Luke Abendroth Interview 2017 (Part 1)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.�

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and in real time, it is

December 31st, 2016. But in NOCO time, what, it happens to be like January 15th or something?

Oh, I�m talking to someone in the studio, and it�s not the Tuesday guy. It is the Saturday man,

Luke Abendroth. Luke, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Thank you. Thank you. Now, I usually tell guests ahead of time, when

I ask you questions or I give little hints, it�s time for you to talk, because they hear me all the time, and they only have heard you probably four times.

That�s why you got to do the open -ended questions, so it�s not even possible to say yes or just no. That�s right. All right. So, introduce yourself.

Some of our listeners are newer, and they maybe have not listened to all the shows. Shame on them, by the way.

They didn�t get their plenary indulgences because they didn�t listen to all the shows. Tetzel. So, what�s going on with you?

Who are you? My name is Luke Abendroth. I am 20 years old. I am the son of the famous Mike Abendroth.

There�s the infamous Michael Abendroth, Michelle Abendroth, Mitchell Abendroth, but then there�s

Mike Abendroth, too. The alter -ego. Yeah, I�m home from the Master�s University for a couple of weeks here in Massachusetts and just hanging out with the family and relaxing, and maybe we�ll go snowboarding sometime.

Oh, that sounds good. What do you like to do when you come home? Is there a special meal that your mother makes that you really want, or what�s your favorite thing to eat?

Frozen chicken. I don�t know. That�s all I�ve been eating the last couple of days, some kind of rolled up in the provolone pastrami.

Oh, yes. That�s right. Well, you know how to do that. You know how to make eggs, too, right? You can do the eggs. That�s right.

Runny eggs on top of the toast. So before we talk a little bit about ministry, last year, well, you know, in real time last year, in NOCO time, who knows when, you worked on a barge in Alaska for part of the summer.

Tell our listeners about what happened with that. Yeah, so this summer I went up to Bristol Bay, Alaska and worked in the salmon fishing industry for like a guy that kind of is connected to masters.

His son went to masters, and he likes to hire masters guys, and so just worked up there on a net barge.

So basically what we would do is, like fishermen in Alaska, they use different sized nets, and it�s a lot easier to pull up to a barge, which is like a big floating piece of steel in the middle of the water, than it is to go to the dock.

So then we had a crane, and we would just store all their nets and just crane them over. It�s like, it sounds cool, but it�s a super easy job, and I mean, you make pretty good money, but it�s not really that cool.

So you had a Bible with you. I mean, anything interestingly go through your mind, or something you studied, or anything devotional?

I mean, what do you do when you�re just on a barge all day, every day, and hardly anybody�s around? Well, this is not as devotional, but my goal was to try to read

War and Peace in seven days. I read it in longer than that, because my buddy had read it in eight days, but then, so I had to read a hundred pages a day, and then some other stuff happened with work, and I had to travel all across the bay, 15 hours in the middle, and stuff, but yeah,

I just read a lot. What did I read? Well, I read The Whole Christ earlier that summer. We talked about that book a lot.

It�s a really good book. Sinclair Ferguson. Sinclair Ferguson. I think it�s one of my favorite books of all time. Actually, I said,

Luke, that was the NoCo Radio�s favorite book of 2016, The Whole Christ.

Whoa! Look at that. A bunch of snow just came down off the roof, out the window from the studio, so.

This is a pretty fancy studio, by the way. Yeah, it�s nice. Luke, sometimes I�ll tell the audience what

I see outside, and there were a bunch of turkeys, like 40 turkeys the other day. I�ve seen deer run across there.

That one time I saw, I think it was a mixture between a hyena and a werewolf. I wasn�t quite sure. A liger.

A liger. So, what else? Okay, so The Whole Christ. We�ll talk about that book in a second, but what about, what else did you do or read?

I�m trying to think about what I read. I know I read a lot of random stuff, but I�m trying to think about what I read. I tried to start that book that John MacArthur loved,

The Existence and Attributes of God by Charnock, but I got a little bogged down in that one, so maybe a little bit later

I�ll try that one. I read, I know I read, I�ll just talk about what I read this summer. I read The Bruised Reed by Richard Sibbes.

I really like that book. I�m trying to think. On the spot, I can�t think of what else I read.

