June 29, 2022 Show with Ron Glass on “A Classic, Calvinistic Dispensationalist Examines Ultra Dispensationalism, Progressive Dispensationalism, & Progressive Covenantalism”

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Wishing you all a happy Wednesday.

On this 29th day of June 2022 I

am interviewing a man who is very near and dear to my heart.

His name is Ron glass and He is one of the

individuals that God has used To bring iron sharpens iron radio

back on the air.

When we relaunched after a four -year absence from the airways in

2015.

He was at the time pastor of waiting River Baptist Church and waiting River Long Island, New York and

Ron was one of a few of my former advertisers on

WMC.

On I'm sorry WNYG radio, I was confusing two radio stations that I

both were where I worked at both of them and WNYG

radio is where iron sharpens iron radio began in Babylon, Long Island and

Ron was one of the largest supporters of that program and

After going off the air subsequent to the passing of my late wife Julie.

And finding it mentally Impossible to conduct the program for a while.

Ron was one of those few Voices in my ear urging me to go back on the air.

And he actually and he and waiting River Baptist Church made it financially possible for me

to go back on the air purchasing all the equipment I needed for the studio and

So therefore I am obviously forever in his debt and the debt of waiting River Baptist Church and waiting River,

Long Island, New York.

Ron glass is former adjunct professor of Bible exposition at Talbot School of

Theology and before his retirement from pastoral ministry Was the pastor of

waiting River Baptist Church and waiting River, Long Island, New York as I just mentioned from 1993 to.

2018.

Today we're going to be discussing an interesting topic.

I am not personally a dispensationalist but anyone who knows Pastor Ron

glass knows that he is just as thoroughly committed to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace

known as Calvinism as he is to dispensationalism and some of my greatest

heroes of the faith would be in that number including John MacArthur and I consider Ron

glass one of my heroes of the faith.

Especially because of his love for me and this program and his commitment

to see this program exist and continue.

Today we are going to be addressing the theme a classic Calvinist dispensationalist examines

ultra dispensationalism progressive dispensationalism and Progressive

covenantalism and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back To iron sharpens iron radio after a long

absence.

Pastor Ron glass.

Yeah, it's great to be on the air with you as well.

Well, I think a great point to start our

discussion today is For you to define Dispensationalism, I think that would make

sense before we move on to cover ultra

dispensationalism Progressive dispensationalism and progressive covenantalism.

So what is dispensationalism?

I know I know that most Christians will have likely heard that term.

I would not be just be surprised to know or learn.

I don't know this as a statistical fact.

But I would not be surprised to learn that most Evangelicals are dispensationalist.

Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong there, but tell us what what does that mean?

What is dispensationalism?

All right.

So I think that these

other move

dispensationalism is Simply a way and

it has strong implications as far as interpret as well.

Dispensationalists essentially see it into seven

Different areas and we don't really have time here today to go in.

Let me just define the dispensate first of all

from Charles Briery who is probably one of the most important Writers in the

Dispensational world he's defined it as a dispensation is the Distinguishable

economy in the outworking of God's purpose Using the word economy because that actually

is the English version of the transliteration of the Greek word

which From which we get the word economy or economy.

Which

is a

time during which man is Tested in respect of obedience to some specific

revelation of

more to that

or even Ryrie.

So let me put it in these terms.

This is kind of my putting it all together.

Dispensationalism deal what is he

doing?

And this would take a while to explain.

I'll just state it He is reclaiming his sovereign authority over his property

his household, which is the world under various stages of revelation

by an ordered progression stewardships or

economies those words are all of words that can be used to translate

dispensation throughout a Succession of time period through the succession of ages

or time period that's true with all the dispensational schemes.

By the way there what

you're looking at is The way

in which

I'm

beginning

by breaking it down in

our dispensations or periods or

ages.

Okay, and Just for the sake of clarifying something

since you mentioned Charles Ryrie

The issue of lordship salvation which was perhaps even

more more a heated topic of debate and even

church splits and All kinds of things that were going on especially in

the 1980s, and I think that what provoked the The public

controversy seemed to be John MacArthur's I think masterpiece the

gospel according to Jesus.

Charles Ryrie was on the opposite side of that debate and from what I know about you. I believe that you have always

Maintained along with with John MacArthur that repentance is indeed a necessary

evidence of salvation.

