August 29, 2016 Show with David Gornoski on “Enshrining Chaos as Justice: Should Christians Support the Use of Violence & Domination to Subdue Those Who Disagree With Us?” PLUS Josh Fryman on “The Centrality of Christ Throughout Redemptive History”

Program Introduction and the Day’s Two Guests

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 29th of August, 2016, and we've got two guests today.

One that I'm interviewing for the very first time during our first hour, David Gronosky, who is a Christian libertarian, and we're going to be discussing enshrining chaos as justice. Should Christians support the use of violence and domination to subdue those who disagree with us?

In the second hour, I'm going to be joined by an old friend who's been on this broadcast a number of times, Joshua Fryman, who is pastor of community church in Riverhead, Long Island, New York, and he's a featured conference speaker at the 2016 Christ Our Redeemer conference at Pittsboro Baptist Church in Indiana, and that second hour we'll be addressing the centrality of Christ throughout redemptive history.

Christian Libertarianism, Nonviolence, and the Drug War

But first of all, our first guest today, as I mentioned earlier, David Gronosky, is a writer for World Net Daily, a fellow of the Moving Picture Institute, a guest contributor to affluentinvestor .com and Altar and Throne, and he's a featured journalist in the New York Times, St. Pete Times, thestreet .com, and the Discovery Institute.

He's also a producer for a nationally syndicated radio program as well as an on-air personality and founder of A Neighbor's Choice, an educational platform for introducing Jesus's culture of nonviolence to Christians from a neighborly perspective.

And as I said earlier, we're going to be addressing the theme in Shrining Chaos as Justice, Should Christians Support the Use of Violence and Domination to Subdue Those Who Disagree With Us? It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron.

Sharpens Iron, David Gronosky. Thank you. Thanks for having me, and I'm glad to be here.

Yeah, it's my pleasure to have you on the program. Well, first of all, tell us something about what you view Christian libertarianism to be in a summary form. We've had several folks who represent that category of political theory, and there are, I know, differences of opinion even within that genre of political philosophy.

There are, obviously, just as there are differences of opinion in most other ideologies and facets of life, but tell us about your particular.

Expression of Christian libertarianism in a summary form. Well, I understand the modern libertarian movement. It's also no longer have to have the tyranny of death and your desires. If you don't have freedom from coercion, you're not going to really...

And tell us something about the Affluent Investor. Well, that's a group from Jerry.

Bowder. He's a great website as a kind of alternative for information. Yeah, that is quite interesting because a lot of people, perhaps your average.

Evangelical, for instance, who has conservative leanings in most areas of his life, they would be surprised to hear that there is some commonality between libertarianism and historic conservatism because, as you were saying before, when they hear folks like Gary Johnson and modern libertarians in the media, they immediately associate it with liberalism in regard to most moral and social ideology.

Obviously, they would have to admit that there would be some conservative views fiscally that are attributed to these modern libertarians. Hello, can you hear me, David? David, are you there? For some reason, David is not with us right now.

He cannot hear me, and I'm not sure why. So what we're going to do is we're going to go to a station break, and we're going to try to find out what happened to David. So if you'd like to join us on the air, we have an email address here, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play and together. Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Waldeman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402. Or visit linbrookbaptist .org. That's linbrookbaptist .org. David, are you there?

Yes. Okay, I don't know what happened there.

Yeah, I just, I couldn't hear you. The phone's still going, but I couldn't hear it.

That's, that's interesting because I heard you loud and clear. So I'm not sure, I'm not sure what happened. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. As I was saying, when we lost communication there, your average evangelical might be quite surprised that there is a lot in harmony between historic or paleo libertarianism and historic conservatism.

They immediately, very often, will have a knee-jerk reaction to libertarianism and associate it with liberalism, although they would have to admit that there is fiscal conservatism involved with the modern libertarians.

They would immediately, very often, associate people like Gary Johnson and the modern libertarians with liberalism and, in fact, sometimes extreme liberalism when it comes to matters of social and moral ethics and so on.

Well, I think that if you don't have, and you're not showing paganism, what I mean by that is it's very ubiquitous to maintain order and catharsis and peace in society. And what Jesus is showing us is that we don't need our peace.

