Jeremy Carl Confronts Vivek Ramaswamy

Conversations That Matter

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A majority of history class about America, when we're learning about America or even European nations, is focused on slavery and segregation and wrongs done to Native Americans in colonization.

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These young white men are built up their entire lives being told how awful all these white men, all their ancestors were.

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And so you get a lot of, you know, pushback. You have the transgender ideology, extreme feminism being pushed to them, which naturally they're going to resist.

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And so I think what you get is a lot of resentment, but I don't think most of them know why.

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Welcome once again to the

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Conversations That Matter podcast. I'm your host, Jon Harris. Well, the Zoomer generation, of course, has been in the news quite a bit because let's just say the boys are a little more right wing than the girls.

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At least that's what the stats seem to indicate to us. Now, there's a lot of other factors we can discuss in relationship to that.

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But I will tell you, there was a situation that happened not too long ago that might reinforce, if it's representative, that line of thinking.

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And that is a clip, I believe I actually played it on the podcast over a week ago, of a young man named

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Jeremy Carl. He is a junior in high school. He's 17 years old and he is at a

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TPUSA event talking to Vivek Ramaswamy. And we're going to talk about him and to him, but if you want to check him out,

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I just want to mention this up front. It is at WFCJRC, WFCJRC on X.

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You can check him out there. So without further ado, welcome to the podcast. Jeremy Carl, appreciate having you.

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Hi, thanks for having me. And some of the folks in the audience would recognize your name just because you've actually had your dad on before and he's wrote the famous book now about the unprotected class and what's happened to the descendants of Europeans in this country and how the civil rights legislation and all of that has affected them.

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But, you know, you had this great moment and I just want to highlight it where you questioned

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Vivek Ramaswamy and it was really piercing. You did a great job. You went back and forth with them. Before we play the clip, were you nervous?

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Initially, I was nervous, but obviously just through prayer and meditation on the

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Lord's word, I was able to kind of calm myself or the Lord helped me to be calm in that moment.

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Was this in Montana? Where did this happen? Yeah, it was at Montana State University here in Bozeman, which is a city in the southwest corner of the state.

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It's one of the more culturally influential cities in Montana. So, yeah. And I don't know how far that is in relation to where you live.

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Did you have to travel to get there to question him or did you just happen to be there and you decided to go to the mic?

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No, I live in Bozeman, so it was like a 20 minute drive to the event. So, yeah, it was right, right in my backyard,

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I guess. Yeah. And so you were there, you were, I'm assuming you were in support of, I don't know if he was the only speaker, but you were there as a spectator and then you just thought you would ask a challenging question.

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Yeah, I mean, I kind of went with the intention to challenge Vivek. I was there to support the conservative movement as a whole.

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Our governor was there as well, and I was there to support him, but not there to support Vivek, I would say.

03:29

Gotcha. Okay, so you did actually have an intention when you went to the event. You wanted to ask him the question we're going to play in a moment.

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Yeah, essentially, I was, I mean, I hate to say it, but I was almost looking for war. Like I wanted to kind of embarrass him almost on a big stage, you know, like let the truth be said.

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Now, some people might say that's a little mean. I say, you know, here's what I'd say.

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It's like, it's, it's out of love. It's love for the people of America, love for him that the gospel is declared to him and love for the people of America that, you know,

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I would call out one of our leaders, especially one of our conservative leaders on kind of one of his issues. So yeah, people would say it was mean, you know, a lot of people would also have been saying that about Jesus when he was doing what he did.

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So good point. Good point. Well, we are going to play the clip. And today on the 20th of October, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but it's

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Diwali. It's a Hindu holiday. So I don't know if Vivek has made a post about that, but I know some other, he has?

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Yeah. Him and Cash, all of our, you know, our good buddies on the right, you know. Our Hindu representatives.

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Yeah, our government workers. Okay. Well, maybe we could talk about that too.

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I don't know a lot about that particular holiday, but it seems like I now have to educate myself about these things because it's becoming so part of the multicultural

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America that's emerging. So here's the clip. And of course, you've probably not seen this,

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I don't know how many times, but let's see, how long is it? It's like, okay, it's only like three, a little over three minutes.

