March 31, 2017 Show with James N. Anderson on “Why Should I Believe Christianity?” PLUS Buz Taylor on “Postmillenialism & the Modern Prophecy Movement”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this

last day of March, March 31st, 2017.

In studio with me is my co -host the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Hello once again.

And I am so delighted to have on the program today for the very first time a

Dr. James N. Anderson.

Dr. Anderson is an ordained minister in the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church and he

came to Reform Theological Seminary from Edinburgh, Scotland, and specializes in

philosophical theology, religious epistemology, and Christian apologetics.

His doctoral theses at the University of Edinburgh explored the paradoxical

nature of certain Christian doctrines and the implications for the rationality of the Christian faith.

His research and writing has also focused on the presuppositionalism of Cornelius Fantel,

particularly his advocacy of the transcendental argument.

Dr. Anderson has a long -standing concern to bring the Reformed theological

tradition into greater dialogue with contemporary analytic philosophy.

Before studying philosophy, Dr. Anderson also earned a PhD in computer simulation from the

University of Edinburgh.

He is a member of the Society of Christian Philosophers, the British Society for the

Philosophy of Religion, and the Evangelical Philosophical Society.

Prior to joining RTS in Charlotte, North Carolina, Dr. Anderson served as an

assistant pastor at the historic Charlotte Chapel in Edinburgh, where he engaged in

regular preaching, teaching, and pastoral ministry.

He is active now in service at the Ballantyne Presbyterian Church in Charlotte, North Carolina,

and he is married to Catriona and they have three children, and it's my honor and privilege to

welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron for the very first time ever, Dr. James N. Anderson.

Thank you so much, Chris, great to be here.

And I apologized if I mispronounced anything.

Well, I was wondering about that, Edinburgh.

No, that's the way, isn't it the way the.

Scots, pretty close, isn't that how they pronounce it?

That's right, yeah, Edinburgh.

Yeah, wow, I stand corrected.

What did you think it was, Edinburgh?

That's the way that they actually, there's a city in Indiana spelled exactly the same way, and it's Edinburgh.

I heard that Scotty in.

Star Trek didn't really have a Scotch accent, that was all just part of his acting, and I was thinking that you were doing a

pretty good job if you were.

Doing the same thing.

And is it Catriona, did I pronounce your wife's name.

Correctly?

It's pretty close, but she tells me that even I don't pronounce it.

Right.

That's interesting.

Well, before we even go into the discussion at hand, I want to hear more about you,

about your upbringing as a child, what religion was in your home, if any, and how

providentially our Sovereign Lord drew you to himself, and how you embraced the true Christ and true gospel

of the.

Scriptures.

Yeah, I would love to share that with you.

So I was blessed to be raised in a Christian home.

On my mother's side, strong evangelical family.

Her parents, my grandfather, who I never knew, and my grandmother were both

evangelical Anglicans, so I had that background on my

mother's side.

My mother's always been

a nominal Church, but my father, when he married my

mother, really came to embrace personal Christian faith.

And so, and we, in the early part of my

childhood,

wishy

-washy,

moralistic,

evangelical

Baptist

Church in a nearby town,

and that's where I really became, I think, conscious of my

teenage

years.

I could answer Apology 101, I could

give up Christ in Luke 11,

23, he who is

not

for me.

No middle way

in my life.

I've come ups and

downs for many, many believers.

The first two years, I went to the University.

They grabbed me by the

scruff of the neck, took

me to evangelical Baptist Church,

and that was transformative to me,

and really set me on a path, once and for all, to Christian ministry, where I am today.

You know, your bio says something fascinating about your

heartfelt desire to see a Reformed theology

really become a part of a dialogue with contemporary analytic

philosophy.

If you could give us more of concrete examples of.

What you mean by that.

Sure, yeah.

Well, it's a way of metaphysics, the

ultimate nature of reality,

epistemology, how we know what we...

It's a way of approaching these questions that

is very system, wants to

precision in logical form and in the vocabulary used, and the

analytic philosophy tradition isn't

distinctively

Christian.

I mean, there

are

Arminians

of some strata,

many of them have evangelical convictions in the broad sense, but

I've always felt it's

what I'm getting at is a

robust conviction.

Now, you're also an ordained minister, as I.

Mentioned, in the ARP, which is the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church.

Can you tell us something about that denomination?

Yeah, that is a denomination here in the United States.

It's concentrated mainly in the Carolinas, but

we have Presbyterians

down in

Florida.

In the 18th

century, there

were two

of the

mainline

another

group, when

they got here,

had in

common and

had joined together in four...

Yes, I have some

friends who are a part of the ARP, Cy

Tenbruggenkate, I'm.

Not sure if you're familiar with him.

He's a presuppositionalist apologist up in Canada.

He is a part of one of your Canadian congregations in Toronto, I believe.

Okay.

And I know that Dr. Sinclair Ferguson, while he was still here in the States,

in South Carolina, he was pastoring an ARP Church.

Yep.

And a man who I hold very near and dear to my heart, who is a great blessing

to me during a dark period of my life, is Pastor Lawrence C. Young,

who is the of the Brookside ARP Church in Boone, North Carolina.

I happened to be in Boone, North Carolina years ago when I had

lapsed into a serious abuse of alcohol and went to a

ministry there in Boone called Hebron Colony, which I highly recommend to everybody who either

themselves has an addiction to the sin of alcoholism or if

you have someone that you love or know someone very close

that has that problem, I highly recommend that ministry, Hebron Colony Ministries in Boone, North Carolina.

But Pastor Larry was the only Reformed pastor

in the nearby area and he would come and visit me while I was there and it was just, it was an

enormous blessing with importance that is

too great for me to even describe in words.

He may just view them as very simple visitations but they were very meaningful to me and I'm so glad

that we have maintained a long -distance friendship to this day.

