WWUTT 325 Q&A Christmas Trees, Nativity Scenes, and Baby Jesus?

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December 8, 2016

Taking questions from listeners regarding the celebration of Christmas and depictions of Jesus among other topics. Visit wwutt.com for all of our videos!

00:00: Is it okay to have a Christmas tree in church? Is it alright that we have depictions of the baby
00:06: Jesus in a manger? Should we as Christians even be celebrating Christmas at all? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.
00:25: Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text is an online ministry dedicated to teaching the
00:32: Word of God in context, promoting sound doctrine while exposing the faulty. Here's your teacher,
00:38: Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. Hey, I got some Christmas questions as I asked for last week.
00:44: And so we'll be answering those today. And we still have, what, two more Friday episodes before we get to Christmas.
00:50: So I'm going to need some more Christmas questions. We've got some you want to ask. Send them to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.
00:57: And you can still ask any theology question that you would like to have answered. I've got a couple of them
01:03: I'm going to be responding to today. One comes from something that I mentioned in our
01:08: Bible study lesson this past week, and another having to do with a recent series of what videos.
01:14: I also got a couple of video suggestions by email this week. Jason suggested a what video on partial preterism.
01:21: That's a good topic. I talked about that in church a few weeks ago, actually, when we were discussing eschatology, or the study of last things in times.
01:29: Jeff sent an email and suggested a video on sinless perfectionism, also a doctrine referred to as entire sanctification.
01:38: That's practiced by the Methodist, Wesleyan, and Nazarene denominations. I was working on a script on that topic at one point.
01:45: I'll have to finish that up. You can see a what video on that in the future. Before I get to my
01:50: Christmas -themed questions here, I got a correction that I want to issue. This comes from Brian in Little Rock, Arkansas, responding to an answer that I gave last week.
02:00: He says, Pastor Gabe, regarding the discussion about different denominations and sects,
02:07: SECTS, you are correct in stating that the Apostolic Church is in error, but not for the reason that you state.
02:15: You said that they believe in the ongoing appointment of apostles. That is a tenet of the new
02:20: Apostolic Reformation, the late C. Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, Chuck Pierce, etc. This is generally adopted more in what are known as third -wave charismatic churches, first wave being the
02:30: Azusa Revival and the classical Pentecostal churches birthed out of it, second wave being the charismatic renewal in the mainline denominations.
02:38: The denomination that goes by the name Apostolic Church is a oneness Pentecostal group akin to the
02:43: United Pentecostal Church International that formed after Jesus' name -only baptism caused a split in Pentecostal groups in 1916 with denominations like the
02:52: Assemblies of God, Church of God in Christ, and Church of God Cleveland, Tennessee remaining in the Orthodox Trinitarian camp and the oneness believers leaving to form their own groups.
03:01: The Apostolic Church uses that name as part of their claim to be teaching doctrine and doing church like the apostles did in the churches they planted.
03:09: The confusion was probably caused by the name Apostolic since the new Apostolic Reformation currently gets a lot more press and its error comes up more in discussion in theological circles than does the older but less prominent oneness denomination.
03:23: Well, thank you for your correction, Brian, but what I had in mind was not the new Apostolic Reformation.
03:29: I do quite a bit of study in NAR and so I know the difference between them and the Apostolic Church. What I had in mind was actually the
03:37: Apostolic Church of Wales which was one of the groups that the Apostolic Church split away from.
03:45: And the reason for the split was not just because of Jesus' only baptism, another reason for the split was because the
03:51: Apostolic Church of Wales believed in continued apostolic appointment, whereas the Apostolic Church did not.
03:57: And so that was another reason for the split. And so that's what I was thinking of. There are apostolic churches out there or denominations that are called apostolic that do believe in apostolic appointment.
04:08: That's not just the new Apostolic Reformation that believes that way. That's just the more popular or pop culture movement that we tend to hear about the most.
04:17: So that's what I was thinking of when I made the mention of the Apostolic Church continuing in apostolic appointment.
04:24: But thank you for your lesson or your history on that particular denomination. I appreciate the correction.
04:31: Okay, this first question, first Christmas -themed question here comes from Chris in Nevada. And this may be the first question that I've ever answered on When We Understand the
04:40: Text that comes from Nevada. I don't know. I might be wrong in that, but I can't ever remember mentioning the state of Nevada before.
04:46: Anyway, so Chris asks, how would you recommend a Christian handle the discussion of celebrating the cultural traditions of Christmas, trees, lights, etc.
04:56: with someone who asserts they are actually celebrating paganism, i .e. Saturnalia? Well, first, let me respond to that question with a question.
