Russell Moore, Templeton Foundation, N.T. Wright on Abortion, & J.D. Greear's Diversity Push

We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris There's a lot of material out there to talk about and I'm not sure if we'll get to all of it

But I do want to talk about some things that I've had Bookmarked on my phone for the last few days some of them now,

I suppose over a week Russell Moore put out an article at Christianity today about slander which many are speculating is

In response to Megan's book, which would be true to form for him because When he's received criticism in the past.

He does not tend to acknowledge such criticism with Naming names and addressing it directly

He tends to do a very general approach where you don't know specifically who he's talking about but you can read between the lines and guess or you know who fits the description and I think there's a strategic reason probably he does this.

He's not the only one There's a lot of people in evangelicalism who do this. I don't know how many times I have heard someone with a platform in evangelicalism

Start talking about some pushback. They've gotten and the description they give

Sounds a lot like something I've said There's been times actually. I'm the only one I know of who's said what they're talking about but they'll they're not gonna name me and and I think

I don't want to speculate too much, but I think there's a reason for that and I'll just leave it at that but Russell Moore Maybe responding to Megan Basham with this piece and we'll talk about that a little bit

There's also a podcast that he did recently with Latasha Morrison, who's the author of be the bridge.

I'd done a whole thing on that. It's critical race theory Harmonized with Christianity or an attempt to harmonize you can't really do that, but She attempts to do that and in that book

This became sort of a minor issue in the primary for the Governorship of Virginia because Glenn Youngkin who is now the current governor of Virginia Had been

I believe it was leading these studies at his church. So when I said that Glenn Youngkin was influenced by or Had didn't have a problem with critical race theory and he's the one that the

Republicans are electing to deal with it it was big because of this in part, so That is how far back

I have to go though. I think that was what? 2021 2020 trying to remember now when he was first elected when that the race was the primaries were going on maybe 2021 but anyway

That's how some of you who listen to the podcast may know of Latasha Morrison but she so she did write that book and that's what she's known for and there's these be the bridge groups at various churches that Are supposed to promote racial reconciliation and I've had

People from churches that have done that tell me it's split up the church It's I've never heard of good fruit coming from it

But she was with Russell Moore too And so I want to talk about that podcast a little bit and then we will talk about NT right a little clip of him comparing gun rights to abortion

I have not listened to it that it's going to be kind of a cold listen where I'm gonna be listening to it in real time as you're listening to it and responding and What else do we have we have some funding

I'm gonna talk about some funding of a certain foundation called the Templeton Foundation and Probably not the full extent of what they've done but a little bit about what they've been up to and Really?

Reinforcing the point that Megan Bastian made in her book a point that enemies within the church has made a point I've made over the years is that there are

Funnels of money going to Bad actors can we put it that way people who are subverting the church and I don't think this is necessarily

All coordinated like everyone's in a backroom with cigars. I think this is just the way things are set up There's a chart.

I don't have it in front of me, but there is a chart I know I've seen many times that show right wing verse left wing donations so it was really donations to Democrats first Republicans and the different industries people come from who donate and it's

Startling when you see it. I mean it's mostly blue It's mostly Democrat donors in many of the influential fields

And so they just have a lot more money and they got there over time. This wasn't something overnight, but they have a lot more expendable income to put towards their political projects and If an evangelical is far left enough to use that money whether or not it's subverting

Evangelicals or it's just to push the needle forward on leftist objectives and other areas.

They might get that And there's more available to them. I'm not saying there aren't foundations and grants coming from more conservative think -tanks and organizations, but There are much more coming from left -wing organizations and so it doesn't mean all you're seeing in your church or your denomination or your

Christian organization is the result of Leftist funding. I think that's kind of a cop -out. I think that there's a lot of ideological reasons for what's happening, but In Certain areas.

Yes, they're there. The scales are somewhat tipped in ways that you might not be aware of We're gonna talk about that a little bit today as well

If we have time and we should have time for that and then we're gonna do kind of a blast from the past I'm gonna go back to a

JD Greer sermon from 10 years ago. I think it was on diversity, I'm not gonna play it but I'm gonna

I have a transcript and The reason I want to go back to it in part was because I thought it was a new sermon

I thought it was from the end of July and it turns out Summit Church. Just I guess re -released it online, so They're still backing this narrative up.

They're still Okay with this message being put out there and I want to talk about it though Because when

I was looking at it, I thought wow, you know It's it's just interesting to see the fruit of this so this was 10 years ago

JD Greer preached this particular sermon and to see what has happened since then and What I would say is the negative fruit the division that's come with it and So often these guys blame everyone who critiques them for the division, but I think the division comes from their message.

So That's a preview. And if anyone has any questions, I know I've certainly been active on X the last few days on this whole post -war consensus stuff and Was Churchill good or bad and and then a little bit on IVF too and Some I actually found some interesting things about IVF.

I did not know that I don't know if it's just because it was updated but I like one of the things

I saw was that the Embryonic well law should

I really get into this? Maybe I should maybe I should stop myself from getting into this because this is the third episode I talked about this topic, but I get pushback for it, right?

so I it forces me to to look at things a little deeper and yeah,

I mean I There's so much to say there's so much like it's such a big topic and there's so many moving parts

But the some of the overly simplistic responses, I'm just more and more convinced. They're not helpful and we really need to Target directly the ethical issues and the moral

Violations horrible moral violations that often accompany the practice instead of doing a very simplistic pro or con thing and then oftentimes with bad information about What's actually going on or what it actually is?

But there was what was it? I looked up a study Oh here it is. Okay. So this is on my ex.

