1689 London Baptist Confession (part 48)

Our Father in heaven You are glorious.

You are more glorious than anything we can imagine.

And father we come before you this morning In reverence, but also in joy

and just in The knowledge that you have called us to yourself in love

through Christ Jesus father as we Look to your word

this morning.

We pray that you would Give us clarity concerning issues of Liberty and conscience

and The law.

Father we pray that our discussion this morning would be fruitful to those who are here That it would be glorifying to you

that we would ever be mindful of everything that Jesus Christ has purchased for us that we would

be careful To hold those things

With the precision that That he deserves we pray for these things in Jesus name.

Amen.

Well, we began last week.

We were talking about The conscience and about how God only

God can rule the conscience since he is the one who Has not only given it to us, but he

informs our conscience through his word where you talked about the idea

that You Know the first time that you commit a sin a

particular sin.

You ought to as you even as you are committing it.

There are be fire alarms going off for you.

You ought to be very concerned and worried and nervous.

Because you know that you're doing the wrong thing but over time you can actually sear your conscience by

Repeating that sin or repeating other sins and actually dull your conscience to the point where you

no longer Feel the guilt and the weight of your sin.

We got to this point last week that our conscience Now this is kind of an odd

thing to say, but our conscience can lie to us.

How could our conscience lie to us?

Why would our conscience lie to us?

Okay, because we're rationalizing.

I mean, I always come back to you.

I don't always come back to it I mean that you know You guys are gonna say what's the big?

Verse in all the Bible or the big passage and all the Bible where all the most difficult questions are answered is

Romans 9, but another one that is very

Handy and Comes up a lot is Jeremiah 17 9.

Why would that be?

You don't have to turn there.

But if you just think about it for a moment, does anybody know Jeremiah 7 17 9 or Gary?

The heart of man is desperately wicked.

In fact, the Prophet says who can know it and the idea is that nobody can know the depth of the

depravity that is in the human heart.

So our conscience can lie to us it can actually excuse what it ought to accuse.

And that's why the work of the Holy Spirit is so important.

Maybe the Quintessential example in the Old Testament of somebody

dulling their conscience For a long period of time was David.

What did David do?

He sinned.

Yeah, he committed adultery and murder.

Now those things you would think I mean, especially them.

Well, I think the whole thing the adultery part, you know was kind of a slippery slope where he

sees Bathsheba and she's appealing to him and you know, so the whole thing, you know he didn't guard his

eyes and we can go through all that but Then She

you know, the problem comes up, of course when she is with child.

So now He's the king.

He's committed this sin and rather than confess it to the people. He

Decides he's gonna cover it up.

How do you cover it up you get rid of her husband?

So he sent to the front lines he dies essentially David.

Make sure that he dies in combat.

We would I think it's pretty clear He murdered him.

He wanted him dead and brought about the circumstances to make that happen.

So then he can Take Bathsheba to himself with no consequence.

No human consequence.

Anyway, I think we even said this maybe last week

and if we didn't we'll say it now.

What do you suppose that David's thinking?

He's committed adultery.

He's committed murder and guess what?

Nobody knows.

Nobody knows what he's done.

These are the perfect crimes.

He's gotten away with it.

He has nothing to fear after all.

He is the king.

Nobody knows what David has done except God.

I'm sure Bathsheba knows too, but she's not talking.

She's in you know, wit sec, but God sends Nathan

To convict David of his sin.

David had numbed his conscience, but God is the Lord of our consciences.

God was not going to let David's conscience remain in a

coma as it were and History would

tell us that there have been many instances in which the church has tried to

Be God tried to usurp the role of God Taking God's authority and saying

since we are God's earthly representative.

We can bind your conscience by telling you what you must believe and how you must behave.

Can you think of examples where the church has?

Either gone overboard in putting commandments on people or has

grossly Underdone things.

Can you think of either what either one where the church has created?

Burdens for people's consciences or where they have wrongly removed them from people's consciences

Mr. Dunn.

Well, that's okay.

You can do one or the other.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

So if you don't do a certain thing by a certain time you're excommunicated.

I mean I can think of What is Roman Catholicism say if you intentionally miss

church, what is that?

It's a mortal sin.

It's a mortal sin if you intentionally miss church mortal.

Yes, Bob Sabbath observance would be one that people put on

Christians yes.