All right. A bunch of Louis L 'Amour books. Luke loved reading

Louis L 'Amour when he was younger, and Louis has a way of painting word pictures. I used to call you book a day, because you�d read one a day.

Yeah, well, those books are like 200 pages, so they�re tiny. No, I did read the Here I Stand by,

I don�t know how to say his name, Roland Bainton. Roland Bainton, yes. That was awesome. I hope the book that he wrote,

Women of the Reformation, is as good. I just got that in the mail. Kim and I and the kids should be in Europe next year, which is 2017 when this airs, for the

Reformation Conference, and then do a little travel. By the way, if you want to go with us, it�s Living Passages that just flies up the roof.

The way this roof is built, wow. You don�t want to be under that. Livingpassages .com,

you can go there and sign up under the Mike Ebendroff tour to Geneva and Wittenberg and Zurich.

I got Women of the Reformation for Kim and the girls, and it looks good. It looks like it�s an excellent book.

Did you try to read a bunch of the New Testament? What was your reading program for that while you were on the badge? What was

I doing then? I think I might have been doing the Horner reading plan for a little bit. Oh, that�s right. Then I would just read random stuff all the time.

Just read all day. Tell the listeners about the Grant Horner reading program. There�s lots of ways to read through the

Bible, and you can just go chapter after chapter. You can read a little bit of the New Testament and the Old Testament. But his program is a little different.

Was he a master�s prof or what�s that? Yeah, he is now. He�s an English prophet master. It�s like basically there�s 10 different lists.

The lists are like Genesis through Deuteronomy, like five books of Moses, and then like the prophets and Joshua, Judges, Ruth.

So each list is like three different books. And then basically what you do is you read through one chapter on each of the 10 lists a day.

So you read 10 chapters a day, and they�re from like random parts of the Bible. And then you basically just keep reading through it. I don�t know. It�s not my favorite thing, so maybe

I shouldn�t be selling it on here. Well, it�s just another approach. I mean you can go the McShane route. Probably if you have a study

Bible, you can just check off the list there and work through it, reading through the

Bible. I always remember SOS Johnson Luke, and he�d say, �Well, it�s the second time through this year.� And he would kind of brag a little bit as he would preach.

Martha and I are going through the Bible again. It is important though in our day and age, we have all kinds of media and we have all kinds of sermons and everything else.

But to just sit down and read the Bible, it�s important. That means it�s time for you to make a comment.

I�ve shaken my head. Yeah, that�s right. It�s important. All right. Let�s talk about the whole Christ a little bit,

Sinclair Ferguson. His newer book is Devoted to God, I believe. Let�s talk about the whole

Christ. I know we don�t have the book in front of us to have a bunch of quotes or anything like that. But just generally, what struck you about the book?

Well, I just think he does a really good job. I mean I�ve been looking some of the last couple of days at all that, you know, the sanctification debate and stuff with, you know, when

Tulian was still a pastor and Tulian Chevechian and Kevin DeYoung and all those guys and just kind of all the issues in that.

And I think it�s just a really good biblical view of sanctification and just all those issues of assurance and legalism and antinomianism.

I think that�s the subtitle, assurance, legalism, and antinomianism or something, and the marrow controversy. And so I just think it was really helpful for me because, you know, even reading the

Here I Stand book this summer, not to the same extent, but Martin Luther, he�d say stuff. I don�t even know if he�s a believer at the time, but, you know, one day

I see Christ as like, you know, the glorious Savior who saved me from my sins. And then the next day it�s like he�s the judge that�s hunting me down, all this stuff, you know, where he kind of just swings back and forth.

And just his personality was very, like, just kind of naturally struggle with doubt and assurance,

I think, especially in the beginning. And I think just I do the same thing and struggle with the same issues.

So it was helpful, just a helpful book talking about assurance and finding your assurance in Christ and just the balance between, like, just the whole motivation for our obedience being the gospel and stuff like that.

So there�s one part I really like where he talks about, you know, the garden. In the garden, there�s Adam and Eve are in the garden, and they have, you know, all these blessings from God.

They get to walk with God in the cool of the day. They have each other. There�s no sin.

They have a job to do to name all the animals in the garden. There�s just perfect fellowship, and they just have every blessing that they could have from God.

