April 16, 2020 Show with Dr. F. LaGard Smith on “Hoarding vs. Prudent Preparation in Times of Panic”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 16th day of

April 2020 and I'm delighted to have back on the program an old

friend of mine whom I have known going back to the late 1980s and

during my employment at WMC a radio a Salem media affiliate before I

even had my own talk show.

I I was Getting interviews booked With dr. F.

Lagarde Smith on Andy Anderson live and other places.

In fact, I was instrumental in getting him interviewed on truths that transform hosted by D James Kennedy

at one point and Dr. F. Lagarde Smith is former district attorney in

Oregon and a former administrator for the Oregon State Bar in Portland a former faculty

member at Pepperdine University School of Law in Malibu, California focusing on criminal law criminal

procedure trial practice and law and morality.

Former scholar and residents for Christian studies at Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tennessee and

Former visiting professor of law at Faulkner University's Jones School of Law in Montgomery,

Alabama.

He's the author of some 30 books and we are going to be addressing today hoarding

versus prudent preparation in times of panic and will also be broadening that theme to a

Christian response to a Pandemic and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron

radio.

Dr. F. Lagarde Smith.

It is great to have you back on the program in fact.

You know some of my listeners my diehard listeners who know that I am a thoroughgoing Calvinist

might be surprised when I when they hear about me interviewing Someone who does

not hold to my positions on those important doctrines but I think

that You put it very well when you recently Wrote a

commendation for my program.

That I just love it's one of my favorite commendations that I've ever received from anyone and if

you don't mind I'm just going to read that commendation so those of my

listeners who Might be more Sectarian over these issues and and are upset

that I might be interviewing somebody that disagrees with me on these things.

I just love this commendation.

Chris and I go back many years Discussing books along a broad spectrum of topics whether

biblical ethical social and even law related.

One interview was on a matter of doctrine about which Chris and I have decidedly

opposite views.

Giving proof positive credence to iron sharpening iron.

Despite whatever Theological differences we have our shared faith in Christ and passion for truth

has been a blessing and encouragement Even beyond the interviews leading to a lasting personal

friendship.

The format of the program is unhurried unhurried thoughtful calm and

ironic is uniquely suited to Searching for truth.

Where else can one find the luxury of explaining one's thinking and writing without hype

and ego?

Getting in the way and who else has such sheer crazy fun in the midst

of serious Dialogue, it's always a joy to spend time with Chris and his loyal listeners

always an honor my brother.

And I thank you very much for that commendation, which I treasure dr. Smith

and The the book that we are that we that you mentioned here or the

topic that you mentioned here is obviously your book Troubling thoughts for Calvinists,

and I'm so glad that you at least included the subtitle and the rest of us.

But thanks for being on the show and that has nothing to do with our topic today.

As I mentioned earlier, we are discussing hoarding versus prudent preparation in times of panic and we're going to be delving into

other matters that involve a Christian's response to something like we are

experiencing globally Lagarde before I do that.

I want to give you the opportunity to plug a book that I have already interviewed

you on.

But it's since it's one of your latest books if not your latest book.

I thought I'd give it some more publicity.

Darwin's secret sex problem.

Exposing evolution's fatal flaw the origin of sex.

Why don't you let our listeners know a little bit more about that book before we go into our main theme today?

Well,

if

anybody

wants

to

listen

to the

interview,

in

fact,

I

think

we

did

more

than

one

on

this

book.

You could go to after the show's over iron sharpens iron radio .com and Click past

shows podcast type in the search engine lagarde Lagarde and

The interviews that I've conducted with dr. F lagarde Smith will come up and you can also

find out more about the book at lagarde's website

lagarde Smith comm Lagarde Smith comm.

That should be easy enough for you.

Well this.

These are some really weird and crazy Times we're living in as you know and

Seeing the grocery stores with barren shells.

Reminded you of a trip in 1972 To what was then

Leningrad now st. Petersburg behind the Iron Curtain.

If you could tell us about that.