05:03: Is Christmas a pagan holiday? No, of course not. It's Christmas. It's a celebration of the birth of Christ.
05:11: If it wasn't a celebration of Christ, our secular culture would be a lot more comfortable with the very name
05:17: Christmas. But it does have pagan origins, though, right? No, no, it doesn't.
05:23: In 274 AD, Emperor Aurelian made December 25th the birth date of Sol Invictus, the
05:29: Roman sun god. But there were also celebrations of Christ's birth in different places on different dates from as early as the late part of the first century.
05:39: And the early church fathers talked about celebrations of the birth of Christ going on.
05:45: There are differences of opinion on whether or not that should have been going on, but it had been occurring in the church prior to the third century.
05:54: After the council at Nicaea, which was at 325 AD, Constantine changed December 25th from celebrating the birth of the sun to celebrating the birth of the son of God.
06:06: All of the already existing Christian celebrations moved to a single day. December 25th was a pagan holiday for 62 years.
06:15: That's it. It's been a Christian holiday for 1700 years. That just happens to be on the day of a former pagan feast.
06:24: But the two are completely unrelated. Christmas has a rich history in the church.
06:29: Martin Luther is said to be the first to decorate a tree with lights. Of course, at that time, they were candles that would have made a
06:36: Christmas tree a significantly worse fire hazard. Christmas carols celebrating the coming of our
06:43: Lord have impacted the world over. You have the giving of presents that comes from the
06:48: Magi bringing gifts to the Savior and also the gift of the Savior himself to mankind. That's why we give gifts at Christmastime.
06:56: Forbidding the celebration of Christmas that actually has a history too. In 1647, a group of Puritans forbid traditional expressions of merriment.
07:06: Heaven forbid. And they canceled Christmas. December 25th, 1647, they ordered shops to stay open and churches to stay closed.
07:15: And any minister caught preaching on Christmas Day was arrested. Yay, Theotomy.
07:22: The Bible says nothing about Christmas Day, but it does say not to argue about days.
07:28: Romans 14, five through six. One person esteems one day is better than another, while another esteems all days alike.
07:36: Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day observes it in honor of the
07:42: Lord. Now, I shared that verse with somebody who was against the celebration of Christmas, and they responded by saying, no, no, you're taking that verse out of context.
07:50: That's talking about Sabbath days. And I said, no, it's talking about the observance of holy days.
07:57: Another word for that would be holidays. So yes, Romans 14, five through six absolutely can apply to Christmas Day.
08:04: So how should we respond to this? Well, if you want to observe Christmas Day, then be respectful of the person who doesn't want to because the
08:13: Bible says nothing about it being necessary for a Christian to have to observe December 25th as the birth of Christ or even to celebrate a day for the, you know, pick a day and say, we're going to celebrate on that day the birth of our
08:27: Savior. Quite frankly, we should be celebrating the giving of our Lord Jesus Christ to this earth to die on the cross for our sins every single day, not just December 25th, but every day of the year.
08:40: And I think that you would agree with me on that point. So the person that observes Christmas Day observes it in honor of the
08:47: Lord and the person who doesn't, who abstains, who considers all days alike also does so to honor the
08:54: Lord. So let's not let's not squabble over that. Don't even look at a person as being strange because they would recognize that day or not recognize that day.
09:03: Let us all be unified in glorifying God every single day of the year.
09:08: How about that? So anyway, a more direct response to your question,
09:13: Chris, would be answer in love, answer with gentleness and respect, maybe know something a little bit about the history of the holiday so it makes a good discussion point.
09:22: But don't quarrel over opinions. Also a point made there in Romans chapter 14.
09:29: This next question comes from Rose in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. She says, Hello, Pastor Gabe. I have a
09:34: Christmas theme question for your podcast, and it's a short one. What are your thoughts on churches displaying big, beautiful Christmas trees up front in the sanctuary on the stage?
09:44: Whatever. Also called a platform or a chancel, by the way. Sorry, I'm being a know -it -all now.
09:51: I have been in many churches where a Christmas tree and all its glory is beautifully decorated with shiny wrapped boxes underneath.
09:58: While somewhere down the hall, a small nativity scene is displayed. This seems wrong, but I'd like to know your thoughts.
10:05: Well, interestingly enough, Rose, we have two Christmas trees displayed on the platform in our church and no nativity scene.
10:13: And I am opposed to a nativity scene being displayed in the sanctuary. First of all, let me explain the
10:20: Christmas trees. We have two trees on opposite sides of our chancel, and the purpose of those trees is this.
10:27: We have a small little kids connection or a little kid sermon that we do at the beginning of every church service or toward the beginning of the church service.
