Trinitarianism in the 21st Century

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Well as we begin I want to thank First pastor Tim for opening his doors to us tonight allowing us to be here and for spearheading this evening and also for John and his leadership and Met him just a few months ago over coffee and began to talk about our shared desires for to see reformation and And I'm thankful that he has asked me to speak on a subject, which is very close to my heart the doctrine of the Trinity is something that I have studied and written about and something that I believe the first the first line of the book that I wrote God in three persons is Says simply this it says that amazes me in This day and age how many people do not seem to understand? that the God that we worship is the Trinity and So tonight we're going to be looking at several things.
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Hopefully you have the handout As I was preparing and I do want to ask your your Pardon, I started coughing five minutes ago.
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And so if I cough a few times, I I apologize But As I was preparing for tonight's lecture and I was thinking about what I wanted to say Over the last few weeks a few things happened during those times a few weeks ago a youth minister from another church Came to my church Just to talk to me.
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He's a friend.
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We've known each other for years And when he came in to talk to me, he told me that he was thinking of leaving his wife because she Wasn't she's a difficult woman is the words that he said.
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He said I'm thinking of leaving my wife because she's a difficult woman And I told him Well, actually he said he said well, I'm not happy and I said well God hasn't called you to be happy God has called you to be holy.
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You need to repent.
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You need to go home and love your wife and He was thankful that I was honest with him that I didn't sugarcoat the issue and now he and his wife are in counseling with me It reminded me of another man who several years ago was in the ministry of another church and he left his wife he left her and went and Departed from their marriage from their children and he and I just happened to be passing each other in Walmart one day and I was not looking for Any type of confrontation, you know, but he walked and we just sort of face-to-face looked at each other and he started talking to me about ministry and I said to him pretty much the same thing.
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I said the other guy said brother I said You need to repent and go home and love your wife.
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I said you don't need to be talking to me about ministry you need to be talking about you need to be talking to me about repentance because that's what you need and He called me judgmental and walked away So it's interesting how you have two different responses to almost the exact same situation But I begin with these two stories not because my lecture tonight is on marriage.
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It is not Just in case I'm confusing anyone but because I want you to realize that ministry is a hugely practical endeavor and if you're in ministry or you're preparing to be in ministry or if maybe you're here tonight and you're part of this church or another church where you are ministering in some capacity, you need to realize that What you're going to face in ministry is real people in real life In real situations it is rarely sanitary and never simple And as such as we talk about the doctrine of the Trinity this evening I want you to realize that what I want to come at this from is from the pastor's perspective and from the ministry perspective Why is the doctrine of the Trinity something that we should even be concerned about? How should the shepherd Relay these truths to his people.
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How should the shepherd recognize and battle the wolves which come from within and from without? How should the shepherd correct the errors which his people have picked up from bad teaching or their own? Vain attempts at trying to formulate truth on their own without any leadership or guidance How many of us have heard our own people our own church? Members friends people that we go to church with come up and say yeah, I believe the Trinity God's like any man He's um, you know I'm a father.
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I'm a son.
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I'm a brother So sure God can be father and son and spirit and and that's all it is Right, that's so it's simple, right? But the problem is that illustration doesn't make sense Because the only reason I'm a father and a son and a brother is because I'm in relationship with three other people who are not me and So you see if you begin to think about the Trinity and you begin to try to over Simplify in a vain attempt to make something make sense which is really beyond our ability to fully and completely comprehend you will do violence to the doctrine and Demonstrate that you really don't understand it Pastors that are here and and those who are who are in ministry here.
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Do you know what your people believe? Do you? Do you know? That you have taught them the doctrine of the Trinity Members of churches here is your pastor teaching you do you know these things? Are you learning on your own? Years ago.
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I was invited to sit in At the ordination of A man who was going for the gospel ministry in a Southern Baptist Church.
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I was asked to sit in on his ordination Evaluation one hour before his ordination So if we can this ordinate this this evaluation was nothing more than a mere formality But me and several other men were asked to come to simply I guess lend our name to his certification or his ordination So we sat down and every man got to ask him a theological question And when it came my turn I Said sir.
