May 4, 2020 Show with William Sasser on “Keeping the Gospel Simple”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Iron Sharpens Iron Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this fourth day of May 2020, and I'm so thrilled to have back on the program

William Sasser, who is pastor at Grace Church at Franklin, in Franklin, Tennessee, and of course if you listen to this program regularly, you know that Grace Church at Franklin is an advertiser on this program, and we thank

God for Pastor Bill and the congregation there, not only for seeing enough value in this program to advertise on it and to connect their own church with it, but even on top of their monthly advertising budget, they've even been generous with financial gifts in addition to the normal sponsorship of the advertising.

I'm so grateful to God for you, Pastor Bill, and today we are going to be addressing the theme,

Keeping the Gospel Simple. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Bill Sasser.

Delighted to be with you, Chris, and we feel that everything is mutual.

We pray for you faithfully and consistently here in Franklin that the

Lord will increase the borders of your tent and give you more and more listeners and supporters.

I would like, if I may, encourage anyone who is listening, individuals but especially churches, to consider, you know, supporting you on a regular, consistent, monthly basis.

I think probably consistent gifts are best because at least you can kind of determine a budget, but I'm sure you would appreciate any gift from anyone at any time.

That's right. It is our ministry, a ministry that we've undertaken to try to support you and help you in any way that we can, spiritually as well as financially, and we're really trying to, as the old saying goes, put our money where our mouths are.

We're just delighted and just thankful for you. Amen. Well, the feeling is obviously very mutual.

And before we go into our very important topic of Keeping the Gospel Simple, please remind our listeners, or introduce them for the first time, if they've never heard you before, introduce them to Grace Church at Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee.

Well, Franklin, Tennessee, is about 10 minutes south of Nashville, directly south, just off I -65.

It goes from Birmingham, from Nashville, rather, south to Birmingham and on down into Florida.

This church has been a witness in this community for right at 50 years.

I have moved to Tennessee. I was up here in 1971 and actually moved in my home in February of 72.

The church began in Nashville in Holiday Inn and in a fellow's basement.

We met in Holiday Inn on Sunday morning, and on Sunday evening we met in a man named

Norbert Ward's basement. Now, some of you out there may have remembered an old publication called

Baptist Reformation Review. Oh, yeah. But Ward was the publisher of that.

Turned that over to some other folks later on, and Norbert died really at an early age with a brain tumor.

And so he and another family, the Grund family, were the two families here.

And from the very first time we came, the Lord sent some visitors, and here we are now 50 years later, and he has sustained us all these years.

The church is located at 4052 Arno Road, Franklin, Tennessee, 37064.

And if you're in the area visiting or if you care to listen to some of the messages and studies that are delivered here, we are also on Ustream, the letter

U, stream, like a stream of water. You can go on Ustream, type in Grace Church at Franklin.

You have to spell at, A -T. It sounds like a web address. But we were

Grace Church at Franklin before there was an Internet. And we're also on Sermon Audio.

So you can go in to Sermon Audio and type my name. It'll bring up some messages, and you can see the videos.

So we've been here a long time. The Lord has blessed us. We have had a television ministry for nearly 20 years, and the only reason we went off television was because we wanted to build a new building, which we did some 14 years ago, 15 years ago.

Dedicated it in 2006. And a beautiful facility just across the street from where we had been all those years.

We bought some property directly across the street and have beautiful facilities, usually sponsor several conferences a year.

In the last few years, the PTS, Providence Theological Seminary Conference, which is now the

PTI, Providence Theological Institute Conference, and have some real scholars and people who come and lecture.

We also have what I call an open conference. That's a conference where no subject is assigned, and men are allowed to speak and preach on whatever, however they feel the

Lord leads them. We have a very faithful congregation, and we have been here for a long time, and still looking forward to the coming years.

We have not been able to have service, of course, for the last several weeks because of the coronavirus.

However, we expect to meet together this coming Sunday. So, again, thank you,

Chris, for the opportunity to come on Iron Sharpens Iron and share whatever we can with your listeners.

Well, praise God, you're the first pastor I've spoken with that is beginning their public gathered worship this coming

Sunday. Really? Well, we have a fellow, a deacon in our congregation, who happens to, he had finished a career, he had a career of 35, 36 years, retired from that career, and this county,

Williamson County, Franklin, is located in Williamson County, one of the more progressive counties in Tennessee, and he is the head of FEMA in this county.

So we get lots of inside information directly from the governor as well as from the federal government.

Our building is situated in such a way that we have closed -circuit television in our fellowship hall, and our fellowship hall probably has more square feet in it.

In fact, it does have more square feet than our worship area. So what we will do this

Sunday, if we need to, is we will put people both in the fellowship hall and in the sanctuary in order to abide by the six -foot spatial differences between people.

We will do that when we meet, if it's necessary.

It depends upon the crowd, how many people we have. But I spoke to a brother the other day whom you know.

He's just 30 miles out of Boston or so, and he said that there was a Walmart near him and a large number of people tested positive in that Walmart, and so they closed it down.

And he said as a result of that, he doesn't think his church will be able to come together for another four weeks or more.

I'm assuming this is Gary George. Yeah, speaking of Gary, that's exactly right.

And so I'm, you know, my heart goes out to he and his people.

Those are some of the things, you know, the states out in the North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, there aren't as many people out there.

They have more natural space anyway, and so probably they'll be able to do things quicker than some of the rest of us will.

That's what my understanding is, that we're going to try to meet this coming

Sunday. Something could change, but those are our plans at the present. Great, and I have had the privilege of being in that beautiful new sanctuary that you have, and I must say, with all honesty,

I think that that is the finest pulpit I've ever seen, with the staircases going up on both sides of the pulpit with the beautiful railings, looks like something that Charles Spurgeon would have been delighted to stand behind.

Well, it is a beautifully designed building, and that really is exactly right. Years ago,

I went over to England, and all of the old, as well as in America, up in the

Northeast, the pulpit was designed to be the center of the building and they were exalted, typical of exaltation of the

Word of God, not exalting the preacher or the speaker, but the Word of God.

And yes, we do have a very beautiful building, and we really have enjoyed it.

It meets all of our needs. Great, and in fact, I have been invited,

I don't know if you're aware of this, but I've been invited once again to be the moderator for the

Q &A session of the next conference that your seminary is having, or your institute, your

Bible Institute is having. Well, I am aware of it, because I was the one to put your name for it.