10:35: Every Sunday between Thanksgiving and Christmas, we will give the kids what are called
10:40: Chris Mons, a monogram of Christ. They are ornaments, and each one of these ornaments has to do with something in the
10:47: Christian tradition. Like, for example, there will be an ornament of a fish or an ornament of a dove, a crown referring to the crown that we will get when we get to heaven someday to be with our
10:58: Lord. One of the ornaments I know is an anchor. It refers to the verse in Hebrews 619 that Christ is our sure and steadfast anchor of the soul.
11:08: And so each one of these ornaments having something to do with the Christian tradition, we will explain it to the kids, we'll read scripture to them, and then they will take these ornaments, something tangible in their hands that they can hold, and they will hang the ornaments on those trees.
11:23: So that's a tradition that we do in our church between Thanksgiving and Christmas. We don't do the advent wreath.
11:30: That's just not just not a regular thing for us. Not wrong to do that. It's just not for us. You know, the wreath with the five candles on it.
11:37: That's not one of the traditions that we practice. And to explain not having a nativity scene, there's two reasons why
11:45: I'm opposed to the display of a nativity scene in the sanctuary. Number one, because there's a risk of idol worship.
11:51: You have the baby Jesus being displayed over there, and there is that weakness of the flesh to want to look at the baby
11:58: Jesus and think that we're worshiping that. And that's something that goes on in Catholic services. Somebody that has grown up in a
12:04: Catholic background in particular, they might have a weakness to want to look over at the baby Jesus and think that that's where their worship is going.
12:11: You notice if you've ever been in a Roman Catholic church, all the idols that they have around that they worship.
12:18: So that's one of the reasons why we don't display a nativity scene in our sanctuary. The second reason is because, quite frankly, the nativity scene is inaccurate.
12:28: You have Mary and Joseph in a barn with animals all around and the three wise men and the shepherds all being displayed there at the same time.
12:37: And it's really not an accurate depiction. It's believed that the nativity scene came about in the 13th century and St.
12:43: Francis of Assisi was the first one to display it. And they're nice.
12:49: You can display one at home. You can have one in your church somewhere. I just don't think it should be displayed in the sanctuary.
12:55: Some of the myths that we tend to believe about the Christmas story have been perpetuated by the inaccurate display of the nativity scene.
13:05: When you read Matthew chapter one and two or Luke chapter one and two, what is being explained there as how the birth of Christ occurred is really not what we see in the nativity scene.
13:17: So it's a nice display. I'm just not in favor of having it in the sanctuary.
13:23: So, Rose, that would be my reasoning. We do have a what video on that, by the way. If you look up the what video,
13:29: Jesus was born in a barn kind of explain some of those common myths that have been generated by the nativity scene.
13:37: All right. This next question comes from Michelle in Louisiana, and this also has to do with nativity scene.
13:43: She says our nativity scenes, Christmas ornaments, Christmas pageants, et cetera, which portray the baby
13:48: Jesus with a figurine, a doll, a live baby pictures, et cetera, breaking the second commandment, even though the portrayal of the baby
13:56: Jesus isn't being worshipped. That's the key part there. All right. This would also apply to artwork of Jesus, pictures of Jesus in children's
14:05: Bibles, flannel graphs, Bible story pictures used for teaching children, et cetera.
14:11: Some of my reform friends believe any sort of pictorial, artistic or dramatic representation of Jesus breaks the second commandment, even if it's not an object of worship.
14:21: I respect their right to believe and practice that. I'm just not sure how the context of Exodus 24 through six supports that idea.
14:27: And all the cross reference verses I've found all mention idol worship. It would seem to me that to be consistent in saying no representations of Jesus, they would have to say no representations of anything, because verse four says you shall not make for yourself any likeness of anything.
14:45: No photographs of anything, no drawings, paintings or sculpture of anything, no Xeroxing anything, nothing.
14:51: Technically, that passage doesn't even mention making a likeness of God or Jesus. It only talks about making likenesses of created things.
15:00: Your thoughts? Well, Michelle, quite frankly, I agree with you. But let's go ahead and look at the verse here and then so we can see it in context and we'll go from there.
15:08: So Exodus chapter 20 is where God issues the Ten Commandments heard by the nation of Israel gathered there at Mount Sinai.
15:16: And God spoke all these words saying, I am the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
15:23: You shall have no other gods before me. And here's where the second commandment begins at verse four.
15:29: You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.
15:39: You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous
15:45: God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.
15:52: But showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
15:57: We have those that same commandment repeated again in Deuteronomy, chapter five, verses eight through 10.
16:03: And there it's given exactly the same way. So by what is being stated there in that commandment, it is saying that nothing should be made for the purpose of worship.