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Now, this is a man who's a seminary graduate This is a man who is a student and teacher of the word supposedly and He invited me Personally, which later he would regret but he said it came my turn and I said I Want you to think of a scenario? imagine A woman in your church marries a man who is a former Jehovah's Witness He's been brought up as a Jehovah Witness his whole life as parents or Jehovah Witnesses and he has been taught his whole life that the Trinity is a doctrine of devils a heretical untruth And now he's coming to your church as having married a woman in your congregation With or without your approval doesn't matter He's there and he comes to you after a sermon and he says I don't believe the doctrine of the Trinity Prove it to me go That was how I asked the question Stunned silence from the man and the gentleman next to me who was on the panel with me Said that's too hard of a question That's too hard of a question For a man who's about to preach the Word of God to the people of God and that is going to be his life's Responsibility to preach the truth and he cannot even explain what we mean when we say God is a Trinity For shame.
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I watched the video last week and I bet several of you did as well In 1993, dr.
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Al Mohler was the new president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary And when he was being brought in as the new president of Southern Seminary, he was questioned ie grilled By the people of the seminary because they did not want him there In 1993 Southern Seminary was a bastion of liberalism and here comes this man Al Mohler Calvinist He didn't believe in Female preachers and that was the big issue of the of the of the questions everyone who asked the question asked the question What about this passage? What about Galatians? What about this and what about that? what about Priscilla and what about you know, it was all it was all these questions and Finally this woman stood up and she said Dr.
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Mohler, I know that I had been called to the pastoral ministry and I want to have your time I want to be the first appointment on your calendar so that I can sit down and tell you how I know the Holy Spirit Has called me and it has empowered me for ministry and I said now wait a second You are at the largest Southern Baptist seminary in the world and you're gonna call the Holy Spirit and it the biggest problem in the church today is not The people hold the wrong view of the Trinity the people the biggest problem Is that people don't think deeply enough to even have a view of the Trinity? It's not that they think wrongly about it is they don't even think about it When they talk they don't even talk in Those terms they don't even address God in that way.
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They don't it's not on their mind I'm not that neither.
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This is I don't want to yell I get Sorry, I'll pretend I'm preaching here in a moment The reason why modalistic and tritheistic Models and by the I'll explain those in a moment if you don't know what they are But the reason why modalistic and tritheistic Models are used to describe the Trinity is because they do not take any real thought to comprehend Both models are unbiblical, but both models are easy So that's why they're adopted When trinitarianism Says that to understand God's nature you must begin by making a distinction between being in person between substance and subsistence The average church member in the 21st century says that's too much.
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I Can't go there.
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I'm not willing to go there.
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And so someone comes along with a modalistic or tritheistic System, which doesn't require Those types of distinctions and They're happy to be satisfied with such I'm gonna ask a rhetorical question Should the average church member be able to articulate the doctrine of the Trinity now, I think I think You would all say yes, I mean, especially if you're here Now if I ask that it, you know If I go downtown and stand in a max pulpit and say hey should everybody be able to articulate the doctrine attorney Maybe not everyone would agree But if I asked you all you'd probably say yeah, everyone should be able to articulate the doctrine of the Trinity however, if we were asked for the reason why Why Should everyone in the church be able to articulate the doctrine of the Trinity? We probably give different answers Some might say well the reason why everyone should be able to articulate the doctrine of the Trinity is because people need to know the truth for the sake Of the truth the truth itself is worth knowing and for the sake of the truth That's that's enough other people might say well, we want to be able to confront errors, you know Just like the Jehovah Witness I talked about or maybe those two, you know Guys with the nice white shirts and ties with the short sleeves come to your door on Saturday And we need to articulate the truth to them, right? Maybe that's the reason why you think you should know the doctrine of the Trinity But I submit to you this and I propose to you a new idea Is that the reason why the Trinity is essential to teach our people is? because Deuteronomy 6 tells us that we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart soul mind and strength and I submit to You that to love God is to love the Trinity Not the doctrine of the Trinity But the Trinity has God when we say we love God.
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We are saying I love the Father.
