Should Christians Support Immigration for Muslim Refugees | Rapp Report 001 | Andrew Rappaport | SFE | Striving for Eternity

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Should we as Christians be supporting Muslim Refugees to come in as immigrants to this country
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Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rap report where we provide biblical interpretations and applications
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This is a ministry of striving for eternity For more content or to request a speaker or seminar for your church go to striving for eternity
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Well, welcome to another edition of the rap report we're gonna deal with something that well
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It might be a little bit more controversial than many of us Want to deal with but the question that we have for us today is the question should we as Christians?
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Be supporting the Muslim refugees into this country. Now. This is why I think this is an interesting issue
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Because of two reasons, I think many Christians have been so focused on Nationalism and the u .s.
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That they're the immediate knee -jerk reaction is no, they should not
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Why should they not because they are going to ruin our country? they're gonna come in and try to take over our country because Islam is as much as a religious system.
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It is also a political system and people have that fear But then if that's the case
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Should we be supporting Christians in Muslim countries to be? You know overthrowing the government because somehow the government needs to be non -muslim.
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Is that the answer? Really? What I think the issue is is do we as Christians?
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Especially those of us who say we believe in the sovereignty of God Do we believe it and you see this in so many areas with people that say they believe that God is sovereign and then they
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Don't trust him and I think this is one of those areas. This is an area where I think
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Very often we see Christians that say well, I trust God. He's sovereign He's gonna do what he's gonna do, but then we get all political about things like Immigration now, this is something that I'm I'm saying that this is a change that I've come to I was very much against well,
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I'm still very much against illegal immigration because that word e Legal, it's funny people don't get that like, you know
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They talk about whether illegal aliens are doing things to break laws in the country after they're already here illegally
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Yes by definition an illegal alien Someone who's here illegally is by definition breaking the law
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So, yes, I expect that people that are willing to break the law to get in the country will probably be willing to break other
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Laws, I mean seriously, but so the fact is Romans 13 I would turn to and say well if you're here illegally and we had this actually in in a church where I was in We had a guy from Indonesia.
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He was in the church a believer and We in the leadership didn't know he was here illegally and that came to light
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And we realized he actually had a wife and kids back in Indonesia and we had to say look
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You need to return home. You're here illegally Romans 13 You need to obey the laws being in America is not something that's depriving you of worshiping
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God so I still support the Fact that immigration should be for people that follow the laws legally getting in here
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But refugees there's a different issue because they are coming in legally so should we as Christians be supporting this and Our knee -jerk reaction for many of us is no because we realize what it could do to the country we understand that I mean look most of these immigrants that have been coming in are males of the the military age, you know
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You don't see the families that you typically would see with with refugees. You don't see the children
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That's a concern. What really concerns me is you don't see the Christians I mean the Christians are the ones being persecuted in these countries and they're not the ones who we see coming in and That's a concern however
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The two things I look at is one do we believe that God is sovereign? I mean if God wants
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America and and think about this just take a step back and think about this if God wanted
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America to become a Muslim nation. Are you okay with that Christian? I Mean we want to say yes
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But if we're gonna be honest, I mean some of us are saying no in our heart, right?
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We we want to say yes, because God's sovereign we're gonna do it But we don't want America to be a
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Muslim nation. We want it to be a democracy We want it to be capitalism. We want to be a
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Christian nation. We want to be what how it was founded Well, it's not staying that way right so so how do we respond
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There's plenty of Christians around the world that suffer Persecution or have to live in a nation.
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That is not democracy. That's not Capitalism it's it's under Islamic law
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Should they be trying to overthrow it or should they be Romans 13 submitting to that government as best they can
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Where it doesn't cause them to violate scripture That's a question.
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We we think we know the answer to that one, right? So but as Americans we are we're raised with this idea of individualism and That we should have our rights and the idea of losing those rights
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Kind of bothers us and yet we are losing those rights anyway in different slow Degree degree slow decay.
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We are losing those rights and Should we as Christians be saying no, we shouldn't allow
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Muslim refugees in in fact Here's gonna be my case that I'm gonna make with you today.
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I believe And this is the change in position. I've had I believe we should not only
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Have the refugees and Muslim refugees coming in. I think we as Christians should support it
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Now before you turn this off Listen to the argument. Okay, first off Christians You and I are not here
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Because America is our home. In fact, this is what Peter says in first Peter chapter 2 verse 11
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Beloved I urge you as sojourners and exiles to Abstain from Passions of the flesh which war against your soul
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Keep your conduct among the Gentiles Honorable so that when they speak against you as evil doers they may see your good deeds and glorify
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God on the day of visitation be subject for the
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Lord's sake to every human Institution whether it be to the
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Emperor as Supreme or to the governor's Sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise
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Those who do good for this is the will of God that by doing good
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You should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people Live as people who are free not using your freedom as a cover -up for evil
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But living as servants of God honoring one another Love the
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Brotherhood Fear God honor the Emperor Peter is saying that for these people who were being persecuted by the
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Emperor That they should honor them. They should obey the authorities
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This is something that in American mindset is just not what we're used to We're not used to the idea of Not really of having a king rule over us type of thing and and here
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Peter is saying we are sojourners This is not our home
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America is not our home. Earth is not our home as Christians we have a
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Citizenship in heaven, that's our home That's what we fight for that's where we live for that's where we desire to be
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We're passing through as it says here. We're sojourners. We're just passing through as exiles of this world
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That should be our mindset So what becomes more important is it more important that we save America?