I'm not actually gonna give Pastor Larry a plug, his website is

boonebrooksidechurch .org that's

boonebrooksidechurch .org and that is for the Brookside

Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church in Boone, North Carolina.

Well what led you to write this book Why Should I Believe Christianity?

There are other many other apologetic books

meant not only for unbelievers but meant to equip Christians to evangelize

unbelievers.

Why did you see this as a needed addition to those many other volumes already on

the shelves of Christian libraries?

Yeah.

That's a

good

question.

A friend of mine

would approach me

looking for someone to edit or to co -edit a series

of apologetics books and around 10 to 12 in number and

these apologetics

books

were easy to understand,

avoiding Christian jargon,

anxiety,

whether that be, and so I

did a little bit of and family

members to find out what some of these questions would be and I was trying to

gather.

We drew up a

sketch, issues

like why does

God, but we

wanted

one that

was

a lot of detail

but basically making a positive case for

Christian

apologetics, but

also I felt

that while

there are as

Christianity in quite the way that I thought it ought to be made and in a way that

were believers

or a hand that you could literally.

Excellent.

I want to give our listeners.

Our email address right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. James N.

Anderson.

The email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if

you live outside of the USA.

I want to before I even start asking you questions about this book, I want to read a

couple of glowing commendations for this book that have been written by

two men that have been guests on Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the past.

R. Albert Moeller Jr. who is president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

He says of this book, Why Should I Believe Christianity? by our guest James N. Anderson.

In a post -Christian age the need for faithful theologically rich apologetic resources has never been

more important.

Indeed it could be argued that the task of apologetics has never been more pressing or more

urgent.

This is a critical time of cultural and intellectual transition.

The Christian ministry taken as a whole must be understood as an apologetic calling.

This is why books like Why Should I Believe Christianity deserve careful reading by pastors and lay

people alike.

In this book believers will find a compelling defense of the Christian worldview and the resources

necessary to stand firm in a faithful and a faithless age.

And as I said that was Dr. R. Albert Moeller and also someone else who has been a guest on this program

several times, Dr. Michael J. Kruger, president and professor of New Testament at

Reform Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, who was actually a pastoral

intern years ago when he was still a Reformed Baptist at the church where I am now a member,

Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

But Dr. Kruger says in a world filled with skepticism, relativism, and secular

dogmatism it is easy to doubt what we believe.

Is Christianity really true?

In this fantastic book James Anderson offers one of the clearest and most

compelling explanations for the truth of Christianity that I have ever heard.

You will be reassured and strengthened by this book.

Read it multiple times, then give it to a friend.

That's a pretty powerful commendation by Dr. Michael J. Kruger, quite a brilliant scholar

in his own right.

And well you know something, I am going to take a couple

of listener questions since we've already got quite a number of them that have quickly come in.

I'm going to start with a listener who is actually in your neck of the woods in

North Carolina, Casey, who is originally from the Philippines, who is now in

Kannapolis, North Carolina.

He says, I have a very important question for Dr. Anderson.

How can we use both evidential and presuppositional apologetics together and use both of their

strengths to defend the faith and preach the gospel?

Why does it have to be an either or some reformed presuppositionalism, advocates

trash talk, any kind of evidence sharing?

Can't we use evidence and presuppositionalism both?

Well I think that you would agree that presuppositionalists do use evidence, but.

If you could comment.

Yeah, yeah, I'd be glad to, and that's a great question, important question about apologetic method, and

certainly we don't want to be more restrictive in our method

than we have to be.

Why would we cut off one

hand?

I regard myself as a presuppositionalist.

I've been very much influenced.

My starting point for analyzing

unbelief is analyzing unbelieving presuppositions, the assumptions that lie behind the

surface comments, and doing an internal critique of the unbelievers

world.

Everyone

has presuppositions, and there has to be

a sort of head and we can we can

examine each by considering their presupposition.

Now where does evidence come from?

Oh yes, in fact, I think a presuppositionalist wants to say, or ought

to say, that everything God is

a God -created, God -directed universe, then there is nothing but,

and you can actually approach that in a presuppositionalist way by our

ability to comprehend and use evidence.

You have evidences, and

scientific facts can

be incorporated into a presuppositional method, as long as you recognize

that evidences don't speak for themselves, and that people, so

while I'll be happy to use evidence to

use evidence fine -tuning

of the universe in

a naturalistic framework or some other

kind of,

then they're

going to be

re -into that.

Well thank you KC, and please

give us your full mailing address in.

Kannapolis, North Carolina, because you have just won a free copy of Why Should I Believe

Christianity by our guest Dr. James N. Anderson, compliments of our friends at Christian Focus

Publications, and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CV

for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service dot com, CVBBS .com.

We'll be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to IronTrap and Zion, and we thank

Todd and Patty Jennings from the bottom of our hearts for their faithful support of IronTrap and Zion radio.

Going back to something about what you were just saying about presuppositionalism, I know

that a lot of presuppositionalism is weighted in the truth that is revealed in

Romans 1, about how nature is even sufficient to

reveal to man the truth that God exists and holds him accountable, although we need special revelations

still to know the gospel and so forth and other things that are vital to salvation in the

Christian life.

But when the Romans 1, when Paul, the inspired author of

Romans 1, tells us that all men know the truth and suppress it,

does that mean, like for instance, there is an old saying, there's no atheists and foxholes.

Does that mean that there is literally a conscious battle going on in the minds

of those who reject God that we, not being mind readers, cannot

necessarily know?

Like for instance, I did an interview not long ago with Dr. Larry Taunton, or Larry

Taunton, who is the author of The Faith of Christopher Hitchens, when he basically was

just discussing his friendship with the atheist who died as an atheist,

went directly to the grave knowing that he was dying of esophageal

cancer and never repented and never came to faith in Christ in

spite of the fact that he had friends who were Christians regularly

evangelizing him and teaching him the gospel and debating him, as

Larry Taunton had done.

