Crazy Things People Do in Church

1 Corinthians 14 and Decently and in Order

This is like an SNL skit. This dude is super into the hokey pokey. Welcome back to Conversations with a Calvinist. My name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist. Today we have a fun show for you. It's on a semi-serious topic but we're going to be taking it with a little bit of a light heart.

We're going to be looking at crazy things people do in worship and in churches and in sermons and we're going to be reacting to these things. Now I do want to say if you're listening to this versus watching this, you may want to stop the podcast.

You may want to jump over to our YouTube page because the videos are actually going to be up for you to see. We're going to have crazy things people do in worship, crazy things people do in preaching, crazy things people have said.

Some of it's funny, some of it's not funny, but I have again with me, sorry I forgot to introduce you. With me again is Richard Roden. Thank you Richard for being here.

I'm happy to be here and believe me, I need to have some fun here as of late so I'm looking forward to this.

Well this is again, this is our attempt and I want to tell you where these videos come from. A few years ago I did a series called Decently and in Order and the title of the series was based on 1 Corinthians 14 which says all things in the church are to be done decently and in order.

I took these video clips when I was teaching on a Wednesday night and I showed them to the church so that we could sort of evaluate are these things fitting that category, fitting the qualifications of being decent and in order.

The answer is no, no they're not. So what we're going to do, we're going to show these video clips, we're going to respond to them. We have several video clips to go through so it's going to take the whole program to do this.

Again I want to thank Richard for being with me today and we're going to get started with the first one. Now again, he has not seen these. He's seen a portion of the first one because we had to get everything set up in the studio.

So he has not seen all of these videos. He's only seen a portion of the first one. So this face, this is his immediate reaction. This is what he's given us, his true and real reactions. So here we go.

The first one, and again I don't remember what order I put them in. I just put them all in there because I have so many. These are all, it's amazing how many crazy things happen in the name of church and again these are not really funny.

These are scary, some of the stuff that goes on. So we're going to be reacting and seeing what we see. So this is the first one. This is holy communion. Remember this is the one thing that is supposed to be the most serious thing that we do.

The Bible says, 1 Corinthians tells us that when we take communion it is supposed to be a time where we examine ourselves. It's supposed to be a time of solemn reverence. This is supposed to be serious.

Unless you're, unless for some reason you're at this guy's church. It reminds me of, you know, Cackling Hyenas. There was a, there was an old, and I know it's, I know it is, it's culturally inappropriate to bring up Bill Cosby anymore because obviously we found out a lot of bad things about him.

But back in the day Bill Cosby was, you know, he was America's dad kind of thing. Well he did a stand-up special called Bill Cosby Himself where he was talking about somebody who was high and he said, and that's exactly what it sounds like.

It sounds like somebody smoked some reefer and they went up and decided, well now's a good time to take communion. There's nothing reverent about this. There's nothing serious about this. This is happening.

People, you see that church is full. Right.

I've seen this video before, actually. I saw this a few years ago. I can't remember the guy's name, but he calls it the heavy drunken glory is what he calls it. And the way he words it, he sounds high when he talks.

It's that heavy drunken glory is the way he puts it. And it's, and it's supposed to be the filling of the spirit or some nonsense, but like I said, that just sounded like a bunch of hyenas on the plane about to take down a lion who's strayed from the herd or something.

It's, that's just. By the way, did you hear how buttery Richard's voice is? Man, gentlemen, if you need somebody to put a voicemail message out there for you, just call Richard. He's got that buttery goodness.

But butyraceous is a word. You can look it up. I learned it from the TV show Psych when they did the spelling bee episode. Butyraceous means having the qualities of butter. And you, my friend. Butyraceous.

Butyraceous. All right. All right. So we're going to go now to the next one again.

We got several of these. We're now going to video number two. Video number two.

This one, I'm not going to give any introduction. Just this is, this is a song.

I just want to say, just so you know, we don't, we're not speaking over the video because you can't hear us over the video. That's right. So that's why we're letting the whole thing play before we react.

Yeah. This is a, this is supposed to be worship in a church. And, and because this part isn't on there, the whole video, cause I've, I've shortened these down some, the whole video, the guy says this, this doing this, singing this song brought about healing for people in his church.