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I mean be watching that Fox News for quite frankly I think way too many
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Christians are spending time watching Fox News and Not understanding the good news
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This is the problem we have in America. We have way too many Christians who are not getting into God's book
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They're not putting their face on the ground before God in prayer, but they're making sure they're on Facebook Maybe we should forgo
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Facebook and get on our face before God and get into his book because the reality is is that what we end up seeing is that We have in American Christianity a large number of Christians that can't handle the thought that we
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Might be concerned with something greater than America We might give lip service to Christ, but in reality
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Here's where the rubber is gonna meet the road Would you be willing? Would I be willing to Start making changes to try to seek out the
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Muslims that may be in our areas those refugees and reach out to them Here's why you know these countries they're coming from They don't have the gospel proclaimed in the streets.
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They don't have the gospel proclaimed in the airwaves. In fact Christianity it is illegal for a
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Christian to share the gospel in many of these countries That could get them killed
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Now many do that and yes We hear the reports of people having dreams and visions and people's coming to Christ from those things
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Can't speak to that don't know enough about it. I've heard the same reports many of you have but God may be doing that God may be bringing them in visions and dreams
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But here's the thing God may also be bringing them to America where there's a bunch of Christians that need to get off their
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Their bottoms and get out there and start reaching to the Muslim community the instead of being afraid of them and Worried about what they may do and say and how they may affect
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America So what? This is not our home
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Christian This is where we sojourn. This is where we pass through waiting to be with our
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King in glory and What he would have us do is not worry about how we can make
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America great again Sorry, Donald Trump. That's not the goal you claim to be a
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Christian You should know better. It's not I mean we want a great America fine
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But as Christians it is about making Christ known to these
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Muslims who don't have Christ being proclaimed in their country Maybe God is bringing them here so that you could reach out to them and So I actually think we as Christians should be encouraging
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Muslim refugees that are not terrorists are not looking to violate our laws not looking to do harm to people but people who are trying to escape the oppression of their country and they want to make a better life here and What are most
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Christians doing we're we're giving them the idea that we're afraid of them that we don't like them that we want them gone
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Instead of saying Welcome, come let us share the good news with you that you don't know
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Let us talk to you about Jesus Christ not the Christ that's mentioned in the
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Quran But the Christ that's mentioned in the Bible these people
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These many many refugees that are trying to truly escape oppression are coming here
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It's an opportunity for us to be able to minister to them to share the good news with them
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Now granted I live in New York or in the New York area. I get to meet many Muslims I get to talk to many of them one of the things
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I think we're gonna start trying to do here is Maybe take some of the arguments that they make because the reality for many
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Christians They don't they don't listen to Muslim YouTube channels and Muslim teaching
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I do and what I find in that is that they have a gross misunderstanding of Christianity and Because they are speaking in their own echo chamber.
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They only speak to other Muslims they don't get a view of proper
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Christianity and We as Christians need to correct that we as Christians need to not only explain what
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Christianity properly is But show why Christianity is something that they should believe
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Because if they're going to ever have the forgiveness of sin, you're not gonna find it in Islam. We find the forgiveness of sin in Christ They don't know that That's what we need to encourage them
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That's what we need to communicate to them, which means if we're gonna encourage them coming into this country
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We better be trying to reach out to them now I I I know that some of you may be saying as I was speaking earlier with with Vincent and and he's like but but You know,
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I don't know Muslim communities in my area in the Deep South, you know where they all say y 'all
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Actually down there. They say all y 'all right, so but the reality is
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We need to look for areas that we can reach out in whichever way we can maybe there's not
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Muslims in your neighborhood Maybe there's not a mosque in your neighborhood but maybe
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Excuse me. Maybe there may not be that mosque But the question is is there?
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Something you could do to reach out to Muslims. Do you have a computer?
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Are you are you online? do you have the means of getting on and using
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YouTube using podcasts to target to Muslims to try to reach out to Muslims and Communicate the truth to them simple question
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We could use the technology and sit in the luxury of our own homes and still communicate
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Messages by making it directed toward some of these Muslims Because the reality is and maybe there's some
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Muslims who are listening to this maybe there's some Muslims who because Of the the title of this are gonna say well, you know what?
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Maybe I'm gonna listen to that Well, if you're listening and you're a Muslim Let me communicate something to you because I took for granted them speaking to Christians and maybe some of you are saying no
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No, no, what do you mean only within Christ? We have forgiveness You know, one of the things we have to understand is that it within Islam they would speak of God they would call him
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Allah. They would speak of Allah as being most merciful and What you end up seeing in that is that they're saying that Allah is most merciful, but here's the thing
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You have to have choose in every religion. You have to choose between mercy or Justice you can't have both.
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You see they're mutually exclusive If if Vincent here was to do something against me
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He he says something or does something that would be an offense to me and there's a proper punishment for it.
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I Could do one of two things. I could meet that meet out that punishment or I Could forgive him
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I could show mercy but I can't show both you see Justice means that the punishment is going to be paid to the full extent
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Mercy means you're letting go of that punishment So you can't have both you could say
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Allah is most merciful But you can't say he's then just and I know many Muslims say but God is just but how within your system
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Can you have mercy and justice if Allah is just giving it at his own at his own whim really?
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I mean you can't know how Allah will show this mercy But you see in Christianity one of the unique things that separates
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Christianity from all other religions. What makes it unique is that mercy and Justice are resolved at the cross.
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You see the full punishment of Sin of violating God's law was paid.
