August 22, 2022 Show with Harry Reeder on “The Authority & Trustworthiness of Scripture”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, in downtown

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Carlyle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 22nd day of August 2022.

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I'm delighted to have back as a returning guest one of my favorite preachers.

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I had the privilege at the most recent Orlando Ligonier Conference, their national conference in Orlando, Florida, to hear this guest speak, among others, and his message actually stood out as my favorite and was left so edified and blessed by it.

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I'm speaking of Dr. Harry L. Reader III, who is an author. He's the host of the

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Embers to Aflame Conferences and host of the Radio Bible Ministry in Perspective.

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He's also the senior pastor of Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, Alabama, which is a congregation in the

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Presbyterian Church in America. Today, we're going to be addressing the authority and trustworthiness of Scripture, and those happen to be the two themes that Dr.

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Reader will be speaking on at the upcoming Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania, on the broader theme,

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The Sufficient Word. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr.

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Harry Reader. Hey, Chris. It's good to be with you. Thank you. Grateful for your ministry, by the way.

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Oh, I am so grateful to hear that coming from somebody of your caliber. Well, first of all, tell us about Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

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Well, you know, it's a congregation that was planted by Dr. Frank Barker, who actually was a great blessing of coming into the

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PCA and securing five of the pastors that were kind of founding pastors came in not long afterwards as mentors, and he was one of them.

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And then in the providence of God, my first church I pastored was a revitalization project in Miami, Florida, Pinelands, which kind of gave vent and opened door to a ministry that has been lifelong, and that is

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Embers to a Flame, how to lead a church back to church gospel health with a biblical paradigm, not gimmicks, but what does it mean to be a healthy church?

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And after that had happened, I was just enjoying myself. I honestly really love the ministry in Miami for various reasons.

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One of them is that I had this multi -ethnic church that I was just enjoying.

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But then I got a call going up to Charlotte, the sponsoring church for me to go to plant a church in Charlotte that today is

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Christ's Covenant, pastored by my friend Kevin DeYoung, and I was there 17 years as the church planter.

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The sponsoring church was Briarwood. They gave us $25 ,000 a year to plant the church there in Charlotte.

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Well, that furthered my relationship with Dr. Barker, and rather startlingly was the request that I considered coming to Briarwood when he announced his retirement in 1998.

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I was, for various reasons, a no. In fact, I said no seven times.

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But God, after a while, said, The reason you think you're coming back is because you're giving the wrong answer.

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My wife kind of got ahead of me on this one, and we sensed the Lord was calling. So I came here in September of 1999, and in about two weeks

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I will have been here 24 hours. And so it's been a great privilege to be there in ministry.

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Briarwood hosted the very first General Assembly, and Dr. Barker was one of the founding fathers of the

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PCA and the very first General Assembly, as I said, was at Briarwood, and we have actually hosted in our church facility on three occasions.

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And then this last year, our presbytery in the downtown Birmingham area.

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So we've had the General Assembly four times in the 48 years. By the way, I don't know if you know my very dear friend from Birmingham, Alabama, Reverend Roger Salter, but he is the rector of St.

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Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, and it's a very reformed, conservative,

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Bible -believing, confessional Anglican church. And Roger is a very dear brother and a brilliant brother, and I think that you would both be blessed by getting to know each other if you do not already.

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Yes, Chris, we do know each other, and Dr. Barker knew him back some time ago.

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In fact, he launched the St. Matthew's congregation prior to my arrival here, and our church, conservative evangelical churches, have cross -pollinated in initiatives of ministry and exchange of members from time to time.

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So I've gotten to know Roger, as you're right, brilliant, great insights in life and ministry.

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And so, of course, I was going to try to challenge him and encourage him on church government, but I'm not there.

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Well, I will pass on your warm regards to him the next time we speak.

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I was asked about Briarwood, and I wanted to mention to you that, you know, years ago, there was a pastor of Third Presbyterian, which is now a

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PCA church in downtown Birmingham, who used to walk the streets. They called him

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Brother Brian, called it religion. He was the unofficial chaplain of the fire department.

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He used to walk the streets in prayer. I believe in answer to his prayer,

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God brought Frank Barker, a fellow by the name of Dick Van Yell, and a fellow by the name of Dr.

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Charles Carter, once a Southern Baptist, one was a Bible church pastor, and then

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Dr. Barker, Presbyterian, which really launched what continues today as a continual revival of the gospel in our city area.

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We have much to see done, but we have been blessed for a continued revival of blessings from the late 1860s on into this time, and I've had the privilege to come here and serve for the last 23, now going on 24 years.

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Well, you may not know this, but my very dear friend, who also happens to be my very first pastor as an evangelical born -again believer, who baptized me in the waters of baptism in the mid-'80s,

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Mike Gaydosh, who is also one of the primary financial supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, his publishing ministry,

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Solid Ground Christian Books, is the publisher of Religion in Shoes, the Christlike Life and Ministry of Brother Brian of Birmingham by Hunter Blakely.

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Wow. I did not know that. Yep. All worlds, and it's a lot of fun to connect the dots.

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Amen. In the cause of Christ, isn't it? Yep. Amen. Well, if anybody is going to be visiting the

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Birmingham, Alabama area, or if you already live there, I strongly urge you to visit

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Briarwood Presbyterian Church, and the website is briarwood .org,

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easy enough to remember, briarwood .org. And tell us now about your role at the upcoming conference, the

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Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology, and you can't say that too fast because listeners may misunderstand us as promoting a

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Quaker conference, but this is the Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology, going to be held this

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November on the sufficient word, and as I said already, I'm going to be,

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God willing, manning an exhibitor's booth there, and Dan Doriani, who's been my guest on the program even recently, is one of the speakers.

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Richard D. Phillips is also one of the speakers who I have interviewed a number of times, and my guest today,

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Dr. Harry Reeder, is also on that roster. That's November 11th through the 12th, the sufficient word is the theme.

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Tell us more about your role there and how you became connected with this wonderful conference ministry.

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Yeah, Chris, maybe I could do it a little bit context. My primary calling in ministry, vocational calling,

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I'm the senior pastor at Briarwood. Briarwood's pretty much where meat and potatoes. Our mission statement just comes right out of Matthew 28,

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Acts chapter 1, verses 4 through 9, Ephesians 4, 11 through 16, just lining up with what

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Christ has given to his church to make disciples, so our mission is for God's glory.

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Briarwood is committed to equipping Christians to worship God, reach Birmingham, to reach the world for Christ.

