Dead Men Walking Podcast: Greg Moore & Jason Hamlin with the CrossPolitic Podcast Guys

Dead Men Walking

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Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location,

00:09

Dead Men Walking starts now. Well, hello, everyone.

00:20

Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking. I'm your host, Greg. And I'm Jason.

00:26

And this furry guy over here who needs to shave. Yeah, I do need a haircut, sir.

00:31

You do? I do. I do. I do. Now, listen, usually we do a little banter back and forth. I will not cut the beard, though, so don't ask. Oh, don't cut it. Yeah, don't ask.

00:37

No, you're like Samson. Yeah, yeah. You lose all your conservative powers. Everything. And reform the powers if you've got it.

00:43

We usually do a little banter back and forth, but we want to jump right into it because we have some special guests on the line that are calling in.

00:50

These guys are brothers in the Lord. I've been listening to their podcasts now for about four or five months, so I'm a newbie.

00:56

I know, Jason, you've been a little bit longer. Oh, yeah. You turned me on to them. We have Toby, Gabe and Chocolate Knox.

01:03

Can we call him Chocolate Knox? Yeah, ask him. Right? From CrossPolitan. You got it right. I got it right. Guys, how you doing?

01:10

Hey, great. Really good. Thank you for having us. I just got a question really quick. How many guns do you guys have in the studio?

01:16

Because I'm just judging by the sound of your voice, it sounds like you're in a room with lots of guns on the wall.

01:22

Hey, we don't talk about that around here. Oh, we do talk about that. I can't disclose that over the air.

01:27

I just purchased a few months ago my 19th gun. So, you know, it's growing.

01:34

I knew it. Only 19? Yeah, that's it. I'm very sorry to stereotype you guys. Sounds like my golf club.

01:41

As a black man, I shouldn't do that. Sorry. Knoxie, baby, you can stereotype me all you want when it comes to guns.

01:49

Absolutely. We do believe in God's guns and freedom. Oh, yeah. Maybe in that order too.

01:54

But yeah, so let's give a little intro to everyone listening. First of all, can you guys each go through, maybe give us a couple minutes of,

02:01

I don't know, whatever you want. Testimony, bio, a little bit about yourself. Well, I'm Toby Sumpter, a pastor at Christ Church here in Moscow, Idaho.

02:13

I've been a pastor for, oh, what am I going on now? 14 years,

02:19

I think. Wow. A couple of different churches before I'm here. You don't look a day over 50.

02:28

Thanks, Knox. Praise God. Thanks, always encouraging like that. I am married to Jenny, four kids, and I've been,

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I don't know what else I should. I'm a pastor's kid. My dad is a Presbyterian pastor, grew up in the church. Grateful for my dad.

02:47

I set a wonderful example, loving my mom, loving me, spanking me lots. Oh, praise God. And through my parents' faithfulness,

02:56

I came to know the Lord at a very young age. And don't remember a day when I didn't love

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Jesus. I came out to New St. Andrews College in Moscow, and I drank the

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Kool -Aid. So you know which bathroom was for which.

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You know who to use which bathroom. Yeah. Is that a low bar?

03:23

Greg's got some mix up in here too. We got drops, baby. That's my sound right there.

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Talk a little bit about me. Knox, you're on. Grew up in a Christian home, charismatic, holiness

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Christian home. And fell in love with the God of my parents at a very young age.

03:45

Moved to Minneapolis and started getting connected to Reformed theology through radio.

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So I listened to Todd Freo and ended up going to his church. And at that time, he got fired from preaching the gospel at his radio station,

04:02

KKMS. Wow. And started Way of the Master with Ray Comfort. And because I was there, had been working through audio engineering,

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I trained under Stevie Wonder's engineer in Minneapolis, Sparky. Say what?

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Did not know that. Yeah. So and got hired at Way of the Master to do audio engineering and production.