We don't need to have common enemies to purge and to put all of our blame onto because he's dismantled that system from being able to be necessary. Anytime you try to have a conservatism...

Well, what you're saying actually reminds me of something one of our founding fathers, John Adams, said about the Constitution when he said, our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people.

It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

Right. And that's the thing is that, you know, I'm against, for example, the drug war, but I don't think you should do drugs. That's right. And Christ, when he comes, you're trying to say not to use laws for it.

So, for example, you know, Jesus was accused of being a winebibber because he was hanging out with a winebibber. So, in the same sense, you know, then they typically... You're not saying this in a systematic way, harder drugs.

Every time we ban drugs, something harder comes out on the black market, and it's even worse.

Yeah, well, that's what our government seems to have forgotten, as well as many of our citizens seems to have forgotten. What happened with prohibition in the earlier part of the 1900s, it really created the mafia, created organized crime.

And it's interesting how people can't see the comparison between that and the drug problem. Basically, what you're saying, and of course, correct me if I'm wrong, is that there is a difference between having biblical, moral, and social values, and believing that a human government that often consists of people that don't even share our faith, ruling over us to basically protect us from ourselves and our decisions, even if they're stupid ones.

Yeah, and, you know, a lot of people don't have a Bible, you know, for nonviolent in prison, if they were monitoring everything you did. You know, that's something that has the absence of one another, and they tend to...

Now, if you don't believe in a prison system, how on earth can we, as law-abiding citizens, be protected from dangerous criminals?

Well, you know, there's a two-part answer to that. The one, first, to a violent thing until such time as, you know, people on the street. So, anything that you can do as a Christian yourself, you have the principle of what is true law.

Drinking raw milk is a crime to do that. By theory, you know, here, if it's raw milk, you wouldn't be within your moral right to, you know, grab a guy, tase him, and such time as I say fit. You would find that insane to do that yourself.

But we do it every day when we hire politicians who say they're going to continue to drink. You know, I tell people, liberty is all about best hiring practice. If you have a business, you don't hire someone.

You say, great, I'm going to hire you, start on Monday, and then next week, you hear from one of your vendors, they call you up and they say, hey, this guy, who is this new vendor rep we have? He broke my legs.

What's going on here? And you say, it's not my fault. I have nothing to do with it. Of course, it's your fault, right? You hired that person. And in the process of the hiring process, they told you they were going to use violence against someone to get their way.

And you said, okay. And then they went and did it. That means you're responsible for the violence that they do. And the same thing as they're joining you. If you hire someone and they tell you in the past that they're going to use violence, good, I'll hire you as my president.

And you're responsible for what they're doing.

So what do you do with those people who may not be a physical danger to us, but those people who have robbed people, even in white-collar crimes, of millions of dollars? How do you punish people for disobeying the laws of the land in that way?

Well, in the Bible, you know, they had usually a two-to-one payback, right? So if you stole a dollar, you had to pay tightly. And that would be... I think you need to do that in a way, you know, vengeance is mine.

You don't have a right to get vengeance on people. So if someone gives you dollars, put them away from society for a time so they don't keep on doing that. They're a menace to society. They're robbing.

And that's not something you just allow to happen. You don't do it in a way where you try to be careful what the government says is fraudulent, because they'll say, you know, vitamin C, you know, that cures scurvy.

If you say vitamin C cures scurvy, then they say that's a fraudulent health claim. And they have the right to put you in a cage for that, even though we know vitamin C gets rid of scurvy.

Yeah, I've heard of someone in New York, I believe, who was arrested because he became convinced that apricot pits, I believe, had some kind of medicinal properties that were able to control and perhaps even cure cancer.

And he was fined and imprisoned when he stopped, when he wouldn't stop selling these products. But so obviously, even you as a Christian libertarian, what's the actual phrase that you like to use to describe yourself?

Is Christian libertarian adequate? Or is there something else?

I usually actually don't even use the term libertarian. But I, I'm around so many, I just think it's Christian. You know, if you're in it, I take the definition of Christian kind of literally, you know, like a Christian would be doing is looking at the pattern of Jesus's life and the way I treat my neighbor.