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And so as a pastor, the most consuming aspect of life and call.

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But I also have a response to my denomination, and one of the venues I use beyond not only in the presbytery and serving, but there is a wonderful fellowship of pastors who are very much focused on the confessional mission and message of the church.

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As summed up in our Westminster standards, it's called the

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Gospel Reformation Network. And so I give some time to that and the conferences and publications, etc.

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Then when I get outside of my church, what are the most profitable venues?

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Well, I have identified my venues that I would work with beyond my own denomination and my responsibilities to Christ's church, militant and universal.

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It would be—I've made selection. One is Westminster Seminary, my alma mater,

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Reformed Theological Seminary, my doctoral alma mater, our own Birmingham Theological Seminary right here in Birmingham under the oversight of Briarwood, and then two organizations,

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Ligonier because of their commitment to confessional integrity, Reformed Theology, and then, of course, the

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Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology. Another one of my mentors was Jim Boyce, and so I was available to him.

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He went to be with the Lord. And now Rick Phillips, who's going to be at this conference, gives leadership to the

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PCRT and its various locations, including

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Quakertown. So I also give time to them and their conferences upon their request.

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I've been to Quakertown now a third or fourth time. It's a wonderful group of people, wonderful fellowship, and there's been a great blessing to be a part of, and I'm looking forward to returning there.

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And nothing excites me more than to deal with that, what

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I call, among many others, the formal foundation that was ultimately sorted out and focused upon and featured in the

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Reformation, and that is sola scriptura, that the Scripture alone is our only rule of faith and practice.

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Amen. So when they told me their focus, and would

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I be a believer even if I hadn't been? I think I might have tried to be, because I just think that this is so absolutely crucial that we deal with this issue of particularly the authority and inerrancy of the

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Scripture related directly to the sufficiency. It's my opinion that the attack upon mainline

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Protestantism in the 19th and 20th century through liberal

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Christianity was the attack upon the inerrancy of the Scripture.

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I believe today's attack of progressive Christianity upon the evangelical church is cut from the same bolt of cloth, but the focus is not on inerrancy.

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The focus of the attack today from progressive Christianity is on the sufficiency of the

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Scripture because of also its adversarial view of the sufficiency of the

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Gospel and the sufficiency of Christ to deliver us from sins, penalty, and power.

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Amen. I think we've got to get to the issue of the sufficiency of Scripture, and I'm really looking forward to it.

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And that's pretty much my task along with the other speakers for this conference. Yes, the modern skeptic is really mirroring

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Rome's objection to the sufficiency of Scripture.

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They will say that it's trustworthy, but it's insufficient. And, of course, liberals within the

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Church of Rome would say it is neither sufficient nor trustworthy, but even the medieval position was that it was not on its own sufficient, but it was trustworthy.

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But today you've got attacks on all sides. And, by the way, I just want to give a shout -out to my friend,

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Pastor Ron Cole, of the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania, who is hosting once again the

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Quakertown. What a wonderful group of people. They really are. Amen. And Ron's a precious brother.

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I've had him on the program discussing his victory over cancer, and a book that he wrote as well.

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And also I want to give a shout -out to Ligonier Ministries, and specifically

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Reformation Trust, which is their publishing arm. I'm having, on September 22nd, my next

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon. And every year most prominent publishers, and even some small but excellent publishers, donate 100 copies each of a title

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I select from them to give away for free to the pastors attending. And I just got word moments before our interview began from Justin Wood, who is the new manager and sales and church relationships officer there at Ligonier.

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I just got word that Ligonier and Reformation Trust once again are donating 100 copies of a book to the luncheon, and this year it's going to be the heart of the

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Reformation, a 90 -day devotional on the five solos. So I'm thrilled to hear that news, that they are continuing their faithful tradition with Iron Sharpens Iron Radio's pastor's luncheon.

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Wow, that's great. That is good. Well, what a great ministry. Thank you for doing that.

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Hey, it's my pleasure. This was, by the way, launched, these pastor's luncheons were launched by my precious late wife,

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Julie, in the 1990s, and after her going home to be with the

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Lord for eternity in 2010, I have continued these luncheons in her loving memory and in honor and tribute to her.

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So it makes them more precious and special to me, and I believe even those who attend.

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Well, if anybody wants to attend the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology, and I really believe that if you are able to, that you should, because these are always excellent conferences, go to AllianceNet .org,

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that's the website of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, AllianceNet .org, and click on Events, and scroll down to The Sufficient Word, November 11 -12, 2022, featuring

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Dan Doriani, Richard Phillips, and Harry Reader, and you will have all the information that you need there, and I, God willing, will repeat that information later.

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We're going to go to our very first break right now, and when we return, we're going to be heading into our themes today, the authority and trustworthiness of Scripture.

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If you have a question for Dr. Harry Reader, please email it to us at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

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Don't go away, we'll be right back with Dr. Harry Reader, right after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend,

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We're now back with Dr. Harry Reeder, we are discussing the authority and trustworthiness of scripture, and if you have a question, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

30:55

give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence, and Dr. Reeder, when it comes to the authority of scripture, there are many who are critics of not only the scriptures, but they're critics of specifically evangelical and reformed

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Protestantism, so the critics may be Roman Catholic, or they may be leftist critics of the scripture, and they will caricature what we embrace to be the authority of scripture, which would also go hand in hand with sola scriptura, that the scriptures are our only infallible and inerrant authority for the church today.

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They will claim that we are making a nonsensical argument that the

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Bible is the authority on every single thing known to man, when obviously there are things in life, how to perform brain surgery and fix your automobile engine, and many other things that are not included in the pages of the

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Bible. So if you could explain what is meant by our view, the historic reformational view of the authority of scripture.

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Well, yeah, since you placed it in that framework, so if we're going to look at our biblical doctrine or our doctrine of scripture, there's a couple of things that's important to understand, and that is the foundational nature of this doctrine to Christianity.

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We are not people of the church, we are people of the book. You can't know the

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God of the Word without the Word of God. Now, I am fully aware of the doctrine of general revelation, that God reveals himself in providence or history,

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God reveals himself in creation, and I'm certainly aware of that.

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And such revelation is sufficient to hold us accountable, but it is not sufficient to give us what

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God has ordained for us to understand about him for an intimate personal saving relationship in the midst and along with his people.

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That's why a special revelation that God initiated with, of course, dreams and visions and direct communication to prophets and then later apostles, but then had it canonized for us in the scripture, so that God has finally spoken in his son through those who heard him, which he confirmed with the credentials of signs, wonders, and miracles.

