Kayne West, Democrat's war on Christianity, Flat Earth and Open Q&A

Apologetics Live

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All righty, we are live, Apologex, live, glad you are with us.

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We're here to answer your apologetic questions, anything that you may have. Maybe you were challenged with something, you didn't have an answer for it.

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Maybe you just want to challenge me. Well, that's possible too. We're going to be trying to get some folks in here to give some challenges, maybe not on tonight's show, although tonight we may end up getting some heat.

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And actually I was supposed to open, I forgot, I was going to open with this. Let's play the clip I was supposed to open with.

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He says I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. If you watched last week's show, that is, well, he was going by the name of Loki.

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But yeah, he in the chat while he was in the private chat was threatening that I should be killed.

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And so once he did that, I quickly sent that information off to the security officer and they went to check that out.

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And they nicely sent me some information and said, can I get him to confirm that this was actually him?

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And so I needed to get him recorded and actually admitting that, yes, he did, in fact, threaten my life.

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And then I needed to confirm it was him. So I did. I showed him a quick picture and sure enough, he confirmed it was him.

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So he's now being watched. And so, yeah, that was a mistake on his part.

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So with that, we wanted to open the show. That was from last week.

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We just wanted to wrap that up from last week. Folks, if you want to join here and either can want to participate or participate, ask questions, challenges, whatever with the show, we're going to start off.

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We're going to start with talking about. Kanye West, has it has it been tiresome yet?

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We're going to talk about that. If we can get past that. I don't know if we can. The Democrats have now waged war on Christianity.

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We'll talk about that as well. And then if there's time, we'll talk flat earth. We'll also be open to your questions.

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So you could just go to Apologetics Live. So we're here Thursday nights, 8 to 10

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Eastern Time. If you're listening on podcast and say, how do I join? How do I actually participate?

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Well, you can always go to ApologeticsLive .com. The links, the time, everything's there. You can go just that one place, watch it all.

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So that is where you go. Just go to ApologeticsLive .com.

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You can watch right there. We have the YouTube channel that you'll be able to watch there. You'd be able to, we are doing this both on Facebook, on Twitter, on YouTube, basically wherever we can.

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We're putting this out here for you. So we hope that you enjoy this. Now, with this,

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I do want to talk about Kanye West and some things that I want to discuss because before I bring,

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I see that Andrew's already here, or at least I can see his forehead. You guys can't. He's got the camera like all the way up here, you know,

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I guess. But there we go. He just moved it down. That was my subtle way of letting him know. Someone says they want to call in.

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That's from Facebook. Just go to ApologeticsLive .com and you can get in from there.

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So here's the thing, folks. I'm going to give you some, basically my thoughts before I bring other people in to talk about this whole issue of Kanye, because I've been a little bit bothered by the reaction

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I have seen from professing Christians toward other professing

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Christians. So because of that, I really would like to have this something that we can maybe deal with reasonably.

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And so, all right, let's just deal with the issue.

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So Kanye West, for the folks who don't know, was a,

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I guess, a rap artist. I didn't follow him much. I don't follow music. So I should put that as a preface.

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I don't follow music. And maybe that makes me a little bit unbiased because I'm not as,

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I'm not as tainted with being enamored with his celebrity status, because I do think that's going to play into some of this discussion.

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I don't think that Kanye is someone that prior to a year ago, any

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Christian, from what I've gathered, maybe even from what he would say, should have been listening to.

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He seems to be implying that he won't be doing the music that he used to do. And so I think that what we have to do with this is we need to, oh,

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Marlon is watching. So for Marlon, I've meant to mention this. I got this new mug,

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Encouraging the Culture with Christian Truth by Gospel Truth.

06:37

If you don't check out the Gospel Truth YouTube channel, they have some pretty good debates going.

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I've already heard about how well Matt Slick did a debate with an atheist. It's already been recorded.

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So I got to hear about it already. So I think I'm looking very forward to that one,

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Marlon. You can always come in and talk if you want. So I know that everybody's talking about Kanye West.

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And though maybe we're sick of hearing about him, the issue seems to be that about six to nine months ago, from what

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I can gather, he was in touch with a pastor. And this pastor, whose name is

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Adam Tyson, he's a master's seminary grad, and that's the seminary associated with John MacArthur.

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And what we end up seeing is that he seems, from all intents and purposes, it seems that he got radically saved, which is a very, very good thing.

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Why do I say that? Because there's some people who think, no, we shouldn't say he's saved. Well, whenever someone makes a profession of faith, truth and time go hand in hand.

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So we're going to want to give enough time to see if it's true. But for right now, love believes all things, and I'm going to believe that he's saved.

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I'm going to believe, from what I can gather, that he is someone who is genuinely saved.

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And I believe that he may be. I don't see any evidence to say otherwise.

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Now, I say that, but I know that there's been a lot of people who are challenging this. And I think some of the challenges are coming up because of his past.

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Or the other thing, a reason a lot of people are questioning, is we have seen so many quote unquote celebrities that have let us down, supposedly.

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And I challenge you to say, when they've let you down, what were you looking for? Because this is what I think is at the heart of the matter.

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I think that a lot of people are looking at celebrities as if it vindicates

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Christianity in our culture. I really think that there are some people who are looking at Kanye West and other celebrities as if that vindicates or validates

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Christianity. Because now it's good in culture. Now we can talk about it. No.

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This is the problem. We don't get this from our culture. We don't look to culture to be giving us answers to whether Christianity is true or not.

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Now, we've seen this with countless number of celebrities that profess

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Christ. And then recently there was, and I don't remember his name, the football player who went and did the thing with the

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Bibles, read your Bible, and then the homosexual group got on his case and he backed away.

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And so people get upset because it's like, oh, another celebrity let us down.

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Well, we put our faith in Christ. If you listen to my Andrew Rapaport's rap report, the one that I just recorded it recently with Andrew Smith, it's on Church History, but we're going to talk about men like Martin Luther who were, we always think of them as this bold character.

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But when put under pressure, he's like, give me 24 hours to think about this.

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Let me think if this is really what I want to do. And so we have to keep in mind that this is what you see some people doing.

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We think of them as these strong men of the faith, and yet they, like us, are human and sometimes fall short.

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So we have to keep that in mind. So I think that there's a lot here to unpack.

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All right. Let me start by saying I do believe, from all intents and purposes, from what

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I can see, and I have a limited view, it seems that Kanye West got saved.

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Now, I say seems for a very simple reason. I don't know the man, and he hasn't been professing

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Christ long enough for me to see evidence, see fruit. We see some immediate fruit. I think that's really clear.

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I will admit I only listened to one song of his new album. It was very good.

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I was actually surprised. At first it started sounding like it was going to be gospel, like Southern gospel type.

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And then all of a sudden went into rap. So maybe, maybe Kanye West is creating his own genre of music, gospel rap.

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I don't know. But it sure seemed that way. But here's the thing that I find, shall we say, bothersome, is there were some folks who were cautious, and the response to the cautious, the

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Christian who is saying, let's be careful, people were having some victory all, having some, well,

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I don't know how else to say it, but they weren't being the best well -behaved. Let me,

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I want to share something to show you, and I'm going to use this as an example.

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I want to, I want to be able to show that there is something that we end up seeing with folks where they can behave themselves in such a way that it's just,

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I guess my concern with it is that we end up seeing people that treat someone a little bit unfairly, treat people,

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I'm just trying to think how best to word it, but it's like basically we end up seeing, I think we end up seeing these people who start to get a little bit of victory all, and I just, just think that we end up seeing when you do that is you end up seeing people who, they end up focusing on the wrong things.

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Let me put up real quick, I don't know if there's a way I can, let me stop sharing for a second. I'm on a new browser, so this may, this may,

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I'm having a little bit of trouble finding just the application, so sorry about that. I'm trying, so let's do this.

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I got an idea. I will put this over here, sorry, this makes for great radio,

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I know, or for a podcast or video, there we go. So we'll do that. All right, so, so you can see the tweet.

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This was a tweet that Justin Peters put up, and I know there's a lot of people thinking, they know why he's off Twitter, and from what

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I've seen on those that are on Twitter, they're wrong, they don't have the right reason, but I want to go through this as an example, because what we've seen is the reaction to this.

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Someone's saying that my mic is garbled. Now he's saying it's fixed. All right, maybe that was on his side.

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So folks, let me know if I'm sounding okay to you. I will, you know,

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I do have a new setup here, and so we are trying with a new setup.

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So, all right, so Justin said this, and I want you to look at what he said specifically.

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Now, this is, Justin's concern was that Kanye had spoken at a church.

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He's actually sent it to Gimel Bryant, who is not so good of a person, of a person to be following, he's a heretic.

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Then you have that Joel Stein invites him to his church. Now, this is what Justin said,

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I've purposely held off on the Kanye West thing, though I am grateful that he has clearly heard truth.

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The genuineness of his conversion cannot be known until it is tested by persecution and temptation to compromise.

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This is not good, though. Now, what's he saying is not good? What he's saying is not good is the fact that he's speaking or being invited to speak by to Joel Stein.

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Let me give some of you guys some backdrop that you have to understand. Every time somebody looks like they can help people that have a platform get a bigger platform like Joel Stein or anyone else, they're going to see a

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Kanye West as someone that's going to benefit them so they can get more of a platform.

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And that's what I think Joel Stein was doing. We've seen this with countless others. We've seen this with a lot of people who suddenly it's like, oh, let's give them our platform and then we'll get their platform.

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And oh, this is going to be good. And I think that what you end up seeing when people do that is they're looking to build themselves up.

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I can look at many examples of this that we've seen, and I'm going to give you the one.

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I don't remember her name, but if you remember, there was a woman who is the miss going for Miss America.

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She had in the Q &A, I think it was

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Perez Hilton that asked her something about abortion.

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And she was very strong against abortion. She said her Christian values would not allow her to support abortion.

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And suddenly this woman, though she didn't become Miss America, was being invited all over the place to speak at churches, to speak for Christianity.

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Now, she had been someone who grew up supposedly in a Christian home and professed to be a

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Christian for a long time. And all these churches that were trying to use her and individuals that were using her to build a platform eventually had to back away.

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Why? Because shortly after it was discovered that this same woman was also sending naked pictures of herself to her boyfriend.

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Not very good Christian behavior. And all of a sudden they had to back away. And so the caution that we have to have is with these people that we put up and give them a platform that without time to test.

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And in this case with Kanye, I think all that Justin was saying is you got to give it some time.

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He needs to be tested. This is no different than what he wrote in his book. Do not hinder them.

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It's the same thing. He's being consistent. He says we shouldn't baptize children until they've been tested.

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Do we see the fruit of salvation? The same is true with Kanye. Now, the issue is there are some people that were immediately, immediately jumping on Justin saying that he was wrong because he is questioning

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Kanye's salvation. He was not and neither am I. I don't question Kanye's salvation.