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And start producing Way of the Master radio with Todd. In touch, called Todd Freo and said, hey, we want you to do your radio show in Georgia for us for Family Net.

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So we moved to Atlanta in 2008, 2009. You want to get those tax revenues? No, this was before Tyler Perry started buying up everything.

04:38

Oh, man. Went down there and saw a video with, so we were already working kind of with Kirk Cameron, but I saw a video between Kirk Cameron and Darren Doan.

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And I was amazed at how Darren Doan gave Kirk Cameron a completely different image than what we were used to seeing and made him really gritty.

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And he did it just with the interview and some cameras. And so I got really interested in filmmaking and movies.

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And so I went to go work with Darren Doan for 10 days for a boot camp. I got hooked and left

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Wretched and wanted to do that at Wretched. Wretched wasn't ready to do that. And so I moved to, I thought

05:14

I was going to California for a few months. Ended up moving. Went up there for like three months because Darren said, hey,

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I'm moving to Idaho. Got there that night and was like, OK, well, we're going to Idaho. I didn't really know what was in Idaho.

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Got here and fell in love with the place, Moscow, Idaho. Yeah. And so I've been here in Moscow, Idaho for six years now.

05:33

Making films and got whelped into this crazy podcast with these guys.

05:38

So this question really quick is for Toby or Gabe. So which one of you pick up the names when Knox drops them?

05:47

The names? Yeah, OK. Name dropping! Come on! Just remember,

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I can edit out anything in post. I can make you sound funny. It's too early in the morning for that.

06:05

That's one o 'clock. It's one in the afternoon here. We're ready. We're rolling. That's nice. He's only drinking scotch right now.

06:14

This is radio. We have plenty of that over here, too. That's great.

06:21

I'm Gabe. I'm Gabe the Waterboy. I serve as a deacon at Christ Church. I moved to Moscow in 2002.

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I actually grew up in the promised land of Texas. I always feel weird, like, self -introducing myself.

06:34

What do you call it? Self -introducing. Toby, go ahead and do it. Self -introduce, self -announcing. Oh my gosh, he is a politician.

06:42

Hey, someone do a tight five on me. Do a tight five on me before I get on stage. And so, yeah, funny.

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I'm also running for county commissioner here in LaTox County. Really? Classic.

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I'm a public relations consultant, and that's who I am. I got a wife. Since Noctin talked about his wife and kids,

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I'll talk about mine. I have a wife and three kids, 10, 8, and 6, and they're just ballers.

07:10

I love them. Awesome. So let's get into the podcast a little bit, CrossPolitik. And this is for anyone.

07:16

I know we got three over here and two over here, so it gets a little crazy with five people on the line. But for anyone, give us a little explanation of the podcast, how it came to be, and what the theme and subject of it is.

07:29

Yeah. In about 2015, 16, we started

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CrossPolitik, and our goal was because we didn't think the church was doing a good job discipling

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Christians and how to think about specifically politics. That's our lane we tend to traffic in. True. We should just say this is all

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Gabe's fault. I was going to say, yeah, this is all Gabe's brainchild. When Gabe says we, he actually means

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I. What's wrong with you? That's Gabe. That's me. And so, long story.

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I mean, there's a long story to go there. But basically, Toby eventually agreed, and then it took us about three months to get

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Noct to agree to join in the podcast. Still regretting that situation. What?

08:14

Well, we had to bring David, we had to bring Noct into Pastor Toby's office to finally convince him.

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So we had a number of conversations. I cast out the demons. I called

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Noct all excited. Hey, man, I'm starting a podcast. And Noct was like, no, I'm not interested. So we eventually got

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Noct to come into the pastor's studio, and Noct agreed. And man, we dropped our first episode in September 2016, and it just slowly kind of rocketed.

08:45

It's a slow rocket. This is our birthday month. It's a slow rocket. It is. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow. So that's the lane we traffic in.