So apparently I didn't know this but You're gonna hear this a lot With with people

I think very oftentimes well -meaning but people in the anti -abortion camp who understandably have a problem with IVF because of so many of the moral issues that often accompany it and You'll hear it thrown out that that you know with IVF there are

Anywhere, they'll say from 85 to 99. I've seen numbers all in the middle there, but like very high numbers for eggs that are well fertilized so the embryos that are discarded or lost in some way and This is often bandied about though, unfortunately in Ignorant ways sometimes careless ways where you're not sure like because you could be talking about Selective selectively getting rid of these

Embryos because you don't want them you have too many of them, right? You could be talking about that they weren't they didn't meet a certain standard or they were

Genetically, there was a they had down syndrome or something, right? And so getting rid of them for that reason you could also be talking about a natural process

Really that occurs in healthy pregnancies, or I shouldn't say in healthy pregnancies that occurs though in In natural in a natural state where you may have a healthy pregnancy, but there are other

Embryos that end up dying this actually happens with twins quite a bit around 10 to 20 % of the time apparently when there's twins one of the twins doesn't make it and the pregnancy is lost and the other twin does so estimates are that you know, this is

Somewhere up this is like 70 % of embryos are actually lost in the womb and nothing to do with IVF right, but I found out that in in IVF Situations they have a clinical pregnancy rate of over 60 %

The actual live birth rate is still below 50 % though Which I thought was interesting because that's actually

I thought they were I I looked up stuff This was must have been a few years ago now, but but they were equivalent and I guess they're not anymore in IVF situations actually there is

According to some studies less of a Percentage of embryonic loss.

So I I don't Quite understand all the ins and outs of everything related to this, but I did read

Enough of the study to understand what they the point they were trying to make and Yeah regarding specifically

What you would call natural reduction or spontaneous reduction IVF apparently has up to or a rate of over 60 % and then actual live birth of Just below 50 %

Whereas it's just weird to me. It's just odd. I don't know and you know, I thought about it I was like what would explain this and I think some of this it may be the fact that in that process the people who are candidates for it are

They have hormones. They've all they're taking a lot of progesterone and that kind of thing and this they want the womb to be an environment that is as Receptive to an embryo as possible and they're monitoring it and maybe that's what makes sense of that.

But Very interesting to me. So so anyway, we can talk about that if people have questions about that, but I do see people coming into live chat and People are

I don't know why people can't believe this Made it to another live stream T James Boone says

Jimmy starfish says I can't believe I made it to a live stream Believe it you're here. You are here.

I dreamer. How are you doing? So Let's talk about Russell Moore stuff first, shall we do that?

Let's talk about the be the bridge not be the bridge Sorry his interview with Latasha Morris and the author of be the bridge Some of the things she says and then some of the things he says,

I think it's very fascinating so Let's start with this

I'm just gonna play you little segments here because I listened to it For the distribution of food

And so I think that's something that we have to see that there was an adjustment made and in scripture goes on to say in that and the

Word of God spread and so at that point there was a hindrance coming because there was a lack of unity and we see that the

Word of God spread and we see that with Peter and you know just the eating of food and what was going to be required of the

Gentiles and what wasn't going to be Required of the Gentiles Gentiles. We see that what

Paul and you know, and we see this through scripture But I think sometimes we need help really fully seeing

What was underneath and what was at play there? We we completely missed that because when we read the

Bible a lot of times we think of ourselves we put ourselves as the marginalized, you know when we read the book of Esther we see ourselves as as Esther, you know

Being persecuted rather than no, we're like hey, man. How does a pastor?

Some of you will notice that seems very heavily edited I don't know why I don't know what was said and what they were cutting out but very heavily edited.

So The point she's making I'm just gonna go to the passage. It's Acts chapter 6. This is the passage

She's talking about Acts 6 verse 1 says now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number a complaint arose on the part of Hellenistic Jews Against the native

Hebrews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food now I'm gonna stop there.

John Calvin says about this. He's he actually says well, it doesn't mean they were being overlooked It just means that someone was complaining about it.

The Hellenistic Jews thought they were being overlooked. So I Guess there's a question about that But it says so the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said look it's not desirable for us to neglect

The Word of God in order to serve tables Therefore brethren select from among you seven men of good reputation full of the

Spirit and of wisdom Whom we may put in charge of this task and then of course they Put in charge

Stephen is one of them Philip Prochorus Nicanor if I'm saying the written names, right

Timon Parmenas Nicholas and Yeah, so those guys all have

Greek names and a lot has made about this. I've seen this Every guy so I would consider somewhat woke everyone from Carl Ellis to Eric Mason to like they all it seems like to use this example of people who are disenfranchised these

Greek widows because of some racism of some kind and Then that inspires the office of Deacon that inspires the

Apostles to specifically pick these Greek people to go minister to them and the implications if that's true, they're reading of it the

You might want to think about those implications a little bit because that would mean that I guess like you could extrapolate from that That I guess if black people are the marginalized in the scenario which is often the parallel made that white people should just go

I guess hire black people to help them or something like they Because it's not something that they should Get involved with which is kind of the opposite of what they're trying to say

But I don't know if that read I don't I should say I do know I do know that's it's not the correct reading

Of the passage and it's a novel reading I think What you really have in that passage is people who speak one language and people who speak another language and People who speak

Greek are thinking that they have been looked over and they want

Some attention so so this is what happens and Sorry, I'm distracted by something right now.

All right, we're good. So this is what happens and and anyway,

I think that The point that Latosha Morrison is trying to make here essentially is she wants to She wants to ensure that people do kind of a redistribution thing and That's not what you see in the passage.

It's not that one group is marginalized and Neglected and it's because of some we don't know that that it's because of some racism or some

Innate Hatred they have for Greek speaking peoples or something like that.

It's just It's an really the moral of it is there is an issue that the Apostles could not address

It took too much bandwidth and away from more important things And so they assign people of good character who were able to bridge that language barrier and take care of it

That's what you get from the passage. So Anyway, let's let's keep going.

There's a few other things in here. Let's go to this part of the conversation

That's overshadowed the other and I think we have to think about that even today and what's happening in our climate

What what do we want history to say about us? Yeah, where do we stand in that where?

Where people are having this conversation is not to defend themselves Because there were choices that they made in light of the gospel

Yeah, there are choices that we are making in light of the gospel

And so what what does the Word of God say? What does Jesus say?

about justice What does Jesus say about feeding the poor?

What does Jesus say about the least of these? I had a a white I'm trying to remember why

I wanted to play that clip Because I don't I I put in my notes Defending white supremacists because they did good things.

