Kayne West, Democrat's war on Christianity, Flat Earth and Open Q&A

All righty, we are live, Apologetics Live. Glad you are with us. We're here to answer your apologetic questions, anything that you may have. Maybe you were challenged with something. You didn't have an answer for it.

Maybe you just want to challenge me. Well, that's possible too. We're going to be trying to get some folks in here to give some challenges. Maybe not on tonight's show. Although tonight, we may end up getting some heat.

And actually, I was supposed to open. I forgot I was going to open with this. Let's play the clip I was supposed to open with. He says, I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. If you watched last week's show, that is, well, he was going by the name of Loki.

But yeah, he in the chat while he was in the private chat was threatening that I should be killed. And so once he did that, I quickly sent that information off to the security officer. And they went to check that out.

And they nicely sent me some information and said, can I get him to confirm that this was actually him? And so I needed to get him recorded and actually admitting that, yes, he did, in fact, threaten my life.

And then I needed to confirm it was him. So I did. I showed him a quick picture and sure enough, he confirmed it was him. So he's now being watched. And so, yeah, that was a mistake on his part. So with that, we wanted to open the show.

That was from last week. We just wanted to wrap that up from last week. Folks, if you want to join here and either can want to participate or participate, ask questions, challenges, whatever with the show, we're going to start off.

Kanye West, Celebrity Conversion, and Cautious Optimism

We're going to start with talking about Kanye West. Has it has it been tiresome yet? We're going to talk about that. If we can get past that. I don't know if we can there. The Democrats have now waged war on Christianity.

We'll talk about that as well. And then if there's time, we'll talk Flat Earth. We'll also be open to your questions. So you could just go to Apologetics Live. So we're here Thursday nights, 8 to 10 Eastern Time.

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We're putting this out here for you. So we hope that you enjoy this. Now with this, I want to, I do want to talk about Kanye West and some things that I want to discuss. Because before I bring, I see that Andrew's already here, or at least I can see his forehead.

You guys can't. He's got the camera like all the way up here, you know, I guess. But there we go. He just moved it down. That was my subtle way of letting him know. Someone says they want to call in. That's from Facebook.

Just go to ApologeticsLive .com and you can get in from there. So here's the thing, folks. I'm going to give you some, basically my thoughts before I bring other people in to talk about this whole issue of Kanye.

Because I've been a little bit bothered by the reaction I have seen from professing Christians toward other professing Christians. So because of that, I really would like to have this something that we can maybe deal with reasonably.

And so, all right, let's just deal with the issue. So Kanye West, for the folks who don't know, was a, I guess, a rap artist. I didn't follow him much. I don't follow music. So I should put that as a preface.

I don't follow music. And maybe that makes me a little bit unbiased because I'm not as I'm not as tainted with being enamored with his celebrity status because I do think that's going to play into some of this discussion.

I don't think that Kanye is someone that prior to a year ago, any Christian, from what I've gathered, maybe even from what he would say, should have been listening to. He seems to be implying that he won't be doing the music that he used to do.

And so I think that what we have to do with this is we need to, oh, then Marlon is watching. So for Marlon, I've meant to mention this. I got this new mug, Encouraging the Culture with Christian Truth by Gospel Truth.

If you don't check out the Gospel Truth YouTube channel, they have some pretty good debates going. I've already heard about how well Matt Slick did a debate with an atheist. It's already been recorded.

So I got to hear about it already. So I think I'm looking very forward to that one, Marlon. You can always come in and talk if you want. So I know that everybody's talking about Kanye West and though maybe we're sick of hearing him about him.

The issue seems to be that about six to nine months ago is from what I can gather. He was in touch with a pastor and this pastor whose name is Adam Tyson. He's a master seminary grad and that's the seminary associated with John MacArthur.

And what we end up seeing is that he seems from all intents and purposes, it seems that he got radically saved, which is a very, very good thing. Why do I say that? Because there's some people who think, no, we shouldn't say he's saved.

Well, whenever someone makes a profession of faith where truth and time go hand in hand. So we're going to want to give enough time to see if it's true. But for right now, love believes all things and I'm going to believe that he's saved.