I suggested that they use Chris Arnson, because, you know, a couple of years ago, whenever it was, when we had a little question and answer session, and I think that,

I think the question and answer sessions are most beneficial, very beneficial. And you handled that so well, and, you know, you're familiar with what they're talking about and those kind of things, so in your professionalism.

So I suggested that, and they said, yes sir, that's exactly right, that would be good. So yeah,

I had a blast doing it the last time. And of course, this time it's going to be less personal, because it's a virtual version on the internet.

That's right, that's exactly right. And do you know what date that is? I don't remember. They're going to have it on the 21st, which is a

Sunday evening. And I believe it's going to go, as it usually does, through Wednesday.

So that would be, what, the 24th? Of what month? Of June.

Okay, June. I believe that is correct. I'll double check on that, but I think that's right.

Great. And even though I plan on repeating it later, the website for Grace Church at Franklin, if you ever want to find out more about this wonderful church, and if you live near there, hopefully join this church, if you don't already have a biblically faithful church home, or visit there if you're going on vacation, or recommend it to others who live or who are visiting

Franklin. It's gracechurchatfranklin .org, gracechurchatfranklin .org.

And as Pastor Bill said earlier, the at is spelled out A -T. We're very used to using the at symbol when we're typing in things on the internet.

But this you have to spell out the word at, gracechurchatfranklin .org.

And I think it would be good, because of the situation going on with the coronavirus, that before we go into our main topic, keeping the gospel simple, that you let our listeners know about, now

I can't remember right now if it's a sermon or a blog article, but you recently addressed

God and the coronavirus. Well, I brought, I think, four or five messages.

First of all, I brought, people were talking about protection from the coronavirus.

And I brought a study from Psalm 91, which I entitled

The Greatest Protection. And that was a very, I had lots of response from that study.

Ended the message with seven promises that all of the people of God can claim from Psalm 91.

And then I brought two messages, a study one and study two, entitled The Coronavirus, What's God Got to Do With It.

So many people today, of course, simply cannot bring themselves to think that God has anything to do with anything like a virus.

And, of course, the Bible is full of the plagues, the plagues that God brought on Egypt, the 185 ,000

Syrians that the angel of the Lord destroyed from Sennacherib's army, was coming against God's people of the

Old Testament. So anyway, I tried to bring a common sense approach to that.

Not that God is, you know, using a whip, but that these things are either by permission or by command or by eternal decree.

But this is God's world, and nothing happens in His world without His knowledge or His permission.

That's for sure. So I brought that, and then I brought another study. People were talking, you know, how folks are when things like this happen.

And this is a worldwide thing. This is not just something that has struck the United States, as we have every year with the flu and the pneumonia.

So people are talking about, a lot of prophetic people are talking about, you know, the last days of planet

Earth. And so I brought a study on these last days, just talking about what are some of the characteristics, according to the scriptures, of the last days of this age.

Not of the world, but the last days of the age. And then I brought another study to try to comfort

God's people from 1 Peter 1, 8. Having not seen, you love and rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.

So I tried to, I was talking to our people, which is what

I always do, and others can listen in. So that's what

I brought thus far, and then I brought one this past Sunday from Proverbs 26, 2.

The curse causeless shall not come. And got a lot of response from that, too.

That there's a cause and an effect behind everything. Nothing just happens. And I assured them that there are no accidents with God.

There may be, we may make mistakes, but he does what he does on purpose, for a purpose, to fulfill a purpose.

Now, how do our listeners access those? Do they just go to grayschurchandfranklin .org, or is there another site for those?

Well, we are on Ustream, and as I say, the letter

U, stream, S -T -R -E -A -M, Ustream. If you go on Ustream and type in Grace Church at Franklin, or perhaps my name, it'll bring up about six months of archived studies.

And then we are recently, oh, two or three months ago, went on Sermon Audio. And if you just type in my name,

William Sasser, it usually brings it up. You can, Sermon Audio now has video. So most all of our messages on Sermon Audio, you can actually see the service or see me teaching in terms of this coronavirus.

That's what I've done. I've gone out each week and brought about a 45 -minute message to put out on the

Internet. And then, of course, sometimes there's a station that beams, like you do, all over the place.

Sometimes they put us on. There's a new fellow in charge of that named Tom Evans. Tom is steering

Family Radio in the right direction. That's right. I'm on Family Radio, but I don't have any schedule with them.

They just put something on there whenever they want to. I was the first one, perhaps even the only one,

I don't know. But at least the very first one to interview Tom after the radical theological transformation for the better, after Harold Camping nearly brought that network to complete ruin through his heresies.

And thankfully, Tom and those that were remaining at the network repented publicly of their following those heresies.

They made it clear they abandoned them. So I was thrilled to have such a key role in this, because John MacArthur and Grace Community Church in California, Sun Valley, California, they had refused every invitation by Family Radio to be added to the new lineup, because they were very leery that there were still heresies being taught there of Mr.

Camping. And someone on staff there, I believe

Brother Flowers, J. Flowers, he heard the interview that I had with Tom.

And he said, Oh, we've got to get John MacArthur on Family Radio.

So after that interview I did, the Lord used it to bring Grace to you, to Family Radio.

Well, that's wonderful, and I think we should do that. You know, I had a man one time who was using David, thousands of people out, using

David as an example of one who'd gone astray. And I said, Yes, you know, a lot of us sin like David, but we don't repent like David.

And so I think you did the right thing, and I certainly appreciate you doing that.

Tom Evans is a fine man, and I think he's steering them in the right direction. I sure do.

Great. And just a little bit more information on your congregation there at Grace Church at Franklin.

How has the coronavirus pandemic affected your congregation, and also the surrounding area there in Franklin, Tennessee?

Well, actually, we've had, I was going to bring this up a little later, but we haven't had anyone in our immediate congregation who has contracted the coronavirus.

Everyone has been spared by the

Lord. Of course, they have practiced most of them quarantining.

Some of them had to work, and they were in areas of work that they could continue to do so.

But thus far, no one has contracted that. Everyone has been delivered from that.

But here in Middle Tennessee, we also have some bad weather from time to time, and I just got a phone call just a while back.

We had a bad storm that came through here last evening. Yeah, I saw that on the news.

Did you? And a young man who I knew him when he was born, it was, he,

I knew his dad also. His dad and mom used to worship with us many years ago, over 30 years ago.