08:53

We want to bring, we want to declare the worship of Jesus and specifically into politics. And that's why we tend to have more political politicians on.

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Ted Cruz, Steve Day, you know, Ben Shapiro. We actually had this really cool

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Dr. Representative, John Deberry. Deberry, man.

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He crushed it. On Wednesday. He was awesome. That was an amazing show, guys. Seriously. Yeah.

09:17

More Deberry. More Deberry. Y 'all just let him talk, man. He just went on, man.

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It was great. Yeah, he was ready. Yeah. So it's very interesting because sometimes I feel like I grew up in the 80s, early 90s.

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Okay. I'm 39, so I'm right in that in -between stage, probably a Gen X, whether it be a Gen X or maybe Elder Millennium or something like that.

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I don't know. But I felt, you know, when I grew up early in kind of a legalistic church and a very

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Jerry Falwell, like we use politics to advance our policies and kind of, if you're, you know, right -wing

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Christian, this is the things you believe. But it was always separated. In my household, it was, you know, the two things you don't talk about at the dinner table is religion and politics.

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And those are the only two things I wanted to talk about as a kid my whole life. So it was very weird for me to then grow up and say, oh, these things overlap a whole lot.

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And as we go through, I mean, even since 2016, I'd say the last 10 years, we just keep seeing this overlap of both politics, theology, doctrine, religion.

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And I think it's so important for you guys to kind of, to kind of do that, to bring both in there, because sometimes we have some very scholarly

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Christians and some very political Christians, but they can't make the two work and they don't know, you know, should one influence the other should, you know, which one is the worldview that, you know, that I use in my civil life versus my kingdom life.

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Can you guys just talk about some of the things you've talked about or some of the, some of the subjects,

10:45

I guess, at the, at the top of your head that you really wanted to get, get the point across to your listeners about either politics or theology?

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Yeah, I think actually what, I mean, one of the really foundational things is actually breaking through that dichotomy that you just described.

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Yeah. So I think no matter what, what tradition you grew up in, I mean, I grew up in a conservative

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Presbyterian tradition. You know, you grew up in this, you know, Falwell tradition, Knox you grew up in the

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Pentecostal, but I think all of us have experienced that dichotomy you're talking about.

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And I think it's something that's just plagued the whole Christian, the evangelical church for the last,

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I don't know, a hundred, 150 years where we have essentially said, we've said that these, yeah, there's two, it's a, it's a, it's a perversion.

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There's sort of an old school two kingdom idea, but that, you know, sort of Calvin and Luther taught, which said that Jesus is

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Lord over both. And so both have to obey Jesus, which is fine. But I think that got distorted and perverted into a form of,

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I don't know, kind of a weird, weird sort of dispensationalism where you have, basically there's completely hived off things rather than being directly connected and united by the fact that Christ is

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Lord over all. So I think that would be the foundational thing was just saying, if Christ is Lord of all, then he's

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Lord on Sunday morning in church and he's Lord Monday morning at work. He's Lord on Wednesday night at the board meeting.

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He's Lord Friday morning at the, you know, in school and every everything in between. Yeah. And conduct yourself as such, right?

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Because I've, I've had this conversation quite a few times with some of my other board members, constituents at their door and they say, well, what do you believe?

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And I, and I usually start out and I say, well, first of all you have to realize that my worldview comes through the lens of, of what the Bible says.

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So every decision I'm going to be making on your behalf is, is through that worldview. And, and for, you know, in most people, 85 % of, you know, people in the

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United States identify themselves as Christian, whether they're actually regenerated, saved Christians, that that's another, you know, show.

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So when you say that, they go, oh, okay. But I don't, when, you know, when I've had a long form conversations with people and actually start to explore what that means, it's totally different than what they're thinking.

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You know, when you say you're a Bible believing Christian, even as a elected official or I'm also a real estate broker, they think maybe a few things.