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There wasn't an ounce of it not paid It is fully meted out at the cross
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Christ paid the fine and he took the full weight of sin the full punishment of a fine upon himself and Because that is now paid now.
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He paid it himself. God himself paid it now He can offer mercy and that's the only way you can have both grace or sorry both mercy and justice
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It's at the grace of Christ what he did on the cross as a payment of sin that's where great where we have mercy and Justice married together and that's the only way you can have that that is the only way you can have the forgiveness of sin
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This is the message. We need to communicate to Muslims who don't understand this now
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Muslims are taught and because part of being a Muslim is to submit you are not to question the
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Quran And yet the question the Quran should be questioned because the Quran teaches things
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That are impossible To have been written from God if the author of the
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Quran was God Then why does he have a wrong view of Christianity teaching that the
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Trinity is the father the mother and the son? Nowhere do Christians ever teach that Mary is
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God and yet surah chapter 5 states that Did where Allah is speaking and says
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Mary did I did I call Jesus and Mary to be God? That's not what the Trinity is.
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It describes the Trinity in surah 5 for surah 6 It is it describes the
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Trinity as three gods. Well, that's not what the Trinity is. And So this is one thing that many
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Muslims don't understand we as Christians need to reach out to them
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Don't be afraid of them what is the worst that a Muslim is going to do to you kill you
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What is it that Christ said? What is it Matt? And I think it's in Matthew. I'm looking up my largest
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But what does it say? What's the worst that a man could do to take your body? So what as Christians this is not what we live for If they take your body guess what you immediately are in the presence of God This is the argument that Paul makes in Philippians where he's a he's knows that he could lose his head
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He's in prison. He would he's saying it's better to die because he'll be with Christ He prefers that that may seem strange to many
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Christians because for many Christians They are living not for the eternal state they're living for here now you know, this is why we named the ministry striving for eternity and the reason is because We want people to strive to be living for something beyond this earth
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Not for the temporal things that we might be able to get out of earth and and look for temporal things
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Temporal pleasures and no we should be striving for that which is eternal living in a way that we are seeking the face of our
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Lord and Savior and I think that many American Christians get very mixed up when it comes to the issue of this immigration of Muslims I Was one of them, but I'm church.
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I've changed my view I've changed my view because I believe that as Christians We should be reaching out to them
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We should see this as an opportunity for where they come to us so that they could hear the gospel
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You know One of the reasons I go to New York to evangelize is because literally I can evangelize the world in one city almost every country in the world is represented in New York and comes through New York and visits
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New York and so I love to go to New York because There's people who can come to us to hear the gospel and then they go back
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To their own country, hopefully with the good news of Jesus Christ. I hope that that's what they're gonna bring to their country
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But if we're keeping silent because we're afraid what they may say we're afraid what they may do they may
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They may harm us They can't harm us
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Why? Because we live for eternity before the face of Christ and So the thing is is what's gonna be our mindset?
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We have to choose What we're gonna live for? Are we gonna live for Christ or are we gonna live for America?
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that's a decision that I think every American Christian should make must make and the reality is
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In America right now many of us Christians, I mean solid believers we are complaining about the
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Joel Osteen's and all these the Stephen Furtick's and all these kind of guys that are just making a shambles of Christianity and Doing things in the name of Christ The reality is it's time for us to stand up and say let them do what they want to do
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They're they're doing this in the name of Christ, let's stand up and preach the truth Let's reach out to a lost world stop focusing on what all these ridiculous people are doing now
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I I'm saying this but I have been I agree with my friend Justin Peters when he said
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Islam is not a threat to the church Okay, Stephen Furtick's a threat to the church.
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Why because he's doing it in the name of Christ Everyone knows that what Islam does is not in the name of Christ.
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So That's there is that difference but the reality is I think many of us are afraid
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We are we're afraid of what the Muslim may do. And so when we come back from this break
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I'm gonna bring in John and Vincent. I want to dialogue and Discuss this is something we need to think about as Christians.
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What's gonna be our view toward Muslim refugees? So we'll discuss that right after this break
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So Vincent and John are here with me I want to dialogue with them and ask I mean, so so we talked beforehand about this
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What do you what do you guys think what do you think my position is totally off not at all, can I All right.
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So hey everyone. I'm Vince loss on so first I want to Give y 'all with what all y 'all means
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So all y 'all means a specific group of all a subset of all so just just for those
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Not privy to what we mean in the South when we say all y 'all That's the deep Anyway, but and also being in the
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Deep South. I do want to you know from my perspective. I really fear and see a lot of that people conflating the
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American dream with the good news because You know God bless
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America red white and blue. You can you have the American dream? That's that's the good news, you know not so much
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Christ dying for your sins and We need a savior but Feedback for someone.
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Yeah, and yet you're in the Bible Belt where everyone goes church Everybody go if you don't go to your more you're looked at weird if you don't go to church here.
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So and like I said, yeah, we don't I mean we have some Christian cults here like the
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Seventh -day Adventist and the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I really I don't know one mosque anywhere close to where I am at least
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And I'm in I'm in South, Mississippi There may be but they definitely don't make any noise for sure if they if there is any
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They're very quiet Like and I think that's part of their strategy. I know people fear the
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Muslim community, especially once they get a majority, but my issue with that is
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How much faith are you putting in the power of the gospel? I mean, why what are you worried about it?
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Does not the gospel itself have power to convict and convert anyone? So that's kind of my issue when people are getting afraid of this.