I don't know why I wrote that down I think she must be talking about it Maybe if I go a little earlier than the let's see if I go a little earlier if it makes sense genuine

Insight from people from the past while also recognizing this is horrific sin and injustice

Yeah I think we tell the truth and we've gotten so far away from the truth and It's the truth that really makes us free where I can say there's this duality where I can say

Those people make some really bad decisions and choices and I can talk about that But I could also say but these are some good things that they did.

That's the full truth. Like, you know, okay I guess I remember now more why

I wanted to play that so this is the thing though that people like myself have been saying for a while that People are flawed and there are oftentimes good things that you can find in someone and also bad things and the woke side has typically framed things as if founding fathers founding generation people are irredeemable in some way because of complicity and something that was beyond the pale and And so there's really no

There's no hope for her ever we should take down their statues we should treat them as villains in history in this kind of thing and I've tried to make the point that Going back that far.

There's gonna be a lot of assumptions that don't comport with egalitarian ideas we have today, but there's obviously there is a place of Profound Strength morally in a lot of these people sacrifice duty

Character traits that are actually in short supply today chivalry and it would do us well to go back to some of these things and That's a point though people even the neoconservatives, right?

who tend to buy into these critiques more strongly than I would tend to make this point and It's interesting to hear someone also make that point

So I just wanted to point that out that I don't know if there's a shift going on that I don't know. I don't know what that means, but it's a

This could be used to defend people like Robert E Lee if they wanted right? This could be used to defend a lot of people that they consider horrible beyond the pale people from history

Going on that logic. So yeah, the full truth Edwin Ramirez says the full truth the full truth in quotes

That's I think what we've been after I think is my point like She's trying to claim the mantle of the full truth.

But that is the very thing that we've been trying to like say there's there's a lot of it's complicated there's people are complicated and Having a one -size -fits -all paradigm for someone is oftentimes a oversimplification

All right, I only have like think three or four more little areas that I wanted to play here, so let's move forward here

Oh George Floyd. I was gonna just I'm not even gonna play this. I'm just gonna mention No, actually, I'm gonna play this because actually he's

Russell Boer. I think is the one who says something here. That's kind of Lot has happened.

Yes, but if you think about that, so just to put it in context, they're talking about George Floyd's Death here.

Let me go go back a little more and the things that we preach and teach, you know, do we believe in redemption?

Yeah, it's only been four years since the murder of George Floyd a lot has happened.

So yes But if you think about those those months immediately after it seemed like something had really changed

Yes, as though people who who maybe previously didn't want to even think about these things

Did yeah that has that has not been sustained

Yeah, at least in in my view you might disagree with that. But yeah, I think we're certainly not in the same place

We've heard that right. What did we do wrong in the George Floyd era? Yeah, I think it was performative

I think people were doing stuff and making changes not out of conviction, but out of Being called out so it was real performative

I think it was a start and I think if there would have been different leadership at that time

I think people would have leaned into it a little bit more but there was a double down and a racier and a change in of narrative and The fringe some of the fringe things that happen

Unfortunately from the church of CRT that took the life out of it

You know that were things that weren't even true so anything to do with history became

CRT Anything to do with black history became CRT We started banning things and conversations of people who were still leave it living and breathing.

I mean a ruby bridge All right. Let's just stop there for a moment I hope you see the overall point.

This is something I've seen over and over with leftists Like there are things that happen where you make some progress and then it's overshadowed or it like that this happens in history, right?

But it is characteristic of leftists to win and win a political victory of some kind They're guys in office.

They're controlling politics They get all this DEI stuff

Past and approved in corporate corporations. They remove hundreds of monuments They make everyone hyper aware of race and scare people into complicity they

Win a sweeping victory on the issue and then not long afterward

They they lament about it. Like well, we didn't achieve what we wanted. We didn't go far enough we didn't reach the goal we were looking for and Who's always to blame?

It's some it's these fringy Racist sexist homophobic, whatever these bigots that are hiding somewhere just waiting to trap them and and ruin everything and Russell Moore, I mean he frames it as a murder first of all, so I hope you caught that He frames it as the murder of George Floyd, which we know from the autopsy now.

That's not true but he says it's a murder and So he's buying into the narrative and then you know, where did we go wrong?

It's It's it's like everything's been reversed and this is one of the engine this is this is the engine

I think this is one of The things that keeps the left doing what they're doing because they're perpetually in this spot of thinking that there's more powerful forces that are holding them back and Christians even though if the evangelical elites almost entirely belong to them or are neutralized by them

It doesn't really matter They focus on the what they call the fringe voices who? Disagree with them and then blame them for why things aren't the way they want them to be and I would submit to you that Things will never be the way they want them to be

No matter what they do. They are bucking against creation most of the time they're trying to change social institutions to to arrive at some kind of a utopian state a

DEI paradise that doesn't actually exist that won't exist and really what conservatives

I think would say is that you have to take into account the populations that you're dealing with and the

Barriers and well the constraints that you have and then come up with the best policies for how to meet those

The left is much more ideological generally, and they Want whatever their ideal is on paper?

Abstractly speaking to be the state of affairs and when it doesn't reach that Then they have to come up with a scapegoat of some kind and so you just see it again here

All right. Let's talk about Wokeness to the term woke which was seen as a very positive term

Is not now and here's how they deal with it. It's just funny. They're very sensitive now to being even called Something like woke which

I just thought was really rich So here's a little clip on that, but we don't understand systemic racism, you know, that is a good point that Ruby bridges seems to I think a lot of people to be way back in history

Like a Harriet Tubman She's she's not She's my parents are older.

My mom is older than Ruby bridges. My mom is 72 so many so you're talking to someone where you're trying to deny a history that That not just I have lived but my parents have lived and the impact of that You know my grandfather who was 91 years old just passed in September I'm wondering if I got the right wrong time stamp here.

Let me go back a little more Just levels of depravity You know that I can't even imagine

That you know, we are a people that understand depravity, but we don't understand systemic racism

You know, that is a good so I'm not sure where the quote was. I put maybe I put down the wrong time stamp Maybe maybe it's on 30 instead of 20.