And anyway, he, I didn't get all the details, but he had gotten his kid into his home, and I don't know if he was going in or if he went back out or what, but a tree fell on him and killed him.

Oh, wow. And we had, I was out of Franklin yesterday in Chapel Hill, Tennessee, about 35 miles south of us, and I came back on Highway 431, and there were trees all across the road.

In fact, I thought I was going to have to turn around and go back. So it was a bad storm. I have not heard how many people might have been killed as a result of that.

Of course, a few months back we had a bad storm also that took about 25 lives.

As far as the coronavirus, our governor has begun easing things up.

He has been, I think, I think he's done a good job. I think he's trying to be safe.

He professes, his name is Bill Lee, and he has a pretty strong profession as a

Christian. And I happen to know some of the congressmen, and they told me they said he has been torn between letting people have their individual rights and protecting people, and especially in this issue of churches.

You may or may not know this, Chris, but there are no laws that prohibit or by which the government can prohibit churches from meeting.

They can ask you to do it. They might give you some executive order, but there are no laws that prohibit churches from coming together.

But I think in this first type epidemic that we've had, people have been trying to fill out the situation and be wise about it.

And I think, at least for our area, it's almost over for the churches.

We'll be able to come back together here. We're planning on doing it this Sunday, as I said. But the coronavirus, as they're saying now, over 65 ,000 lives,

I might say this. This is just my opinion. Everybody has one, and I've got one.

And I think that we have 239 million people, something like that, in the

United States. And you don't want anyone to die, but 65 ,000 people, that shows a lot of restraint and a lot of control for the good.

We would have had many, many, many more people who would have succumbed to that. So hopefully we'll be able to get it under control here soon.

Has it been like that in your area? In the immediate area where I am,

I don't know of exact statistics. All I know is that the governor,

Governor Wolf, has begun loosening the restrictions, not completely removing them, but loosening them here in Pennsylvania.

But my county, Cumberland County, was not among the first. So there must be a higher percentage of coronavirus patients and possibly deaths in this area, which is why they have delayed any kind of loosening of the restrictions.

Yeah. But I would ask everybody listening to pray for the family of that individual who was killed by that fallen tree either last night or today.

I can't remember what you said, but it was during the windstorm there in Tennessee.

And I appreciate that very much. Well, we're going to our first break, and when we return from that break, we will begin our main theme.

And I think it's a very good theme for we who profess the doctrines of sovereign grace to take up as a major theme of discussion because of the fact that we are very often, perhaps even more than any other group within Christianity, accused of making the gospel confusing by perhaps adding too much erudite discussion during presentations and so on, sermons, lectures.

And sometimes I believe that we are guilty as charged.

We're not always guilty of everything we're accused of. But we're going to hammer through that keeping the gospel simple issue when we return from the break.

So don't go away. Oh, if you have any questions of your own, send them to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. And remember, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you have a serious theological difference with your pastor or perhaps your entire denomination you have a disagreement with.

Perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with your fellow elders or the denomination that you are in or fellowship or brotherhood, whatever the way you categorize the gathering of like -minded brethren.

And I obviously would want you to remain anonymous if you have serious differences with that.

But otherwise, please just give us your first name, city and state and country of residence. And we'll be right back with Bill Sasser after these messages.

This is Pastor Bill Sasser, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sasser wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

I'm Pastor Bill Sasser. Thank you. Thank you.

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The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.

When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron, with your host, Chris Arnzen, and Pastor Joe Jackowitz, as they explore

God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues. Tune in at firstloveradio .org.

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Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on firstloveradio .org.

Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern, to hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

And don't forget, folks, there's one exception. We are interrupting the weekly coronavirus updates with Joe Jackowitz.

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White of Alpha Omega Ministries is returning as our guest on Friday, May 8th.

That's this Friday. So we will resume the coronavirus updates the following week with Joe Jackowitz.

So mark your calendars for James White this Friday, May 8th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and we will let you know as soon as we can what the topic will be, because we haven't picked one yet.

So I'm sure it will be fascinating, whatever it is. And if you'd like to join us now with a question of your own for my guest today,

Pastor Bill Sasser of Grace Church at Franklin. We are discussing, or we are about to discuss, keeping the gospel simple.

And our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I know that what I said in the way of introducing this topic before has got us criticism from folks who think that we make things overly complicated, we who are under the nicknames of Calvinists and Reformed and other labels that we have.

Obviously, I'm assuming you would agree, Pastor Bill. However, there is a difference between preaching the simple, pure gospel to the lost, and the difference between that and discipling and educating the flock, the saints, on many other issues in the scriptures.

There is a difference, because there are issues in the Bible that are far more complicated than the gospel itself.

For instance, as you know well, we have in Acts chapter 8, beginning at verse 30,

Philip ran up and heard the man reading, and he's talking about the Ethiopian eunuch, reading

Isaiah the prophet, Do you understand what you are reading? And Philip asked.

And the Ethiopian eunuch replied, How can I, he said, unless someone guides me.

So, obviously, there are things in the scripture that are not as easy and as plain to understand as the gospel we even have in 2

Peter chapter 3, where Peter is telling us that some of the things that Paul wrote are difficult for us to understand.

Do you so far agree with where I'm coming from? Yeah, I think, first of all,

I think this is a difficult subject to discuss, because of some of the very things you've just brought up.

The first point we ought to make is we don't have a simple gospel. I've heard people say, well, just give them the simple gospel.

Well, you know, the simple gospel has three points, according to 1 Corinthians 15.

You know, the death of Christ for our sins, the burial with Christ with our sins, and the resurrection of Christ without our sins.

But the gospel involves the three persons of the Godhead, the

Father, the Son, the Spirit, the righteousness of God. It involves sin and what all that entails, and redemption, and the work of the

Spirit, and convicting, and convincing, and converting sinners, justification, sanctification, glorification.

So there's not a simple gospel, but I think what we need to think about in our rush today to try to become what

I call user -friendly churches. Now, I don't know where all of the listeners worship or what their experience has been, but when

I moved to Nashville, Tennessee in the early 70s, Nashville was the number one place of publishing religious literature.

There were over 1 ,300 churches in Nashville back in 1970 and 71.

I don't know how many there are today, but the Southern Baptist Sunday School Publishing Board was there.

The Methodist Publishing Board was there. The Church of the Nazarene published most of their things here.