Yeah, there are all kinds of Rules or restrictions the the Seventh -day Adventists have it on

Saturday.

Anybody have any kind of when they were growing up any kind of Sabbath rules?

My daughter raises her hand.

What is that?

Go ahead.

You want to give us a Sunday rule?

We don't talk like that on Sunday, right?

We get in the car and you know, they'd start sniffing each other.

I go kids and this is exact the exact voice I'd go.

We don't do that on Sunday.

We don't talk to each other like that on Sunday.

Why would I say it like that?

No, not because Sunday's a holy day.

Because I was mocking the whole idea of Sabbath if I if I could be honest.

The whole idea was we don't ever talk to each other like that, but I wanted to make a point.

So I was just like now kids.

We don't hate each other on Sundays like that.

Like there's a special set of rules, you know.

You may not take the baseball bat to your brother on Sunday Monday through Saturday perfectly fine Sunday.

I've got to draw the line.

You know, that's why I think yes.

Excellent.

Excellent Karen.

Yeah, there are blue laws here.

I mean, I mean I didn't grow up in Massachusetts.

What sort of things were you not allowed to do on Sundays?

By alcohol, right?

I mean you have to love those Puritans.

What was that?

By lottery tickets really?

Well that that ought to be Monday through Sunday.

The stores stores are closed.

Right stores.

A lot of the stores are closed.

Yep.

It it.

Yeah, no, no meats on Friday, especially, you know during Lent in fact, I used to even in the

jails in Southern, California, I'd go to the The officers dining room and I almost

never ate there because I just thought okay who's making the food.

It's the inmates.

I'll pass.

But they would often serve fish.

On Fridays and I'm like, oh, yeah LA County Jail where you can commit murder and do a lot of other things, but you

will not eat meat on Friday.

It'll be fish and fish only school

cafeterias.

Yeah, because everybody, you know, I mean, hey eating meat on Friday could cost you years in purgatory.

Yeah, these are all right.

And I mean, you know, I joke sometimes about the Don't smoke don't chew don't go with girls who do.

You know, but that's like fundamentalism.

Don't have playing cards in your house that have faces on them.

Why?

Those are idols, right.

You've never heard that one.

Well, I'll be visiting your house and we'll be having a look at this.

You yeah, you play well actually, you know, you're joking.

He says you play rook there.

There are actually decks of cards where they only have numbers on them.

You know so that you don't commit the heinous sin of having an you know an image in your

house.

So yeah, there are all sorts of things like that.

But the church can rob people of their Christian Liberty.

Because Christians are to be moral examples of the watching world, right?

We should be different we say there should be if you live exactly the same as your neighbor

something's wrong if You speak exactly the same way as your neighbor.

There's something wrong.

So then what do we do?

I Mean, I don't know if you've ever had this experience.

Somebody is a new Christian and what they what do they want you to tell them to do?

Give me you know, give me a list of five things that I should stop doing or help me to sit.

You know help me to get my life, right?

We're supposed to be moral examples.

So we've it's easy to fall into the habit of moralism or legalism.

To so that we can feel more holy.

One of the major differences between Rome and the Reformed churches is that we acknowledge.

We acknowledge here, especially a Bethlehem Bible Church that the church may.

Err, I like to say err, it can be err or error.

I just like err because it sounds bad err.

That What why is it possible for the the leadership here at Bethlehem Bible Church?

Why is it possible for us to make mistakes?

I you're laughing at the idea that we can't make mistakes.

That's good.

That's.

Why is that Andrew?

I'm a sinner.

That's not a nice thing to say.

Especially this early on a Sunday morning, you don't know me.

Yeah, thank you, thank you, oh the shame Bob

Okay have remaining the remaining sin nature.

Yes.

And the church is made up of fallible people who make fallible decisions.

Rome on the other hand says what that it is infallible all of its

councils are infallible all of its Teaching and tradition is infallible.

So there's a big difference there but if a church is in error and teaches that

Error in such a way that it binds the conscience as that it binds the consciences of people to

that error then it is Taking the place of God it is

establishing law where there was no law established by God.

If a church says you may not do something and God has never

Established that as a law then essentially the church has become a law

unto itself.

And it has taken the place of God.