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So in the Reformation, the presenting cause of the Reformation was, how can a man be right with God, and therefore the cardinal, as Luther would call it, the cardinal doctrine of the gospel being justification.

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Now, I have a little quarrel with that, not much, but somewhat of a quarrel with that, but I do understand what he's talking about is ultimately the repetitious question of Job, how can a man be right with God, is answered in the gospel that not only man can be right with God, but God right within man in this relationship we call the gospel and shorthand with the union with Christ.

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Well, that was the presenting cause that became publicly affirmed in the 95 theses nailed to the castle church door in Wittenberg on that October morning.

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While that became the presenting cause, it became obvious by the time the various debates that took place, beginning in 1517 and then finally bringing us to the

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Diet of Worms and where the death warrant on Luther was basically being served through an inquisition and a debate.

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It really wasn't so much designed to be a debate as it was to be an inquisition.

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And of course, the death warrant had been issued and would be reissued to fund the outcome of the

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Diet of Worms. And in it, Luther both realizes what had become abundantly clear that ultimately it was the doctrine of the scripture.

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That's his famous, here I stand unless convinced by clarity of logic or the issues of conscience are settled by the word of God itself.

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Here I stand, I can do no other unless I am convinced from scripture or the logic that scripture brings clarity to.

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And so that becomes clear. And so yes, salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but ultimately, and to the glory of God alone, but ultimately it came back to this scripture alone is our only infallible and inerrant, our only rule of faith, what we believe and practice.

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Now, while the doctrine of sufficiency of the scripture did not receive the same attention that the infallibility of scripture received in terms of its role in the

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Christian life, it would later, due to other challenges, that the infallibility or reliability of God's word would be defended through the inerrancy of God's word, particularly in the 18th and 19th century.

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And then now in our day, the sufficiency of God's word is ultimately the debate that is taking place, particularly with the encroachment of progressive

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Christianity into the evangelical church. And so why do we hold that position and why is this so crucial?

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Well, it's obvious it's crucial in our own reformation standards. But to me is the greatest, the greatest authority, the greatest, the greatest compendium of literature that has been made apart from the

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Bible itself. And while claiming no inerrancy or infallibility to it, I just stand in stark amazement with the glorious compendium of what we believe and the things we hold dear.

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The faith we confess as surmised and distilled in the

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Westminster Confession of Faith and its two teaching tools, the larger catechism designed for the teaching of the truths of the confession among the leaders of the ordained leaders of the church, and then the shorter catechism designed for discipleship in general, but of the training in the family in terms of how fathers would instruct their children and how everyday discipleship.

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I love the standards, but that's not our focus today.

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What is our focus, though, from the standards is what is chapter one? Chapter one is the doctrine of scripture.

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Well, why would it be? I mean, we're talking about our relationship with God. Why wouldn't chapter one be the doctrine of God?

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Well, the reason why chapter one is not the doctrine of God, because you need that source to understand and receive the information from God as to who he is and what he has done as creator, redeemer, and sustainer.

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And so that is revealed to us in the word of God. And so thus we start with the chapter one, how does

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God's word come to us in general revelation, and then the supremacy and controlling quality role of special revelation in the scripture as God has revealed himself in his son, and his son has revealed himself to the prophets and the apostles in terms of the preeminence of Christ to the glory of the

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Father and the Son. And the Holy Spirit as creator, redeemer, and sustainer.

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So that's the role of scripture. Once you lose the doctrine of scripture, you will and do lose every other doctrine dear to our faith, from Christianity 101 and the

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Apostolic Creed to Christianity 201 and the Evangelical doctrine, and then

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Christianity 301 and the Westminster Standards and other similar confessional statements of the coming out of the

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Reformation, which was a reclamation of physical truth by fundamentally reclaiming the authority, infallibility, and inerrancy of the word of God as affirmed by the word of God.

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Amen. And one thing I think needs to be really repeated, and so it sinks in to the ears and minds of our listeners, is that what you mentioned before, the general revelation that is spoken of in Romans 1, only leaves men without excuse.

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Because it does not specifically, general revelation does not specifically lay out the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel of Jesus Christ is required to be embraced for salvation.

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And unfortunately, there are even otherwise conservative evangelicals today and throughout the decades of the 20th and 21st century, perhaps even 19th and earlier, but predominantly in more modern times, there have been even conservative evangelicals, even, and I'm sad to say, and I hope that not too many people get mad at me, but Billy Graham taught an inclusivist form of gospel that the general revelation was really enough, and that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists even, who are living according to the light they have, are worshiping

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Christ without knowing it, and are going to be joining us in heaven. This is a very dangerous mindset, isn't it?

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Yes, certainly. Can God use man -made religions that pervert the truth of general revelation, and certainly special revelation, in order to bring men to himself?

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Yes, certainly. God draws lines with crooked sticks, there's no doubt about that.

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But what is abundantly clear, that Paul labels such attempts at Mars Hill as ignorant.

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They are not rays of truth. They are actually demonstrating the depravity of man as he twists even general revelation.

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General revelation is sufficient to tell us of the glory of God and his eternal attributes, his unchangeableness, and his divine power, that he ought to be worshipped.

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But it has no power to change the sin nature, and has no power to tell us of the intricacies of the

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Godhead, and the works of the Godhead as creator, and redeemer, and sustainer, to the point that men can be saved.

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And therefore, what we need is not the result of the twisting of truth in man -made religion.

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Now, the fact that there's religion, they haven't discovered any place, any primitive tribe, in which, interestingly, there's not the concept of week, there's not the concept of holy days, and that they have some form of religion.

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That religion is only, though, a testimony to our sinfulness, that we would twist those things to the supremacy of man, that we would be

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God, rather than the truth. But yes, that does bear witness that man has the image of God stamped upon him, and knows that there ought to be worship, but because of the sin nature, the glory of God is exchanged for the glory of God.

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It's exchanged to glorify man, which in fact actually sends man further into a downward spiral, a downward downgrade of the death spiral in culture, in which we embrace things that we ought to be shameful, unashamedly, as Romans 1 describes.

