement what they need is not

01:26:04

How could you possibly do that you're ridiculous sometimes that's necessary you speak harshly But more often than not

01:26:09

I think we're particularly pastors and more seasoned men in the church can help

01:26:15

The effort is to come alongside and say okay. Let's say a young man makes a mistake Not something sinful just he makes a mistake, you know, he does something in a way that's less than ideal

01:26:27

Coming alongside and saying okay, brother. Let's kind of walk through this What happened? Where do you think this went wrong?

01:26:35

Maybe he doesn't know where it went wrong. Maybe he doesn't if he doesn't okay Can I share with you from my experience with my walk with the

01:26:41

Lord what this looks like in terms of getting it, right? Okay So now you explain it he's walking you're walking alongside him as you explain this metaphorically speaking, do you see why that's an issue

01:26:55

You would hope that you know, he's humble and teacher was like, yeah, okay, I can see that What have you done in that moment?

01:27:01

Rather than you know, kind of bringing out the stick to beat him as it were You've brought about a moment of hopefully maturation because now he's able to grow he's able to Learn from that.

01:27:13

So the next time he's faced with that situation, he's not afraid He's like or he's not gonna make that mistake again, but he's like no

01:27:22

I you know with the Lord's help I learned the lesson from last time and so yeah, there's something to be said for you know, treasuries

01:27:30

Not to function in fear as it were whether it's fear of this person Demonstrates way too much gifting or if I give him an opportunity he's gonna up and leave no and at least as reformed people we believe in the sovereignty of God if God has called him and if God's equipped him

01:27:49

Let's obey God and let's leave the consequences or the results of that to God You be faithful in coming alongside him and encouraging him, you know fulfilling to Timothy to to know the things that you've seen and heard in me these teach to Faithful men who be able to teach others also and one thing that I Have thought about for a long time

01:28:17

Having witnessed different experiences with pastors and their wives

01:28:28

I Believe and you can respond to this. I believe that an unmarried man who has a

01:28:40

Desire to enter into the pastoral ministry who is certain. He has received a call from God Must make sure that the woman that he eventually marries

01:28:53

Is a woman called to be a pastor's wife Mm -hmm, and that a man who believes he has a call into the ministry who is already married

01:29:04

Since he cannot divorce his wife just because he doesn't believe that he that she is the spiritual maturity

01:29:13

Necessary to be a pastor's wife. He can't divorce her. He's already married to her He cannot enter into pastoral ministry if it is clear his wife

01:29:22

Does not have the character traits suited for a pastor's wife. No, I 100 % agree with you.

01:29:29

I Had the opportunity to talk with dr. Steve Lawson Years ago now he came to visit our church in London and you know, he mentioned this that you know at that point

01:29:41

I was unmarried. So this is good for me to hear you know that importance of brothers pray well about The woman you marry because she's going to end up being a

01:29:57

Partner in the ministry she's going to be basically have a front -row seat to your ministry and If She for a second is not committed to this that's gonna be a problem that you have to deal with now

01:30:24

For those who were married in the remember him saying and your wife shows some reticence in these areas

01:30:31

One pray You know, we can I think it's Bunyan who said we can do more than pray after we pray

01:30:37

But we can't do more than pray before we pray So pray and also talk to your wife

01:30:45

If you do sense a reticence or an uneasiness You know 1 Peter 3 7 says that we're to live with our wives in an understanding way.

01:30:51

So talk to her honey Sense a reticence about you know me pursuing the ministry.

01:30:59

Is there a reason for maybe it's something that can be very oh I won't say very easy. Let me be careful.