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I love the Son I love the Holy Spirit for these three persons are the true and living God who deserve our love Apart from the knowledge of the Trinity our love for God will be at best uninformed and at worst missed guided So the purpose of this lecture is not just to convince you to believe as our ancestors have in a series of doctrinal Truths it's to give you a better understanding of who God is that you might love him better and present him better And more completely when you are sharing him with others To love God is to love the Trinity the being of God which is shared by three co-equal and Co-eternal persons the Father and the Son and the Spirit To love God apart from loving the Trinity is to love an idol For this is the only true and living God who has revealed himself to us in sacred scripture I imagine if I were to ask the average church member today if he believed in the doctrine of the Trinity, he would say that he does However If I were to push the issue and ask him if he can understand or even explain the doctrine of the Trinity He would most likely not be able to he would probably provide some of the one of the ancient heresies Which I've already mentioned modalism and tritheism and I know there are others But I want to I'm going to focus on those later and you'll see why I remember years ago Pastor said well, the Trinity is like three in one oil it's like what you put in your lawnmower and I thought that's not right, but That's if you're really wanting to simplify something to the point of being wrong Say something like that.
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It could be argued also That a person doesn't need to understand the doctrine of the Trinity to believe it And and and that is true is Partially You don't have to fully be able to comprehend something comprehend something and when you talk about Comprehending you're talking about being able to wrap your mind completely around something and no one in here Even when I'm finished we'll be able to totally wrap our minds around all that is God Because he is infinite and we're finite but I Was driving this week I was driving my car down the road and I got to thinking about that argument when somebody says well I don't have to understand something to believe it.
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That's true.
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But if you understand something wrong Then you're believing wrong For instance, I don't understand how helicopters work.
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I Don't understand how these little thin blades pick up, you know tons of material and lift it into the air On on on the on the power of just these little small blades I know it do because I see it do but I don't know how it did So we know that But What if I believe that the reason why helicopters work is because there's thousands of tiny butterflies that have grabbed a hold of the top of that helicopter and with the power of their little wings have Fluttered to the to the max and with that maximum fluttering power have lifted two tons of helicopter into the air Would I be wrong? Okay, would I be wrong? Yes and now what if I went and told everybody that and what if I got some people that believed in that and we become the butterfly helicopter sect of the helicopter believers Well, we'd be wrong even if we believe even if all we were saying was helicopters can fly Well, yeah, we all believe helicopters can fly but if you don't at least seek to understand how that is You're liable to be wrong when you try to explain it to someone else and that is a very silly Maybe illustration of what happens with the doctrine of the Trinity Somebody says I believe in the Trinity and then I began to describe the Trinity in such a way that does violence to the scripture It does violence to the one being of God it does violence to the three co-equal co-eternal and distinct persons of the Trinity That is an issue that we need to consider tonight as ministers theologians Christians members of churches, we ought to be passionate about the nature of God and Concerned that we accurately understand and articulate what we mean when we use the word Trinity That our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ might do so as well So tonight I'm going to provide you with a that was all introduction, by the way This is my my church loves it because my introductions are always half the time but Tonight we're going to look at four different areas of this doctrine I want to provide an overview of the historic doctrine of the Trinity I will look at some of the most relevant scriptures and I'm going to try to do this all in a short amount of time So we're obviously going to be moving relatively fast, but we're going to ask four questions.
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It's not on the handout I gave you I'm sorry, and I maybe I should have put it there But the four questions we're going to ask tonight is what is the Trinity? Why do we believe in the Trinity? How has history shaped our understanding of the Trinity and forth? And finally what issues are currently facing us as Trinitarians? so that's the four-point outline of the lesson and I've given you an out a handout and I'm going to grab one because I didn't bring my own But everyone should have a copy of the handout that looks like this on the back of it is the Athanasian Creed I wish we had time to go through the Athanasian Creed.