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Now, one of the ways, another one of the ways that the Church of Rome has twisted the

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Reformational understanding of Scripture being the sole, inerrant, infallible authority over the

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Church is that they are claiming very often, I've heard it with my own ears, from the lips and in the writings of Roman Catholic apologists and during debates and so on, but they try to create a caricature that we are presenting the idea, and unfortunately there are evangelicals who teach this, that we are fine and dandy just sitting alone in the woods, underneath a tree, reading the

45:34

Bible, and have no need of any earthly authority at all. We don't need elders, therefore we don't need to be a member of any church, we don't need teachers, our own brains connected to our eyes so that we can see what we're reading, or our ears connected to what we are hearing others say about the

45:58

Bible, is enough. And obviously the Scriptures themselves, however, teach that we do need elders, and we do need teachers, in fact there are qualifications for both, so am

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I right here? Well, very good statement. Yeah, to kind of step back to pick up something you've already pointed toward a couple of times, and that is, as we reclaim the supremacy, sufficiency, sovereignty, infallibility, inerrancy of the

46:29

Scripture in the Reformation, and have continued to mature our understanding of that doctrine as the church has matured around that doctrine in the

46:39

Reformation itself, the Roman Catholic would not have, a knowledgeable Roman Catholic, would not have denied the authority of Scripture, what it would deny is the authority of Scripture for faith and practice alone.

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And what it would claim is that yes, God's Word, and then the co -authoritative rule of the church speaking.

47:05

A lot of people will say the Roman Catholic Church believes in the infallibility of the Pope. Well, it believes in the infallibility of the

47:13

Pope in certain situations, claiming that infallibility from twisting the

47:18

Scriptures and what the church creeds, what they claim the church fathers have said.

47:24

Recently I was in a debate with an atheist, and in the debate with me was a

47:31

Roman Catholic clergy.

47:38

And as we were in the debate, we were both debating the atheist, and then it turned into somewhat of a debate between us.

47:45

And afterwards it was interesting, this lady came up and said, you know, it was interesting, you kept quoting the

47:52

Bible in the debate, and the other guy, speaking of the Roman Catholic, he quoted the

47:59

Bible sometimes, but he quoted the church fathers more than he did the Bible. And well, that's a giveaway.

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That's exactly what Luther and Calvin could quote the fathers, but only quoted them as they were affirmed in the

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Scriptures, just the way Paul could affirm a pagan poet whenever the pagan poet, by God's common grace, lined up with the

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Scriptures. And so, but in the Roman position, there are the co -rule, the co -regency of the speaking church through its councils and the

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Scripture. Well, we all know that you cannot have two masters.

48:42

You either serve the one and hate the other, or you cling to one and despise the other.

48:48

So ultimately, in the Roman Catholic Church, the speaking church trumps the word of God itself.

48:57

And that's what Luther was trying to point out in the debate, that what he believed was not the supremacy of Scripture over the speaking church, but the supremacy of Scripture alone as the rule of faith and practice.

49:13

And whatever councils, popes, cardinals, prelates, teachers, whatever they said, it was to be judged by the

49:23

Scripture itself. It was never to be considered inerrant. It was judged by the infallible, inerrant word itself.

49:31

And so that was ultimately. Now, one of the charges, as you have said, is therefore, because they argued for the priesthood of the believer, that every believer has access, and the perspicuity of the

49:45

Scripture is such, and the atheity of God is such, that man can come to the

49:53

Scriptures and be able to see the truth of God's word. Well, they also declared the necessity of the gifts of the

50:02

Spirit in teaching. Because what they said was, and what they affirmed in the

50:08

Scripture was, that faith comes by hearing. And what is that?

50:13

Well, that is the preaching and teaching of God's word. So the Reformers, while they did claim priesthood of the believers in access to the word, and in accountability with the word, never denied the role of the church in preaching that word, and the responsibility of the believer, or the hearer, to judge what was preached by that word.

50:38

I love, of course, in the Book of Acts, that marvelous chapter of 17, where it says that the

50:46

Bereans were more noble -minded because they, one, received the word of God with eagerness.

50:54

But notice, they're receiving the word of God, and then they examined the Scriptures every day, personal responsibility.

51:02

So you had the public administration of the word, the personal priesthood of the believer in the examining of the word, to see if these things be so.

51:13

Well, what was the judgment upon what they heard preached? The judgment of what they heard preached was the word itself.

51:20

That the word is its final interpreter, and if what you have heard is not faithful to the word, then you ultimately have to judge, you ultimately declare the supremacy, sufficiency, and inerrancy of the word.

51:36

But you are responsible. Yet, you are not only responsible in your personal call in the priesthood of the believer, you are also personally responsible to receive the word preached with eagerness.

51:50

Otherwise, you never go beyond your own knowledge. And that's why

51:55

God has gifted men to preach and teach the word of God, and has so ordained them to do that, because of our needs.

52:05

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ, and it's being preached.

52:10

And now, has this turned into an evangelical arrogance of the sufficiency of the individual

52:18

Christian? Yes. And that needs to be challenged. In fact, you can pick up right where you left off there, brother, because we have to go to our midway break now.

52:28

So don't forget where you left off there, about the evangelical arrogance. And folks, please be patient with us.

52:35

The middle break is always a bit longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle, so that they can obey

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FCC regulations and localize Iron Sherpa Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida.

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With their own public service announcements, and other local things, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

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Please use this time wisely, respond to our advertisers, and to further ensure that you will do that, write down as much of their contact information as possible, and also send in your questions to Dr.

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Harry Reeder, to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away, we're going to be right back with Dr.

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Harry Reeder after these messages. Attention all men in ministry leadership.

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:10:30

We have, let's see, we have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who has a question for you,

01:10:38

Dr. Reeder. He says, how do you respond to the Roman Catholic claim that since human beings are not infallible and inerrant, they are not their own popes, they need an authority outside of the

01:10:56

Scripture to be able to accurately and properly define those teachings in Scripture and we who are evangelicals have no such authority?

01:11:08

Well, so first of all, let me pick up where I was in the original to answer this question, pick up where I was previously.

01:11:16

Oh yeah, you were saying about the arrogance of evangelicalism on a certain point. Yes, the sufficiency of Scripture, the inerrancy of Scripture, and the supremacy of Scripture as our only rule of faith and practice does not, and by the way, affirming the priesthood and prophethood of every believer does not and should not give rise to evangelical arrogance that it's just me and the

01:11:41

Bible and that's all I need. No, on the contrary, God's very clear in His Word that He has ordained

01:11:47

His church, He has ordained preachers and teachers, but ultimately to answer the question is back to the sufficiency of Scripture.

01:11:56

What the question is presuming, rightly, from the

01:12:01

Roman Catholic Church is they do not believe in the sufficiency of Scripture in that matters of faith and practice, while addressed by the church, taught in the church, are not settled by the voice of the church.