01:31:05

That's something that you can begin to deal with you can begin to approach together It also may be something that okay

01:31:14

Maybe we need some outside counsel to help us walk through this perhaps going to your own past of it saying no

01:31:20

There's obviously how do you navigate this particular issue, but pray Talk about it and again, um,

01:31:28

I would say don't make any decisions until You've both come to a place of understanding on that issue

01:31:37

Because you do not want to You know grieve your wife by pursuing a course of action that she's not comfortable with but at the same time

01:31:44

If God has legitimately called you Then there's going to be an element to which she can't hinder the ministry that God's giving to you either

01:31:52

Yeah, that's a complex situation there's a bunch of other things that could be said but ultimately

01:31:57

I think whether it's an unmarried man or a married man pray Talk and if necessary get the necessary counsel so that you can begin to navigate those issues sooner rather than later yes, and obviously the the explicit teaching from Scripture itself

01:32:16

Is that the man must rule his household? Well, yes and Obviously that would that would implicate

01:32:29

That would imply that the the woman who is to be his wife or the woman who is already his wife if he's ruling

01:32:36

His household well as a pastor She is going to be Behaving in such a way that would be expected of a godly woman married to an under shepherd of the flock

01:32:49

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. She would not be somebody that Would be

01:32:58

Someone who just has an intense dislike of Fellowship being with the people of God and and so on and of course she would have to be someone who is sexually pure and faithful and and and so on but And How would our listeners who have interest in In following the updates in the news about this church plant and visiting the church plant

01:33:29

How would they get in contact with you and find out more about it? I see some more information about Grace Community Church of the

01:33:35

Rogue Valley. You can visit our website at GCC Rogue Valley, that's R -O -G -U -E

01:33:41

R -O -G -U -E -V -A -L -L -L -E R -O -G -U -E -V -A -L -L -L -E On our website you can get access to our social media pages as well

01:33:49

So you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter and if you send us a message chances are I'm the admin guy

01:33:55

So I'll read it so That that would be the best way to kind of catch up with what's happening with us like I said, it's still very early stages, but hey if you're ever on you know, if you ever on i5 and you're

01:34:07

Traveling and trying to find a church on the Lord's Day. We'd absolutely love to have you worship with us. Amen Well, thanks again

01:34:14

Kofi for being on the show. I look forward to seeing you at the next g3 and other events and I hope to hear from you soon with a question for one of our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Always a joy to be with you

01:34:27

Chris. Thank you so much. God bless I hope you enjoyed hearing from Kofi at this time. We need to take a few moments to hear from our sponsors

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01:36:04

Welcome back to iron sharpens iron radio Our final interview for the day is with pastor

01:36:09

Austin Huggins of Christ Evangel Christian Fellowship in Milton, Florida Here I am once again on the last day of the g3 conference at the

01:36:18

Georgia International Convention Center Atlanta, Georgia and I am so thrilled to have with me for another interview pastor

01:36:28

Austin Huggins of Christ Evangel Christian Fellowship in Milton, Florida And he's also a representative of first love publishing

01:36:37

Which is a ministry in partnership with first love radio which live streams iron sharpens iron radio

01:36:45

Every day, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor

01:36:50

Austin Huggins it's an absolute pleasure brother Chris, thank you for having me and Why don't you tell our listeners something about Christ Evangel Christian Fellowship in Milton, Florida Yeah, absolutely

01:37:03

Christ Evangel Christian Fellowship in Milton, Florida is actually a relatively young and small church plant

01:37:09

We all pretty much began in different directions several of us were

01:37:15

Southern Baptist Convention I myself at the time was an associate pastor at a first Baptist Church in the area and then over time the

01:37:25

Lord kind of brought us together as we began to reform and in the midst of Rick Warren principles the light shows a lot of the

01:37:33

Emergent church things that are quite common going on in that neck of the woods and really throughout the country

01:37:39

Actually served to kind of open our eyes to the need to Really plumb deep and explore biblically.

01:37:46

What was the foundation? We were standing on for what we were doing and where do our convictions come from? It's kind of out of that unanimity here and you know

01:37:55

Paul Washer ten indictments to the modern church that wrecked me as a associate pastor and It wasn't it wasn't too terribly long before it became clear that you know unless the two be agreed.