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I'm saying I can't affirm. I can't say he is saved. We've seen this lots of times with people that end up making a profession and then they walk away.

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They get this big platform and it benefits them. And so having caution is okay.

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I'm not saying that we shouldn't have caution with people, but I am saying that we look at the fruit.

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Now, look at what we've seen from Kanye. Now, one thing that we've seen is, at least has been reported, is that he actually got saved several months ago and it just popped in the news recently because of his new album that he's been working on for a while.

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So it seems that this Pastor Adam was discipling him and that is what he had said that they've been meeting, they've been discussing things.

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He definitely sounds like someone who's been discipled. He's got the lingo because I don't know if you realize

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Christians speak a lingo and he is understanding some key elements of theology, it seems.

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So he definitely seems like he's been discipled and that's good. However, let me get out of the way where I have caution with this and where I have issue with this and it's not actually with Kanye West.

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My concern with this thing is actually with his Pastor Adam Tyson and I'll tell you why.

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Adam has been doing a good job up till now, from what we can see, discipling him.

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But putting a man who's been saved for six months on stage, leading worship services, speaking at churches, speaking for Christianity.

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If he was not a celebrity, would we accept that with any other individual?

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If someone just got saved six months ago, would you give them the pulpit at your church?

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I would hope not. I want to be consistent with him and say, I don't want to have that for Kanye either.

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And someone is saying, KT is saying that Kanye was already doing these things. I agree.

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He was. And there is one difference with Kanye that I will admit. Kanye had a platform.

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Kanye was a big star and used to the limelight.

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And so I think when you look at it that way, there's going to be a thing there where he's not going to fall into the pride because he already had that.

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There is a pride when you get suddenly a platform like that. Kanye already had that. Pastor Adam has not.

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And he's being thrust into that. I don't know how it's going to affect him yet. Now, does that mean I think he's going to fall?

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No, I'm not saying that. Does that mean that I think that he's not saved? I'm not saying that.

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Be clear on what I'm saying. I'm concerned because anybody who suddenly gets a platform, I'm concerned with.

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And so I think that this pastor should have been telling him, you shouldn't be going on some of these stages.

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You shouldn't be going with Joel Steen or anyone like that. Now, Joel Steen invited him, granted. But he was with this with Jamal Bryant, and that's bad news.

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So what you end up seeing is now maybe let's give the benefit of the doubt and say maybe

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Pastor Adam didn't know about that. Kanye is doing his own thing. And Pastor Adam may not be informed of everything.

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Well, I would think as his pastor being in that unique position with someone that has this big platform, the pastor, if I was his pastor,

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I would say, listen, run things by me first. Let's talk about it before you jump on a stage somewhere. Because you may be endorsing somebody you're going to regret, someone that we shouldn't be endorsing.

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And so I think that Pastor Adam needs to help him here.

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I think it's something where he needs to step in and do that. I don't expect. Now, one of the things that happened is with Justin is

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I saw on his feed, people were going after him, saying that he was saying that Kanye West is not saved.

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He didn't actually say that. He said, we won't know for sure. We got to see some, give some time.

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Some people were saying, well, he's saying that Justin was saying that Kanye had to have a certain level of, had to have, to be,

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I'm trying to remember exactly how the wording was. Let me see if I could find it really quick. Like he had to be mature enough.

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That he, the claim was that Justin was claiming that Kanye West had to be, had to have the knowledge.

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Let's see. I'm trying to find the exact quote, but basically that the claim was that he, that Justin was expecting far more maturity from a brand new believer.

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And Justin wasn't doing that either. Because he's just saying, this is not a good thing.

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And it isn't, it isn't a good thing when anybody's on stage with Joel Steen or these heretics. So that's, that's something that you have to see.

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I mean, there's, there's an individual who I know personally, who he gets, he's been on stage. He'll go on stage with anybody that would invite him.

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And he sat down with, with Justin and Justin said, well, this is why you should be more discerning on these.

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And he's like, well, I didn't know that this person believes that. And the response was, well, you need to have somebody encourage you to, to, to research that.

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And so this very well -known person is, said, I need to do that. He's now has someone that he's going to run things by before he, he goes and speaks somewhere.

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And so my concern is not, I don't question whether Kanye is a believer.

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I'm going to take an, I personally from the fruit I've seen, he's, he's willing to, to really kind of throw everything.

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I mean, he's, he's challenging his wife with the way she dresses and she's blaming him and he's taken some responsibility for that.

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And it seems he's changed. He's radically changing everything. He wants nothing to do. It seems with his old way of, of life.

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He saw a quote where he said, don't listen to my old music. So I think that we, we do see him turning from the, that, but being saved six months,

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I would not want to see him leading worship services, even though he didn't preach. Pastor Adam preached, did a great message.

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And what I may do is close out with that message. I think he did a great job, but should he, a new believer be in a position of leading worship?

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Should he be on stage with Christians being a spokesman for Christianity?

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I mean, in a sense, we all are spokesmen of Christianity, right? We should all be sharing the gospel, but he's got this big platform.

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Now, should he use it to share the gospel? Yes. Should he be on church that in church worship services speaking?

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I don't think so. That's for the worship. Now, if you say, well, but that's a heretic church and they don't share the gospel anyway.

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So it may be the first time that they heard the gospel. That could be a fair point. I'll give you that.

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But I think that the reaction that we've seen has been over blown. And people have taken so much emotion with this and wrapped so much into this.

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Someone's busting and saying, well, at least Benny Hinn repented, right? No. See, now there's a good difference.

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Let's take a look at that. Benny Hinn compared to Kanye West.

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There's a huge difference between those two. Okay. If you asked me,

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I mean, I'm looking at this and saying it sure looks like Kanye was saved. He looks like he genuinely repented.

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It does not look that way with Benny Hinn. It just doesn't.

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I mean, he doesn't show signs of fruit where Kanye West does.

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Now, let me deal with one last thing before I bring some guys in that I came in. And if you would like to join, if you want to challenge, if you disagree, or even if you maybe agree, you can come on in to Apologetics Live.

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Just go to apologeticslive .com. There's a link to join there on StreamYard. You can come on in and join us and challenge me if you agree, disagree, whichever.

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But when it comes to the Kanye West issue, I do not think that he's ready to be on platforms.

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And I don't mean a physical platform. He should not be at churches during worship services and speaking.

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I don't think he should be leading even the singing during a worship service. I think what he should be done, what should happen with him is he should sit in church and be discipled.

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I think that is what he needs. He needs to sit under Pastor Adam for much longer than six months.

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And I think that he needs to be taught further. We need to see some signs of fruit.

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Now, is he suffering persecution? Oh, yeah. All the folks that he used to call friends are not liking this conversion.

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We're going to see how that ends up working out. Does he have an opportunity to do what others don't?

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Yes. He's going to have an opportunity to share the gospel with many people that you and I would never get an opportunity to share the gospel with.

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While he still has those friendships, I hope he does. I hope we see many people who get saved.

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I hope that there's many people who end up getting saved because Kanye West got saved.

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I hope that they have many that repent and believe in a biblical gospel because of what

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God did in Kanye West's life. That's my hope. Okay. Now, though I think he's saved, though I think that he has a great opportunity to evangelize, do

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I think he should be a leader in Christianity or in a church? No.

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He should not be leading. That's my concern. And I think that anybody else, if it was anybody else, we would not be having this discussion.

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Why? Because if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be put onto this platform. So let me bring

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Andrew in first. All right. So, Andrew, you came in. I don't know what your thoughts are on listening to what

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I said, but it sounds like you are not on headphones and we're hearing echo. No, I'm not on headphones.

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I'm looking around for a pair, but I don't have a pair. Okay. All right.

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So what are your thoughts there? Well, I've been following this quite recently.

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So I've seen Jeff Durbin was talking about it this morning on his apologetics channel.

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And Stephen Ben -Cars, who's another convert from New Age to Christianity in the last two or three years, maybe, or even one year.

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He's been commenting on it too. As you say, he shouldn't be leading.

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No, he shouldn't be. I don't think he should even be up on stage singing. I don't like rap.

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I'll just come out and say it. I don't call rap singing. But if you're going to compare him to someone,

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I think you're probably going to have to compare him to somebody like, say, Cliff Richard or Alice Cooper, for example, who've come from tough backgrounds like Kanye obviously has.

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As to whether he's being fruitful. Well, I hope he gets a chance to get through to those people.

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As you said, he gets an extension to talk to people that I'm not going to get a chance to talk to about Christianity.

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I think also I was reading this article. He doesn't even want his daughter to have makeup.

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I didn't completely read the article, but it's kind of looks like he's kind of doing an interesting thing.

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Dave Mustaine from Megadeth did a similar thing when he, quote, unquote, converted.

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He stopped touring with certain bands. He wouldn't play certain songs.

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He wouldn't do the cover of Anarchy in the UK. This sort of stuff.

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Um, I guess that's where I'm coming from, and I'm going to start losing the logic after that, so I'll stop.

32:14

OK, well, let me let me deal because there is someone on Facebook says, Andrew, aren't you setting an arbitrary standard?

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I trust your heart, Andrew, but I'm not tracking with you on this. Well, OK, let me maybe

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I'm not being clear enough. So my issue with this is that I think that Kanye West may be a believer.

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And I'm not challenging that, not questioning that. What I am saying is I don't think that we should be putting

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Kanye West up on a platform where he is going to be leading in worship services.

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That's the issue. Let me bring I'm going to bring Vincent in here.

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Hello. I'm going to just let me know if you want to come back in.

33:06

Vincent Hudson, you want to add to this? I kind of just to bring on the point maybe that you're making to a degree.

33:15

Do you think that the people leading anything in the church services, should they be somebody that's already been ordained by the church and not just somebody that, you know, like you said, is celebrity?

33:32

And yes, they can lead. So, I mean, I guess what's the standard do you think should be before you would even allow somebody like that to come in?

33:41

I mean, it may not just be about a time. I mean, some people learn faster than others. So so shouldn't there be some kind of demarcation that this person has been approved by the.

33:51

Yeah. So let me clarify one thing. You are for folks that don't know you're

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Presbyterian. I would be Baptist. And that does make a difference. Oh, wait, you're just leaning that way.

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Okay. Now, when you I forgot. That's right. So no, but because I when you said it should be ordained that because I was thinking more

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Presbyterians do that. You know, the issue in Presbyterianism.

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It is. Yeah, because I was talking to a Presbyterian earlier this week, and they had said, and I think they're right.

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It's easier for the Presbyterians because for Presbyterians, they would not allow him to speak period because of the fact that he's he hasn't been ordained.

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Okay, now. There should be is, you know, I don't know who it was that said, because it just said who said, you know, am

34:48

I setting an arbitrary standard in a way? Yes, because the standard is really that we'd see is in scripture.