Well, yes, that's true, but

that's

really

not our

discussion.

The lordship salvation controversy did involve Ryrie and

But Wasn't a dispensational issue because there were other

professors other faculty members at Dallas Seminary Jane Hodges, for example

Salvation so the two issues.

Yes.

I just wanted to clarify that because there may be many people in my audience.

Because they know my position of being very a very strong advocate of lordship salvation.

They might be wondering what view you might hold and I just wanted to clarify that.

So now that you have laid out a summary Explanation of

dispensationalism and by the way, I should interject here One of the reasons we're even discussing this

issue today is that I am arranging another I think this is going to be my third in

the history of iron sharpens iron radio.

I'm arranging an 8 -day Eschatology marathon

on iron sharpens iron radio that is likely going to take place in August and

Ron glass will be featured representing Pre

-tribulational pre -millennial ism.

During that eschatology marathon each day.

I am going to have a different representative representing a different eschatological view and

I will keep you all update updated as to the exact dates because I'm not even fully

aware or Or I have not yet fully Booked

the exact dates of this marathon.

So I will keep you updated when I know exactly when it will air.

But having said that Let us move on now to some of these

Splinter groups as it were that have arisen and

the first one which Knowing people who claim to represent all of

these views.

The first one to me is by far the most problematic and I would even

Venture to call it heretical myself.

Which I would not do necessarily with progressive Dispensationalism or progressive

covenantal ism, but ultra dispensationalism Seems to me by far the most dangerous and if you

could define that and explain when it came to be to your knowledge and the

key points of departure from classic dispensationalism.

Sometimes called and

basically be

some

Dispensational speech began on that

it began with the Apostle

Paul most identify it as the end of the

book of Acts where

Roman imprisonment so that the

gospel is going to now be Going to the Gents 28

28 which is the end of the book of Acts they date the church from

from that time and not from the Pentecost the next to

ultra dispensationalism began.

With men named Ethelbert Bollinger

Bollinger and I he was an Anglican clergyman a low low Anglican Low

church Anglican clergyman who lived most of his life in the 19th century.

He's very scholarly man.

He produced some some highly technical Resources

concordance and some other things That are still used today, but

his view on dispensationalism gave rise to what's

called ultra dispensationalism.

According to Bollinger's Dispensationalism the Gospels and the book of Acts are Under

the law so the Gospels and the book of Acts have nothing to do with the church

Gentile church as we know it today.

So the church age begins after the close of the book of Acts.

The fullness of the revelation of the what he called the mystery church age is revealed in the

prison epistles Ephesians and Philippians and Colossians.

Now his influence today is reflected probably in the best known

of those Places where it's known is something called the Grace Gospel

Fellowship.

Grace Gospel Fellowship is not a large group, but it's a

group of Ultra dispensationalists that they have several ministries.

They have something called the Grace Evangelical Society which is based in Denton, Texas the

Grace Christian University in Grand Rapids, Michigan and a Berean Bible

Society, which is now based in Germantown, Wisconsin.

So how do ultra

dispensationalists differ from the dispensationalists in terms of their understanding

of the ages or the Dispensations how history breaks down.

Well, they break it down and can't go

into the details here.

But they they begin with the Edenic state of innocence, which is not all that different from from

traditional dispensational.

And then the second one and that's in Genesis 1 to 3 the creation and

Man in innocence before the fall in other words.

Then the second one they uniquely Name the period with

which would embrace what we who are traditional dispensationalists would call

the

Dispensationalist conscience.

They look at this one from

Genesis 1 which is Israel at the foot of

Mount Sinai.

When God appears to Israel.

The third one is the period under the law which they say extends from Exodus 19

through Acts 28.

And so they believe the Gospels the four Gospels in the book of Acts all exist

under law and That concludes at the end of that then they have the period

of grace.

Which is the period that

period then you have the epic of judgment

which in which what they do is they Assign a separate

dispensation to what we call the tribulation period and this ends with the destruction of

Antichrist.

Their sixth age is the Millennial Age in as in Revelation 20

and that ends with the destruction of Satan and then their final dispensation is

the eternal state of glory, which traditional dispensationalism does

not Usually identify eternity as a dispensation.

So this is the eternal state of glory which they say correctly will not end.

So those are the seven.

Now, is it not true that one of the most? aberrant aspects of this group

is That they only believe the epistles of Paul are bonding upon the church today.