Well, obviously, they don�t have redemption, but they have everything with God. And then

Satan comes along, and he gets them to interpret what

Sinclair talks about. He gets them to interpret or to change their view of God, not based off what

God has told them and based off what they know about God from what he�s revealed to them, but off of what they hear in the law, off of, you know,

God�s negative aspect of the law. Because there�s even a positive aspect. Go, you know, eat of all the other trees.

It�s not just don�t eat of this one tree. It�s go eat the other trees. Enjoy the other trees. But Satan then twists them and gets them to focus on the negative aspect of the law and then interpret, based off of that, their view of God as restrictive and almost like kind of wanting to ruin their fun rather than wanting what�s best for them.

And then, you know, and then they just�once they see God in that legal spirit in that way that they have to�if they want to eat anything from God, they have to earn it.

Then that makes them go, you know, I don�t even want to earn it from God. I�m just going to sin. I�m just going to break the law. He eats it first and gives it to Adam and so�and then there�s the fall and that�s where we are.

So it�s just really good, I think, helpful for our obedience too, you know, rather than interpreting your view of God based off of what he tells you you can�t do and, you know, all those kinds of things.

Just what does the Bible say about who God is? He�s steadfast love endures forever. He removes our sins as far as the east is from the west.

He gives you every spiritual blessing in Christ. He gives you Jesus, the ultimate blessing and the source of all that.

And so then in light of that, doesn�t that make you want to respond with obedience rather than, like, I got to somehow have some weird mix of obedience and faith to make sure

I have assurance. So I think it�s just helpful for me. Sorry to kind of launch, but with the assurance�just with assurance in general rather than always constantly turning inward, which 1

John, you know, does talk about you can look at your life as a testimony to what

God�s done in you. But also just looking at things like the promises of God where he says, �Anyone who comes to me,

I will no wise cast out. Jesus is able to save to the uttermost all those who draw near to him.� And just constantly over and over there�s a free offer of the gospel.

And so I just�it was just helpful for me to see that and finding assurance not just in my performance but in Christ.

Luke Abendroth here in the studio talking to me. Mike Abendroth, a proud father.

Can you be proud as a dad? There�s probably a sinful pride and a good pride, right? Paul is proud of churches, certain churches.

Well, the fun part for me is Luke�s in town and it�s like, okay, Luke, let�s go record some shows. We�ll figure out what to talk about once we�re in the studio.

So that was a good launch there. I appreciate it. That was vintage, no co -launching. Luke, without the book in front of me,

I particularly liked his section about assurance, but I also like the response to the gospel.

So if the gospel is the good news of what Jesus Christ has done, the sent one, you know, for the

Father�s glory, for our good, he lives and dies and is raised from the dead, et cetera.

So what�s the response? And I think there�s so much carnal living in the world and even in evangelicalism that lots of people want to use the word repentance.

And I think that�s good. There�s nothing wrong with telling people to repent. But it�s almost like, you know, if you get up and preach the gospel and say, here�s the response to the gospel, it�s believe.

Then there�s a certain segment of evangelicalism that says, well, you know, you didn�t say repent. Repentance is gone.

Where�s repentance? But Sinclair, interestingly, has in the book, sometimes in Acts, you�ll see people calling those other people, nonbelievers, to believe.

And it says, the text then says they repented. Or if you tell them to repent, the text says they believe.

I particularly like that. It�s good. I mean, I often say, Luke, repent and believe. But if you only say repent or if you only say believe,

I think you�re going to be okay, right? Well, yeah, and, you know, I remember that part in the book. And he talks about, you know, the repentance and belief is not two different, like, steps.

You know, you believe and then you repent and then you�re saved. It�s just the two sides of the same coin. So, you know, we�ve talked about this before.

But what I tell people now, you know, if I preach the gospel to someone, you say, hey, I think this is the same thing.

Repentance is, and repenting and believing is, you�re not trusting in yourself for salvation, but now you�re trusting in Christ.

The word literally means to change your mind. So it�s you�re changing your mind about your sin.

You�re not trusting in yourself. You�re trusting in Christ for salvation. So it�s funny because I think growing up in certain circles, and, you know, we�ve talked about this before too.

You feel like you have to almost, like, qualify. Here�s the good news of the gospel, the free offer of the gospel, like Isaiah 55.

Come buy and eat without money, without price. You know, Jesus says, �Come unto me all who are weary.

I�ll give you rest.� And all this stuff. And then make sure, yeah, also you got to really feel sorry for your sin before you can come to Christ.

