July 18, 2018 Show with Camille Cates on “First Love: Embracing a Love that Lasts” AND “The Fight of Your Life: Living for God’s Glory”

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Now here's our host, Chris. Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City,.

Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 18th day of July 2018, and I'm so delighted to have on the program today for the very first time, Camille Cates, and she is a certified biblical counselor through ACBC, which stands for the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors.

She is a 20-year veteran of youth ministry who brings her knowledge and experience of life with teenagers to audiences and readers alike, and she's now serving as the assistant director of a ministry called Healing Hearts.

Today, during the first hour, we are going to address her book, First Love, Embracing a Love That Lasts, and during the second hour, God willing, we'll be addressing a new book, The Fight of Your Life, Living for God's Glory, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Camille.

Cates. Hi, Chris, thank you so much for having me today. Oh, it's my pleasure, Camille, and if.

Anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is ChrisArntzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Well, before we go into your own personal testimony of salvation, Camille, which is something that we do here regularly on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with first-time guests before we get to the actual subject that we intend to speak on, we have our first-time guests give a testimony of their salvation, but before we do that, please tell our listeners something about Healing Hearts.

Oh, great. Healing Hearts Ministries celebrates 30 years this year. We've been around as a biblical counseling ministry since then. The ministry originally started out in Washington State as a post-abortion trauma ministry, and over the years, the Lord has tailored and tweaked things in our ministry to really become a discipleship ministry.

So we typically do discipleship and biblical counseling on some of the more traumatic life issues. Post-abortion trauma is one of those. We counsel a lot of people who have abuse in their past, but we counsel on a lot of different issues using God's Word because God's Word is sufficient for healing, and our true source of healing is in Christ and Christ alone, and He's given us His Word to do that, and so we're passionate about getting people into God's Word to see that He really does have real answers for real life.

Amen. Well, we will be, God willing, repeating.

This later, but the website for Healing Hearts is healinghearts .org. You can't get easier than that to remember. Healinghearts .org. Now, if you could, as we do with our first-time guests, as I just mentioned, tell us something about the religious background of your upbringing, if any, and tell us what providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord wrote about in your life that.

Drew you to Himself and then eventually saved you. Sure. Well, I grew up in the church. I am from Texas originally, and my parents were very involved in our church growing up. My parents served primarily my mom in our weekday preschool ministry at church, so I tell people a lot of times I was one of those kids who was up there every, literally every time the doors were open, sometimes even during the weekday hanging out as my mom was doing things with the preschool.

So I grew up having very much a flannelgram storybook gospel presented to me, and my first understanding of the Bible was that it was full of all of these superheroes, and it wasn't until later on where I became saved and grew in my faith to really understand that a lot of the people in the Bible, the majority of them, were real people and sin struggled.

When I was growing up, I just had a basic understanding. You know, I heard about Jesus, but it wasn't until I went to youth camp at age 12 that the gospel really hit my heart, and when I say that, my understanding of the gospel at age 12 was that I was a sinner.

Even though, you know, by most people's standards I hadn't committed any heinous sins, I understood that God was holy and I was a sinner. I had just, in that preaching at age 12 at that youth camp, I heard that God had sent His Son to die on the cross for my sins.

I remember going forward just that sometimes I falsely believe I received the Lord and received the gospel and confessed my need for Him. When I went back, I just remember having that I loved Him and that I loved that He was willing to do that for me, but I think I suffered from a lot of things that church kids do, and one of those being that I went home from that church camp high in this great salvation experience to not really know what to do.

So I kind of say I really struggled. By the time I got in into my teen years and just seeing the world and the culture around me, I never learned kind of the thing to grow in Christ, and so I just kind of had a lot of head knowledge about the Lord and about how Christians were supposed to live life.

So when I got into high school, I always tell people I was really boy-crazy. From the time I was little, I got caught kissing a boy in my preschool class. I was four. My mom was the preschool teacher, so my mom saw it coming, but here I was, and I think that's why the Lord has later used it to help me be so passionate for teenagers.

I didn't understand how to have a godly relationship. When you're coming into young adulthood, marriage is good, and having a desire foundation. Craziness led me to being sexually active and just kind of navigating some of those deep waters on my own, and I gave in to that sexual pressure and became pregnant at age 16, and so at the time, I wasn't sure what I was going to do, but my mom had found out, and she said, Camille, do you want to have an abortion?