01:38:06

They can't travel together And So in the Lord's wisdom and using my mentor

01:38:12

Mike Snyder who is the original administrator of Chapel Library? from Mount Zion it wasn't too terribly long before a lot of like -minded brethren came together a few families and We covenanted together

01:38:27

Prescott and You know There is a

01:38:35

Balance that we have to take that is not an easy balance to maintain as people perform people are known to be

01:38:49

People who are passionate for truth and We tend to be meticulous about doctrine

01:38:58

We want to tenaciously Worn against and protect

01:39:08

The flock from Dangerous teaching false teaching at the same time

01:39:17

We may wind up acting as if we are a police force in the body of Christ we can puff ourselves up and Be so concerned about the errors and others that we are have blind spots to things that we are are

01:39:39

Drifting into ourselves might not be theological heresy, but it may be It might be something that we are not doing that Christ commands of us, especially in areas of compassion and love and humility

01:39:59

Or it may be Some practice that we have developed that is unbiblical or whatever the case may be

01:40:06

I mean, isn't this something that we have to be very careful about as we rightly As lights in the world that we are commanded to be a light not only shines forth the truth, but it also exposes those

01:40:24

Heresies in the dark so good Well, yeah, absolutely You know, it's interesting.

01:40:31

I still maintain a few close connections to brethren. I love with all my heart in the

01:40:38

Southern Baptist Convention And there are some real brothers who who love the Lord and they themselves have some blind spots in their areas

01:40:47

Much like I did in the midst of them operating Blind to some things sometimes they get love

01:40:55

I think right better than we do sometimes I Think and I'm not an authoritative voice

01:41:02

Other than just a fellow brother and a saint, but you know when we go into the scripture, you know we find

01:41:08

God gives grace to the humble, but from the proud he's a far -off and there has to Be maintained in us as sensitivity to our own

01:41:17

Propensity to fall their own propensity to make mistakes Or we're not really in a place to really grab a brother by the hand and pull them up you know the difference between the attitude and mind and heart of a father to that of let's say a

01:41:31

Prosecutor or an attorney or light years apart An attorney or a prosecutor can point out the problem, you know

01:41:39

They can go and in a sense bring to light areas that need to be addressed rightfully

01:41:45

Or even condemned rightfully, but a father is going to do something different He's going to come along to his son and he's pointing out

01:41:52

Whatever the problem is specifically for the place that he may make his son a better man that he's going to be able to pull him up and To equip him.

01:42:03

I think we have to take a really strong look at why it is we do what we do Pride has a really tenacious ability to disguise itself and many different masks

01:42:14

We all need grace we all need the Spirit of God we all need to remain small in our own eyes We all need to remain humble at the foot of the cross

01:42:22

Does that detract or take away our responsibility to? Pursue truth to know truth to study the doctrines to study the word and to live in light of them

01:42:31

No, of course not but I want to especially emphasize to what degree do we actually live in light of the truths that we're saying

01:42:39

To love your neighbor as yourself If someone were to came along equally tenacious in the practice of what we do and they point the finger

01:42:47

In those areas of our walks and our personal holiness our character The way we love the way we forgive, you know, is that Christ like all the time?

01:42:58

You know, I don't know if we would stand the same test we put others to What encouraging?

01:43:05

Word can you give us about the way that you have seen? The kingdom

01:43:14

Spreading Right there in Milton, Florida and in your midst some encouraging reports of the lost coming to salvation

01:43:25

Those that have been perhaps Trapped in false religion coming to truth, etc.

01:43:31

What can you tell us about what? The Lord is doing with the Christ Evangelical Christian Fellowship and Milton, Florida.

01:43:39

Yeah, absolutely I would love to You know Our congregation is pretty interesting just because of the the smattering we are and that we kind of represent

01:43:47

Yeah, I could go person to person. We have former Catholic. We have Church of Christ. We have you know the extreme forms of charismatic my wife even was a

01:43:58

You know Bethel NAR type Wow, you know out there. I wish

01:44:03

I could remember the name of the church. It's out in, New Mexico But it was one where you know,

01:44:08

Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland would make regular stops and appearances and that was her her childhood that was what she understood

01:44:16

Christianity to be but in the in the providence of time the Lord kind of As he brought us all together into the same atmosphere and breathing the same air and coming into the same studies the same doctrines

01:44:29

And and saved us at different elements There is this

01:44:36

Excitement in seeing someone who used to be a Gift practicing and yet now they are kosher eating.