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We do not so I simply printed that for your benefit It is one of the most extensive and articulate Expressions of what we believe about the Trinity and if you're interested in how the the ancient writers have Put together what we mean when we say Trinity the Athanasian Creed is helpful So this is for you for later not necessarily right now, but as we've asked the question What is the Trinity if you pull out the handout? I've tried to make it as clear as I can Because to the first thing we need to keep in mind is to understand the Trinity depends Upon making proper distinctions If we are not willing to make distinctions and by the way, this is the issue that almost always comes up You ever heard somebody say in your church or maybe somebody somebody you're talking to and they say well if Jesus was God Why did he pray? I? Mean that's that's that's a question that people often bring up and if you can't make a distinction About the being of God the persons and the dual nature of Christ that he is both God and man if you can't make distinctions and Articulate those distinctions and you won't have an answer to that question When somebody when you're talking to the Jehovah Witnesses, I was at Hardee's one day.
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She had a whole thing set up I don't know who owned that Hardee's but he gave her a whole section for the Jehovah Witness table And I walked over to her and I was trying to show her how in Hebrews 1 it says of the Son It says this and then you go back to the psalm and it says that's of Yahweh and I said this is Yahweh and this Is the Son the Son is Yahweh and I was trying to explain this to her and she pulled out a passage of Scripture that Says that the head of every man is Christ and the head of Christ is God Okay there the Bible says that but what does that mean if you can't make a distinction and you're not able to make the distinctions Between being and person and then you're not maybe able to make the distinctions between the human and the divine natures That Christ has both Then you won't be able to answer that question when it's posed to you so Trinitarianism Depends on our ability to make and understand proper Distinctions the classic formula is simple There are three foundational pit principles.
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Don't call them three pillars because Islam has five and you'll get confused The three foundational principles of Trinitarianism is this God is one in essence God is three in person These three persons are co-equal co eternal and Distinct now in the box on the sheet that I gave you you'll notice at the top.
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It says God Beside it.
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It is the English Transliteration of the Hebrew word below it, which is the four-letter name of God The tetragrammaton is what that's called and the word is Yahweh Sometimes Yahweh sometimes you'll see it written as Jehovah, but Jehovah is a dramatic adulteration of the tetragrammaton So I don't tend to use it not that it's bad, but that is there is no yeah, just sound in Hebrew There's no judge just sound in Greek either So there is no Jesus there's no Jehovah it's yesu or Yahweh Depending on whether you're speaking Greek or Hebrew be, you know, Yeshua in Hebrew.
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So anyway God is what? one in essence That is a distinction from person Because we say he is one in essence and three in person This is where a lot of people get off the boat Because a lot of people don't want to make a distinction between being in person because they've never had to make a distinction between being in person because when I meet I met a lot of you tonight for the first time brother Tim and I've met a while back and I met his brother tonight.
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You're being at a person and you only get one for one All right, and when I met brother Tim one for one brother John is one for one.
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It's a one being in one person I've never met a being that was all that was more than one person So a lot of people thinks because they've never met a being that was more than one person that it can't be But you cannot Deny That what we are saying is that there's a distinction between being in person Do you believe that there's a distinction between being in person now? I'm going to quote.
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Dr James White here because he uses this illustration a lot and if you've heard him use it I don't want somebody come and say dr.
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White says that yes He does and I like to use this illustration as well Because being in person are not the same thing because I could pick up a rock and a rock has being But a rock doesn't have person A rock has being if you don't believe it.
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I'll throw it at you when it hits you you that being just hit you If I walk up and and look at the pulpit here, this has being I can touch it I can feel it, but it doesn't have person.
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So we make a distinction between being in person All right, God is one being and This is why we don't deny when the scripture says here Oh Israel the Lord your God is One Lord, this is why we don't deny Isaiah 43 10 that says before me There was no God formed and there will be no God after me That's what you got to show the Jehovah Witness Because he says Jesus is a created God that came after Yahweh or Jehovah he cannot be a Created God because Yahweh has said there will be none after me You see God is one being we don't deny that we are monotheists We are Trinitarian monotheists not Unitarians Muslims Jehovah Witnesses Orthodox Jews, they would be Unitarian monotheists.
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We are Trinitarian monotheists.
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We do not deny That God is one in essence or substance and people say what do you mean by essence that R.C.
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Sproul says this stuff He said whatever God is That's one And we only get one of those And we know what God is because Jesus speaking to the woman What'd he say God is spirit Woman, well John for God is spirit and those who worship him must worship him in spirit And so we know when we talk about the stuff.