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Okay. He tries to be honest. He tries to do the right thing. But then when you actually really get into it and you go, well, what does the word of God say about the, you know, baseline budgeting, right?

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And, and obviously it doesn't have those words in it exactly, but there's principles, whether you're reading through Proverbs or Job, or, you know, even

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Jeremiah, where they're talking about monies and parables in the new Testament, there are principles there that then guide you on how to make decisions.

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So I see it my whole life. I've seen that the two have been very married to each other because we live in this world.

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We're not of it, but we live in it. And it's, it's very hard to separate the two. So to see a podcast like what you guys do, which

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I think is very much needed because I have a whole bunch of political podcasts I listened to, and I have a whole bunch of scholarly theological podcasts

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I listened to, but to have the two subjects together and say, well, how does your theology and doctrine work out in everyday life?

13:59

And, oh, by the way, everything in the United States is now political, right? We're even seeing this with masks.

14:04

I mean, that that became a political issue to put a mask on or not. I know we were joking about it before the, you know, before we started.

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Where is my mask? You're not, isn't it? No mask. You're not allowed to come in with a mask. I'm not going to perpetuate the lie.

14:19

Okay. Well, a Ford, a Ford, I work at Ford Motor Company. I mean, every day I cannot get in the building until I have the mask on, you know, it's all.

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And there's a video camera that I got to get in front of every single day before I walk in. It's like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

14:35

So that's a good transition. I was interested because we're in Michigan, right? You're in Idaho. What's the situation like out there with the whole

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COVID thing? I mean, I haven't really been following every single governor and every single executive order that they're doing.

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We pretty much were in a pretty extreme lockdown with a very liberal governor here. And we're still in a lockdown on some, some stores and bowling alleys and things haven't opened.

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What's the situation out there if you guys don't mind talking about it for a few minutes. Well, I mean, I know this sounds random, but the largest business in my district is a bowling alley.

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I grew up in a bowling alley. Trying to get where you left it up in here, Jason. Yeah, right.

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That's too hot to bowling alleys. That's funny. Bars too, bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, those type of establishments that have gatherings.

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What is it like for you guys out there? Well, I'll just tell you last night, I went to Walmart and just going through the door, uh, secure, they've hired a security guard to make sure now that everyone has a mask on before entering.

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And before I can get through the door to go and shop, he is asking me and chasing me down to make sure

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I have a mask. Now I bought a mask and the mask I have has massive holes in it.

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So, because what I would, you know, they don't have any requirement for what a mask is as long as they cover her face. And so he was chasing me down and say,

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Hey, you got to put a mask on. So I pulled out my pocket, this airsoft mask that has these holes.

15:55

He's like, man, your mask, your mask has holes in it. I said, my mask works as good as yours does.

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And so leave me alone basically. And so, and since there's no rules on it, he kind of walked away like,

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I guess he's right. You know what I do. So honestly, in a lot of ways, I wish we were in South Carolina, South Dakota, because they're, they're, they're, they're actually fighting.

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They have a governor who's standing strong and it's a lady governor and it's depressing that we have a bunch of people in Idaho who claim to be conservative and who are

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Republicans and that are not allowing people to have their own freedom. So it's really disappointing, but there's some places in Idaho that are not having it at all.

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Idaho is a pretty conservative state. I think our, uh, our governor, um, wussed out initially, it was initially kind of being strong, got even praised by Trump early on for not shutting everything down.

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And then about two weeks later, caved and, um, I think, I think it's, you know, definitely been lighter than your governor in Michigan.

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Yeah. Not, not nearly as, as intense, but our city is a little blue dot in a red state.

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Um, we're, we're a university town. And so, and we have, we have a city council that basically wishes they were

17:13

Seattle or Portland city council. Yeah. They want to be like the cool kid. Their heroes are

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Seattle and Portland. And if we could get a few buildings burned down, they'd probably be happy. Wow.