01:44:44

There's another woman. I had to do the most unusual pastoral work I've ever had to do I had to show someone that they were no longer under the kosher restrictions

01:44:53

She had fallen into messianic Jewish teachings the need for Torah and yet then turn around and call the person to practical holiness because Their idea and understanding of sanctification was so bound up in the the law and Torah and Ceremonial and dietary kinds of things but the actual heart issues weren't being addressed the actual life lived

01:45:14

You know how this person, you know treats their their family or their friends or their husband how they respond to conviction

01:45:20

And that's it. That was a unique hair to split for someone who in their mind had bound them tightly together

01:45:27

I had a brother who was I'd say

01:45:32

Bible belt dinner on the ground fundamental Baptist and I'm talking about this is my heritage

01:45:38

These are these are my never heard the phrase dinner on the ground Well, you know

01:45:44

It's it's the idea that the whole church is waiting for the pastor to finish the sermon so they can go eat

01:45:50

And the way we kind of sanctify that is we have it right here on the grounds

01:45:55

We're gonna have a church dinner right here on the grounds. So rather than you know Acknowledge that our fellowship has more to do with Feeding ourselves physically sometimes more than it does feeding ourselves spiritually.

01:46:07

We'll just sanctify it. We'll bring it in We'll make it part of it in lieu of The worship and things like that It'd be more of a culture reference.

01:46:16

I think that some of my brethren who come from that environment would definitely recognize you know, but here's a man whose uncle, you know was a preacher himself and Backslid went wayward and died quite likely an apostate and suicide

01:46:33

You know and here's this man looking at his own Christianity looking at the world around him looking what he understands about the

01:46:40

Bible He's violent in his home. He's a sergeant in the Air Force and you know yelling screaming cussing and everything else and You know drinking heavily and I mean that's just his life and then you know along comes

01:46:53

An opportunity to minister truth and to come alongside this brother and after about a year of pouring in One Sunday sermon he came forward and broke in repentance in the past three or four years

01:47:05

I've watched this man not only radically transform into a man that's become very very close to me

01:47:10

But he's gone out on the mission field with me to the Philippines with first love missions Where he could kind of see firsthand a lot of the ministry taking place and the brothers on fire

01:47:21

In the church, you got people previous Church of Christ who you know, baptismal salvation who've come to see the error of that And placing their their faith in Christ totally

01:47:34

You have Different flares and flavors we reach out and do a lot of ministry preaching at a local drug and alcohol rehabilitation center

01:47:43

And that's right up the line with my own testimony. I was a former, you know submarine sailor Yes, I remember during our last interview,

01:47:50

I believe you gave your testimony about to look at these men and to see them steeped in many of the same chains that I'm all too familiar with and to preach

01:48:03

Christ in a way that Challenges and doesn't comfort

01:48:10

Convicts and doesn't necessarily provide a way of escape and then to watch out of that people come to truth in Christ I have a man right now actually who he was a crane operator and He had got addicted to heroin.

01:48:23

He ended up in a bad Deal that that went bad He ended up with bullet holes on his chest laying on his back staring up at the stars bleeding out realizing he's dead

01:48:34

And he cries out for one more chance one more chance. He closes his eyes

01:48:40

Wakes up a few days later in the ER and they said we don't know how you survived And yet still in and out of the system still in and out on drugs and addictions he comes through the program a couple times and I now this brother is clean.

01:48:57

This brother has made a radical transformation the Repentance that was in him the faith in Christ was so evident so obvious you see this hard big man

01:49:08

Dropped to tears and you see him beginning to lead his family in a way that is sacrificial and He's had an opportunity to share his testimony in a few different places and it's been really encouraging to see

01:49:22

Those would probably be a few at least in our neck of the woods well, obviously since first love radio is a major part of the existence of iron sharpens iron radio having been the live -streaming source of iron sharpens iron radio for the last several years

01:49:43

Why don't you tell our listeners about first love and all of the affiliated ministries that are underneath that absolutely underneath that umbrella and You and your specific activities with them.