This is like an SNL skit. This dude is super into the hokey pokey. This is the Holy Ghost.

So what you're telling me is, um, when I was in kindergarten, we were having healing service. That was a healing service.

That was a healing service, my friend. Look at this dude. Look at him. Release the glory. Hear him. Release the glory. Release the glory. Healing. And he's throwing it like, he's throwing like craps. He's like healing.

He's like Oprah, you get some healing. You get some healing. You get some healing. All right. Ain't a person in that room need to be healed. They're jumping around like a bunch of idiots. Oh my. This is supposed to be worship.

This is a atrocity. That's going to be the title of today's program. Worship atrocities.

And uh, yeah. Where? Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do unto the glory of God. There ain't nothing glorifying to God about this and this darn sure ain't worship. Oh my God.

Put your, who? I just have to say for just right now, just not that it really matters, but Richard said darn. He didn't say darn. He said, he, he, that we taught him in the, in the, in the, in the pantheon of Christian.

No-no words, you just, you just said darn. Yes.

That's the second time you pointed it out on the program where I've said darn.

And apparently. I've done like 180 shows now.

I don't remember what I said. And apparently, um, that is a Callahanian term because none of your other people I guess say darn.

Okay. Well, darn it. Well, this next one, this next one is not a song I don't think. And you're not prepared for what I'm about to lay on you. Oh boy. You're not prepared for the seriousness that this is about to take.

It's about to take a serious turn here.

See, that's how I know you still poor, broke, busted, and disgusted because of how you've been honoring me. I'm not worth your McDonald's money. I'm not worth your red lobster money. I ain't worth your St. John knit.

Y 'all can't afford it. No. How. I ain't worth y 'all Louis Vuitton. I ain't worth your product. I'm not worth your Gucci. Oh, I'm saying this and I promise you digging in is not with respect and won't.

I'm saying it because I want you to understand just what God is saying. Even found out that Movado, you can buy a Movado watch in Sam's. Yes you can.

Yes you can. He's telling them they got to buy him a watch. He told them, listen, he says, you were supposed to buy me a watch.

Listen. And y 'all know I asked for one last year. Here it is the whole way in August. I still ain't got it. Y 'all ain't saying nothing. Let me kick down the door and talk to my cheap sons and daughters.

This, this dude is literally chastising his church for not buying him a gift. A watch.

And it was, oh, he said, you can buy this Sam. I ain't worth your Gucci. I ain't worth your Louis Vuitton. Your McDonald's money. Your McDonald's money. He wants to take McDonald's money out of people's mouths.

I can't even. I can't even.

I can't. This is, this is amazing. He, first of all, he's not a pastor in the, any biblical sense of the word, but.

Now we'll say this, this did go viral. You notice that was a TikTok. That was a TikTok. Oh yes. That was viral last week. So some of these are older that I did with the decently in order. Some of these I have sprinkled in more newer ones and old dude, Jennifer saw that.

She goes, dude, you got to talk. She don't call me dude. She said, love her. Love her. She said, sweetheart, honey, bunches of oats. You've got to talk about this.

Oh my, there's no words for that. That's it's amazing. And there are people, the people in the audience that say, come on, amen. Come on. It's like, you agree with this?

Are you kidding? Yeah. I would tell you something. The people that were saying, come on, they gave their McDonald's money. Their grandkids are upset because they didn't have McDonald's money.

What he's upset about is he ain't got that jet like Creflo dollar yet and he trying to get there. Okay. All right. Oh, I'm not sure we come back from that. Take a breath. Bring him back in close. Take a breath.

Lean back in. Let me, let me get some water for the next one. I don't want to drink it while you play it because I probably, man, did you get that out of church fridge? Yeah. Bring me one. You ain't worth my, my, my water money.

Church money, man. Richard does stole church water. Okay. You don't charge, but if you use the bathroom too, I put a quarter thing in there. See guys this is too much fun. We're sometimes oh man sometimes you just have to laugh and I do enjoy laughing.

Sometimes you got to treat the ridiculous oh yeah in a ridiculous way. Okay let's get on now. This this next one. Let me see. Yeah I see where we at where we at. I don't know. You run. Is that this one.