It's usurp the power of God Luther and that's why we say by the way

If you if you come to me or you come to pastor Mike or you come to Scott or you come to Pradeep and ask

for advice.

Well, we can give you advice but a lot of times we might preface it by something that sounds very, you know Godly and holy, but it's

true, right?

I Have no authority beyond what the Bible says.

So if you ask me a question that is beyond the scope of the Bible, I'm probably gonna say something like well

Okay, I can't really think of anything in the Bible that would cover that but my advice would be and my advice is not binding

Upon you.

You know if I say well, I would probably buy the Toyota instead of the Honda.

You're free you're not in sin if you buy the Toyota and by the way I would probably I don't know if I would say that or not.

I usually have bought Hondas so

sorry, okay, but Luther

Did not claim infallibility he understood that the Pope

was just a man no matter what the Pope said his statement was Luther was unless I'm convinced

by sacred scripture or by Evidence or plain manifest reason I

Cannot recant because my conscience is held captive to what?

The Word of God by the Word of God.

Luther told them that if they could show him that the Pope was infallible.

That church councils were infallible.

Then he would submit to them right he says, okay you guys say these things you say that the Pope is

infallible.

Well if you can demonstrate that in other words show me in Scripture where it says the Pope is

infallible.

I'm fine with that show me where it says that church councils are infallible.

I'll submit to those things.

But he would not recant unless he was shown his error from the Word of God.

Okay, so we're studying the London Baptist confession of faith, and you say well.

This is composed by men men are fallible.

This is not the Bible that we're looking at and we're not required to submit to it.

It has no right over our conscience.

And if we are shown if we leadership are shown error within it then the confession must be corrected.

No tradition nor teaching is above or even on par with Scripture itself.

Let me say that again nothing outside of Scripture is On par with

Scripture itself, it's Scripture alone.

Scripture must be the rule of faith and life.

Let's see.

Okay, so the confession goes on to say this and the requiring of an implicit faith and absolute and

blind obedience so when if I I'm going to use this term implicit faith and

it means an absolute or blind obedience.

We would not do that we would not require implicit faith we would not require blind

obedience to us.

Here have you ever had any have you ever been in a church that had that kind of thing where you just have to?

Blindly obey your leaders

is that me or the lights or what is that?

Okay.

If you've ever been in a situation like that me if I walk this way.

It's not working.

What would you call that blind obedience to leadership.

I Would call it a cult and I've been in you know, I wasn't a

cult the Mormon Church is like that.

Because they have a prophet who speaks to God, how do you question that right?

Well in in that very in a very real sense the Catholic Church and we need to keep in mind when we're talking about

The Westminster Confession of Faith or the London Baptist Confession of Faith, it's written in response to the

teachings of Rome.

So when they talk about implying or requiring an implicit faith and absolute and blind

obedience.

Well, there was in Roman Catholicism absolute blind obedience to

the Pope.

RC says we should respect our ministers and other leaders, but that respect does not mean Slavish devotion to

everything they say.

Which is good, especially if you're talking to Mike about food, but We

must be careful Lest we have an absolute implicit faith in any human authority.

Only God deserves that.

I Remember the old sign, you know it or you still see it in some places in God.

We trust all others do what pay cash?

Becky knows to believe doctrines or obey commands that come from men not from God

out of a sense of duty is to destroy the liberty of conscience and reason also

implicit blind faith destroys liberty.

Destroys Christian Liberty.

Well, how so?

How does implicit blind faith?

How does that?

Restrict our Christian Liberty.

How does it surrender our Christian Liberty?

Okay, free will Andrew.

You lose the ability to make any decisions for yourself because you are to submit yourself to a

singular human authority I mean it can get It

can get pretty strong.

I know of churches where if you want to date someone you have to get approval from The

elder board.

I think that's a little extreme.

Although we're thinking about it here.

You know.

Just in some cases We call it the

Becky clause.

What's that?

Well, I think that's a different I mean parents have Explicit not

implicit authority over their children.

So that's a different matter.

Good question.

Be careful to understand the Christian Liberty refers to the areas of our life where God has not laid down rules.

RC gives the story about when he was On the faculty of a Christian college and he

and a colleague became Greatly involved in ping -pong tournaments table tennis.

They like to play a lot.

But his friend got so wrapped up in ping -pong that he would he was either

playing or practicing or Thinking about playing or practicing all the time to the neglect of

preparing for his lectures.