Lots of printing. In fact, I think Nashville at one time was the number one city in the nation in terms of printing.

So we've got a lot of religion, and I think in our rush to be all things to all people, we've ended up complicating the issue of preaching the gospel.

That could be in several different categories, and maybe we can discuss some of those. It won't seem very complicated.

I think, first of all, as simple as it may sound, I do believe in the total depravity of man, and I believe that man is depraved from the crown of his head to the sole of his foot.

And so what that means is if I believe that man is depraved, not just believe the doctrine of total depravity, but I actually believe that the man

I'm speaking to is a depraved man, then he doesn't have any ability to understand the gospel, spiritually speaking.

And so what I think men are doing sometimes is they're trying to explain everything.

Nothing wrong with using the original languages of the Koranic Greek and the Hebrew and the

Aramaic. There's nothing wrong with that. I love theology. I went to Vanderbilt University to study philosophy.

So I love all of those things. But the Bible says that the common people heard

Christ gladly, and they heard him because they understood him. He used plain language.

He used direct speech. He spoke about things that they could relate to. And I don't see anywhere in any of that that Christ went into detailed explanations of theological splitting hairs.

In fact, we're warned against that. Paul wrote to Timothy. He said all these things do is gender division and hurt the hearers.

So the first thing I think we need to do is if we realize that our hearers are depraved, then they're not born knowing the gospel.

And oftentimes I found a child that's more spiritually astute than an educated professor with a

Ph .D. You know, the Lord Jesus told the disciples, unless you are converted and become his little children, you shall in no case enter the kingdom.

And instead, we seem to gravitate quite naturally toward the more complicated in trying to preach the gospel.

You can't tell everybody everything in every message. And I personally believe, this is just my personal, no one else has to endorse this, but I believe each church is autonomous and each church should be responsible for itself unto the

Lord. And so when I go to teach our people here, I'm talking basically to a body of people, most of whom profess to be

Christians. In that, as you mentioned earlier, certainly I could go into some more detail about explaining some things.

In order for them to be able to grasp the great blessings that we have in the

Lord Jesus Christ. But I think that preachers, as I have been involved in the last few years, one of the conferences that we have here,

Chris, which you have attended, we invite some professors from seminaries, and they become quite involved.

And I'm not against theology, and I'm not against systematics, and I'm not against knowing where we stand.

But I think some of these things border on the ridiculous, and I know that the average person who wants to worship the

Lord doesn't understand anything of what they're saying. So I think those things need to be in a seminary classroom and not in the church.

So first of all, I think keeping the gospel simple means that my approach to the people that I speak to must be a direct and simple approach.

And I have to remember, if I do remember and I do believe that man is totally depraved,

I can't possibly believe that I can talk him into believing the gospel.

In other words, I can just keep explaining and keep digressing and keep dissecting until he gets it.

Because it's not a matter of getting it. I'm not bypassing the mind. I don't want to bypass the mind, but the gospel is a heart thing.

It is a thing that people believe in their soul, and they see it. And this is my second thing here, the necessity of divine revelation.

I don't want to bypass the mind, but the gospel has something to do with revelation.

You know, Jesus said, No man knows the Father but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So we might say that the gospel is for simple folks. And you have some words about simplicity, of course, in Proverbs.

You remember the writer said, How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity, and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge.

And some people translate that simple as naive. That is, those people to whom we're speaking are spiritually naive.

And the word translated, simplicity, implies ignorance. So the question is, How long will you who are ignorant continue to be ignorant?

And there are three sorts of persons joined with that simple person, the ignorant person, the scorner, and the fool.

And so by nature, men come forth from the womb ignorant and foolish and potentially scornful regarding having anything to do with their

Creator or God. So I'm saying that in the circles I've been in, it seems that certain men, well -intentioned but nevertheless,

I think, in error, believe that it is a matter of just simply teaching.

You mentioned the Ethiopian eunuch earlier. His question was pretty simple to Philip.

When Philip said, Do you understand what you're reading? Of course, he had no New Testament. He was just reading from Isaiah.

But is this man talking about himself or some other man? And Philip simply told him and explained that the

Messiah is the person who is the subject of Isaiah 53. And that brings us to something that you already know, something that you've heard ad nauseum probably, that the

Bible is all about Christ. The first time I came on,

I probably didn't do a good job, but I told you I often tell our people the Bible is a hymn book,

H -I -M. And so we need to show Christ in all of his glory and all of his beauty and all of his majesty, not just simply trying to teach people theology in terms of systematic theology.

I realize that the word theosologos means word of God, but I mean systematics and all of those kinds of things.

So I think the cure for this is to take a direct approach, realizing that men are totally depraved, that they're blind, they're deaf, they have a veil over their hearts, and that they are naturally opposed to anyone ruling over them.

And that probably, in my opinion, is the essence of surrender to Christ, that we bow to him as our

Savior and as our Lord. I'm not talking about works that we have to do.

That's another era where people say, well, you've got to do this, you've got to do that, you've got to know this, you've got to know that.

I don't believe that. I think that salvation is an instantaneous thing when the sinner looks to Christ.

But I'm not the one who tells the sinner that he's saved.

The Lord Jesus Christ by his Spirit must assure him of that.

I want to do all I can to encourage him. But I think the cure for this ignorance, both on the preacher's part and on the people in the pew, is the word of God.

It gives subtlety to the simple. Then men need to present the

Scriptures in a clear, full manner. Another issue with the failure of this gospel that's being preached today is prayer.

The Lord Jesus Christ said, my house shall be a house of prayer. So I ask you, when was the last time you met with a church and they spent any time in prayer?

We don't spend any time praying today. We're too busy merchandising things and selling albums and having concerts, selling tickets for people to attend.

We've got theater lights. We've got spotlights. We spend tens of thousands of dollars on sound equipment.

We've got stars, whether they're musicians or vocalists or speakers. But when do we pray?

We're not really seeking the power that comes from above. We're seeking to entertain.

We're seeking to mesmerize. We're seeking to get church members. In fact, if we could pick right where you left off there when we return, we have to go to our midway break.

And if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't forget, folks, this is a longer than normal break that we have in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

FCC requires of them the localizing of their programming to Lake City, Florida.

So they air their own public service announcements and other things in the middle of the show, while we air our own globally heard commercials.