Yeah, and the thing about it is that some of them

Some of them actually see two churches some of them see what they call a Jewish Church.

Which would be in the period

all so

what they would say to is that what we generally call

the

general epistle

authority or Ultra

-dispensationalist so in

other words the other.

Books of the New Testament.

And of course all of the Hebrew scriptures the Old Testament Would have been applicable

and true and inerrant during their alleged

Dispensations to the audiences to which they were written.

So they're not trying to claim that they are not inerrant or fake or

What have you.

They're not viewing them like the apocryphal books or anything?

They're just saying that in the the Current dispensation.

All of those other books of the scriptures are non -applicable to the church.

They

all but when

it began exactly.

They have different

they just don't agree except to say it did not begin a Pentecost.

So they believe that the Great Commission as given by the Lord Jesus and Matthew and Mark is

Jewish and Therefore the Great Commission is not for the church.

The church does not acknowledge the Great Commission as binding.

Water baptism is not for the church.

Age.

Now there's a disagreement among these different divisions of ultra -dispensationalism.

Table is For the church today.

Some say it is like the Grace Gospel Fellowship, for example.

They do observe the Lord's Table and

some of them don't.

They say that the church is now and this

really isn't.

But they have gotten into some weird kinds of things.

Ethelbert himself what he

people he

believed

that he resurrected it

is not.

He belonged to an organization.

Was flat.

So he

had

some

stress

now.

Having been familiar with a few Churches in this category.

Especially when I was an employee of WMCA radio

in New Jersey at the time now located in New York City a Salem media

affiliate Salem media being the largest Christian radio network in the world.

When I was working there I became familiar with this Group of ultra -dispensationalists,

of course, they don't call themselves that but One of them a pastor

in New Jersey Had a program on WMCA.

I don't know if he still does.

But he was also teaching what we had

mentioned at the outset of this program in our discussion on Charles Ryrie and the

Controversy and the debate over Lordship salvation.

Whether repentance is necessary for salvation.

This this pastor and it seems that the group itself strongly

rejects The notion that repentance is necessary for salvation.

And in fact, if you were to say that and teach that you would be considered a heretic.

Because they view that as adding works to faith for salvation, which is obviously not

What that means it is an it is a required evidence of

genuine saving faith not a cause or an

agent of actually becoming regenerate and born again, so on.

But Is that your understanding as well?

Once again

Ultra

just but

Lordship

salvation and.

Do you have anything?

Oh, I want.

I was going to ask you how Prevalent is this group?

Is it dying out?

Is it on the rise to your knowledge?

Yeah, I I.

Don't really know.

I think

it's a fairly

and

the.

Encounters that I have had with people who espouse that view.

And now of course, I can't broad brush the group because I as you I don't know

a lot of people involved in it, but When remembering having

any kind of communication with those folks.

They do not view their distinctives as a minor issue

As as we don't.

And they were very combative and militant from what I recall in my

interactions might my very rare, but but real interactions with them.

That we had some our softball teams.

In fact, you're reminding me about that church and that pastor and my communications with him

were cordial as well.

Yeah before we move on to the other sex or splinter groups.

Who separated themselves from classic dispensationalism?

We have our first commercial break that we have to enter into and I

hope that you all will.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in.

My guest today is an old friend of mine a longtime friend and The

man who is largely responsible as being

Used as a tool in God's hand to bring iron sharpens iron radio back on the

air.

In 2015 when we relaunched after relocating to Pennsylvania Ron Glass

former adjunct professor of Bible exposition Talbot School of Theology and

Before his retirement was the pastor of Waiting River Baptist Church in Waiting River, Long Island, New York.

From 1993 to 2018 we are discussing a classic Calvinist

dispensational ist examines ultra dispensational ism

progressive dispensational ism and progressive covenantal ism.

And if you have a question, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We already addressed Ultra dispensational ism and its distinctives.

Now, let's move on to progressive dispensational ism.

I don't know the level of disagreement you have with these folks, but I personally am

aware of Brothers in Christ that I know and love who I've even interviewed on

this program not on that issue but on other issues and So tell us

your own Opinion and of course a definition of progressive dispensational ism.

Well progressive dispensational ism is a revised or modified form of

dispensational ism.

It first appeared

in 1986.

The name was coined in 1990.