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So are you scared to? That the gospel isn't gonna work on these people You know, that's just my observations are we scared to are we scared to share the gospel with gangbangers,
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I mean You know, I'll actually I'll tell you this Folks go do a search
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For Kirk Cameron. I think it's just search for on YouTube Kirk Cameron gangbangers Sure, it'll come up but you'll see
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Kirk Cameron sharing the gospel with a bunch of gangbangers now first off He had a hidden microphone, which may not be the smartest thing to do
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You know like you they might think you're you're you know undercover, you know swatters, yeah, but You know
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Kurt had told me that if you watch that video You're gonna see one guy that gets in his face and that guy made him nervous
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He actually said he got scared he was scared sharing the gospel with those guys
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But he continued doing it and he thought that this one guy in front of him was a guy that he was talking to that Seemed the most receptive and and he said he pressed on for that guy and yet, you know what?
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Five years later that guy that got in his face that made him nervous and he got scared friend of mine
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Scotty saw him out holding a pro -life sign and Realized it was the same guy went up and talked to him and found out that guy who got in Kirk's face
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Got saved that guy who made Kirk nervous and was afraid
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Got saved and now proclaims the gospel We need to overcome our fear
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Be bold. I really think comes down to perspectives Vincent.
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I think it comes down to what it was it we're living for You agree? Oh, yeah I mean, what is it if you gained a whole world, but Yeah, you could gain everything in this earth if you're not it just ends if you're not saved
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So, I mean we try to have an eternal perspective at least in our group, you know
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Yeah, you could gay you could be a million billionaire. It doesn't matter You're still gonna die and it's been eternity and hell if you don't have
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Jesus, so What's really important? Let's look at let's look at our president, right?
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We got President Trump He's he's got billions, right? I mean, he's got he why would he want to become president?
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Why what would he what does he gain from this? Right? You know, he's an older man the last few years of life.
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He wants to be able to say he was president Is it is it for stat? You know, his argument is he's doing it because he wants to make
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America great again But He's got all that money, right?
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He's not doing it for the money But is making America great again the big issue
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Well, I'd ask what is the standard of America being great really? Yeah, and by whose perspective, you know
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I think making great America great again would be where the gospel is
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Going across the land So much so that yeah, you know I mean look when this country was founded and all these people that want to say that this wasn't a
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Christian nation Okay, it wasn't it wasn't a Christian nation It was based on Christian values and One of the things
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I think when I look at this I look at this and say, okay This country was so influenced by Christians Christian men and women that men like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson who were not
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Christians They were deists but listen to their speeches. You'd think they're Christians Because the the nation was so influenced with Christianity that they they had to sound like Christians to stay in politics
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And That would be great to see I mean America like sending missionaries around the world again
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That would be great to see so some my issue with America today. Did you see the Tony Miano ruling where?
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recently, no, I Have not heard I mean I recently was sent something about this
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He was rule. He can't preach outside of a abortion clinic or be sent to jail I mean they he was just reading the
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Bible and they are now this judge is Throwing a book at him. He's got like a jail sentence.
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That's been a whatever you stayed But if he's caught preaching the gospel or reading a
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Bible outside of a abortion clinic, he's going straight to jail Yeah, my understanding is he's if he is outside of a
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Planned Parenthood He will spend 30 days in jail like he was sentenced to 30 days in prison
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But it's like Community or like yeah, I actually have to do it unless he breaks some one of these rules
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Which is being outside of a Planned Parenthood That's the way
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America's going this is making America great again Yeah, and you know and and this is the thing look we could we could look at abortion
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Hate it wish it was illegal, you know, and as it's the argument I make, you know It's the argument that I made to Matt Delahunty when he and I were talking and he said that you know
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I I was asking him why he's he's so against, you know, Christianity and makes this you know does everything he does
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It's like well you Christians supposedly force our beliefs on everybody and this is a you know
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They have their atheists are trying to overturn, you know the Christian Government that we have and and I'm like really we force our beliefs on people then explain abortion
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How is abortion legal if this is a if if Christians have such power? You know, but for a lot of Christians they focus on the abortion.
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They focus on You know same -sex marriages and all the stuff that's going on with the
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LGTB and and it's wrong Don't you know, don't mistake me. It's wrong.
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It you know that that lifestyle is sinful fine But is that the goal that the
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Christian should be doing is to overturn? Your Roe vs. Wade or overturn?
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same -sex marriage Or is our our mission to be sharing the gospel with people?
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so that They would they would vote differently, right? I mean they're going to behave differently
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It's the Gospels the solution It's the gospel that transforms not
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Deistic moralism that we try to force on people. But yes, it's the gospel that will change hearts
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Let me ask you Vincent. You're you're down in the deep south in the Bible Belt. Everyone goes to church there Yep, everyone a
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Christian down in the Bible Belt. I Would say everyone thinks they're
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Christian in the Bible Belt, but no, I don't think everyone is They are they are cultural
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Christians, but they're not born -again true Christians, I would say
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Moralism on them isn't that the worst thing we could do because now they're not looking for a savior They actually think they're they're good to go.
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I mean anyway, I go to church up You know meet all the requirements
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I do my time I'm good and And see this is the thing that I I don't want to just teach moralism
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I don't want to just have us trying to get a moral America. I'd like to see a saved
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America and I think that as Christians, that's what we as Christians should be seeking
36:24
Not just morality not just a better government. Not just better economy or Capitalism or whatever the thing, you know
36:33
We should be about the business of seeing Christ save souls and in order to do that He says how are they gonna hear without someone preaching?