And obviously, you believe that even if you were to get your way, if you will, if you were to have your political vision become reality, you seem to be insinuating that there would need to be perhaps even a very lengthy period of time of transition, where things could not be transformed overnight and immediately start doing things radically different in, you know, in society where we would have to basically wean ourself off of things.

Is that what you're basically saying?

Well, you know, it may be like that, but it's a tricky subject. Because again, I really believe that you're not allowed to do as a Christian yourself. And so I kind of take that. I think we all should.

So I think that would radically change the law system in our society. If Christians actually will be voters and say, wait a second, is this person I'm hiring, is he only going to use the violence of this whole real violence?

Is the actual real violence of actually possibly, you know, hiring someone to do something that there would be a radical charity. But again, you know, in the reason morality and making of the law, wait a second, we've got to make sure we get this clear.

So you're saying if there was a law, you could not simply a full verdict as guilty? I said, of course not, because there's a whole group of people joining me and putting someone in a cage, a human cage for using a blue pin.

And again, the whole room was aghast that someone wouldn't just blindly put someone in a cage for using a blue pin. I thought I was in like a TV show or something. This is like the Twilight Zone. Now, these people were everyday folks that, you know, they'd save you from maybe a calamity in the real world.

But the Bible wants us to take account of this first woman. He says, who's going to catch the first stone? And it's not appropriate. I mean, even if you want to be technical about, well, you know, you need to follow the law, right?

Some people use that argument. You just, well, guess what our Caesar tells us? Thomas Jefferson is one of the Caesars of our country. He's one of the architects as a way to creatively radical laws. So when the founder of your state government.

I want to give our email address. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. We already have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered by you, David. We're going to go to a break right now.

And if you'd like to join them with a question of your own, just shoot us an email at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with David Gronosky.

The Drug War, Black Lives Matter, and Punishment for Crime

Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective. Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting. I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter. I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community. This trial includes biweekly issues of World Magazine, on scene reporting from World Radio and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit WMG .org forward slash Iron Sharpens to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free. No obligation with no credit card required. Visit World News Group at WMG .org forward slash Iron Sharpens today.

Attention coin collectors and investors. Long Island Galleries of Wading River, New York has brilliant uncirculated 19th century Morgan silver dollars for only $54 per coin with free shipping and handling for a limited time.

There's a 40 coin limit, so order now while supplies last. Call 888 -260 -8111, 888 -260 -8111. Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express welcome. Price is subject to change, so call now at 888 -260 -8111, 888 -260 -8111.

If you prefer ordering your brilliant uncirculated 19th century Morgan silver dollars by check, mail it today to Long Island Galleries, 9 Susan Drive, Wading River, New York, 11792. That's Long Island Galleries, 9 Susan Drive, Wading River, New York, 11792.

Remember, they're only $54 per coin with free shipping and handling and a 40 coin limit. New York State residents must add sales tax. Long Island Galleries is honored to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

See the Long Island Galleries display ad at ironsharpensironradio .com. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our first guest for the first hour of the program is David Gronosky, who's a writer for World Net Daily, and he is founder of A Neighbor's Choice, an educational platform for introducing Jesus's culture of non-violence to Christians from a neighborly perspective.

We're discussing as our theme today, enshrining chaos as justice. Should Christians support the use of violence and domination to subdue those who disagree with us? And our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

We do have a few people waiting to have their questions asked and answered. But before I go to the listeners, David, I wanted you to tie into our subject an article that you wrote not long ago, in July, in fact, on if Black Lives Mattered to you.

How is this article you wrote, that theme, the Black Lives Matter uh, groups and people who fly under that banner, uh, who, uh, also have been unfortunately involved in riotous behavior and so on. If you could, uh, tie this, uh, subject all together with that.

Laws that the idea is Black Lives Matter to you. You wouldn't put people in a cage struggling because they didn't have a parent or a shot. And there's really targets for things like, you know, well, you didn't fix your taillight.

So you're going to have a, you can't afford that one of these problems, but you can't really police allowing them to do that. I was hired these people with a gun to get something. It's something insane about a society that's not Christian.

You know, a Christian society doesn't bring a gun. Hey, fix your taillight or I'm going to take money. That's not what only Christians know. And in things like theft, like petty thievery. Again, we need to adopt the biblical concept.

Pay that back two to one. So, you know, I know, you know, stories of where she got, uh, three to one, two to one and give them a chance to dehumanize them.