So as I try to remind you, please try to write down as much of the information provided by our advertisers as you can so that you could respond to those commercials, that you could patronize those advertisers.

And even if you can't patronize them or if it's a church, if you can't visit that church because it's on the other side of the country, well, you could write to them.

You could go to their website and write them and thank them for sponsoring Iron Trip and Zion or something like that.

But please, as I said, write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers and respond to them as much as you can.

And also send us a question for Bill Sasser, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer. He's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise. And yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

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Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled

Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the

Brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home. The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.

When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron, with your host,

Chris Arnzen, and Pastor Joe Jacowicz, as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues.

Tune in at FirstLoveRadio .org. That's FirstLoveRadio .org.

Each Friday at 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on FirstLoveRadio .org.

Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. To hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the

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That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And remember, you can also call CVBBS .com at their toll -free number, 800 -656 -0231, 800 -656 -0231.

And remember, you can only call that line, or you should, I should say, only call that line

Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. and 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time, because if you call at any other time or day, you won't have an answer, and you won't have a voicemail option.

There is no one manning that line other than Monday through Friday from 10 a .m.

to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern. And please always remember to tell them at CVBBS .com that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Before we return to my guest, Pastor Bill Sasser, and our theme, Keeping the

Gospel Simple, I just have some other very important announcements to make.

First of all, tomorrow we have Dr. Joe Moorcraft returning to our program to discuss

Part 4 of his book, With Liberty and Justice for All, The Christian Politics Made Simple.

That's Part 4 of that discussion. And then we have the following day a friend of mine that I've known for many years,

Dr. David C. Innes, who is a professor at the

King's College in New York City. And we rarely have two subjects the same two days in a row, especially when it's two different guests.

But he's going to be discussing something very similar. His book is titled Christ and the

Kingdoms of Men, Foundations of Political Life. That's Wednesday the 6th of May.

And then my dear friend, going back to the 1980s, Pastor Bill Shishko of the

Haven, which is a congregation of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. He is the pastor of the

Haven in Deer Park, Long Island, New York. And we don't have a topic picked yet, but I will let you know as soon as possible.

And that also goes for my dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who is our guest on Friday the 8th of May.

We are interrupting our weekly coronavirus update with Joe Jakowicz in order to accommodate

Dr. White's schedule. And I'm looking forward to his return to our program.

Every time he is on this program, I gain at least 10 listeners that I have never heard from before.

It could be many, many more than that who don't contact me. But I think that I owe

James White or a debt to James White for the vast majority of the listeners of this program.

Whenever he plugs this program, I always see a definite positive reaction from people that I've never heard from before.

So those are the topics and guests for the remainder of the week. And folks, now it's time for the uncomfortable task of the day that I really dislike doing, but it needs to be done.

If you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, you love the fact that I have guests and topics that very often are never heard anywhere else, you love sharing the free downloadable

MP3s with family, friends, and loved ones, you love receiving free books and Bibles in the mail when you email us questions for our guests when we're interviewing authors, and many other reasons why you love this show.

Well, if you don't want it to disappear, please go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com and click

Support. And then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

And if you prefer snail mail, you can mail in a check made out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to the address that appears on your screen when you click

Support at www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com. And please, folks, as I try to remember to tell you every day, please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church that you would be accustomed to, that you would normally give them, in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Please don't do that, especially in a time like this with the coronavirus hysteria and the fact that many churches have been hit very seriously financially because of this.

So don't siphon money away from them. And also don't put your family in financial jeopardy either by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Those two things are commands of Scripture providing for your church and your family. Providing for my show is obviously not a command of Scripture.

But if you love the show, you don't want it to disappear, you've got extra money, you weren't one of those who tragically have lost their livelihoods and their jobs because of the coronavirus hysteria, well, please, if you have extra money above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands

I mentioned, then please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, then click

Click to Donate Now, especially since many of you have extra money because you haven't been going to sporting events, you haven't been going to the movies, you haven't been going out for an evening of fine dining, you haven't been going to plays and theatrical performances and concerts and Bible conferences.

Well, can you use some of that money to help us out? If you have that extra money, go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. And if you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever you are promoting is compatible with what we believe here.

You don't have to believe exactly as I do, but if you're promoting something, it has to be at least compatible with what

I believe. Then send me the email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And last but not least, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, please rectify that situation very soon.

If you need help finding a church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I've already helped quite a number of people in our audience find churches that they didn't even know existed.

I remember one person in Australia contacted me, and he was shocked that the church that I recommended to him was about two minutes away from his house.

I don't know how he didn't know of its existence, but he joined that church. And many others have recommended these churches to their friends and family and loved ones who are not aware of churches near them that are biblically faithful.

And also people have visited these churches when they are on vacation. So in fact, always remember, if you're ever in the

Franklin, Tennessee area, gracechurchatfranklin .org is the website you should immediately go to.

But if you need help finding a church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

and put I need a church in the subject line. And that is the same email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Bill Sasser.

We are discussing keeping the gospel simple. And our email address, once again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And when we had to interrupt you because of the midway break, you were just about to touch on the importance and power of prayer.

I'm sorry that I'm not relating this well, because that embraces how we worship,

I suppose. But I think that instead of spending time promoting other things in the church,

I personally, again, this is just me, I've been to all kinds of conferences, all kinds of gatherings, all kinds of seminars over the years.

But I personally believe that the church should be reserved for the preaching of the gospel.

And in order to keep the gospel simple, which is our theme today, I think first of all the message there needs to be a single message.

And by that I mean that Christ must be preached. Each church has to determine for itself whether the messages on Sunday morning,

I know churches that Sunday morning their messages are evangelistic. Sunday evening they speak to people who may be lost.

Every message that I bring, I try to include all of them by simply, number one, just preaching the

Bible. There's nothing wrong with illustrations. I know, Chris, you're familiar with all of these writers.

Arthur Pink was a radical guy, but the Lord used him mightily.

And one thing Pink wouldn't do, I don't adhere to this rule, to tell you what he did, he wouldn't use any illustrations that weren't biblical illustrations.

And so I think when we're preaching, the reason he did that is because he wanted to always show forth the truth as it is in God's Word.

So it's a struggle. I've got a lot of preacher brethren that struggle to try to keep things simple so that the person out there can understand what we are saying.

And I believe the first thing, as I said earlier, was to keep in mind that the person there that's coming to hear you speak was born into this world in sin, totally depraved, and they don't have an ability to hear.