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Yeah. And just for anyone listening, uh, when we're talking about this mask issue too, cause you always have to preference this, this day and age, look at,

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I'm not for anyone passing away. Any of my elders, any elderly people,

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I'm for safety and security, but it has to be within reason used with logic and used with facts.

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And when you look at the facts, it just doesn't support what we're doing. And like knock said, you know, my, my mask works as well as yours.

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So I kind of land on that side of look at I'm, I'm going to live in the trust of who

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Christ is. I'm also going to live in wisdom and discernment. Like Proverbs says, I'm also going to measure everything that comes before me and take it before the throne.

18:04

I just feel that you're perpetuating, you know, a falsehood when we're, when we're putting these masks on our face that, you know, 6 % people, 6%.

18:14

Yeah. Well, let me put it this way with the mask too. I mean, any mass study that has come out in the last three months,

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I don't believe. It's been politicized, you know, whatever, but there's historical, there's been a number of historical studies that go back to 2000, 2001, all the way through.

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And one of the studies have found that wearing cloth mask, which is the dominating mask that everyone is wearing could actually increase your chances in contracting a virus because it creates kind of a

18:44

West moist environment for things to cling to and everything. So, uh, and that's the predominant cost that everyone's wearing.

18:52

Can I just, let me just, okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Thank you. This is driving me.

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I am so sick of the master. This is driving me nuts. So let me try and put it this way for people. Okay. This is going to be a little crass, but I want you to think about this for a second.

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Think about a fart. Okay. A fart is the size of a beach ball.

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Okay. And I want to think about a virus as a grain of sand. Okay. When you have on your pants, you have on the same type of protecting.

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Okay. Same kind of potential. You have your pants and the cloth and then you have another garment before that.

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If you can smell it, the beach ball is getting through. You know, what's great.

19:33

Mine don't stink. He's making a, he's actually making a sound medical argument.

19:39

That's exactly right. It works every time. Oh yeah. It's a sound drop off.

19:51

No, you're, you're absolutely right. They don't work and you know, it's become political.

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But you know, to tie this actually back into the question about what cross falls. Greg doesn't know what's going on now.

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Now we're talking about parts. How do we bring this back to the gospel guys? Help me bring this back to the gospel.

20:11

I'm trying to bring this back to Jesus. Not a lot of guests have thrown me, but that one threw me. I don't know how he recovered from that, but go ahead.

20:20

Listen guys, let me talk about farts for a minute. Fool me once.

20:25

Shame on you. Go ahead, sir.

20:32

Bring us back home. This is the thing though. And then it sort of ties in, but, um, back to the question of, you know, what we're about as a, as a podcast, cross politic.

20:42

And I think similarly, what, what you're after as well as also is realizing that there is no part of life that's not religious.

20:53

And so it's just another way of getting at the same thing. And you said everything's being politicized, which is true, but actually what you're, what we're finding is that this politicization is actually highly religious.

21:05

Um, there there's, there's more, I mean, and so, so one of my deep concerns about the masking thing is that, um,

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I, I, I think there's probably some legitimate use of medical masks in some context, bacteria for something primarily for bacteria and so on.

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Um, and I, and science -based great use that and so on. But what's happened is it's actually become a symbol for solidarity with the state.

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And you see people going into these stores and it's almost like they're crossing themselves and dipping their finger in holy water.

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They put their covering, they put the covering on their face to go in to get the things and do the

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Holy thing. And the kind of offense that, that, that they have, if you don't do it, it's like you committed blasphemy.

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You've sinned against, uh, this, this religion of solidarity. And, and so I, you know, and then add to that, meanwhile, meanwhile, you know, black lives matter is having their worship services and burning down buildings and looting targets.

22:11

And now MLB and NFL and NBA start their seasons up. And what are they doing?

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They're kneeling down in a pseudo liturgical religious posture, holding some stupid black fabric across the field, which is again, like it's like their own rosary.