And obviously there has to be some kind of a penalty. If they refuse to comply with, uh, the penalty that they've already been given, uh, whatever, whatever more lenient penalty that is, there needs to be a more serious one.

If they refuse to comply, wouldn't you say?

Oh, yeah.

If somebody just out in that refuses to obey the law and they refuse to, uh, adhere to the consequences, no matter what they are. Shouldn't there be some kind of a way of enforcing that? David, are you there?

Uh, for some reason, David is gone again. I'm not sure what's happening with David's phone line. And hopefully we're going to, after we go to this final break with David, um, hopefully we're going to hear back from David.

And, um, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. We're going to get a one more station break. And, uh, hopefully, uh, this will be resolved by the time David calls back.

Well, David's calling back now. So perhaps we don't even have to,. David, are you there?

Yes.

Yeah. I don't know what keeps happening, David. I guess in the future, we'd have to make sure you use a landline.

Yeah, that's fine. We'll do that next time.

Uh, what I was saying is doesn't there need to be some sort of punishment that someone receives if they refuse. Even the lenient, uh, forms of discipline, punishment, the, the, the, the more lenient consequences of disobeying laws, doesn't there need to be some way to, uh, prevent anarchy and chaos?

Yeah. Again, if it's a violent act, someone's going to be service or payback, you know, two to one, what they did. But, uh, I don't think most people, if they had the choice, would choose jail over being able to work at all, even petty stuff like that.

I think that'd be take care of. But if they get a cage for it, because if you reframe them, you could restrain the attacker and you'd be within your Christian right. But you wouldn't be within your Christian rights to do that.

If it was a nonviolent thing, like maybe you saw a pastor for violence to use violence. Of course not. It's such an absurd concept.

Well, that's what the, that's what those who are at least in the limelight of the media, the ones running the black lives matter. Uh, what's, I don't know what phrase to use for it. Cause I don't know if it's a specific organization or just a movement, but, uh, the ones that are in the limelight of leadership that you see, they, they, they are advocating this kind of violence and, and even seem to be, uh, actually participating in, in not only, uh, calling upon their fellow, uh, African-Americans to, uh, kill police and so on, or, or perform acts of violence.

But, uh, they are in some ways, uh, participating in these acts of violence on occasion themselves, as far as riotous behavior. And it seems, it always seems to me quite, um, ironic that in these very urban, uh, these very urban neighborhoods where there are people who have been trying to serve those communities with providing, you know, any kind of a business like a grocery store or any kind of a convenience store, uh, and they do so very often at their own risk of safety.

When these riots occur, as they are really used as an excuse to steal and to vandalize and to unleash the total, totally depraved nature of their souls, it seems.

Yeah. Well, you know, those, those riots are, that's actually a reflection of the state because the state is chaos, like flating and debasing. Really the state, there's a lot of, by a lot of the people with any movement, though, to be honest, I mean, like the Tea Party, some people were saying crazy things and they got blended in with people who were just trying to talk about constitutional principles.

You always tend to have that with these movements that spread when everybody can just adopt the phrase and use it. It's kind of hard to tell who's who, but you just have to speak principle in the midst of all that.

Well, of course, uh, the difference is that, I don't know if you've seen something that I haven't seen, but I haven't seen, uh, mobs of hundreds of Tea Partiers vandalizing and robbing and beating up passersby, uh, when they're, when they don't have their way in a particular legal action or something.

All right. Uh, we do have a listener, uh, in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, Linda, who asks, I recently belonged to a church where many members got into Christian libertarianism. All seemed fine until they started following Ian Rand's theories, which caused them to be very anti-police, anti-borders.

These ideas actually divided the church and many.

Members left. Can you speak to this problem. That she was, she was a Russian American philosopher.

In the earlier part of the 1900s, actually through perhaps the mid to later part of the 1900s.

Correct. Yeah. And so I'm not really familiar with the inner workings of her world, but for a desire since Augustine is close to that. Yeah. Well, she was an atheist. So, yeah. So I don't know much about Ian Rand in terms of, you know, what she's doing, but, um, that really is not, again, just like, again, the Black Lives Matter Tea Party, there's a term libertarian say, what are you?