It shocked me because I knew having sex outside of marriage was wrong. I had blown past that rule, but then I was like, but I know abortion's really wrong. In my mind, I was having these.

Kind of measurements of sin. And your mom, on top of that, was a professing believer in Christ,.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and again, I think part of my passion for discipleship is I don't know how much my parents were really discipled to really live out the Christian, and so their limited discipleship carried over, I think, into my life, and so we didn't have a good, solid theology in our family of life and the issues of life and life in the womb.

So I just, and I'm sure it was young and just selfishness at the time, but I just responded to my mom, and I said, no, you know, I want to keep this baby. This is my baby, and I always kind of felt like a statistic because the young man who I had become pregnant by was long gone, didn't want anything to do with us, but my parents were really, and so I'm thankful, you know, that they believe in Christ.

My mom was really instrumental in pushing me to education. I graduated a year early from high school. I started college two days after, excuse me, two weeks after my daughter was born. Life was just kind of going along, but the time where I stepped out of church during my pregnancy, and I really have a heart for you, I felt that, and I set up God's Grace, and so one day, our music minister's wife, who was a college student, said, we want you to be at church.

But it was such a works mentality. I just kind of thought, well, okay, now I've got to sit up straight and fly right. You know, I've got a second chance to do this over again, and even though I was saved by grace, I was kind of going back to a works mentality, but the discipleship still wasn't there, and now I had a daughter and was looking for a relationship.

I wanted to have a family, and that's a good desire. It's a God-honoring desire, but I didn't know how to seek out, be working on who I was as a young mom in Christ in that time, so I just kind of floated in and out of other relationships to get into, and became sexually active again, and became pregnant again, and at that time, my theology was really rocked.

I started questioning things in my mind based on the unchanging truths and authority. You know, we had considered at that time having an abortion, but we never really got to that decision together, the young man, and I had become engaged.

We were thinking about getting married. He seemed to be really good with my daughter, and then one night while I was working one of my part-time jobs, I was going to college full-time, working two part-time jobs, at one of my workplaces, my mom came up in the middle of my shift, and she said, Millie, you've got to come to the hospital.

My daughter, and we found out through the course of the evening that my boyfriend, while he was watching her, had sexually assaulted her and shaken her. Oh boy. And so obviously, that rocked my foundation again, and you know, suffering is a hard knowledge of God, and who He is when we get into those to and fro in those waves.

You know, I started in my mind just kind of with my own worldview and my own thinking of, okay God, how could you let this happen, and not really understanding His sovereignty over situations, even sin and suffering, and that He still had a plan for the life, you know, inside of me.

Anyway, my parents had found out that I was pregnant by this young man. The young man was incarcerated, and so that relationship was over. I had lost my daughter. I was grieving. We buried her, and four days later, I'm playing a Christian young woman, and a lot of people struggle with that.

You know, how can a Christian make a simple decision like that, but when you don't foundation and view of life and view of God's sovereignty, you will take your life into your own hands and make your own choices and decisions.

And so at the time, I thought, you know, God was somehow going to make it all okay, and my life just, you know, getting along through life by what, you know, just to encourage even parents that are listening, and maybe they have praying for them.

Keep praying for them, and keep encouraging them with the truth of God's Word when you can. And the Lord was really gracious to me and helped me bring me to the end of... I'd moved off to Dallas for a while to try and kind of just get away from my hometown and the memories and the pain and everything that had gone there that the friend had been getting in trouble with.

I just found out, you know, when you move off to a different place, especially a bigger city, there's the same kind of stuff and only more of it. One time that a godly young man that I had grown up with in church, after graduation and looking for his first church to serve in as a youth pastor, we reconnected and started hanging out.

He shared with me one night that he had feelings for me, good godly feelings, and I just thought, well, he knows about my daughter. We grew up in church together. He knows all of that has happened, but he doesn't know about my abortion, and if he knew, you know, there's no way.

And I think he said, he goes, I know about your abortion. I would say it kind of freaked me out, because here he was just confronting me with something that I didn't know anybody really knew, and I think all I said was, okay, I got to go, and I left.

And I just remember the Lord impressing upon my heart on the way home a renewed truth of the gospel. You know, what was reverberating in my heart was, you know, this young man who's a into ministry, you know, he knows about your past.

He loves you, and he wants to be with you anyway. Well, God is holy, and he's just, and he's perfect, and he's righteous, and he knows that we're sinners. He knows each and every sin, but he loves us, and he sent his son because he wants to be with us anyway, and that was a real turning point in my spirit.

This young man who eventually became my husband will have been married 23 years this August, and he really used my husband to help disciple me, what I felt like for the first time in my life. So we got married, and we dove into youth ministry, and that's pretty much my testimony, the spiritual walk that God brought me through, and at the point, you know, where he brought me to ministry and serving him in that capacity.

Now, if you could, just because of the fact that.

There are no doubt in the providence of God going to be some young ladies who are going to be confronted with the same question who will hear this program. I am just very convinced of it. Obviously, I'm not a prophet, but I'm pretty certain with the size of my listening audience and knowing of the sovereignty of God, I believe that he's going to place this within the ears of women and young ladies and girls who are confronted with the question, do you want to have an abortion?

I would like you, if you don't mind, for just a little bit to let our listeners know, what were the reasons that your parents who professed to be Christians were even coming to that point of asking you that and perhaps even giving you reasons why you should do that, which is obviously to many of our listeners stunning for professing Bible-believing evangelical Christians to not only once, but on a second occasion, ask you if you'd like to do that.

What would be the reasons why someone, especially coming from a professedly Christian background, what would be the reasons that they.

Would be asking you that question? I think for anybody, whether it's the young woman or the young couple or family members or loved ones around them, I think it's a couple of things typically, and one of them is fear, and fear of what life is going to look like, fear of hardship, you know, that it's not going to be easy, it would seem easier to end the pregnancy.

There's consequences and they're even more devastating because God created life, and if He is the one who created the life and the womb, He's the one who is going to help us continue to nurture and raise that life if we look to Him.

So I think fear was what was driving, my parents were fearful of my future that would look like the unknown, of not being able to see their way. Now, in regard to the fact of who the father,.

The biological father of the child was, or I'm not really sure what, because if they were committed to help you raise the child and so on, a fear of what others would think of you,.

Especially perhaps in the Christian community? Yeah, I think that's another fear of your reputation and their shame that comes with sin, and so a lot of times our human response is, well, we'll just sin again to cover up and to hide that, so I think that was a temptation.

But I just think it was a lot of mixed emotions, but I would say fear is one, I think pride, I think with sin. Right, and of course the very key word is what seems best for you at the time. Right, right, and we just don't know, we don't know what our life is going to look like, and we think that, you know, whether it's pride being the root that we think that we can control, that our life is, so yeah, you know, we talk about a lot of times in the Healing Hearts Bible study, we talk about idolatry, and there's a section where in the Bible, so it's not, there's nothing new under the sun, this has been going on for a long time, even back then, the root is disregarding, it's complicated, and a lot of times when I'm counseling with people, you know, there are concerns that are godly concerns, or fear, I would have been honoring, that's what we would have, yes, if there was a young woman listening today, I would, and just out of curiosity, have your parents,.

Or had they reached a point, just as you have, where they realized the advice, or even asking the question of having an abortion, was really a horribly wicked sin, and is it something that they ever came to realize, that they were very seriously guilty of something horribly wrong?

You know, that's a good question, you know, I never know, as far as I don't know, so yeah, that's a tough bet, you know, I'm not sure, it doesn't often come up in counseling, the fact that there's, you know, God's Word says that His kindness leads us, and you know, as much as I hope to loved ones, see the Lord's kindness to bring a lot of evidence of them, do that work, so.

And this young man who molested your child, and killed it by shaking the child, how young was the.

Child? She was almost a year old, right at a year old. So is he still incarcerated? Yes, he is, I'm so thankful to the Lord for his, he had brought me to a place before this, but one thing that I love about our, that we work through anger, was one thing that I needed to work through in understanding that there is such a thing as righteous anger, that we can be angry, but making sure that we don't sin in our anger, that we should be, it's good to be angry over the things that God is angry over.

Anger and then forgiveness is another huge theme in the Bible in general. Forgiveness is a theme, and so, you know, I have forgiven that young man, and I...

Amen. Well, I'm going to say this prematurely, because I end my program with it every day, as you may know, but at the end of every program on Sharpens Iron Radio, I quote the Puritan Christopher Love, and I say that I want my audience to always remember for the rest of their lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

And I have gotten comments from around the world about how that, above anything else, has blessed many of my including pastors to be constantly reminded of that every day, that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than we are sinners.

Well, we are going to our first break right now, and if anybody would like to join us, the email address again is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and obviously if you share some kind of similar experience to Camille, I could readily understand that you would want to remain anonymous if you have something to say or ask about that.

But if it's not personal and private, as I said, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back with Camille Cates right after these messages from our sponsors.

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To pray for my dear friend, founder and director of Solid Ground Christian Books, Mike Gadosh. Mike, as many of you know from my announcements already, Mike is facing a very serious, very vital question on which life and death basically are balanced.

He has some very, very serious heart surgery that needs to be performed, and it is more serious, apparently, than the average open-heart surgery is, so much so that his doctor, who does heart surgery, is actually hoping that Mike will use a different physician in another state, who is much more of a specialist with this particular procedure and has much more experience at it.

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And please pray, obviously, that the great physician Jesus Christ raises him up out of that hospital bed and makes him a stronger man than he has ever been in quite a while physically, and even more importantly, that he is a more obedient Christian, a more faithful ambassador of Christ, a more strong and wise and healthy Christian spiritually in addition to physically.

So please pray for Mike Adosh, and he has given me permission, by the way, to do this, if you're wondering. We are now back with our guest today, Camille Cates, and we are going to be very shortly discussing her book, First Love, Embracing a Love that Lasts, a Discipleship Study for Young Women.

And she co-authored this with Sue Liljenburg, and I'm probably mispronouncing that name as I do most names. You got it right. Oh, really? Liljenburg. Okay. Can you tell us something.

About Sue Liljenburg? Yes. Sue Liljenburg is our founding director of the ministry. So back in 1988 is when the ministry became a non-profit organization, and Sue just had a real heart for, she's post-abortive, and had a real heart for post-abortive men and women to be ministered to with the gospel and through God's Word.

And there are a lot of post-abortion materials out on the market, but I would say what sets the ministry apart a little bit is we like to say that we're gospel-centered and grace-driven. Amen. So yeah, that's who Sue is.

Well, before we get to the book, we just have a couple of questions that I think I'll take right away. First of all, we have Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and he wants to know how your boyfriend slash fiancée, I'm assuming he's referring to the boyfriend that you are now married to, your husband, how did he know about the abortion, and how did he find out?

Yeah, that's interesting.

Because that was a question on my mind as well. Really? He told me, and so interestingly enough, he had served for a while as a youth interim in our church, and of course my pastor at that time knew about the abortion.

I think my parents had gone to him. I've always been interested to know what that conversation was. I don't know. I've never asked how he counseled my parents in that decision, but he basically had found out through one of the church secretaries who loved him dearly and wanted to make sure that he kind of knew what he was getting into, you know, in a relationship with me, and I think that's fair, but God knew that he needed to know, and that his response would be pivotal in me seeing that God still loved me, even in the worst of the worst of the worst anybody could ever.

You know, Paul said, I'm the chief of sinners, and he's never had an abortion or experienced the depths of art. He loved me in spite, and it was so unthankful for how... So he found out after it already happened?

Yes, yes. Well, Ted, we are only giving away these free copies of First Love that we have to either women or young ladies who are calling in... I'm not calling in. Here, I'm thinking about my old days when I had a call-in show, who are emailing in questions, but we will make the exception with people who promise to give it to a young lady, and if you are one of those men who are promising to give it to a young lady, send me your mailing address in Albuquerque.

Not in Albuquerque. That's our next questioner is in Albuquerque and Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and we will have that shipped out to you by our friends at cvbbs .com, and keep in mind that's only if you promise to give it to a young lady or a woman who will use it for another young lady in her life.

We have... This is my Albuquerque listener, and in fact, I was just talking with you about her before the program. I usually don't give full names, but I'm going to because this is a woman who's been a guest on this program many, many times.