And you need to make sure you turn from everything that dishonors God in every area of your life instantly. It�s like, well�

How�s that going for you? Yeah, exactly. I�m not saved. You�re constantly discovering things in your life that you need to repent from and that you�re not submitting to the

Lord. And then you do submit. But it�s just kind of this idea, almost like an unbiblical definition of repentance where it really just means to change your mind.

It�s like the way he describes it. It�s two sides of the same coin. You repent and believe. You stop trusting in yourself.

And now you�re starting to trust in Christ. And I think, you know, even just when I tell people that still, now

I�m kind of just like, man, it�s weird. It�s almost like weird to just say to somebody, hey, you need to believe that Jesus can save you from your sins and you�ll be saved.

Don�t believe in yourself. And it�s like, I need to say something else. It�s not that easy. But I think he talks about how when

Thomas Boston started to work through some of these issues, people noticed a new tincture. T -I -N -C -T -U -R -E.

Tincture. It�s a Scottish word or something. In his preaching, people noticed that. It�s a new kind of free offer of the gospel.

And one of the things I really love about Sinclair Ferguson is not only in the whole Christ but just in all his sermons.

I started the Devoted to God book. He uses the language of the New Testament. And I think

I�ve heard him say this. I�m not sure. Maybe I�m just thinking it. But one of the warnings that you can give is your theology and your orthodox theology and reformed theology.

If that makes you unable to use the language of the New Testament and just tell somebody to believe the gospel, then there�s a big issue.

So when you somehow now are above the language of the New Testament where Paul can just say or Peter can just say believe and they repented or he can say repent and they believe.

And you can just say this is Jesus rose again from the dead. I think it just gets too bogged down where we get away from the language of the

New Testament because almost like we have a new revelation that Paul or Peter or the author of the gospel didn�t have.

Interesting, Luke. When I talk to people, I�m sure you would say to me, oh, dad, there�s nothing wrong with if you say to someone, now this is what belief is.

It�s not just intellectual belief because James 2 says demons believe and tremble. It�s not just emotional because they shudder.

It�s not just an assent to and, of course, the reformers would talk about knowledge, assent, and trust.

If we tell people that, fine, especially as we�re discussing certain things with them.

But if you�re preaching the gospel and you just say believe, I think the Holy Spirit can use that word, that command to believe and use it in the person�s life as they hear the response to the gospel.

And then our given saving faith and so there�s nothing wrong with it. And even with Acts 16 where Peter says believe unto the

Lord Jesus Christ. It�s like, you know, it�s this with the saving faith. It�s not just intellectual faith.

So I think I, on one hand, I totally agree with you. Let�s use the

New Testament and on the flip side, if people want to sit down and say, well, you know, I grew up Southern Baptist and I do believe and they�re living with their girlfriend.

There�s a � saving faith is a little bit different. Yeah, I was just looking at James 2 this morning, and it�s just –

I mean it�s almost like you get the language and it�s like, would you say that Abraham is justified by works because he offered up his son to Isaac?

And it actually says that phrase justified by works, and you�re kind of like, well, what? But yeah, of course, and I think you can look at it.

There�s kind of two different ways that – I don�t know. Of course we�re just talking now and there�s no censorship. But there are two different ways that I think

I could look at it too where I think about union with Christ, which is another thing that the book talks about a lot.

We�re going back to the whole Christ book where people want to say – in Calvin, I think he said people tear

Christ asunder when they don�t want him as Lord and Savior because you can�t be united to Christ in death and he pays for your sins and you�re dead.

And he pays for them and then you�re not united to Christ in his resurrection and then now you have – you�re a new creation and you live a life that the evidence of your saving faith is your works.

But it�s just – I think sometimes you can make the evidence of the saving faith like equal with the saving – like equal with the faith in the beginning.

Like somehow the evidence is what you need to – like what you need to preach to people. Right. How much evidence is needed, to what degree, all those kind of things.

Luke, as you were saying that, I was considering Galatians and in – before I really understood all this with preaching the gospel to yourself but this gospel that saves is a gospel,

Titus 2, that transforms, right? I think in the sanctification debate, maybe that was forgotten about because there was so much stress on the transforming work of the gospel that the other folks came along and said, no, preach the gospel to yourself.