And, you know, I'm not anti-police on the voters that are hiring these people to do this. Now, certainly they're in account of your responsibility and pulling the trigger, so to speak for the continuance of undoing my job, um, you know, be aware and that's up to the policeman to have his conscience awakened by Jesus.

Like Paul said, why are you personally killed for nonviolent beliefs in Christianity? One of the things I know that you said already.

Earlier that you don't, uh, specifically identify yourself as a libertarian, but you do have a lot of affiliations with libertarians and there are a lot of similarities that you have with at least the paleo libertarian group.

Uh, the, one of the things that I don't understand about a lot of libertarians is their, what seems to be lax view of securing and protecting borders in the United States. I completely understand the opposition to sending the brave young men and women in our military overseas to participate in conflicts that we have no business in involving ourselves in and having, uh, the children of American citizens killed over on battlefields to fight other people's battles that in many cases will never be resolved on this earth, especially when you're talking about the Islamic conflicts in other parts of the world that have already been going on for centuries and on occasion, like what happened in Iraq, uh, Christian missionaries will be the first to tell you that, that Iraq is a much more dangerous place for them than it was when, uh, Saddam Hussein was, uh, the dictator over there.

I mean, sometimes, unfortunately, these more secular Muslim deck dictators, uh, keep the more violent extremists in line. But having said that, I understand that part, but I don't understand why making sure our borders are very strictly guarded and protected, why that would be in any way, a violation of a libertarian concept.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The new American standard Bible is perfect for daily.

Sorry about that. That was a commercial that started before it was supposed to.

Be. Well, runaway prophets. Yeah. Well, you know, with borders, again, that's something I tend to be on. It's not, it's, it's kind of a complicated issue because in a libertarian world, or let's just put private property on private rules, which would say, yes, we allow the free travel of people on our property and our roads, but we don't have that right now.

I'm just unjustly gained by, uh, you know, probably holding onto these land perfect world. There was a private border about that way. It's crazy to a country like ours with a giant welfare Syrian by saying, let everybody come in.

Uh, you're really setting them up for failure because they're going to participate. Having that much influence really just at the end of the day, if you were that they do now would be priced, significantly higher, like taking care of.

So, well, by the way, uh, Linda in Hilltop tech,.

Hilltop lakes, Texas, I forgot to mention, uh, that you, since you're a first time questioner, uh, first time submitting a question to an iron sharpens iron guest, you're getting an absolutely free copy of the new American standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the new American standard Bible.

And it will be shipped out to you compliments of Cumberland valley, Bible book service, CV, BBS .com CV, BBS .com. And this is a really beautiful edition of the NASB. It's got, uh, an embossed cross on the cover.

It's just very attractive. And I'm sure you'll enjoy that. It's also, uh, just about the right size that, uh, you as a woman could fit into your pocketbook or purse very easily. Uh, a man could, uh, possibly fit it into a coat pocket.

Uh, it's a little bit bigger than a pocket version, but it's, it's just a beautiful edition and I hope you enjoy it. And we need your full mailing address to get that out to you, but thank you very much for submitting the question.

Uh, so you're, you're making it clear just, just so we get, we make sure we're on the right, uh, or on the same page here. And so that nobody misunderstands you. You're certainly not a full blown pacifist and you believe that violence, uh, can be very right and decent and moral when you are reacting in defense of yourself, your family, your children, uh, against a violent attacker.

And that of course can take many forms. It could be a, a murderer. It could be somebody who is violently, uh, breaking into your home or trying to sexually assault you or your children or your wife or whoever.

There is a, there is a right role for violence in even a Christian's life, isn't there?

Yeah. I don't even, I wouldn't even call that violence. I just called that defense fucked about it, you know, but, uh, I think violence is the initiation of aggression. You know, you have a right to protest, but you don't have a right.

Suppose they killed everybody in your family and you lost the fight. Uh, you wouldn't have a Christian right to go to their neighborhood and kill their family. Oh, of course. Right. So you, that's a difference, right?

And so it's not just carp, you know, that's not what we're allowed to do, but you're allowed to use, you know, defensive force to protect victims. Well, you have to take the,.