All right. Let me try one more thing and if I I'll just skip it if I can't find the correct time stamp to do what's in their power and What they're doing is helping sustain some of the brown people and some of the allies and accomplices that they had

Okay, I can't find it So there was a point I can't find exactly where it was for some reason

I must have written down the wrong time stamp where they do They're sensitive to being called woke and that this is some kind of Name call this is some kind of way to Illegitimize what they're saying and I just thought this was the funniest thing to me because It's not like conservatives came up with the term woke

Christian Conservatives didn't say, you know, we're gonna do we're gonna name -call them woke

It was a term that they used of themselves not that long ago even and all of a sudden, you know

It was turned against them as because we know what that is. Now. We saw what happened in 2020 and we say Oh, that's what woke is well, we're against that that's associated with all kinds of terrible things and Now they don't want to be called that in general.

And so now if a conservative uses it about them They're so sensitive to it and it's just it's funny.

It's rich. It's like you can't make it up All right, let's okay.

I just have one more thing. I want to play from this so this is Russell Moore at the end and It reinforces a little bit of what

I was talking about earlier how they can gain all these victories and yet They still feel like perpetual losers

When LaTosha Morrison brought it up is because I think we tend to Have this wrong -headed

Assumption that time itself will solve all of these problems

And I think if we've seen anything in the past couple of years we have seen the ways that things can go backward and things can go off course in churches and countries and Cultures when it comes to these questions of racial justice and reconciliation and I I Can think about in my own life being in the fourth grade

When our school was integrated not legally integrated that had happened long before but actually

Integrated with a group of african -american students. I was not

Terribly terribly long ago in the sweep of history and we still have

We still have a lot left to confront. But what I liked about this conversation

Among many other things but is that there really was a sense of hope that she

That she has and I think there are a lot of people who are Maybe the most effective right now who are realistic about Where things are we don't just wish this away.

We can look at what's happened over the past several years and say this is awful but Who aren't at the point of cynicism that just says what can you do?

This is just the way that it is She did she didn't yield either of those things and I think that is hope giving.

Okay, we're gonna stop there the Would you think this guy has? his the people he wants in office the policies he'd like The ideology that he subscribes to you

Would you think it's in a winning position from listening to that and look what he's holding on to Ruby Bridges?

Who is the subject of there's a Norman Rockwell? photo of Ruby Bridges going in to Integrate a school.

I think it was in Louisiana or somewhere He's holding on to something for I don't know how many years ago that was but the schools are integrated.

So He's he's saying well, it was I guess it wasn't that long ago and it just makes him sad like okay, but like where's the it's just interesting to be these guys who left us who they're getting the policies they want for the most part and Yet, they're they're still not satisfied.

They're just not happy with it I think He is a really nasty person.

Yeah, that's what Trump said about him I'll take some more questions Not Ruby Ridge.

No, not Ruby Ridge Ruby Bridges You can look her up Hannah Harris says hey, what are some of your favorite resources for accurate history, particularly of US history?

If you're looking for curriculum, I'm not my Child is not that old yet. So I haven't had to do this myself, but Brian McClanahan has

McClanahan Academy Tom Woods has Liberty classroom and both of those things. I think they're for probably high schoolers more but they have material and curriculum apparently for Helping at least assisting if not

Being an entire curriculum I've been told that The Tuttle twins the

Tuttle twins have good stuff I've never looked at it, but I've been told they have good stuff, which is also associated with Tom Woods for younger children

I've also been told I think the Ron Paul curriculum isn't that bad. I don't know. I've been told that There is a book.

I think it might be out of print I'm not sure if you can find a PDF called the war between the states, which is a it's a civil war textbook and Someone I know who teaches said it's it's the best they've ever seen the most comprehensive

Civil War textbook. I Don't know other than that, unfortunately as far as your general comprehensive surveys of history.

I actually taught American History or at least proctored.

I don't know what you call that when you're teaching online They call it teaching but sometimes it doesn't feel that way But I did at least proctor grade papers, you know administer

Lessons and so forth for American history survey and The way that textbooks are going now in college.

This was on an undergrad level are they're not really textbooks They're like you read a little bit you do a game or you do a test or quiz and you read a little bit

They're very interactive watch a video It's There they're not like what

I was used to growing up where you just have a Tangible like pages of information, right?

So, I don't know what's out there I think there's a lot of resources out there now and it's hard to sift through them because most of them probably are not

That great, but those are a few places. You can at least start to look and hopefully that helps My kids learn stuff from watching shows

Watching or watching the shows Oh the Tuttle Twins, I think okay the Tuttle Twins a show. Okay, maybe maybe that's what they are

I didn't know that Question have some Christians been too close for too long to Democrats that are now they are compromised.

I think it's just the Democrats have power and Christians who want to be well -loved or well -liked and they want to Remain employed and they don't want to be canceled and they operate at a higher level

They're going to cater that kind of thing and in their circle of friends. They're probably gonna be more Democrats okay, let's move on here and Talk about What are we gonna talk about Russell Moore's article, yeah when to respond to slander

This is kind of a basic article. I think so I don't it's pretty short, but he says that there was a woman who came to him about a conflict and wasn't sure what to do

And he said she said that you seem to mostly ignore it when people lie about you Is that because it would be wrong for me to defend myself.

Should I just ignore what they say about me? And more says that part of the problem is that we often think wrongly about what it means to ignore ignoring something sounds passive and Yet ignorance rightly defined is active

In order to ignore. Well, we have to know well, so in other words you purposely are not

And there are times to do this, but he says Proverbs 2 26 4 answer not a fool according to his folly

You'd be like him the very verse next verse answer full according to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes

There are times when responding is the right thing to do But then he talks about the example of Christ he says

You know, I guess is a prudential matter when it comes to slander about himself Jesus sometimes directly contradicted untruth

Sometimes he responded not with defense. He told stories quite often. He ignored One time he ridiculed the slander

Jesus modeled what it means to avoid the warning of Proverbs that is to avoid sinning in response to sins against us

Let me see if there's anything actually substantive in this knowing your vulnerabilities

So he said he usually ignores untrue things about himself

Or this woman did I guess and he agrees if you have a tendency for quarrelsomeness or of an oversensitivity

You might be best served not not just by ignoring slander, but to try to avoid it It's actually

I don't think this is actually all that bad advice to be honest with you I know I'm saying that about Russell Moore. I don't think it's all that bad advice

This is an interesting example. He gives and so he talks about Jody Foster responding to John Hinckley shooting a president to get her attention and Why does he bring that up?