I'm going to believe from what I can gather that he is someone who is genuinely saved and I believe that he may be. I don't see any evidence to say otherwise. Now, I say that but I know that there's been a lot of people who are challenging this and I think some of the challenges are coming up because of his past or the other thing a reason a lot of people are questioning is we have seen so many quote-unquote celebrities that have let us down supposedly and I challenge you to say when they've let you down.

What were you looking for? Because this is what I think is at the heart of the matter. I think that a lot of people are looking at celebrities as if it vindicates Christianity in our culture. I really think that there are some people who are looking at Kanye West and other celebrities as if that vindicates or validates Christianity because now it's good in culture.

Now we can talk about it. No, this is the problem. We don't get this from our culture. We don't look to culture to be giving us answers to you know, whether Christianity is true or not now you we've seen this with countless number of celebrities that profess Christ and then you know recently there was and I don't remember his name the football player who went and did the thing with the Bible's read your Bible and then the homosexual group got on his case and he backed away.

And so people get upset because like another celebrity let us down. Well, we put our faith in Christ. Let me if you listen to my Andrew Rapaport's rap report the one that I just I just recorded it recently with Andrew Smith.

It's on church history, but we're going to talk about men like Martin Luther who were we always think of them as this bold character, but when put under pressure, he's like give me 24 hours to think about this.

Let me let me think if this is really what I want to do. And so we have to keep in mind that this is what you see some people doing. They we think of them as these strong men of the faith and yet they like us are human and you know, sometimes fall short.

So we have to keep that in mind. So I think that there's a lot here to unpack. All right. Let me start by saying I do believe from all intents and purposes from what I can see and I have a limited view.

It seems that Kanye West got saved now. I say seems for a very simple reason. I don't know the man and he hasn't been professing Christ long enough for me to see evidence see fruit. We see some immediate fruit.

I think that's really clear. I will admit. I only listened to one song of his new album. It was very good. I was actually surprised at first. It started sounding like it was going to be gospel like like Southern gospel type and then all of a sudden went into rap.

So maybe maybe Kanye West is creating his own genre of music gospel rap, you know, I don't know but it sure seemed that way. But here's the thing that I find shall we say bothersome is there were some folks who were cautious and the response to the cautious of Christian who is saying let's be careful people were having some victory all having some.

Well, I don't know how else to say it but they weren't being the best. Well, let me I want to share something to show you and I'm going to use this as an example. I want to I want to be able to show that there is something that we end up seeing with folks where they can behave themselves in such a way that that it's just it's just that I guess my concern with that is that we end up seeing people that treat someone a little bit unfairly.

I don't really see them treat people people. I'm just trying to think how best to word it but it's like basically it's the end of sentence that I think we end up seeing is people who start to forget a little bit of the real trail and I just just think that we end up seeing when you do that is you end up seeing people who they end up focusing on the wrong things.

Let me put up real quick. I don't know if there's a way I can let me stop sharing for a second. I'm on a new browser. So this may this may I'm having a little bit of trouble finding the just the the application.

So sorry about that. I'm trying so let's do this. I got an idea. I will put this over here. Sorry. This makes for great radio. I know or for podcast or video. There we go. So we'll do that. All right, so you can see the tweet.

This was a tweet that Justin Peters put up and I know there's a lot of people thinking they know why he's off Twitter and from what I've seen on those that are on Twitter. They're wrong. They don't have the right reason but I want you I want to go through this as an example because what we've seen is the reaction to this someone saying that my mic is garbled now.

He's saying it's fixed. All right, maybe that was on his side. So folks, let me know if I'm sounding okay to you. I will you know, we I do have a new setup here. And so we are trying with a new setup.

So all right, so Justin said this and I want you to look at what he said specifically. Now, this is Justin's concern was that Kanye had spoken at a church. He's actually sent it as Gimel Bryant who is not so good of a person of a person be following.

He's a heretic. Then you have that Joelstein invites him to his church. Now. This is what Justin said. I have purposely held off on the Kanye West thing though. I am grateful that he has clearly heard truth.

The genuineness of his conversion cannot be known until it is tested by persecution and temptation to compromise. This is not good though. Now, what's he saying is not good. What he's saying is not good is the fact that he's speaking or being invited to speak by to Joelstein.

So let me let me give you some of you guys some backdrop that you have to understand every time somebody looks like they can help people that have a platform get a bigger platform like Joelstein or anyone else.