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We do see in scripture standard for who would be qualified to be pastors and deacons. But even that's kind of arbitrary.

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I mean, we have that standard. But how do you how do you know someone? None of us live that perfectly.

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But you're looking at the trajectory of someone's life. And I think that I am

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I have standards. Let's put it this way. I have standards for guys that I do open air evangelism with.

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I'm not going to put someone that's just gotten saved up on the box to share the gospel. Because that box sometimes gets people to get a big head.

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And I don't want that. So I don't do that. I won't give them that platform.

35:37

That's just me. Okay. I'm not gonna. I don't want to do now.

35:44

Kanye already had a platform. So there is some difference there. What you're talking about, though, is you need how much fruit would you need to see, though, before you would say, hey, this is this person's okay for doing this and this.

35:59

Yeah. Seeing the Ecclesia, you know, the church body. I mean, I don't know how. Now, one of the yeah.

36:05

And one of the things different with this is he, it seems, got saved a while ago, was being discipled and is now coming out with the album.

36:15

So a lot of what we're seeing with these worship services where he's traveling around, that's marketing for a new album.

36:22

Okay. I mean, this is the world he comes from. He is like the master marketing guy.

36:27

Right. He's built up a multimillion dollar business, and he knows that marketing.

36:37

He's got that. And now that also could be a concern if you're doing it for just for marketing.

36:43

I don't think he is. I think, though, what you have is you end up looking at someone who is was silent for a while.

36:53

There was some rumors, I think, that, you know, he had gotten saved.

36:59

But I don't know that we know. We knew really until he came out. And when he came out with this, it came out big.

37:07

And he's been on talk shows and things like that, which I would expect because he's got an album out.

37:14

He wants to use that platform that he has to share the gospel, which he's doing, by the way.

37:20

I mean, I got to tell you, I saw an interview with him. And there were some people who get opportunities to get onto the major media and profess the gospel.

37:31

And they don't. I mean, they just completely with it. And he did. That includes pastors, by the way.

37:38

Oh, big time. Yes. And so, you know, what you end up seeing is the thing that the thing you end up seeing here is that you have people who don't share the gospel as clearly as Kanye West is doing when he gets that opportunity.

38:02

Okay. He is clearly, you know, from all intents and purposes, clearly communicating the gospel message when he's given that opportunity.

38:15

And I think that what you end up seeing is some people who want to either gravitate toward him to build their own platform, or you have people who want to want to try to build off him or maybe, oh, now that he's a believer, we could be friendly with him.

38:39

But, you know, he is a babe in Christ. Oh, here's someone saying what

38:44

I'm trying to say. Good, Eric. He says, just like any new convert, popular or otherwise, we have to approach their conversion with cautious optimism.

38:54

That's true. I think even more so when they have a platform, we have to be more cautious, not because I'm questioning his salvation and not, you know, do

39:04

I see good signs? Yeah, I do. But we got to give it some time.

39:10

I think that's all that Justin was saying. That's all that, you know, I haven't weighed in until some people start being very vicious with Justin.

39:19

And that's not right. So I guess my real question then on the whole thing, you say give it time. I guess people are saying, well, how much time and what should we be looking for?

39:28

I guess that's they want a more definitive, you know, what should, at what point is it okay for this person to do these things?

39:37

Well, I think, I think Justin, Justin was, you know, Justin said, you know, I think he put up a really good thing.

39:43

I'm just saying he needs to be tested by persecution and temptation to compromise. I mean, there's two ways of testing.

39:49

Now, so far we've seen some tests and he's been passing.

39:55

I think he's got some bigger ones ahead. I think. Oh, yeah.

40:01

Yeah. I'm waiting to see how, you know, I think that his, and I have to admit,

40:06

I do not know the Kardashians. I forget where I was. And one of the

40:13

Kardashians, I don't know if it was Kim or someone else was, was literally sitting at a table right behind me.

40:20

And someone at my table eventually figured it out. And I'm like, who's that? They had to explain to me.

40:28

So, because you all know that I'm very pop culture literate, right? Or not. I mean,

40:34

I didn't know what Kanye West even looked like before any of this. But I think that what we got to do is see what's going to happen.

40:42

Give him enough time and let's see the fruit. So far, we've seen good fruit, but I think he's in for some rough times ahead.

40:50

I think we're going to see him being challenged. I believe. What are your thoughts?

40:57

Absolutely. I mean, that's the one thing we're guaranteed, right? Yeah, pretty much.

41:02

I mean, it's those who endure to the end that will be saved.

41:10

Yeah, I just was speaking on a far because I think that's what a lot of people are saying. Well, you're saying this, but I guess people want a more definitive guide.

41:21

Here's the thing. I mean, just think about this. What's the definitive point when you would say that someone can get up to a pulpit and preach?

41:31

It's not a definitive thing. This is not. See, there's a difference. It's not like you have to get a certain score in your

41:37

SATs. It's not like you take a test and check it all off. This is something that's borne out over time for consistency's sake.

41:46

The only way to know is really the one that really would.

41:52

I think the one I would like to see is Pastor Adam Tyson to be under his for Kanye to be in his church, being discipled by him for a while.

42:03

Let me give a for instance. I didn't. Should I name names? I think I will because this is a good thing.

42:10

Many people know who many people who follow this show may know the name

42:15

Lindsay Davis. Now, she was someone who came out of Bethel, suddenly got a big platform and very, very sweet girl, seems very young girl and seems to have a lot more knowledge of scripture than you'd think.

42:31

It's someone that got saved as shortly as she did. But because she came out of Bethel, there were a lot of people that were having her on their podcasts and radio shows and everyone wants to talk to her and in their films, everyone wanted her.

42:46

Justin and I had an opportunity to talk on the phone with her and I sure hope she's not going to hate me for sharing this.

42:55

But I, you know, it was very interesting because we had a very good conversation. We're really blessed.

43:01

Both Justin and I are very impressed with this young lady and I gave her advice that I don't think anyone else might have given.

43:10

I mean, there may be some wise people that would do this, but I had a different view. I said, listen, I want to warn you.

43:18

I want to encourage you not to do. You've done a bunch of things. You've committed to doing some shows and podcasts and things like that.

43:26

People were asking if I was going to have her on my podcast and I said, not for a year. And I told her that.

43:32

I said, I wouldn't have you on my podcast for at least a year. I want to see how God works in your life.

43:37

See how you behave. I want to see consistency. I want to see maturity. I want to give it time.

43:43

So I said an arbitrary thing. For me, I said it for one year. That's what I told her. I said, but I'd encourage you not to do anything else than what you've already committed to.

43:54

To not do that stuff. Just spend the time in the word of God. I said, here's the thing. You are going to be given a platform.

44:03

That platform will also be a distraction from what got you to be so grounded in the scriptures.

44:10

And if you are so focused on the platform, you're going to lose what got you on that solid footing.

44:21

And I think she took that to heart. Now, I think it's an interesting thing because you can see her mother, who because of her, was also given a platform and was doing a lot to talk to folks.

44:33

And what ended up happening, her mother went right back into the charismatic nonsense and all the word of faith stuff.

44:41

And now she is pulling people away. So that becomes a problem.

44:48

Now, I haven't followed her mother to see if she's repented of that. But what do you see with Lindsay? She kind of tapered down and she really is on a very good trajectory.

44:58

She's getting discipled. She's actually now, I believe, engaged. And so you end up seeing that I'm being consistent with what

45:09

I would say to Kanye West or anybody else. I think that there is a temptation that people have when given a platform and that it can affect people's pride.

45:21

It can affect their spiritual maturity. They can end up spending so much time traveling from this place to this place.

45:27

I got to speak here. I got to speak there. I got to do this. I got to do that. And Kanye spent a lot of time in the word of God.

45:33

That's what got him to be so solid, being discipled. And I know he's going to be doing a lot of traveling right now because of the tour and things like that.

45:44

But I want to see him plugged into a good local church. It seems Pastor Adam would be a good one to do.

45:51

And that's what I would like to see. So is it arbitrary? Yeah, it sort of is.

45:56

But isn't when you sit there and vote, if your church, depending how you do, if your church votes for people to be pastors and deacons, isn't that arbitrary?

46:07

Is it not? I mean, the reality is that we're always going to be in this position where it is arbitrary because there isn't a clearly objective thing that we can say, okay,

46:20

God says when, you know, one year after getting saved, you can be on stage.

46:27

And for people that there's someone that's saying that Justin was being arbitrary, you know, for folks who don't know his background,

46:33

Justin got saved after he was in ministry. Okay. Justin actually was traveling and speaking before he got saved.

46:44

And when he got saved, he canceled his entire calendar for a year or so.

46:51

He just said, I can't, I need to sit in the teaching of God's word. I need, you know, even though he had a seminary degree, he was not saved.

47:01

And so he cleared his calendar for a year. Now he's saying that Kanye should do something similar.

47:10

How's that being not arbitrary? You know, he's not saying that he's not saved.

47:16

He's not saying what he's saying is time. How much time?

47:22

We don't know because everybody's going to be different. Some people, it seems like Kanye is going to be one.

47:29

I think we're going to have a better opportunity to see his trajectory. Why? Because what you're going to see with Kanye, I think, is you're going to see someone who is going to be tested far quicker than most new believers because he's, he was, he had kind of everything that you could ask for in life in a material way.

47:54

And he may end up having to give all that up. And it's going to be in a public eye. Yeah.

48:02

I would like to order, you know, calling the church to,

48:09

I don't know why I got an echo, but to, you know, if somebody should preach or not, I wouldn't necessarily call it arbitrary.

48:17

Other than I would say, if you want to say it's arbitrary, but it's, I would say that's, you know, spirit led decision making kind of a thing.

48:26

I don't, I don't know about the arbitrary language, maybe, you know, when the church gathers together to meet on this,

48:34

I still think that spirit, you know, leading the congregation in that direction. Well, isn't it, isn't it arbitrary to criticize

48:41

Justin for saying that he wants to give time? Yeah, absolutely. I don't think that's right to criticize Justin for any reason like that.

48:49

I mean, you know, it's, the thing is, you have to have a consistent argument.

48:54

I think, I think Justin's being consistent. Justin is saying, hey, he took a year off.

49:00

I'm, I think I'm being consistent. I said, I'm saying I didn't, you know, when I, when I counsel people,

49:06

I, you know, I say, hey, take a year off. I would, I would like him to, to, he announced it.

49:13

Let's give him a year and let's see how things go. Now I know he wants, he's, now there is something that I'm going to say.

49:20

I mean, he has an opportunity because of the platform he previously had to be able to go and reach people for the gospel.

49:29

I agree with that, but, and he should do that, but that doesn't mean he should be leading worship services on a

49:38

Sunday. You see, that's the difference. He's leading a worship service. He's on stage singing, leading a choir, if you want to call it that, but he's leading.