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And they're saying their hail Mary's they've got the hail Mary's on the backs of their jerseys. But what happens is that when you try to drive out religion, try to drive out

22:42

Jesus, it's not like there's actually, you don't leave a vacuum. There's not something left empty.

22:47

The gods rush in, the demons rush in, you leave it clean and swept and some of the religion takes its place because people are inescapably religious.

22:59

We will worship something, someone, it's just a question of who. And so our, our, the problem with our modern state is not that it's unreligious is that it's actually completely religious, but it's completely pagan.

23:11

Wow. Man, you just got me fired up between that and the organ for each brother. You're absolutely right though.

23:17

I mean, you are absolutely right. And I think that's what the pushback is from, from people within the

23:22

Christian community and against the woke Christianity. But I don't think that they can can say it as well as what you just said.

23:30

I think they go, I know there's something here. I know it's, yeah, it's freedom. It's liberty. It's this, but there's also, you know, some type of acquiescing and what you just said is the perfect example of, of what is happening.

23:41

There isn't a vacuum that happens when you remove Christ, something comes in and replaces it. And the statists and the liberals and the leftists, they have, they do have their own religion.

23:50

We see it in atheism as well, which is, I believe is a religion, the way it's treated and talked about. So no,

23:56

I mean, it's unbelievable. So this is the, so for anyone listening right now, this is the kind of stuff you're going to get on cross politic, which is why

24:02

Jason and I listened to the podcast and we love having you guys on here as we wrap this up. Can we talk about this, this conference, this that we are going to, we are going to be at now.

24:14

I haven't got my, I haven't got my invoice from yet, Gabe. But Jason brought this to me a couple of weeks ago, almost maybe three weeks ago.

24:26

And it wasn't on my radar, you know? But it, it, it looks,

24:32

Oh man, the speakers. Yeah. Yeah. We'll just let them, let them talk. I'm going to let you guys do it.

24:41

I was fine, but you know, as God has blessed us, we started a podcast network called the fight last piece network.

24:48

And we've been doing that for about a year and a half, two years, a couple of years now. So we have a network called the fight last piece network.

24:54

And, and out of that are six or seven shows on there. Yeah. Seven, seven, eight shows actually.

24:59

Out of that, we wanted to, this has been kind of one of our longterm goals. We've been discussing from several years.

25:06

Gabe's been trying to convince us to do a conference for years. Yeah. So I chose a COVID year. Let's do it.

25:15

So back, uh, so we decided, um, so we're throwing our first fight last piece annual conference in Nashville, Tennessee, uh,

25:23

October 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. And the goal of this conference is kind of similar to our whole vision of, of how we want the gospel to permeate everything, uh, and how everything is political.

25:33

And so, uh, one of our tagline, our tagline that, um, not came up with that. I think I helped with, uh, it's called a fight last piece.

25:42

That's kind of our, our tagline, go fight, laugh and feast. And we want that, that balance, because the church has, has forgotten what it means to fight like Christians, forgotten what it means to laugh, forgotten what it means to feast and drink wine and be married all to the glory of God.

25:56

And so we really want, um, that vision, uh, to, um, you know, really go forth.

26:02

We have a kind of a movement, a little bit that's kind of come around what we're doing. We really have a rowdy crowd.

26:09

Um, we were at G3 in, uh, we, we did a couple of live shows at G3 in Atlanta, Georgia, back in January.

26:16

And I think that was our first time to really see what kind of audience we attracted. And we had a little bit, we had this room about 350 chairs and there's about 500 people all sitting on the floor in the room.

26:30

It was a rowdy crowd. And so I think that's, I think that's a, yeah, we, you know, we really want people to engage the gospel with the world and we want them to fight.

26:39

And so this is what the conference is all about. We got speakers, pastor Doug Wilson's going to be speaking, Dr. Glenn Shuntine, Dr. George Grant, Rod Martin.