That�s the emphasis. But both are there and in the book Merrill Controversy – sorry, the whole

Christ, he talks about it. Before I understood this, I�d read Galatians when

I had no assurance. And you know, I�d sin or do something or responding to trials wrongly.

And I�d always think of chapter 1, verse 4, speaking of the Lord Jesus who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age according to the will of our

God and Father to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen. And I would work through Galatians and think, okay, anything added to the gospel turns the gospel into works and therefore would receive not only

Paul�s anathema but God�s anathema. And so my good works and my performance, it doesn�t contribute at all to my salvation.

I know it�s a response and stems out of. But I would say to myself, right now,

Mike, are you trusting only in this Jesus who delivers from death and hell and sin and everything else?

And I�d think, you know what? I do. I�m believing right now and so Galatians really helped me. Contra, 1

John chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, we�d read that these are the test of saving faith. And are you confessing sin?

Are you confessing Jesus? Are you loving the word? Are you loving not the world?

Are you loving your neighbor? And you�re like, oh, to what degree? Maybe a little. And don�t you think,

Luke, we forget 1 John 2, 1 and 2 where if you are going to give the test of saving faith in 1

John, maybe we should start off with you�ve got an advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous. Yeah, yeah.

Any other comments about that? Well, I mean, also, I mean, you just keep going. I mean, the same thing is to, you know, like another way to look at it too with the way that the gospel transforms if you think people have forgotten that sanctification debate.

Every person whom God the Father chooses in eternity past and the

Son saves, the Spirit is going to sanctify and is justified, declared righteous.

And then now they�re becoming righteous. And I was reading somebody talking about even the thief on the cross, you know, he confesses

Jesus as Lord. He wants to tell the other thief, you know, stop doing that.

Even that thief on the cross right before he died, he�s on his deathbed, and he�s already showing a transforming power in his life of the gospel.

Or not of the gospel, but of Jesus in his life. So I think it�s interesting, and going back to what you were just saying a second ago,

I think there�s kind of three different ways to look at to find assurance.

And of course, you know, it is true. If you look through 1 John, and you can look at your life and say this is a testimony that I couldn�t have done this on my own.

But at the same time, there�s also the witness of the Holy Spirit in your life where Romans talks about or in you.

And then there�s also God�s promises where you see the all and the everyone in the offers of the gospel.

You can rest in those promises. And I think that was something that was really lacking whenever I would say, you know, if I ever said to someone

I�m struggling with assurance. It�s basically, you know, I think there�s those three, and one of them you can�t really help somebody else with, the internal witness of the

Holy Spirit. But like works, that was the only thing I would hear, you know, almost.

It�s like, okay, well, you�re not. Are you sinning? Are you doing this? Whatever, rather than looking at God�s promises, which

I think is really helpful. Luke, when I consider David Brainerd�s biography, you know,

Edwards got a hold of his biography and then edited it and abridged it and put it together.

And so in the old days, I would read that and think, you know what? It smokes me because there�s no way

I live up to this, you know, 29 -year -old kid, young man. This is not helping me.

And then now as I see, of course, Edwards has written some great things. But if I look at his early, you know, resolutions that he wrote when he was,

I don�t know, 17, 19, something like that, I think he updated them when he was younger as well. You�re thinking, man, it�s a lot of law, or as we say here in New England, so it�s a lot of law.

And when I read Brainerd, it doesn�t help me. It�s like Edwards took out all the super convicting kind of work stuff.

And I know there are some of Brainerd�s biography that talks about the loveliness of Christ and everything, but it�s like, yikes.

So I like, as the show is wrapping up now, this first show, we�ll record another one. You will do well, listener, if you read

Ferguson�s Whole Christ because he will give you the discussion about sin and the riches found in Christ Jesus.

I noticed Edwards� excuse me, Ferguson preaching a sermon. Why are

Reformed pastors talking so much about sin and they don�t talk to an equal degree about who the

Lord Jesus is and his mercy and compassion? And for years, I think I would�

I think I needed Ferguson to get after me. I know, and I think he� one more thing I think he evidenced. He said that an evidence of that was just to ask people how many people have read

John Owens� The Mortification of Sin before and haven�t read

John Owens� The Glory of Christ. And just to be clear, I haven�t read either one yet, but I have The Glory of Christ on my desk.

Luke Abendroth on No Compromise Radio. Thanks, Luke. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible -teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God�s Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

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