Let's see There's sometimes quite different principles involved in defending others from slander than in defending oneself

Joseph Forgiving his brothers for their injustice is commendable if he had waved away their mistreatment of others though.

That would have been unjust Generally speaking Proverbs 27 to says let another praise you and not your own mouth a stranger not your own lips

Often can be applied to questions of responding to lies about oneself. I'm trying to figure out why he brought the Jody Foster thing up Maybe I don't get the reference

I'm too young Yeah, I think I'm just too young to get the reference.

He's making there It's part of history though, right? I should know what the what Jody Foster has to do with him the first century church at Smyrna suffered slander and then

Jesus told them that he knew about the slander and So Jesus is gonna judge the woman who asked me or whether to respond to lies about her needs to know above all that Jesus knows the difference between the truth and lies, all right, so so God's gonna judge basically and He doesn't come down on any side people thought this was about Megan Basham's book and it probably is

I mean knowing more it probably is and if that's the case then You could probably take this is speculative to some extent, but I have watched the guy for a while as Somewhat of an acknowledgement that okay, you know,

I got I'm gonna say something I remember the first time this happened early on when I was doing the podcast It was Bruce Ashford and I had said he was a provost at Southeastern Seminary since then

Let's just say he's had some bad situations in his life, but he is no longer there, but he was sensitive

I had critiqued him signing and not just him others signing this evangelical immigration table document that really did

I mean they said it wasn't promoting amnesty, but it kind of was and And I remember he

Responded with this whole article he wrote about trolls online and the different kind of trolls and you could just sense the passive aggressiveness in like as he wrote

This but he wouldn't like he was it. I got the impression. I like okay. He blew off some steam, but he's not

He won't like directly engage with me. He's not going to Argue the point and you know, sometimes these guys think slander any kind of criticism or critique is slander, which is just not but I think it is a way to acknowledge to Signal to others that like I hey,

I know that I was attacked, but you can dismiss the attacks Which I think probably is more or less what

Russell Moore's doing here What happened to Russell Moore someone else? I don't know what happened to him

He was I think he was always this way probably to some extent people say there's the old Russell Moore the new

Russell Moore and he's got no more left, but He was always I Mean his start was

Democrat politics in Mississippi, right? I mean early on he had I remember this article he wrote so weird to me that He had thought that he would get into politics and marry someone like Hillary Clinton and I thought what in the world

That wasn't that was during the time of the old Russell Moore, too All right,

Jennifer says education for kids Prager you daily wire and Moms for Liberty have resources

I'm not saying they don't I would say you can look into those. I would just be careful of all three of those Well, I don't know enough about want

Moms for Liberty I'm generally probably positive about them, but I do know especially

Prager you but daily wire stuff, too I know more there are the adult stuff and I've definitely caught some very

Neo -conservative and proposition nation stuff so You I'm not saying not to use them just I think everything though this doesn't go even for these just like everything just screen it

You parents really have to screen everything. Unfortunately these days I think people want and I understand it you want like a

Trusted network that you can just turn on. I don't think they exist anymore to be quite honest I think you have to just be aware of what's going on as much as possible

Okay, Jacob says Prager you and daily wire absolutely subversive I don't

I haven't seen their kids programming. There's a fight about this now. All right Our mega church in South Carolina recently sent out an email to all staff saying that Russell Moore was going to be speaking at the

Church and how good it would be considering the election. Okay, I'm not surprised about that David Barton history cat.

We have a cat. Okay says it's Dave blaze TV. Someone says okay I don't I don't know guys.

It's outside of my depth at this point with the kids show stuff Let's talk a little bit we're gonna wrap up here soon and any questions you have on any of the programs this week

I'll be happy to engage with but Let's talk about this sermon real quick.

This is from JD Greer. And like I said, they Rereleased it online. I thought it was a new sermon, but apparently it was from about 10 years ago

And the name of the sermon is standing in God's way of racial integration standing in God's way of Rachel racial integration and It's from Acts chapter 10 verse 34 through 11 17

So let's just go there real quick And let's read some of that if you go to and this is

I think part of a series if I'm not mistaken Let's see. Can we? See here

All right, so you should all be seeing that now right you can see what I've been what I'm looking at Acts 10.

Oh Now losing my place here, what do we say 34 through 11 17

So this is Peter he says I most certainly understand now that the gospel is not one to show partiality

But in every nation the man who fears him it does What is right is welcome to him the word which he sent to the sons of Israel preaching peace through Jesus Christ He is

Lord of all you Yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea starting with from Galilee after the baptism was

John proclaimed You know Jesus of Nazareth how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with so he goes on He says

It says while Peter was still speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon those who are listening. So this is the story of Peter going and Cornelius his household, right and yeah,

Cornelius and The Gentiles are now Becoming saved so I'm not gonna read for you the rest of it

But this stems from the whole arise Peter kill and eat. Well, God has called Holy do not call in clean.

And so the Gentiles are saved and this is often unfortunately, I think a problem because this is really what this is is a

This is a Jew and Gentile thing and it's about the law. It's the law that the Jewish customs and the law

That are the definitive feature here and people often make this about something else they often make it about Some kind of they import it into a modern context where it's these modern differences in the

United States between different people groups and so forth and it it really wasn't that it this was specifically the

Jewish people had these certain dietary restrictions and other things that they would operate by and The Gentiles were out

Didn't operate by those things and can the Gentiles still be Gentile and be saved can they?

practice the true religion and the answer is yes, and so This isn't some kind of like this isn't civil rights integration stuff

But but here you have JD Greer and apparently they're still backing up this narrative so So he goes through the story a bit and I Think I don't want to focus on all of this

There was there's some specific lines that I thought were Particularly interesting the great white myth the great white myth when we repented of our racism all the blacks would come rushing back into our churches

Thanking their lucky stars. They could worship with us But what we learned is that a lot of black people preferred black worship and a lot of white people preferred white worship

A student to me complained about our church not being diverse enough and then later our church was too demonstrative in worship

Multicolored verse multicultural a lot of times we want diversity, but we really don't not just as in the church

I read an article in Atlantic that I guess back this up that we the neighborhoods people used to that They prefer mixed neighborhoods, but in reality, that's not where they live.