But was Christopher Hitchens, does that word from Paul in

Romans 1, does that teach us that he actually consciously knew

even to the point of death that he was rejecting the truth, or when Paul says that we

run away from that truth, when we suppress that truth is really what he says,

can people forget after decades of rebellion what this truth is?

I don't.

Know if I made sense there, I was rambling a lot.

No, I understand the question.

Well, the

way I

approach it is,

if I'm

thinking about how should I

understand the unbeliever and the claim of an atheist,

my starting point is going to be what

is the Bible, and the unbeliever

is not God, and may not speak

truly or may be confused about some really deep matters.

So I ask the question, what does, in

my

view, so that the

unbeliever

internally, at some level, does have knowledge, does there

is that, but

the

complex dynamic

of any strife

to delineate

many years ago on the issue of self -deception, and what it means to be self -deceived, and he

applied that to the question

of

whether belief

arguments or

evidence, and

that

leads to

quite

psychological

recognition, because

there

are going

to be again, and

that's I think somewhat

like the

recognition,

maybe as far as they're

concerned, quite sincere in their belief, but we, I think, have to insist that while they may be

and that God

knows.

Well, I know that my co -host, Reverend Buzz Taylor,

lit up like.

A Christmas tree when you mentioned Greg Bonson, because he is Buzz's

most beloved hero of the 20th century, I believe.

Well, one of them, definitely, but actually even.

Before you said Greg Bonson, you said Cornelius Van Til, and I'm sure that

there are a lot of our listeners who have no idea who you're talking about or what they

believe, so could you just briefly introduce us?

Yes, if you.

Could do that, Dr. Anderson, when we come back from a break, because we have to go to a break, we're already four minutes past when we should have gone

to one, but I wouldn't dare stop you where you were.

So we're gonna go to a break right now and we'll have Dr. Anderson answer Reverend Buzz's question, and also if

you'd like to join us with a question of your own, those of you listening, our email address is ChrisArnson at gmail

.com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

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Because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the first 90 minutes of the broadcast is Dr. James

N. Anderson, specialist in philosophical theology, religious epistemology, and Christian

apologetics at Reform Theological Seminary, and we are discussing his book, Why Should I Believe

Christianity?

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail

.com, and I thank all of you who are still waiting for your questions to be asked and answered for your patience.

We will get to you as soon as we can, but before we do, Reverend Buzz Taylor wanted you to introduce to our

audience Cornelius Van Til and Greg Bonson, since their names are really synonymous

with presuppositional theology or apologetics.

If you could.

Sure.

Yeah, I'd be glad to.

So Cornelius Van Til was a pioneer of what

is now called presuppositional apologetics, although he would have claimed

that he was

one of the founding faculty members of

and

his approach was

of methods of a

generic evidentialist is the idea

that is neutral and that

you can use

those as

a starting point

to build a case for Christianity that we trust will persuade

any, and Van Til had a number of issues with that.

One was the idea that there could be any such thing as evidence that are

just given.

He

argued that

while

there are

suppositions of

use evidences, you can appeal to a

neutral starting point.

Believers, and you have to actually,

you can't make sense of evidence or anything else,

whereas the

belief

behind transcendental

argument

is that

you

need to make

moral

judge, moral

universe, and

to make, in many respects, a very

pioneering approach.

Exactly Van

Til's, you

have

different,

but in my view,

they're all hitting on the same core insight, namely, that only can

make.

Now, not to belabor the issue of historical figures connected with apologetics, but how does Gordon Clark

fit into this mix?

Because I realized there was a parting of ways between Dr. Clark and.

Dr. Van Til.

Yeah, so, Gordon Clark was an

American, and he is regarded as a

presuppositionalist as well, and he is in the sense that his method in apologetics

focused on the presuppositions of the unbeliever.

He was much more negative about the

use of evidence.

In fact, on my reading, he denied the reliability of sense

experience altogether.

He was an anti -empiricist.

So, you can imagine that your method in

apologetic evidences, but his worldviews

was a

little different.

Some engaged to

defend that

world.

That is, he

basically

had any

intent, the

Christian world, logically, and

that leads to a

somewhat engaged in it.

Well, thank you, and we do have.

A question from a listener in Bakersfield, California, Daniel, who says, I have been in

conversations where the other person starts to put Christianity on the shelf with

every other religion out there.

They make the case that they are all the same.

What is a compelling argument that you would give for the uniqueness of Christianity among other

world religions?

Yeah, well, we do encounter that

a lot in our

day, don't we?

And that's part of

it.

We find ourselves on a shelf, like some of you like screws,

some of you like crosses, just pull it off, and whatever suits you.

The main problem with that, that we need to correct, is that it shows

claims of these,

denying all

of them by their own lights, because Christians themselves cannot

cannot accept claims of

Islam, and the same

goes for a Muslim.

A Muslim, by his own commitments, cannot

accept, denies some of them.

So, really what we need to

do first, educate people about what the major

claims are.

In fact, in my book, I just use one simple

example.

I say, Christianity and Islam make contradictory claims

about Jesus.

Christianity claims that Jesus is the divine incarnate son of God, who died on

the cross, and denies every point of that.

It teaches that Jesus was a miracle, and therefore he was a

God.

One of the fundamental points of Christian faith, is that Islam denies them, and so it

makes no logical sense.

It doesn't really matter.

And you

find that their conception of God is fundamentally different than Christianity.

Christianity teaches that there is an absolute, transcendent, personal

creation that exists in three persons, but

that's essential, whereas Eastern

religion

is often—and

again, these

are matters

of self -interest.

Yes.

I can remember years ago on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio program that I hosted out of two

radio stations in New York, when I had a debate, a live debate between a Muslim and

a Christian apologist on my program, and they were both with me in the studio, and I asked the Muslim

debater, I said, the Roman Catholic catechism says that Catholics

and Muslims adore the one true God.