They're going to see a Kanye West is someone that's going to benefit them so they can get more of a platform. And that's what I think Joelstein was doing. We've seen this with countless others. We've seen this with a lot of people who suddenly it's like, oh, let's give them our platform and then we'll get their platform and oh, this is going to be good.

And I think that what you end up seeing when people do that is they're looking to build themselves up. I can look at many examples of this that we've seen and I'm going to give you the one. I don't remember her name, but if you remember there was a woman who is going for Miss America.

She had in the Q &A. I think it was Perez Hilton that asked her something about abortion and she was very strong against abortion. She said that her Christian values would not allow her to support abortion and suddenly this woman though.

She didn't become Miss America was being invited all over the place to speak at churches to speak for Christianity. Now, she had been someone who grew up supposedly in a Christian home and professed to be a Christian for a long time and all these churches that were trying to use her and individuals that were using her to build a platform eventually had to back away.

Why? Because shortly after it was discovered that this same woman was also sending naked pictures of herself to her boyfriend. Not very good Christian behavior and all of a sudden they had to back away.

And so the caution that we have to have is with these people that we put up and give them a platform that without time to test and in this case with Kanye. I think all that Justin was saying is you got to give it some time.

He needs to be tested. This is no different than what he wrote in his book. Do not hinder them. It's the same thing. He's being consistent. He says we shouldn't baptize children until they've been tested to we see the fruit of Salvation.

The same is true with Kanye now. The issue is there are some people that were immediately immediately jumping on Justin saying that he was wrong because he is questioning Kanye Salvation. He was not and neither am I.

I don't question Kanye Salvation. I'm saying I can't affirm. I can't say he is saved. We've seen this lots of times with people that end up making a profession and then they walk away and they get this big platform and it benefits them.

And so having caution is okay. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have caution with people. But I am saying that we look at the fruit now look at what we've seen from Kanye now one thing that we've seen is at least we've has been reported is that he actually got saved several months ago and it just popped in the news recently because of his new album that he's been working on for a while.

So he it seems that this pastor Adam was discipling him and that is what he had said that they've been meeting. They've been discussing things. He definitely sounds like someone who's been discipled. He's got the lingo.

He he because I don't know if you realize Christians speak a lingo and he is understanding some some key elements of theology. It seems so he definitely seems like he's been discipled and that's good.

However, let me get out of the way where I have caution with this and where I have issue with this and it's not actually with Kanye West. My concern with this thing is actually with his pastor Adam Tyson and I'll tell you why.

Adam has been doing a good job up till now from what we can see discipling him but putting a man who's been saved for six months. On stage leading worship services speaking at churches speaking for Christianity.

If he was not a celebrity would we accept that with any other individual if someone just got saved six months ago, would you give them the pulpit at your church? I would hope not. I want to be consistent with it and say I don't want to do have that for Kanye either.

And someone is saying KT is saying that Kanye was already doing these things. I agree. He was and there is one difference with Kanye that I will admit Kanye had a platform Kanye was a big star and used to the limelight.

And so I think when you look at it that way there's going to be a thing there where he's not going to fall into the pride because he already had that there is a pride when you get suddenly a platform like that.

Kanye already had that. Okay, Pastor Adam has not and he's being thrust into that. I don't know how it's going to affect him yet. Now. Does that mean I think he's going to fall? No, I'm not saying that does that mean that I think that that he's not saved.

I'm not saying that be clear and what I'm saying. I'm concerned because anybody who suddenly gets a platform I'm concerned with and so I think that this pastor should have been telling him you shouldn't be going on some of these stages.

You shouldn't be going with Joel Steen or anyone like that. Now Joel Steen invited him granted, but he was with this with Jamal Bryant and that's bad news. So what you end up seeing is now, maybe let's give let's give the benefit of the doubt and say maybe Pastor Adam didn't know about that.

Kanye's doing his own thing and Pastor Adam may not be informed of everything. Well, I would think as his pastor being in the that unique position with someone that has this big platform the pastor if I was his pastor, I would say listen run things by me first.

Let's let's talk about it before you jump on a stage somewhere because you may be endorsing somebody you're going to regret someone that we shouldn't be endorsing. And so I think that he that Pastor Adam needs to help him here.