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So we'll just play the whole thing here. Hi, Vivek, you would profess to be a conservative, correct? I'm a proud conservative.

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If you are an Indian, a Hindu coming from a different culture, different religion than those who founded this country, those who grew this country, built this country, made this country the beautiful thing that it is today.

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What are you conserving? You are bringing change. I'll be 100 % honest with you. Christianity is the one truth.

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Jesus Christ is God and there is no other God. He is part of the Holy Trinity and any other God is a demon and it's false.

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How can you represent the constituents of Ohio? We're 64 % Christian. If you are not a part of that faith.

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Like I said, I'm not here to justify my faith to you any more than you are to me. But what I do share is the value set this country was founded on.

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And I think that it's really important that we not reinvent the founding of this country and what it was actually all about.

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The founding fathers, they had an opportunity to write a religious code just like most other nations in human history.

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I found it either on a monarch or a particular faith or a particular lineage.

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That's where most nations in human history are founded. Not America. We are the only country in the human history where there is a set of civic ideals that brought together a divided polyglot group of people 250 years ago, where freedom of conscience was a core belief set of our founding fathers.

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All the way to Thomas Jefferson. You know who he is? You know what document he signed? The Declaration of Independence.

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Yeah. And what was his belief system? He was a deist. He was a deist. Our third president, the man who signed this nation into existence was a deist.

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You know who Benjamin Franklin is? Yes. Do you know what his belief system was? He was Quaker, yes. He was also a deist similar to Thomas Jefferson.

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So what I think that we often do is we talk about US history. I have a better suggestion. It's actually consider reading

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US history. Consider studying US history. Learn the founding of our country. And that's what made our founders,

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I believe, the most extraordinary people known to the history of man. We would do well to actually respect their legacy rather than to reinvent some sort of imitative version of every other nation in human history.

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That's not us. I'm sorry. That's what makes America great. And that's why I am proud to be an American. This is the country that I will die fighting for if I have to because it stands for those ideals.

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And that's why we're here. Right. So keep praying and pledge allegiance to the flag, my friend. Thank you.

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Of course, Christ is King. But my response to that would be the same way that my church would let a practicing

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Hindu, a practicing Muslim, a practicing Jew come in and enter and worship with us on a Sunday morning.

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That person would not be allowed membership. And I'm not saying don't give other religion citizenship. I'm just saying you can have freedom of religion in an extremely religious environment.

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And that is what our founding fathers intended. If you look at the structure of our government, it is a replication, a mirror of the structure of reformed churches in America in that time.

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Absolutely. I think our nation was founded on Judeo -Christian principles. The question is, what are those values?

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They're the values enshrined in the Ten Commandments. Do we share those values in common? You're darn right we do.

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And I think that people of most faiths across this country share those values in common. What we're failing to do is actually standing for those values in the government as it actually runs.

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And so what I suggest is study U .S. history, study what made the country great.

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And if you think Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin were not eligible to be founders or leaders of the country because they were deists, then you and I respectfully have a difference of opinion.

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And yet the beauty of our countries, we're still able to have that difference of opinion and still call ourselves fellow citizens. Thank you, my friend.

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All right. Thank you very much, Vivek. Have a great rest of your day. God bless you. Christ is King. Thank you, my man. All right. Keep praying. Thank you.

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Last question. We'll give you the final word, ma 'am. Okay. All right. So that's the exchange there.

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I wanted to say there's so many things I wrote down, but he does imply, Jeremy, that you are trying to reinvent

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America's history, that you haven't read the founding documents or the history of the country.

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And then he tries to sort of weasel in the idea that most faiths would share in common the

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Ten Commandments, which I'm thinking of the First Commandment. He's in violation of that already. But did you feel like he was talking down to you?

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Yeah. I mean, it really did feel like that. He had a very arrogant attitude about it. And I think he was also very annoyed.

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A lot of Christians had pressured him that night. I think I was the third or fourth Christian to ask him a question along the lines of his faith and its alignment with America and Turning Point USA.