So I think if we stick to God's Word, stick to the Word expositionally, to me that is the most biblical type of teaching, verse by verse exposition.

I've had to bring topical messages for the last several weeks because of the coronavirus situation.

And I don't mind telling you it's a struggle for me, because I see the connectiveness of Scripture, and we try to stay biblical, single, take a text, whatever your text is, and head for the cross and present the

Lord Jesus Christ in his glory. Today, and I'm sure this is a different sounding note,

Chris, maybe for your program, but I think in churches we've left off prayer, as I said, and we've become merchandising march.

I hear men a lot of times on television and radio. I had a television ministry myself for 20 years, and the only reason

I don't have it now, we wanted to pay for our church building. We don't like indebtedness, and so television is expensive.

We got off television to pay for the building. But one thing that I never did,

I never came on and said, now God has given me this message, and you can have it for $25.

You send me a gift, and I'll send you this message that God gave me. I think that's wrong, and I think that that adds to why people see the church in a complicated way.

So I'm saying to keep the gospel simple, we need to keep our worship simple, we need to keep our services simple, and to do that, they need to be single.

That is, the single aim is Christ and him crucified. In a general way, as Paul said, know nothing among you except Christ and him crucified.

I personally think that systematic theology should be reserved for the seminarian, for the person that's studying for the ministry and so on, for the theologian, for the philosopher.

I really think that it has no business in the church. I think the church needs to be dealing with the simple, straightforward preaching of the gospel of the

Lord Jesus Christ, keeping in mind that we are dying men speaking to dying people.

Now, I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but it does to me.

Yes, it does make sense, but I think I have to add some caveats, lest listeners misunderstand you, or perhaps we disagree at some point.

I think that there are churches out there that their worship services are overly simple, and they don't leave adequate time to instruct the disciples.

They are catering the entire existence of the church to lost people who may or may not wander in, and they wind up being very repetitive.

I mean, you mentioned exegetical, expository preaching before, where you're not going to be repetitive if you are going verse by verse, chapter by chapter through the scriptures.

So I think that's one of the benefits of that, of expository preaching. But many churches are topical, and they are very overly simplified, almost on a child's level, and therefore the congregation winds up starving or remaining stagnant and not growing in their faith, because they're not being taught.

Now, I understand the extreme, where you have some pastors act as if they are seminary professors.

And I don't have any problem with a pastor using 16 -syllable words on occasion to explain something, but he must break that down and make it clear what the meaning of what he's saying is.

That's exactly right, and a lot of men don't have the gift to do that. I have friends.

You had a good friend recently, Ron McKinney. And Ron is an old friend of mine.

I had a meeting schedule with his dad, Don McKinney, when his father had an accident and died as a result of that accident.

I used to hold meetings for him, and I've known Ron for a long, long, long time. I intend to hear, by the way,

I intend to go back and listen to your interview with him, because I know it was fantastic and fascinating.

He's a fellow that has the ability to take things that are complicated and break them down and make them simple for people who can understand those things, even children.

He has the ability to do that. Everybody doesn't have that ability, and therein lies,

I think, another avenue here of keeping the gospel simple. People need to be able, and they need help to do this, to ascertain what their gifts and abilities are.

Some men have the ability to exhort, some to encourage. Some men have what

I call an awakening ministry. Other men have a comforting ministry.

But not one man can have all the gifts. I've been pastor in this church for a long time, but I personally believe we have three elders, myself and two other elders, and the other two elders do teach.

But I have the burden of it, and I personally think the New Testament pattern was probably, you know, plurality of teaching elders, preaching elders on Sunday morning,

Sunday evening, whenever they worshipped. So I agree with you. I agree with you.

I think the services can be absolutely simple.

I just think that in the circles that I've run in, and it's probably because of where I came from and where I was when the

Lord brought me to himself, I am repulsed, myself personally, by the theater lights and the spotlights and the thousands of dollars spent on sound equipment.

So we can invite stars and musicians and special speakers that somehow have some kind of ability or touch with God, and people flock in and even pay money, which

I think is bad. And I think that is against the Scripture. And I think that to keep the worship simple means one thing, that we keep it single, as I've said.

And that single issue is Christ and him crucified. How that church addresses that, whether they want to break up their services.

Here in Franklin, we have several large, huge churches, super churches.

And if you want a rock and roll service, you can go at 8 o 'clock. And if you want a traditional service, you can go at 9 o 'clock.

And if you want one that's in between, you can go at 11 o 'clock. All of those kinds of things complicate for the average person out here in society.

They're confused. And they're confused about the Gospel and about God and Christ and what it all means and what it all is.

And I think the problem is in the pulpit. Because the pastors are the leaders of these flocks.

You would agree with that, wouldn't you? I would. So we need to simplify that by starting with the message that we bring.

And, of course, in the way that we worship the Lord. The introduction of man -made methodologies.

Again, I probably looked upon as a radical, but I get along with everybody. But walking an aisle, signing a card, raising your hand.

Where do all these things come from? That's confusing to people. Some of them,

Charles Finney. Some of the things you just mentioned came from Charles Finney. Billy Sunday.

You know, I don't want to speak evil of the deceased. The Lord knows those who are

His. And so I'm going to leave that where that is. But I remember a cut a long time ago, 35 years ago.

There was an article that appeared every Sunday in our newspaper. And the article was,

Ask Billy Graham. Did you ever read that? No, I've never seen that.

Well, I still have that article. And somebody wrote, and again, this was 35 or 40 years ago.

But I don't want to speak ill of Dr. Graham. I mean, I'm glad that my salvation lies in whom

I have believed, not in what I believe. Because I'm sure I can't claim infallibility.

I have a good conscience about everything I believe. But I certainly can't claim that everything I believe is absolutely true, according to the

Scripture. I'm sure I have some error somewhere. But Dr. Graham, a person wrote him and said,

Listen, I want to ask you this. I have heard that in your crusades you plant people throughout the audience.

And then when you finish your message, when you conclude your message, you give an invitation.

And that those people who are planted throughout your audience, at that time they are working with you in the crusade.

They get up and they move down the aisle and come down and come forward. And that that encourages other people to get up and come forward.

And I'd like to know if that's true. And Dr. Graham said, Yes, that's true. He said,

We have people planted throughout the stadium, wherever it might be.

And when I give the invitation, then they get up and they ease out. And that encourages other people to do that.