16:14: You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous
16:19: God. Now, note there in verse four, God said, you shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above.
16:29: However, God instructed Israel to make a carved likeness of something that was in heaven above.
16:35: It was the carved images of the cherubim that were in a prostrate position on the top of the
16:42: Ark of the Covenant, bowed to the center. And then it was there in the very middle, the top of the mercy seat where the presence of God would dwell.
16:49: So God even instructed them there to make two images of something that was in heaven above.
16:56: So, again, very specifically, this is about worship. It is not saying that we cannot make depictions of Christ.
17:04: I'm kind of opposed to the idea of making a picture of what God the Father might look like, but I don't think it is somehow against the rules to display some sort of depiction of Christ, because we're told in Philippians chapter two that Jesus took on the likeness of a servant.
17:22: So when we depict Jesus, are we doing so reverently and respectfully with the purpose of giving him the glory and not looking at that as a focus or an object of worship?
17:33: As long as we are doing it in a right way, then we are not breaking the second commandment.
17:38: And I'll tell you, this is something that has come up here when we understand the text. We've received emails from people that are saying,
17:44: I love your videos, but I can't display them anywhere because you show depictions of Jesus. You've got pictures of Jesus in your videos, so I wish you weren't showing those things and then
17:53: I would be able to share the videos. Well, if you're convicted in that way, then don't share the video. I'm not going to ask you to go against the conviction that you have in your heart and therefore sin by sharing that video.
18:04: But I'm also not going to feel convicted by that issuance in assuming that I'm doing something that breaks the second commandment.
18:12: I don't believe that I am. I've studied that very intently and have concluded that what we are showing there in these what videos is for educational purposes only, giving all the glory to God.
18:23: It is not presenting a picture of Christ as an object of worship. As long as you're not doing that, you're not breaking the second commandment.
18:30: All right, next question here. This comes from Velma and it has to do with our recent series of what videos regarding Bethel Church.
18:40: I'm just going to play one of those videos and then get to Velma's question here. Using glitter and fog machines,
18:49: Bethel Church and Jesus Culture make these glory clouds during their worship services, which they claim is the
18:54: Holy Spirit. I've wondered if it's okay to for us to run to a corner of a room and stand and watch and take pictures.
19:00: I think he rather enjoys it. I think someone might say, well, do you know for certain they're using a fog machine?
19:07: What's your proof that these are man -made tricks? And the answer is the Bible. If the glory of God was appearing in their church, no one would be cheering and pointing.
19:15: They would be dead. When God spoke to the people of Israel from Mount Sinai, they were terrified. When the glory of God passed in front of Moses, God put him in the cleft of a rock and covered him because had he seen
19:26: God in all his glory, it would have killed him. After Moses had been in God's presence, even in this way, his face was so bright, people were too afraid to come near him.
19:34: Hebrews 1 says, there was a time when God spoke to us in many ways by the prophets. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his
19:41: Son. Jesus is the radiance of the glory of God. Paul said that the light of the knowledge of the glory of God is in the face of Jesus Christ.
19:50: We know God's glory when the word of Christ is spoken, not by manufacturing his presence with cheap tricks.
19:56: God said, this is to whom I will look, he who is repentant and who trembles at my word. The Holy Spirit is to Bethel Church in Jesus' culture what
20:03: Jesus Christ is to the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe in a Holy Spirit of their own making, not the
20:09: Holy Spirit of God whom we see and hear from in the pages of Scripture when we understand the text.
20:50: Well, Velma, I could spend a lot of time on this question.
20:55: I'm going to try to be brief with this instead of going into direct explanations behind Word of Faith and New Apostolic Reformation teachings, both of which are heresies, by the way.
21:06: Let's go ahead and label them that way. There is a difference in the way that we judge a teacher and the way that we judge a person who is following that teaching.
21:15: There's going to be more grace shown to the one who is following false teaching than the person who is actually teaching it.
21:21: Remember James 3 .1 that says, not many of you should aspire to become teachers, my brothers, for you know that teachers will be judged with greater strictness.
21:30: Those who follow false teaching, it could be that they're being led astray and their hearts have not yet become hardened to the truth, in which case, if we preach to them the true gospel, if we reveal to them how the teaching that they're listening to is false, the expectation is going to be that they will turn from that false teaching and follow in the true and sound words of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
21:53: It could be that their heart desires such false teaching. They have itching ears accumulating for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, in which case, the false teacher is a judgment for the condition that is in their heart.
22:07: We should still preach the sound words of the gospel to them and hope that they would turn away from the false teaching and back to the sound words of Christ.