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And so he was definitely kind of tired of it. And so he came off in a very, very condescending way.

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It definitely felt like he was speaking down to me with kind of just the way he asked, oh, do you know who Thomas Jefferson is?

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Do you know what documents he signed? How about we start reading U .S. history? As long as I have really been thinking about what

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I'm interested in, I've been obsessed with history, especially U .S. history. And so, you know, he's very coming from this very like he's just making assumptions about me.

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And he's coming from a point of a lot of pride, I think. What separation would you make?

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I'm curious between deism and I don't know, I wouldn't have put Thomas Jefferson necessarily in the deist camp, but I guess

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I can. Yeah, he's sort of like, I guess there's a debate about that really where he aligns.

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But assuming he is, would you see a difference between that like him and Benjamin Franklin and then someone like Vivek, who's a

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Hindu? I just feel like that's a very big jump. Yeah, I mean, I think that what we see with Ben Franklin, well,

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Ben Franklin, you know, whether he's a deist or not, I'm not going to address the Ben Franklin issue because we don't really know what like he was very, very involved in the

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Episcopal Church. He was likely a Christian. Many historians claim to be a deist. That's very debated. Thomas Jefferson, in terms of his deism, he was a

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Christian heretic, if that makes sense. So like, yes, he was not a Orthodox Christian. He did not hold true to what we know and what was taught in the gospel.

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But in terms of the way that he carried himself, the way he participated in American culture and European culture, he acted very much as a

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Christian. He held the truths of Christianity to guide his morals, guide his beliefs.

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And so while he does have this kind of deist view of, you know, God is kind of just this clockmaker, he was still very

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Christian in his attitude. And that is a very, very different thing from being Hindu, which is a polytheistic, you know, they have like 300 million or something gods, you know, some absurd number of gods and deities.

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They have a very, very different value set to our Western principles. They have holidays that are contradictory to our holidays, like today we're seeing with Diwali, whereas Thomas Jefferson would have been, it would have been hard to distinguish him from a

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Christian at the time, which, you know, maybe that's a fault of Christians at the time. But it also says something about Thomas Jefferson, about the kind of man he was.

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I do know that in the election, his first presidential election, there was a lot of, I will say political attack ads at that time that were claiming he's an atheist.

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He's because he had gone over to France, right? And he was initially supportive of the French Revolution. So it was like, oh, he's he's going to make us all atheists.

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And these were obviously attack ads that he, the people who voted for him didn't obviously believe.

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But, you know, I look at him and I'm like, they always go after those two, right? It's always Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin.

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And that's the reason that no matter what your belief system is, you could be a Satanist and you still are going to gravitate towards Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.

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And I'm like, if everyone was as Christian as them, you know, Thomas Jefferson authoring religious liberty or sorry, a

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Sabbath breaking bill to punish Sabbath breaking in Virginia, same year that they passed the

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Virginia Statute of Religious Liberty. Thomas Jefferson, who finances a Calvinist church in Charlottesville for his friend, the

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Reverend Charles Clay, Benjamin Franklin, who is going to George Whitefield rallies, Benjamin Franklin, who's calls the

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Constitutional Convention to prayer. Like, it just doesn't seem to me like these guys, they would be considered

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Christian nationalists today. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. What you remind me of is when

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I was doing a live stream with Reverend Jonathan Hanson, he's a reverend here in Iowa, and he has a small following on Twitter.

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He's got really, really great stuff to say. I mean, he was telling me a story about how Jefferson, he would go to George Whitefield or like he would go to sermons in his talks, and he would never bring money because he knew that as soon as he heard him speak, that he would end up like donating a bunch of his money to Whitefield's cause.

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And he ended up writing a bunch of IOUs, which he then fulfilled. And I think that, you know, says a lot about how much of a, you know, he was not a

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Christian. I really, I don't believe that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian. I think if you look at a lot of stuff he says, he would have, you know, not been accepted by the

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Orthodox Church. However, he had a lot of Christian behavior elements, had a lot of sympathy towards Christians. And in terms of them being, as we say,

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Christian nationalists, absolutely. Thomas Jefferson writes up, he drafts up this Declaration of Independence, and the number one topic of it is

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God -given rights. He's talking about the Christian God, the Chinese God. He's talking about the one true

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God. And that is, you know, an incredibly

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Christian nationalist idea to see, okay, here's the founding document that's going to kind of give an outline for our nation.