Yeah here we go. Okay all right. This one this one ain't funny but it's a it's sad. Okay so that. Okay yes. There's a little boy and this little boy. Listen listen to him. I'm preaching about a man's church to the man's church of Pentecost.

Of many costs. No sir. No snapkin. He brought it up. He dabbing that sweat.

It's what I do for the one Lord Mississippi where that Jackson is remember.

The Lord does for us. Everyone in that church need be ashamed of themselves.

This this this actually infuriates me. One this poor kid to him this is this is pretend time because he's just mimicking what he's seen other Pentecostal pastors do with the yelling and screaming and all that stuff and the dabbing their head not he's just mimicking second this almost some sort of child abuse far as I'm concerned because this poor boy is gonna grow up in this church and if the Lord don't redeem him out of this place he gonna grow up thinking that this is all right and this is what preaching is this is what.

Preaching is just making guttural sounds right stringing words together in a.

Sentence that have no sense right. Yeah. And this and in this church has completely and totally disregarded any biblical teaching on who should be in a pulpit as far as preaching is concerned because it ain't supposed to be a little.

Child. No anyway golly this they justify. It goes on just real quick. He got a Bible. But the fact that he's best if you look it's like it's like a kid. I think it's like a kiddie Bible. The sad thing to preaching that the old men do ain't much better than this.

No they spent the sputtering out sentence fragments. Mm-hmm. I mean it's the next thing that like things on fire and $100. The guy standing.

To the right is the preacher and it's probably his daddy and somebody needs. We need to do a straight-up st. Nick and go slap him in the face. He needs to be punched. Yeah I'm just this is oh my gosh I want you to hear him justify.

What what.

He says it's only another 30 seconds or so but listen to the spirit did anoint.

Him and I believe he felt inspiration. His dad and I were surprised because he was saying victory and we're going to have a red-hot revival and to me that was unique. That's a term I haven't really used red-hot revival but that's kind of I guess a little four-year-old child's thinking and I certainly endorse.

It I see nothing but Jesus in a little boy that would make anybody happy. I can't compose myself when he up there out of the mouth of babes. God created us so Canon is one of those little babes. Do.

Y 'all not understand that he is just copying what he sees the other preachers do every Sunday. And if I'm not mistaken correct me if I'm wrong. There has been some I heard I think Phil Johnson somebody talked about it with the speaking in tongues and all and I'm getting to the point with us that they start teaching these kids at young ages how to enunciate the speaking in tongues.

Yeah all he's doing is basically grooming this kid to do what he does. There ain't nothing in the spirit about any of this this is just copy and paste and you're doing it with a four-year-old.

No it's not it's not funny and that's that's the thing I know we've been joking around but when it comes to the pulpit this is a serious thing. Oh yeah this and going back I mean to the to the to the guy doing communion that was a serious thing to the pulpit is not a place for for this kind of silliness for this kind of awful awful mistreatment of the Word of God.

This kid is not preaching the Word of God this kid is not proclaiming truth this kid is sputtering out sentence fragments. Mm-hmm that's all he's doing and he.

Doesn't understand what he's saying. I don't understand what he's saying. No it. Well six times. He just mentioned the city they're in. Yeah just to say it I.

Mean it just red hot revival and everybody got excited about that. Well Lee moving on we're gonna kind of go away from that because again that that that was a down note. Yeah that was it is. It's terrible to see that and it's terrible that somebody some I'm gonna tell you something.

One of y 'all is gonna come on and you gonna comment on the YouTube page which I won't comment but if you comment supporting that nonsense I tell you what that's on you that you have no idea how wrong that is if you are supporting somebody who is not fit to be preaching.

Well he's a child. How are you to say a child's not fit. For the very reason he's a child. He ain't supposed to be up there preaching the.

Word of God um well I did. What he's saying ain't one of the qualifications of a elders be control of his own household husband and one wife these are adult things not child like childish things and apt to teach not apt to spit.

Scream and bounce. Right. But that's the qualification for preachers in a lot of churches. Oh man that man can preach. Really what did he preach about. I don't.

Know but it's sure enough. Sounded good dude. I could give you an opening to a sermon right now that I can make up on the spot that I could probably go to any church and who I was as a guest speaker and probably raise $10 ,000 because it's just because it's easy to spit this kind of nonsense.