22:15: But the false teacher that they're following is a judgment for the condition of their heart. Here's what we read in 2 Timothy 4,
22:21: I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead and by his appearing in his kingdom, preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke and exhort with complete patience and teaching.
22:40: That's important. It is important to consider that we should be patient, be patient.
22:46: In chapter 2, the apostle Paul talked about how the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach patiently enduring evil, and God may grant repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.
23:01: So we need to approach these things patiently. You also have Peter saying in 1
23:06: Peter 3, verse 15, be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within you, but do this with gentleness and respect.
23:14: So it's with a patient and loving approach that we make to these things, knowing that a person's mind is probably not going to change right away.
23:21: But as we continue to expose them to the true and sound words of Christ, that a transformation will occur in their heart.
23:27: The apostle Paul continues there, 2 Timothy 4, for the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
23:45: As for you, always be sober minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
23:53: So I've got one more question I want to get to here. I hope, Velma, that that is enough. That would encourage you in how you share the gospel with those that are still wandering in false teaching.
24:03: I was a person that used to follow in false teaching about 11, 12 years ago. It was sound men of God that came alongside me and said, what you're listening to is false and you need to come back to the sound words of the scriptures.
24:17: I am thankful for their direction and it did indeed bring me to the sound words of Christ that I am walking in today.
24:24: Last question here comes from Lynette. She says, hi, Pastor Gabe. I listened to the podcast on husband and wives and was wondering how to handle a situation.
24:34: My husband is a believer, but does not lead me or our family spiritually. He says he doesn't know how or how to learn.
24:42: He doesn't spend time that I know of in God's word and it's up to me to instill the biblical truths to our children.
24:49: I've asked him to obey God in this and to pray and I pray about it, but I get so frustrated about it too.
24:56: Could you help me please? Well, Lynette, some of what I just instructed Velma in is going to apply to you as well.
25:02: Endure this patiently and do this with gentleness and respect and follow those instructions that Peter gave in first Peter chapter three, verses one through seven, as to how a godly wife is to deal with a husband who is not walking in godliness.
25:17: Now he may be a believer, but it's not godly of him to be neglecting his responsibility and how he is supposed to be discipling his family.
25:26: So do this patiently and do this with gentleness and respect.
25:32: I would talk to a pastor because you could have some men of your church that would be able to come alongside him and try to find out, hey, brother, how are you doing with how you're leading your family?
25:43: And if he has been honest enough with you to say, I don't know how to do it, then I hope that he would be honest with a pastor or the elders of his church or the teachers there in his church and say the same, you know,
25:53: I just don't know how to do this. And so some men in his church might be able to hold him accountable to the commands that have been given to him to be the spiritual leader in his home and also to give him guidance in how he can do that.
26:08: Another way that you might be able to help, subscribe to Table Talk Magazine from Ligonier Ministries.
26:14: It's got a daily devotional thought every day going through a particular book in the Bible. In 2016, they've been going through the book of Mark.
26:21: I'm sure they're going to go through a different book in 2017. But with a subscription to that magazine, it only costs a dollar an issue.
26:29: You will have good teaching that your husband can just read to you and to the kids just reading from the
26:36: Bible and the devotional thought that is given there in Table Talk Magazine. So that's one recommendation that I could make for you.
26:43: As we wrap these things up here, Lynette, let me pray for you and we'll close this out.
26:49: Our great God, we thank you so much for the instructions that have been given to us in your words so that we might know how to walk soundly and faithfully according to the commands of Christ.
26:59: Jesus said to his disciples, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the
27:05: Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
27:10: And we know what Christ has commanded of us when we come to your word.
27:16: And so, Lord, I pray that Lynette's husband would be convicted in this way, that he would know that Christ is commanded in his word, that he be the spiritual leader of his home.
27:25: And so he would do that, leading his wife and leading his children in the knowledge of the word.
27:31: I pray that we would all be convicted to understand what role we are supposed to play in the body of Christ, whether it is a role that we're supposed to play because of our sex, or the role that we are supposed to have because we are older and supposed to be mentoring the younger, or the role that we're supposed to have because we have a particular spiritual gift.
27:51: May we be obedient to the command and the call of the word of God. May we be disciplined according to these scriptures, writing these words upon our heart, having our minds shaped by them, so that we would be conformed more to the image of Christ our
28:06: Savior. And it's in his name that we pray. Amen. This is When We Understand the Text with Pastor Gabe Hughes.
28:12: There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours. But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family.
28:21: Find a good, Gospel -teaching, Christ -centered church to worship with this weekend, and join us again Monday for more
28:27: Bible study, When We Understand the Text. Good?