36:45
We need to go out and open our mouths and share with people. It doesn't mean you have to stand on a street corner
36:51
But there's different ways of doing it I mean, you know John Vincent you guys have that your
36:56
Council of Google Plus that you guys do on a regular basis You open it up your Google Hangouts and your discord to people to come in and have discussions
37:05
You guys are constantly sharing the gospel with people that don't believe the gospel You use technology, right?
37:14
It's the best way at least the most efficient way that we can I mean we do in live real life when we can
37:19
But honestly, we do reach a lot of people that we would not normally through our digital medium so,
37:25
I mean the Lord has blessed us with this medium to use and So we're gonna proclaim the truth the gospel every chance we can with every people group
37:35
We come in contact with so I do I do want to praise God for that But yeah, whether we do we do
37:41
I talk to people in real life a lot But yeah has afforded us an opportunity to reach groups that we normally wouldn't and and groups around the world
37:50
I mean, I remember there was a guy who was coming into the when Matt and I would do the slick answers It's a guy from Australia.
37:56
He was a nurse He would come in on an almost regular basis and he was reading good
38:01
Christian apologetics He was an agnostic, but he was searching he was looking he was studying and he'd ask good questions.
38:08
It was great having him He's in Australia. I mean you and I probably wouldn't get the opportunity to sit and talk with him if it wasn't for the technology
38:18
Right, right, correct We speak to people in Australia, India South America around the world literally from The the technology in our own home sitting in our own living room right now
38:34
Which and your living room is very far away about as far away as you can get from me in this country, right?
38:41
I mean you're on the opposite coast You know and so I mean
38:47
John you're in a more liberal area. Okay, like like me I'm gonna say you two are in the liberal area.
38:55
Yeah, he's Dakota East and the West Coast are pretty liberal compared to where we I am it's an interesting comparison.
39:01
Yeah, because you live in a state. We're pretty much where everybody goes to church But Ideally though you can't really say that.
39:15
I mean people will just go there because that's the Tradition is that people go to church down there in the south because that's that's just a way of life
39:25
You know where I'm at Washington State and where Andrews at, you know, New Jersey, you know people
39:32
Even though well, I would say that over in on the East Coast. There's probably a lot more churches than there are here in Washington State But Basically, no one wants to go to church.
39:45
Nobody really cares about going to church They they are professing atheists and they are loud and proud about it and they don't they they have no interest
39:59
But I would say that the churches that are here The the many churches that are here the
40:06
Christians that do go are Are Really genuine Christians say they are the ones that well, okay.
40:13
I don't want to say Don't know But here's the thing they're not cultural like out here,
40:22
I mean Exactly. That's the issue. I mean everyone goes here. So everyone's a cultural
40:28
Christian they may not know us and lick about the true gospel and But they like I said, they tick their check mark and we're in there in the club and Like I said, you're look more you're frowned upon if you don't hear
40:42
But Vince, here's the thing in in the in this Bible Belt in South where you're at Everyone's expected to go to church.
40:49
And as we said, they they're not looking for a Savior I always say when I do my evangelism trainings
40:56
It's not hard to get a person saved. It's hard to get them lost. I mean when
41:02
I first heard the gospel Being raised Jewish. I thought I immediately just about my
41:08
Judaism. I was going to heaven because that's what I was taught I didn't see the need for a
41:14
Savior It wasn't till I realized I was lost that I looked for a Savior and the reality is in the
41:21
Deep South Everyone who thinks they're saved they're not looking for a Savior. You know what the Muslim here's the thing that people don't understand
41:30
The Muslim Even though they have no assurance that they're going to paradise because that's what they would call it
41:39
Even though they have no assurance and and it would be it would be a sin to to claim
41:44
You have the assurance that you're going to paradise yet they won't question it and put absolute trust in it because that's
41:52
They think the only way they can have any hope is within Islam So they're not looking for anything else because for many of them in these countries that Islam's all they know
42:05
They are taught not to question this They can't question this and they're not looking for a
42:12
Savior. They don't think they're lost They think they're in the same boat as everybody else They're just better off because they at least have what they think is the truth
42:22
So let me ask you this Andrew did they from what I can tell they have a
42:27
Pretty fatalistic view of it. I mean their their fate is determined before they're born whether they
42:35
You know They're going to go to heaven or hell no matter what they do and in their in their view
42:41
They would say that you do good works, right one good work counts for ten bad works So so but I think jihad what is it jihadi or you know, they're
42:51
Well, and they're pricing himself within that guarantees them They're only guarantee, right?
42:56
This is the same thing that came out of the Catholic Church during the Crusades that people don't understand when when the Crusades occurred What they did is they opened up all the prisons and told people if you die in a holy war you're guaranteed eternal life
43:08
You're guaranteed heaven. It's the same thing within Islam Islam there is no way to have a guarantee of forgiveness of sin other than dying in a holy war jihad now when a
43:26
Muslim become when someone becomes a Muslim and they they make that confession of faith in Islam it that's would say that all of your past sins are now paid for they're covered
43:37
Which means unless you do that like at the last second of life You're gonna have things that you break
43:43
God's law and you're now gonna be accountable and there's no way to know That those are forgiven
43:50
They don't they don't have someone to redeem them correct, correct and and you know as Christians I Understand we have the fear of what they're gonna do to our country what they may do to us.
44:07
I understand that But do you love Christ enough?