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He's talking about how all these rights that we have, contrary to a lot of people we see in the

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Enlightenment at that time, are just talking about how they're like human rights, or we see that today. He's talking about how they're

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God -given rights, and how they're given by the Christian God, who he is referring to, because that's the audience he's writing to.

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When you say God, everybody that's reading that at that time, in that location, is a Christian. Right.

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You know, Vivek being a Hindu and then trying to run for the governor of Ohio, I wonder what kind of answer he could have given you that would have been satisfactory, or if that's even possible.

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Because essentially his answer is that America is not a particular religion or lineage or people, it's this universal thing.

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Maybe he would say particular people, but it's only because they're held together by these universal ideals that are,

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I guess, accessible and common to everyone on some level, which means we're really not particular. The thing that makes us particular, he said, is universal, right?

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So that's sort of the way that he can be included in Americanism, whatever

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America is, and being a leader in it, he kind of gives himself that on -ramp. But is there a way that he could have satisfied you?

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What if he said, I realize I'm out of step and I don't want to change anything about the character of the

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United States. I do have a different religious belief, but I'm going to try to respect the character of Christianity that existed here.

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Would that have helped you? No, honestly, to be perfectly honest, it wouldn't have. I originally had kind of planned on asking him a bit more of an aggressive question.

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I was basically going to say, if you love this country, you will repent and turn to Christ or go back to India, where Hinduism is an accepted religion.

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That obviously would have came off very poorly, so I decided not to. A little provocative, yeah. Yeah, very provocative.

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And the satisfactory answer to anything that I'd mentioned to him is that actually, recently,

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I've been very, since Charlie's death, very heavily influenced by a lot of Christian people that I know, and I have now rejected

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Hinduism and am taking major steps, and I'm now attending church every Sunday. That would have been the only satisfactory answer.

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And I was actually really hoping that that would be the answer that I would get, and that's what he would say, is that, oh, look, I'm actually a

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Christian now, or I'm actually making serious steps in becoming somebody in the

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Christian community now. And realistically, I knew that I wasn't going to get that answer, especially after he'd answered the other faith -based questions that night.

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But that would have been the only satisfactory answer, because as we see at the end of the day, is the fact that Vivek is not

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Christian, even if he were to try and kind of adapt this more

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Christian culture, which we see him try to do, when he's talking about there being one God that is fundamental to the foundation of this country, he is a universalist, he's a globalist, or he's talking about all these things of different religions having the same shared values, which is simply just not a true statement.

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But we see that reflected in politics, because he's going to be obsessed with policies that go against America first, and it's going to hurt us.

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And so we see that it's more than just him not being Christian. When you're a Christian, it affects every single part of your life, and your belief system, and your politics, and all these things.

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And it should, and that's how it should be. And so when you're another religion, it also does the same thing, except it affects you in a very negative way.

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And so that's what we see with Vivek, is he's not hard on immigration like we'd like him to be, because he's influenced by this kind of idea that he's this globalist

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Hindu who wants to be accepted by Christians, wants to be accepted by Hindus. And he's like, oh,

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Ten Commandments, but God, Jesus Christ is not the Messiah. So let me ask you this.

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Are you in your room right now? I am, yeah. So you got the Thomas Cole's Course of Empire, the third painting in that series.

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Yeah, my dad bought it. Does he a Thomas Cole fan? Yeah, he is a huge Thomas Cole fan.

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He showed it to me. He got it for me for Christmas or something a couple of years back. Oh, Thomas Cole's my favorite painter.

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He's actually from the Hudson Valley, which is, I'm sitting in the Hudson Valley. He's about, he lived about an hour or maybe 45 minutes north of where I am.