49:48

Then he's going to churches and speaking during a worship service. That's where I really have a big issue.

49:54

Now, I think that's something that his pastor should be saying, no, we got to find a different way.

50:01

Not during a worship service. You know, that's, that's, I don't think that you put a new believer up there.

50:10

Do we allow him to go on CNN and share the gospel?

50:15

Duh, of course. Why wouldn't we? That's, that's the thing.

50:23

Um, Melissa Owens, I think you're, you're right. She says, I think it's about consistency in Kanye's life.

50:28

That's, that's what I'm calling for. That's what I'm saying. And I think that that's what we need to do.

50:35

Is it arbitrary? Of course it is. It's going to be arbitrary with everybody. But the issue is that what we're going to see is that people are going to grow at a different pace.

50:46

There are some people that after one year, you can look at them and say, yep, they, they sure seem like they're believers.

50:53

It sure looks like they are believers in Christ and we see fruit and a lot of good fruit.

51:03

And there's others who've been sitting in a pew for 30 years that we go, they're not ready yet.

51:10

Is that arbitrary? Yeah, it's arbitrary. But the reality is, you know, that's what we would do now.

51:19

Do I know Kanye well enough to be able to say, I think he should get, you know, he's ready to be up on, on a part.

51:26

No, I don't know him personally. So I have to have more caution. You see, that's the thing. Pastor Adam may know him better than, well, definitely knows him better than I do.

51:35

And maybe saying, hey, that's fine. You're, you're at a good place. But I don't know that I can say that.

51:45

And I think that the fact that he might be going to churches that aren't good would give even more caution, but he needs someone to speak to him.

51:55

Right. And I think, I think that's the issue. I agree.

52:01

I mean, there's some red, there's red flags that shows that they're pretty young and discerned to have either have little or no discernment that, that would definitely be a red flag and real fast.

52:11

I, how dare you say I'm leading Presbyterian? That's Calvinist. No, he's, he's going to be, he's going to be.

52:21

I know, I already know. He's, he's not leaning. He's full on. So I'll have to send this to Calvinist Klein and get a, get a response from Andrew.

52:38

I'm an ex -Presbyterian, I've been Baptist and Presbyterian most of my life. So any, any, any other thoughts on, on Kanye guys?

52:48

Uh, well, wait and see. So I've been saying all the time.

52:55

I agree. Be patient. It'll, it'll, it'll work itself out because he is very public figure and it will play out in the public sphere.

53:03

Well, that's right. You know, the, the, the worst person that I can think of to as representative

53:08

Christianity and is the one who still basically keeps me in the faith is

53:14

Larry Norman. I mean, he did so much and even fathered a child out of marriage, had divorces, uh, at least two or three divorces behind him.

53:23

Uh, many fiancees, apparently bickering with his band, Randy Stonehill, the whole bit.

53:30

Um, yet, uh, he's still, um,

53:36

I will say this. I pray. I mean, I think we should all definitely pray that it is a true conversion for the glory of God.

53:43

So that's, maybe we can do is, yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

53:50

You know, I, you know, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I 've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, and uh, you know, any, any, any, other

54:01

Andrews, You did very very great. Yeah the connection went bad, you went crackling

54:07

Andrew. Yeah, the connection went bad. Okay, am I sounding okay now? Yeah, you're still crackling.

54:16

All right, I don't know why. You were lucky good before, because you did go away after a while.

54:26

All right, hmm. Say something.

54:33

All right, something. Yeah, that sounded better, you're back to good. All right, well what I did was I just closed down some stuff, so hopefully that...

54:44

Yeah, I don't know. All right, what's this other topic? Democrats war on what?

54:50

I didn't see the title. Yeah, so so let so and folks if anyone else wants to come in if you want to discuss it we're gonna we'll still have open if you want to talk about Kanye West please go to apologetxlive .com

55:00

and we could talk about it any any other topics you want to talk about. But the second thing I want to discuss is anyone who watched a

55:09

Democrat National Convention, I hope that you... I hope people see what or at least hope

55:18

Christians see what we're up against. I'm putting some comments up for folks on YouTube that are coming in.

55:28

Someone is saying he shouldn't be leading worship services. Donald says that. So what we end up seeing with the

55:36

Democrats is if you've been watching you end up seeing that they are outrightly saying, hey if you don't accept our view on homosexuality, you don't have a right to have a church.

55:56

I hope folks heard this because this is what what Beto said, right?

56:01

If you don't if you don't share his view on same -sex marriage they want to start by stripping the tax -exempt status.

56:09

For many churches they know that for many churches, it's not the donations that come in that are the issue.

56:16

I think people will still donate. We at Striving Fraternity we have take donations and we have people that support us.

56:25

We had the IRS take away our tax -exempt status and we had to fight to get it back. You know what?

56:30

We had to contact everyone and say we're not tax -exempt anymore. No one cared. We still had donations coming in because they weren't donating for the sake of getting some tax exemption.

56:42

And so I don't think that's where it's gonna hurt. But you think of these churches that haven't had to pay property tax and now suddenly like the one church

56:50

I knew of there's a church here in Jersey that Jersey changed the law and said that if a church owns you know, the church

56:58

I used to attend has 35 acres of which only like three of it is usable the rest of its wetlands.

57:05

But they passed a law that said that if you have a certain amount of unused land, you're gonna pay taxes on it.

57:13

So all of a sudden the church has to pay 30, I think 35 or 36 thousand dollars in taxes.

57:19

Now you think about it. Suddenly everybody is giving money to donation to go to ministry and all of a sudden $35 ,000 has to go to paying taxes that they never had to pay before.

57:34

And this is what I think they realize there's gonna be a lot of churches that they're just not gonna be able to do with churches that have been having the same building for years and they haven't had to pay taxes and you know, this is they've been able to enjoy the fact that they are, you know tax -exempt and what's ends up happening?

57:55

Suddenly they have to pay all this in taxes. Well, the reality is many churches are gonna fold.

58:00

They know that. But if you think it's gonna stop there, it is not. It's not gonna stop there.

58:07

The Democrats aren't gonna stop by saying, oh, we're gonna take away your tax exemption. No, the next step if these folks get into office, they're gonna start saying if you don't support their view of same -sex marriage and their view on homosexuality, you shouldn't be a church.

58:22

They're gonna start coming after the churches. This is where it's going. They found their issue that they could use to bully

58:30

Christians into giving up core Christian principles like what the Bible says.

58:36

This is what we're gonna end up seeing. This is only the beginning of an attack.

58:42

Folks, the reality. Go study World War II Germany, please.

58:48

Start getting an education on this. Why? Because you see a pattern. That pattern is unfolding before us in America.

58:56

You start with the propaganda. The Germans knew they had to completely control the media.

59:03

They're sitting there and they're saying we have to control the narrative and when they control the narrative, once they have control of the narrative, they know they could say whatever they want and anybody who says the opposite is never gonna be heard.

59:17

What do we see right now? We see a narrative being completely controlled. Why? Because you see people that the media, whether you like it or not, they are completely one -sided and really what we see now is really what we'd call propaganda.

59:35

They are promoting things and it is completely one -sided and what we end up seeing in this is you end up seeing just here they're sitting there, they're saying whatever they want to say now.

59:50

I mean you look at this impeachment process. This is completely one -sided. You have one party that is allowed to decide, actually one person of one party, that's allowed to decide what witnesses can come in during an impeachment.

01:00:03

The other party is not allowed to call any witnesses unless the

01:00:10

Democrats accept it. Schiff has to accept it and then the others can, so he can have complete veto power in the way they're doing this.

01:00:19

Everything was done behind closed doors where the Republicans weren't allowed in, right? And you don't hear any outcry about the unfairness of this.

01:00:28

No, why? Because they control the media. They have the majority of the media in lockstep with them and because of that they can say whatever they want and they can try to rewrite history and try to say things and basically create a narrative that they want everyone to believe and that's what we start to see.

01:00:50

That's phase one, was to get the media. But there's many things you have to get to get the control.

01:00:56

To close an open society and bring in socialism, which is what they want to do, there's several things you have to do.

01:01:02

You have to control the media, you have to control the money, you have to control the masses, the meals where people, you know, everything.

01:01:13

You also have to control the guns, they want that. So what you end up seeing is, you see that we have a full -on attack on Christianity.

01:01:21

Why Christianity? Same reason Christianity was attacked in Germany in World War II. Because only then do, in World War II Germany, the

01:01:29

Christians were the first ones that they went after before going after Jews. Why? Because he needed to get rid of the people that would say there is an absolute standard of morality.

01:01:41

And when the real Christians were imprisoned and all that, hey now, now Hitler can say he's

01:01:47

Christian. He created his own Christian Church, but it's one that's not the Christian Church.

01:01:52

It was one what he wanted it to be. And so you end up seeing this over and over and over again.

01:01:57

Go look at Venezuela, the patterns there. Now look at Venezuela, they're killing each other over food.

01:02:06

You have the Democrats starting, they're not saying we need to shut down the mosques.

01:02:12

Notice, it wasn't the mosques, and there was all the cheering, shutting down churches.

01:02:18

It's not the mosques that they're going over. You know what Christians are gonna do to people that practice homosexuality?

01:02:24

Share the gospel with them. That's what they're gonna do. That's what a true Christian would do.

01:02:30

That's the Christian message, is to share the gospel, because that person that practices homosexuality is just as much as a sinner as we are.

01:02:39

But we've been forgiven, and we want them to be forgiven. You know what the Muslim is gonna do?

01:02:45

The Muslim that follows and practices Islam is gonna do? Throw them off a building. Kill them.

01:02:52

Stone them. There's a big difference there. So when we look at this, and you see that,

01:03:01

I remember that one time at the gay bar where the Muslim went in and was shooting everyone.

01:03:06

They didn't want to even admit he was a Muslim. But every time something happens that they can say, oh, he must have been

01:03:11

Christian when these things happen. There's a narrative being put out there.

01:03:17

And what you see is the Democrats have started a war on Christianity. The war has begun.

01:03:24

And unfortunately, if we Christians do not stand up, and maybe Kanye West is being risen up by God because he already has a platform of very loyal followers.

01:03:39

Who knows? Maybe there's going to be a bunch of unbelievers that are going to go and get

01:03:45

Kanye's album and get saved. You know, I've said for a very long time, you want to change the culture, share the gospel.

01:03:53

That's how you change culture. That's the way we end up changing the culture. It's not through trying to get politicians elected.

01:04:00

No, if there are enough Christians in the culture, the politicians will pretend to be

01:04:08

Christian. If you want evidence of that, go look at early American history.