I pointed this out with JD Greer, though That's not where he lives either. That's part of the problem Like he wants to say these things, but he's and where is

Summit Church located and it's in an area there's a lot of black neighborhoods there Summit Church is is in a very white area of Durham so JD Greer, I just I can't see past this being just total hypocrisy and and that's what

I guess virtue signaling would be Right that like you're for these things, but you're not actually gonna live that that way There's actually there's so much in here to talk about I don't know if I want to talk about all of it

All racism comes from fear and insecurity I need something to help me feel significant because I don't obtain my worth insignificant from significance from God I'm just gonna ask you does this have anything to do with the story of Cornelius?

We've left that That's part of the problem with Greer. He does this all the time in my He does this when

I have examined his sermons almost every time Launches into some kind of application that let's just say that dog don't hunt.

It's not in the text Okay, he talks about we must pride to prioritize diverse leadership

Racially diverse congregations always have racially diverse leadership. We want those on stage to send a welcome signal to all races

And but they don't want tokenism so You don't want to put an unqualified person in a position of authority simply because of their skin color that is

Different than intentionally pursuing racial diversity. We're looking for qualified white people black people Asian people of every race so It's again like before he was saying hey, there's all these people who want to diversity

But they don't really don't but and he's one of them But then there's this where it's like we want these diverse leadership

But at the same time we don't want to just tokenism generally is you know You put someone whether they're qualified or not

You're just you feel the necessity to put someone of a different Race in a position of authority or leadership or on a board just to make sure that it looks diverse it's an optics thing more than anything else and This doesn't like it's not an argument against tokenism

Saying well, we just want to make sure that people are qualified it can still be tokenism He whether they're qualified or not, but he doesn't want clearly a merit -based system here

He wants merit. He's saying I want merit but he's wants it has to also be racially diverse

So these things can also compete with one another. What if you're in a situation where you can't have that? You don't have the numbers of people coming that and there aren't people qualified to be in those positions.

What do you do? You're creating this necessity that you must be diverse looking. So these things are incoherent

I want to skip to the end here There he says there's racism in their church, it's wicked and sinful some of you have experience with that he's sorry for it

We're gonna do everything we can to stop it It's great when you say those things, you know

These these things the world wants to bring a hammer down on you for and you know, there's no specifics It's just you know, our church is this way.

It's like the Matt Hall, you know I'm a racist only JD Greer is like our church. Our church has this problem.

I don't go there Maybe they do my church funny enough. My church doesn't have this problem. So what does that mean?

Does I mean are we superior to jail? Yeah, it's a funny thing to be like the guys who are generally conservative are like, you know,

I go to churches We don't seem to have this problem But that may tell you something right if the guys who are more on the woke train are complaining about this

Why why do you have that problem at your church? Acknowledge that your sinful flesh is racist.

Okay. Yeah, you you are racist your cultural preferences because you have cultural preferences

That makes you a racist you feel superior because of your race It's not and it's not necessarily a white thing or a

Latino thing an Asian thing. It's a sinful depraved human thing Yeah Yeah, if you prefer your culture guys,

I mean there's some bigotry there Some of you should consider going into missions. Oh, that's a great motive, right?

You know prove you could prove there. You're not racist if you go into missions And maybe that's what's holding you back.

You're just too racist. You know, you it's your community and in X me in quotes here

You want to leave your community and enter another? man

So here's what he said. This is what he says at the end He says we almost intentionally form relationships with people outside our comfort zone on all sides

If you don't do this, it will never happen to not be intentionally Intentional means to be intentionally non -diverse

You don't want to be intentionally non -diverse. Do you and I'm sure that's what what was being talked about That's what

Peter was doing in Acts chapter 10 and 11, right? He was just that's the moral lesson from it

He's like you don't want to be intentionally non -diverse It's silly the whole thing's silly. There's still though.

There's still Reinforcing this they're still posting these kinds of things. It's just pathetic that we're still talking about these things

But ten years later, what can we say about this is the church more diverse now in America is the church

More unified now is our things healthier as a result of this messaging being crammed down everyone's throat.

I would say it's much more Fractured it's much more

Balkanized and This has obviously been a failure and J .D. Greer should just preach the text and stop doing these silly applications

By J .D. Greer standard if he wasn't racist, he would move to Southeast Raleigh and put his kids in those schools

Yeah, he's not gonna do that Imagine the home value of J .D.

Greer's house is well worth of 1 million. I don't know. I haven't looked into his house So could be

What is black worship where in the Bible is that required? Yeah, you're not gonna find in there are you

What is white worship, yeah, it's It's funny. You don't find these categories in Scripture I mean you can say there's cultural things that different groups hymns and so forth, but This is why

I love the Reform tradition and sticking to singing psalms and hymns and there being no ethnic cultural relevance to our worship No partiality

I hate to break this to you Kathy But that is viewed as racist and I have been told numerous times like people that this is split churches

When you stick to those things because it comes from guess what English speakers in Anglo Parts of the world whether it's

England or the United States generally who are reinforcing things like Scottish snaps and Meters that are specific to Those musical traditions and styles.

You can't really escape culture. You're gonna have Culture if you can't transcend it and say like we're just we're not gonna have any cultural default

There is gonna be a cultural default of some kind and that's why I think some of this is silly Greer wants to have he wants to come to a situation where if you like mix all of these

Different cultures if you have the right ingredients, you won't have One dominating the other right there won't be any dominance of any one culture or something like that and I think there are people who are critical of that more on the

I don't know what you want to call them, but Some people call it medieval.

I hate using that word, but the I say little Eva I used to at least like there's there's guys who are critical of that But what they'll do is they're reaching for the same goal.

Like they want to transcend this and so they're going to claim whatever Their their tradition is is the neutral right?