Yep. Oh my gosh geez. Well.

I've I've got to the point where I don't know where we're at either so even though I know what the videos are we're gonna just keep on going and see what's next.

On as my buddy Richie Allen always used to say number next let's go I think.

Being in the Bible belt there's so many things working against us about this church. As far as ideals go our women are very involved in ministry in our church. We we don't believe that they don't have the right to teach men.

I think being in.

The Bible bail all right. So what that is. That is from a show called preaching Alabama. When I'm preaching I've been yeah that is preaching Alabama. And this was a this was a a group of very I can't even describe a very interesting group of folks who decided to go to the heart of Alabama and open up this church.

And they and they did sort of like a documentary following them around opening up this church. And that lady there is the preacher so he's the pastor at which is unbiblical and she in the whole show is I remember once in the show because I watched portions of it where she said we can't have fluorescent lights.

I'm not going to start this church in foot with less because fluorescent lights don't provide the feeling that is needed for people to have the experience that they're supposed to have in this church.

So if we cannot start on day one with fluorescent lights and this is her dad or somebody was there's I won't know. What we can do is our lights. We got you know and they were well you got to take them out you got to fix and it was all about the fluorescent lights because that was what was gonna squelch this spirit was what.

Color lights they had see the fluorescent lights aren't gonna bring the love of Jesus and bring all the warm. And does he's that we like here at the church. So we we got to get rid of the fluorescent lights and put in just regular light bulbs them.

Yellow light bulbs will bring a glow that'll bring in.

That heavy drunken glory and that's that. This is the idea this is what churches is. It's not about the the Word of God it's not about proclaiming the truth of God. It's about setting an atmosphere providing an emotional experience sending people home with with with some kind of of experiential emotional drivel that'll get them excited enough to come back next time.

And you know as Spurgeon often said entertaining the goats that's right we're doing. Entertaining the goats that's all my goodness what we're moving.

On. Yeah we need to see much of that clip. No there's a hole. If you want to see some atrocities look up. Raising or. And it's just amazing. Alabama preaching.

Alabama let's say race in Arizona no preaching Alabama is what it was called not raising Arizona. I don't understand how these people. That's Nicolas Cage's best movie. Okay if you like Nick Cage gone in 60 seconds is Nick Cage's best movie but anyway impromptu debate.

I don't understand how these how these people continue to just overlook Paul's writing to Timothy that women are not supposed to be teacher have authority over men. How do you. I just don't.

Understand. There's another there's another portion of the episode where her and her mom and I guess it was another lady in the church are all getting like pedicures and they're all talking about it. And the mom has a very distinct voice.

She's like she says we are in the heart of the Bible belt. I'm doing my voice from the from the show. We're in the heart of the Bible and people just don't understand that. Things have changed and and women are now breaking the glass ceiling as if it's like business.

It's like a woman becoming the president of a company is the same as a woman becoming the pastor of a church. It's not the same. No there is no glass ceiling. There's God's command the word of God doesn't.

Change. That's right and so the only glass ceiling you're breaking is define the command of God so in breaking your glass ceiling you are sinning horrendously.

Worship Atrocities and the Abuse of Communion

Wow anyway I'm going on number next. I just want to say before okay this is a worship service at a church and I just want you to see the video and listen to. What song is the what we would call the call to worship.

Or the first song will our call to worship. Scripture reading. But it's the first thing that's happening because you see the numbers in the background. The number in the background is the countdown. All right.

You don't know the song. I'm not picking it up. Okay three seconds you'll know. You get at the Florida Gator Games. This isn't church dude that's.

Ozzy Osbourne I know this. The screen comes up and all when I go to the Gator Games and that's the first thing you get is all bored and done. This is this is supposed to this this is supposed to prepare you for the worship of the triune God on the Lord's Day going into the presence of God at the hands of Ozzy Osbourne.

Yeah. That makes a whole lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well this next one I do.

Know what's up next. Because I can see. I see what's coming up. This next one is a dude preaching now. I don't know this guy. I know is his name because he says his name in the thing. It's Bill Shearer.