I said to him, do you actually adore the same God as Roman Catholics or

Christianity in general?

He said, absolutely not.

So obviously that claim of the Roman Catholic catechism, the modern catechism, is utterly

false, that they, together with the Muslims, adore the same one true God.

It's nonsense.

They do not worship a Trinitarian God, and all the things that you said

attest to the fact that they have a different God.

But we have to go to another break right now, and by the way, Daniel, in Bakersfield, California, you've also won a free copy of Why

Should I Believe Christianity, so make sure we have your full mailing address.

We're going to be right back after these messages, so don't go away.

There's more to come with our guest on this fascinating subject.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today for the first 90 minutes with

about 25 minutes to go is Dr. James N. Anderson.

And we are addressing his book, Why Should I Believe Christianity?

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. Anderson, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

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Well, we are now back into our discussion with our guest today,

Dr. James N. Anderson and the discussion of his book, Why Should I Believe Christianity?

And we have another North Carolinian who has written us a question.

Seth in Randleman, North Carolina.

He says, I enjoy listening to several of your lectures on the Reformed Theological Seminary

app, Dr. Anderson.

What is your interpretation of the verse don't cast your pearls before swine from

Matthew 7 -6?

How does someone determine when this verse applies?

If you could, Dr. Anderson.

Wow, that's a great question.

New

Testament

interpretation is

not my immediate area of expertise but I think that

with any precious thing you

do maltreatment.

Now, if we held that as an absolute principle we might not preach the gossip

it might be ridiculed or rejected.

It's not to say, don't waste your time with unbelievers.

But I think it is telling us that there comes a time when you

realize that the words that you are speaking the arguments that you are making

the appeals that you are making although they are meant in the best of faith

they are being

like casting pearls before swine.

They're only going to be trampled on and debased.

And so we're required to strike a balance between what

in my church tradition we call the free and indiscreet we preach the gospel, we sow

the seed widely and indiscriminately knowing that only

in we do that

gospel proclamation but also there are certain

contexts or forums maybe

already and so

we

need

to apply wisdom in that.

We don't continue

to persist in

exactly

where you are

but it's important to know that there is a line and that we need to be thinking about whether it is

appropriate to be.

Now wouldn't you say that this is another one of those wonderful examples as to

why reform theology is so precious.

Because we do not have to be filled with anxiety

if we were to cease in our evangelism of a certain person or group of people because

they are non -stop unrepentantly mocking what we say

in fact perhaps even doing more than just verbally mocking us.

They may be threatening or actually conducting physical harm in some way

or anything like that.

When we move on when we kick the dust off our sandals as it were if they are truly of

God's elect we know that someone else will come at the right time and that they will plant and water seeds and

God will give the increase.

But the salvation of these individuals that we have encountered does not hang

on our evangelism to them.

Am I right?

Yeah, that is exactly right and that is one of the preciously practical

consequences of the doctrines of grace that on the one hand we have

confidence that whether

that will

be rejected or

exasperated as we can be but

the rejection of

the gospel that is the

default response of an unregenerate unbeliever.

Now they may be polite about it in a certain cultural context but that is the expected response

so we shouldn't be disheartened.

We do have confidence that

you mentioned where we maybe share the gospel with

someone and they mock it, they reject it, then

as you say either someone else will come along later or

it's only a matter of later

time that the Holy Spirit and actually perhaps of

that delay and

we can't predict how things

will change.

Yes, in fact an example of that.

That I can remember clearly is a friend of my late wife

this woman who was a widow she was not a Christian she needed

furniture moved out of her apartment because she was being evicted and I got a bunch

of folks from my church to volunteer to help this woman move her furniture out.

And there was a member of my church precious brother in Christ but I think he lacked tact

and he very first words out of his mouth when he met this woman

he said to her hi my name is Bill do you know where you would spend eternity if you die tonight.

And she was terrified she thought this guy was a nut and she pulled me aside.

Is this guy a serial killer or something.

I mean what's the deal with him.

And so I said he just loves his faith and he wants you to share it with him

and he is concerned about the eternity of those who don't believe like we do.

But he doesn't really have the best of tact and just please forgive him for that.

And we went about our business helping with the furniture that woman.

About five years later I found out she became a born again believer in Christ.

And I asked her what happened.

And she said you know that guy that was helping with the furniture.

That question kept me awake at night it haunted me and finally the Lord brought me to my knees

and saved me.

I mean that's just something somewhat like we were just talking about there

you go.

One quick thing though I think a good time to realize you're casting your pearls before swine is

if your relentless evangelism of this person or group of people is

doing something that is in some way

detrimental to others.

For instance if your time is being robbed because of your being consumed with evangelizing with these

people who are constantly rejecting you and you are not taking care of your duties

in other areas of life whether it be your own family's needs the needs of your own church or even

the evangelism of others.

It's time to move on wouldn't you think.

And so that would be at least one good reason where I have even

blocked people on Facebook for the same reason who are relentless in attacking what I am saying.

And I'm like you're taking too much of my time.

I'm sorry goodbye.

And I don't have to worry that if because I have cut them off that they are going to go to

a Christless eternity if they die.

Because if they are of the elect God will bring someone else to them eventually.

That's right it's a matter of we have limited time we have limited

resources we want to use them.

Hammer on one particular door that has been slammed in your face.

It's a matter of wisdom.

And Seth in Randleman North Carolina.

You have also won Why Should I Believe Christianity by our guest James N. Anderson.

Compliments of our friends at Christian Focus Publications.

And compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will be shipping that out to you free of charge.

That's CV for Cumberland Valley BBS.

For BibleBookService .com.

That's what will be on the shipping label when it arrives at your home CVBBS .com.

So keep your eye open for that package.

And we have all the way in Slovenia.

We have a friend a listener in Slovenia.

Joe and I am enlarging the email that Joe has sent because the font is

too small.

And let's see here it is.

Dear brother Chris.