01:04:14

I mean, think about this. The first Roman Catholic president that we ever had was JFK. And he ran into problems because he was

01:04:21

Catholic, because it was expected that this was a Christian nation. There was always people that at least professed to be

01:04:29

Christian, even when they weren't. So what you end up seeing is

01:04:34

Christianity's got to go for these guys to be able to get what they want for them to bring in the the the socialism and the control that they want.

01:04:48

They have to get rid of Christianity. And that's what we end up seeing here.

01:04:54

We see that Christianity is the very thing that has its the that's where we see the its head on the chopping block.

01:05:03

OK, and so we need to be aware that this is just the beginning.

01:05:10

You know, Andrew, it looks like you had something you want to say on this. Oh, no, I've got lots of things

01:05:16

I want to say, but yeah, OK, OK.

01:05:21

OK, so I would say, yeah, it is funny, isn't it, how the

01:05:27

Democrats can be bedfell? Sorry, my kids are playing games. I don't know if you can hear that in the background. They're really loud, but that the

01:05:34

Democrats can be buddies with the with the Muslims. They'll defend them night and day when they when you would think at the very core values between the two are completely opposite.

01:05:45

But I think it's just a case of of two different versions of enemies of Christianity agreeing to work together.

01:05:53

Yeah, and Christian Christianity is the exact. Opposite of what what this what they want,

01:06:00

I mean, this is this is the thing that's always blown me away, because when you look at the contrast. Islam would teach killing those who practice homosexuality, it would teach subordinating women under the men.

01:06:16

And Christianity is the religion that believed in equality for men and women and gave freedom to women around the world that, you know, believes that we should share the gospel with people that practice sin.

01:06:29

So when we look at this, it's like we're looking at we're looking at a world that the liberals should be siding with Christians against Islam.

01:06:39

But no, because darkness isn't going to divide against darkness. Right. Kingdom divided against itself wouldn't stand.

01:06:47

Exactly. I mean, that should tell you that. And there's so many Christians that want to try to associate with with the liberal world and with the, you know, associate with Islam and bring everyone in.

01:07:00

And let's all let's all sing Kumbaya and have happy songs. The reality that we end up seeing here is this is a case where what we have is people who hate

01:07:18

Christ and will agree to basically they'll they'll agree to anything that ends

01:07:26

Christianity. OK, and that's that's the thing that you end up seeing.

01:07:35

Someone saying that they don't find the link, if you go to apologetics live dot com, it says you just scroll down, it says to participate live and there's a stream yard link.

01:07:47

So just go there. Bring in Mr. John Vince, I'm going to put you in the in the back for a bit.

01:07:54

Just let me know when you want to come back in in the in the chat there. So John's doing his hair, make sure he looks good.

01:08:00

John, what do you have? What do you have for us tonight? Oh, man, I look like garbage right now because I just woke up from a nap.

01:08:07

But I do graveyard. So, you know, I have to get my sleeping working graveyards.

01:08:15

What? Yeah. Yeah. Working graveyards. Hey, what's the topic or what are you guys doing?

01:08:23

You're just doing discussions or what? That's good.

01:08:28

So Vincent, check this guy out. He comes in, goes, hey, put me in the show. What are you guys talking about?

01:08:37

What's up with this guy? I just woke up. Just like I said, I just woke up and so I want to know what the heck you guys are talking about.

01:08:43

He's someone who shouldn't be given a platform. Yeah, I agree. All right.

01:08:51

So what we were talking about was some guy named. We're talking about someone that wasn't in the news very much.

01:08:57

What was his name? I don't even remember his name, Vincent. Is it somebody north?

01:09:04

Yeah, something north. There's some north here or east, east. Some kind of rapper, dude.

01:09:13

Yeah. All right. Let me bring let me bring Rob in, although Rob is sideways. That's that's. No, he's

01:09:19

OK now. He looks like he's sideways to me. It looks normal to me. Yeah, it looks normal to me.

01:09:25

I mean, as normal as he could look, but. He's muted. Let's see if we can unmute him.

01:09:32

I can't unmute him because he's he's gone. He's gone. Maybe I'll come back in.

01:09:39

So so we're talking about Kanye West, whether he should be given a platform or he's got a platform, but we're talking about now is the

01:09:49

Democrat Party, how they've basically declared war on Christianity. Yeah. And and so, you know,

01:09:58

I think that I think the problem for many Christians is just like, you know, and I know some of you guys have been listening to me.

01:10:05

You know this. We in the time of the Holocaust, many

01:10:11

Jewish people. Did not think that there's any way that Germany would do what it did.

01:10:21

They thought that. You know, they just thought that there's that this couldn't happen, even when they were taken and thrown into concentration camps or sorry, first into the into the ghettos.

01:10:36

And when there was talk of being put into concentration camps and exterminated, they said, no way would they do that?

01:10:43

They need us. We were their labor. And so they convinced me that can't happen.

01:10:49

And so what you end up seeing over and over and over again as you get this kind of scapegoating, because that's what this is.

01:10:55

The whole issue is they want to bring in socialism and they need a scapegoat to make every to make some group of people look bad, which is really funny because they're the party that says that we should show tolerance.

01:11:09

That we should be open minded to others and that we shouldn't be, you know, showing some sort of prejudice and, you know, restricting people in any way because of their religion, their gender, anything like that.

01:11:25

And here, what do we have? We have a party that is stereotypically choosing to identify

01:11:32

Christians and start. First, I took the media. This is where we were saying before John came in, we're trying to say how they got the media.

01:11:39

But what do you see now? One of the things you're starting to see now is that if you don't believe their view of same sex marriage and homosexuality, they don't think you can be in Congress.

01:11:51

They don't think you can be a judge. They don't think you should be a teacher. Why those three? Those are the same three we saw in Nazi Germany.

01:11:58

Why? They don't want you having an influence on the next generation. This is the very thing they've been doing for, for what, 40 years plus, 60 years pride is trying to get the next generation.

01:12:10

That's why they went into getting all the liberals. They had a plan to get into the school systems and start having all of the teachers be liberals to get into journalism.

01:12:21

Say this again, Vincent. They started that early on, even before the world wars, he's slowly getting them in a,

01:12:28

I was even in the thirties in our country. They started making inroads. Correct. Because they tried to, to get, to just take over and it failed.

01:12:36

And they, they, they knew they had to do a long -term plan and they're, they're doing that. Yeah. They probably test, use the, at the

01:12:42

South as a, as a testing ground, you know, cause they, they knew that that was going to be a, a rich area of, of, of conservatives, you know, being at the

01:12:55

South where it was considered to be. But yeah, I was going to say also as a, as a thought is if they couldn't influence them, then they probably won't also kill them.

01:13:07

So therefore that's what Planned Parenthood was about, you know, we don't, we don't want to have kids leaning onto the right or, or having conservative views or, or even

01:13:21

Christian views. Uh, so let's just go ahead and, and wipe them out. Yeah.

01:13:28

So we got Rob saying, yeah, sorry about that.

01:13:35

Go ahead, Andrew. Let's, let's get Rob to, The old saying is, uh, if you, if you don't learn from history, you condemn to repeat it.

01:13:44

Well, yeah. And the thing with that we're seeing with the history is you could look at more recent history,

01:13:49

Venezuela. I mean, it was just, it was, they were a free country when

01:13:58

Bush was president. That wasn't that long ago, you know, you know,

01:14:05

George W. Bush, sorry. And so, you know, how long ago was that?

01:14:10

Not very long. I mean, it took 10 years and now they're killing each other for food.

01:14:18

So Rob, yeah, let's welcome Robin. And, um, so Rob, you want to weigh in on this?

01:14:28

Uh, yeah, I think you're talking about socialism. Uh, yeah, we're talking about Lutheran baptism anymore.

01:14:34

So, you know, I know folks who don't know, we, we hosted a debate with Rob here and I'm glad that he, he, you know, he, he decided to still come in, you know, after the debate,

01:14:46

I guess that, that, you know, he, he's not upset with me. No.

01:14:52

Uh, you know, it's, what I find interesting is, uh, they'll ignore the instances like, uh,

01:14:58

Venezuela and they'll point to Sweden, countries of that nature, but they're not pure socialism countries.

01:15:06

They actually operate off of capitalism and that enables them to do socialistic things.

01:15:13

Um, correct. And so when they pull, if you're in an engagement with somebody, you're trying to tell them that socialism is wrong and evil.

01:15:21

Uh, and for whatever reason, scripture doesn't work. Uh, and you're trying to use, uh, logic.

01:15:27

Um, you need to keep in mind that when they pull those instances out, it's problematic because it's not pure socialism.

01:15:36

It's, uh, basically more or less kind of the system we have now in America, where it's ostensibly driven by capitalism, but then we do socialistic things with it.

01:15:48

Um, also what's interesting is most of these countries actually have closed borders because of the socialistic, uh, things that they want to do in order to best serve their people who belong to their country.

01:16:05

They actually have closed borders, which we right now are pushing did not have. So basically what we would be doing is doing what, what these people are pushing for right now, at least is a form of socialism that they are operating, but with open borders, which no other country has done.

01:16:24

Which, and that, and that's a great point. Cause that's one of the points I wanted to bring up because what you see is, and Donald saying

01:16:33

Sweden capitalism with a huge safety net. And that's, that's actually what it really is.

01:16:38

I think Vincent said something good in the chat here. He said, uh, it's socialism funded by capitalism.

01:16:44

And that's what you end up seeing. You, you see that it is there.

01:16:50

United States right now is it's been an open border. We've always had open borders, but we were capitalistic.

01:16:59

We didn't have a welfare state. There's no country that can succeed with a welfare state and open borders, because all that means is people are going to flood in to get, take advantage of the welfare.

01:17:13

And that's what we see happening. And so that's why you never have that. You can't have that.

01:17:20

And the, this is where we're, they're trying to go with it and it's, it's going to bring about the collapse.

01:17:25

But my concern is not the, the, the government so much.

01:17:31

Um, and I had some clips, I had to close down the browser to, to save on the mic, but had way too many windows open,

01:17:37

I guess. But what I had, uh, uh, some clips and, you know, one of the things

01:17:42

I'm gonna be playing on, on my Andrew Rapowitz rap report podcast is a clip that I, I, I have, you know, from a, you know, basically it was from a,

01:17:54

I listened. I do this for you guys, but I listened to a bunch of gender podcasts and so I can stay ahead of where they're going with stuff.

01:18:05

And they're very open. One of the podcasts said, you know, that they're, they can't wait for socialism so that they to get the gender, because they think that socialism is going to bring about their gender freedom and that capitalism is holding them back.

01:18:21

When you think about it, it's like, uh, not really. Cause it's capitalism right now. That's pushing all the homosexuality stuff with the, the, the genderism.

01:18:30

When you have the dolls, you, you have the Mattel dolls. I talked about this on a, you know, on a different, uh, uh, on my rap report podcast.