01:12:19

They're settled by the appeal to Scripture itself, that Scripture interprets

01:12:26

Scripture. In the final analysis, we call it analogiae de fide, that we believe the

01:12:32

Bible is the Word of God, inspired and errant in every word and verbal plenary, the order of those words.

01:12:40

Therefore, if there is a matter, ultimately, God may use teachers for clarity.

01:12:46

My goodness, one of my mentors is with Jesus. Now, you have no idea how much

01:12:52

I miss him, and that's R .C. Sproul. But even when R .C. Sproul, with as much admiration as I have for his intellect and his communication, what he said

01:13:03

I didn't always agree with, and ultimately our disagreement was when we went back to the

01:13:08

Scripture. Now, that doesn't mean he's right and I'm wrong, or I'm right and he's wrong.

01:13:13

It means the Scripture is right. And by the way, we both could be wrong. But ultimately, the

01:13:19

Scripture is never wrong. Therefore, our standard, our measuring rod, is not those whom the

01:13:26

Lord uses in his church to teach us and speak to us or to bring forth statements and creeds from counsel.

01:13:34

That's why we even acknowledge the Westminster Standard is not the final answer.

01:13:40

It's an instrument in the search for the final answers. But ultimately, it's the

01:13:45

Scripture. So the Roman Church does not believe in the sufficiency of the

01:13:52

Scripture in these matters. So we, of course, would appeal to such texts as 2

01:13:59

Timothy 3, 16, and 17, that all Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete and equipped for every good work.

01:14:14

There, the sufficiency of the Scripture is affirmed in the life of a

01:14:19

Christian. Now, the means to get to the teaching of the Scripture is deposited within the church as they administer the keys of the kingdom.

01:14:30

And we use those. But ultimately, the matters are settled in the Scripture, not in those who are speaking in the church.

01:14:39

That's why, of course, I ended with that text in Acts 17, 11. They examined the

01:14:45

Scriptures to see if they didn't say, well, this is what Peter said. Let me go check Paul. They listened to Peter. They listened to Paul.

01:14:51

But ultimately, they examined the Scriptures. And Paul calls that noble -mindedness.

01:14:57

More noble -minded than Thessalonica. Well, guess what? They were dying for the faith in Thessalonica.

01:15:03

But even more noble -minded is to get your faith from the Scriptures through the means of grace.

01:15:10

But ultimately, the point of testing is the Scripture itself because it is sufficient for the matters of faith and practice pertaining to godliness.

01:15:22

Amen. And neither are councils and other gatherings of prominent theologians to be our final arbiter, which is why

01:15:34

Athanasius was against nearly the entirety of the leadership of the

01:15:41

Catholic Church on the area of Arianism, the teaching that Christ was not truly

01:15:51

God had become prominently, even amongst Catholic bishops. And the phrase

01:15:56

Athanasius contramundum became a phrase which meant Athanasius against the world.

01:16:03

Obviously, that was hyperbole. There were other people that agreed with him. But a great number, if not the majority of the bishops, were falling for this heresy.

01:16:15

And Athanasius was seemingly alone in his protest against this.

01:16:20

And he was using the Scriptures as the only arbiter of truth. You know, Chris, one of the great things, hopefully

01:16:27

I've got just a minute to give this out to people. Oh, you do. You have about 20 minutes. Okay, so let me say this.

01:16:33

And I'll try not to keep flipping into preaching. I'm sorry. That's my calling. I love your preaching, so you don't have to stop doing that at all.

01:16:42

So anyway, Jesus models this for us, doesn't he? So here comes the

01:16:48

Sadducees. I mean, here come the Pharisees when they try to, you know, they try to trap him there in the

01:16:56

Gospel of Matthew. And it says that, you know, Jesus answered them.

01:17:03

You know, what's the greatest commandment? Well, he just goes back to God's summation of the commandments in Deuteronomy and Exodus.

01:17:10

You shall love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind, your neighbors, yourself. They're astounded. Well, the

01:17:15

Sadducees are sitting there saying, well, if they weren't able to catch him, we are. And they come with this question of the resurrection.

01:17:22

You're aware of it, of course. Well, do you believe in the resurrection? We don't. And, of course, people say that's why they're sad, you see.

01:17:30

But you've all heard that joke. But anyway, they say, okay, a man marries a woman and he dies.

01:17:36

And then another man marries her and he dies. You have seven men that marry her and they die.

01:17:42

Of course, those are pretty stupid men, but we won't go there. And so whose wife is she in the resurrection?

01:17:49

And here's what Jesus says. You err because you do not know two things, the power of God.

01:17:56

God's got the answer to this in eternity. And number two, you err because what? You don't know the

01:18:02

Scriptures. And then he goes, of course, to the glorious truth where the

01:18:07

Bible says that I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

01:18:12

And they were utterly shut down. Now, what's interesting is he answers this theological controversy that they have brought to track him with the

01:18:26

Scripture. He shows us how to do it. You answer the twisting of Scriptures and the errors of Scripture with the

01:18:35

Scripture. But the court of appeals comes back to the Scripture, and he models this for us.

01:18:40

And he shows us that the Scripture in jot and tittle is inspired in word and in order because he makes the point that the text says,

01:18:55

I am the God. Well, who wrote that? The Holy Spirit using Moses. Where is

01:19:01

Moses? 400 years after Abraham. Well, he doesn't say, I was the

01:19:06

God of Abraham. He says, I am the God of Abraham, meaning Abraham, though dead, still lives.

01:19:15

And thus he affirms the resurrection. How can he be the God of the dead?

01:19:21

He is the God of the living. And so you can see how he models this for us in terms of the appeal to the

01:19:30

Scriptures in our matters of controversy and debate and establishing doctrine.

01:19:36

And then, of course, you go from the more, I'm not saying that every, you know,

01:19:41

Paul says, Peter says that Paul writes of such things as in the rest of the Scripture, and some are difficult to understand.

01:19:49

Well, how do you solve it? Well, again, let the Scripture interpret the Scripture. You go to the clearer passage to affirm the more difficult passages and understand them because the

01:20:01

Scripture cannot contradict itself. And, again, you see the supremacy and sufficiency of the

01:20:08

Scripture. Amen. We have, let's see,

01:20:15

Ronald in South Central, I'm sorry, that's Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, but first I'll go to Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who has a question.