She's one of my favorite guests. She's a brilliant woman. She has her doctorate, and she is a prolific writer and author, a former Mormon who became a Christian by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, Latane C. Scott, Dr. Latane C. Scott, and she asks, how do you overcome feelings of guilt about your abortion, and how would you counsel anyone listening who has had one in the same way?

And thank you. So one of the things that I love about our Bible study and Scripture in general is the power of Scripture, and so God's Word is very powerful, and one of the things that he uses to remove guilt and shame over sin is Christ bearing our guilt and shame, and so in our healing heart, we walk through, and so knowing that Christ has paid the penalty and actually took on guilt and shame for me means that I cannot wear it anymore.

To wear it would really be continuing to sin and saying that what Christ did on the cross was not sufficient, and that it's only, it's standing on the truth deeply. People are accountable to either believe that and put their faith and trust in Christ and His good news, or we hold them accountable to unbelief and challenge them that they're walking in unbelief if they're not placing placing what Christ did on their behalf to be rid of guilt and shame.

So that's how we, that's one way and one passage that I would use accountably to help them be rid of guilt.

Well, Latane's final question is, is there a way to go forward?

Yes.

Having an abortion, yeah.

An abortion or even a traumatic experience like losing a child traumatically, both of those. Yeah, I love it, and I know this is going to sound like I'm speaking Bibleese, but it's the truth, and it's God's Word.

Jesus says He is the truth and the life, and He's the good Southern Baptist girl, and I knew grace, and I think that's one thing I abused through the Bible study, but one thing that I didn't...

Amen. Well, Latane, you are getting a free copy of the book First Love by our guest Camille Cates, Embracing a Love that Lasts, a discipleship study for young women, and I'm sure you will be putting this to good use.

We have a listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Gordy, and Gordy says, as a father of five, you know I'll be passing this on to my teens, so we don't have to worry about it being wasted on a bookshelf somewhere.

In your opinion, what are the positives, if any, and negatives of social media on young ladies? And he has a follow-up question there.

I know, it's broadened out to say people in general.

Yeah, right.

Because you wonder how many marriages have ended because of the abuse of social media by men and women, and I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff goes on, but also how much people learn over the internet, and if I do say so, people listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Right now on the internet, there are two sides of a coin.

Right, right. So, God, can you, I think what, you know, talking about the positives and the negatives, I mean, there are a lot of negatives, and it's hard in this day and age, and it's hard not to be discouraged, because before we served over student youth evangelism, my husband and I did, and man, the means for God to use social media.

Yeah, in fact, I have regular listeners who are missionaries. We have Joe in Slovenia who writes in almost every day. He hasn't written in yet today, but he's a Southern Baptist missionary in Slovenia, and we have had, in the past, I haven't heard from him in quite a while, but on the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we had a faithful missionary in Korea who was emailing us regularly.

Actually, he called in even a couple of times when we had a call-in show, but I do know that there are people globally listening. We have listeners in 25, at least 25 foreign countries.

That's great, and those are great examples of how God can use social media and the internet and different forms of media and technology for His glory and our good. I would encourage the listeners out there, one of the things that our youth studies focus on is really the heart, because we could try and build a firewall to keep our kids away from all kinds of technology, and there's wisdom in monitoring and moderating things to them, but really helping our young people have a heart for what God has a heart for, and helping them to understand their relationship with Him so that they can discern.

The Bible even says that we need to train ourselves to discern good from evil, and we talk about that even in the Bible. Say we talk about media...

In fact, could you pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break right now. And we'll pick up right where you left off there about helping to cultivate wise discernment, biblical discernment amongst your young people when it comes to using the internet.

We're going to our longer than normal break. Our midway break is longer than normal because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, always requires of us a longer break between our two major segments so that they can air their own commercials and public service announcements and other things.

So please be patient as we take this elongated break. Use this time to write down questions for Camille Cates, and also use this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more successfully and faithfully and loyally respond to their advertisements and patronize them.

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Broadcasting. So please try to patronize our advertisers as much as you can. And we're going to be back after these messages with Camille Cates. So don't go away. Stop store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long.

Island.

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word. And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us.