Well, to me, and I'm not talking about splitting hairs here, but to me, that is extremely confusing when

I read the Scripture and see that it is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit alone who can convert a sinner.

Amen. All of these man -made methodologies from, you know, if you don't believe in believer's baptism, that's fine.

If you're in a covenant church and you don't believe in believer's baptism, or you believe in the sprinkling of infants, that's between you and the

Lord. I'm not trying to convert or unconvert a person. But I think whatever your position is should be clear.

And what Dr. Graham did was he gave his invitation, and he had those people slip out down the aisle to encourage other folks.

And then what did he do? He gave them some literature. He gave them some literature and told them to go to church of their choice.

Now, I think that's confusing. I've talked to lots of people over the years. And to me, this relates to keeping the gospel simple.

If it's going to be simple, it's got to be single. It's got to be one aim, which is

Christ, one message, which is Christ and Him crucified, trying to exegete the

Scripture, to open up the Word of God, and not use any of these methodologies that men have come up with in order.

Some do it, I guess, to grow the church, to increase numbers. A lot of them have revenue in mind.

If you have more people, you have more money coming in. I don't know. But I know I don't want anything to do with it because I don't think it's in the

Scripture. I don't think it's biblical, and I think it's confusing. And we don't have any of that at Grace Church, and the

Lord has kept us around for 50 years, and I think He's blessed us. And that's a big part,

I think, of keeping the gospel simple, is keeping one message, preaching one

Christ, preaching the God of the Bible, and not having confusing issues about what it is to be a

Christian. And those are the things that we do and don't do. And I think,

I've had people come to Grace Church from every stripe, every walk of life, every background, and their testimony is, for the first time,

I think I understand what the Bible is teaching. And it's just simply because we keep it single, we keep it

Christ -centered. Christ is the beginning, He's the center, and He's the end. That's what we want.

And we don't make anything out of men or any kind of man, whether he's a seminary professor or whether he's a professor at Vanderbilt or Harvard or Yale.

Men are just sinners. And I say, by the grace of God, if they're saved. Amen. And I'm assuming when you say you're keeping the message single, the

Christ and Him crucified, that while you're doing expository preaching, obviously you are dealing with many other issues in the

Scripture, but you always have to bring forth Christ and Him crucified.

I think we bring it back to Christ. Whatever we are, we bring it back to Him. Amen. We have a listener who is somebody we were just talking about earlier, and he has a couple of questions, but for the sake of time, since there are other listeners waiting,

I'll just read one of them. This is Gary George, Pastor Gary George, of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts.

And by the way, folks, if you are visiting or live in that area, Southbridge, Massachusetts, the website is

SovereignGraceMA, from Massachusetts .org, SovereignGraceMA .org.

And he asks, Is it evangelistically appropriate and biblically sound to tell the unsaved that God loves them, not knowing that they are one of God's elect?

First of all, yes, I think that's inappropriate. First, because I do believe in election, and I think, secondly, that I don't think the message is

God loves you and has a plan for your life. The message is that God sent

His Son into the world to die for sinners. This is a faithful saying, worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.

And so I think we need, again, to keep it simple, we get back to the Bible, back to what the

Scripture says, and in the book of Acts, and, you know, that's a transitional book, but that's a book of history, there are two things that are not mentioned directly.

Now, some men will say, well, they're implied, but they're not mentioned directly. One is law, and the other is love, in the book of Acts.

And the book of Acts tells us how the apostles went about preaching the gospel. And their message was not,

God loves you, and their message was not, you've broken the law, and you're under it, or we need to preach the law to drive you to Christ.

You know, Christ called His people sheep, and sheep can't be driven. If you study anything about sheep, they can't be driven, they can only be led.

So to answer that question, no, I think it is wrong, and not biblically sound inappropriate, for the message to be to a general audience,

God loves you. The only place one can be assured of the love of God is in the

Lord Jesus Christ, the redemptive love of God, the general love of God as creator

God, which supplies all of our needs every day, the sunshine, you know, the guy that's out there that curses

God, every breath, he's enjoying as much sunshine as Chris Hansen, Gary George, and Bill Sasser enjoy it.

So there is a general benevolence of the Lord for all of His creatures, but there's a redemptive love, there's a love of acquiescence that can only be found in Christ.

So I never use that language. And, of course, it's revealed in Scripture that Jesus only loves the church as His spouse, and God only loves individuals as His children, if they are saved.

We are all children of the devil until we are adopted by Him and saved by Him.

Well, Ephesians 2 does say, and you have to be quickened or made alive who are dead in trespasses and sins.

And in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the power or the prince of the power of the air, which is the devil.

So, yes, that would seem to say, as I said earlier, when a man walks into the pulpit or is going to open the

Bible, the first thing that I think he needs to know, and you should already know this, is that men are totally depraved.

And if you realize that, then you know, number one, you can't talk them into salvation because they don't have ears to hear and eyes to see and a heart to understand.

And at the same time, I think you're not going to be trying to run the goats off.

You know, I used to have a pastor friend and he was always just preaching hell and brimstone and all of that.

And the Lord Jesus said to his disciples about the parable of the wheat and tares, they said,

Lord, somebody has planted some tares out here in the wheat. Didn't you plant the wheat? Yes, I did. Well, do you want us to go get those tares up?

No. He said, if you get those up, you may injure the wheat. So I think we need to personally, and I hope

I'm not confusing here, I think we need to personally love people. Yes, we are commanded to.

Huh? We are commanded to. Do what now? We are commanded to love our enemies.

That's right, that's right. We ought to love our enemies. And to do good for them. We ought to love them. But I'm not going to tell a general audience, the gospel is not smile,

God loves you, and he has a wonderful plan for your life. The gospel is that Christ died for sinners.

I can remember when I was lost, and Christians, particularly my brother, one of my brothers, and others, they would tell me how much

Jesus loves me. And I used to think to myself, well, then I've got nothing to worry about.

You know? I mean, sometimes you even hear a preacher telling people, and God's love for you is infinite, there's nothing that will snatch you from that love, etc.

What are you talking about? This person may go to hell. I mean, you're lying to them if they turn out to be a reprobate.

I think that's right. And to flip this corn over, I would say this.

I would say that it's probably the love of God that breaks the sinner's heart. In other words, when the sinner understands that he is a sinner and doesn't deserve anything, if he deserves anything, it's hell.