How do you get away with selling pre -owned toilet paper.

Yes,

yes

it is

Cotswolds

in

England, so

you you suspected that there would be some kind of shortage of toilet

paper before anything even happened.

Yes, in fact when I was Speaking interviewing our mutual friend.

Dr. Latane see Scott yesterday.

Joseph in the Old Testament not not the Husband of

Jesus's mother, but Joseph in the Old Testament now.

He was an example of a prepper wasn't it?

Yes, he was.

By the

way, I I

can't

resist telling you this joke, I don't know if you've heard it but a.

Man says to his wife honey the way the world the way the world is going these days

I've got some news for you.

We're going to sell All of our furniture and earthly possessions

we are going to turn all of our cash and savings into gold bars and

we are going to exhaust all of our financial resources otherwise into

building a bomb shelter and we are going to stock that bomb shelter with

all of the material and Items that we will need to survive for at least a decade

Once the nuclear holocaust or whatever peril awaits this planet

Surpasses and we are able to emerge Eventually from this bunker

with having survived all those years unlike many of our neighbors and.

The wife says well suppose this calamity this this nuclear holocaust Never

happens.

And he says stop being such a pessimist.

And I have friends who are preppers and A lot of folks make

fun of preppers and I think that is a sad thing when they do.

But at the same time just like with everything else a lot of it has to do whether

something is Obsessive or bizarre or

sinful.

Doesn't it a lot of it have to do with?

The Motivations and the manner with which one Takes on an endeavor like

that you could.

You could you if you are overrun if you are overwhelmed and and ruled

by paranoia and Fear that is not the state of mind of a

Christian is it or it should not be.

No,

I

think

that some

of the

dilemma

lies

in

this

whole

topic

when

it comes to.

Hoarding versus preparation and being a prepper Has

to do with when one crosses the line Between

a rightful Priority in one's life to put your own

wife and children in top priority And

your neighbors second.

I think that that is a right thing to do.

If someone were to give away all their earthly Possessions and empty their bank account to give to the poor and yet

His own wife and children were starving.

That would not be appropriate.

In fact the Bible I believe condemns that kind of a thing not that that exact scenarios in the Bible.

But if you are not providing for your family You are worse than an infidel.

But at the same time it's there's a fine line between compassion and generosity

and selflessness and humility and putting your neighbor first

And then crossing that line.

And I want you to address some of those issues.

When we return from our first break if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for dr. F. Lagarde Smith.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life bringing so many

uncertainties.

When will it end?

Why do disasters like this happen?

How do we deal with anxiety fear and the light?

Will join us each Friday on the program iron sharpens iron with your host Chris Arnson

and Pastor Joe Jackowitz as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of

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Tune in at first love radio dot org.

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about Pandemics and how we should respond.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson.

If you just tuned in our guests today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go as dr f lagarde

Smith and We are discussing not only Hoarding

versus prudent preparation, but we have a broader topic basically involving

Christians response to a crisis like the one that we are experiencing globally with

Coronavirus pandemic.

If you have a question, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and Before I continue with my own

thoughts and questions for you.

We do have an anonymous listener who wants to know.

When do you think you have crossed the line from sinful obsession?

Into sinful obsession when you started perhaps just with a prudent understanding of

preparation.

Well,

thank

you

anonymous

and

we

have.

Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Who says how do you respond to the one who may rebuke his

prepper friend?

By using Matthew chapter 6 and 25 through

34.

Therefore I say to you don't worry about your life what you'll eat or what you'll drink or

about your body and What you'll wear.

Isn't Life more than food and the body more than clothes.

Look at the birds in the sky.

They don't so.

They don't sow seed or harvest grain or gather crops into barns yet Your heavenly

father feeds them.

Aren't you worth much more than birds?

So Basically.

You

get the

gist

there

from

that

portion

of

the text,

how

do

you.

How

do

you

respond.

Well,

thank

you Harrison.

