Documenting & Refuting Kwaku the Mormon

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00:00

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it

00:07

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie? Or are you gonna bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

00:14

Delusional's okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

00:20

So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. It's hung up on me!

00:27

YES! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:37

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:44

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

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When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

01:22

God has taken his place in the divine council. In the midst of the gods, he holds judgment.

01:28

How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Give justice to the weak and the fatherless.

01:37

Maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy. Deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

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They have neither knowledge nor understanding. They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

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I said you are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you. Nevertheless, like men you shall die and fall like any prince.

01:57

Arise, O God, judge the earth, for you shall inherit all the nations. That's Psalm 82,

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Pastor Luke. Nice. There you go. I like it. It's actually a rather short psalm.

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Oh, that was the whole psalm? That's it. It's only eight verses. Wow. Psalm 82. Just eight verses.

02:16

I like it. Not very long. Not very long. It doesn't take a lot of time to actually digest and unpack and spend a lot of time misrepresenting.

02:24

Quick verse. It's a quick verse. A few friends. A few friends. A little meal. Inside joke, guys.

02:30

I don't know. Let's see what Jeff can do with it. Yeah. Let's see how long. Yeah. How long would it take you? I'd probably draw that out at a good hour.

02:36

What's up, guys? Welcome back to Apologia Radio. This is the Gospel Heard Around the World. I am Pastor Jeff Durbin. They call me the ninja.

02:42

That is Luke DeBear, Pastor Luke DeBear Pearson. What is this music? It's copyright free chilled.

02:49

That's what it is. That's Joy the Girl right there. Hello. Hey, and if you guys haven't listened to Sheologians yet, make sure y 'all get on that.

02:59

Sheologians at sheologians .com, right? That's all there is to it. Sheologians .com. Or you can get it at apologiastudios .com.

03:06

That's true. Just go under Sheologians. Her and Summer Yeager, they do

03:11

Sheologians, and it is an excellent show. Make sure you guys go check that out. Welcome back, y 'all. It's been a while since we had the whole crew together.

03:17

I know. I was just thinking exactly that. At least I'm a few episodes, for sure.

03:23

Like six or something? Yeah, yeah. If you haven't heard, we are super excited about this. Joy is carrying a wonderful little baby right now, and we're excited about that.

03:34

Lots of prayers answered for that. 25 weeks. She moves around in there now a lot.

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She likes to kick a lot. I love that it's a little girl. I love that so much. Yeah. So be in prayer for Joy.

03:47

And, hey, let's sort of get everyone plugged in. It's been crazy busy at Apologia Studios the last couple of years, but specifically the last couple of months, really busy.

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We just got back from Hawaii. We're just waiting for things to calm down. No, it doesn't. Every time we think, like, we're going to get to the groove of this, and something new the

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Lord gives to us. So, hey, thank you guys all for watching live right now across the Internet. It's an important show to do today.

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Before we get into the meat of today's show, we wanted to do some fun stuff and sort of give you a little taste of old -school

04:17

Apologia radio. Thank you guys for watching the show today. Make sure you guys share it and like everything. Cross them in them

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Internets and social media and everything else. We are going to be responding to some comments made by Kwaku, a

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Latter -day Saint, on his channel, specifically two videos. They're long videos and long rants, and we're not going to spend a lot of time really engaging in hopefully what he engaged in.

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But we do feel like it's necessary to respond to the public false witness. There's a few things that can be cleared up.

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Yeah, exactly. And I just want to say this very humbly, respectfully, but also firmly, the

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Word of God actually gives us a standard from Genesis to Revelation, same standard, and that is that you're not to receive an accusation against somebody unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses.

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And that is to say two to three independent lines of evidence. And that is a standard that God gives, again, from the

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Old Testament judicial law all the way through. You see Jesus appealing to that standard in Matthew 18. He does it also elsewhere in the

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Gospels. You see the Apostle Paul in his letter to Timothy. You see it saying receive no accusation against an elder unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses.

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That is in terms of simple justice and integrity and truth. We live in a fallen world, a sinful world.

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People make false accusations. It doesn't mean you're to receive every accusation made on the basis of two to three witnesses.

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It's just that you don't even receive it unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses. And then an investigation must be done.

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You must test those witnesses. You must see if that evidence is true. And I think it's important, in particular, the world that we live in with fallen people and people that are sinners, all of us are, that we actually hold to that standard in saying we're not going to receive an accusation made just because somebody says so, just on somebody's say -so.

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And we don't enjoy doing shows like this today in terms of refuting somebody's public false witness and a record that they've left of false witness.

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We'd rather it be about the theological issues. And that, I think, if I can say a highlight thing as we go into the

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Kwaku stuff later, I want to just sort of nudge Kwaku and those who are in his camp in that direction.

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Allow this to be theological. Allow it to be theological as it ought to be. And don't allow it to become malicious and personal as much as you're able.

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Now, of course, there's going to be moments where there's crossing, where you hear somebody say something, and you have to try to maybe at least throw out some assumptions.

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I think maybe they're doing this, or maybe they're doing that. But I think the real issues need to be tethered to Scripture.

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What does the Bible say? What are your theological presuppositions? And let's test those things. We try to pursue that as the main issue.

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There are moments where we've looked at some of what Kwaku does, and we've said, I think it lacks integrity. I don't think that he's telling the truth here.

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We try to say, look, my only assumption is he's doing this because of this reason or that reason.

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But there were some pretty audacious claims made by Kwaku. And I want to just say this.

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Kwaku has asserted that he's not going to do any more videos responding. I think that's highly convenient that you put that down and say,

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I'm not going to respond anymore. Because Kwaku knows that we were going to do this show, and we were going to refute the false witness.

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He knows it because we posted under his video that we're surprised. We are very surprised that he would bear false witness against people and leave a public record of it, knowing that we have the record of our interaction.

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He has it. We have it. Now, what I meant by that was the e -mails. We have the e -mail interaction.

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So we were surprised, and taking it back a bit, that Kwaku would leave a public record of false witness.

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And I just want to say, as respectfully as I can, I think it's highly convenient that he said, I will not respond any further.

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And as far as I'm concerned, that's fine, because what we're going to say is not based upon my own feelings, my emotions.

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There's no anger or animosity towards Kwaku. It's based upon the facts, based upon the evidence, based upon what actually

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Kwaku has himself. It's what he sent to us. And so that needs to be understood. And I just want to encourage everybody, all of us, whether you're

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Mormon or Christian, Latter -day Saint or Christian, I just want you to just firm up your commitments to that fundamental truth.

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I think we can all agree on, and that's that we don't receive accusations against others unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses or two to three independent lines of witness and testimony.

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And so just consider that. We have to be careful, especially in this day and age of social media, and the ease through which anybody can just drop a claim, drop a bomb on somebody on social media.

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I think we have to all be willing to firm up our commitments to rigorous thought and integrity.

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I think it's very, very important that we do that. And I just want to say as we get into this that we at Apologia have always had a commitment to integrity in terms of what somebody else believes.

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Now, when we interact with Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or atheists, we want to interact with what they actually believe.

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So when we actually talk about what Mormons believe, we do it through original source documentation.

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We'll say Journal of Discourses says, History of the Church says, The Book of Mormon says, or Pearl of Great Price says.

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Not Walter Martin says. Not Walter Martin says. Walter Martin shown up is one of our heroes of the faith, and I am not ashamed of that whatsoever.

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But we do not believe what we believe about Mormonism and the corrupt theology of Mormonism because Walter Martin says.

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That was a claim that was made. That was a claim that was made. Yeah, Walter Martin is a solid believer who's with the

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Lord now, and he did some amazing work in evangelizing and reaching the Mormon community.

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But what we believe about Mormonism and what we claim about Mormonism can be demonstrated through original source documentation, not because Ed Decker says.

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As a matter of fact, we think that it's proper to criticize men like Ed Decker when he made films like Godmakers 2.

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Some of the outlandish things said and done, we criticize that because it shows a lack of integrity in actually representing

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Mormonism or Mormons in a proper way. There are times where people have made claims in content we've created about the

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Mormon church, and we never released that content, and we actually killed it because it was false.

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It wasn't true about what Mormons believe, and so we said, no, we're not sharing it because we want to have integrity. We believe that even if we disagree with someone's theology, we have to have integrity about what they actually believe.

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What Mormon prophets have said, what they've actually stated, and what they've written, we have to have integrity and go to original source documentation.

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Now, modern Mormons may not like some of the things that the older Mormon prophets and apostles have said.

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It doesn't change the fact that they've actually said it. Now, they may disagree today and say, for example, I don't agree with early

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Mormon prophets and apostles who taught that Jesus was the product of a sexual relationship between Heavenly Father and Mary.

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It doesn't change the fact that it, in fact, was taught by inspired leaders of the

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Mormon church. Now, I accept the fact that modern Mormons may say, I don't accept that today. I think it's inconsistent that you don't accept it, but I'll accept that you don't personally believe that, and I won't hold you to it, but I will say

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Mormon prophets and apostles taught it, and here's the original source documentation. So my reason for saying this is that going into this, we need to make this theological and not personal.

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Kweku thought that it would be a good tactic to ignore really the substance of what Dr. White and I had done in terms of refuting his misrepresentations of ancient

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Christian orthodoxy and theology. He thought it'd be better to go after personalities and those sorts of things.

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Let me just go on record here. Kweku, I'm much worse than you think I am. I am much worse than you think

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I am. God has saved a sinner, and if you knew my past and the man that I once was before God saved me, trust me, you would have a lot more to throw at me, a lot more fiery darts and arrows.

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Believe me. But it is, I want to just say the final word here, it is a tactic of Satan.

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It is a tactic of Satan. It always has been, and when the Bible describes Satan, the

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Bible calls him the accuser of the brethren, the accuser. The devil is the accuser, and so it is a common and pithy attack of the enemy, a spiritual attack, to actually go after people and make accusations against them, their character.

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They did it to Jesus. It happened to Paul. It's all throughout the scriptures. The devil is the accuser of the brethren. And so it's a common spiritually dark tactic to try to just be accusatory, accuser, accuser, accuser.

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Now, these things are easily refutable, Kweku, easily refutable. We're going to get to it later, but when you go to a random website on Google and look up my name, and you go to some website where you have to pay to get a report made, and it says something about 11 felony records or something like that, for the record,

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I've never been arrested, except one time when I was 11 years old, I was shoplifting on base in a military base, and they let me go the same day.

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But that's it. That's the only time. So felony records and those things, if you want to go into that direction,

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I mean, lots of luck, my friend, but I remember one time Walter Martin was talking about how he was going to an area to teach on the

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Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses. He comes into the area, but a couple days before, the Jehovah's Witnesses discovered that Walter Martin was coming to teach on the

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Watchtower. And so what they did is they actually blanketed the entire area with pamphlets about Walter Martin is possessed by a devil, that he's filled with a demon, and they blanketed the whole area.

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He said it was the most packed event they had ever had, because, he said, people needed to come and see a 250 -pound devil in the flesh.

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Who doesn't want to see him? All things work together for good. We trust the Lord. We know the truth, and the

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Lord knows the truth. And in the end, Kwaku knows the truth, because he was a part of the interaction. And so my only real significant surprise is that you have a young man who is an intelligent man.

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He's an articulate man. He's a bright young man, that he would be willing to leave a public record of false witness that is easily refutable, and will refute it.

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And I want to say that if we've made any mistakes or errors along the way, we would always want to own those mistakes. And we think that's good practice to be in.

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If you make a misstatement, if you get a date wrong, or something like that, you need to own that. And I think it's important to do that.

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It glorifies God to do that. But when you actually spread blatant false witness, and you're unwilling to be challenged by it,

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I think that is a lack of integrity, and that shows a problem in character, more than anything else.

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Alright, so just a pointer, since you're here on Apologia Studios, just a pointer, if you would, check out

15:01

Apologia Studios. If you're here right here on YouTube, or on Facebook, we released the discussion

15:07

I had with Andy Stanley on the Unbelievable Radio Broadcast. I encourage you guys to check that out.

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I think much more could be, and should be done on the discussion. I'd love to do a public debate with Andy Stanley, but I think it was a really good discussion, and it exposed a lot of important issues.

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It's about an hour and a half long, so I encourage you to go check that out. I think there's fundamental issues dealt with in that radio broadcast.

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One is the issue of the authority of Scripture, and two is the abiding relevance of the law of God today in the life of Christians.

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And so I think it'll bless you to go listen to that. But let's have some fun before we get serious. Y 'all ready for this?

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Alright, so you guys are going to go too. Oh, I'm ready. Here, okay, she's ready. I'm ready. So my wife and others wanted me, wanted us to watch this video

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Well, and honestly, I would say it's gone viral, but that's just because a lot of people in my

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Facebook feed are from Arizona. Yeah. So many of you need to see this video because it's insane.

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And I don't know that they would see it because I don't think it's viral in the truest sense, which is that it's all over the place.

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If you go to YouTube and type in helicopter rescue, and it comes right up. Oh, okay. It's trendy now. It's going.

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Good, so maybe you've seen it. If you haven't, see it. Alright, this happened here in Arizona at Piestewa Peak.

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That used to be Squaw Peak. Oh, Squaw Peak. Why did they change it? Well, they wanted to change it.

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Piestewa, I believe that's the name of the first Native American female that died serving in the

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U .S. military. Oh. And so they did a name change. It's possible that they felt like Squaw was a little...

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Okay. Not politically correct. Yeah. That's what I was wondering. Like maybe they could come up with a better name.

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Okay, gotcha. That's not what this is about. This is in Scottsdale, or is it...

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I'm trying to remember where that's at. This is like central Phoenix. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, Scottsdale -ish.

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Okay, sorry. Alright, so it's titled Injured Hiker Flown Off Piestewa Peak.

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Helicopter Rescue. This is Phoenix Fire officials say a 74 -year -old woman was flown off of Piestewa Peak this morning after she suffered an injury.

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She was taken to a trauma center for evaluation. Now, I was told that we need to film our reaction...

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Jeff has not seen this video. ...to watching this video. Yeah, I have. I've seen it. Alright, so here we go. I hope this is enjoyable, although apparently it wasn't enjoyable for this person.

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And apparently the fact that she's 74 years old makes it all the more interesting. Alright, so here we go.

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Okay. Oh, she's nice and snug as a bug in there, isn't she? Snug as a bug. Oh, how's that starting to happen?

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What's happening? Whoa, that's intense. Oh, what is she saying right now?

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What is she... She's probably throwing up. What is she saying? She probably thinks they're crashing. I wish there was a microphone attached to her so you could hear her going, oh, oh, oh, oh.

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Oh my goodness, it's speeding up. Oh, what are they going to do to stop it? Why don't they... They can't put her down.

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Right. They can't put her down because she'll hit the rocks. Or a cactus. What's the guy above her saying to her?

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I'm sorry. Okay, there you go. Okay, it's all done. Okay, it's fine. Wait, no, no.

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Is she begging for mercy right now? Is she... She's probably like, shoot,

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I sprained my ankle, but this is going to be how I die. Oh, what's the suffering? Oh my goodness, she's speeding up.

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Oh, it's going faster. It's going faster. It's going so fast. Oh my goodness, she's going so fast right now.

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It's getting worse. He's trying to put his... Oh, she's going so fast. Whoa.

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Oh my goodness. And she's getting worse all the way down. Oh my goodness. Why didn't they put her back down?

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Oh, it's going so fast. It's going so fast. Is she...

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Oh, it's going so fast. Oh my... It's going so unbelievably fast.

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She's tasting what she had for dinner. Oh my goodness. How are they going to stop it? What are they going to do to stop it?

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What are they going to... And they keep bringing it up and down. What are they going to do? That poor lady. Oh, is she...

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Is she died, right? No. She just... Oh. Oh, they're like, just go.

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Just get her somewhere. The guy's just like, just go. Just go. She just was nauseous.

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She just had nausea. That was it. I think, yeah, she was like dizzy and nauseous. I've never seen anything like that in my life.

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And it's got to be because she's like so tightly packed in there. That's the only reason why nothing else bad happened.

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How did she not... She had to have blacked out. She maybe did. Maybe. Did you guys see First Man? No. Oh, you haven't seen

20:03

First Man? No. You should really see it. It's good. With Ryan Gosling, where he's... Was he...

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Not Buzz Aldrin. The other guy. Oh, he had a brain. My brain's in Japan still.

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The other... The other astronaut. What's his name? Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong. Thank you. You guys didn't see that?

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No. It's actually really good. Huh. Anyways, it reminds me of... There's a training thing. Like the G -Force training?

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Yeah, and he blacks out. And that's exactly what it looked like. Well, I think that's... I think the reason why she went faster is because like the cord gets...

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It's like there's a toy that's like that. Yeah. Where you like spin the... The top spins on the string.

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And it's because it like... Right. The cord gets all twisted. And then when you pull it up, it like uses it to spin you even faster.

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Fidget spinners. And so they like kept trying to like... It's just up and down. It's like a yo -yo. Up and down.

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It's a good yo -yo trick. Do you think at first it was like, um, help? Help. And then it was just like...

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Well, she probably felt like we all felt, which is that, okay, well, it just can't... It can't go faster.

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Yeah. And then a few minutes later, you're like, oh, wow, that's really fast. It's going a lot faster.

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She's really fast. She probably couldn't even speak at that point. She was just completely silent, just going...

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She had to be unconscious. Like, I don't even know how you could... I don't know. I don't know how you could...

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I have no idea. Man, that is... Well, that is one of the most intense moments, I'm sure, in her 74 years or however old she was.

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Never forget that. Wow, that is intense. Oh, my goodness. I really hope we get... I mean, she may also decide she like doesn't want anyone to know that it was her, but...

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Hey, can we get her on the show? I do hope that she comes out and like does some sort of... Like explains...

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Remember the SNL skit with Will Ferrell when he was on the thing spinning in circles? And he's like talking and he just kept like...

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That's like if you try to interview her, you try to interview her and she's just on her own, just like in circles.

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She just spins now. Yeah, she just... Everywhere she goes... She's fine, though. She walks in circles everywhere.

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She's going into some way to get a sandwich and she's just spinning in circles. Wow. I want to ask her like, but what did you see?

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But what did you see? And she's like, I actually... She actually went back in time. She's like, I saw the shooting of Abraham Lincoln.

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She actually saw Pissed to Walk. She came out and she was 45. She's 45.

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Her hair got dark again. She didn't need glasses anymore. She's fine now, actually.

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I'm actually going to do it again because I want to go back another 25 years. All right.

22:39

Okay. Well, I was going to play a clip from the old Apology Radio, but I think we're short on time.

22:45

Although I'd really love to. Maybe we'll have time after this. We'll see. Okay. Ready to go? Let's do this.

22:51

All right. So we, again, if you guys are just getting into the broadcast for today, we are going to be responding to some comments made by Kwaku.

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He's a Latter -day Saint. He was part of a show that was originally called The Three Mormons. It's changed the name now.

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He was on Apology Radio on an episode. He actually contacted us. I want to just note that.

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He contacted us via message at Apology Studios and organized us actually getting him out here to be a guest on Apology Radio.

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And so we're going to actually go through some of the email interaction because I think it's vital. He made a lot of claims in a video response recently.

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And just to back everybody up, he has made some videos on the Trinity where he misrepresents what

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Christians have taught and believed about the Trinity for millennia. And we thought it was important to respond to that.

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So Dr. White and I recently on The Dividing Line did a response to some of the comments he had made. He just,

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I mean, I can say this as respectfully as possible. He just gets it wrong. He misrepresents what

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Christians actually believe. A refutation from your perspective is one thing, but misrepresenting what the person believes and then doing your refutation on the misrepresentation is called straw man argumentation.

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And that was the main point really that Dr. White and I were making is we refuted. And yes, we did. Anybody can see it.

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Go look up James White, Dividing Line, Kwaku. You'll see we refuted clearly, clearly refuted what

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Kwaku had been alleging about the Trinity. And we want to encourage Kwaku and others like him to think in categories.

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Categories are very, very important. That's huge. Very, very important. So his response was to do two videos on really, they were just really slander fests.

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Yeah. It was just, it was slander. It was all personal. There wasn't a real attempt at the theology. Very little interaction.

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Just trying to take down character and morality. Yeah, exactly. So we're going to respond to some of those things. And what we're going to do is try to hold, to do some biblical standards of evidence and witness here as we respond to some of the audacious claims of Kwaku.

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So first thing I'll do is I'll play again. We can't do all of it. There's 36 minutes on the first video and 50 some odd minutes on the second video.

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So we're just going to do a couple of bullet points to show you really the lack of concern that Kwaku has for the truth and in having real integrity when he talks about what took place.

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I would highly encourage everybody who watches this, please, go watch, and it's titled,

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Intense Debate with a Mormon. It's two hours and 28 minutes long and 33 seconds.

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It's an old Apologia Radio episode. You guys can all catch it right here on YouTube. I would strongly urge you to go watch that entire discussion.

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I think anybody who watches the discussion can see from watching the discussion the level of dishonesty and really just the lack of integrity that Kwaku has in terms of how he describes what took place in that discussion.

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So I will leave it to you to be the witness to the actual discussion we had. So what you need to hear is some of the background and interaction that took place, and we're going to be reading through some of that for you guys.

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So I'll play first. This is from his first video called Finally Responding to Dr. James White and Jeff Durbin Part 1.

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Here is Kwaku. Honestly, we want to be apart from that. We don't want any part of that.

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We think it gets really petty and stuff. So we originally were like, no, we shouldn't do it.

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But I felt like maybe I should. I felt like it's okay if I did. I felt that we should defend ourselves, but then

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I also realized that, well, if the rest of the hosts aren't going to go, then I shouldn't go and represent the show.

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And so our show agreed. So Saints Unscripted agreed, like Kwaku.

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Saints Unscripted is the new name for the show. It was called Three Mormons. You go on the show, that's totally cool, but don't talk about the show because you need to represent yourself.

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The other hosts won't be there, and so you shouldn't speak on behalf of them. And I totally agree. I think that's totally fine.

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I agree. I start talking to them, and they're really nice guys, whoever I'm chatting with on the

27:08

Facebook Messenger about apologia and coming on the show. There were some complications with me actually getting to Arizona.

27:14

They were so kind. They paid for my airplane ticket, and they paid for my hotel, and they got me a pretty sweet hotel right near Arizona State.

27:22

It was legit. It was one of those hipster hotels that had a guitar in it, and downstairs there's a bunch of people with tattoos and mustaches drinking craft beer and throwing darts.

27:31

But I'm getting ahead of myself. But I get a message from James White, and he's like, Hey, Kwaku, thanks for agreeing to come on the show.

27:40

Do you want some books of mine to prepare you for the debate? I feel like I can just go online.

27:46

I can read articles about some of the stuff he's said. I can watch his stuff. He's all over YouTube, right?

27:52

But I felt it was weird. He was like, I can send you some of my books to prepare you to meet me. And I was like, no, I don't really.

27:58

I actually would have accepted the books, but if anyone has ever gone to BYU, you know that there's a thing called

28:05

Homeless Week. Homeless Week is the worst thing ever because it's essentially most of the apartments in the

28:11

Provo BYU area are BYU -contracted, and so they follow BYU standards, and so there's certain rules about when people have to move out and move in.

28:19

And Homeless Week just happens to be one of those things where all the apartment complexes that lease you out for a year end their leases, but they don't open their leases for the new contracts for like three weeks.

28:33

So Homeless Week is really like a homeless week. It's like up to three weeks where people don't have a home, so they either go to their parents' house wherever else in Utah or Colorado or Idaho or Arizona, or their couple of their friends that do have a place that don't have to get kicked out, you sleep on their couch.

28:49

I was sleeping on my buddy's couch for two weeks because of Homeless Week. So I didn't have anywhere for him to send the books.

28:54

That was my long way of saying that. I was like, yeah, no, I'll find it online. There's no way you can send me the books right now because it's

29:01

Homeless Week. It's kind of a weird concept, but whatever. I start watching some of his stuff. I read some of his stuff, and then I go to Arizona.

29:08

I go to Tempe, Arizona. It was a fine trip. It was great. It was wonderful getting there.

29:14

I get to the Phoenix Airport, I believe. Phoenix or Tempe Airport. I get to one of the airports, and they send a guy.

29:23

I think it's Pastor Zach to come pick me up from the airport, which is super cool because I didn't have to Uber to wherever and find them.

29:29

And he's like this really serious dude. So let me start talking. Okay, so let's just pause there for a second.

29:37

You can take Kwaku's explanation or characterization of Pastor Zach, or you can take the characterization of everybody who actually knows

29:47

Pastor Zach. That was a surprising characterization for me.

29:53

He's a super serious dude. I laughed really hard when I heard this, and I immediately messaged

30:00

Zach. I was like, you have to listen to this part right now. This is the first time I had heard him say that, and it's just funny.

30:06

Zach did my marriage counseling, and I would say he's not super serious.

30:12

Would serious be how you describe Pastor Zach? I guess maybe in that situation, I've never had him pick me up from the airport as a stranger.

30:21

I don't know. Well, you could take Kwaku's characterization, his single witness, his own witness of Pastor Zach, or you could take the witness of the hundreds of people at Apologia Church that know him, who have done counseling with him.

30:34

You can ask his children if he's a very serious person, and I'll tell you that he's one of the least serious people that I know or takes himself seriously.

30:42

I will tell you that Pastor Zach wanted us to convey this, that he actually wanted very, very much to love

30:49

Kwaku and be gracious to him and to be sweet to him. And so he actually made sure that that was a part of his connection with Kwaku, and he fundamentally denies what

30:58

Kwaku says here about him. And I'll let you hear it. Tempe and Arizona State.

31:04

I'm like, yeah, you know, Arizona State, crazy. It's a big party school. This guy holding the steering wheel keeps driving straight face, but looks at me and goes, yeah, there is a lot of fornication.

31:17

I'm just like... Did that really happen?

31:22

Pastor Zach denies it. He says the one thing that they talked about with ASU is Planned Parenthood.

31:29

Pastor Zach says that he did mention that Planned Parenthood... Did he do it in a southern accent? Yeah, there sure is a lot of fornication there.

31:37

Just so you know, Pastor Zach is not from the South, so that characterization in itself is interesting.

31:43

But Pastor Zach did say that he did mention that Planned Parenthood, he mentioned the ministry we have, and Planned Parenthood has a facility next to the female dorm, and there's a lot of abortions that take place there.

31:55

He did mention that, but he fundamentally denies Kwaku's characterization of his spirit towards Kwaku, his overall spirit of seriousness.

32:04

I'm sure there's a lot of fornication that happens. We know. That is true, but yeah.

32:11

Yeah, they do fornicate. What am I supposed to say to that? Anyway, I get to their studio. Gives me a card for 70 bucks on it, which had some food, but also low key my payment for coming to the show.

32:21

My hotel... Nope. I wouldn't have asked to be paid to be on your show, and we weren't paying you to be on our show.

32:28

We wanted to bless you, so we picked the hotel that was closest to the studio. It was a nice place, and we wanted to make sure we took care of you and gave you a nice place to stay, because we wanted to be a blessing to you, and we gave you per diem for food for all the time that you were going to be here to make sure that we fed you and cared for you.

32:44

So we took care of Kwaku's flight, we gave him a nice place to stay, and we gave him a card for expenses in terms of his food, so he wouldn't have any out -of -pocket expenses coming to do the show with us.

32:56

So that's what that looked like. It's super cool. They were super nice at first. We only talked a little bit.

33:02

Their set was very interesting. So you go in the back, and they have a little talk show set up with a desk, and then they had this empty room, and then there are posters all over the wall.

33:12

The lighting is darker, and there's posters all over the wall, and it maybe looked like they were still constructing.

33:18

I don't know. The only Christian thing I saw was this little bookcase with a couple of Bibles and apologetic books, but everything else was movie posters and stuff.

33:26

Okay. All right. So for the record, those three movies right there are all

33:32

Christian movies. Right. Especially the one that says Calvinist. In big letters.

33:38

This big. It's definitely a Christian movie. Now behind me, we have Braves. Oh, that's also a

33:44

Christian movie. Yeah. The Apostle might as well be a Christian movie because the gospel's in there a lot.

33:49

Yeah. And that one's not. Yeah. Gentleman Broncos is just a weird film that we like. Anyways.

33:57

We're their hussies. It's just like the director of Napoleon Dynamite made

34:02

Gentleman Broncos. I think the point is it's just kind of a weird thing. It's a weird thing to notice. I guess he's just talking about his overall experience.

34:12

Yeah. But I guess based off of some of the untrue stuff that he says later kind of makes it seem like it's a little bit of like a critique.

34:21

Like a critique. Yeah. When you hear it all together, it sort of goes, well, yeah, how's that come out? Several bookcases with lots of Christian books.

34:28

And in terms of like a construction site, like this is just how sets look. Like the part you see on the camera looks very nice.

34:37

And then yet the rest. You don't see what's on the cameras right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's very sort of construction -y looking.

34:46

That's just kind of how it is. Because we have limited space too. We're not trying to be like. Yeah. Not being hypercritical here, but it just seems like an odd thing to say or notice.

34:58

He paints a picture later on that's not totally honest. And so we might be a little bit just aware of stuff that he's saying that's not totally accurately characterizing.

35:12

Yeah. Like Pastor Zach. Yeah. That's just kind of a weird thing. Maybe he's changed now, but that's like what I saw.

35:17

But I talked to him just for a little bit. Go over roughly what the exchange is going to be like.

35:23

And I also reminded him that I'm only representing me. I'm not representing three Mormons. I'm only representing me.

35:30

And he agreed. And in the Facebook messages we talked about that. Like I'm only representing me. I'm not representing three

35:35

Mormons. I'm not going to bring up three Mormons. We're not going to talk about three Mormons. All right.

35:41

First thing to talk about there. First and foremost, yes. And we're going to go through the messages. You did mention that you're not representing three

35:47

Mormons. And that was very, very clear. Did you hear what Kwaku just said? I will play it again so you can hear him with his own words.

35:54

Three Mormons. I'm only representing me. And he agreed. And in the Facebook messages we talked about that.

36:00

Like I'm only representing me. I'm not representing three Mormons. I'm not going to bring up three Mormons. We're not going to talk about three

36:05

Mormons. Just me. So he's not going to bring up three Mormons. So we made it clear in what we put out about Kwaku being on the show and in the show itself that we dropped.

36:17

We made it clear that Kwaku was representing himself and not the show Three Mormons. He just said that he wasn't going to bring up three

36:23

Mormons. That that's his claim. That he said, I'm not going to bring up three Mormons. Kwaku is not going to bring up three

36:29

Mormons. So I'm going to play for you guys so you can hear with your own ears Kwaku's own words.

36:35

This is in the first few minutes of the broadcast itself. I wanted you guys to hear with your own words. He claims that he wasn't going to bring up three

36:41

Mormons. And so I want you guys just to hear Kwaku with his own words. You don't have to go far and wide to find this.

36:47

If you were to listen to the show, you would have heard it really in the first three minutes. It's very good.

36:53

So a special guest today from Salt Lake City. Honored to have him with us today. We were able to get him out.

36:59

I flew in yesterday and leaving actually turning back around this afternoon. And his name is

37:05

Kwaku. Actually, you have a number of names to tell the truth, but Kwaku is one of them.

37:10

I have a very long name, but Kwaku L. And I do the show

37:17

Three Mormons, however. So Kwaku, who mentioned

37:23

Three Mormons? You did. You mentioned it. You mentioned the

37:28

Three Mormons. And I think that it's so important for us to actually make sure that that is clear.

37:34

And I will play it again so you can hear yourself. Very good. It's very good. So a special guest today from Salt Lake City.

37:41

Honored to have him with us today. We were able to get him out. I flew in yesterday and leaving actually turning back around this afternoon.

37:49

And his name is Kwaku. Yes! Actually, you have a number of names to tell the truth. But Kwaku is one of them.

37:55

Yes, I have a very long name. But yeah, Kwaku L. And I do the show

38:03

Three Mormons, however. I can't represent three Mormons right just because the other hosts we have different views on things

38:10

So I'm here representing myself. So what did I say when you said you can't represent three Mormons?

38:15

I said, right But when you said in your video where you were slandering us and bearing false witness

38:22

You said not gonna bring up three Mormons like that was the thing but you actually Kwaku You're the one that brought it up You said that you're with three

38:30

Mormons you got three Mormons, but you're not representing them and I said to you right And the reason is because in all of our interaction and everything we put up we made that clear

38:39

I'll give you an example this video itself. It says intense debate with a Mormon You guys can all look it up for yourself intense debate with a

38:46

Mormon The description goes like this Jeff Durbin and James White dialogue with Kwaku a

38:52

Mormon The conversation ranges from can men become gods to Calvinism and predestination?

38:58

You can get more at Apologia Studios and then there's all the links nothing in there about three Mormons We didn't in the description talk about with the three

39:06

Mormons We didn't put it in in in the in the title of the video We actually kept our word, but it goes deeper than that Not only did you bring up three

39:16

Mormons and I said right and that you would not be representing their position Which is what we understood that you'd be saying

39:22

You brought it up. Not us. And again, anybody can see that in the first few minutes. And so that's

39:28

Immediately refuting his claims when you listen to his video He makes the claim that we said that we weren't going to mention three

39:34

Mormons again. You brought it up We didn't do anything in the titles or descriptions about three Mormons But you make it sound like we we threw like a fastball at you like all of a sudden it was about three

39:45

Mormons Yes, he says that you lied to him. Yeah when in reality Kwaku we kept our word.

39:50

We made it clear that you weren't representing the show You're the one that brought up the three Mormons. We didn't throw a curveball at you

39:56

It was understood that you had done the three Mormons show you mentioned it But that you're representing yourself and that was all that was understood between us

40:04

So I'm gonna actually read through our email interaction now some of this might be belabored

40:10

But I want to make sure I read it through to everybody who's watching right now This was the start of our interaction with Kwaku.

40:15

I think you all need to hear it Kwaku goes on later to make the claim and I'm gonna go ahead and say this up front now

40:22

So you can start to contextualize this now. He makes the claim a little bit later that That we had agreed that this would be a discussion or debate between Kwaku and dr.

40:31

White My answer to that is that is patently false Absolutely false. Nobody made that claim.

40:38

There's nothing that sounds like that There's nothing in our history or interaction that was even remotely close to that understanding

40:45

Kwaku So you don't say that you're gonna be in the moderator I'd never said I was in the moderator and you can see that really in the opening of this is

40:51

This discussion right here I want to say this again with as much humility and respect to Kwaku as I can possibly muster up Kwaku You are being dishonest here

41:01

You know, and I know and God knows and the evidence demonstrates that you are being dishonest here

41:08

Nothing in our interaction said anything about this being me the moderator and you and dr.

41:14

White talking to one another That was never suggested. It was never intimated. Nothing sounds even remotely like that And so I'm gonna go ahead and start reading the interaction now that you guys all heard that I want you to think through that as I'm reading through the interaction.

41:26

You're gonna get it all right now This is from Kwaku and this 815 18 at 954 a .m.

41:34

Hey there. I'm one of the hosts of three Mormons How are you starting this discussion with us?

41:43

Right. So Kwaku when you tell everybody that we threw like a fastball at you We weren't honest with you and all the rest.

41:50

First of all, we can refute that easily with the evidence You're the one that brought it up But in your start to interaction with us you're talking about you're the one of the three

41:57

Mormons and of course later you say That you're representing yourself and we honored that completely.

42:03

You're the one that brought it up in the show Hey there I'm one of the hosts of three Mormons the YouTube channel you've recently posted a few videos about if your hosts are interested in having an on -air discussion if your hosts are

42:16

Interested in having an on -air discussion about these gospel topics with me I think it would be a good way to get closure as well as balance.

42:23

Thanks So I'm gonna read it again if your who? hosts plural hosts

42:32

Kwaku are interested in having an on -air discussion about these gospel topics with me I think it would be a good way to get closure as well as balance.

42:39

So you mentioned you're with three Mormons We still honored the fact that you weren't representing them and you mentioned it on the show and you say in your interaction with us

42:48

The very first thing you say is if your hosts Plural are interested in having an on -air discussion about these gospel topics with me

42:56

I think it would be a good way to get closure as well as balance Here's we got you got an automated response because we can't get to all our message

43:02

Thanks for messaging us blah blah and then our actual response. Thank you so much Kwaku Are you interested in having dr.

43:09

White and Jeff? The host of our episode on your channel for your show or on ours

43:16

So again, I'm gonna read that one more time so that it's clear. Thank you so much Kwaku.

43:22

Are you interested in having dr White and Jeff the hosts of Our episode on your channel for your show or on ours.

43:31

Here's Kwaku's response I'm interested in coming on your show. Our producers don't unanimously agree on having you on ours

43:38

So the best option is that I would go down to Arizona and meet you So, let's just consider that in terms of the evidence itself the evidence in terms of two to three eyewitnesses

43:48

We have multiple eyewitnesses to our interaction with you. But here is the witness of your actual interaction with us

43:54

Kwaku It's on record and that's one of the things that I said to you under your video is that I am very

44:00

Surprised that you would actually give a public record of false witness Given the fact that you know, and we know what was actually said and here's the record

44:10

We have our actual interaction. It's in stone. We've got it. It's unavoidable

44:15

You can't change history Kwaku. And so again, it starts with the hosts of the show

44:22

We mentioned the hosts dr. White and Jeff Durbin. That's what was stated.

44:27

That's what the commitment was So I say back to you sounds great Kwaku. Would you be available sometime in the last week of August?

44:35

This is Jeff I was alerted to your message I am teaching in Canada all of next week. So the next week would work best

44:42

We'd be honored to put you up in a nice hotel and take care of your food while you are here again Nothing there about paying you for the episode that was for your food

44:51

So you say back to us Kwaku the last week of August should work I would need to check a few things and lodging will be very appreciated.

44:58

I'll get back to you later tonight to solidify I said sounds great Kwaku next on 8 15 18 at 7 or 7 p .m

45:05

He says okay, so I can go. I just had to have to make clear that I am NOT speaking on behalf of the entire cast

45:11

Only me so he says would Friday the 31st be an acceptable day for you

45:17

There's an automated response. Thanks for messaging us and then we respond back. Hey Kwaku. Thanks for the message

45:22

Just waiting for an answer and we'll get back pretty sure that will work Are you thinking you'll arrive the day before and be available for that Friday morning?

45:28

Or do you want to do it later in the day? Okay, we're all set for the 31st Just let us know how you would like to organize regarding the timing

45:35

We can book you a nice place to stay while you're here We would love the opportunity to bless you and take care of you while you are with us

45:42

So he says back to us. Thank you for your Christian hospitality for safety while driving

45:48

I'll be attending with one or two friends. We'll be driving to Arizona Thursday evening So I'll be able to do the show on Friday.

45:54

Excellent. Can we have your email? Yes, and he gives us his email Then he says 827 18 at 1151 a .m.

46:01

Jeff just checking in here and information about the 31st Are you still good to go? Would a reschedule work better?

46:07

And then there's the automated response. Thanks for messaging And then I say this we're good to go Kwaku. We'll figure out the hotel info

46:13

Do you need it for Thursday night or for Friday? And so That is the discussion that we had.

46:22

Let me just May just click on this real fast here. I'm gonna actually Recycle this for some reason it froze up there.

46:31

I'll get back to Kwaku here. Forgive me guys for the delay here So as you can see, there's nothing there in that discussion that says anything about me moderating a discussion

46:45

At all between Kwaku and dr. White's So, here we go Thanks for missing where am

46:52

I? Okay email. Okay. We're good to go Kwaku. We'll figure out the hotel info Do you need it for Thursday or Friday night?

46:57

He says am Figuring out that out this moment However, I just ran into a problem

47:03

Our driver may or may not be backing out and won't know until tomorrow if he can go which would put a major hole in These plans

47:08

I hate being wishy -washy and wasting anyone's time because I do think this is a meaningful dialogue Are you alright with letting me fill you in tomorrow on the whereabouts of the situation and then automated response?

47:18

Thanks for messaging. And then we say as soon as possible, please We can purchase a plane ticket for you.

47:23

So we offer to buy the ticket He says, oh that would be incredibly appreciated. And so I say which

47:28

Airport he says Salt Lake City International Airport is best By the way, you can use the name. He gives me his full name.

47:35

He says again. Thank you Is there anything I can do for you or apology and return? And so then I say back to him your presence is the gift my friend

47:43

I'll need your date of birth too and then he gives that and so I said hey Kwaku with this flight schedule

47:48

Work and I run down some flight schedules for him. He says yes, this looks great So I said excellent we can get it booked and get back with you to confirm.

47:55

It's booked. What's your email address? We'll forward it will forward you the official flight info. It gives us his email address.

48:01

I said forwarded it to you He says great. I got it. Thanks Jeff Do you want to plan the topics conversation the topic conversation right before the live show or the day before I?

48:11

Said we can chat about it tomorrow if you like Can you give me your number so we can have a way to contact you when you land? We'll take care of your transportation hotel and food.

48:19

He says sure he gives me his number He says hey there just landed in Phoenix. Sweet. I said our guy

48:25

Picking you up. We'll call you in just a sec. That was that really serious guy pastor Zack He said

48:31

I said hey Kwaku the number you gave us is going to someone to someone else. Here is pastor Zack's number He's picking you up.

48:37

Can you call him now? He says hmm bizarre, but it all worked out. I said our driver is there to pick you up He said wonderful.

48:43

Is it Zack? I said no Daniel I think that was the next that taking him back to the airport is what it was and End of message stream now.

48:51

I know I that's you know hard to sit and listen to me read through all these texts But I wanted everyone to hear it.

48:56

That's the message thread that we had with Kwaku and Respectfully what in there intimated in any way that I was going to be moderating the discussion between you and dr.

49:07

White and actually supports your false claim That I jumped into the discussion and somehow interrupted a commitment that we had there was no commitment whatsoever

49:19

That I was moderating a discussion on my own show when you asked to have a discussion.

49:26

I'll read it again If your hosts are interested in having an on -air discussion about these gospel topics with me

49:33

I think would be a good way to get closure and then I say thank you so much Kwaku Are you interested in having dr.

49:38

White and Jeff the host of our episode on your channel for your show or on ours? I'm interested in coming on your show so fully refuted absolute false witness

49:49

Kwaku Respectfully you lied you lied and left a public record of lies that there was an agreement that I'd be moderating a discussion

49:58

Between dr. White and you all anyone would have to do Kwaku is see this and that's why

50:04

I want to say this It was so shocking to me when I heard the claims you were making because I thought to myself

50:09

Kwaku does remember that we emailed that we text message We had text messages back and forth that there's a record of this

50:17

Kwaku You may have thought that you could get away with making these claims and that nobody was ever going to challenge you on it

50:25

But respectfully we want to stick to the theology, but if you're gonna bear false witness publicly, we'll refute it with the evidence

50:33

I think that it's um, I think that it's a Sad thing that you'd be willing to leave a record for your own character.

50:42

That's a lack of integrity By making the claims you have when there is the evidence that anyone can see one more thing

50:51

Regarding this when we posted I want to read it to you guys right now You can all look back at Apology of Studios history look at it for yourself

50:58

Don't merely receive the claim of Kwaku go look at the evidence itself on Apology of Studios, August 17th 2018 just go back to the history.

51:09

This is only on Facebook I said very exciting news Kwaku one of the hosts of the three

51:15

Mormons Contacted us and wants to have a discussion on Apology Radio The plan is to have him on Apology on August 31st pastor

51:21

Jeff and dr James White will spend time conversing with Kwaku about Mormonism and the biblical gospel make plans a big

51:27

Thank you to Kwaku for making a connection with us and for his desire to talk note note

51:34

Kwaku wants us to make it clear that he will be representing himself when he joins us

51:42

We honored that yeah that you were representing yourself Now again, if you have a problem with that then what's with this next comment because this is what you commented under Thank you for extending the invitation my only complaint about this post is

52:01

That this may be the most unflattering picture of me on the Internet My only

52:07

Complaint about this post is that this may be the most unflattering picture of me on the

52:14

Internet Kwaku You just have to own the fact here that you are being dishonest

52:21

You are misrepresenting what actually took place and here's the problem There is a history here and there is evidence that anybody can see with their own eyes

52:32

Now the fact that you have now said that you're no longer going to respond to what we say

52:38

Again is a little bit suspicious considering the fact that you knew that we were going to actually refute your claims

52:44

And here's the most important element of it. Okay when you've made claims about Jeff was supposed to He was to be a moderator between dr.

52:51

White and me You know, I wasn't gonna mention three Mormons when you mentioned it yourself Here's the thing

52:56

Kwaku in the end The most important element here is this is God knows the truth and you know the truth and we know the truth

53:04

And so that's the most important element here to us It's important to think about what happened to Jesus all kinds of false accusations are made against Jesus people actually lied about Jesus in court

53:14

Yet people bearing false witness and slander against Jesus and it says in Peter Peter gives you insight as to what was going on With Jesus and he says this he says he kept entrusting himself to him who judges righteously

53:25

So when false claims are made about us That's what we want to do is we want to we want to ultimately follow his example and say

53:32

I'm gonna entrust myself to him Who judges righteously and here's the thing Kwaku again, God knows, you know, and we know the truth

53:38

We know that you're lying. You know that you're lying. God knows that you're lying But in this case, there's also a trail of evidence right underneath us that shows you're lying

53:47

You bore false witness and slandered and now that you would now are committing to not even respond.

53:52

I think again, that's Suspicious and in the end if that's where you want to leave it, that's fine

53:58

We leave it to God who judges righteously into the evidence itself Amen.

54:03

All right. So then his next piece I'll play quickly try to get through this as fast as possible Here is his claim again in the same video part 1 finally responding to dr.

54:10

James White and Jeff Durbin Talking for 10 minutes and then and he starts saying that you know There's no other gods beside me and all that stuff and that's what the

54:17

Bible says. So Mormons are wrong So I give historical context I show that other ancient cultures from the time period of Isaiah use the same kind of language of no other gods beside me and They're polytheistic religions to make the case that it's a more complex than just saying this is black and white

54:33

No the gods beside me before me because first we have to define God and first way to ask why these other cultures are using

54:38

This kind of language right when I bring that up. He gets mad immediately goes. That's a very common mythology and he immediately gets mad

54:44

And yeah, anybody challenge you just go watch it Go watch intense debate with a Mormon and go watch go watch and see if dr.

54:52

White got mad Just it's just slander is all it is

54:58

Kwaku is You're you did a lot of things here and I don't think we have it pulled up here But I'll just go and respond to it

55:03

You made all kinds of claims here about someone getting mad or somebody threatening you They were just untrue and I would encourage everybody to go through it.

55:11

Watch me and my interaction with Kwaku Just watch me and see if there's any moment you can see where actually

55:17

I'm threatening Kwaku. It's just pure slander It's just false witness. It's just lies.

55:23

You have to own Kwaku Kwaku mentions here that dr. White got mad. He did not get mad

55:29

Disagreeing with what you say calling something mythology is not him getting mad Tony the debate changes then

55:35

Jeff Durbin gets involved and it becomes two versus one What is supposed to be one versus one with one person moderating it became two versus one.

55:42

So then again, we'd already nope False witness again lies. That's that's all that's all you can say about it

55:49

Kwaku as simple as as as possible It's just a lie Nothing in our interaction that's recorded there shows anything remotely like I was gonna moderate while you did a debate with dr.

56:01

White's and nothing in Our personal interaction intimated that whatsoever and you know that as well as we know that And again,

56:08

God knows the truth and the evidence refutes your claim. Dr. White did not get mad I was not supposed to moderate a discussion between you and dr.

56:16

White that was never stated anywhere There was nothing that even sounded like that and here's why we never would have made that commitment to you because that doesn't make

56:25

Any sense? It's not what we agreed to in the discussion itself. It's not what you said you wanted to happen

56:31

And again, there's a record of it But also you made a claim here in this video and I invite anybody to go listen to him make the claim

56:37

He made a claim that said that at some point I pulled out Where does it say that?

56:42

And I like nudged it over to him and I like gave him like a threatening look like don't you dare talk about it or We'll do this

56:48

Kwaku the where does it say that I have is photocopies of the actual documents themselves of Journal of Discourses history of the church

56:57

It has a vast selection of different topics from Brigham Young Joseph Smith Orson Pratt Orson Hyde Just a ton of stuff in there stuff on Joseph Smith's King Follett discourse

57:11

Brigham Young calling his sermon scripture anything like that at all And so if I pulled out where does it say that I had it with me?

57:18

I had it with me to demonstrate original source documentation. So if I pulled it out, I assure you

57:23

I wasn't threatening you with it's like don't you dare talk about something? It's just lies.

57:29

It's false witness and anybody who's a witness to my life my character my behavior knows Knows I would never do something like that to you

57:38

And so it's this is just something that's in your head It's a claim that you're making and it's slanderous.

57:44

It is what it is it's slanderous and I challenge anybody to go ahead and again watch that a whole discussion and Look look for what

57:50

Kwaku claims took place and you'll see that it in fact did not take place See if there's anything else here greed that I'm only representing me.

57:59

So we're not bringing up Saints Unscripted James White knew that Jeff Durbin knew that that was the agreement

58:07

There except you brought it up Except you brought it up in the first couple of minutes of the show.

58:14

You brought it up and said clarified I'm not representing them. That was our understanding as well is that you've done three

58:20

Mormons But you would not personally be representing the three Mormons on the show and again Kwaku You're the one that brought it up.

58:28

Anybody can watch it for themselves. See with their own eyes listen with their own ears You're the one that brought it up.

58:34

But in terms of us in the discussion referring to things that you've said It's not

58:40

Wrong for us to say in your video of your testimony You made the claim now that that can't be hands -off because this is something you've put out into the world on the

58:51

Internet as Your own testimony or if you've made a claim about the Trinity on the three moments Mormon show

58:56

We're actually interacting with what you have said in the public square in the public domain

59:01

The fact that it's on three Mormons is irrelevant to us It's the fact that you actually have made the statements publicly that are in error

59:09

And so for us it wasn't about as of the three Mormons you said for us it was about you've made the claim

59:16

Nothing was said in our discussions that we wouldn't mention things that you've said on the Internet if you've made an error

59:22

We were going to deal with that error And as a matter of fact when you contacted us you talked about having a discussion around these issues around what issues?

59:30

Around the issues surrounding the original video. Dr. White and I did on your claims

59:36

And so you wanted to have a hosts plural discussion about these issues

59:42

What issues the issues that you have brought to the forefront in your public videos? And so again

59:47

Kwaku you brought it up that you were at the three Mormons We made it abundantly clear that you were not representing their position

59:53

And so what you're doing here is just simply slanderous and it's dishonest All right, just keep going, all right,

59:59

I'm done here, I mean, that's all I Know that's right. You're gonna pull this and we're

01:00:07

Bootlegging it today a little bit Okay, so this I hope sorry so I have the

01:00:14

Second video pull up a bunch of little spots. We'll try to go quickly here You know and I'll say the first video it seemed like he he he tried to at least interact with some theology

01:00:24

You know again we get in there could be a whole discussion about category errors, which we don't have time for today

01:00:30

But we did that on dr. White show. Yeah, there's plenty of those You know, but then the second one it just seemed like he just it was all

01:00:38

I'm just gonna tear apart their character and morality And there's nothing theological in it whatsoever anyways, so here is

01:00:48

Here is I think this oh this was the one spot where he's talking about the importance of having a good moral character can't play

01:00:54

That okay. Here we go. I Just I ultimately believe that truth matters.

01:01:00

I believe that people can disagree on theology I I think that people can have totally different viewpoints politically, but I think there is a journalistic integrity into Representing a movement or a philosophy or anything like that.

01:01:15

And if your moral character is Off I think people deserve to know where they're getting their standards of morality from so if you have someone who's teaching you these standards of morality

01:01:25

And they're claiming that they're doing it from the Bible. Okay, but if they're behaving in a way that is

01:01:32

Kind of you know Inappropriate to say the least I think people should know I want you to tell your story.

01:01:38

Okay, so Answer the fool according to their folly Answer the fool according to their folly a quake who if that's your standard if that's your standard right there in terms of when someone

01:01:47

Has a lack of integrity when they talk about things then you fall by your on your own sword

01:01:53

Because you have demonstrated Repeatedly through these videos that you have a lack of moral character now

01:01:58

We don't want to go there in terms of making that the substance of our conflict with you We want it to be about the theology and there's nothing that you can demonstrate

01:02:06

What so ever in our entire history in terms of what the claims we make about Mormonism that we are not having integrity when we're representing what your church teaches and that's the issue for us

01:02:18

But you've already demonstrated as we've shown in this show thus far That you do have a lack of integrity when you're talking about interactions with us

01:02:24

You made claims that are in fact untrue easily refuted with the evidence that you hold in your hands as well quake.

01:02:30

Ooh. Yep So by the way, that was about 14 30 Minute mark for the first or second video.

01:02:36

So I'm going back now This is at the 150 mark and I will say one thing that was hard to watch

01:02:45

Is when you're critiquing someone and you're trying to even if you're trying to take down their moral character

01:02:50

You should never make assumptions about their motives and intentions and this second video is full of that Thank you.

01:02:56

If you guys are watching this we haven't done that once I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make an assumption Is what your what your motives were a quick who?

01:03:04

And there's the second videos full of that and I would definitely encourage you not to do that in the future because it doesn't help Your cause anyways, this year's at 150 in the second video a quick who well everything else

01:03:14

He was just saying was a lie. He's just a liar. Okay, I suspect that every interaction I had with them when

01:03:20

I met James White and Jeff Durbin at apologia I Suspect that everything was recorded right when

01:03:25

I got the airplane and met them in the studio when I met Jeff Durbin for the first Time I suspect that was recorded and my entire time

01:03:32

With them in the interview beforehand when James White and I spoke about LGBT people into the entire interview and afterwards

01:03:39

I suspect all of that was recorded as well so what I think they're gonna do is they're gonna go on the dividing line or Apologia and they're gonna play parts of the audio as if they have it and they're going to comment on that But I challenge them to upload all of it.

01:03:53

I challenge them to upload all of it so you can hear Everything that went down so, you know for a fact, you know as your own witness that I have told the truth

01:04:03

That James White and I did talk about LGBT people that he did blame the gay kids who committed suicide

01:04:09

You will hear that there is eventually an agreement that we would not talk about Satan scripted on their show.

01:04:16

You will hear so go ahead. Well, so I wish I wish we had

01:04:21

Yeah I wish we had audio recording of the very limited very very very limited moments of conversation

01:04:28

We had before the show and after the show And I just think that that's that would be a wonderful thing if we had it

01:04:35

We don't I suspect that The reason he's bringing us to the front is because of my comment under his video that I was surprised that he would leave

01:04:43

A record of public false witness as he did when he has the the record of interaction Maybe he thought we meant we actually recorded the interaction, right?

01:04:51

What I meant by that was that we have the text messages back and forth which refute clearly your claims

01:04:57

I'm completely I read through them all we can post them for people to see themselves There is just nothing in there that supports your claims and actually refute your claims

01:05:05

I wish we had an audio recording because it would only buttress the point that no discussions were had

01:05:12

About me moderating a discussion between James White and Kwaku And again Kwaku you brought up three

01:05:19

Mormons. It was you who brought it up. Not us You brought it up and we made it abundantly clear and all of our public interaction

01:05:28

That's your you are representing yourself as a Mormon and not the three Mormons Which is what you in fact said on our show yourself you introduced that so we kept our commitments and we made sure that was clear and so Okay, yeah, so this is moving on then to 424

01:05:46

These folks are Calvinist they believe in predestination Oh, and by the way, the article I wrote about predestination, which will be in the link below They never disproved it or refuted it.

01:05:55

And in fact, yes, we did. No we did Anybody can go watch the video for yourself

01:06:00

We did refute it clearly refuted it and I would encourage anybody who hears him make that claim

01:06:06

Go watch the video go watch the video where we talked about his article and yes We did in fact refute all of your claims and you did display in that article ignorance about the reform position if I'll be honest if I was in your shoes

01:06:23

Kwaku, I mean this sincerely I would take the article down because it leaves in fact another public witness of Your lack of journalistic integrity of representing what other people actually believe

01:06:36

So I personally if I was in your shoes had made the kind of errors about Mormon theology that you made about reform theology

01:06:42

I would take it down If I showed that kind of ignorance about what someone believes I would take it down And I that's just my own perspective on it, but you were in fact refuted.

01:06:52

Yeah I'll keep right here in which they refute my article The top comment is of someone saying you didn't actually refute this you just talked around in circles

01:07:00

These people believe that God predestines everything to happen that nothing happens outside of his power

01:07:06

They would say nothing happens outside of his sovereignty or something along those lines then nothing happens outside of his power

01:07:11

Everything happens because he caused it. He's the cause of all things. Pause there. They don't what do we believe about the sovereignty of God?

01:07:19

Yeah, we believe what the Bible says and there are things that you can't in your theology hold together Kwaku For example before the mountains are born or you brought forth the whole world from everlasting to everlasting

01:07:31

You are God Psalm 90 verse 2 Kwaku. You don't believe that Mormonism denies that so we believe that about God in terms of Who God is but it goes on it says in the

01:07:42

Bible and you can go look at all these references They we can go on for days with this

01:07:47

In terms of God knowing all things great is our Lord and mighty in power his understanding has no limit

01:07:53

Psalm 147 5 that's not the Mormon God. I make known the ending the end from the beginning

01:07:59

Isaiah 46 10 I make known the end from the beginning Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight

01:08:06

Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give an account Hebrews 4 13 that God knows absolutely everything

01:08:15

And then you can go into God owning all things The earth is the Lord's and everything in it the world and all who live in it for he founded on the seas and established

01:08:23

It in on the water Psalm 24 1 through 2 God rules over everything

01:08:29

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood. The Lord is enthroned as king forever Psalm 29 10

01:08:36

Yours Lord is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor for everything in heaven and earth is yours

01:08:43

Yours Lord is the kingdom. You are exalted as head over all

01:08:48

Wealth and honor come from you You are the ruler of all things and your hands are strength and power to exalt and to give strength to all first Chronicles 29 11 through 12 and here are some verses in light of all those truths of God being the ruler of all the

01:09:03

Everlasting God knowing all things controlling all things. Here it is. I know that you can do all things

01:09:09

No purpose of yours can be thwarted job job 42 to the

01:09:14

Lord does whatever he pleases in the heavens and on the earth in the seas and in all their

01:09:20

Deeps where in heaven and on earth in the seas and all the deeps. He does whatever he pleases

01:09:26

Psalm 135 6 The Lord chooses the Lord does whatever pleases him in the heavens and on earth and the seas and all the dirt depths

01:09:34

The Lord works out everything to its proper end Even the wicked for the day for a day of disaster

01:09:41

Proverbs 16 for the Lord works out everything to its proper end even the wicked for a day of disaster

01:09:50

That's the sovereign God of the Bible That's not quake whose God the sovereign God of the

01:09:55

Bible is the one who declares the end from the beginning and he works everything Towards his proper end even the wicked for a day of disaster

01:10:03

God in the Bible is absolutely sovereign He predestines all things all things work together for good

01:10:10

For those who love God those who are the called according to his purpose. That's what the

01:10:15

Bible says about God So yes, we believe in that God Kwaku for sure. So for for sake of time, but he goes on here to say

01:10:23

In that response show that we did Someone had sent us an article post the show with dr.

01:10:30

White He actually wrote in March. We missed the date. We were under the impression that he had just written it

01:10:36

And we're gonna own that we we missed the date on that. And so we accused him of not Not listening to himself

01:10:44

We had thought that you had done the interview and then he had come out with an additional article.

01:10:50

Yeah So we missed that it was a small chunk on the show we miss it one up to that we apologize

01:10:58

Kwaku we missed that that being said we we still spent the whole show refuting what you said

01:11:04

That didn't change what you said and and and you still to this day still say those same things So you still are repeating the things that you've been corrected on?

01:11:11

Despite the the dating of that article, but we want to own up. We're wrong Characterized when that article came out.

01:11:18

Yeah, it wasn't written after his show with us. It was written before I think maybe Zack had said on the show that it was written.

01:11:24

He thought that it was written Maybe we all that I don't even know But the point is is that if we make a mistake like that on a date of an article, we'll own it

01:11:32

We were wrong and there was an error made there and we happily humbly own that However, it doesn't change the substance of anything

01:11:41

Kwaku because your article was fully refuted and as pastor Luke has said you continue today to this day to misrepresent

01:11:49

Christian theology and what reformed folks believe Yeah There's a long history here

01:11:54

Kwaku that you have not studied and it's clear and all that you say and so again the dating issue

01:12:00

We say we got that wrong. We'll own that for sure We made an error and we would want to correct that but it doesn't change the substance of the problem

01:12:07

And so I think this will be the last clip we have time to get to there's there's so much more We can't even begin to touch everything.

01:12:13

But this is the one that we was just laughable that Yeah, that just really shows

01:12:20

You know Kwaku your lack of integrity and and and so I'll just play this is at 518

01:12:27

So we're gonna examine Jeff Durbin for a second and then we're gonna examine James White So when you think about if you're really gonna trust these people look into their moral character

01:12:35

Look into the kind of people that are this is what Jeff Durbin has said about women who get abortions

01:12:41

You see absolutely no difference between a mother Killing a teenage son and another getting an abortion.

01:12:48

No, no difference I think that anybody that severs the heads and arms and legs off of a baby girl

01:12:55

Should receive the death penalty the death penalty now, let's not be mistaken. I am pro -life.

01:13:01

I consider myself to be pro -life I don't believe that a second Kwaku. The reason why I make that claim is because I believe the

01:13:07

Bible, right? Let that hang for a second, right? Because I believe God's Word and God's Word says you shall not murder and then

01:13:15

God actually tells people from Genesis through Revelation that the penalty for Unjustified killing of other human beings is the death penalty

01:13:25

That is a standard that exists before what God says to Moses It exists all the way back in the time of Noah.

01:13:32

It exists when what he told Moses Moses Unjustified killing of human beings is deserve the death penalty with two or three witnesses

01:13:38

And then you see that actually Happening as well in the book in the book of Acts where the Apostle Paul is on trial in the book of Acts and when he's

01:13:46

Accused he says this if I have done anything worthy of death acts 25 if I have done anything worthy of death

01:13:53

I do not object to dying. Here's the Apostle Paul post cross post resurrection post ascension saying while Accusations are being made in court

01:14:03

Very Jewish accusations if I've done anything worthy of death, then I don't object to dying That's the

01:14:08

Apostle Paul's perspective that there are things that are worthy of death the death penalty and one of those things throughout the scriptures is the unjustified killing of a human being is worthy of the death penalty

01:14:22

I believe it could be demonstrated from scripture and from science that what's in the womb from the moment of conception is a unique human

01:14:29

Being and I do believe that a mother or father who actually kills a human being their own child are committing murder

01:14:35

And if you ask the question, well, what ought to be the penalty for murder? I want to say we ought to not look at ourselves to say autonomously.

01:14:43

What do we think should happen? I want to say if you look to the Word of God God has defined in his law what ought to take place for Unjustified taking of human life and it is it is in fact the death penalty and I'm not ashamed of that Kwaku Because it's not my words.

01:14:57

It's God's Word. Yeah, so you accuse you of being immoral like I would ask Kwaku What is your standard of morality?

01:15:04

Right, but we shall play some more that yeah going Portion should be easily accessible except for the cases of rape

01:15:11

Incest or the risk of a mother's life stop this. Okay. So what Kwaku is spilling out here now is the common cultural argumentation against The the banning or abolishing of abortion and I want you to just hopefully get educated here

01:15:26

Kwaku and I mean this respectfully to you less than 2 % of abortions that take place in the United States take place because of Rape incest or life of the mother and to to actually address your arguments

01:15:37

Kwaku They're very poor arguments and I'm surprised to hear a Mormon making them to be quite honest with you considering what

01:15:43

Mormons believe about children And spirit children and all those all those things. I think this is inconsistent with your own theological presuppositions

01:15:50

Let's deal with the argumentation you brought it up. So let's do it Rape, so you believe that it's appropriate to actually punish the child of a criminal

01:16:00

So a criminal does something evil and wicked and you believe that it's appropriate to kill the child for the crime of the father

01:16:07

I disagree. The next thing is that you think that's incest and is a situation where we should kill the child

01:16:15

I'm gonna just tell you right now that I grew up with friends who were the product of incest and I don't think that we

01:16:20

Should kill them. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that they would tell you themselves I don't think my mother should have killed me

01:16:26

So I don't believe that we should kill children whose parents have done evil things or made mistakes

01:16:32

And I think that as I saw one Beautiful black man saying recently. I am NOT the residue of a rapist.

01:16:39

Hmm. I am my mother's son That's good And I think that when you look at the the common cultural bad arguments for abortion that Kwaku you've adopted

01:16:49

I think that they are poor. They are illogical. They are insane We should not kill children because they have

01:16:56

Down syndrome, right? Oh, this child's gonna have health problems. So murder them I think that that is an inconsistent position.

01:17:03

And again, I'm surprised. I'm actually hearing Someone who's a Latter -day Saint making that claim and finally

01:17:08

I'll say life of the mother many doctors will demonstrate today scientifically and through medicine that the cases in which we have the life of the mother truly at risk because of a child are so slim and almost

01:17:20

Non -existent it is a very poor argument and in any case if you did have a case of a mother whose life was

01:17:28

Truly in danger because of the presence of the child generally speaking and this happened with my wife and my twins

01:17:35

The children die in the womb before there's even something you have to consider

01:17:41

In terms of the life of the mother and even when there is an issue where the life of the mother is truly in danger

01:17:46

What you're talking about there is a rescue operation Not an abortion. You're talking about a mother and a child hanging off a cliff

01:17:55

In a car and you've got a moment to save one of them That's not the decision to simply say we should kill it.

01:18:03

We should be able to murder our children That's a moral dilemma of a dilemma of saying it's a rescue operation.

01:18:08

This isn't about killing a child. It's about rescuing a human Right, that's the issue

01:18:14

And what you need to know is quite cool your arguments are very old very poor and long been refuted

01:18:20

Less than 2 % are Because of rape ancestor life of the mother your arguments are just poor and the reason they're poor is

01:18:28

Because you're not grounded in the Word of the Living God. You're not getting your position from Scripture You've gotten your arguments from culture.

01:18:36

Yeah, and I reject that. Yep. Okay continuing The position that the majority of Christians in America hold on this is not and this is not a super liberal position

01:18:45

In fact, this is a rather conservative position that I have most Christians have this position

01:18:51

One of the reasons I have this position is because I'm from Houston, Texas. That's a fallacy Most Christians believe this therefore it's true

01:18:59

Therefore you ought to buy it. Yeah, there are a lot of Christians that that honest They don't even know what the crucifixion was for right?

01:19:07

They don't even understand I I grew up in church and I didn't know that I was sinful

01:19:13

I thought I was good and I grew up in church. I went More days of my life probably than I didn't go right and I didn't know that right

01:19:22

So does that mean that I am a good person, right? It's not it's not a Might equals right situation right here.

01:19:30

Yeah, exactly the fallacy here and this is any logic textbook would teach you this This is a fallacious form of argumentation saying most

01:19:37

Christians believe this Well, if you're trying to argue that this is an appropriate or right or just position then you shouldn't base it on what most people

01:19:46

Believe you should be going to the core of the argumentation as to why it makes sense and so I want to say that it's important for us to talk about what does the

01:19:53

Bible say because you're condemning me as a Christian minister a minister of the gospel For believing that mothers and fathers who murdered their children ought to be punished with the death penalty now

01:20:03

I'm not saying retroactively go back in time I'm saying justice in society would demand would demand that actually we uphold justice for the pre -born children

01:20:12

Justice is something that God is concerned with which by the way in Psalm 82 is what

01:20:18

God is dealing with there He's dealing with human judges human judges who will not uphold justice and he says you will die like men you unjust judges

01:20:27

Quake who thinks that that's talking about a council of gods How are how is a council of exalted perfected beings being told they're going to be killed by God?

01:20:35

It just goes to show that Quake who I don't even know if you've actually studied or unpacked that passage in Psalm 82

01:20:42

This is clearly God Confronting the unjust judges of Israel who are supposed to act in God's place and uphold justice

01:20:48

How does that relate to this issue justice matters to God? It matters to God and he condemns the unjust judges of Israel for not upholding justice not upholding justice

01:20:58

By the way, there's no table there in Psalm 82 no table whatsoever And it's God talking to unjust judges

01:21:04

Quake who very simply understood only eight verses next Okay, so to finish this and it's just more about me though.

01:21:10

Well, I Bumped it. So I apologize. I lost the spot, but we can just talk about it because okay

01:21:15

Can I just throw it out there just okay I guess at a certain point here Quake who basically pulls up a

01:21:22

Site, it's like right after this. Yes I put up a site on Google and says in terms of trying to attack my moral character says something about 11 felony

01:21:29

Records and something like that Something to the effect of 11 felonies and public records

01:21:36

Just so you know, I have never been arrested except When I was 11 again,

01:21:42

I was arrested For a couple of hours because when I was 11 I shoplifted a pocketknife from the base

01:21:48

BX in Japan and then I got home and I took a beating for it And so I have

01:21:54

I've never been in cuffs never been in jail although I foresee that on my horizon with where we're going in our culture and our ministry in the area of abortion mill and all the rest

01:22:03

And so I just want to say also it's a very poor form of argumentation because again Quake who I'm much worse than you think

01:22:10

And if you want to know my history as to what God has saved me from drug addiction and all the rest We can talk about that and I have public

01:22:17

I have public videos about that. Let me just say this um, Jesus is a much better better Savior than I am a sinner and God has saved me a sinner and I'm a wretch.

01:22:27

I'm awful I'm much worse than you think and praise God for the cross and what God has done in Christ But your attempt here to go to a random website to talk about public records and felonies.

01:22:37

I've never been arrested. It's not true It's not true in many many cases those websites put that stuff

01:22:45

They they're very vague and they suggest that maybe there's something and it's to pique your curiosity

01:22:51

Just purchase so do you purchase a record will tell because you went to that same I went to the site itself and I looked

01:22:56

And I was like, oh it does say like he may have and so I clicked on it It ran this thing for like five whole minutes and then it said you can purchase one of these deals

01:23:04

And then when it showed it it said he has won something and it could possibly be a ticket. Yeah, and to that I say

01:23:11

Yeah, I have had a ticket. Yeah, I've gotten out of more tickets Then then yeah So, oh actually hang on a second when

01:23:19

I say I wasn't arrested been in jail one time I was taken because of a ticket yeah straight to court right and they let me go right and so if that's what you mean

01:23:27

I just it just dawned on me. Maybe that's a ticket It's talking about right because it said you might have a ticket. I was certainly doesn't yes add up to one felony much

01:23:36

Less 11 felony. Yeah, and it was it was I was gonna if you're gonna try to expose someone

01:23:42

Yeah, at least do a good job. Yeah, I just just don't me I really yeah, it's just it's um, if you're gonna be an investigative journalist and you're gonna cancel people and expose people

01:23:54

Get real information. Yeah. Yeah, he accuses us of being like like Unethical and our journalistic abilities and like yeah, you know and it's like if you decide he pulls up again

01:24:04

I apologize I bumped it but like You know, it's good you as the president of a company that you started like 15 years ago

01:24:09

That doesn't even exist anymore, you know, and they said you don't even live in me, you know And it's just like it's like you can't you can't

01:24:18

It's just nonsense. Well, yeah. Yeah, so first of all, it's bad Investigation it's not even an attempt to find there there are

01:24:27

I guess you could categorize it as not a total lie but it's

01:24:32

Lazy truth -telling right if you want to go there and then also as you said

01:24:40

There there are many situations I'm sure that if if you had a glimpse into the lives of many of Many people of pretty much anyone that you know there would be further explanation

01:24:54

And certainly there's the grace of God. Yeah Yeah that that you know some some people some people that have 11 felonies

01:25:04

They were once that person. Yeah, and they're not that person anymore and I have but I'm not I don't even need to defend

01:25:10

Jeff's 11 felonies because they don't exist. Yeah, and a very simple Click like the most the least amount of effort you could possibly put into this investigation

01:25:22

Could have showed you that You don't have 11 felonies. Yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's the point is that it's the the tiniest amount of Effort went into yeah, yeah, like I said, sorry, forgive me.

01:25:36

It just dawned on me. I did get taken to court Yeah for speeding and then they dropped everything

01:25:42

But I just had to I just had to pay like a minimal fine for going too fast, right? Which I was going too fast.

01:25:48

Yeah. Yeah. So the point is I was 18 by the way when that happened Yeah, yeah, so the point is in 52 minutes in an attempt of trying to discredit

01:25:59

You your integrity and our integrity our morality you have only shown

01:26:05

Kwaku your inability to be have integrity

01:26:12

And to continue to promulgate lies that you know are not true that we have

01:26:19

Evidence of we can easily produce So that's the gist of this whole conversation.

01:26:25

That's right And so and again, we didn't even touch we just barely touched the camera

01:26:31

They scratched it But we thought it would be beneficial to to the audience is for you just to see a couple of points just to touch those

01:26:38

Points to show you that Kwaku just doesn't have integrity in these areas when he's talking about these things He makes it very personal and even when he makes it personal

01:26:46

He doesn't tell the truth. And so what we want to say is Kwaku raise your standards Raise your standards allow it to be about the theology what that's where the discussion rests for us

01:26:55

That's where we've wanted it to rest. Let's make it a Question between Mormon theology and biblical theology.

01:27:01

Let's let it rest there. I I am convinced that After our episode we did where we demonstrated that you misrepresent historic

01:27:11

Christian theology That you ought to have responded to that substance of what we said there

01:27:18

Rather than make this as personal as you did and to engage in the slander and false witness that you did

01:27:24

I'd encourage you again to raise your standards and to do it as quickly as possible because this stuff, you know

01:27:30

It doesn't go away Kwaku. It stays on the internet and unless you take it down. It's gonna be up there People other people are gonna download it.

01:27:35

They're gonna share it There's a record of your false witness and I think that you're responsible for that ultimately not just to me before God And so again,

01:27:43

I would encourage you to raise your standard So thank you guys for watching Apology Radio and hang in with a very long episode today.