44:14
To overcome that do you love them enough to overcome that you know
44:20
Paul says in 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 therefore
44:28
Knowing the fear of God we persuade others but that But what we are is known to God and I hope it is also known to your conscience
44:40
We we should be persuaded by the fear of God first the fear of God Should be something that Causes us to say we're gonna reach out to that to these people
44:53
But then it says further in first in verse 14 in the same chapter for the love of Christ Controls us because we have concluded this
45:03
That one has died for all therefore all have died and if he died for all
45:09
That those who live might no longer live for themselves But for him
45:17
Who for their sake died and was raised? Does the love of Christ compel you to get out of your comfort zone get out of my comfort zone and reach out to these?
45:27
people because they are dying and Going to an eternal lake of fire. That's their eternal destiny
45:35
Is the is the fear of God? Persuading you is the love of Christ controlling you
45:45
That what this says the gospel right there that one died for all Christ died for us
45:52
That we could be forgiven We should be going out into the world and sharing that message even with the
45:59
Muslim Refugee who's coming in here. Maybe they're even coming in here to kill us Is that God's will?
46:08
You let me take a break and I'm gonna say something that's gonna seem really controversial but could it be
46:13
God's will that we Become a Muslim nation is could it be
46:18
God's will that we suffer under? Muslim law Think about that and we're gonna discuss that more after this break gasp, you know that striving for eternity provides speakers and seminars that we would come to your church and Disciple your people we have seminars on the
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What do we believe will answer those questions and more some people just don't understand what the church is today
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47:57
Your copy at what do we believe book .com or at the striving for eternity org store
48:03
And then see you've been waiting for that. Hey Yeah, I have this one Andrew. I would like to ask you a question.
48:09
What would you think of a country that? Christianity is illegal in and you could die, you know proclaiming your faith to others
48:21
Yeah, what kind of country would that be? Could be I bring it up because that's that's exactly how
48:27
Christianity started. Yeah in in Rome it's it was a sect of Judaism that got outlawed and yet it prospered it grew underground even
48:47
It it prospers in China today. How? How can that be?
48:55
because Christians Not like many of us in America because Christians recognize the cost and Even knowing that they could go to prison.
49:05
They could lose their life. They could be persecuted They are willing to share the good news.
49:12
It's amazing And I mean, you know
49:20
It's really kind of confusing to me that we live in a country where we have so much liberty to share the gospel
49:27
We have even still today we do we have so many resources
49:32
I mean, I mean look behind me and you see my library There are Christians around the world that have never seen that many
49:42
Christian books And this is only part of my library, right? I mean you think about we have so many resources we should be about the business of sharing the gospel and getting the truth out there and yet Quite frankly what most of American Christianity has become is either foolishness or fighting against the foolishness.
50:06
I Mean we have so many Christians that spend so much of their time Researching and studying the foolishness that happens within Christianity to point that out, but they don't go out of their way to take someone that is a
50:20
Muslim or a Mormon and share the gospel with them John you have any thoughts?
50:34
Um Actually, I was looking for I Confess I was actually looking for the fallacy of the week.
50:43
And so I was just If I can help you out with that because you mentioned earlier you weren't looking for something like that I was trying to find a connection between what
50:51
Muslims do seem to do and What kind of fallacies do they usually
50:59
Fall into as far as when it comes to some of the information that they have But I don't want to break the
51:05
Actually, I have a good fallacy from slick answers that we'll end up using we'll discuss but so so, you know the thing is is that we we as Christians is what my challenge is to all of us is
51:19
Don't be fighting You know against Muslims coming here is as refugees trying to escape
51:26
Their country we should be seeking to evangelize them. That's really the message that I'm trying to communicate and So we'll get to We'll get to some logical fallacies spiritual transition games in a bit.
51:40
I do want to give the announcement though, Vincent You've been waiting for this book here. What do we believe for a while?
51:47
Since last g3 my friend you notice what I'm holding up doesn't say Reviewers copy not for sale.
51:55
This is the actual copy here Vincent So that's the one you where you worked out all the bugs
52:01
Well, we're still working But We this we are getting the books in supposedly this very week
52:12
I got two copies in that were that this is one of the copies for me to review And so they are finally coming in.
52:20
They should be coming out shortly basically what we're gonna be trying to get a team of volunteers together to get the
52:28
Hundreds of copies out the door to and then bring them to The post office. So if you have ordered a copy
52:35
Vincent, actually, I think Vincent didn't you even win a free copy? I I May have
52:41
I don't think it's been too long my friend you copy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna let's we both let's wonder it no
52:52
John John you stole my Bible so now I have six kids I don't remember what we talked about last week.
52:58
So well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I'm just gonna say be paying attention to Facebook the books should be coming in Wednesday or Thursday.
53:07
I will be announcing a way That many people will be able to get a free copy
53:14
So be watching my Facebook. It'll be on my Facebook wall. So if you're not friends with me, well, well too bad.
53:20
Um, I Emptied a hundred slots I removed a hundred people that had deactivated their
53:27
Facebook or have passed away and have Made space for a hundred more people.
53:33
They're even been filling in John is smelling his his Bible there I should you know, look at this.
53:38
Look at this John rubbing in that he he got that nice Skylar. Oh Look at it.
53:44
Oh look that so He's ruining that nice soft cover. So I Admit it.
53:54
I covet his Bible. I admit it You know, I don't think coveting Bibles is a sin Is it coveting other things maybe but you want to let folks know that that that'll be coming out.
54:05
Let's uh, Let's play a quick Announcement and then we'll get to some games that we like to play here
54:14
This podcast is a member of the Bible thumping wingnut Network All right. Welcome everybody to another podcast episode with Semper Reformanda radio.