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So, and in fact, if you look behind me right there, my book Against the Waves, that's a Thomas Cole print that's on the cover.

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Beautiful. So we match. But you also have the Know Nothing Party flag there, Native Americans Beware of Foreign Influence.

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So I picking up on, you know, I don't know, like maybe like, do you think that we're in a dire situation right now?

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Maybe that's Thomas Cole's painting would suggest and that we need to kind of like dump foreign influence.

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Is that the message you're sending? Yeah, I mean, just about. I think we're seeing a massive negative impact from the foreign influence we have in this nation.

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And obviously, you know, the nativists in, you know, in the Know Nothing Party at the time when that flag was first created, maybe more racist than I would have liked.

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But they had the general idea, the general right idea, that America is a Protestant nation with Protestant foundings.

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And that's something we need to defend. And we need to beware of any influence that's coming from another country because religion is so impactful in culture.

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And so what we are seeing in America is allowing foreign influence to infiltrate our politics and infiltrate our culture has led towards what we're seeing to be a very, very dire situation in the

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United States. Now, you're a junior in high school at your age, you know, what could people probably wondering, like what possible threat have you experienced that would make you think these kinds of things?

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Is it just study in history? Or have you noticed something on the ground reality in front of you that has made you just think, oh, no, we're in a bad situation?

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Yeah, I mean, so I go to public school. And so I see just about the worst of it. You get apologetic, white, liberal teachers who make their entire agenda, especially in history class about just white guilt.

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And then obviously on the ground, a lot of my classmates are just people who've just been brainwashed, even the conservative ones, so heavily brainwashed going up through the public school system their entire lives.

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And so I think what I'm concerned about is just the establishment is so far left, and they are so unashamed of using the power that they have.

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We have in Montana, right, Montana, Montana, a lot of you guys consider it to be a super red state.

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It is a super red state. And I am in a university town in Montana. However, there is no reason in which

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Montana schools should have pride flags hanging from them. No school should have a pride flag hanging from them.

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But I think to me, that truly is a good representation of how bad things are kind of getting, is that that's something that's totally normalized and nobody cares about.

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Like, and I'll bring it up and to my conservative friends, and they're not really bothered by it. And it's very, very concerning.

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And so, yeah, we see that Montana, there's a lot of transgender kids, like kids in public high school in a state like Montana.

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Once again, super, super weird that we're getting that out here. I can't even imagine what it's like in other states and super blue states.

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And they're affirmed by teachers. They have clubs that are organized and run by teachers. We have sections of the library that are pushing that agenda.

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And so, yeah, on the ground, I just see, I see a very left establishment and they're completely unashamed to groom children essentially towards their agenda.

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So let me ask you this, because you're a Zoomer. I mean, I guess you would be, right? You're on the sort of younger end of the Zoomer. I'm on the young end of Zoomer, yeah.

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Yeah. So Mark Mitchell reached out to me today from the Rasmussen poll, and he said that there's a new poll last week that's showing that only 18 % of Zoomers identify as very religious.

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And I keep getting mixed polling data about Zoomers, right? So I get this polling data that says

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Zoomer males are very right wing and more conservative essentially, and the

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Zoomer females are like radical left. But then I also get things that seem to indicate that Zoomers as a whole, including males are more socially liberal when it comes to things like sexuality and abortion.

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And that the religious element of it has really gone down despite the fact that we have record numbers of Bibles being sold.

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And it's just like, there's a lot of contradictory stats and it's hard to make sense of what is really going on nationally.

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You're in a red state. You're in Montana. Although it's a college town, sounds like what you're saying is that the folks, even the males in your cohort tend to be more liberal.

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Yeah. You get a really, really interesting ideology because as you point out, there are,

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I think I would describe my generation, at least the men as socially conservative, but not religious.

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And it kind of all ties back to this idea of like, we can't really have conservativism without Christianity. Because what you get is you get these people who, they're unashamed of playing around with racism.

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That's not good, but it's considered a right -leaning ideology. They find the whole transgender thing weird.

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Those transgender kids that exist within our school are very socially outcast. They are resistant to these things, but they don't have a religious grounding.