The three leading dispensationalists,

the

two of

them,

were

involved

in

this

Primary

one,

biblical interpretation.

He wrote a

book in 1987.

One of the

Subtitles, I believe that a consensus between Classic dispensationalism

and covenantalism.

Let me describe it this way.

Let me let me

election cycles.

We hear candidates talk about the importance of reaching across the aisle of

trying to work together trying to forge some kind of compromise or

Rapprochement.

What we find out is it's

always the Republicans who have to give.

The Democrats never compromise.

So what rapprochement Involves is the Republicans

compromising their views and coming over to some of the views of the Democrats.

Well, that's the same thing you've got going on here.

The Dispensationalists are the ones who have to compromise and the covenant

theologians don't.

One of the reasons for that is that faith

and they don't budge

so that's kind of kind of blows apart the idea that

a consensus between the two the

idea of unifying these different positions is based on the

the understanding of the kingdom of God.

They say that that's the unifying theme of biblical history and that there's only one kingdom in

both the Old Testament and the New Testament now the New Testament

according to progressive dispensationalists actually introduces changes

and additions to Old Testament revelation.

I just striked at one of the most important principles.

This also applies in the Dispensational relationship with covenant theology

and that is that the New Testament interprets the Old Testament

a Dispensationalist most evangelicals would say no.

You have to allow both Estimates or each testament to speak for itself.

Now it's true that in the New Testament we find fulfillment of Old Testament.

Change or make additions to this is a and

I've called complementary.

Look at this is that traditional

Historical legal parlance today would be

called we called originalist interpretation that alongside that.

Is this complementary?

Terminus so it hasn't replaced Interpretation,

but it is placed alongside of it.

So for example, the church they say was not Unrevealed in the Old

Testament.

It was just unrealized.

So for example, they would say that the church is the new Israel.

They are introducing a change or an addition to the old to

the Old Testament.

Anybody who just reads the Old Testament in an unbiased way would say they're

from the Old Testament.

Thus the complete distinction between Israel and the church needs to be revised.

So say the progressive

they would say that the kingdom but not yet.

That is the new covenant and the Davidic reign

station present

you await its final

consummation in the millennium.

Progressive dispensation was still hold till millennium still what they're saying is that Christ is now

reigning in heaven.

From the throne of David and that's a similar view to covenant theology.

Christ is

for

the purpose

of God in history.

They say

is Christological Christological

meaning that they believe in of what they call a holistic.

In fact Ron, let's pick up on holistic redemption when we return from the midway break because we've got to go to that right now.

Just don't just don't forget holistic redemption and if anybody would like

to Join the conversation with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arns in a gmail .com.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence before I go to any listener questions

Ron you were right in the middle of a statement about progressive dispensationalism

and.

Holistic redemption.

If you could further explain what you were talking about

the purpose of God in history

is

different.

Then traditional did

working

all things out through

public

theology about a

holistic

that

includes what they call kingdom Righteousness

and so you're going to

see the facial

according to the progressive

this

then

Sinai to the ascension of Messiah so from

Moses and the

people and

then the

Millennium

and.

The second part would be article mosaic

ecclesial and bionic.

I Would just say from this just remember

progressive

Dispensationalism convictions

and covenant theology in turn

now.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry and

our progressive dispensationalists and forgive me if I If you said this and I didn't hear you.

Our progressive dispensationalists still retaining a pre -tribulational

pre -millennial view of eschatology.

That's really vague.

Charles Ryrie said this was the scene of quantum known of dispensationalism.

This whole question is do you believe that there is a future for literal Israel and

Do you believe that somehow it's been absorbed into the church.

The progressive Dispensationalists see a unity between the

Jews and the Gentiles that they say well, they've all been Saved in Christ

and so they've all been made one but they also knowledge the Abrahamic promises

and Was

originally promised to the people of Israel.

So Israel isn't Transformed into another entity Israel doesn't become the

church.

Even if however nations are added to the people of God which they were

Know that the gospel went through

but the progressive dispensationalists believe it's just one people of God and

So

there's a

diversity

future kingdom a restoration for national Israel.

Yes, they do and They believe

it will

occur

in the

future.

That's a

little

confusing.

Frankly, and.

Now we move on to the view of progressive.

This progressive covenantalism.