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We're talking about God's Spirit is one God is one and yet at the same time God is three in Person person is different than being Again, it's hard to understand how that is But you have to understand something you are not on the same Level of being as God you never will be even in your glorified state.
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You'll never be a God the Mormons got that wrong They said you can be God one day You know why they believe that they believe that because they believe God was once a man And if you believe God was once a man that it's idea.
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You could be God one day God was never a man.
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God has always been God and he's always been one God and Yet there have always been three persons That are that one God and Person is different than being I Want to provide an illustration with a major caveat There are no illustrations proper to the Trinity So any illustration I give I am forced to at the beginning say it ain't good And you say well, why would you say it because I'm not really trying to explain the Trinity I'm trying to explain a being on another level than you So understand that I'm not trying to define the Trinity.
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I'm trying to divine being on another level if you saw Or rather, I mean that back up a Single cell organism Doesn't have the capacity to think right? Just not enough there but a single-celled organism Would look at me as a multi-celled organism.
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How many or how many cells are in my body billions? Yeah, I'm a big man more than you No, so so we got Me I'm a multi-celled organism a single-celled organism would look at me and say well, there's there's several beings But I'm one being so I look at God and I say I'm one being one person God is one being three persons He can't be that because I'm not that he can't be that because I've never seen anyone else like that Well, that's why he's God of course, he's gonna be different than you you know what the word holy means It means other it means different God is not like you He's not like us and so big because we try to capture him in these human Restrictions and say okay.
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We've always had a one-for-one one being one person God must be one being one person No Nothing nothing demands that except our Unwillingness to say that God can be more than us the father the son and the spirit are all God But the father is not the son the son is not the spirit and the spirit is not the father and That is where the distinction must be made.
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God is one in essence or substance God is three in person or subsistence and a contradiction occurs When you say something is and is not in the same time and in the same relationship so we do not say that God is one God and three gods or one essence and three essence or one person and three-persons because in doing so we would be exercising a contradiction and God is not contradictory The distinction between essence and person must be maintained to eliminate the possibility of contradiction now below the square You'll notice another line the distinction between the ontological and Economic Trinity must also be maintained to eliminate the possibility of confusion Ontological simply means that which pertains to being and in God's being he is one in essence and three in person Economic means that which pertains to their role and each person works a unique role in redemption The father elects the son redeems the spirit regenerates they all work a different role in your salvation Jesus said this he said all the father gives me will come to me that classic Calvinistic passage where he says, you know all that all that the father chooses He gives to the son if you are saved tonight.
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It is because the father gave you to the son as a gift You are his bride the father chose you to give to the son Confusion in this area can lead to misrepresenting the individual work of each person the Trinity the father didn't die on the cross You understand that right? You understand that the father is not the one who suffered for sin.
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He was not the one who became incarnate a distinction must be made there in the history Some have not something called patra passionism the idea that the father was the one who was dying on the cross.
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It's not true So we need to be able to make distinctions if we were to understand the doctrine of Trinity Okay All right.
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So that is what the Trinity is.
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Let's quickly review Misrepresentations of it.
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I don't have a handout for this.
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I'm sorry, but if you want to make notes, you're welcome to Misrepresentations come in and you could go back and you say well in a story and is on the Neapolitan arianism You go through all these big words, but let me just make it simple There are people who believe that God is more than one in essence we call that tritheism or Simplified tritheism the idea that God is three essences or three beings.
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You've seen the triad view of God Where there's three beings and they're all sort of sort of like in confluence conference with one another My wife and I were in a Mormon Church one time I'll tell you why later.
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It's kind of a weird situation, but we were actually in the Mormon Church and we did we were not Mormons but we were there and one of the ladies invited my wife back and was showing her to a few of the rooms and Trying to convince my wife that we were the same we were not But you walk into one of the rooms and there was a painting and you've probably seen this if you've ever had a Mormon give You literature oftentimes this painting is in their literature It's a picture of Joseph Smith down on his knees and he's standing in front of two people But if you look at the painting, it's two pictures of that 17th century Jesus that we all are familiar with looks like Jim Caviezel with a bad mullet, you know, we know that picture.