01:18:40

But when you look at the dolls, what's the goal of it is to get people used to just changing gender in and out as, as often as they want.

01:18:46

And so, uh, that's, you know, what's interesting. Uh, did you, did you see that news?

01:18:52

Uh, where they found that new, uh, organism that has like, uh, I think like 700 something like different sexes or something like that.

01:19:02

Some kind of, uh, almost like a mold, but they say it doesn't act like mold. It acts more like a, an animal.

01:19:08

Um, they found it like, uh, in a, in a foreign country. I haven't, I haven't seen that one, but there was, what's interesting is when they talk about it and all the news articles, they repeated the different sexes several times in the articles.

01:19:26

And I think that's kind of like the subtle way the media is trying to influence, see, look, it's natural to have different, uh, you know, sexes or gender.

01:19:36

Here's the thing. It's not subtle. This is, it's anthropomorphism there. They're trying to put things that are for man onto other, you know,

01:19:44

I listened to a podcast called curiosity and they usually have a lot of good things, but they, they're heavy into, uh, evolution and all kinds of things like that.

01:19:55

They were talking about a creature that they found that were basically one of these animals.

01:20:00

And what you end up seeing is when they mate, they, wherever they are, they all come back to the same place to mate.

01:20:07

And what you end up seeing is when they mate, there's four times as many men as males as females.

01:20:15

And so what they end up doing is saying that, um, what these animals have to do, because there's so many men, some of the males will fight to the death.

01:20:24

Some of them change color to look like a faint female to attract a female.

01:20:30

So what they were pushing was they're saying, see, we see transgenderism in the animal kingdom. Therefore it's right.

01:20:36

I mean, that's basically they're looking in the animal kingdom and it's like, it changes color. You know why it changes color? Because God created it to change color.

01:20:43

It is not trying to be a girl. That's not the first time they've used that argument.

01:20:49

If you remember, um, they gave a similar argument and I now pronounce you

01:20:54

Chuck and Larry that because dolphins and other animals, uh, commit, uh, homosexual, you know, acts, therefore it's natural, perfectly harmless.

01:21:04

Yes. But see, the thing is that these animals aren't conducting homosexual acts because they were actually created to do whatever they're doing.

01:21:12

That's the difference. This is not something that they, you do not see the animals discussing this saying, well,

01:21:18

I identify this way, right? They do what God created them to do. These, these, and I forget which animals they were that they were talking about on the curiosity podcast, but they were trying to say that here you have animals that are acting out in transgenderism and you, you, that's something that humans do because humans have a dress code.

01:21:43

Animals don't have a dress code. They have an ability to change color.

01:21:49

That's what they have to them. To them. We're nothing but higher. I am. We're just animals.

01:21:55

I know an animal in their view. That's all we are. Just animals. See, and this is the thing they want to say.

01:22:02

We're just animals. Okay. And so they look to the animal kingdom to justify their behavior, but what's their behavior?

01:22:08

Think about this. What's the behavior they're putting onto the animal? It's not the thing they're saying.

01:22:14

It's not transgenderism because the animals aren't changing their clothes. They're not. They're changing color to pick a property of the animal kingdom.

01:22:27

They want to associate with, but there's plenty of things in animal kingdom that they don't want to associate with people, you know, just randomly killing things.

01:22:35

Well, it, just like Rob said, I mean, you know, they're, they're going to look for, these animals look like they're protecting homosexuality.

01:22:42

So they are. And the thing is that they are going to pick on that when, okay. So they teach, you know, that their survival of the fittest in the animal kingdom, right?

01:22:55

However, they don't want humans to act that way. They want us to save the spotted owl.

01:23:00

And we should be concerned about different animals going extinct. And so what you end up seeing is you end up seeing that you have people who are going to do things that act opposite to the way animals act.

01:23:17

That should be something that wakes them up to go, wait, we're not like animals. So, all right, let me,

01:23:25

I'm going to, I'm going to put you guys all into backstage here. And just let me know in the chat, if you want to come in,

01:23:31

I want to get to another topic. If anyone wants to join, just go to apologeticslive .com.

01:23:38

The link to join is there. Before we get to Flat Earth, yes, we're going to talk

01:23:44

Flat Earth. I'll explain why. I would like to invite you guys to come and join us in Israel.

01:23:50

If you want to come to Israel, we're going in March of 2021. It will be all the speakers at Striving Fraternity, Pastor Frank Mullis, Dr.

01:23:59

Anthony Esfestro and myself will be joined by Justin Peters. We will be there in 13 days.

01:24:05

Here's the thing about it. If you're saying, well, it's March 2021, that's a far way away. If you put $500 down today, you have till next

01:24:15

Thanksgiving. That's over a whole year to decide. You have till next

01:24:21

Thanksgiving to cancel. And if you cancel, you lose only $125. So you want to get in now, save your spot.

01:24:31

Vincent's not going to do it because he's got a small football team in his house, and he can't afford it for all 15 children that he's got.

01:24:40

And so he doesn't have the money for that. We understand. But the rest of you, please join us here to go to Israel.

01:24:49

We're going to be going in March 2021. All the details are at 20212021israeltrip .com.

01:24:59

So that's 2021israeltrip .com, 2021israeltrip .com.

01:25:04

So come join us. Even if you're down under like Andrew, you can join us.

01:25:12

We actually have someone from Australia, I believe, that's going on the trip. We've got some folks from the

01:25:17

UK, I believe. We've got some Canadians. So wherever you are, there's a different price.

01:25:23

If you are going to fly, you fly. Get the best tickets you can. Meet us in Tel Aviv.

01:25:29

All that information is on the website. So you could check that out. And so I want to get into discussing

01:25:37

Flat Earth. And Donald says, speaking of lameness, Flat Earth. It is kind of lame there,

01:25:44

Donald. I agree with you. Why is this such a big topic? This is crazy. There's a reason,

01:25:51

I believe, that we're seeing this. And there's some simple things that I want to do to give you guys some ways of being able to talk with folks that are involved.

01:25:59

I stand to reason if folks that follow Greg Kokel's ministry, they were discussing, they got asked about this.

01:26:07

And what they ended up seeing is that there are some arguments being made, and they just didn't want to tackle it.

01:26:15

And it stands to reason they like to research the things and have answers. So they didn't answer it on the show.

01:26:23

Maybe they will. But I was speaking with one of the folks there, and I mentioned there's some simple ways to deal with Flat Earth.

01:26:30

Now, the church that I used to attend, there was someone who believed in Flat Earth. I mean, and I'm not just saying he kind of followed it.

01:26:37

I mean, he was full on, convinced his cousin of Flat Earth and was really, really into it.

01:26:44

And two of the pastors said, when I talked to him, said I was going to be leaving to go move to Pennsylvania and work with a church plant that's starting up.

01:26:52

It's a Grace Advanced Church in Pennsylvania, Master's Church of Bucks County. And as we're headed out there, they said, look, before you leave, we really need you to talk to this one fellow.

01:27:03

And so I got together with him and we talked. And now one of the things you have to understand with Flat Earth is the people that get into this have spent hours,

01:27:11

I mean, hundreds of hours, sometimes, sometimes way more than 100 hours watching videos and they're looking at this and they're being indoctrinated through the videos.

01:27:21

Some of the videos, I mean, I'll grant you, these videos are entertaining, okay?

01:27:27

They're funny to, I mean, you watch it at first and there's something, a phenomenon you have to realize happens.

01:27:34

The people watch these things and they're sitting there and going, people can't be believing this.

01:27:41

And they start looking at it almost in an entertainment value. They can't believe people are believing in a

01:27:47

Flat Earth. That's crazy. And so what you end up seeing is that as they start watching it, they start talking to friends going, this is, hey,

01:27:57

I'm watching this. You got to check this out. And then they start defending it to people because they're listening.

01:28:03

And I think what you often see is people giving an honest defense, trying to be fair with what they're seeing.

01:28:08

And no, no, no, they don't believe this is what they're believing. But as they're defending it to others, they start believing it themselves.

01:28:17

And they start to recognize that, oh, this has some valid points.

01:28:22

Now, let me start by saying every system has valid points. I don't care if you're Black Hebrew Israelites, Mormonism, all of them have a system that works itself out.

01:28:33

They have dilemmas in the system. They have a saving device. They have some life preserver to keep their system alive.

01:28:41

They have some way that they are able to give an answer to explain away whatever you present as a problem.

01:28:49

And so Flat Earth, what you end up seeing is they believe that the Earth is basically a flat disk in space.

01:28:58

Now, some will believe that the other planets are round. It's just the Earth that's flat. They will mostly believe that everything we see revolves around the

01:29:07

Earth. The Earth is the center of not just the solar system, but the galaxy. And so it sits there.

01:29:14

They're going to say, well, look, there's the four corners of the Earth. It must mean it's flat, except the sphere doesn't have a corner.

01:29:21

So just looking at that, I mean, mostly all you have to do is look at the scriptures they use in context.

01:29:26

That's what I did, is go through the context with this individual and work through the passages of scripture.

01:29:33

There are no four corners to an Earth that's round, that's a sphere. We're sorry.

01:29:40

Well, we would say it's fair. They would say it's round. They would say it's a disk. You don't have a corner on a disk.

01:29:46

So you can't use that and say it's flat because that doesn't show it. Okay, so are there some simple things we could do?

01:29:55

And the answer is yes. There's simple things you could do to see that the Earth is a sphere. What I want to do in the time we have is give you some things that are their best arguments for a flat

01:30:05

Earth that they try to argue from science. And then what I'd like to do is

01:30:14

I would like to then give you a way to be able to basically do a test on your own.

01:30:23

KT, by the way, is going back to an earlier point. She says, I wonder if Andrew would want to interview Adam Tyson at some point.

01:30:29

Yes. Yes, I would. And I'm going to be trying to set that up.

01:30:34

Actually, I spoke to someone who knows him indirectly, went to school with him. And I'm going to be trying to see if I can get him on.

01:30:42

And then I would be able to get some answers to some of the things I raised earlier. So what we have is if you look at a flat

01:30:55

Earth, so and I can't really do this. You know, I'd like to take a big table and put mountains on it, and then you could see it.

01:31:03

But if the Earth is flat, OK, what do I have around that I can use?

01:31:10

But you just think of the Earth being as if it was a flat disk and you'd have mountain ranges.

01:31:16

This may not work so well for the podcast. For those listening on podcasts, use your imagination. But you have a flat

01:31:22

Earth. You have mountain ranges. OK, now, what I want you to do is to think about this.

01:31:28

If you go to any mountain range and watch a sunrise, you could tell very easily whether or not the

01:31:37

Earth is a sphere or if it's flat. Now, the argument that the flat

01:31:42

Earthers will have is they're going to say that the Earth is flat and the

01:31:47

Sun circles around the Earth.