01:49:56

So first pub first love publications began in oh six We had a missionaries book that we printed, you know,

01:50:03

Pastor Joe Jack, of course And that was coming right off his kitchen table in Northern, California He just as he was able to get a little money print the book

01:50:11

He'd give it away and then by 2000 and you know 15 it was up to 50 different publications coming out of a warehouse

01:50:20

You know with five categories doctrinal devotional apologetic evangelistic pastoral

01:50:27

There's also a long history of mission work That came alongside about 20 years in Nigeria With going back with Pastor Joe all the way back to his family radio days that Began to really take on steam in 2002 when they planted

01:50:44

Sovereign Grace Bible Church in Lagos under Pastor Tony Okoro Which represents one of the only?

01:50:51

genuine Reform Baptist entities who've Continued to persevere in the midst of a climate.

01:51:01

That is almost Entirely and predominantly New Apostolic Reformation in the most ugly extremes of prosperity gospel mixed with an

01:51:12

African eyes dumb Which doctor kind of animism so your pastor is just as much your witch doctors anything else.

01:51:19

It's interesting because I have had Two or three listeners

01:51:28

Fairly faithfully Contacting me from Lagos Nigeria And it was before I met

01:51:35

Pastor Joe, and then it turned out that these individuals knew or know

01:51:41

Pastor Joe in first love because of the missionary work that he does yeah, that's right actually I think one of your the guys who writes in a lot is brother

01:51:48

Osi yes, and and he listens to your show a lot, so if he hears this he's gonna hear his name

01:51:53

But he was actually just laid on hands and ordained as one of the newest elders in that church great

01:52:01

Praise God. Yes, that's really exciting along with Pastor Osagie But so that would be the history of where kind of the missions began and where the publications began today

01:52:12

We've been able to do some work in India. We're still in Nigeria still working through that church

01:52:17

And is as well as some of the other plants that have come off of it up in Abuja in lucky and some other places

01:52:25

We're also in Kenya the pastor maroon gang wedded of Trinity Baptist Church. We're in the

01:52:30

Philippines pastor Leo And so the missions organization is essentially an extension of the publications

01:52:38

With with an arm towards pushing back Against the false Gospels the heresies the things that run rampant in these third world areas where that these faithful Pastors see these things flying around they don't necessarily have the funds or the horsepower to stand up and React against that the way they would like to on a scale

01:52:59

They would like to so obviously as you know there's a there's a radio element into this ministry, which goes all the way back to Pastor Joe's days on family radio a lot of the training he got there and him passing that along to some of us

01:53:12

Especially me on the mission side so one of the things we do is when we first arrive on scene We'll come and we'll address the false doctrines on live local radio

01:53:22

We'll get in the most public forum we can possibly do and then we'll essentially throw bombs

01:53:27

We'll address the heresies head -on in a big way, and then we invite call -ins from the local community right there

01:53:32

So you'll get these very agitated Local pastors you know whose ground we're stepping into Who will call us and say you can't say that don't you know if you don't pay the tithe you're going to hell and they?

01:53:45

Have to say that because they need to protect you know their their their income and the theology that holds it up And we'll lay scripture on top of it.

01:53:52

We'll say well. Here's what the scripture says Here's what the word says and that's going out over people's car stereos and overseas especially in the third world radio is still a

01:54:00

Primary means of communication so that reaches far and wide and in a dense city like Lagos you can hit a million people

01:54:09

Then we invite them out to the conference because what better time when you have everyone's attention at that point They'll come out to the conference, and then we will

01:54:18

Lay a thick blanket of good doctrinal teaching guys like dr. Dal core comes

01:54:24

Eddie Delmar he's been in this program. He's been with us to the Philippines several years running guys like pastor

01:54:31

Joe and Myself and several others that are tied in close with first love pastor

01:54:37

Tom Smith And then when we're done we take these publications, and we give them away by the thousands for free

01:54:45

And that's probably the part of the ministry that I also enjoy Probably the most so you have this faithful pastor

01:54:53

If you were to get a book one book from the states you pay the ten fifteen dollars And then you got to put on like thirty thirty five dollars to get it over the pond so almost fifty dollars

01:55:04

That's about a month's pay for a third world pastor So to be able to come in and give away in the thousands not just to the shepherds

01:55:10

But also to the church members and whoever comes to the conference as my Nigerian brother once told me Nothing in Nigeria is free.