Thank you for having Dr. Anderson on your show as I'm confident you both know.

It is often said that truth is the first casualty of any conflict.

That certainly seems to often be the case in my experience.

I've heard several well known apologists say that it is very common for unbelievers to say that even

if Christianity were true they still wouldn't believe it.

I've also seen this in my evangelism efforts.

Most people are so biased against Christianity specifically or all exclusive

religious systems generally that they don't even care to engage in an honest consideration of our truth claims

understanding that ultimately it is only the Holy Spirit who overcomes resistance to truth.

What are specific things we can do in the way we present the truth claims of Christianity

so as to keep people from dismissing the whole notion of objective truth.

Thank you for your ministry and service to the body of Christ.

That's Joe in Slovenia if you could.

Wow that's a great question.

I'm not sure if I could do justice to it in the time that we have but there is

a real problem in our day that the idea of

objective truth becoming part of the way we breathe now

and not really there's a sense

in which that's quite a superficial thing to say

in that people may say you know I'm not even interested but

of course there are areas of their lives where truth matters very much to them.

For example if they were accused and the

question was

no one's going to say well you know the juror he

had his own truth.

No that's where we need to

challenge or maybe just in different

implications and I think this is part of a process that we need to

engage in that even before we present Christianity as

a positive,

Schaeffer

talked of the unbelievers

meaning or

how far

are they

willing to

accept with the

nihilism from an atheistic world post -modernist

relativist, well are they willing to live with the denial of

objective matters or

even whether the bank and you agree about the balance in your bank account,

is that an objective truth or not?

People do care in matters of everyday life and what we need to develop is

some skill in showing them that their own existing commitments are problematic.

You know you can invite someone to say hey jump on my boat but unless they know that they're

willing to jump you need to show them that

they're going to the bottom of the sea and that will give

them a reason to pay more attention.

Excellent.

And you have also won a free copy of this book Why Should I Believe Christianity by

our guest James N. Anderson and thank you Joe from Slovenia for providing an American address

where Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can send that book at a much less expensive

shipping rate.

Your daughter should keep her eye open for a package from CVBBS .com that's CV for Cumberland Valley,

BBS for Bible Book Service .com and that should be there within a week or so.

Thank you very much Joe in Slovenia.

Keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in Slovenia and beyond.

In fact something that Joe said about people who say that I don't even care if it's true I don't want to hear about it.

I can even remember hearing on several occasions from Armenian Christians

that if the God of Calvinism is the real God I want nothing to do with Him and I will

never worship Him.

I remember getting chills up my spine hearing that from somebody who professed to be Christian.

We have our final question for you, final question that we have time for anyway.

Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire he says a lot is said in evangelical circles about the

inerrancy and truthfulness of scripture but it seems that an area of weakness that we have when

it comes to sharing the gospel or defending the faith is a lack of confidence in the scriptures.

We may believe the scriptures are without error but we often shrink back from their truth claims in

regards to others.

What role does confidence in scripture play in evangelism and apologetics?

What are common pitfalls in this regard and how can we be strengthened in our

convictions in the authority of God's word?

Yeah well there's a lot packed into that question.

Again I'm going to have to be a little selective in the way that I approach it.

Well the first thing is that before you even engage

you have to

in apologetics and evangelism

if

held

by Orthodox

then

then what the Bible now you can get into

all kinds of details about you know exactly what inerrancy means in such and such a case but the core idea

of inerrancy is simply part and parcel of our understanding that the Bible is the word of God

and whenever I encounter people, Christians who are wrestling with that, my

advice to them is always to Christ's view

believe about the scriptures, about their authority about their infallibility and

you know we're going to get our confidence.

You want to be well grounded

in inerrancy and then you know if it

comes up I'm not going to hide

for a moment that I may get some you know immediate ridicule

for that but I need to get them to understand why I

hold that, why Christians stand that not as

just some weird

fundamentalist part and parcel

that makes sense of the world because I'm committed to Christianity

as a whole, as a package and I need that worldview to make sense of

the world and so I'm going to want to talk about that.

I guess partly what I'm saying is I am going to defend inerrancy

there's not much to be gained from defending

inerrancy in isolation so you know I'm going to defend

established

inerrancy that way.

No, I think you have to take more of a top down rather than

bottom up.

The general claim that the Bible is and then on that

basis you have a better come

up.

Well Dr. Anderson I hope you enjoyed our time together as much as I did because I certainly want you back and often

as often as your schedule will permit and as often as God will allow.

I would love to have you back on the program so I'll be contacting you shortly to invite you back on the program

and hopefully you will accept the invitation.

And our listeners who want to purchase this book if you live in the UK you can go to

christianfocus .com christianfocus .com they are located in the UK so it

will be much more reasonable to have them ship it to you but if you want to purchase it here in the

United States go to cvbbs .com cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for Bible

bookservice .com.

Thank you Dr. James Anderson.

We look forward to your return to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thank you I've really enjoyed it.

Thanks a lot.

Chris. Take care.

Alright well God bless you and coming up next folks.

Don't go away because over the next half hour believe it or not the long awaited

discussion that we are going to have with Reverend Buzz Taylor on his

book that he has been laboring on on eschatology is going to be our discussion

for the final half hour of the program and if you have any questions for the Reverend Buzz Taylor

email us at chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away we will be right back God willing after these messages with more of Iron Sharpens Iron

and the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

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Welcome back this is Chris Arnzen and for the last 25 minutes or so of our program we have as our

guest today.

I think this is the second time right.

Buzz?

Something like that yeah.

Where you've actually switched from being a co -host to a guest.

It's almost as surprising as the first.

Time.

I think the last time it was like oh no guest yet so I'm just gonna talk.

To you.

Well the Reverend Buzz Taylor is an ordained minister.

He has served as a minister in fundamentalist Baptist congregations in the Church of

God Findlay Ohio denomination and charismatic and Pentecostal denominations and in a Presbyterian

congregation and he is currently a member of a PCA congregation Presbyterian Church in

America.