And and then of course the what people call them out and say well That's not neutral. That's hymns hymns aren't That's not cultural singing hymns is cultural.

Yeah, definitely singing hymns I'm a music minister at my church. And so I have to make these calls all the time and People submit songs they want me to do and so forth and there's definitely cultural elements and it's not just with place

It's also with time so, you know one area at one time has a different style than but there's development in art and music and So yeah, absolutely.

Like if you go to Africa Parts of Africa and you want to do standard Anglican type hymns and Anglo Protestant hymns there are

Denominations and so forth that will do this but even when they do them They're not in the same way.

We would generally speaking at all. It's very different experience. So Yeah Yeah, so anyway not to I don't want to poopoo your point

Kathy because no you make a I think actually a good point in that This is you're looking at the theology of these things, right you're looking at the richness the depth

You're you're trying to evaluate things by that metric and say you're not The cultural things aren't at the front of your mind as far as like we want

Anglo Protestant stuff here like that's gonna happen naturally depending on the makeup of your church But you're looking at things more in terms of what will actually help us worship, right?

And I think that is the right approach I and I think that's probably what you're saying there So, all right

And now I hope hopefully not sparking a huge debate about that last but not least. I want to talk about this

Templeton, all right, so the Templeton Foundation someone pointed this out to me and maybe others have more information

But this guy Thomas J. Ord who wrote the book on LGBTQ normalization in the

Church of the Nazarene and one of his books is this from 2004 the science of love It says that this the

Templeton base Foundation press helps intellectual leaders and others learn about science research and aspects of reality invisible intangible spiritual realities including unlimited love

Accelerating creativity worship and benefits of purpose in persons in the cosmos Interesting So the

Templeton Foundation is the one that put this out from Thomas J Ord so someone started beginning curious and started looking things up Found out that the

John Templeton Foundation has a religion science and society section on their website and It's a grant it's for grants so you can get a grant if you want to learn about Certain or research certain things.

What can we learn from world's wisdom traditions about living good and purposeful lives? So this would not just be Christianity, but other religions and traditions

How are religious beliefs practices and communities changing and being changed around the world today? What does it mean to be spiritual and how does it impact our beliefs values and customs is obviously not

Christian this is This is for the purposes of research and it's broad, right? and They want to do they want to they have a goal though the goal of this topical area is to advance our understanding of how people develop meaningful lives and Pursue spiritual flourishing in a rapidly changing world

We are particularly interested in interdisciplinary projects So Let's see integration of religion spirituality or faith with the practice of health care

Facilitate community -based research designs examined the impact of faith -based communities on health of communities

It's pretty broad pretty general But They funded this guy

In part they funded some of the activities of this guy Who's really pushing the needle left when it comes to LGBTQ stuff in the

Church of the Nazarene? from the American Journal of Theology and Psychology reviewing the

Thomas Jay Ward's book the uncontrolling love of God it says that The open and relational theologies group of the

American Academy of Religion has been one of the best attended and most successful groups Within the AAR. Let's see

Okay, he has talking about Thomas Jay Ward He has considerable success in receiving funding from the

Templeton Foundation For a number of projects one of these was a marathon two -week religion science conference at Eastern Nazarene University The participants were evangelical theologians and scientists along with liberal theologians who came from evangelical backgrounds the conference wrestled with the ramifications of science for evangelicalism

I Can only guess what that probably would have looked like with these liberal theologians there and and he's a

Considerable success getting all this money from this organization. So you people ask the question How does someone like a

Thomas Jay Ward who doesn't believe in the Nazarene's doctrine on sexual ethics? How come he has so much influence?

How come he's allowed to publish how come for years? He's allowed to be there and I'm telling you this is part of the reason he's bringing with him.

There's there's strings attached There's money attached. I Think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw or Well, let me take it back one step.

It's a reasonable suspicion to have that that would motivate When there's strings like this if you want to have your mind blown a little more

This is from the two windows project which is Let's see here

The organization was able to provide funding because of a grant received from the Templeton Foundation So they got this grant and they did a panel on Sunday, November 6 at the

Midtown Church of the Nazarene In the beginning, you know was science and theology conversation.

So they held this event at a Nazarene Church is 2016 Apparently this is the same church

Love to love church of loves to love Church of the Nazarene. This is the same church that did love wins

LGBT Same place that's doing that apparently, so I'm not saying the

Templeton Foundation funded that particular thing But that's the kind of church that the money is going to and it's overtly pro -lgbt

Here's a review I'm not going to get into this now a conversations on sexuality a review of the two windows project

So this two windows project, which is funded by the Templeton Foundation though did a whole thing on on and then got into LGBTQ community in the

Christian community and these LGBTQ plus quote -unquote issues

Templeton Foundation is funding some of this Belmont University, this is

Okay, this is a different grant. So that's the Templeton Foundation. And then I noticed this I think Megan Basham first exposed this

I Don't know if it was Megan someone did Belmont University receives grant to study how religion can reduce political polarization

What's the motivation of some of this Belmont University professor will help lead a grant research project on how religion can reduce polarization

Belmont received $575 ,655. Well, that's a bunch of change to grant.

Oh, here it is Sorry, this is related to John Templeton a grant from the John Templeton Foundation to support a three -year cross -denominational survey

So my bad, this is also related from the John so They're researching politics religion

LGBTQ stuff gets put into here The research is crucial for identifying approaches to increase tolerance and civility.