I think it's something where he needs to step in and do that. I don't expect now. One of the things that happened is with Justin is I saw on his feed people are going after him saying that he was saying that Kanye West is not saved.

He didn't actually say that he said we won't know for sure. We got to see some give some time. Some people were saying well, he's saying that that you know that Justin was in was was saying that Kanye had to have a certain level of had to have.

To be I'm trying to remember exactly how the wording was. Let me see if I could find it really quick. Like he had to be mature enough. That he would be the claim was that Justin was claiming that Kanye West had to be had to have the knowledge.

Let's see had it will happen. I'm trying to find the exact quote. But basically he that the claim was that he that that Justin was expecting far more maturity from a brand-new believer. And Justin wasn't doing that either because he's just saying this is not a good thing and it isn't it isn't a good thing when anybody's on stage with Joel Steen or these heretics.

So that's that's something that you have to see. I mean, there's there's an individual who I know personally who he gets like he's been on stage. I'll go on stage with anybody that would invite him and he sat down with with Justin and Justin said, well, this is why you should be more discerning on these and and he's like, why didn't know that this person believes that and the response was well, you need to have somebody encourage you to research that and so this very well-known person is said I need to do that.

He's now has someone that he's going to run things by before he goes and speak somewhere. And so my concern is not I don't question whether Kanye is a believer. I'm going to take and I personally from the fruit.

I've seen he's he's willing to to really kind of throw everything. I mean, he's he's challenging his wife with the way she dresses and she's blaming him and he's taking some responsibility for that and it seems he's changed.

He's radically changing everything. He wants nothing to do. It seems with his old way of of life. He's saw a quote where he said don't listen to my old music. So I think that we do see him turning from the that but being safe six months.

I would not want to see him leading worship services, even though he didn't preach Pastor Adam preached did a great message and what I may do is close out with that message. I think he did a great job, but should he a new believer be in a position of leading worship?

Should he be on stage with Christians being a spokesman for Christian? I mean, in a sense, we all are spokesman's a Christian, right? We should all be sharing the gospel, but he's got this big platform.

Now. Should he use it to share the gospel? Yes. Should he be on church that in church worship services speaking? I don't think so. That's for the worship. Now, if you say well, but that's a heretic church and they don't share the gospel anyway.

So maybe the first time that they are the gospel that could be a fair point. I'll give you that but I think that the reaction that we've seen has been overblown and people have taken so much emotion with this and wrapped so much into this.

So someone's busting and saying well, at least Benny Hinn repented right? No, see now there's a good difference. Let's let's take a look at that Benny Hinn compared to Kanye West. There's a huge difference between those two.

Okay, if you ask me, I mean, I'm looking at this and saying it sure looks like Kanye was saved. He looks like he genuinely repented. It does not look that way with Benny Hinn. It just doesn't. I mean, he doesn't show signs of fruit where Kanye West does.

Now, let me deal with one last thing before I bring some guys in that I came in and if you would like to join, if you want to challenge, if you disagree or even if you maybe agree, you can come on in to Apologetics Live.

Just go to apologeticslive .com. There's a link to join there on StreamYard. You can come on in and join us and challenge me if you agree, disagree, whichever. But when it comes to the Kanye West issue, I do not think that he's ready to be on platforms and I don't mean a physical platform.

He should not be at churches during worship services and speaking. I don't think he should be leading even the singing during a worship service. I think what he should be done, what should happen with him is he should sit in church and be discipled.

I think that is what he needs. He needs to sit under Pastor Adam for much longer than six months. And I think that he needs to be taught further. We need to see some signs of fruit now. Is he suffering persecution?

Oh, yeah. All the folks that he used to call friends are not liking this conversion. We're going to see how that ends up working out. Does he have an opportunity to do what others don't? Yes, he's going to have an opportunity to share the gospel with many people that you and I would never get an opportunity to share the gospel with.

While he still has those friendships, I hope he does. I hope we see many people who get saved. I hope that there's many people who end up getting saved because Kanye West got saved. I hope that they have many that repent and believe in a biblical gospel because of what God did in Kanye West's life.

That's my hope. Okay. Now, though I think he saved, though I think that he has a great opportunity to evangelize, do I think he should be a leader in Christianity or in a church? No, he should not be leading.