Let's take a shift here since I want to make sure that we make use of the legal

mind that God has given you This these are some frightening days because

we are seeing the government flexing its muscles.

We are seeing Particular Politicians especially doing

that and Even though the first person that I heard about

first minister so -called that I heard about who was fined

for refusing to Enforce a ban on public gathering in his church

was a renowned notorious Infamous heretic Rodney Howard Brown,

which kind of softened the fear for me when I heard about his problems with the law

over that.

We have to remember that secular governments aren't going to be favoring

One group over another over theological differences.

They're not going to be Saying that all these Christians are more biblically Orthodox

than Rodney Howard Brown, so we're going to cut them some slack.

Are you as concerned as I am?

Witnessing some of this.

Well,

okay

in fact a

laguard.

We're

gonna

pick up right where

you

left

off on the

quarantine

when we

return from our

midway break

and.

Folks please be patient with us because the midway break of this show is always longer than the others because grace life

radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show

because of the FCC regulations of Localizing their programming to

Lake City, Florida.

So therefore, please be patient with us as we take this longer break.

Use the time wisely by writing down information Provided by our advertisers because while they air their own local

public service announcements and other things we air our globally heard commercials.

So write down as much of the information as you can that our sponsors provide

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God willing and enable us to remain on the air.

Also write down questions for dr. Efflegard Smith Regarding Christians response to the

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr Efflegard Smith right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Virus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life bringing so many uncertainties.

When will it end?

Why do disasters like this happen?

How do we deal with anxiety fear and the like?

We'll join us each Friday on the program iron sharpens iron with your host Chris Arnzen

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This is pastor Bill Sousa Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron

sharpens iron radio Financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers Which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of all which we strive is the glory

of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee in Franklin is just south of Nashville Maybe ten minutes

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I'm dr.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours With

about an hour to go a little less is Dr. Efflegard Smith.

He is a former faculty member at Pepperdine University in the

School of Law and he's an author of approximately 30 books before we return to our

discussion on Hoarding versus prudent preparation and

other Christian responses to something like a pandemic that we are every with that everybody in

the world is facing right now.

Before we return to that discussion We just have some important announcements to make that we hope that

you Take heed to first of all, we are still planning to have our Iron

Sharpens Iron radio free spring pastors luncheon right here in Carlisle,

Pennsylvania on Friday, May 29th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At the Bon Giorno

conference center and This is a free event for men in

ministry leadership men only and God willing we are going

to move forward with this unless there is some unforeseen Continuing on

bans on public gatherings.

I have great confidence by that time.

We will be able to Conduct the luncheon, but obviously only God knows for certain.

But this is going to be an exciting event because this is the first time ever that I have had the

privilege of having a dear friend of mine who I've known since 1995 be the

keynote speaker at the luncheon and That is dr. Conrad and Bayway Pastor of

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And I'm not exaggerating when I say that at least that I've heard of course.

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had more friends who were pastors than the average Christian because of my work in Christian radio?

And she suggested one Christmas that we forego Giving gifts to each other and that we use that money

to treat my pastor friends to lunch well that Began in the 1990s and it

grew to be so large.

We required corporate sponsorship for it and We conducted those together every

year once a year during the Christmas season until my precious wife went home to be with

Christ for eternity and Then after a Several year hiatus from

doing the radio show and after moving to Pennsylvania from New York I relaunched the luncheons and have

been doing them twice a year now one in the winter one in the spring every

year since 2015 so I hope that you can attend.

It's absolutely free of charge.

Send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put pastors luncheon in the

subject line it's absolutely free of charge and even if you're pessimistic that we're going to be holding this due to

the hysteria going on.

I Would strongly urge you to send me a registration anyway, because even if we have to move

the date You will we will have your contact information to let you know of the new date

and so on.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And.

By the way folks.

Tomorrow.

Pastor Joe Jackowitz the founder of first love radio who live streams this program.

And also a pastor of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, California.

He is going to be joining us again as he does every Friday to give us an update

on the coronavirus and to give us some Thoughtful biblical reflections on this

situation.