So they want to heal this political divide and They're going to do it

A form Wow, but I didn't know that did I know that Belmont was formerly

Southern Baptist, I guess huh? So there There's a large group of people out there who do not seem to want evangelicals to be politically

Active at least they want they want to neutralize political support because but evangelicals have been overwhelmingly

Republican for the last 40 50 years and There are groups that are willing to fund as well

I think's happening to fund the the study of the they're willing to do whatever they can to neutralize that voting bloc

I think that's what's going on here. That's my and yes, that is the opinion of John Harris, but you don't see as Much of this stuff coming from the right it happens like there are and there should be the right -wing think tanks and organizations that are funding biblical orthodoxy and Moral integrity in these kinds of things, but I Think the assumption has been that the left kind of tends to its own

Maybe they're funding that LGBTQ friendly church that's got a rainbow flag down the road they're making inroads into your conservative denominations and organizations guys and They see that like the right doesn't do this to like the right isn't looking at you know, hey look the

United Methodist Church Let's go or the Presbyterian Church USA, let's give them a bunch of money to do something the right wing think tanks and organizations

Don't do that left -wing ones do and so I think there's a subversive thing going in here

Alright, that's it for the podcast. I'll take a few questions and then we got to go. Oh, no, that's not it

Okay, one last thing. I got to play this. This is from who is this? Nt, right This is part of the internet and television and so on But it's picked up steam where people are unable to separate out issues when

I go to America it always astonishes me that the same people are vitriolically opposed to abortion and Vitriolically in favor of everybody carrying guns and being prepared to shoot people at any time on the one hand

You'd have thought if they're so concerned about preserving human life, even in embryo and in vitro, etc

Then why are they not concerned about preserving human life when it comes to say a school shooting by somebody who's been able to walk into a store even though mentally

Disturbed and by a weapon grade Automatic rifle. I mean for somebody from the other side of the

Atlantic and I suspect for you in Canada This is just nonsense and but but if you try to all right,

I can't take anymore I'm sorry guys. The clip does go on but I can't take it. It's just it's it's

I don't life is too short And I did see Michael Byrd this morning and a guy from Australia Who's I would say more he likes to be in the evangelical camp, but more liberal and he was commending this

I guess and Yeah, like people from Canada Australia Great Britain. They're gonna have a different view on this but it's there is a conflation obviously going on there abortion is murder and Have Securing firearms to not just defend oneself, but also for various purposes like hunting

Protecting, you know cattle if you're out on the range somewhere. I mean, there's there's all these other purposes for it

Sport shooting whatever that is not the same thing having a gun. And so he's saying that the laws are such that Someone who's mentally disturbed can just go get a gun and that's not the case necessarily either there are regulations, but There's gonna be people who fall through the cracks and because those people are out there and there are mentally disturbed people

Then you need to be able to defend yourself. I saw in England video It's been you went viral of a knife attack and these immigrant groups,

I guess It was a bunch of guys immigrants who were attacking this look like a native

Britain guy and stabs him in the neck and and this kind of the stabbings happen all the time there

But you're not supposed to have If I'm not mistaken in Britain, I think that's even something that they tried to regulate if I'm not mistaken knives but If you're a law -abiding citizen and you're being attacked by someone who has a weapon of some kind You can't defend yourself and this guy didn't have he didn't have a knife

He couldn't defend himself and that's part of the reason in America. We do have guns is to Because we want it's the same motivation

For conservatives who want to ban abortion because they want to preserve life and they want to punish murder really it's the same motivation for self -defense with guns we should want to preserve life and defend against those who would try to kill people and And we have had several shootings potential shootings that were stopped by someone with a gun

So it's just silly. It's It's the I think it's just because he's in England to be honest with you

So All right One more question and then I'll I'm gonna go the fact that this astonishes

NT right just goes to show that he is way Overrated. He's an intellectual lightweight. He should have been named

NT wrong Yeah, I know I think I was someone said he illustrates away why

UK Canada and Australia have no freedom of speech No, first amendment. No Second Amendment Yeah, I don't know specifically what they have it though.

And I just know they don't have the same laws that we do Just trust the government guys. They're the only ones wise enough to handle guns.

Yeah I do think that there are there are prudential reasons in certain environments to limit firearm

Ownership or or I shouldn't say ownership but carrying firearms, you know, you know, you watch those old

Western movies You know and guy comes into town and it's like hey, we you know, we're not allowing guns in town. We're gonna stop you and You know, of course that does make people vulnerable if there is one guy who has the gun

But you know that if you have law enforcement, it's a small town, you know I guess the idea is that the it's better to the odds are better of Less violence, especially if you have a group of people who are trigger happy In that scenario then there would be

Otherwise, you know if everyone was carrying a gun in a high -trust society. Everyone really can carry a gun

I think of like the Boers in South Africa pretty high trust among themselves they can carry weapons all over the place and they need them actually because of what they're undergoing and But they're not shooting each other.

They're That that's the example the first example that came to mind but when you have society social disintegration and And you're trying to bring in law and order with a heavy hand then

I can see certain situations where you would want to limit That possibly I think we get afraid of that and rightly so because we know in our country our

Experiences that that's going to lead to law -abiding citizens being taken their protection being yet taken away from them and so in general,

I oppose all of these things, but But I I'm just telling you like I can see

I can see it from the other side or not the other side But I can see like in a place like Great Britain where Man, I mean graver.

It's not the best example actually because I'm thinking of our inner cities but if Great Britain has some of these parallels

I can see where you you might if you could like Severely decrease the flow of guns, which you really can't very easily in especially somewhere like the

United States Great Britain's an island which maybe helps a little but If you were able to severely decrease that and you had a strong law law enforcement presence and people were just Irresponsible across the board.

We've got these murders in Chicago all the time I can see limitations I can see Requiring Extra training or something or extra vetting for a permit

I could see in the right situations these things but we just don't have them I we don't trust our leaders and we have too many people who are crazy who want to use guns to kill others or knives and You know, what's a 5 -3 woman gonna do against a 6 -2 guy with a knife?

You give her a knife. It still doesn't even it but if you give her a gun it does so so I'm very much in favor of Responsible firearm access to firearms and so forth

Thank goodness we don't have shootings at our gun -free public schools. Yeah, because they're it's not realistic it's

Unless you have like strong security and You check in everyone at the door and stuff like something

If all it takes is one guy to get in right and then everyone's a sitting duck. That's part of the problem

I loved it at Liberty University where we were all encouraged to carry and you didn't know who was carrying and who wasn't but again,

Liberty University the students the teachers generally these are responsible people for them like it's not like other colleges that I won't name and So it's a very safe place to be

I felt so safe there and I knew there were professors that One of them I knew he had a gun he carried with him to class.

It was great I love that but I trusted them and there was high trust. So All right, we got to go