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And so they end up being soft on abortion because to them, it just doesn't seem like a big deal. Like, yeah,

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I want to go sleep around. I want to go to college and just have sexual polygamy and just kind of go crazy, do all this stuff and live a very unholy life.

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And it's kind of like, it's the Sidney Sweeney conservativism, if you know what I mean by that. Like when that GMAD came out and everybody was celebrating and I was like, wait, hold on guys.

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This isn't a win. This is like the sexualization of America.

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This is not a good thing. Why are we celebrating this? And so that's exactly how I'd kind of describe our youth is. I think conservative leaning, but on certain topics, because they have no religious grounding whatsoever, they go left.

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And I think what we're going to see is that if we don't get a stronger religious hold of my generation, that they are going to start to go more left.

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Even though right now they are definitely willing to be very far right. And so I think the key to that is going to be kind of reaching out religiously to these guys with a true strong faith, because the

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Christianity that a lot of these guys are connected with is a very, very casual, normie evangelical type faith, which is like super popular, especially in Bozeman.

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I'd say like 90 % of the Christians I know are plugged into a church along the lines of like smoke machines, laser lights, electric guitars,

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TED talk sermons. Yeah. I mean, and that's at least in school. Yeah. It's interesting. I've never been to Bozeman.

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I don't know what it's like. And I haven't traveled Montana extensively. I just associate it with probably what most people do.

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Like it's rugged Western, you know, range with cowboys and that kind of stuff.

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So I guess in a college town, maybe it's just different or something, but yeah, that's kind of crazy.

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Do you think that some of these Zoomer males who are going in these transgressive directions that aren't, so they're not conservative really, but they're, they're against the left.

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Do you think a lot of it has to do with, they feel like they've just been kicked to the curb and they've, their own freedom has been so restricted by, for example, like leftist policies or campaigns like transgenderism.

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They see those people being platformed and they'll never be platformed because they're white males.

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Right. And so it's sort of like a bitterness against that, but without the positive vision for like, what should society look like?

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It's more just like a lashing out. Yeah. There's a lot of bitterness and very, very little answer to that bitterness.

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So I think a lot of these guys know that they are angry at the establishment. You know, a majority of history class about America when we're learning about America or even

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European nations is focused on slavery and segregation and wrongs done to Native Americans in colonization, all this kind of stuff, you know, stuff that the left loves to rave on about.

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And so these young white men are built up their entire lives being told how awful all these white men, all their ancestors were.

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And so you get a lot of pushback. You have the transgender ideology, extreme feminism being pushed to them by women in leadership, which naturally they're going to resist.

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And so I think what you get is a lot of resentment, but I don't think most of them know why. And as soon as you introduce the answers to them, you introduce

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Christianity and you introduce it as what it truly is. You don't change the truth. You don't change the gospel message to be more palatable to our culture, but as the radical countercultural thing that it is.

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And it makes sense to them and they're drawn to it. And so I think that's really what we're going to, the answer for these kids is being introduced to true to Christianity, as I was getting at earlier.

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But yeah, what a majority of the anti -woke sentiment is among my generation is really just resentment towards the establishment because they just have been beat down their whole lives and told how awful they are their whole lives.

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And other people have been pushed up while their demographic has been continually pushed down.

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And so, yeah, that's what you get is a lot of resentment. What makes you different? I mean, you knew what you were talking about when you talked to Vivek on that, as far as your history is concerned, you are very pro -Christian.

28:48

Do you think your parents are the main reason for this? Or I mean, obviously in God's sovereign plan, that's what happened and he chose you.

28:56

But do you think that there's another factor? I'm just kind of curious.

29:03

Yeah, I mean, my parents definitely have played a massive role. My mom is like very, very roots deep in American heritage.

29:11

She's not incredibly conservative, but she's not a liberal or anything. And so she kind of raised me to just be culturally aware, culturally classy.

29:20

And my dad is obviously a very, very conservative guy. He's very involved in politics. And, you know, from a young age, we were kind of like it started out with here you are in a super liberal town originally from California.