Yeah, now

this is a let me read you a

definition from Even well,

um, this seems to

be this thinking and most of this is emerged out of Southern seminary

he says and I quote progressive covenantalism argues that the Bible

presents a plurality of covenants

aggressively reveal our triune God's one redemptive

plan for his one people Which reached their fulfillment?

Uses the Greek word here tell us and Terminus in other words the end in

Christ and the new covenant.

What this is saying is that each redemptive epic or dispensation They don't like to use that word, but

each redemptive epic is marked off by a biblical covenant.

And each covenant contributes to a unified plan Which is known?

Through the progression of these Covenants one covenants followed by another covenant by another

covenant and as the covenants progress God's unified plan becomes apparent

they show how God's promises are all fulfilled in Christ and How we are to live

as God's new covenant people.

So they say that the covenants again to quote are the backbone of scriptures entire

Storyline, so everything is built on the idea of the covenants

now this way of thinking progressive covenantalism first appeared in a

2012 book called kingdom through covenant again.

It was by Stephen Whelan and his

Southern

Seminary Peter Gentry.

Stephen Whelan Peter Gentry that writes this book kingdom through covenant published

like aggressive covenant

by the New Testament in the name of progressive revelation

I'll culminate in now

looks to me.

We're a series of changes that were

coming primarily from the from traditional Dispensationalists who were

unhappy with some of such a new way.

It looks to me like this is essentially coming from the other

direction from the More covenant the out.

They say God's revelation.

This is all culminate in Christ.

Whatever that means and I'm not only sure what they're saying.

They confused the universal kingdom of God with the mediatorial kingdom of God now, that's a that's a

longer discussion.

But what they are saying is that Christ is reigning

Special matter and again the details of this would be too much to go into here, but

The fact is that Christ is not raining not

Exercising is royal messianic authority over the earth.

We have biblical Prophecy that makes it very clear that when Christ reigns he reigns with a scepter of

iron.

He reigns in absolute righteousness and there's no way that the earth can be described in those terms

at the present time.

So we would with their view that Christ is reigning

now now progressive covenantalism classifies biblical history into six

ethics.

Again, they don't like the word dispensation.

First one is Creation in Genesis 1 and 2.

The second one They call Noahic and that embraces beginning in Genesis 9 with the covenant

God made with Noah.

Then the Abrahamic now notice these are covenants that God made Abrahamic

in the book of Genesis chapters 12 15 17 18 22 you have the promises to

Abraham.

Then you have the Mosaic Epic which is the Old Covenant the law

which they believe is fulfilled in Christ.

Then you have the Davidic Epic which is the epitome of the Old

Testament covenants 2nd Samuel 7 where God made a covenant with David and then

the final one is the new Covenant which

Jeremiah 33

referenced

in kingdom of God.

Let me just

focus on has one to

the church Still have to be distinguished.

They don't the church is not the new Israel

and does not replace the nation of Israel.

The church is God's new covenant people which differs in nature and in structure from

Israel.

But they see Christ as the antitype of Israel and of Adam.

See they think you Adam and Israel as types all of God's promises to his people are

fulfilled in Christ and they say that includes the land

promise to Abraham and his see fulfillment that God

accomplished in Christ of his promises to Abraham include the land.

Now, I Can't see that Baptism does not correspond to

circumcision as for example in covenant theology.

And they say that the reason for that is they are Under different covenants,

but they say about Christ Christ is currently reigning over his

creation Kingdom.

The realities of life in the future age to come have already come into the present age.

But they are not yet in full.

So the future kingdom of Christ is here now in kind Continuity

and the present kingdom of Christ is going to increase on the completion that Discontinuity

when he returns.

This is similar to the inaugurated Eschatology that you find in covenant theology and it's just

this view which is so prevalent today becoming more and more Apparent and

evangelicalism of the already not yet way of thinking about the kingdom

of God.

All right, send it they bought into that.

So I say in Christ the church Which is God's new covenant people receives all

of God's promises.

Now when I read that I would like to ask

promises.

What about all of God's curses?

They receive those two elect

people of God.

So just as a couple of examples of what

I

and

then when they go to the book around you.

They're symbolically referred to the entire church.

Once again, how do you get that?

How do you explain that from the text?

So what's wrong with covenant progressive progressive covenantalism?

One thing is it assumes that every age Epic or if you want to use dispensation

is defined by a biblical covenant.

But that's not the case.

There are some ages that have no covenant the innocence God

did not make a covenant as such with with Adam.