The gift of God is eternal life, but the wrath of God, that's something we deserve. And when we see that, when we see that, when we see that when we were without strength,

Christ died for the ungodly, and that, talking to me personally, I think that's the thing that draws us and that melts us.

But that is the job, the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That's not my ministry.

It's not... I am not to tell people, like you just said, you're in good shape if God already loves you.

So, if he loves you with a redemptive love... And of course, we could tell the church, the saints, the believers, our brothers and sisters, that God loves them.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is something that must be kept in mind when you're teaching the

Scripture, because all those epistles were written to the churches. They were written to the believers.

They were not written... A radio station here in Nazareth used to sign off, and they would kind of misquote

Romans 8, 28. All things work together for good to those that love God, and we are all loved by God according to his purpose, or something like that.

That is not right. Those who love God are those who are called according to his purpose.

And what he does, he does on purpose, for a purpose, to fulfill his eternal purpose.

And I think therein lies some of the affliction that Christians in the past have undergone because they stood for the

God of the Bible, who doesn't owe us anything, but gives us grace and mercy in Christ.

Well, we have to go to our final break right now. It will be much more brief than the last one, so if you have a question, send it in now.

chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more

Bill Sasser. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654 That's 908 -996 -7654

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

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Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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We are back with our discussion on Keeping the Gospel Simple with Pastor Bill Sasser of Grace Church at Franklin.

And we have another individual who I know him very well, I'm assuming you know him,

Pastor Ed Moore of the North Shore Baptist Church of Bayside, Queens, New York. I've known him going back to the early 1990s.

And he says, ask Pastor Bill if he remembers a guy from Albany, Georgia called

Hal McGregor. I certainly do.

Hal was a couple years behind me, I guess, and his sister

Anna, Hal and Anna McGregor from Georgia, I certainly do.

And don't tell me he's made a New Yorker out of everybody. I have no idea. I don't know this person.

And so I just assumed Ed must know. Well, Ed pastors in where in New York?

Bayside, Queens, New York. And he originally, well he's from Pennsylvania originally, but he was

Gary Scott's youth pastor at Three Rivers Baptist Church.

My next question, if you knew Gary, and of course Gary is an old, old friend of mine,

I've known him forever. Just spoke to him the other day on the phone.

So yeah, that's great. I know right where Ed is, and I do remember

Hal McGregor. I certainly do. And let's see here,

Ed also asks, can you have Bill tell your listeners about Bill and Will?

Sure. When I grew up, I grew up in extreme southwest

Georgia. I was about 35 miles from Alabama and about 35, 40 miles from Florida in a county called

Early County. When I was about eight years old, my folks sold the farm. My dad moved about 35 miles to Albany, which in those days was the second largest city behind Atlanta.

I always had an interest in music. And when I was about 14, 15 years of age,

I secured a guitar and learned how to play it and ended up becoming, being a professional musician.

I used to play with Dick Clark. Dick Clark had a Caravan of Stars tour, he called it, where he'd take a bunch of top 10 groups together, travel all over the

United States and Europe. And so the group that I had was called

Bill and Will and the Souls, the guy that harmonized with me, kind of like the Righteous Brothers, to give you a little illustration, two fellows and a band.

And it was my group that Dick Clark hired for us to travel with the

Caravan of Stars tour. So it goes back a long, long way. I had a couple records that were recorded in the late 50s, early 60s on two big labels.

When I used to come to Nashville back in those days, of course Nashville was not country then, it was just a record place.

It was known as a place where you recorded. I recorded some things here, recorded some things in Muscle Shows, Alabama, which is a famous studio.

And played with a lot of famous people, got to know a lot of famous people. But, as Paul said,

I can't all that but dung that I may win Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness but having

His. So that's where I was as I grew up, a professional musician, a musician playing all over this country and in other countries.

But the Lord saved me by His grace and then He put me into the ministry.

I just had a thirst for God's Word and still have it today after all these years.

And I've been here in Tennessee, as I have said repeatedly, nearly 50 years.

And I'm just as excited about the Word of God today as I was then. Well, I'm going to share with our listeners about 20 seconds of Bill and Will, or Will and Bill, no,

Bill and Will. Let me tell you Let me tell you, baby. music

Yeah, yeah, baby

Let me tell you what Got me running in circles

Till I don't know which way to look Well, it was the first I saw her

Looking through the window at the store I said, Oh, wait a minute, baby

Now don't you move Till I can get myself inside of that door

Let me tell you That's Bill and Will, Checker Records. 17 years old, probably 17.

And I'm thankful for the Lord's grace. I'll tell you that. And by the way,

Ed, next time you send in a question, how about trying to ask a theological one? laughter

And today's show is filled with people who know and love you and that I know as well.

Let's see, we have another question. We have a series of questions. We don't have time for them all. But the aforementioned

Ron McKinney, who I loved interviewing. In fact, Ron's coming back to the show in a few weeks.

In fact, let me quick grab my calendar. Ron McKinney is going to be on the first and second of June, Monday and Tuesday, the first and second of June.

And he is the pastor of the Kinsey Drive Baptist Church in Dalton, Georgia.

And he asks several questions that we already addressed in our first interview.

Well, not our first interview, but our last interview. So I will skip those. If anybody wants to hear how

Pastor Bill came to faith in Christ, and also how he came to the doctrines of grace and other things like that, look him up on the archive at the

Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio website. And you'll hear other interviews. But he asks, let's see, what is the difference between godliness and moralism?

Good question. I think godliness, first of all, is formed by convictions based upon the

Scripture. Morality has to do a lot of times with mores and the accepted standard of behavior in a culture.

Today, of course, we are confusing those two. That's a very good question.

Biblical spirituality and godliness is always based upon convictions formed from the

Scripture by the Spirit of the Lord. In other words, those things are biblical.

Moralism or morality has to do with what the culture would accept as the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.

And some of the most evil people, like many of the Pharisees, were moralists.

Right. And morality always changes depending on what age it is.

There are things today that are accepted that were frowned upon when I was a young person.

But whatever culture says is generally what equated to morality.

Well, we are out of time, believe it or not, and Pastor Bill Sasser's website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

gracechurchatfranklin .org. It is in Franklin, Tennessee. Pastor Bill, I hope you come back very soon. In fact, if you hold on the line,

I want to schedule another interview with you off the air. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who wrote in.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.