01:20:28

There has been a long -time argument by Roman Catholics that we would not even know what the books of the

01:20:37

Bible are, which are allegedly our sole authority, without the authority of the

01:20:43

Church of Rome picking them and discarding apocryphal books,

01:20:49

Gnostic books, etc. And what I meant by apocryphal, I obviously did not mean the apocryphal books that they embraced in the

01:20:57

Old Testament that they call the deuterocanonical books. But how do you respond to this?

01:21:05

Well, you know, the Roman Church in its declaration of the canon, assuming that authority, which we in the

01:21:16

Reformed Church do not assume, we do not establish the canon of Scripture, we receive the canon of Scripture as the

01:21:28

Scripture affirms itself. And that's the difference. Well, of course, yes, there were some things that were discarded, but there were some things that they included, and therefore were opposed to the canon of the

01:21:44

Scripture in the days of Jesus. Of what Jesus affirmed in the canon in his days from what he quotes and where he is in the canon of Scripture.

01:21:56

So the difference is, does the Church assume the supremacy over the

01:22:02

Scripture to establish the Scripture, or do we receive the

01:22:08

Scripture as it establishes itself? Thus, I again appeal to them to take a few moments and read the assembly of the canon of Scripture and how the

01:22:20

Scripture reveals itself and is received by the

01:22:26

Church, not established by the Church. We do not originate the canon, we receive the canon, affirm the canon as the

01:22:36

Scripture affirms itself. Well, thank you, Joseph.

01:22:42

Keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in South Central Pennsylvania. We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

01:22:52

And he says, can we not rightly use the teachings that you are providing for our listeners today to critique and rebuke our friends in the

01:23:05

Charismatic and Pentecostal movements as well? Because those that believe in a continuing revelation are obviously denying the authority of Scripture alone and the sufficiency of Scripture.

01:23:18

Yeah, can I answer that? May I just go back to the gentleman that asked about the need for the

01:23:24

Church to address the matters of gospel, biblical clarity, and everything.

01:23:31

And I hope I made this clear. I do not devalue the councils. All I'm saying, ultimately, whether it's a preacher, a teacher, a council, someone ordained, someone not ordained, once they've made a declaration, the measurement of its truth is not in the

01:23:49

Church, but in the Scripture itself. Now, to this particular question, absolutely, to your listener with this question, today,

01:23:58

I don't think the battles I fight are over people coming to me and quoting the fathers and the councils in supremacy over the

01:24:09

Scripture. It is individual experience and emotions that are declared as supreme and sovereign over your teaching of the

01:24:21

Scripture. In other words, you'll hear, you preach God's Word and they'll say, well, I just don't think that.

01:24:28

Well, I mean, that's fine that you don't think that, but was it biblical and should you think that?

01:24:35

Or, well, I just don't feel like that's right. Well, there's the appeal to emotion. Well, with all due respect, and I believe feelings are a vital part of Christianity, I just preached on Paul's answer to doctrinal heresy of gnomianism and antinomianism in the

01:24:55

Gospel, I mean, in the book of Romans. And in Romans 6, I made the point that his response is an emotional response, it's an instructional theological response, and it is a directional applicatory response.

01:25:09

And so I have no problem with that, with emotions in Christianity. In fact,

01:25:15

I believe Presbyterians, dare I say that, I understand my Reformed brothers extend beyond Presbyterians.

01:25:24

So any of my Reformed brothers, Reformed Baptists, Reformed Episcopal, Reformed Pentecostal, I've just been ministering to a group of Adventist Pentecostals that I clearly see a work of Reformation going on.

01:25:43

I have wonderful conversations with our Free Will Baptist friends and talking about why you need to add

01:25:53

D to free and free will, and we'd be in a whole different ballgame. Listen, I love all of that.

01:26:00

But here is ultimately, the fact is, is that ultimately we are confessional because we believe the

01:26:08

Bible is understandable, it is sovereign, it is our final rule of faith and practice.

01:26:15

Our confessions may or may not be accurate, but they're to be measured by the

01:26:20

Scriptures, not by our experience, and not by our feelings. So I remember

01:26:27

I just shared with our congregation, I know most of you grew up with this, God said it,

01:26:33

I believe it, and that settles it. I said, I understand what we're trying to say, so I'm not nitpicking, but here's the way

01:26:40

I would encourage you, reorder that statement. God said it, that settles it, now believe it.

01:26:50

That's the way you would go about this. And with all due respect, your feelings may or may not line up with Scripture, but what you feel is not the declaration of truth.

01:27:03

The declaration of truth is what has God said. What sayeth the

01:27:09

Scriptures? They are, Jesus said, the Scriptures cannot be broken.

01:27:15

Hallelujah. We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks, how do you respond to those that are typically among our fundamentalist friends who reject the idea that we should include quotations and references to great heroes of the faith during sermons?

01:27:40

They will criticize us saying that we are denying the sufficiency of Scripture by including quotes by John Calvin, by Jonathan Edwards, by George Whitfield, by John Knox, and we could go on and on and on.

01:27:55

But aren't these men just teachers who, when they are in agreement with the

01:28:02

Scriptures and have spoken about it so eloquently, we have every right to legitimately use them in preaching as long as they do not eclipse the

01:28:15

Scripture or dominate the messages? Absolutely, and it's a very good question and answers itself.

01:28:22

The questioner has already given the right answer, and I'll just reaffirm it. Yes, we can quote.

01:28:29

Certainly we can quote. Paul quoted unbelievers when they got it right.

01:28:34

He quotes two different Epicurean and Stoic. He quotes an

01:28:40

Epicurean philosopher and a Stoic philosopher when they get it right. Listen, I not only can quote other preachers, particularly anointed preachers,

01:28:53

I just need to make sure all of my listeners understand. I give them my quote -unquote fundamentalist brothers who the questioner surfaces possibly.

01:29:07

If I just make it clear to them, listen, Jesus shows us how to quote, and Church history shows us how to quote, and I want to assure all of you, none of the people

01:29:22

I quote do I quote them because they supersede the Scripture. I only quote them when

01:29:28

I think they line up with the Scripture, but even though I quote them, that doesn't mean that you need to take their statement for fact.

01:29:38

Go check it in the Scripture yourself. I'm all for you to do that. I don't believe, but I also would like to draw a distinction.

01:29:48

There are preachers, and then there are preachers that God has anointed. And so, yeah, listen,

01:29:54

I listen to a lot of preachers, and some preachers I listen to more carefully than others. Why?

01:30:00

Because they seem to get it right more often than others. But I still test them by the

01:30:07

Scriptures. So I believe great preaching historically and in the Bible makes quotes.