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All right, so you got two Jim Caviezel's Together facing Joseph Smith and if you ask well, what's this? Well, that's Jesus in the father But in Mormonism see Mormonism isn't even on the Mormonism doesn't count when it comes to this conversation Mormonism is the most polytheistic religion in the world Because they believe in an infinite regression of gods that gods have always been and have always gone back that there they believe in more gods than the Hindus They believe you can all be gods You have more in common Theologically with the average Muslim than you do with a Mormon and we'll talk about why later but there but honestly Mormons are so far off the rails on this.
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It's not just that God is Kim.
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There are many gods Trippy ISM says there's three beings.
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That's wrong the next one God is less than three in person.
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This is more common today.
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It's sometimes referred to as modalism.
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I mean heard modalism Okay, several of you That Modalism also referring as can be called Sibelian ism Sibelius his view is a little different than the modern expression of modalism But the modern expression of modalism is this that there is one person Who manifests himself in different ways? So God is one being and one person But he manifests as the father in the Old Covenant Old Testament.
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He manifests as the son During the time of the Gospels and he currently manifests as the Spirit now and You kind of think about that those old plays where the where the person would play two parts and he'd have two masks And he would put the one mask on and he changed his voice a little bit and he would say yes I'm this person and then he'd take that mask off and he put this mask on but it's the same guy All right Modalism is It's sometimes referred to as oneness Oneness theology because they'll say well Jesus is the father and Jesus is the Spirit and You'll see their theology worked out and how they worship too Because oftentimes when they're worshiping that will make it self-known especially at baptism Because they will baptize not in the Trinitarian name of the Father and of the Son of the Spirit But they will baptize in the name of Jesus only And that's why they're often called oneness Jesus only groups So you have God is more than one in essence.
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That's tritheism.
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God is less than three in person That's modalism.
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And then you have the three persons are not equal eternal or distinct and that's Arianism How many you ever heard of Arianism now, let me back up because you could talk about Arianism as White supremacy that's a different type of Arianism.
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So be careful that you don't confuse and I'm serious because if people are confused sometimes Arius was a fourth century leader in the church who believed that Jesus Christ while divine was not equal with the Father and It was Arius's views that caused the Council of the Council of Nicaea To come together in the Council of Nicaea was where and I don't know if you know this story my favorite story in history And I don't know if it's true, but I'd love to think that it's true.
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St.
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Nicholas punched Arius in the face st.
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Nicholas Yeah that one Santa Claus St.
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Nicholas lived in the fourth century.
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He was at the Council of Nicaea and St.
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Nicholas of Myra apparently while Arius was speaking walked up and smacked him in the head and he got sanctioned for it Which is awesome Here's a great story whether or not it's true I don't know but the anyway the whole issue of Arius Arius didn't believe that Jesus was of the same substance as the father And that was the big question of the Council of Nicaea and I'm getting a little ahead of myself because we haven't got the historical Part yet, but the question of Nicaea was homoousia homoousia or heteroousia Oousia is the Greek word for essence or substance homo means the same Hetero means different homoi adding the ota means similar of Similar substance.
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So the question was is Jesus Christ the same substance as the father is Jesus Christ similar in nature or substance to the father or is Jesus Christ of a different nature Athanasius whose creed you hold Made the argument along with the rest of the bishops of Nicaea that Jesus was homoousia same substance Arius didn't argue that he was a different substance But he argued that he was similar But not the same that small iota that small line Made the difference between orthodoxy and heresy So I got a little ahead of myself, but we'll we'll skip that when we get there then so the next question What is the Trinity? I think we've looked at that.
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What is the why do we believe the Trinity? Why do we believe the Trinity? Well, I want to say this as clear as I can we believe the Trinity because what the Bible teaches I Guess I could just leave it there.