26:47

We got David Bonson coming in, Jeff Durbin coming in. Of course, pastor Toby's going to be speaking. And then we're going to do a live show on Saturday afternoon with the whole network on the stage.

26:57

It's going to be, it's going to be right. Oh, that's awesome. So what kind of stuff can we expect besides the general fight love feast?

27:03

Are we, are, because I love your promo. First of all, a few of the promos that I've seen on social media, it's like, and I, and you know,

27:11

I'm paraphrasing here. It was like, this isn't your normal conference. We're not going to bore you to death with all this stuff.

27:16

And I laughed when I, when I watched the promo, I went, Oh my gosh. Yeah. I want to be there. You know, this is the kind of stuff

27:22

I'm talking about, you know, talking about deep issues, but in a way that resonate with me, are we, is this a breakout session, a conference type thing, or is this a, what's, what's kind of the format?

27:34

Have you figured that out yet? Yeah, no, no breakout sessions. Everyone's going to be together. It's a family integrated conference.

27:41

Okay. And one of the, yeah, one of the things I think that has bothered me over the years is conferences.

27:46

You know, the kind of typical evangelical conferences you go here, it's a topic on worship or sanctification, all, all good things, of course, but it's presented in a way that's benign and doesn't really change my life.

27:59

It doesn't really change the way I think about engaging the world with the gospel. And so most evangelical conferences are just, um, largely stuff you should be getting from your home pastor.

28:10

You know, we want this conference to be a conference where subject matter expertise are really coming in and exhorting us and teaching us how to apply the word of God, to politics, media, to education, to business, and to the world.

28:22

And so, um, our conference is not going to be boring and you're going to, hopefully Lord willing, get punched in the face a little bit through.

28:28

You forgot the beer and psalms. And we're starting to conference is kicking off with beer and psalms on Thursday night.

28:33

We got punched for the kids. And so the 7pm conference kicks off with beer and psalms.

28:38

And that's the other thing is, you know, um, alcohol is dangerous. The gospel is dangerous and we want to bring those two together.

28:45

I'm getting to the point. I'm getting to the point now that I'm starting not to trust a warrior that doesn't sing psalms. I don't, if a guy who's in battle who doesn't sing psalms,

28:55

I think he's lacking something. And so having psalms there, um, it is the worst songs of the church.

29:01

And the fact that we don't do good in battles because we don't sing the word of God, it doesn't do well richly in us that way.

29:07

And so it's so funny. Cause I find myself when I get in because of our church and the psalms things that we have here,

29:12

I find when I get into the thickest part of battles, now psalms start to come to the top and it's taken six years for that to happen.

29:20

But I realized as I'm singing those psalms, the joy of the Lord and the battle has become way more clear to me.

29:28

And we're able to fight with joy. The psalms are full of fighting and, um, you know, there's, there's lament, there's praise and so on.

29:37

But if you're singing and praying the psalms regularly, um, when you have enemies, that's not weird.

29:44

When people are writing smear articles about you in the local newspaper, it's not weird.

29:50

It's like, you know, Oh yeah, this is, the psalms are all about this and you're asked. And, and I think we, we, we know,

29:57

I mean, one of our burdens that, and this is something that Gabe has pounded since the beginning is that we believe fundamentally, um, that the, the weakness, uh, and the failure we see around us in this country, it lays at the feet of the church.

30:14

The church has failed to fight. And now we have, um, you know, people who, who basically think that, um, it's the best gospel now, the gospel.

30:24

Yeah. The church is not essential. You have, you're free to go to church or not go to church. Um, it's, um, and, and basically they've, they've just, um, laid down and no wonder.

30:34

Um, we're not, we're getting trampled under foot. And so we want this conference to be a rallying point.

30:42

Um, we, you know, we thought we talked sometimes about who we are. We're kind of like Sherwood forest. Yeah. Um, and, um, and so we know there are people listening to us and watching us all over the country who are tempted to think, man, am

30:53

I crazy? Right. And we want them to gather with us and say, no, no, actually you're the same one.