29:34

And he was kind of just counter indoctrinating me almost, I'd say, because the indoctrination at school and elementary school level was so absurd.

29:42

You know, I still have distinct memories about that to this day. And so he would kind of, you know, teach me a lot about politics.

29:48

And when we moved out here, we got plugged into a really solid church. And a lot of guys in that church have just been able to pour into me a lot spiritually, just helped me grow in the gospel.

29:59

And then also online influences as well. People like Doug Wilson, people like the guys in Ogden who are, you know, obviously going through a lot right now.

30:09

Andrew Isker and CJ Engel. Listening to those guys, what they have to say has also been super influential with me.

30:16

But yeah, it all kind of started with from a young age. My parents were teaching me what is good, what is right.

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Here's how to behave. Here's how to carry yourself. Here's what's kind of like weird and honestly not okay.

30:28

And so I think that's the foundation. From a young age, I kind of had a base understanding. And I was going against the culture, even in a public school setting in a super liberal town.

30:38

Gotcha. So a combination of things, it sounds like. Yeah. You said you're really interested in history. Do you want to continue into college to major in history?

30:48

Or what are your plans for the future? Yeah, I mean, we'll see. Obviously, I'm really interested in history.

30:53

But I think that can manifest itself in a lot of ways. And so I'm honestly not really sure yet.

30:59

If you asked me kind of before this whole thing happened, I would have been pretty set on, I just want to plant a super, super solid church somewhere in Montana.

31:08

And I'm still definitely set on that goal. But also, I'm looking towards political horizons. I mean, the two are not, they can both be a part of your life.

31:17

And so I don't know. But something along there, maybe going to college. It just depends. I would hate to waste four years and get a degree that I don't end up using.

31:27

So I'm definitely carefully thinking out what I do. Yeah, you know, I have a very similar interest, at least when

31:33

I was your age, very similar background to what you're talking about. And I found that no matter what, knowing the

31:41

Bible is going to help you, even if you go into a political career. But if you get an undergrad degree, it doesn't really matter what kind of degree you get.

31:49

Because if you're going to go on to grad school, like if you're going to be a pastor, you'll be going on to seminary, most likely.

31:54

You're just going to need any degree. It could be in science. It could be in history. It could be in a variety of things.

32:00

But if you go on to grad school, that's really what's going to be the, that's where you're really looking at career choices at that point.

32:07

But I don't know if that helps you at all. But I had a very similar mindset to what you're describing.

32:14

And I could not figure out was like law school. Like, do I want to go to seminary? Ended up getting a bachelor's in history, then went to seminary and then got a master's in history.

32:22

So here I am. But the Lord can make it. You decide, you choose your path.

32:29

You think you're going in a way and the Lord will redirect and put you right where he wants you to be. So I think a lot of people who saw that video of yours have some high hopes for you and definitely want to see you make an impact.

32:43

It sounds like you already are. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of like going to seminary, getting an undergraduate, these are all things

32:50

I've kind of considered and just weighing out how it's going to work out with time. But yeah, obviously just constant prayer is key in that decision making.

32:57

It's the most important thing you can do is just ask for guidance from the Lord. All right, one last question.

33:03

Were there any reactions that you had from friends, people you knew there in Bozeman when you challenged

33:09

Vivek? Yeah, I mean, I got a lot of support from people at church which was really cool. And also just a lot of my friends at school have thought it's pretty cool that I mean,

33:21

I gained a little bit of a following on social media. I'm trying to stay like super low -key about it just because I don't want it to be a huge thing.

33:31

And yeah, I mean, I haven't really gotten any negative reactions. Thankfully, I don't think people who would react negatively would kind of really approach me.

33:39

I'm kind of known to be very activist about my political and religious beliefs at school. And they would hate to kind of cause a scuffle.

33:48

So yeah. Yeah, because you're not going to back down. Yeah, absolutely not. That's very cool. Well, I would recommend people who are listening, if you are on X, at WFCJRC, at WFCJRC, that's

34:00

Jeremy Carl's social media profile. And I'm sure you can message him or comment on his posts, encourage him there.