That's my concern. And I think that anybody else, if it was anybody else, we would not be having this discussion. Why? Because if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be put on to this platform. So let me bring Andrew in first.

All right. So Andrew, you came in. I don't know what your thoughts are on listening to my what I said, but it sounds like you are not on headphones and we're hearing echo.

No, I'm not on headphones. I'm looking around for a pair, but I don't have a pair. Okay.

All right. So what are your thoughts there?

Well, I've been following this quite recently. So I've seen Jeff Durbin was talking about it this morning on his apologetics channel. And Stephen Ben-Cars, who's another convert from New Age to Christianity in the last two or three years, maybe, or even one year, he's been commenting on it, too.

As you say, he shouldn't be leading. No, he shouldn't be. I don't think he should even be up on stage singing. I don't like rap. I'll just come out and say it. I don't call rap singing. But if you're going to compare him to someone, I think you're probably going to have to compare him to somebody like, say, Cliff Richard or Alice Cooper, for example, who've come from tough backgrounds, like Kanye obviously has.

As to whether he's being fruitful, well, I hope he gets a chance to get through to those people. As you said, he gets an extension to talk to people that I'm not going to get a chance to talk to about Christianity.

I think also I was reading there's an article, he doesn't even want his daughter to have makeup. I didn't completely read the article, but it's kind of looks like he's kind of doing an interesting thing.

Dave Mustaine from Megadeth did a similar thing when he quote-unquote converted. He stopped touring with certain bands. He wouldn't play certain songs. He wouldn't do the cover of Anarchy in the UK, this sort of stuff.

I guess that's where I'm coming from, and I'm going to start losing the logic after that.

So I'll stop. Okay, let me deal because there is someone on Facebook says, Andrew, aren't you setting an arbitrary standard? I trust your heart, Andrew, but I'm not tracking with you on this. Well, okay, maybe I'm not being clear enough.

So my issue with this is that I think that Kanye West may be a believer, and I'm not challenging that, not questioning that. What I am saying is, I don't think that we should be putting Kanye West up on a platform where he is going to be leading in worship services.

That's the issue. Let me bring, I'm going to bring Vincent in here. Hello. I'm going to just let me know if you want to come back in. Vincent, you had something you want to add to this.

I kind of just to bring on the point, maybe that you're making to a degree. Do you think that the people leading anything in the church services should they be somebody that's already been ordained by the church and not just somebody that, you know, like you said, is celebrity and yes, they can lead.

So, I mean, I guess what's the standard do you think should be before you would even allow somebody like that to come in? I mean, it may not just be about a time. I mean, some people learn faster than others.

So shouldn't there be some kind of demarcation that this person has been approved by the body of believers?

So let me clarify one thing. You are, for folks that don't know, you're Presbyterian. I would be Baptist and that does make a difference. No, no, I'm Baptist. Oh wait, you're just leaning that way. Okay.

Now, when you, I forgot. That's right. So no, but because I, when you said it should he be ordained that because I was thinking more Presbyterians do that.

Yeah, you know, the issue in Presbyterianism, it is.

Yeah, because I was talking to a Presbyterian earlier this week and they had said and I think they're right. It's easier for the Presbyterians because for Presbyterians, they would not allow him to speak period because of the fact that he's he hasn't been ordained.

Okay. Now, there should be is, you know, I don't know who it was that said because it just said Facebook user who said, you know, am I setting an arbitrary standard? We in a in a way? Yes, because the standard is really that we'd see is in scripture.

We do see in scripture standard for who would be qualified to be pastors and deacons, but even that's kind of arbitrary. I mean, we have that standard, but how do you, you know, how do you know someone none of us live that perfectly, but you're looking at the trajectory of someone's life and I think that I am I have standards.

Let's put this way. I have standards for guys that I do open-air evangelism with. I'm not going to put someone that's just gotten saved up on the box to share the gospel because that box sometimes gets people to get a big head and I don't want that.

So I don't do that. I won't give them that platform. That's that's just me. Okay, I'm not going to I don't want to do now Kanye already had a platform.

So there is some difference there. What you're talking about though is is you need how much fruit would you need to see though before you would say hey, this is this person's okay for doing this and this.