30:59

Um, everyone around you, everyone around you has gone mad. That's right.

31:04

Um, but, but here's, here's sanity. You're right. Um, stay cheerful. Um, and we want to have a huddle.

31:10

We want to have encouragement, uh, feasting, joy, laughter, um, punch in the face, give you some good, um, tools, some weapons for the fight, and then send you back home to make a ruckus for the kingdom.

31:22

Oh, that's so awesome. It's, it's time to break believers out of their comfortable lives is, is what is what the problem is.

31:29

You know, even on one of your most more recent episodes with pastor Doug Wilson, and he, I think it was the ride

31:34

Sally ride episode where he's talking about, I can't wait to read that. I can't wait for my listeners to go

31:41

Google that and go what, but the pastor wrote that. It's good. It's good.

31:46

Exactly. Really good. It's a great concept. It really is. Uh, and I'm definitely going to pick up the book, but, uh, when he's talking about the frog in the pot,

31:54

I mean, that's what the Christian church has become. We're comfortable. We have freedoms and liberties. We've become comfortable in lazy in Western Christianity to where we've just let the culture consume us.

32:04

We acquiesce to it. We go, ah, we give a shoulder shrug and they probably shouldn't do that, but you want to what

32:09

I still got my boat and my house and my kids. And I still go on vacation once a week and I'm good.

32:14

I'm living the American life when in fact we need to be woken up from that slumber. And I think it's such a great thing to have a conference like this, like where you are out front, like we're rowdy.

32:24

We're we're, we're going to be bold. We're going to hear things that actually affect our life, whether it be theologically or politically.

32:31

So I'm very excited for the conference. I know we're both excited to be there. And you guys, you're going to have to help me out getting a

32:38

Greg on the post mill board. Cause we got, we got four against one in a week link in there somewhere.

32:47

Was this the whole reason you suggested this? That's why I had him on. Yeah. I need you to go post mill man.

32:53

That was a post mill intervention? He's not pre, he's not pre -trib though. So that's not what he's saying.

32:59

You know, I'm not pre -trib I'm still undecided when we had dr. Sam storms on, he almost had me convinced of a millennialism.

33:05

I don't know where I'm at right now. I'm still, I'm still prayerfully considering that with the Lord. But why don't you give everyone a place to go or maybe the dates and who they need to contact if they want to attend or even be an exhibitor there.

33:18

Right. You guys can have booths there for people as well. I think we're going to be there as dead men walking. So tell the listeners a little bit about that, where they can go and things like that.

33:27

Yeah. Our website is fight last piece .com. So fight last piece .com and you can follow all the links to get to the conference and to register.

33:35

And again, the conference is October 1st through the third door, walk up to the door.

33:42

As long as our venue can hold the capacity of we'll get people in the door. So we want to pack it out.

33:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyone listening, I highly suggest go to that website, check it out, hit them up online.

33:57

Toby, Gabe, Knox, any last words before we finish up here? Go fight, laugh and feast and baptize them babies.

34:04

Nope. And be Post Mill. There we go. Be Post Mill, baby. All right, Toby, Gabe.

34:10

And baptize babies. It's the same thing. Same thing. Well, Toby, Gabe, Knox, thank you so much for coming on, giving us a little bit of, you know, some information about your world, your podcast, this conference coming up and you know, shooting the breeze with us.

34:26

We really appreciate it. We're excited to see you guys down in Nashville the 1st through the 3rd in October.

34:32

And we do appreciate you guys taking out time to be on the podcast guys. Thanks for listening. Always absolutely make sure that you, you know, you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, any social media platform is going to be dead men walking.

34:46

Make sure you five stars leave review always helps with the algorithm on Apple and Spotify and Google and all that good place.

34:53

All those good places. And guys is always thanks for listening and God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com.