01:31:53

Now, the Earth being flat, the Sun is actually a thing going in a circular motion. But not just a circular motion, because how do you get seasons?

01:32:01

What they argue is it moves in and back and forth in a circular motion so you can get your seasons.

01:32:07

So it kind of does a rotating thing in and out while going circular.

01:32:13

So now, if the Earth is flat and it's circular, what we would see on a mountain range is, and Eric List is asking, could there be any more gaudy graphic on the screen?

01:32:29

Well, I could get a gaudy graphic of a flat Earth. I couldn't find one. So, but what we end up seeing is if the

01:32:39

Earth is flat on the mountain range, if the Sun is coming in, oh, wow,

01:32:44

I may have a good screen. Let me see if I could share this screen. Okay, let's share that screen.

01:32:54

Here's a good example on screen. You're seeing the Sun come over a mountain range, right?

01:33:00

As we see that come over the mountain range, what we end up seeing there is that mountain range is going to have the, basically, we're going to see the

01:33:16

Sun, right now, you're seeing it come over the peak, right?

01:33:23

Now, if we were to, if I was to, let me change it to this one. Here we go. This is good because you're seeing the

01:33:29

Sun come up. You're seeing one side covered and the other side not. What I'm ultimately looking for is a sunrise, if I could find that.

01:33:38

This could work. And for those on audio, they're listening just on audio, you won't be able to see it so well.

01:33:44

But what you'd end up seeing on a mountain range here is if you have a mountain range, you're going to see the

01:33:52

Sun, if the Earth was flat, coming vertically across the range.

01:33:59

So, in other words, you're not going to see just the tips of the mountain range hitting the Sun first.

01:34:05

You're going to see the side of the mountain. You're going to see the sunlight coming from, you know, from one way, like east to west, or left to right.

01:34:14

That's how you're going to end up seeing it. And that is going to be what it's going to look like.

01:34:20

But what would end up happening in a case like that, what we end up seeing when you actually go to a mountain range, you know what you end up seeing?

01:34:28

You end up seeing the Sun coming down from the top. And as it comes down from the top, you're seeing it then, the

01:34:39

Sun is coming from top to top, down. That's what we end up seeing. And when we see that, that's what shows us that there's a sphere.

01:34:50

It's not going around in a circle. It's going from top to bottom.

01:34:57

You're going to see the sunlight hit the top of the mountain and come down horizontally.

01:35:03

That is a very simple exercise you could do if the Earth was flat. You would see it go left to right, right to left, depending on where you're sitting.

01:35:14

Okay? If it's a sphere, you will see it go. You guys having trouble?

01:35:23

You having trouble hearing me? Yeah, the static's back again. Yeah, static's back exactly.

01:35:31

All right, let me see what else I can close then. I'll try to close some more things here.

01:35:39

Yeah, it's when you pull pictures up that it's already going that way. Oh, okay. All right.

01:35:47

Well, all right, let me explain again. I tried to bring up the picture to be helpful. It wasn't so good, huh?

01:35:52

All right. So here's basically the thing. What we end up seeing is if you have the sun rising at a mountain range, if the

01:36:06

Earth is a sphere, that means the sun is coming up over the edge, and you're going to see the light hit the top of a mountain range and work its way down horizontally.

01:36:17

If it's going around in a disk, then you're going to see the light come in from the side vertically and go across the mountain range.

01:36:28

So my challenge to you is just go to a mountain range and see which way you see it. See if the light comes down from the top or see if it's going from left to right.

01:36:37

Go and look for yourself. If you want another example, another thing you could do to test, go and watch a sunrise and whether it be on something best to do over water, but you can do this if you have anything that is a flat surface, something that will give you a surface where you can see it.

01:37:00

In other words, you don't want to have it over a mountain range because there's ridges to the mountain. But if you're looking over water, stand up and watch the sunrise.

01:37:09

Just as that sun just peaks over the water, drop down as quick as you can and see if you see another one.

01:37:19

You see, if it was a disk and the sun is just coming in toward you, then that's going to be at the same plane.

01:37:28

But if you see a second sunrise because you changed your position to be lower to the ground, then you're looking at the sun coming over a sphere.

01:37:40

And it's actually what we do. How do I know that? I was sitting there trying to get a great picture of the sun as it was setting on the

01:37:48

West Coast over the water. And I was standing up in the hotel room trying to get a picture outside this little kind of sort of balcony thing.

01:37:57

And I stood up and I just mixed the great picture because some clouds got in the way. What did I do?

01:38:02

I went down to the ground of this balcony and took the picture again. I had another couple of seconds.

01:38:09

Now the clouds were gone. I was able to get the picture I wanted. Because I got to see it twice.

01:38:14

Why? Because my position changed. That's two experiments that you can do. Now, the best argument that the flat earthers have, the best argument that they have for a flat earth is that they will say that you can do an experiment in springtime, falltime.

01:38:34

You can do this experiment and you can actually look first thing in the morning, go and look and you can see a boat that is beyond the mileage that you should be able to see if there's a curvature.

01:38:46

So when we see it with a curvature, we look and there's a certain point where you can't see because the earth's curved and you can't see it any further.

01:38:54

And the argument is, and this was done somewhere in the UK, where they looked down a canal and they were actually able to look further than the curvature of the earth would allow.

01:39:09

And they were surprised by that. And that caused great question because if the curvature of the earth shouldn't allow you to look that distance.

01:39:17

However, this can be answered very simply scientifically. The simple question that I asked my friend was, why do they always do it first thing in the morning at that certain time of year?

01:39:28

Why don't they do it any other time of the year, any other time of the day? Very simply, because it's the only time that experiment works the way it does.

01:39:35

What's happening? You're having the heat, you're having different water temperatures between the air temperature and the water temperature.

01:39:42

And as you're getting those temperatures to change, you actually have a refraction of the light.

01:39:49

So it's actually bouncing off the curvature because of the heat coming from the water.

01:39:56

And that heat coming off the water with the cooler air is causing it to basically cause a refraction of light.

01:40:02

So you're seeing over the curvature of the earth. And that's why they do this experiment and convinces people, except for one major thing.

01:40:10

It will only work at a certain point in the day. And it only works at a certain time of the year.

01:40:16

The rest of the year, that experiment doesn't work. It shows what we would see in a sphere.

01:40:22

So their best argument only works when they set it up right. And they will sometimes say, but look, we have this.

01:40:32

We have this one photographer. There was a photographer went outside, I think it was Chicago, and he had a time -lapse video.

01:40:40

And they show how they're trying to show how you could see further than you should be able to see.

01:40:47

And again, you're seeing it because of this same phenomenon. And the interesting thing is what they end up showing is not the raw video.

01:40:56

They showed a video that's actually set up so that it basically takes into account that change of curvature and it smooths it out.

01:41:08

The raw one, you see the buildings bouncing up and down. And so you don't see it as far as you should.

01:41:15

You see that the heat as it's changing, causing it to bounce up and down.

01:41:22

So the issue that you want to see with it is there's simple ways to test it.

01:41:29

I don't know if you guys have anything before we wrap up. No one else came in for open Q &A.

01:41:37

We're getting an echo from someone. So I'll just mute everyone. And you guys unmute yourself when you want to talk. So I don't know if Vincent, you're trying to unmute or not.

01:41:47

So you guys have anything? I know Vincent and John, you guys have dealt with this plenty in the council.

01:41:54

Well, that's because a lot of the Black Hebrew Israelites are Flat Earthers too. But I've also listened to the non -Black

01:42:00

Hebrew Israelites Flat Earthers too. And a lot of their arguments. And you're right, they can be very convincing if you listen to them what they state.

01:42:14

Because they would have some stuff that they'll throw at you if you're not ready for it. Yeah, it's like, to me, so much time seems to be wasted on...

01:42:28

Not, and I'm not saying you, but I'm just saying there's a lot of people out there that waste a lot of time on this one. Why is this even the focus?

01:42:35

Shouldn't the gospel be the focus? Well, you bring it right to what Cody says. Let's read what Cody says. Cody says, never met a

01:42:41

Christian Flat Earther that was concerned with personal holiness or sharing the gospel as much as they are convincing people of Flat Earth.

01:42:49

Right, exactly. Absolutely right. He's absolutely right. Because it's a pride issue with them.

01:42:56

And what you end up seeing is that they're all about convincing you they're right about this issue.

01:43:04

And that's the thing that you end up seeing. It becomes something where they know something you don't.

01:43:10

Now, the fella at my church was concerned with personal holiness and the gospel. But then again, he was a genuine

01:43:16

Christian. He came out of believing Flat Earth. Okay, he's not a Flat Earther anymore.

01:43:22

But he thought that this would convince people of the gospel. He thought he could use it to share the gospel. But most of them that buy into this, they're not concerned with the gospel one iota.

01:43:34

And it kind of breaks down to we're going to expose the man for this conspiracy that's been going on.

01:43:41

It really does. It changes their focus from what could be on to it's a big distraction.

01:43:47

Well, you know, Vincent, I think it was on one of the council shows or one of the shows Matt and I were doing. I forget where we first heard about Flat Earth years ago.

01:43:55

And I jokingly said back then, I don't know if you guys remember, I jokingly said the Flat Earth is probably was started by an atheist that just wanted to show how gullible

01:44:05

Christians could be. And sure enough, what we ended up seeing is that the

01:44:11

Flat Earth Society, and yes, there's a Flat Earth Society, and they were started by an agnostic.

01:44:20

And so there you go. I was close. It wasn't atheist. He was agnostic. I was going to bring that up, too, that the root of Flat Earth Society and all that.

01:44:31

Yeah, it came from an atheist. Well, I was going to say an atheist. But yeah, it came from a it was almost like a practical joke is what

01:44:39

I heard was that it basically it was it was a bunch of atheists and agnostics saying, OK, how can we troll the

01:44:46

Christians? And so what they did, they came up with this idea of Flat Earth. And so they broke down all the science behind it,

01:44:52

I guess, or whatever. And then they pretended to be Christians and started started as movement, basically.

01:44:58

And so it was just a ridiculous hoax of what it was. Yeah. Andrew, did you have something you want to say?

01:45:06

I was going to say it was wasn't the last president of the

01:45:12

Flat Earth Society, a very poignant atheist. Yeah, well, he was agnostic.

01:45:18

I don't think he was atheist. I was you know, some of you guys may know I was actually invited to the I'm just going to meet you,

01:45:24

Andrew, because earlier we were getting some feedback. I was invited to speak at the one of the

01:45:30

Flat Earth Society conferences or something. I got an invite. I was like, really, you want me like, are you sure about that?

01:45:40

I was asked the topic to speak on. So I said I wanted to speak out of Isaiah on why round means sphere.

01:45:50

Maybe I should have done something more deceptive and I would have been able to speak there. I would have been one of the speakers.

01:45:58

I mean, hey, if they're not going to stop me, I would gladly go and speak on that if they'd let me go.