Yeah, seeing the Ecclesia, you know, the bottom church body.

I mean, I don't know how to know one of the yeah, and one of things different with this is he it seems God saved a while ago was being discipled and is now coming out with the album. So a lot of what we're seeing with these worship services where he's traveling around that's marketing for a new album.

Okay, I mean he this is the world he comes from he is like the master marketing guy, right? He's built up a multi-million dollar, you know business and he knows that marketing he's got that and now that also could be a concern if you're doing it for just for marketing.

I don't think he is I think that what you have is you you end up looking at someone who is was silent for a while. There was some rumors. I think that you know, he had gotten saved but I don't know that we know we knew really until that he came out and when he came out with this it came out big and he's he's been on your talk shows and things like that, which I would expect because he's got an album out.

He's wants to use that platform that he has to share the gospel which he's doing by the way. I mean, I got to tell you I saw an interview with him and there were some people who get opportunities to get onto the major media and profess the gospel and they don't I mean they just completely with.

It and he did include pastors. My big time. Yes.

And so, you know what you end up seeing is the thing that the thing you end up seeing here is that you have people who don't share the gospel as clearly as Kanye West is doing when he gets that opportunity.

Okay. He is clearly, you know, from all intents and purposes clearly communicating the gospel message when he's given that opportunity. And I think that what you're you end up seeing is some people who want to either gravitate toward him to build their own platform or you have people who want to want to try to build off him or maybe oh now that he's a believer.

We could be friendly with them and but you know, he is a babe in Christ. Oh, here's someone saying what I'm trying to say good Eric. He says just like any new convert popular or otherwise. We have to approach their conversion with cautious optimism.

That's true. I think even more so when they when they have a platform we have to be more cautious not because I'm questioning his salvation and not you know, do I see good signs? Yeah, I do. But we got to give it some time.

That's I think that's all that that Justin was saying. That's all that you know, I haven't weighed in until some people start to being very vicious with Justin and all right.

So yes, my real question then on the whole thing you say give it time. I guess people are saying well how much time and what should we be looking for? I guess that's they want a more definitive, you know, what should what at what point is it?

Okay for this person to do these things.

Well, I think I think Justin Justin was. You know, Justin said, you know, I think he put up a really good thing. I'm just saying he needs to be tested by persecution and temptation to compromise. I mean, there's two ways of testing now.

So far we've we've seen some. So and and he's been passing. I think he's got some bigger ones ahead.

I think I wife and oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see how you know, I think that his and I have to admit I do not know the Kardashians. I forget where I was and one of the Kardashians. I don't know if it was Kim or someone else was was literally sitting at a table right behind me and someone at my table eventually figured it out and I'm like, who's that they had to explain to me so because you all know that I'm very pop culture literate right or not.

I mean, I didn't know what Kanye West even looked like before give this but I think that what we got to do is see what's going to happen. Give him enough time and let's see the fruit. I so far we've seen good fruit, but I think he's in for some rough times ahead.

I think we're going to see him being challenged. I believe.

What are your thoughts? Absolutely. I mean, that's the one thing we're guaranteed, right? Yeah, much. I mean, you got to those who endured it in there. They'll be saved though. Yeah, I just was speaking on a far because I think that's what a lot of people are saying.

Well, you got you're saying this but what do I guess people want a more definitive guide to. Here's the thing that I mean just think about this.

What's the definitive point when you would say that someone can can get up to a pulpit and preach. It's not a definitive thing. There's this is not see there's a difference. It's not like, you know, you have to get a certain score in your SATs.

You know, it's like you take a test and check it all off. You this is something that's borne out over time for consistency sake would you the only way to know is is really the one that really would I think the one I would like to see is Pastor Adam Tyson to be under his his, you know to for Kanye to be under his in his church being discipled by him for a while and let me give it give a for instance.

I didn't should I name names? I think I will because this is a good thing. Many people know who many people who follow this show may know the name Lindsay Davis. Now, she was someone who came out of Bethel suddenly got a big platform and you know, very very sweet girl seems very young girl and seems to have a lot more knowledge of Scripture than you think it's someone that got saved as as shortly as she did but because she came out of Bethel there were a lot of people that were having her on their podcasts and radio shows and everyone wants to talk to her and in their films everyone wanted her.