You have to take the fun out of life. Don't you, David? Well, obviously though, um, see, I'm not even opposed to an armed homeowner. If somebody is climbing through their window, I'm not opposed to that person shooting that intruder because you don't know what they're to do.

You don't, you can't read their mind if they're there just to steal food or to molest your children or kidnap them and kill them. I mean, wouldn't that be appropriate for a Christian.

To do that? Again, it's, it's one of those things that plays out and they're just, uh, you know, taking, uh, taking your car that you need to wait. Yeah. Well, I would view that as.

A different issue from climbing through your window. I mean, in the heat of the moment,.

It's hard to say, you know, I think in some sense, though, equal right to particular, that might take another, I don't think. You have a right to your life and the sides of those who are vulnerable around you, like your family and your, uh, framework has been.

Yes. And, uh, going back to an issue that, uh, perhaps I just touched on a little bit when I was speaking about, uh, illegal, uh, military activity that we as a nation have been involved in overseas involved, involving ourselves in conflicts that are none of our business.

Having said that, um, it would seem that those who love liberty and freedom as much as you and libertarians do, they would have to understand that a strong, a very strong military is required to maintain that.

Otherwise others in other nations, or even in our own land are going to take that from us as soon as they realize that we are weak and they have an opportunity to do so.

Isn't that true? Yeah, but I think it, uh, again, to the true principle of it all, I think it would be, um, I'm okay with what we have now because I'm not a utopian person. I'm okay with it. But if you really think about it, imagine if you gave Walmart an exclusive, uh, monopoly on providing milk, it would be overly when you give someone a monopoly on the product.

And it's the same thing that happens with our government's military services. They have a monopoly on using defensive force, a lot of waste do nothing, but we've given them, including our people that, that serve their honorable mission system where you pay a subscription fee every month, the ready in case.

And I think because of the market forces and competition, they would be able to provide a very highly efficient superior to status attackers because they wouldn't have the waste that government inherently brings to the table and they to be able to take care of the props.

Well, I would like you, uh, in the next two.

Minutes to basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners.

Today. I just encourage everybody to think as we get into this election, uh, we wrap it up and go on to be a Christian. Don't use violence against nonviolent people that himself, he doesn't initiate. We need to have that same who we, uh, um, consider that is that, you know, for example, think about it this way.

If we allow a state wise nonviolent behavior to kind of milk you or the kind of criminalized right now, because we seeded the principle long ago, doing nonviolent things, we cannot feed that principle and feed it in a safe way.

So, and, uh, the Christians may be the first to find out in the years ahead, how true that is,.

Because I'm sure the further left that our government drifts, or should I say, really, uh, speeds, uh, with great acceleration into that direction. Um, that more and more people who are sticking up for biblical morality and truth will be imprisoned and so on.

And we will have those words that you just said, echoing in our minds, um, wishing that we had a government that did treat its citizens that way. But, uh, if you could, if you have any, uh, contact information that you'd like to share for listeners or a website or URL that, uh, they could find some.

Of your writings. My email is at email .com all together, although, uh, yeah, email me if you'd like to be, I'm speaking at different groups around Florida. I went to Austin last, uh, this, this month with the Christians for Liberty Conference and everywhere I go, people are really excited when they realize that Jesus is the founder of the true liberty movement and, and he's relevant more than issues that are facing our nation.

So, uh, they're welcome to email me there, or you can read my articles at fee .gov. I keep saying fee .gov and they're like fee .org.

Yeah, I can't imagine a libertarian having his articles on anything with a dot gov.

I guess I just associate fees with the government so much that I keep saying fee .gov.

Right, right.

Dot org. So fee .org, wnd .com, affluentinvestor, um, altarandthrone .com. The American conservative should have a piece up this week from me about how to chart time. Um, so that should be interesting.

So, and of course there's worldnetdaily's website, wnd .com for worldnetdaily, wnd .com.

That's right.

Well, thank you so much, David, and look forward to having you back on the program.

Thank you. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Well, God bless. And, uh, we're going to be joined any moment now by, uh, Pastor Josh Freiman of Community Baptist Church in Riverhead, Long Island, New York. And we're going to be discussing the centrality of Christ throughout redemptive history.

If you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsonatgmail .com. Chrisarnsonatgmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Pastor Josh Freiman of Community Baptist Church.