01:46:04

If they let me explain why Flat Earth, why the weather is not flat. Hey, great. I'll do it. But, you know,

01:46:10

I think I don't think it's something that, you know, like this one gentleman in my old church, he said, well, why do you think they would do this then?

01:46:18

Why do you think people would believe this? Well, I think initially it was mockery. I think that the agnostic guys that started it were just think it would be funny to get a bunch of Christians to to follow along and fall for this.

01:46:29

And that is their sort of sense of humor that you see that with many of them, just complete mockery and things like this.

01:46:36

But I think that as it goes forward, he said I said a very simple reason. Follow the money.

01:46:42

You look at their YouTube and they got a lot of views on their videos. I mean, there may not be many folks that are believing this, you know, percentage wise.

01:46:53

But those that are watching every video, they're being indoctrinated through the YouTube and they get more people at conferences than you'd you'd be surprised how many people they fit into conferences.

01:47:04

And so it's a moneymaker. I mean, he even showed me there's an app, there's a watch you can get so that it shows you where the moon is on the on the flat of your watch.

01:47:15

Yeah, they got their apps. Yeah. Funny to me is there's even a whole big group of them that are almost

01:47:22

I mean, they don't they they definitely not Christians, but they still believe the flat earth. It's just weird people out there that they've got a whole group that's just like they won't even, you know, they're not

01:47:34

Christianity, but they still believe in a flat earth. Not only that, I mean, you do a

01:47:39

YouTube search of of you just put flat earth documentary. They got documentaries all over the place that are like three hours, four hours long.

01:47:50

I mean, who wants to sit around watching? But that's key. That's no different than word of faith.

01:47:55

You need that long thing to the person who's going to dedicate that kind of time.

01:48:01

They they start watching the next one and next one. And now they spend hours. One of the things that the first question that this fellow who came to my house asked me, he's like,

01:48:11

Andrew, have you have you really looked into this? I said, yeah. He's like, no, but I mean, have you really?

01:48:17

Because, you know, everyone tells me I'm wrong, but they haven't looked into this. How many hours have you watched? And I said,

01:48:23

I've probably watched like 100 hours of video. And he's like, oh, really?

01:48:28

Why don't you believe it? I said, because it's wrong. I mean, because I understand logic.

01:48:34

I understand what they're they're they're playing games with things. And he's like, but it works. I said, but black

01:48:40

Hebrew Israelite think that that works, too. You see, so what I keep doing with them, and this is advice for folks who may deal with someone that's tied into something like this, whatever it is, it's the same pattern.

01:48:53

They get a pride, the pride, maybe they're Lutheran. Um, I just want to see if he was listening.

01:49:04

OK, I threw that one in there for Rob. But I mean, whatever it is that you have somebody that is black

01:49:11

Hebrew Israelite, flat earth, whatever it is. What I did with this fellow is

01:49:16

I said, OK, let's look at something black. He was like, son, he disagreed with evolution. Does evolution do the those that believe in evolution?

01:49:24

Do they think they got solid evidence for their beliefs? Well, yes. Why? Because they ignore any evidence that doesn't support their claim.

01:49:32

They look at the evidence that supports their claim. And they go, see, we look at this evidence. Oh, but you're not looking at all this over here.

01:49:38

That's OK. Let's not look over there. Look right here. Look, there's similarity. Therefore, the evolution must be true.

01:49:46

Well, the problem is not the similarity. The problem is the differences. You can't explain the differences. So you see that has the same saving technique.

01:49:56

And so what we have to do is we have to recognize by bringing them to see the same pattern in a different system.

01:50:05

You look at black Hebrew Israelites and they have answers for all their arguments. You bring something up.

01:50:11

They got an answer. I mean, one of the funniest ones with them that I thought of when I said, OK, you're telling me that only the

01:50:16

Israelites were kidnapped and brought to America. They say, yes. And this one guy said, well,

01:50:22

I said, well, then what about all the people that didn't weren't kidnapped? Were they not Israelites?

01:50:27

And he said, yes, they weren't. They were Gentiles. I said, what about when they're in the same family?

01:50:33

And this guy, this one guy, I remember him telling me, well, that's because someone within a family were Israelites and some weren't.

01:50:39

What are they doing? They're redefining how you become what a genealogy is and how you're an Israelite.

01:50:45

Right. But but it saves their system. Right. And that is what you see them doing on the flat earth.

01:50:52

They're going to find a way to save the system. Do they have a system that works? Yes. Everybody has a system that works.

01:50:59

OK, all every every group Mormons have a system that works.

01:51:05

Jehovah Witnesses have a system that works. Black Hebrew Israelites have a system that works. Flat earthers have a system that works.

01:51:11

Evolutionists have a system that works. It's just a wrong system. It's based on logical fallacies.

01:51:17

It's it's based on bad evidence. It's based on ignoring evidence. And what you end up seeing is only

01:51:23

Christianity can can deal with these things. Donald Richard says the more

01:51:29

I think of it, the more true Christianity aligns with reality. That's true. That's exactly true.

01:51:35

And that's what we see. But that process is present within Christianity.

01:51:43

Uh, you know, uh, different different errant viewpoints, whether it be word of faith or whatever.

01:51:50

They they they do the same thing. They'll they'll they'll look at certain verses out of context.

01:51:56

Uh, let's let's use a very easy one. Church of Christ, for instance. They will only refer to Acts 238.

01:52:04

Pretty much that's their entire argument. And they will harp and harp and harp and harp and harp and harp and harp in that and just ignore the rest of the word of God.

01:52:16

Other systems do this as well, where they tend to highlight things, emphasize things, ignore the verses that either serve as a problem or or try not just don't do any harmonization whatsoever.

01:52:35

I'm finding more and more that people want to do this in regards to how you are to call out false teachers.

01:52:41

That people are favoring the verses to say that we need to love and be gentle and stuff like that.

01:52:48

And emphasizing that and then ignoring the verses where clearly Paul, Peter, Jesus, just about every old time

01:52:57

Old Testament prophet all rebuke and call out the false teachers rather harshly by today's standards.

01:53:05

And they just have no category for it. So they just have to ignore it and emphasize the verse that they feel supports their theory.

01:53:14

And what we as Christians should do, and while I disagree with my

01:53:20

Calvinist brothers, Andrew does a good job of teaching this in his hermeneutics class that we need to try to find a way to harmonize the text.

01:53:27

That if you have a system of belief that forces you to dismiss or lower a form of verse that doesn't really suit what you want to be true.

01:53:41

And when somebody brings it up to you, you have no choice but to kind of reject it almost. That's a problem.

01:53:47

Now, if you can harmonize it, then we could get into a discussion of whether or not that harmonization is valid or not.

01:53:56

But yeah, we see the same from the scenario. So here's my theory.

01:54:02

I don't know if people would agree with this, but considering I'm speaking to fellow monologists,

01:54:07

I would guess that's probably going to be the case. I think this is inherently something that is part of the sin nature, that without Christ, people will fall to this particular issue, that they will select the evidence that they want, ignore the evidence that's inconvenient.

01:54:29

Well, I think real fast is any, and to the point, any system that changes or shifts your focus away from the gospel is pretty telling pretty immediately that that's a false system.

01:54:44

I mean, if the focus is in the wrong area, morning bells should be going off.

01:54:51

Yeah, yep. So, so with that, I mean, we're going to, we're going to close out tonight.

01:54:58

But folks, I want to, I didn't get a chance to mention the Christian podcast community is a community of Christian podcasts.

01:55:05

This is one of them. Apologetics Live is a podcast on the Christian podcast community. And you can go to christianpodcastcommunity .org

01:55:12

to see all of the growing podcasts. Go check it out. We're about to, we were supposed to do it this week.

01:55:20

It's probably going to be next week, come out with a brand new website that will look a lot better. And we've been waiting to add about six more podcasts that will be coming on.

01:55:30

And so they will be announced next week or whenever we can get this website going, the new one going, and then we're going to move over to there and start adding a lot more podcasts.

01:55:40

So check out christianpodcastcommunity .org and you'd be able to check out some good, good podcasts.

01:55:48

We're pretty picky. We don't let just anybody come in. And so that would be something that if you want to get some good podcasts, if you're listening to podcasts, if you don't listen to podcasts, you can even listen online to them.

01:56:04

Lots of good content. Go to christianpodcastcommunity .org and so we also would want to let you know that if you want to support

01:56:15

Striving for Eternity, we put this on. There's costs with it, but we don't charge, we don't do a thing where you have to pay to listen, things like that.

01:56:27

Try not to do that. But what we do want to do is we do want to try to do some things where we can get into churches and teach where many others won't.

01:56:43

We go to smaller churches. We go to churches that don't have the finances to bring speakers in, do seminars, do conferences with them, basically get them some teachings that their folks can grow as well, spiritually get them discipled.

01:56:57

And we can do that with your help if you go to strivingforeternity .org slash donate. If you go there, there's a list of all the things that you get for donating different gifts that we give.

01:57:09

So have that. That's all there. I do want to let you know on this show, I talked to Matt.

01:57:15

He's going to try to see when he can come back since at least he's pushing off his move a little bit.

01:57:21

And so he'll be moving later on in the year. So we might be able to get him coming back on soon. We hope.

01:57:27

I'm going to be reaching out to a pretty good sized atheist channel. They wanted to try and do some challenging of folks.

01:57:36

So they tried to do that on a platform where it really wasn't the best platform for it, but we are.

01:57:43

So hopefully we're going to get some debates going. Folks, if you know anyone that wants to debate, we could set those up.

01:57:52

Even Baptists and Lutherans can debate, although the Lutherans obviously are going to lose. But hey, we let them come in anyway.

01:58:00

I'm saying that because Rob's still here and listening in backstage and he'll have some comments in chat for me. But I think that we do set up some debates here and we want to try and do is answer questions.

01:58:13

So what we want you guys to do is come in Thursday nights with some questions you have. We really want this primarily to be more of an open dialogue, a show where we can answer your questions, challenges.

01:58:25

If folks want to challenge us, we're here for that as well. If you have unbelievers who you, you know, you have some unbeliever that is challenging you, invite them to come on in here and try to challenge us and we'll give answers.

01:58:40

All right. The goal of it is to show how apologetics can be done. That's why we're doing it.

01:58:46

That's the whole thinking behind this. And so we want to be able to basically teach how to do apologetics by watching it be done.

01:58:58

The difference is a lot of times we'll explain why we did what we did. So until next week,

01:59:05

I should have started by saying happy Halloween. No, no, no, no. Happy Reformation Day. Although it's already a day past for Andrew Down Under.

01:59:13

He had Reformation Day yesterday. It's already another day for him. But happy Reformation Day to everyone.

01:59:20

And we look forward to seeing you next week. Until then, strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God.