You know, he went in a class and would just go walk around and go Okay.

Now if you want to really get the guy to serve They're like hello Problem.

This is a philosophy class.

So he finally comes to RC and he says he's decided to stop playing ping -pong all together out of

Conscience it was a matter of conscience for him.

He says There's a quote.

He says I've become addicted to ping -pong and right now I cannot handle it in a mature and moderate way.

Now, what do you think about that?

Here's a man who's a faculty Professor, you know at a university and he he says I have to stop playing

ping -pong because I can't control my compulsion.

To play ping -pong.

Okay, I think it takes a lot of maturity to know yourself that well and to admit that other thoughts.

Jeremiah 17 9.

I mean, it's you know, I could put it another way.

It's the Clint Eastwood theology a man's got to know his limitations, right?

I mean, this is just this is smart Charlie.

Okay, anything not done in faith is sin, right?

Right when it becomes an issue for you, you know, and I just think I'm not gonna call anybody out.

But there are people who play games so much video games so much that they can't get to church on time.

Or that they can't do they can't function in the real world.

You know if you're at college and you play a game so much that you can't get your studies done.

You're flunking out of class.

Well It's not a sin.

It might be When it's stopping you from living your life.

It's something that you definitely should put off now, you know should should a church should anybody in your life?

See, you know before you get into this difficulty say, you know.

What playing video games a sin playing ping -pong is a sin, you know.

Playing the guitar is a sin.

No.

But when something controls your life and is having a negative impact in other things that you need to

do.

It's good to have the maturity to be able to step back and say I need to stop doing that.

RC says that this way non sinful activities that dominate our lives become sin.

I'll say it again non sinful activities.

There's nothing wrong with it that Dominate our lives become sin.

The same situation can develop with playing golf playing cards reading novels watching TV we are free

to enjoy these things as long as they do not rule our lives and Our tendency is to think that the only proper

corrective To an abuse is complete disuse, which is what this man did.

He's just stopped playing ping -pong altogether.

He could have maybe slowed down, but he knew it in himself.

He couldn't do it.

So he just stopped playing for a while.

That's fine.

He can pick it up later if he thinks he can Control it.

But what happens to us or to some people if they have a problem with a particular issue in

their life.

Well, what do they do in response?

They stop doing whatever it is and they want to Impose that standard on other

people, right.

RC says this way.

He says we start posting rules and regulation concerning all kinds of things that God allows his people to use

in the liberty of conscience and we try to take away the liberty of others in Order to protect them from falling into the

abuses, right?

I did this to excess.

It was a problem in my life.

Therefore you may not do it.

Yeah, we don't do this because it might lead to that so Because we're so

afraid of you falling into this then don't even do this.

Right, it seems like it seems like wisdom, but is it.

It's just restricting your liberty on the basis that it might lead to sin

in some cases it could be right.

I mean Yes.

Yes, and you know, it's interesting to me because when I think about I was talking to my

My aunt who lives in Utah here.

Actually, I only have one aunt so it doesn't matter where she lives.

Just amused me just to make that observation.

But it's kind of you know, they're really into Genealogy and it's just really it's kind of

frightening as we start recounting all the people in our family tree who?

Were alcoholics and it either killed them or you know drastically

Affected their lives and I'm and I'm like, well, how did that not?

You know happen to me and I I don't know the grace of God, right?

But you know as I could see as Knowing

that that was in So prevalent in my family, you know.

If I wanted to have that kind of rule for myself that I'm not gonna drink then I think there might even be wisdom to

It but it's not something I should then impose on other people.

Paul Told Timothy, let's look at first Timothy 5 verse 23.

Because this is interesting this this verse.

I mean there are some verses that you look at and you go.

Well this this has a little bit of difficulty,

especially for the fighting fundamentalist and I'm all

about.

You know putting the fun back in fundamentalism and taking the fight out of it.

Somebody read first Timothy 5 23 will.

Okay.

Thank you.

Now you read that this is Paul talking to Timothy not a doctor to a patient but an

apostle to a pastor a Pastor and what does he say?

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine.

Now, what are some of the arguments that people make about this?

It's just grape juice.

What about that argument.

Daniel

how is grape juice get which is a great question, how's it gonna help my stomach?

There's another argument against that argument which would be this.

I mean first of all.

Some alcohol would have an effect.

How would the alcohol have an effect on your stomach?

It would kill some of the bacteria, right?

I mean they didn't have they weren't aware.

They had it they weren't aware of the properties of chlorine back then.

You know for killing bacteria and stuff like that so a little bit of wine would kill some bacteria.

I'm sorry.

Drugs don't get colds and that's why you know back in it back in the back in the day.

You know, you could have what is that the Vicks stuff the?

Yeah, but no, but the the drip NyQuil man, oh man.

I remember the first time I ever had that stuff.

I was like 18 My dad said, you know, I had a really bad cold.

And so I had some.

I was like What is that he says there alcohol that goes he says now this is

my dad, you know really careful reader of labels.

He says I don't think so.

So.

So so I pull up the label and I'm not kidding.

I just remember going.

This is 25 % by volume.

I'm going down.

Which you know, it's 50 proof.

I mean for me mister, you know never had a drink of my life.

That was that was pretty dramatic.

Have a little marijuana, I don't think marijuana has Antibacterial properties.

I could be corrected there.

In fact, what I've seen is it leads to a certain grossitude but anyway.

Yeah, he could he could say that.

Theoretically, I don't again.

I don't under the spirit guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I don't think he would say that.

Let's talk a little bit more.

I mean, I don't want to spend too much time about that.

But you say grape juice.

I'm not a big proponent typically of word studies per se because they can lead you down some real Scary

places, but in this one oinus grape juice.

It's interesting because Paul uses exactly the same word when he says what?

Do not be drunk with Wine, let's say it's grape juice

how much grape juice do you have to drink to get drunk a Whole lot, I mean, you know, you can get drunk

on water, right?

It just takes gallons.

But you can get the same effect by drinking just a ton of water.

But how much grape juice did it take to get drunk?

And I think the answer would be a lot.

So it's that's just a nonsense argument.

Well, it's only grape juice.

No, it's really it's really not.

Well wine wasn't the same back then.

Okay, it wasn't the same back then but it wasn't nothing there was alcohol in it.

But some would like to tell Timothy Contra the Apostle Paul disregard Paul's

advice take no wine lest you become what a drunkard.

You're gonna become addicted to wine if you start drinking a little bit of wine for your stomach.

So to guard against the abuse of something that God allows we prohibit it altogether

and what is that so.

You know, it's taking the place of God what God has.

Left us free to decide for ourselves.

We must be careful not to just set up rules to Guard against

everything.

I mean if somebody if I want to say for myself, I don't want to drink.

Well, that's fine, but I can't run around imposing that on everyone else when the Word of God doesn't do that.

No, it's not legalism.

It's just fine.

I mean, I you know true confession.

I'll just turn the mic off for a second.

When I was a young man, I think I I think I well I know for a fact I was 20 and I got inebriated one

time.

It was the worst experience of my life and As I was stumbling across the room, I just thought

like Lucille only she wasn't stumbling.

But I just thought I am never doing this again, I didn't make a promise to God.

I just thought I am never doing I didn't like it.

It was not fun.

In fact is what's stunning to me is that people can do that and you know wind up getting sick and all that

and Then do it again.

I don't understand that it's crazier than childbirth.

I I mean At least there there's a positive outcome, you know.

A year or two later the woman will remember or forget about how miserable it was and she'll have another baby and I'm like, okay.

Now I can understand that because it's like, you know a couple years apart.

But people go out like every week or even some people every night and get drunk and I'm like, it's miserable.

Why would you do that?

Anyway, we digress.

Yes.

All right.

Are you gonna confess to?

Tell tell the truth and shame the devil.

Okay.

Hi Charlie.

They're very serious complications from from drinking.

Well, and you know again if the microphone were off I'd tell you what I wanted to do as you know, if they I used to say if

they may be king of, California.

Here's my program to get rid of drunk drivers because I hate it.

I mean it is it is dangerous.

You know, they talk about a lot of things.

Opioids guns everything but alcohol kills more people than just about anything else in this country outside of maybe

maybe cancer but.

Yeah.

So, I mean you have the liberty to do it, but it's it can be pretty dumb.

You don't have the liberty and we're gonna talk more about it.

You don't have the liberty to do what to sin and when it comes alcohol that would be to get drunk.

So yeah, we want to avoid the very appearance of evil.

The question is, you know is having a drink Evil and you know, I used to say the only kind of drink I want is one that

comes with an umbrella on it but.

Because I'm a real tough guy.

Anyway, let's move on 1689 they who upon pretense of Christian Liberty in other words

as a display of Christian Liberty do practice any sin or cherish any sinful

lust as They do thereby pervert the main design of the grace of the gospel to their own

destruction.

So they wholly destroy the end of Christian Liberty.

Which is that being delivered out of the hands of all our enemies we might serve the Lord

without fear in Holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our lives.

That's why we have Christian Liberty.

Not so that we can abuse it.

But so that we can serve the Lord all the days of our lives in holiness and righteousness before him

now Christian Liberty.

When is it abused.

It's abused.

Let's turn to Romans 14 and we're going to be in Romans 14 most of.

Well the rest of our time this morning and probably next week as well talking about Christian Liberty.

Christian Liberty is abused when it becomes an excuse for libertinism

or Licentiousness, which will develop a little bit.

Would somebody read verses 1 to 3 of Romans 14 in another place in One

of his letters of the Corinthians there were disputes

Over eating meat that had previously been offered to idols.

After the pagan ceremonies the meat was put on sale in the marketplace at a discount.

Right they would offer titles and since the idols Surprisingly did

not consume the food.

Because they don't breathe or eat or speak or eat.

They Wouldn't consume the food and then you know the I Suppose the pagan

priests or whoever to make a buck would then sell it out in the marketplace.

And of course it wasn't may I just say it wasn't USDA shrink -wrapped and you know all that kind of stuff.

They didn't keep it properly refrigerated and then bring it down to the market.

So, you know if somebody thought well, I wouldn't buy that meat because it's been out for hours.

I wouldn't blame them on that one, but that wasn't why they wouldn't buy it.

But some Christians Took opportunity the opportunity to save money, right?

They're like, hey, this guy's got this meat.

It's you know, Al's cut rate meat thing.

And yes was offered to idols, but we can save some money doing that.

So we're gonna buy it and Others would look at that and say how

could you buy that meat?

How could you eat that meat?

It was offered to idols.

It was it was basically, you know put on a platter before an idol and offered in the name

of whatever So -called gods and now you're going to eat it.

Aren't you then?

Participating in the worship of these idols.

How can you do that?

So back to Romans 14.

What Paul's discussing here are matters that are called odd de fora or odd de fora which

means things that are indifferent.

What RC is talking about here is things that God has neither forbidden nor commanded.

He's given no instruction about it.

He hasn't said thou shalt not eat Meat offered idols and he hasn't said you

shall eat meat.

Offered idols.

So here's what we have.

We have a system or a situation where Christian Liberty reigns.

And some will say well again, how can you do that we're to separate ourselves from sin and

Clearly, it's sinful to participate in pagan ceremonies, right?

Would we agree with that?

We wouldn't go to.

I don't know.

What's a good pagan ceremony that we could go to a Christmas tree lighting.

Oh, I'm kidding.

No.

What's it?

What's a pagan ceremony that you probably wouldn't go to.

I'll hear that confession later.

He DJ'd a Wiccan wedding.

I see I would I mean, I think I went to was it a Wiccan wedding.

Something when I was a young man, one of my cousins Got married in

some whacked -out deal in a backyard by some Wiccan priestess or something, you know, yeah.

That was that was crazy.

But yeah, I mean there are Things that we ought not to participate.

I mean today I would say you ought not to go to a homosexual so -called

marriage because not a marriage in fact, it's a

Repudiation of marriage is what it is.

So we want to be careful not to be involved in sinful things.

Let me just we'll just close with this RC.

When he was, you know way back when when he was ordained a minister.

He was in the United Presbyterian Church which doesn't exist anymore and

Eventually the UPC was it was it had its own symbols get it UPC

some sorry.

It was absorbed into the United States Presbyterian Church or the United Presbyterian Church of America.

Or what is it PC USA?

Presbyterian Church of the USA.

And when he was ordained the PC USA was ordaining women to be ruling

elders and teaching elders in other words ministers pastors and RC thought this was

unbiblical.

He believed it was unbiblical.

So this is how he sort of Avoided the issue if he was in a session, which is what they

call a larger group of elders.

Can in a session will supervise several different congregations, so it's kind of a

Super Board of Elders like we would have here.

He would obey their judgments and honor and Recognize the office that they held even though there were women in

this even though he clearly saw first Timothy 2 and first Timothy 3 and other passages

of Scripture as Explicitly rejecting the idea that women could teach or exercise authority.

However, he would be he would excuse himself when it came to actually ordaining women

he just as a matter of conscience.

He didn't want to be involved in that and His idea was then.

And this is a quote from him.

We will live at peace with the church the US or the PC USA as

a loyal minority.

We just won't speak our minds, and we'll just shut up, but we're not going to help what we

see as being a sinful practice.

However the day came when the denomination decided to that all teaching and ruling elders must

participate in ordination ceremonies.

In order to stay within the denomination he was going to have to violate his conscience.

So he appeals for an exemption it goes to the denominations ruling body they held a vote after a debate

and then there were 713 votes cast and RC got 13 of those

so he lost.

And he says had the church dealt with the matter according to the instructions of the New Testament.

They would have considered me of course they would have never done this in the first place if they were really set on the New Testament, but they

would have considered me a weaker brother.

That's what Paul's writing about in Romans 14 the weaker brother.

The one whose conscience is set too high in other words.

They would have considered me a weaker brother and allowed me to stay within my scruple in other

words my principle my conscience that wouldn't have Commanded me to violate my conscience

said he was given three options number one change his mind and submit.

Number two await prosecution where he would be defrocked and drummed down to the denomination or number

three exercise his right to peaceably withdraw from the denomination which is what he did

so I mean I Guess you could say he compromised in the beginning.

But in a way that he thought protected his conscience.

And then eventually they said no your conscience is gonna have to go and we see so many things coming into

denominations.

Where they're appointing not just women.

But people who practice homosexuality to positions of authority.

So we're gonna see more and more issues like this where you're going to you're gonna see churches closed you're gonna see people

leaving denominations.

And that's just the way it is.

But he eventually withdraws and we need to close.

So what we'll talk about next week what we're going to be talking about is not just our conscience but about

this whole idea of being separate being holy and what what do people do sometimes when they're

looking to Separate themselves from sin, and we'll just I'll just give you a little

preview.

It's one thing to say I will not participate in

in anything that furthers for example the

Kind of the the issue or the sin of Homosexuality.

I will not participate anything that is involved in that well it's one thing to say that and it's another thing to say for

example, I know that Disney has a Homosexual day a pride day down there at

Disney World therefore.

I will not buy anything from Disney.

I will not watch any Disney programming.

I will not have anything to do.

What is that called?

Okay a boycott, but there's a Another word for it if I want to separate myself from

sin.

I Just don't participate in anything.

That's Okay, but if I want to separate

myself from it.

That's one thing but this idea of Separating myself from people who do the things that I

want to be separated from it's called the second degree of separation, right?

So I not only don't I not only do not want to I

don't participate in homosexuality in any way.

Anyone who does I will not associate with anyone who promotes that I will not associate with so

that's like the second degree of separation and you know there you if you go if you

go into this much you can see all kinds of things well because

Such and such a preacher did this or said this.

Therefore I will not associate with him and by the way anybody who associates with him I will not

associate with and you know, so you get to like six degrees of separation.

You know on all these issues and aren't you holy?

I Mean it gets to a point where it's just kind of crazy.

So what we're going to talk about again is more Not establishing

legalistic standards, but also keeping our Consciences

clear so we'll do that next week father.

We thank you for your word.

We thank you that it gives us everything pertaining to life and godliness.

We need nothing else Lord.

We pray that you would keep us in your word that you would keep us attuned

To how we ought to think and Lord as we as we look to things

Amazing things where people just even set aside the Word of God for their own feelings

Lord for each one here.

I pray that you would just remind us again and again that our feelings our hearts

our brains our minds are just Afflicted and

Affected by sin and by sinful thoughts and by the world and so many things

Father help us to tune our consciences to keep them in tune.

To yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit to listen to his word and not to the

things that we think.

Our God speaking to us father we thank you for your son the Lord Jesus

Christ for His sacrifice for the gospel and father.

We pray these things in Jesus name.

Amen.