I think is his name and I don't know anything about him. But I want you to listen to what he says again. This is this is sermon. This ain't just conversation you know this is a sermon.

All right. You guys are raised that we're always sinners even if we give our life to God. I'm not a sinner. If you'll ask me you'll say hey sure you sinner. No I'm not a sinner. I keep going. I'll tell you quite simply why I'm not a sinner is because the Bible says God doesn't hear the sinner.

He sits up and takes notice when I put a demand on his will. First of all. First. First of all it's good that we're going through the book of first John and Sunday school. What does John say about those who claim that they have no sin.

They're a liar and the truth is not in them. So bro boy to be talking about. Lord hears him brother. Truth ain't in you bro. According to first John and God ain't listening you for Jack. Squat. And you're laying.

You're laying a demand on his will and he's answering. You know he's sitting up and taking notice. Worse sitting up and taking notice of the demand that you're making on his will. God help this man if he don't actually come to faith one day because he's gonna stand before God and God's gonna make very clear notice of him that he didn't take notice any demand he made on his will.

That's right. Oh my. That is some next-level arrogance. Right there. Oh yeah.

Very dangerous dude and I will say this I remember I tell the story really fast. I remember a guy coming to the church. He came on Wednesday night Aaron Bell was preaching. So I was sitting in the audience and I sat next to the dude and the guy got up halfway through the lesson and left well Aaron was teaching on the history of Baptists in America because that was something we were doing for our church history course.

Mm-hmm. So the guy got up leave and I was like well I gotta know why this guy's leaving. So I followed him out get out to the narthex. I'm standing there with him. I said hey man you know I hope you can come back one day kind of gonna try to be nice.

And he says he says I need to know some what are you guys about. Which I kind of understand the question because it was a weird lesson in the history of Baptists in America. That's kind of it was a specific lesson.

He just happened to come in on. What are you guys about. I said well we're about the gospel. We're about telling letting people know that they're sinners and they need Jesus Christ. And he says well I'm not a sinner.

Now we had a 10-minute back-and-forth where I had to prove to this man he was a sinner. Mm-hmm. I mean I had to show him that he was still a sinner and he and but his argument was it was a categorical thing.

I went from sinner to saint when I came to Christ. Now I get the category argument but but if you say you're no longer a person who struggles with sin you no longer have any sin in your life. I think you're a liar.

I think that's what 1st John says you're alive. You say you have no sin now some people say well if you say you've never sinned you're a liar. That's not what he said. He said if you have no sin and that's what.

And what I said to the dude. I said have you loved the Lord your God perfectly from the moment you woke up to this very moment. Have you loved him with your heart soul mind and strength perfectly from the moment you woke up.

He said well. I didn't say I was perfect. I said you've shown up did say you you said I am NOT a.

Sinner if you're going to say as a believer that you because you've been transferred from the category of sinner to saint then you had to throw out everything Paul wrote yeah because Paul said he was the chief of sinners yeah Paul still struggled with sin and Paul wrote most of the New Testament yeah.

So outside of Christ Paul was probably the greatest Christian ever lived and he was more than happy to say he was a sinner because that's why he talked so much about the grace of God he needed the grace of oh my golly how does this teaching get into a church.

This dude is like on TV.

Bill Shearer I mean yeah yeah all these people are all these people are famous enough that I just found her stuff. It's all right we got it. Coming up next is.

You and I are emerging people not fallen people. Our problem is not that we are born in sin. Our problem is we do not yet know how to achieve being fully human. The function of the Christ is not to rescue the sinners but to empower you and to call you to be more deeply and fully human than you've ever realized.

There was the potential within you to be. Maybe salvation needs to be conveyed in terms of enhancing your humanity rather than rescuing you from it. Okay that is.

Just so everybody knows that was John Shelby Spong. He was a bishop in the Episcopal Church. He just recently died. Me and Matthew Henson did a this. Earlier this year we did a podcast about his death.

This was one of the greatest heretics. When I say greatest heritage. That sounds like a oxymoron. He was one of the worst heritage right in recent church history. He taught he taught Christ didn't rise from the dead.

He taught all kinds of crazy things. But this was his. This is what his sermon sounds like. Well the first thought that.

Came to my mind. Is he. Is he taking. Is he taking like the hypostatic Union. Okay. And is he trying to say that since Christ was perfect in his humanity so he he became fully since he was fully human.

That should be. Our strive is to be fully.

Human like I think I would say give him way too much credit because I don't think he would believe in the hypostatic Union. Oh I'm just I'm just guessing I.

Never heard of this guy. Yeah but just him talking about trying to give him some credit. Yeah. But they did. What he would say is wrong. Because Christ we're not trying to be perfectly human but like Christ.

We're trying to be like Christ in our sanctification. Like and he said horrified he didn't come to save us from sin and that's the other problem is he didn't come to say we're saying he came to make us more human.

That's why I was like it's almost sounds like he's trying he's take he's got as a gross misunderstanding of the hypostatic. You never cry. I don't know but that's that's. I don't know what it may have.

Tales of that. Yeah other than to think that's where my mind went. That was weird.

And he preached like that every week. I don't know if he preached every week I know that was that was that was the crux of his message. Christ didn't come to save sinners. He was the one who debated James White on homosexuality years and years ago.

That's why I got to bring James White a cheeseburger. I was standing. I was standing with James White before this before the debate. It was like I got there like noon and they were all setting up. And it was in the hotel lobby right.

And Chris. How enough. Chris Arntzen was there but several guys were there in. I think Michael Fallon was there. A bunch of guys were there and dr. Weiss's. I'm hungry and I said I'll go get you cuz I was only one who drove.

Everybody else flew in and I said well I got my car. I'm gonna get you food. What you want. He wanted a cheeseburger for McDonald's like a double cheeseburger. I.

Was like I was like I got you boo. I'm going to get James White a cheeseburger.

I was such a nerd I was such a fanboy I was geeking out and like I got to sit in his hotel room and.

Watching me eat a cheeseburger. I don't know if he remembers that. James. James if you watch this I'm sorry I remember just being like the most awkward cheeseburger.

He's ever eaten. I'm like you gotta know for that for that to be that's the most.

Theologically driven cheeseburger I've ever seen in my life. I was 26 years old ish I.

Think that's when I met that Christian musician. There was a Christian musician there. Doesn't matter. I can't think of his name right now. You ogled James White with a cheeseburger. And I didn't get myself anything so now it's like I'm not eating with him.

I'm watching him eat. When Richard comes weird stuff comes out. I overshare.

Alright, number next. What was that guy's name again? What was that guy's name again? That was John Shelby Spong. You gotta have weird names like that I think to be like.

Yeah it's kind of like what's the guy who like James Earl Ray or what was the other one that shot Kennedy. You talking about Lee Harvey Oswald? Have I got three names? Don't call me Medford Kiefoski. Noted.

You're gonna love this one. I got this one just for you. I am not poor I am not.

Miserable and I am not a sinner that is alive from the pit of hell. See. She agrees with Scheer. Scheer.

Said I ain't a sinner and so did Joyce Meyer. By the way if you're one of these people who think Joyce Meyer is okay she is not. She is a false teacher. She's word of faith. She is dangerous. You need to get her off your tv.

You need to get her off your ipod. You need to get her off your phone. She is teaching damnable heresies. One of them is she ain't even a sinner. That is what I.

Were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head. I wasn't a sinner anymore.

I didn't stop sinning until I got it through my head. I wasn't a sinner anymore.

And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it.

Yes we do yeah. See the religious world wants to uh say it's heresy because it is. But the bible.

Says that I'm righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time. Oh my goodness.

That is exactly the opposite of the truth simul justus et peccator at the same time just and sinner. That is what we believe that's what we teach that is the reformation doctrine of justification that we have been given.

The righteousness of Christ. Paul says I have a righteousness which comes not from keeping the law but a righteousness which comes from faith in Jesus Christ a righteousness not of my own but a righteousness that comes from Christ.

Positionally you are righteous but practically you're still a sinner. Oh my gosh yeah I just want to let y 'all know. If you put a picture of her up next to Jack Nicholson from the original Batman she could take over Gotham tomorrow I'm just telling you.

And what's the next one. Okay all right. Getting back to worship atrocities. This is a um this is a this is a worship service. This is in a church. We tried to get Garth but we couldn't so we got somebody even better.