So make sure you tune in tomorrow for Joe Jackowitz is return to the program.

Also folks, even though I really dislike doing this It's something that I have to do because we are

in urgent need of your donations.

As many of you may have heard me say before during this Pandemic

we have lost at least temporarily two of our largest advertisers because their

businesses were hit very hard by the hysteria going on and

therefore they had to temporarily withdraw from financial support until they get back

on their feet and.

So I'm asking you if you love this show to help us recover from that financially.

If you love the show, of course, and if you don't love it, I'm not sure why you're listening.

But please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support to then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that and you could also if you prefer snail mail.

You can send in a check made out to iron sharpens iron radio to the address that appears on the screen when you click support.

The iron sharpens iron radio .com the two things that I try to remind you of every day when I make these

appeals is That I never want anybody Siphoning money away from their regular giving to the

local church where they are a member in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio.

Please never do that, especially during this time when churches are really hurting badly financially.

Due to the fact that people are not gathering physically in the corporate worship and many of them

Either are waiting to get back to the the physical corporate gathering before they give their their

offerings or They have been hit so hard themselves losing their livelihoods perhaps or being laid off

that they can't afford to give to the churches.

So, please don't damage your church financially by giving to us and please

don't put your family in financial jeopardy By giving to iron sharpens iron radio.

Those two things are commands of Scripture.

Providing for the church and your family providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of

Scripture.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands you have extra money

gaining interest and Perhaps you even have extra money because you're not going to sporting events.

You're not going out to fancy restaurants.

You're not going to concerts.

You're not going to theatrical performances.

There are many things that people Love to do that used to do them regularly that they haven't been

because of the bans on public gatherings.

Well, please if you love the show consider using some of that money to help iron sharpens iron radio

remain on the air.

That's iron sharpens iron radio calm click support.

Then click click to donate now.

And if you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is You're promoting is compatible with what we believe here

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Then we would be thrilled to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we are in urgent need of your

advertising Dollars, so send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

You don't have to believe exactly as I do but you need to be promoting something That is at the very least compatible with what we believe

that's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question.

Dr. F. LaGarde Smith and We are discussing not only hoarding versus

prudent preparation but the more general theme of a Christian's response to a pandemic or global

crisis and That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and before the break LaGarde.

You are just starting to get into the very appropriate and

lawful and right Duty and role and power of the secular

government.

To be involved in quarantine for the greater good of the population.

Obviously

first

by making

sure

that

they're

empty.

Oh, no, no, no, we just leave people in there.

Especially since wine seems to be a priority with the government being a necessary thing.

I.

Understand and I agree with that.

But

we're

not

talking

here

about

saying

in

defiance

of

surely

that

can't

play.

It's a very good segue here.

I'm gonna play a clip from my favorite Program on the Fox

News Network.

Although I don't always agree with Tucker Carlson.

I I don't even know why I was amazed when I heard this because I don't really expect much

of elected government officials.

But this is a clip from Tucker Carlson's interview with the governor of New

Jersey Phil Murphy, here we go.

That decision as I noted before 15 Congregants at a synagogue in New Jersey were arrested and

charged for being in a synagogue together now.

The Bill of Rights as you well know protects Americans right and shrines their right

to practice their religion as they see fit and to congregate together to assemble peacefully.

By what authority did you nullify the Bill of Rights in issuing this order?

How do you have the power to do that?

That's about my pay grade Tucker.

So I wasn't I wasn't thinking of the Bill of Rights.

Who we did this.

We went to all.

First of all, we looked at the day like it's a science and it says people.

People.

So, there you go an elected government official who reached the position of

governor of an entire state.

Wasn't even thinking of the Bill of Rights at all because it was above his pay grade.

That to me is is fairly astonishing.

And

of

course

when

Jesus

healed

on

the

Sabbath he

was

not

in reality.

Violating any law of his father these were added

Restrictions that the Pharisees came up with and so on.