01:30:13

Let me give you, Peter was not a bad preacher. He didn't get it always right, but he was not a bad preacher.

01:30:21

Well, guess what? He quoted Paul. Guess what? Paul quoted others. Guess what?

01:30:26

The writer of Hebrews quoted others. And so this is, it's fine for us to quote other preachers and teachers.

01:30:37

A, give them credit. B, let everybody know the quote must be measured by the

01:30:44

Scriptures, just like your preaching and your quoting must be measured by the preachers.

01:30:50

But yes, here's what, let me do it this way. When you're preaching, when you're quoting, make sure people know that you're quoting people who are being used for illumination are not to be considered as agents of revelation.

01:31:09

That is the apostles and the prophets, and God has finally spoken to us through His Son and those whom

01:31:19

He has appointed as apostles and prophets. Amen. And by the way,

01:31:24

I'm sure that our listener Susan Margaret knows this, but there are many fundamentalists who also quote their favorite heroes in their sermons.

01:31:34

I know a lot of independent fundamentalist Baptists, for instance, and I've heard many of their sermons and I've heard them quote men as well.

01:31:42

What's interesting is they very often quote men, even some of them who are vehemently anti -Calvinists.

01:31:50

They quote men as their heroes who actually were thoroughgoing Calvinists and they don't even realize it.

01:31:57

And an excellent book to prove that point is by my friend Dr. Tom Nettles called

01:32:04

By His Grace and For His Glory, A Historical, Theological, and Practical Study of the

01:32:09

Doctrines of Grace in Baptist Life. And it is filled with the accounts and the teachings and legacies of prominent

01:32:19

Baptists throughout history that are typically lauded as Baptist heroes by independent fundamentalists and even anti -Calvinists who were thoroughgoing

01:32:31

Reformed Christians. So I just thought I'd throw that in there because it's an excellent book, whether you're a

01:32:37

Baptist or not. Chris, may I make a comment there? Sure. I just returned not long ago from preaching in a forum of a denomination that is basically what we would call, what they identified as independent fundamentalists, and they asked me to come and preach on a particular text, which

01:32:58

I did. And here's what I found out. I found out, first of all, that when

01:33:05

I deal with them and I say, How many of you believe all of your sermon is original? Oh, no,

01:33:12

I don't believe that. Well, then that means you may not be directly quoting someone, but you are formulating something from someone who taught you and you just was faithful to the

01:33:25

Scripture. You may directly quote them or you may formulate something that actually is drawn from what you were taught.

01:33:32

So we need to do what

01:33:37

Paul said to Timothy. Continue in what you've learned. Keep on learning, knowing from whom you have learned it.

01:33:46

Quotations are just letting people know from whom you're learning, but they are not in the arena of revelation.

01:33:53

They are in the arena of illumination. And I just found it was amazing.

01:34:02

In the sermon I preached, I affirmed from the exposition of the Scripture, without referring to any of the

01:34:10

Reformers, I affirmed covenant theology and the sovereignty of God and the doctrine of election, something this group would formally be opposed to, but I'm getting amens all over the place.

01:34:24

Here's what it is. I think they love the Word, and if you can present the Word in a way that they're dealing with the

01:34:31

Word, they're kind of forced into a corner to say amen. And so it's a good way to keep.

01:34:38

That's what my brother R .C. was so good at, my father in the faith, really. R .C.

01:34:44

was so good in how he communicated in challenging groups by just preaching the

01:34:50

Word of God, and thus my commitment to Pantelian presuppositionalism comes home to rescue me once again.

01:35:01

And that was, I'm assuming, one of the friendly debates you had with Dr.

01:35:07

Sproul, who apparently opposed that apologetic method and even wrote a book with the late

01:35:15

Dr. John Gerstner, his mentor, about it. Let me just say, he would say he didn't oppose it.

01:35:23

He would just talk about how to deliver the convictions of presuppositionalism in what he called classical apologetics, which he actually tried to distance from not only what is being presented as presuppositional, but also what is presented as evidential apologetics.

01:35:43

He tried to distance from both of them. Okay. And it really warms my heart that you were invited to preach at a function organized by independent fundamentalists.

01:35:55

And one brother who is now in eternity with Christ, who did that frequently, was,

01:36:04

I don't know if you were familiar as I was, with my dear friend, the late

01:36:09

Richard Bennett, who was a former Roman Catholic priest who was saved by the grace and mercy of Christ and became a

01:36:17

Reformed Baptist apologist. But he was frequently invited by independent fundamentalist Baptists to speak.

01:36:23

And the churches would echo loudly with amens, even though our dear brother,

01:36:32

Richard Bennett, was a thoroughgoing Calvinist and even opposed the altar call system very vociferously.

01:36:41

Well, it was interesting. I grew up as a child in the years where the very same groups would quote

01:36:48

A .W. Pink and claim A .W. Pink, and yet A .W.

01:36:54

Pink wrote that stellar seminal volume on the sovereignty of God. Now he had other issues, but it was astonishing that they would quote him and claim him and have him speak.

01:37:06

And he took no prisoners over the doctrines of election and the sovereignty of God, as did

01:37:14

Charles Spurgeon. Amen. And I know two brethren who came to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace by reading

01:37:22

Pink's The Sovereignty of God, and they both said, after they first completed it, they threw the book across the room and then went searching to find it, one of them even saying he crawled on his stomach under a bed looking for it, because they had to read it again after their initial reaction of revulsion, and then after the second reading the

01:37:45

Lord used it to bring them to accept and fall in love with those teachings. That's just the power of God's Word.

01:37:52

I tell people if God can use a donkey to deliver His Word, He can use a

01:37:58

Presbyterian preacher to deliver it in a number of settings. So I'm grateful for that.

01:38:04

I'm going to ask a listener a question and have you answer it when we return from our final break.

01:38:11

We have an anonymous listener who says that,

01:38:17

I am hearing textual critics like the agnostic Bart Ehrman, who was once an evangelical

01:38:24

Christian, and even considered a rising star by his mentor,

01:38:31

Dr. Metzger, who is now denying the Scripture and is making powerful arguments that the

01:38:39

Scriptures cannot be considered trustworthy because they contradict themselves so frequently, and I would love for you to respond to that.

01:38:48

And we will have Dr. Reeder respond to that when we come back from our final break.

01:38:54

If you have a question of your own, send it in as soon as you can because we are rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:39:00

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend

01:39:25

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

01:39:30

for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

01:39:37

Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

01:39:49

Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

01:39:55

and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

01:40:03

So join me and Chris Arnzen, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.,

01:40:09

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01:40:16

that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

01:40:24

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the

01:40:31

Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study

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God's word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

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It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the

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where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. If you love

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

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Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

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To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

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Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of Scripture. To advance the cause of the

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Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.