54:22
Hi, welcome to theology cows Welcome everyone to the logical belief ministries podcast.
54:28
Well, welcome to the school of biblical harmonics Welcome everybody to grappling with theology.
54:34
What is going on guys China's lights coming at you. Well, welcome to slick Answers good evening and welcome to the conversations from the porch
54:43
I Allow and welcome to living in the pine.
54:50
This is the council or Google Plus Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the Bible thumping wingnut podcast the
54:57
Bible thumping wingnut Network 12 podcasts one network Check them out at Bible thumping wingnut calm
55:03
That's right. Check out the podcast the blogs and all that at Bible thumping wingnut calm
55:08
Where you do get the Council of Google Plus runs it says that was such authority with that musical behind him
55:14
But let us begin with a good fun spiritual transition game. We're talking about the gospel.
55:20
How do we transition from? The natural world to spiritual world getting into the gospel.
55:26
So let us begin with our game It's time now to start the
55:33
Spiritual transition game All right, this is where Vincent or John are gonna give me something for me to transition to the gospel
55:41
There is no part of this that is edited So I will either do a good job or as usual do a bad job, but I'll try real hard but the goal of this is to train ourselves to go from the natural world to spiritual because many of us can handle the gospel gospel conversations when it's on spiritual issues and Many of us just need to train ourselves to be able to make that transition.
56:04
That's why we do it So Vince it sound like you were gonna say something I was gonna say if you get to the gospel that you can't you you're you've succeeded because There's no bad way to get to the gospel.
56:15
That's all I'm gonna say. How about I'm looking at right now some Vitamins that I purchased to maybe help me to be more healthy.
56:28
I May have I may need an overdose to get healthy, but that's that's another story So you you bought a bunch of vitamins thinking now now you have you really don't know if these vitamins are gonna work
56:39
Do you not at all? I'm praying for them Putting your faith in these vitamins saying they are gonna make me healthy
56:48
I mean without the exercise or proper diet, right just taking the vitamins But realistically you you won't know
56:57
Whether it's the vitamins typically, you know, it's an interesting thing people take vitamins Thinking well if I take these vitamins,
57:03
I'm gonna be healthy, but most people that take vitamins and are in good shape They don't just take vitamins.
57:10
I mean they exercise they eat well they do a lot of other things but there's a lot of people that just say well see all these people take vitamins and they must be healthy and It's not just the vitamins maybe but what are they doing?
57:21
They're putting their trust in the vitamins to help them get healthy and yet they can't know really
57:28
I mean, you don't know the result We don't know how those vitamins are ultimately over a long period of time gonna work on our body we would assume that from lots of studies that certain vitamins are gonna be good for us and yet what we end up seeing is that we do these things to try to improve our body why because of a very simple thing as much as Vincent you
57:51
Recognize but don't want to admit and true for all of us. We're getting older With age comes decay why our bodies as You know get to a point where they we peek out at very early and then everything else is just decay
58:07
And we do all this thing. We exercise we start eating, right? We start taking vitamins as we get older because we recognize our bodies are breaking down.
58:15
Why are they breaking down? very simply our bodies break down and need vitamins and exercise and good diet because It's suffering from the curse when
58:25
Adam and Eve first sinned against God and that was passed on to every generation We violate
58:31
God's law and in doing so we suffer the curse and it's a daily Reminder, but you know what?
58:39
When for those who put their faith in Christ those who recognize that Jesus Christ died in their place as a payment of that sin
58:45
They look at that failing body and in 2nd Corinthians 5 They see it as something that gives them a desire for something greater the desire to be with Christ They can look forward to the decaying body because it means they're one day closer to the one they love and so We take all these vitamins because we know our bodies decaying and you know what?
59:06
I think God gives us that that daily reminder to remind us that the curse is
59:12
Around us. It's all around us and we need a Savior. Have you trusted in that Savior Jesus Christ today?
59:19
That's how I'd go about going from vitamins to the gospel, I Don't know how you do it but think about it and if you have a better way of Sharing the gospel from vitamins go to the striving for eternity group on Facebook and share how you would transition from vitamins to the gospel
59:37
Though I would go about it. Like I said, you can't go wrong as long as you get to the gospel.
59:44
That's right. And now Now it's time for name that fallacy
59:57
All right, so name that fallacy this is where we are going to name a fallacy and we had a doozy of a one on slick answers just like two weeks ago
01:00:08
But I think I think it was titled angry atheist Refuses logic if you look for that in slick answers, but we had we had we had to what we could we could
01:00:20
Say that we we had this I don't risk won't be the fallacy But you know, it's only about 30 seconds long
01:00:27
Just give a listen and think of how you would respond to what Matt had to deal with This you said statements either true or false.
01:00:34
I gave you a statement and you said it doesn't apply It's not only to that statements would be either true or false
01:00:40
So is it true that I'm talking to you? Is it true? That is true statement. I'm talking to you.
01:00:45
Is that true? Yes, okay. Is it true that babies exist? um
01:00:52
Well, I mean how babies exist Babies exist. Is that true or is it not the case?
01:00:58
That is true. I Mean go down the you know, it won't be it's very strict about it. I would be skeptical about okay, we're done talking
01:01:09
Idiot itis So skeptical he doesn't know if babies exist he knows that they're that he and Matt are talking but he doesn't know babies exist but no after that After that, we actually had
01:01:21
John lose it John lost because he couldn't believe the guy said babies though. He doesn't know babies exist but after that we had
01:01:29
Bob and Bob made this clean he Bob Let's let's see if we could play
01:01:34
Bob. Hold on one second. We could play the beginning of Bob If I could find it
01:01:40
I should have put this in the In in the discussion, but Let's play let's play a little bit of Bob here.
01:01:51
Give me proof that your God exists. Yeah, the resurrection of Jesus is the Yeah, it is
01:01:59
Okay, now notice what Bob said Okay, we're gonna play this again. This is the logical fallacy.
01:02:05
Okay, listen again to what ends up happening He asked for proof does Matt give him proof and then is that proof accepted every proof that your
01:02:15
God exists Yeah, the resurrection of Jesus is the proof It is Okay, so He wants empirical evidence
01:02:28
Can you name that? fallacy Well, I would say it's begging the question to a degree because he's assuming that only empirical evidence is valid evidence but I mean you may have you may be going down a different route, but But we did get into it
01:02:44
You're exactly right because we did address that with him Because Matt ended up asking him or I asked my figure which one of us asked him if his statement has been validated by science
01:02:55
I mean, is there empirical evidence to support his statements? But that wasn't gonna go down that road but that is one of them because this one actually
01:03:04
Especially you heard the whole conversation. There were several. I missed that because I was setting up the hangout
01:03:09
So I missed all this so I don't know what you're talking about at this moment This is new to me. I'm just letting you know, well, thanks so so I ended up later asking him because Matt Smith so Matt makes the argument that the answer to his
01:03:22
Question is the resurrection He doesn't accept that why because he wants science and I ended up explaining to him
01:03:32
I Asked him if he could prove that George Washington was our first president and He said yes by history, but he won't accept history
01:03:47
To be the evidence of the resurrection. I asked him, you know, what would prove the resurrection? I said would 500 eyewitnesses prove it
01:03:54
He said yes that would but then he wants to reject the Bible's account of 500 eyewitnesses
01:03:59
Okay, so you have a couple things one you have confirmation bias He's only accepts information that already confirms his his conclusions
01:04:08
But you also have a genetic fallacy and that is because he has it's actually more specifically he has a category error
01:04:17
He wants to define something in history and philosophy by science and I ended up explaining to him
01:04:24
That you can't it's impossible to prove the existence of God From science why it's the wrong measurement
01:04:33
It's like asking someone how many feet does eight gallons of water weigh? You can't answer that why?
01:04:42
It's a fallacy. It's the wrong measurement and This is what you have here.
01:04:47
You you can't measure science is a study of the material world God is immaterial. You can't use science to prove
01:04:55
God ever because God's not material Science can only study material things.
01:05:02
It's the wrong measurement. We could use philosophy We could discuss history as Matt did with the resurrection
01:05:08
Those are the studies you could use that would be a proper category, but you can't use science because it's the wrong category so what he has here is a category error and He couldn't see it and you see people do that all the time
01:05:24
I will say if you had if you didn't hear the full thing go back to the episode angry atheist refused logic with slick answers
01:05:31
And listen to the tail end of that you will You'll get to hear John lose it and you'll get to hear
01:05:36
Bob But sounds like fun to me. You can ignore my part We'll say are we do our friends in discord?
01:05:48
Have a good argument. I mean pure true empiricism just is self -refuting you can't prove and fierce and empiricism is the source of all knowledge and Using it in the method.
01:06:02
That's right. It's self -defeating. You can't do it Empiricism the relies on the observable.
01:06:09
Does it not? You can't observe that this is how you truly gain knowledge, you know, this is the only way they're getting all not
01:06:17
So so it's self -refuting to begin with so it's just it's always fun to talk to atheists who?
01:06:23
who use of empiricism as a Method, but not just empiricism skepticism, which we heard with the other guy
01:06:30
That's couldn't couldn't if we're gonna go depending how far we go on skepticism He couldn't say whether babies exist and they'll quote
01:06:37
Descartes, but you know Descartes Actually this thing that shocks people Descartes was trying to prove the existence of God and came to the conclusion that I think
01:06:47
The fact that I think I exist and they always just quote that I think therefore
01:06:52
I am but go on what was the rest of what the cart was arguing the fact that I think proves that I exist the fact that I exist proves there must be a
01:07:02
God Boom, they don't want to go to the rest of that because the skepticism.
01:07:07
What was the car trying to do? He wanted ultimate skepticism. He thought that if he asked enough questions, he could get to the truth and He did
01:07:15
God exists. Yep. And so the fact Sorry, go ahead
01:07:22
Vincent. I just usually at that point. They just don't want to answer the questions because they realize the The true answer.
01:07:29
Yeah So folks listen our challenge. We know God exists and what we want to do is challenge you
01:07:37
Don't fight Muslims coming into this country that are coming here to try to make a better life
01:07:43
I understand we don't want terrorists coming in. We don't want things like that We have laws and we want people that are gonna obey the laws
01:07:49
But you know what as Christians, you know what our mission is. It's not to be checking Fox News to get the latest details
01:07:55
It's not to be writing our congressmen and see if we can change the laws We should be sharing the gospel with them.
01:08:01
What greater testimony could there be what greater honor could Christ receive? What greater glory could we give to God than being reaching out to these?
01:08:10
Muslims who may even be coming here to destroy us and they receive Jesus Christ Repent of their sins and now our eternal brothers and sisters
01:08:18
How great would that be that should be the focus that we look to do make that your mission today?
01:08:27
This podcast is part of the striving for eternity ministry for more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church