He did not sin when he was healing someone.

But the the issue is further complicated because it also gets involved in

Is what the government telling us actually true is the severity of

what is going on Strong enough to perpetually

refrain from Corporate worship and how long are we to?

As Christians allow this to continue it's not as if and I don't mean to undermine the seriousness

of what's going on and I don't mean to be callous or Indifferent about the lives

that have been lost and so on but at the same time We're not talking about the black plague or something

as severe as one of those Catastrophes from the past

Where many many more times people suffered and died than what the globe is

experiencing now.

And how long are we supposed to?

If they were I don't believe this will happen, but I could be wrong and it could happen in the future.

I don't.

What what would we do if they just perpetually said in fact?

To prevent further spread of disease.

We think it's best that that no churches Gather

on Sunday, especially in large numbers.

I mean, where do we draw the line with that?

We

have

CJ

from

Lindenhurst,

Long

Island,

New

York.

Who says.

Well, how would you respond to the argument that the first century Christians?

Put the lives of their members at great risk.

Just by sheer virtue of existing in worshiping because of the Christian Church being outlawed

eventually.

We

have

Johnny

in

Queens,

New

York,

he's

asking

about

something

that

you

did

touch

upon.

But perhaps you have a More elaborate answer to this.

Would the recent cases of ticketing Drive -thru parishioner worshiping inside their

enclosed vehicles be an overreach Of local government.

Should Christians view this as discrimination or is the law acting legally and without partiality?

Unfortunately,

yes.

Yeah.

Wow.

You lived across the street from a lot of people even Shirley MacLaine.

Well,

thank

you.

Johnny in Queens, New York.

And keep listening to iron trip enzyme radio and spreading the word.

About the program.

In New York City and beyond we have to go to our final brief.

Final break.

I should say this is much More brief than the last break.

So don't be worried.

And if you have a question, I would submit it immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life bringing so many

uncertainties.

When will it end?

Why do disasters like this happen?

How do we deal with anxiety fear and the light?

Will join us each Friday on the program iron sharpens iron with your host Chris Arnzen

and pastor Joe Jackowitz as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of

life's related issues.

Tune in at first love radio dot org.

That's first love radio dot o -r -g.

Each Friday at 1 p .m. Pacific 4 p .m. Eastern.

That's iron sharpens iron on first love radio dot org.

Fridays 1 p .m. Pacific 4 p .m Eastern to hear what the Bible has to say

about pandemics and how we should respond.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues Some of my

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call 631 -696 -5711.

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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We are now back with Dr. Efflegard Smith and Johnny in Queens, New York has a follow -up question

should those Christians Consider taking legal action.

Possibly class action suit as a stand for righteousness.

What would be the likely outcome?

Thank

You

Johnny

and

we

have.

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who says I was of the understanding that the government

could not prohibit Gatherings of church congregants

without violating the Constitution itself.

Perhaps what if the church was being treated unreasonably and

they did Follow the guidelines that everybody follows in grocery stores like

remaining Six feet apart and so on because not every church is a megachurch with thousands of people.

In fact that I would think that they would be in a minority those very large megachurches where people are packed

in like sardines.

So what about that where the government is really as you were saying before overreaching when it came to the drive -thru?

Yes, that's very understandable obviously, but there is a

Certain What's the I hate to use the word fear but

that those who are in secular authority over

us are having their own litmus test of determining what is safe and healthy and

I'm talking about beyond the obvious Where life is threatened because of a real

situation with a pandemic or plague.

But if this just gives way or sway To the

government flexing its muscles even more it is a matter of concern to me and people that I know and love.

Yeah.

Yes,

well

old

friend.

We're out

of

time.

I am looking forward to having you back at some point in the future and I want our listeners to know that Dr. F.

LaGarde Smith's website again is LaGarde Smith calm.

LaGarde Smith calm.

Thank you so much for being on the show.

And if you could hold on I want to give you a proper goodbye off the air.

I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than

you are a sinner.