There is no defined covenant.

And at the beginning in the age of grace in which we're living now the church age there's no covenant.

God has not made a covenant with the church and some of the

One in particular the dispensation or the ethic of the law has more than one

covenant now, so there's no such creation.

Covenant covenants have to be identified as such.

If you you move away from that standard you can get yourself in trouble.

Unifying factor in Scripture then for them is not God's glory.

It's not God's illogical, but it's his redemptive plan.

Which is defined by this progression.

They find title is not called

a type in Scripture.

But you see

one of the

things you've got

to realize this is Paul makes a very clear statement in Romans chapter 9 verse

4 that the covenants belong to Israel.

It doesn't make covenant with covenant with the church.

But the covenants belong to Israel that they have.

They board

that the same rules role brings Israel's

exile to its end in a new exodus.

And every I'm quoting now every aspect of Jesus life and ministry and cross work.

He fulfills all of the promises instruction and typological patterns of the previous

covenants.

Now this is all kind of that's what they say

look at it.

They have some covenantalism tends to destroy the original intent of the writers

of biblical prophecy.

We have to insist that the biblical text means what it says and that this is

particularly true with regard to Israel and The church.

The new covenant is yet to be made with Israel and Judah.

So says scripture to the Bible than just

redemptive history.

It's not just it's God's.

I

just observed that they haven't accomplished.

Much more than making biblical history and prophecy so complicated that most Chris

reminded all in Athens.

Now all the Athenians and the strangers visiting there used to spend their time and nothing other

than telling or hearing Something new and it seems to me that there's a lot of that.

Kind of thinking going on in this I don't know what it's for the sake of doctor of dissertations

or publishing books or what?

But it gets very complicated and average people just don't get it and.

So I well,

we're going to be taking our final break before.

Reading any of our listener questions and.

If you want to get in line, please send in your question as quickly as possible so that we don't run

out of time before.

We have the opportunity to read your question.

The email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Ron Glass after these messages.

James White of Alpha and Omega ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

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So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th to the 17th in Washington DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

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You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnson's iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon

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This is James White of Alphanamega ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd 11 a

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And I would love to start hearing today from as many of you men out there in ministry leadership

Who would like to attend my free pastors luncheon on Thursday September 22nd?

Send your emails to Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put Pastors luncheon in the

subject line.

I hope to see many of you there and this luncheon began

as the brainchild of my precious late wife Julie in the 1990s and after her entering

glory for eternity with Christ in 2010 I picked up

the the pastors luncheons again and Have been doing it ever

since her home going to Christ.

I've been doing the the pastors luncheon in tribute to

and in loving memory of my late wife Julie and Hope that you can attend and

send in your emails to Chris Arnson at gmail .com the pastors luncheon in the subject line.

If you just tuned us in you've tuned in rather late.

My guest today has been for the entire program Ron Glass former adjunct professor of Bible exposition at

Talbot School of theology.

And before his retirement from pastoral ministry was the pastor of Waiting River Baptist Church in Waiting River,

Long Island, New York from 1993 to 2018 this church was the

very first sponsor of iron chirping Zion radio after relaunching the broadcast

in 2015.

After relocating to Pennsylvania, I am forever in the debt of pastor Ron and this church

For believing in me and what I am doing enough to get this program on the

air again, and I Thank you again pastor Ron.

In fact Ron and Waiting River Baptist Church sponsored this program even knowing that I do

have some Disagreements with Ron even on the subject we are addressing today.

I am a Amillennialist and I am in the Covenant

Reformed Baptist camp but I still Have great heroes of the faith who

are dispensationalist.

We have Some listeners who are waiting to have their questions asked.

We have one of the most faithful and loyal Listeners and supporters of iron chirping Zion

radio Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Greetings brothers.

In the small amount of reading I've done about the early church.

I don't remember any of them being dispensational.

When did dispensational enter into the church?

When a dispensationalism, I mean enter into

the

church

and let me just put it first generation

I'm in the second century and there was Pre

-millennial

Dispensationalism

form of it was obviously

not the pre

-millennial

and the pre -church fathers.

It's

a long story, but

essentially

By and large disappeared, but never completely.

What you find what's interesting is that you have some very

proto dispensational views especially emerging in the

post -reformation era in England and But primarily in England.

Sensational views really?