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You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

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Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. And folks, please don't forget, if you are a man in ministry leadership, a pastor, an elder, which

01:50:49

I believe is the same office, by the way, a deacon, any parachurch leader or any leader who is a man in the body of Christ, you are invited to the

01:50:59

Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon coming up in a matter of weeks on Thursday, September 22, 11 a .m.

01:51:05

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Woysville, Pennsylvania, featuring my guest speaker, prolific author and seasoned debater,

01:51:16

New Testament Greek scholar and pastor, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

01:51:23

This is the brainchild, this Pastor's Luncheon, of my precious late wife,

01:51:28

Julie, back in the 1990s, and we continue conducting these luncheons after her returning or going home to Christ for eternity.

01:51:38

We continue to conduct these luncheons in loving memory of her and in honor and tribute to her.

01:51:46

So I hope if you're a man in ministry leadership you can attend. Send me an email to register at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:51:53

chrisarnson at gmail .com. I thank all of you from all over the United States who have been submitting registrations, and they're now starting to flood in, and I'm thrilled about it.

01:52:03

So send me your registration today at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Dr. Reeder, before the break, a listener was asking for a good response to those that begin to challenge the trustworthyness of Scripture by introducing alleged contradictions, and of course it's especially, it can be tragically a more powerful argument when someone who was once an evangelical that was even considered a rising star amongst us by his mentor,

01:52:36

Dr. Metzger, when they are making these arguments, they can be even more successfully deceptive in the hands of Satan to trick our precious people who are intrigued about the

01:52:50

Bible and perhaps even profess to be Christians. But tell us about this. Well, just a couple of thoughts.

01:52:58

First of all, as you mentioned, Dr. Metzger had affirmed him, and that's just another warning to us to be very careful.

01:53:09

So many times when people become believers, they're very quick -witted or they have a reputation or whatever, we tend to quickly put them in front of people.

01:53:20

I deeply appreciate when Chuck Colson, after his conversion and everybody's coming to him for quotes, he said, hold off, and what people don't know is that he went to R .C.

01:53:31

Sproul and asked R .C. to mentor him. Now, he and R .C. eventually had a separation over the evangelicals and Catholics together, but early on,

01:53:42

Colson was smart to know my role and my gift in the world does not automatically, now that I'm a

01:53:49

Christian, translate in being able to speak accurately. And when you put people forward too quickly, sometimes things go to their head and they actually end up going in another direction.

01:54:01

I don't know what all happened in the life of Dr. Ehrman. I am aware of it, and I've certainly had people bring me his arguments.

01:54:10

Honestly, when people have brought them and I've walked them through that, I've really had no problem in restoring their confidence in the

01:54:18

Scripture, not because of my abilities, but just because, again, I argue from the sufficiency and sovereignty of Scripture.

01:54:26

And when someone brings to me either a text taken out of context or a text that is twisted in its presentation, what

01:54:38

I do is just take the time to unravel the threads from the authority of Scripture.

01:54:43

I don't argue to the authority of Scripture. I argue from the authority of Scripture.

01:54:50

And therefore, the times that his arguments have been brought to me, and I am certainly, as one of my friends would say,

01:55:02

I am certainly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. So it's really the power of the

01:55:07

Word of God. And so that's,

01:55:13

I would just, I think there's a living lesson there of putting someone forward too quickly.

01:55:19

And usually when I meet those who have walked away from the faith, they are either in a position of God about to discipline them to bring them back, or they are revealing they were never in the faith, savingly, to begin with.

01:55:34

And then, usually undergirding that is either the sense of pride in terms of seeking of status and role, and therefore it has been, therefore, by being a contrarian, one can gain a listening and a hearing that they wouldn't have gained just in terms of the normal life and expectation of a faithful believer.

01:56:03

And then secondly, many times there's moral reasons that deal with this.

01:56:08

And I'm not necessarily speaking of sexual immorality. I just mean moral reasons of where someone is and their walk according to biblical ethics.

01:56:18

Ethics is what God tells us is our ought to. Morality is what we are declaring as our way of life.

01:56:28

And, of course, in Christianity we are called to marry our morality and to govern it by ethics.

01:56:36

And so I found that so many times there is an ethical underpinning issue in the issues of apostasy.

01:56:44

So, therefore, I try to do two things. And this is where I would just give my final answer to this.

01:56:52

I never fall into the trap, people say to me, well, I praise the Lord for people who try to win the person and not the argument in apologetics.

01:57:03

And I think that's a false dichotomy. I believe we can, by the power of the

01:57:09

Spirit, walk and chew gum at the same time. I try to win the person, because I know there's an issue in their life somewhere.

01:57:18

So I want to win the person and the argument. I want to win the argument for their sake and for the sake of young believers that are listening, that they know that that needs to be done.

01:57:31

Secondly, I try to win them. I think you can do both. That's why the Proverbs back -to -back verses says, do not answer a fool according to his folly, and then answer the fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own estimation.

01:57:47

Well, do you answer them or not answer them? The answer is, yes, you answer them, but not according to their worldview.

01:57:54

Answer them according to the Word of God, but don't answer them according to their worldview.

01:58:00

Win them and win the argument. And that's what God calls us to do, and that's what, in those cases, with such individuals.

01:58:09

And honestly, the ones I've been brought, and from reading of them, actually, I think they're a really more powerful antagonist, but no matter what, to the faith, but no matter what,

01:58:22

I think you answer from the authority of the Scriptures. That may mean you need to go away for a while and study and try to answer it rightly, and not just off the top of your head, but do so respectfully, thoughtfully, gently, yet boldly and courageously, winning the position to proclaim the truth, but also attempting to win them at one and the same time.

01:58:50

Amen, and we're out of time, and I want to repeat the website for Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

01:58:56

It's briarwood .org, briarwood .org, and also, if you want to find out more about the

01:59:03

Sufficient Word Conference, which is the upcoming QuakerTown conference on Reformed Theology at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in QuakerTown, Pennsylvania, November 11th and the 12th, featuring

01:59:14

Dan Doriani, Richard Phillips, and our guest today, Harry Reeder, go to alliancenet .org,

01:59:21

alliancenet .org, and click on Events. I want to thank you so much, Dr. Reeder, for being, once again, such a superb guest.

01:59:28

I want to thank everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater