Ryan Jack Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, ìBut we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour ,î so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isnít for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as weíre called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Hereís our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Meeting Ryan Jack and the Australia Connection

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and what are those things called, truffles or something, Lindor truffles? Lint. Lint? Yeah, lint.

Lint. But what does it say Lindor on there? I donít know. It sounds like some kind of city in Lord of the Rings or something. Lindor.

Lindor. I think theyíre 900 calories each. Well, today we have a special guest in studio, Ryan Jack. Ryan Jack, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Good day, Mike. Thanks for having me. Do you normally listen to the show?

I knew you were going to ask me this. I thought you were going to ask. How many episodes have I listened to. How did we meet?

How did we meet? Well, through your son. Yes, and I think we were at In-N-Out Burger, and you offered to fly my wife and I from Auckland to Mordor. Mordor? Itís a little prettier than that. And what did you do?

What did you say? I thought to myself, ìHow does this 20-year-old college student have enough money to fly my wife and I around ?î. And I said, ìThank you for the offer ,î but we never made it from New Zealand to Australia.

But thank you for the offer. Yeah, well, and I think you missed an opportunity, but dodged a bullet, so. I know. Will I ever go back?

Probably not. So, we met through Luke, youíre from Australia, not much of an accent. When was the last time you were back, and is it as bad as they say it is regarding vax, jabs, mandates, passports, et cetera?

Australia, the Pandemic, and Quarantine

Yeah, I mean, itís been ongoing for almost two years. I flew back in March when the pandemic first hit. I remember I was like two days into work from home in California, and my dad calls me saying, ìRyan, you got to get over here and help me with the business .î.

So, in March, I flew over and was there for about four months helping out in the nursing home industry.

And didnít you have to be sequestered for 14 days or something? I did, yeah.

I remember I arrived in the airport, and my dad wasnít there to pick me up. And Iím like, ìWell, whereís my dad ?î. He calls me and says, ìHey, I canít risk getting COVID, so Iím going to put you in a hotel .î.

Because you had to quarantine for two weeks, but not necessarily in a hotel yet. That came a week after. So, I quarantined with my sister, didnít leave the hotel room for two weeks. How did you get the food?

Did they slip it under the door?

Yeah. What if you were extra hungry? What would you do?

Too bad. My parents were disciplining me through not providing food.

Yeah, but to show you how evil the world is and how wicked and sinful people are, werenít some of the guards guarding you, sleeping with some of the lady lock-ins, because the lady lock-ins would exchange their bodies for access to the town?

Wasnít that true?

Yeah. And it was, it actually caused one of the big outbreaks that we had in Melbourne was through that. Because they were working a couple of jobs, and that was one of them, and theyíd go spread it to the community.

Crazy. How old are you, Ryan Jack? Twenty-five, twenty-six in a month.

So, seriously. Okay. Whatís your middle name? Andrew. Ryan Andrew Jack. Yep. And does anybody mess around with you about Jack Ryan and all that stuff? Everywhere I go.

Seriously. If they see the name, theyíll make a note of it.

Yeah, because, you know, on my phone, it can say, ìAbendroth Mike .î Yes. Yeah. Incoming. Yeah. So, people are like, ìOkay.

Jack Ryanís calling me .î. And whenever youíre, like, on a list, they always start with the last name. So, Iím always getting Jack Ryan. And I didnít actually know that until I started playing rugby, and then people would start making comments about it, and I was like, ìOh, whoís this Jack Ryan guy ?î.

Interesting.

Australian Evangelicalism and Church Background

What do you want the American evangelical audience to know about Australian evangelicalism? Is it the same? Is it different? What goes on between the two countries? More influence of the U .S. into Australia, or vice versa?

How does that all work?

Yeah. I think itís interesting. You have, like, a really big brethren group, an Anglican group. So, I think itís a little more influenced by the U .K., but I remember being there, and nobody knew John MacArthur, who was, like, my hero at the time, but everybody knew John Piper.

And so, all my Christian friends, John Piper was really big. Mark Driscoll was really big.

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Now, when I think of Anglican and brethren, brethren, of course, are conservative in lifestyle and stuff like that. But the Anglicans in Australia, my guess is, theyíre like Anglicans in Africa.

That is, conservative, theyíre not pro-homosexual, et cetera. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I didnít really know much about it at the time, and I still donít know all the nuances, but I remember going to this Anglican churchóthey had a youth group that I go to on Friday nightsóand they would pray to the Trinity and Father, Son, Spirit, and Iíd never heard that before.

Iím like, ìWhy are Theyíd have five minutes for each one .î And Iím like, ìThatís interesting.

Iíve not heard that .î I donít think heís from New Zealand, but I think Graham Goldsworthy, heís Anglican Australia. Yeah. Isnít that right? Yeah. Luke, is that right? He puts his hand up. Heís our fact-checker.

Yeah. So we recorded two shows with Luke, and then Renee and Luke are now in the studio audience behind the Plexiglas there tható I donít want their germs. I know. I know. I know. So, and you met at the Masterís University, Masterís College, you met Luke and Renee?

Yeah.

Yeah, I did. First impressions. First impressions. Well, it took about two years for Renee to take to my liking, or maybe the opposite. He wasnít a big fan of me for a little while, but I won him over eventually.

Renee can be that way. Heó. Welló. But once you win him over, youíre set. And heís your biggest advocate. I mean, he is a hype man to the fullest. So, Iím glad thatís happening, because you donít want to be not in as good graces.

I know. Sometimes those Filipino gang guys, I mean, Iím scared. They just come out. I know. I know. And what about Luke? Did Luke become your friend first, or vice versa, howíd that work?

I think we were kind of kindred spirits, because we both started in youth ministry. Heíd already been at Grace for a year doing the youth ministry, and then I joined after. And we were side-by-side, or the roommates, or whatever they call them, something.

And we talked a lot about relationships and assurance, and trying to figure out what does that really look like, how do we ground our assurance and whatnot. So, I think we bonded over that, because I was on a similar journey during that time.

We donít say journey on this show. Yeah. You know what? I knew that was a word you would hate. I tried to avoid it, but it slipped out. Do you like the band Journey?

Only Donít Stop Believing. Thatís all I know. Okay. I mean, theyíre good musicians, but not really my kind of style. Who have you been listening to the last 24 hours? The Smiths.

A band Iíve never really listened to before until the last 12 hours, and I canít stop listening. Okay. Thatís fun.

We get to, as Christians, just enjoy a whole panoply of things, including secular music, like classical music. I always thought it was funny. People are like, ìI never listen to anything but sacred music .î And then theyíre listening to some classical music composed by some crazy man.

And I appreciate that, because I think God made people to perform music pretty well, and so I donít think Christians are the only ones that are good at that.

True. Now I have a book in front of me, and Iím going to read you part of a song, since this leads right into that. And then you just tell me what you think about the song. Okay. Itís of a religious nature, and I found this at theÖ.

It was given away for free. Okay? Okay. ÌHail, Holy Queen, enthroned above, O Maria! Hail, Mother of mercy and of love, Maria! Triumph all ye cherubim, sing with us ye seraphim, heaven and earth round the hymn, ìSalve, salve, salve, Regina !î.

Oh, our life, our sweetness here below, Maria, our hope in sorrow and in woe, O Maria !î. Was that the smiths? I like the sound ofÖ. What? Was that the smiths? Thatís the best line! Thatís the best line!

No, that is a hymn to Mother Mary from the St. Joseph Sunday Missal and Hymnal. Revised liturgy. Yeah, Iím surprised you kept it this long. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, it just makes it kind of fun, because I do that, and if Iím ever doing a radio show, if you were to listen someday to No Compromise Radio, itís nocompromiseradio .com.

Sometimes if I donít know what to do, I just read something from the message. Okay. Letís hear it.

What do you got? Do you think you could do a better job of translating than the message has done? Yes. Iím not trying to be prideful, butÖ.

Thatís good. Overwhelmingly yes, I believe it. True story, when I first started working on verse-by-verse exposition, I started with the book of James, and there are nuances that you translate from the Greek that would probably take too much space to have a Bible.

So, in other words, itíd be five times as big, but I would do my own translation. I thought every book I preach through, Iíll do my own translation, and one day Iíll have the Mike Ebendroth translation, and I thought that was a great idea.

Iím glad I didnít do it, because thatís the last thing the world needs is the Mike Ebenroth translation, but if I would have it for my own self, based on my own exegesis, that wouldnít have been a bad thing.

Translation, Exegesis, and Bible Versions

Well, Iíve got a question, I guess, with that. Is there a word that you get frustrated at thatís not translated right? Is there any particularÖ? I know the ESV, you know, the begotten son, thatís obviously a big qualm weíve got, but is there anything that you have, youíre like, ìOh, I wish they translated this word better .î.

Letís see. You know, obvious words, when you look at Lord God, Sovereign God, and theyíve got mixtures of Yah or Yahweh or Adonai, and they kind of combine things, and itís some Elah, itís not even El or Elohim.

Some of those things, I think, are interesting. I donít want to have to look down on my notes for that. The slave thing, I donít care about, really, one way or the other, because I think thatís overdone with the legacy deal with the slave.

So I donít really care about that that much. What would be some of those? I canítÖ you know what? I canít think ofÖ Thatís some homework. Yeah, yeah. Iím always happy to have young guys on to just give me more work to do.

Yeah, well, hey. You give us enough already. So you were at my home the last week, week and a half, or something like that. It snowed last night, and you were shoveling today. Yeah. Was that part of penance, or you just like to be outside and help?

I think it was just to help me avoid purgatory. So when that whole thing happens, Iím going to just work my way, and youíre really good at offering jobs for us to do.

Well, in light of that, then, tell me how you were. Always tell me a Little bit about that.

Um, well, I thought I was born a Christian, and then I realized that you have to be born again. Well, there you go. And it comes later in life, once you actually can understand knowledge, assent, and trust.

So that came a little later in my life. I like that. I didnít know how to articulate that when I came to faith. But I think, I donít know, Deuteronomy 29, 29, ìThe secret things belong to the Lord .î I came to know the Lord at some point in my youth, I think maybe around 11 or 12.

Okay. Okay. So notÖ you have not lived some kind of crazy, profligate lifestyle, at least externally? Yeah, definitely not externally.

Um, Iíve been always very aware of my own sinfulness and that, you know, I canít earn my way to God, and it actually brought a lot of, uh, insecurity, because I thought for a long time that, um, my sin isnít getting any better, so does that mean Iím really a Christian?

Because I thought sanctification is just this upward trajectory. Itís like a companyís profits, it just shoots up and up exponentially. Real estate market. Yeah. But then I realized thereís a lot of recessions in my life.

Thatís right.

And you live in, letís see if I can think of the town, I donít think itís Camarillo, Carpinteria? Do you live there? A little further north. I go to church in Carpinteria. You live in Goleta. Oh, south, come on.

How do you know these little niche towns? You live at, um, whatís that jail called again? Whatís that thing where they let people out for weekends? Okay. Okay, Ventura.

No. Uh, Santa Barbara. Yeah, there you go. Itís the retirement, retirement village slash party city for all the college kids. Best Parker, I like that, yes. And you go to a church there? Tell us about the church.

I do, yeah. I go to, uh, Christ Church Carpinteria. We have Twitter, Facebook, uh, Bo Beckenham is the pastor. You can listen to his sermons on, uh, Spotify if you want, theyíre really, really good. Um, Iíve been going there since March.

And before that, it kind of, there was a bit of a split from, uh, Reality Carpinteria, and uh, we meet there in, in Carpinteria, but itís been there for only about eight or nine months. And itís a faithful, expositional, Christ-centered church, uh, maybe 200 people.

Pastor Bo is faithful, Christ-centered preacher. He, uh, Iíve been there, I think, once or twice, and we had lunch with him. Yeah, we did. And so, I really like him. Do you remember what we ate? No, but I remember he wears cool boots.

He does. And always a sports coat. Yeah, thatís true. Mm-hmm. And heís got the total California look, you know, the beard and all that stuff. Yeah. What did we eat? We ate Italian food. We did. Yeah.

Some classic pizza. Right. Thatís right. Thatís right. So, why do they say Reality Carp? Is that like, you know, the carp fish? Thatís what I always think of. I would never say that. I know itís Carpinteria, but like, we go to Reality Carp.

Itís because itís, you know, we bring everything. Reality, like, catfish. Yeah.

You donít call it, like, Beth Bible. Well, thatís true. That might be a better name than Bethlehem. I donít know. People might get confused. I think Beth Moore might be preaching here or something.

Oh, the Anglican strikes again, except thatís the unconservative, non-conservative Anglican. So, you go there, and do you have a ministry yet? Youíre pretty new.

Yeah. Itís, a lot of itís pretty, and itís infancy. Weíve got a youth group, about 30 kids come. Iíve been able to teach there this past semester, and Iíll be teaching again. Been doing that for about three months, four months.

And we have, we just started, like, a prayer night, and then just a typical Sunday morning service.

Okay. Is that lady that we met at In-N-Out Burger, does she still attend?

I havenít seen her the last couple weeks, but she has been going the whole time. Okay. Yeah. Rose. Okay, Rose. Okay. And whatís Bo preaching through? Heís going through John. So, weíre up to John 20, I think we just, this week will be the first couple verses of John 20.

Okay. And heís been doing that for, I donít know, three years?

Does he meet with guys and go over systematic theology?

Is that true? Yeah. Weíve got a Tuesday night theology study, weíve been going through Beakeyís systematics, and we had finished MacArthurís back in the summer. Better than Grudemís. Oh, yeah. Weíre not going to go into that one.

Crazy. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so, you masterís university graduate, now at Christ Church. By the way, thatís my favorite all-time church name. Really? Christ Church. Why? I didnít know that. Youíve never said that.

Well, I just think, okay, whose church is it? Itís Christ Church. Christ Church. I mean, I guess Redeemerís fine and other things like that. I wouldnít call myself Redeemer Presbyterian if No Compromise Radio was more Presbyterian than I was.

But thatís another story.

Thatís for the city. Do you think itís missing out on the apostrophe S? Like, is Christ Church, or do you want it Christís Church?

Well, it depends if Christ is a city or a person or a title. Thatís a good point. Christ, yeah. I think it should be Christís Possessive Apostrophe Church. Is that what it is? No, itís just Christ Church.

Oh, itís Christ Church. Christ Church. Is it no longer your favorite now? Yeah, Iím going to have to talk to Bo about that. Okay, yeah. Maybe write him a letter. Yeah, what do you use for translation?

Ooh. ESV? I think so. Ahemos. I think he uses multiple. Although Beaky is King James, although I saw in Reformation Heritage books, sometimes they all use now the new King James, which kind of surprised me.

I submitted a manuscript to them, and they said, ìWould you be willing to put this book in the authorized version, King James version ?î I said, ìOf course .î They still didnít take it. If you had to write a book, what would you write?

Does it have to be spiritual? No. I donít know. Probably something about ownership. Iím a big ownership guy right now. Really? Yeah. Like Jocko stuff. Okay. Ownership or assurance. Maybe both. Yeah. Okay.

Well, maybe you could talk about too much ownership. Jocko good stuff could turn into bad assurance. Because when that alarm rings at 4 .30 and you donít get up, what does that tell you? What happens?

Youíre not good enough. If Jocko was your roommate, would you always get up at 4 .30? Yes. He wouldnít let me sleep in. Okay. Well, Iím going to do what I did with Luke, and Iím going to look at this little sifted Silver John Bletchard compiled quotes, and Iím just going to read you a quote just taken out of nowhere, and then you just tell me what you think.

David Martin Lloyd-Jones. Ooh, good one. ÌIf you do not desire to be holy, I do not see that you have any right to think that you are a Christian .î Interesting.

Holiness, Assurance, and Sanctification

Oh! Because itís Dr. Jones, I like it. I know. I know.

I do think itís true. I thinkÖ. Or letís put it this way. Should Christians have a desire to be holy? Of course. Yes. No doubt. Should Christians base their assurance on their personal holiness? No. I think itís the cart before the horse thing, too.

Okay. You got to have that desire. But what if somebodyís enslaved into some carnal kind of sin, something carnal, all sin is probably carnal, and now theyíre not sensing assurance like they used to, because God hasnít moved, but they have.

Right.

Thatís legit, donít you think? Yeah. I think that, and I think a lot of peopleís experiences are that. You know, we go through these seasons, and sometimes the flesh is winning a little more than youíd like it to.

Okay. So, ìIf you do not desire to be holy, I do not see that you have any right to think that you are a Christian .î Yeah. Doesnít mean that youíre not a Christian. Yeah. But just like when we meet people, and theyíll say, ìIíve been living with my girlfriend for six months .î I say, ìBased on your own profession of faith, 1 Corinthians 6 says, ìFornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God .î So, you should not be calling yourself a Christian.

Yeah. But I donít say to them, ìYouíre not .î Right. Because Iím not the judge. If youíre a fornicator by lifestyle and habit, i .e., 1 Corinthians 6, youíre not.

But I donít really know those things. Iíve kind of moved away from telling people they are or arenít saved, but I do go back to the, if this is what youíre professing and living like, I donít know what assurance you can have because of that.

And I donít know, I mean, Iím not God to judge you, and Heíll do that ultimately, but you know, the Christian doesnít want that. And is it a theme of your life?

Right. And I think when we look at, Ryan, different camps of sanctification, I think every camp says, ìWe want to live a holy life. Christians should live holy lives Î. Itís just, is it the ground of your salvation?

Or is it the grateful fruit and evidence of your salvation? I think thatís where the rub is.

Those categories were helpful for me when I was trying to figure all that out. So helpful.

Covenants, Eschatology, and Dispensationalism

Yeah. Tell me about coming from Masterís University, Iím sure you learned a lot there, even about ownership. Yeah, yeah. And then studying on your own, maybe more Reformed theology. Anything else change?

Law of Gospel now, a different view of assurance, ground evidence, anything else?

Oh, yeah. Especially recently, the covenants. Oh, wow. I should have thought of that. Yeah, yeah. Covenants of redemption, covenant of works, covenant of grace.

Yeah, but if thatís not really, I donít see in the Bible, it says covenant of redemption. So, how can that really be in there? Well, I like what Fesco said. Oh, Iím quoting Fesco. Oh, you were behind the scenes with Fesco, werenít you?

I was. I was supposed to be in that room. You were. Dang. Did I just say, ìDangî on the radio? I was your representative. Yes, thatís right. You were my vicar. Your vicar. So, weíll tell that story in a second, but Fesco said what?

Well, I donít want to butcher it, but his whole thing was that you donít have to define a covenant by the shedding of blood. Itís really on Godís end of making a promise orÖ.

Yeah, whoís got the quote? Maybe O. Palmer Robertson, ìA covenant is a bond sealed in blood .î Is that right? And what do you do if you have a, is it a covenant without blood, right? And then there are some very interesting covenants that people make and are there blood, is there blood involved?

But Fesco doesnít do that. What does he say? Just itís a generic, itís an agreement, itís a pact, itís a bond.

Yeah, I know thatís a simple definition he gave. Yeah. You know, the other thing he said that was really helpful for me was talking about did Adam and Eve receive grace before the fall? Well, thatís a big one.

Thatís a big one. Would there be any reason to have grace before the fall? Right. And of course, guys like Frame and others, theyíd say since God is gracious, Heís always exercising His attributes, and so thereís for grace before the fall, but I donít think youíre going to read anybody who is a strict covenant theologian whoís going to put up with any grace before Adamís fall.

Well, and if youíre a Calvinist, it doesnít make too much sense.

I know, I know, I know. So thatís why they donít like covenant of works because how can it be a work covenant when itís under the auspices of grace too? So covenants, by the way, I always like to say, Ryan, youíve probably said this or heard it said, people said, ìWell, the word covenant of redemption is not in the Bible .î Well, I know, the word Bible is not in the Bible either.

Or the classic Trinity.

Yeah, I know. But itís an underlying theme that you see throughout the whole Scripture.

Itís kind of this biblicistic thing where youíre like, ìWell, if it doesnít say that, then how could we believe it when itís just so crazy ?î. So the covenants, right? The covenant of works, grace, covenant of redemption.

Anything else?

Has your eschatology changed? Itís shifted away from a dispensational view, but I donít know if I am knowledgeable enough to say or have a conviction yet that, you know, is it post pre-Aumil? I donít know.

I mean, I kind of lean towards maybe an Aumil understanding. I just donít, I mean, the whole covenant structure makes sense to me, and I think that lends itself to an Aumil view.

Itís interesting. One of the new professors at Masterís Seminary said that he believes in the covenant of redemption, covenant of works, and covenant of grace, and that he can believe those three things and still be dispensational pre-Aumil.

Or you could be historic pre-Aumil, you could be post-Aumil, or Aumil. I thought that was an interesting statement coming from a Masterís Seminary professor.

Yeah, and I think itís made it more confusing on my end because Iím like, well, I guess, you know, dispensational viewpoints have shifted throughout time. So, you know, you got toÖ. Which dispensationalism?

Which one do we believe in?

Whoís your favorite dispensationalist? John MacArthur. Okay. Whoís your least favorite dispensationalist?

Darby. Darby. Okay, Darby, thatís good. Yeah, oh man, Darbyís dispensational view is, just makes my skin crawl.

Conference Experiences, Trinitarian Care, and Closing Thoughts

So, you go to Omaha for the conference that I was supposed to be speaking at. And by the way, I was pretty terrified with Matthew Barrett and J .V. Fesco, and I would have to get up and speak. I love some of the guys that were there in New York City speaking, but they werenít kind of the powerhouses.

I mean, I had been already reading some of Barrettís stuff, which is good. And then Fesco, I did not expect him to be as articulate and as he just knows everything.

I know. And his background is Calvary Chapel, so he knows us. So, he knows how to kind of talk to us. Yeah, he really knows how to communicate. And so, you guys, I think Pat did some Pactam stuff. I saw a picture of you there behind the scenes.

I would have loved to hang out. And anyway, I was going to be very particular. Sometimes I just get up and run my mouth and do the whole preacher deal, but I was going to be particular about how I talked about Trinitarian things.

Yeah, you got to be careful. I know. I actually wanted to kind of like run it by somebody before. But I didnít get to go, and Iíll go another time. Matter of fact, the two messages that I was supposed to preach there, I had worked on a lot.

Iím going to end up speaking on those in Ohio this May, Lord willing. Thatíll be good. Pat and I at Community Bible Church, Beloit, with Pastor John Tucker. Anyway, the time went by fast. You did a great job.

Thanks. First time. Well, Iíd beÖ First time being on a podcast. Iíd be nervous if I was on a podcast talking about opportunities and Jocko. Well, this is my big break. I think this will spiral you into infamy.

Thatís great. Finally, youíll listen to a No Compromise radio show. I will listen to my own. Ryan Jack, thanks for being on.

Thanks, Mike. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of Godís Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. Weíre right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.