And he has devoted much of his Christian life to the study of eschatology and is actually in

the process of a very long process which I think is nearing its

conclusion God willing on his investigation of biblical

eschatology.

And it's my honor and privilege to have you back as a guest on Iron Trip and Zion Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Thank you and there's not a subject I'd rather talk on but I do need to make a little

disclaimers here if anybody wants to email a question to get a free book

if I don't send you a book I have the same excuse that Bale had at Mount.

Carmel he didn't show up because he didn't exist.

So all you'll get is some several pieces of construction paper

with crude stick figures drawn on them stapled together.

Something like that.

Yeah and like you said it's.

Been a long process it was a lot more than I expected it to be and unfortunately this has been

going on for years now and it's I've had very limited time to work on it so I

made a little bit of a lull right now so I'm able to spend more time on it.

I've been spending hours every day so I'm working on it.

I'm.

Trying.

And remind me of the title of this work on eschatology.

Well as it is.

Right now you know Puritans like long titles so I was getting a little bit concerned about it.

But it's Bible prophecy like you've never heard it.

Before dot dot dot but should have.

And of course by the most humble author Reverend Posteller.

Yes yes.

Very humble claim you're making there.

Well you know the.

Reason for the title is because pretty much how I got involved in the subject myself.

I had been talking to a friend of mine this is back like 1987 -88 somewhere around there right now

and I made some reference to the rapture of the church and he said to me no

that that stuff's not true what you know the way that we believed it.

And I'm like oh no because I you know kind of like this guy's scholarship you don't respect him for his

learning and I'm like don't do this to me you know.

And I asked him then well what what do you believe.

And he wouldn't tell me but he handed me a book.

Now if anybody's read this book I read it you know decades ago and I don't remember what I read and I remember there's a lot

that I didn't agree with.

But I read a book he handed me Jesus Has Returned to Planet Earth by Ivan Grove and I read

that and I didn't didn't know a whole lot about what he was saying except for the fact that he

adequately ripped apart everything I had been taught concerning Bible prophecy

this is why.

And I had never heard it before and that's what got me was like I why is this so new and it makes so much

sense now what made sense.

Well consider the fact that I was a Baptist pastor I had spent two years preaching through

the books of Daniel and Revelation in my pastorate and I have to admit I I got it all wrong

so you know I knew what everybody else believed I know the the common teachings of evangelicalism.

I was a pre -tribulation pre -millennial dispensationalist and all that

myself you know I had a Schofield Bible the whole nine yards you know and and I

saw that taken apart biblically and I spent a few years in limbo wondering now where is this

all gonna end.

And I got my hands on just about anything I could read concerning Bible prophecy stuff from Seventh -day Adventists

everywhere I could get my hands on stuff about prophecy and I started coming to some conclusions and

I was explaining to one of my pastors then you know well this is kind of where I'm I'm ending up in prophecy right now this is

what it looks like to me.

He said Oh David Chilton.

I'm like who and he said the name and I said well I don't know who he is but okay.

And then I saw an ad for one of Chilton's books and I read it and I found out

that the direction I was going was called post -millennialism.

Now the reason I found that out was because in all my Bible training before I had never been

given a real definition of post -millennialism so I knew that I wasn't

one of those so in other words.

You were hearing definitions of post -millennialism for from opponents of that view.

Right.

And you are typically whenever you hear an opponent of a view describing something very often

you are hearing a caricature that very often doesn't even exist such as exact such as the case with Calvinism.

And you're right.

But the main thing that got me you know I'm not writing so much on the isms as I am

looking at what has become known as the modern prophecy movement.

When I came to Christ back in 74 everybody was watching

those movies in the church the prodigal planet thief in the night

distant thunder.

I was spared all of that.

Because that was actually went right from nominal Roman Catholicism to being born

again in a reformed Baptist Church.

Well the first we didn't have any of.

That stuff the first book I read as a Christian was the late great planet earth by Hal Lindsey and I joke with my mother about

this that she says she was saved by reading the late great planet earth because the gospel was presented.

I'm you know I'm happy for that but it's kind of chemical you know I keep remindering of that you know that

you had to have been elect anyway but so anyway I

was steeped in and what is common out there and I wondered well now this other view

seems to make so much sense why didn't I hear this before.

Hence like you should have heard it you know I wish I had heard it sooner but it took years

and then like I said that when I read children's book I realized oh this is post -millennialism.

Okay but like I said I'm primarily looking at the modern prophecy movement where we've

all been to those church services where they have the huge charts going across the front of the auditorium

and all these different arrows and trumpets and bowls and everything and like one guy said it

looks more like a sketch for the sewer system of New York City.

But all these things that are going to happen in our near future and everybody looks at the signs of the times and

you know they'll they'll assure us that Jesus might come before I'm finished preaching this message and you're hanging on to your seats because

Jesus is coming so soon.

And I took what I have referred to as a second look at the second coming and came to some radically different

conclusions as to what God's plan for the ages actually was and where we fit in and the fact

that there's still a lot to be done and we have responsibility as.

The body of Christ we're not going to get rescued.

Now a couple of things I want to clarify.

Number one is you use a phrase called the modern -day prophecy movement.

You are not referring to charismatics and Pentecostals.

Who.

Believe in extra biblical revelation.

No, no.

Hal Lindsey was dubbed the father of the modern prophecy movement with the writing of the late

great planet Earth.

He popularized basically Scofieldism.

And you're using the term prophecy as in.

Regard to biblical - Bible prophecy, yes.

Bible prophecy eschatology yes.

Yes.

So yeah Hal Lindsey was dubbed the father of the modern prophecy movement and of course he made the

prediction, now he won't call it a prediction but it was that

1948 saw the regathering of Israel and

the Bible says you know Jesus said this generation shall not pass away till all these things are fulfilled and a

generation is about 40 years so he says now this is the rebutting of the fig tree in Matthew 24 that's

talking about the rebirth of Israel.