01:55:18

You know so we get to make a statement. We get to come in and say look We're not trying to Fleece the sheep.

01:55:24

We're not we're not coming here for any gain And there's really no area of our ministry where we make money or even recoup losses

01:55:30

It's a faith ministry So we don't even we don't even ask people for money on the on the missions and publications side of things

01:55:39

And it's really neat to see how the Lord provides and sustains so the books continue to teach long after we've left

01:55:47

And as the Lord continues to provide we print books We do the mission work and in these places.

01:55:53

We also have first love radio, which obviously you're quite familiar with Because you're our anchor program, and you're

01:56:03

Internet wise anyway, that's where people go if they want to listen to you well,

01:56:08

I want you to just Summarize what you want most etched on the hearts and minds of our listeners today

01:56:14

And please also make sure you give the contact information the Christ Evangelical Christian Fellowship in Milton Florida and also first love

01:56:24

Yeah, absolutely again, I'm a Not any major voice.

01:56:30

I work with first love. I'm a Young pastor again Christ Evangelical Christian Fellowship I'm I have the pleasure of being the acting director of the first love missions and the vice president of operations overall

01:56:44

I get to work with some very godly and spiritual men and dear brothers who are very very close to me and close to my family

01:56:51

And I'm blessed to be able to be a part of something that Essentially matters

01:56:59

We have one life to live I'm not promised tomorrow. You know I lost my mother at 44.

01:57:05

She lost her mom at 45 To cancer and heart attacks and everything so yeah,

01:57:11

I don't have a thyroid. I'm disabled a little bit from my military service But I don't know what tomorrow is

01:57:18

I don't know what it's gonna look like the next time I go to Nigeria I don't know, but I know that That I'm not the man

01:57:24

I used to be I know that this is the only good news That this world needs to hear

01:57:31

There is a truth that we can go to the hardest criminal with we can go to the most raging alcoholic the most militant atheist the most devout

01:57:40

Hindu or Muslim we can hold high this gospel regardless of where we go and because God is sovereign he's

01:57:47

Foreordained and promised that his people are gonna come out when they hear his voice We can go with a tremendous amount of confidence in the areas that other people would think you're crazy for walking into And if I could just you know share with you know those who are listening be encouraged

01:58:01

This is worth losing everything for Christ and him crucified Amen and the contact information again for both your church and first love if you would like to get a hold of us here at first love you can go to First love missions comm we've got a new web store coming up and for those who've been wanting to see the

01:58:19

First love publications web store open it is now open From there you can get to the publications the missions you can go to first love radio

01:58:27

Directly if you'd like at first love radio dot o RG Place 24 7 and if you're interested in getting in contact with me or with the church you can go to Christ evangel

01:58:40

Org you'll have all the contact information there again. That is Christ evangel dot o

01:58:45

RG and we are hoping to have an interview and The not so distant future with some even more wonderful news from pastor

01:58:54

Joe Jackowitz More wonderful news. I should say then his last interview which did indeed have

01:59:05

Some encouraging words involved a man's even more Wonderful reports that I don't want to spoil until Joe is on the program again this interview might even air after that because my webmaster has to create a broadcast ready a program from all these interviews at the g3 conference, but Keep your eyes and ears open for that interview and once again

01:59:34

Pastor Huggins, so he's such a great honor and privilege to have you on the program Well, god bless you Chris and thank you for taking the time.

01:59:40

I appreciate it. God bless. Thank you I hope you have enjoyed today's interviews And if you have please remember to share them on social media with your friends and family and as Chris Arnson always says

01:59:52

I hope that you remember for the rest of your lives The Jesus Christ is a far far greater