Oh, yeah, it doesn't look exactly like the Dispensationalism of

see.

They held the evidence of that great

hymn writer was also theologian and he wrote

remarkably similar to what eventually would

dispensationalism been around distinction between

Israel and the church.

The looking forward to the future coming of Christ in a millennial kingdom

and a tribulation period.

Those ideas.

Were in the church, right?

Basically right from the beginning.

Well, thanks Grady.

We have Robert in White Plains, New York.

Who Asks and see.

I just had Roberts question in front of me.

I'm looking for it right now.

Let me repeat our email address while I'm looking.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least city and state and country.

In fact,

I've seen that

book

advertised.

Okay, Robert in White Plains, New York asks.

I Heard Chris Arnzen introduce the guest today as a

believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace.

I am confused as to why there seem to be very few Dispensationalists who

share that view?

I know that John MacArthur and the faculty at the master's seminary would be an

exception but am I correct to say that Calvinism

Would be a very tiny minority view in.

Dispensationalist

circles

for recent years a lot of

the it's not again.

It's not organically connected dispensationalism, it's not organically connected to the the

Calvinistic Arminian debate.

There are a lot of there are a lot of dispensational out there a lot more than

most people would think it's not

Dispensational.

There are those who would think that you can be a dispensationalist, but that just isn't

true.

You can't probably know

historic.

Most of the Calvinists were not just

said you might be surprised at the ones who were moving in that direction.

Well, thank you, Robert.

We have a.

An anonymous listener who says I am getting into more debates.

Not in a formal and public sense, but in private conversation with my

close friends who are dispensationalist and I have heard that

some of the earliest of the dispensationalists believed that

the Jewish people would never be accompanying the

Gentiles in Eternity in heaven with Christ, but would merely

Inherit an earthly kingdom.

Is this true that early dispensationalists believe that and what is your opinion of that?

Well that

again,

I would refer to this Whitson's book dispensationalism before

Darby he could answer a lot of those things.

Look the thing about it is that in the present age The church is made up of Jews

and Gentiles and Paul makes it clear in Galatians 328 There's no difference that

we are on equal footing Jew and Gentile alike under the age of grace and we will

reign with

Christ with

their

nation all

and they

will in the

Who

are part of the body of Christ?

No, but you have heard that that was a part of the thinking of some at least early

dispensationalist.

Before Darby because he goes through that stuff in excruciating detail and you can just about find any

19th century that had anything to do with this.

I mean he names.

Yes, and I heard it just a little differently or maybe it's significantly different.

I heard that there were early dispensationalists that believed the old covenant believers

Would not in Hunter inherit heaven but an earthly kingdom.

Not that Jewish believers in the new covenant who specifically embrace Christ

would not Be in heaven, but that's just I don't agree with that at all.

But I believe that all believers will be in heaven.

Yeah, I'm talking

about eternity, you know.

Yeah, well, and I know there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

But I'm just saying there there seems to be a segregation going on in the minds of some of the early Dispensationalist

between old covenant believers and new covenant believers.

We have another listener we have Christian in

western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York and Christian says I have read in the tracks of

some of the more extreme Fundamentalist Baptists that during the tribulation

the gospel of Jesus Christ will not be active

and if anyone is Going to enter into eternal life with Christ after

death It must be by works and in fact In some cases I have heard

these folks believe according to their dispensational view That you must be martyred during

the Great Tribulation in order to inherit heaven.

Have you heard this and do you believe it?

That's that's a whole bunch of error and has nothing to do with Dispensationalism.

As such these people may claim to be just

and.

I'd like you to now for several minutes of uninterrupted time just summarize What you most want etched

in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

That God has given us a

revelation with regard in the and

he has a program that he is has

undertaken.

I've been

guilty of

and

I think

that's the

so.

Well, I want to thank you so much for spending time with us today Ron and

I hope that I have an opportunity to fellowship with you face to face sometime this side of heaven

in the near future.

And I also want to remind our listeners that there is in the proper

I am in the process right now of arranging an eschatology marathon that will

likely take place in August Where I am going to have different representatives of the

different major eschatological views each having a day Where they

defend that view and Ron Glass is God willing going to be one of them defending pre

-tribulational pre -mill pre -millennial eschatology.

And so keep listening for updates on exactly when that marathon will

occur.

I want to thank everybody for listening today.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than you

are a sinner.