So within 40 years of that time we can expect the return of Christ which of course brings us up

to from 48 it's 88 but then you have to subtract a seven -year tribulation period so the

rapture should have happened somewhere around 1981.

Now he didn't come right out and say it was going to happen but he

strongly insinuated that and everybody was expecting that to happen and other writers grabbed on to that same

idea and then you have you know 88 reasons why Christ is going to return in 1988 and

of course he made a mathematical error and then it was 89 reasons why he was gonna come in 89 you know and we I was

steeped on all this stuff and you know I taught this stuff myself during that time

and but I you know I never heard anything different so when I heard the difference oh

boy it made a lot it made a lot more sense to me and I see now that we have the responsibility

to yes preach the gospel and you know there you think about it there are many Christians who

were behind the Iron Curtain that probably wondered why Jesus didn't come when they were going through some of their worst times of

suffering.

It's amazing sometimes what God will allow his church to go through.

So you're.

You're basically right now talking about your you're giving a critique of the idea

that when tribulation becomes so overbearing and persecute persecutory on

this planet that God the in the understanding of the pre tribulation honest God

would never allow his church to go undergo it.

Yes agree and he's.

Gonna rapture the church.

He's going to rapture the church out before this great period of tribulation is unleashed on the world

to judge men for their sin.

Yes.

Now now one thing I want to also clarify is that you I know that you don't

like the word rapture because it's not actually a biblical term.

Yeah okay but you have to be careful because as you know there are hyper preterists who believe yes

that there will be no future occasion where the Saints are caught up in

the air with Christ and so when you believe that is going to happen at the.

Last let me explain.

Yeah and you just said it right there and you know first of all let me give you the underlying principle of everything

I'm trying to present in my book is the Bible is the final authority let the Bible interpret

the Bible.

And it really does.

I was amazed so many of the rebuttals I've heard if people simply read a few more verses

their questions are answered many times.

And yes that that's that's the whole point.

There is Jesus going to rapture his church.

Well what happens at the rapture.

We know that the dead in Christ are raised first.

Well now if you compare scripture with scripture and I'm not talking about just taking a verse here in a verse there but looking at

the way the Bible actually presents topics.

So I'm not talking about you know stringing a bunch of pearls in the way I want them to fit but four

times in John chapter 6 Jesus said that all those that the Father gave him he

said I will not lose one but I will raise him up on the last day.

Now you can have last days as a period of time but you can have only one singular last day and that would

be the last day of history as we know it right.

In the previous chapter John chapter 5 Jesus said there is an hour coming when all who

are in the graves will hear his voice the voice of the Son of Man and come forth.

And of course some come forth to salvation and some come forth for punishment.

But the point is there is a single hour in which all who are in the graves come forth.

And then you compare that with a very central teaching on the resurrection in 1st Corinthians 15

where Jesus comes back and it says that you know all his

enemies are subdued except for one death.

And the reason death is well let me let me first quote Psalm 110 which is the most quoted Psalm in the New

Testament the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a

footstool for your feet the last enemy to be defeated is death.

And the reason death is defeated at the second coming of Christ if you will is because that's resurrection day

the hour that Jesus was talking about.

Now if you have a rapture happening where dead in Christ are raised there can only be one day

that that can happen according to what I've just pointed out and that is the last day.

So the big thing about the rapture isn't being snatched away.

It's the fact that when Christ does return for resurrection day there will be billions of people on the

on the earth that have never died they have to be changed into their eternal glorified

bodies whether for eternal life or eternal punishment.

That is the big thing.

We shall not all sleep but we shall be changed in the moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

So you know you have to have double vision to put a resurrection a thousand

seven years before the last day or even a thousand years before the last day.

And if you look at those charts there's all these resurrections of the dead and it just doesn't fit.

So the interesting.

Thing about this is unlike the common accusation by our

dispensational and pre -tribulation on us and even pre -millennialist friends in general.

And of course please I'm not attacking you brothers and as I've said some of my greatest supporters

are dispensationalist.

In fact one in particular pastor Ron glass of waiting River Baptist Church is a dispensationalist.

The accusation is that you cannot be anything but a pre

-millennialist or even a pre -tribulation list depending upon who you're speaking to.

Unless you cannot be a you cannot take a literal

interpretation of the scriptures unless you are a pre -millennial or pre tribulation list but you are

using the literal interpretations of these passages to come to your conclusion.

Well.

Yes.

Yes of course.

And now let me explain that too because that is a valid argument because you have other passages that talk about.

Well there's a thousand years between the resurrections and so forth.

Well there are certain Bible symbolism that's already been established and I'm talking like

way.

Back to the Garden of Eden.

In some cases in other words context determines.

Right there are didactic passages and there are passages that are obviously to be taken figuratively.

Now a lot of people don't like that word figuratively.

They made me get sound like well like you know the accusation against my view is that we allegorize the

scriptures only we can't really interpret them.

Because you know we just make stories out of it.

You know we can't take anything literally because literal interpretation would lead us to as they would say like you know pre

-millennialism and pre -tribulation and all that stuff.

But no we we look at the language the way the scripture uses it.

And there is a system set up that way in scripture.

And there are certain passages like for example well what we call the didactic passages.

If Jesus is just simply talking to somebody like like Martha for example at

the tomb of Lazarus he said your brother will live your brother will rise.

Oh yes I know he's gonna rise again at the resurrection on the last day.

And Jesus never corrected her eschatology because she was right.

She was in keeping with John 5.

John 6 you know all the things that we see about the final resurrection she believed that.

And and of course Jesus went on and went beyond that that he was gonna raise Lazarus and he is the resurrection in the life.

But the point is even Martha understood there's the resurrection on the last day.

Yes we take it literally let the let the texts speak for themselves.

And if there's a text that seems to say otherwise.

Well probably if you look at the context it'll be like for example in Revelation where things are we're

told in the very first birth of verse things are signified which you know look at the word signified.

Signified it's written in signs.

I mean nobody believes.

There's this big creature down in the Mediterranean getting ready to come out.

You know in the last days.

No we understand that there's figurative language that's use even the term 1000.

Yes even the literalists use figurative line like there's no escape.

God owns the cattle's on a thousand.

Exactly right.

Well who owns the others.

You know maybe.

We start a movement about which which hills does our

Satan on.

Yeah.

And in fact.

There are a number of the literalists or self -professed literalists

who are anti -calvinist and yet they will say that it is a

figure of speech one.

Paul quoting from the Old Testament says in Romans 3.

No one seeks God.

No not even one.

That they'll say.

Oh well yeah.

People do seek God.

You know.

Look at look at Nicodemus.

He was seeking God.

Yeah.

But why was that.

Because because God was drawing him.

Mm -hmm you know.

So that they even they will say there's hyperbole here.

He's exaggerating and by the way that's not to take away and

I.

Understand a lot of reasons I would say something like that in many cases because the Bible is very very colorful.

It's a much more interesting book than just giving us didactic teaching.

You know this is the way you know the way it is one two three four.

It's done in such a way that it becomes a beautiful story.

But there's a message to that story there's there's a logic to that story.

But by the way I have to there's a comical email that I just received from my old friend dr. Larry Young in North

Carolina.

He says today is March 31st.

I'm trying to catch the last 15 minutes and it's does not seem to be dr. Anderson but

someone with someone with an American accent talking about the second coming.

Of Jesus.

Well I'm glad that you found at least I have the American accent you.

Know dr. Larry that's because dr.

Anderson was only on for the first 90 minutes of the program and we have the

Reverend Buzz Taylor who is my co -host being my guest for the last part of the program.

But thanks for thanks for.

Writing in dr. Larry.

I don't have an accent by the way just I want you to.

Know that and I will.

By the way dr. Larry I will send you an mp3 of the broadcast today so you will have dr. Anderson's

portion as well.

But here's a question for you.

Buzz from Jerry again in Charlestown New Hampshire.

Great to have you as a guest today.

Buzz what do you think is the strongest argument in favor of post -millennialism.

And conversely what do you think is the strongest argument against post -millennialism.

Thanks your amillennial brother in Christ Jerry from Charlestown New Hampshire.

Okay.

Before I answer that question let me explain the difference between post -millennialism and amillennialism.

Okay because this is why I said at the beginning it isn't so much to compare the isms as it is to get

down to the bottom of the the modern prophecy.

And there is a lot in common.

Yes yes the main difference is first of all as a post -millennialist

I believe that the thousand years that is referred to in Revelation 20 is the

time period we're in and since Christ comes on the last day after this age that is after

the thousand years.

And post -millennialist amillennialists also believe that the

time in Revelation 20 pertains to the time we're in right now.

The only difference between the two has to do with the the nature of the kingdom of

God whether it's actually going to make a difference in society whether the going to be converted or

whether it's just talking about the spiritual blessings to the believers in heaven and so forth.

So I consider the amillennialists to be cousins although I will say there are definite differences

now.

As far as the strongest argument for post -millennialism I think I just

basically gave those where Jesus said that he's going to raise all that the Father gave him on the

last day.

And we know that death is defeated on the last day because that's when Christ comes back and the dead are

raised.

That is the resurrection that we're talking about in first Corinthians 15.

That's the thing that I read about at funerals as a pastor.

You know that there is hope.

There's going to be a final resurrection that makes the blessed hope the blessed hope for all generations

not just the one that's going to see the rapture.

You.

See where since we're running out of time.

Give the verse that he asked for.

Against your own view.

Oh my goodness I've heard so many arguments against it but I'll tell you the argument that's that's hard to say

the best because I hear things like well doesn't the Bible you know.

Well like one guy asks Jesus well are there only gonna be a few who are saved.

And we stop there and supply our own answers.

And oh yeah that's right.

That's what the Bible says you know.

And following that Jesus said strive to enter the narrow gate for many I tell you will try and not be able.

But if you read further he talks about people who were eating and drinking in his

presence they there was face recognition.

There you taught.

Oh I know you you know on the judgment day.

I know you you taught on our streets.

Yeah we remember you.

He's gonna say I never knew you.

There's only one generation that could make that claim and that's first century Israel when Jesus ate and drank in the

presence and taught in their streets.

They're gonna see him on that day.

But they're going to be cast out and he says it's gonna be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But then he says and if you look at the cross -reference to it also many will come in from the

east the west the north in the south and recline the table with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

But you the sons of the kingdom will be cast out there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those who are lastly first of our first will be last.

If we read the whole paragraph we can see he's referring to the first century Israel who rejected.

And this is the story of the the New Testament the change from

Judaism as the covenant people of God to the church being the covenant people of God.

And you know it's so permeates the New Testament that the first words out of John the.

Baptist mouth is the axe is already laid at the root.

And even if you take the fact that the the narrow is the gate that

leads to eternal life and brought is the way to destruction

collectively over the centuries.

Yes there will be more people in hell.

Yes.

That does not have anything to say about a future period that

will where droves were millions were great masses of humanity will come to Christ.

And even if the number does not outnumber those in hell

they're still at that time.

A great number.

Yes.

But we actually have run out of time.

There's plenty more.

Yeah.

Well we'll have you back on when you have actually finished the book.

And you can go into the entirety of the book.

But thanks for being our guest for the last half hour.

Pastor buzz or Reverend buzz.

I should say and I want to thank everybody who took the time for writing in.

I want to thank dr. James Anderson for being our guest for the first 90 minutes.

And I hope that you all have a safe and blessed and happy and joyful weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than

you are.

A sinner.