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I don't want to say a few more things about that, but that's just it Christians believe the Trinity because it is the only way to understand all the biblical data that we have Regarding the nature of who God is it's the only way to understand all that the Bible says Tritheists have to deny some of what the Bible says Modalists have to deny some of what the Bible teaches Trinitarianism is the only way to make sense of all the data That we have the Bible teaches that God is one in essence I've already told mentioned that Deuteronomy 6 Isaiah 43 the Bible teaches that God is three in person If you want a few scripture verses for that and I don't want to spend all night I love to teach John 1 1 2 3 And the beginning was the Word and you all know and the Word was with God and the Word was God, right? And all things were made through him.
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Nothing was made that wasn't made by him.
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You know, we know John 1 very well But that most important section there Is when it says the Word was God Because it identifies who the Word is later in verse 14 the Word became flesh and Dwelt among us and we beheld his glory the glory of the only begotten of the Father, right? So who became flesh Jesus? There's no question about who the Word is So you go back to the first verse in our cane how log us in the beginning was the Word right, and then it says That the Word was God in Greek it actually says that in God was the Word but we changed the word order in English because of the predicate nominative, but it's saying That the Word was God and it says the Word was with God Now the only way to understand that Apart from the Trinity if you say we don't believe in the Trinity The only way to understand that is believe there's more than one God or to believe that Jesus is a lesser God and that's what Jehovah Witnesses believe Jehovah Witnesses are not as monotheistic as they Proclaim Jehovah Witness will say now we're absolute monotheist.
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There's only one God Jehovah Witnesses are henna theistic.
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We know what henna theism is You know what? Let's start out monotheism one God polytheism Many gods henna theism that there is one God who is over the other gods or one God per tribe Go back to the ancient Jewish Writings the Old Testament and you talked about Baal Right, and what was Baal? He was the God of that tribe.
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Who was Jehovah? He was the God of our tribe and who is greater.
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Well, Jehovah is greater than Baal No, Baal is greater than Jehovah, right? And so they go back and forth I'm not saying that ancient Israel was henna theistic, but those other religions were they didn't deny that Jehovah existed They just said our God is better Our God is greater Jehovah Witnesses believe in Jehovah one God, but they also believe Jesus is a God because if you pick up one of their New World Translations, I Have one on my shelf for reference if you pick up their New World Translation, it says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a God They don't deny that.
43:36
He was a God.
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He's just not the God So again, the only way to understand John 1 1 without being a Trinitarian is that you have to have more than one God Whether or not he's a lesser God Whether or not he's sub God or God like he is called God The Bible is so clear when you I hear people say the Bible never says Jesus is God right here And by the way, FF Bruce says the only thing they proved by adding the indefinite article is their own ignorance of Greek grammar because there does not need to be an indefinite article that little letter a is Unnecessary at John 1 1 and actually all it proves is they don't really know what they're talking about Colossians 2 9 in him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Who in Christ the fullness of deity dwells bodily? Colossians 1 15.
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He's the image of the invisible God the firstborn of all creation That is used by some to say that Christ is the firstborn in the sense that he was created That's not what the firstborn means They're firstborn means preeminent one the one who is the head of all creation because he created all things And all things were made by him, which is what it goes on to say for by him.
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All things were created If you look at a New World translation, you know what it says there For by him all other things were created They had the word other it's in brackets, but pick one up It says it by him all other things because they say Jesus has created and he created everything else But he was Michael the Archangel.
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He wasn't even Jesus then Again, Jehovah Witnesses Theology is far afield Revelation 22 13 Jesus says I am the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last the beginning in the end No mere creature could say such a thing and of course at the end of John's Gospel when Thomas was doubting who Jesus was He said I will have to see the scar and his side and the nail prints in his hand What did Jesus do come and see my side that it is I? Touch me and what did Thomas say? ha koreas mu kai hafeas mu my Lord and My God Talked to Jehovah Witness once and he said he was just saying like anybody else who sees something surprising.
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Oh my god.
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I Like to give away a second to kind of giggle that was his that was just an expletive I Said yeah, it made sense that standing before a divine being Thomas would throw out the name of God as it were an expletive I'm gonna go with no, but it doesn't work.
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Anyway Because he didn't say Oh God he said my Lord and My God the Holy Spirit is also spoken of as a distinct person John 16 verses 7 through 11 is something I encourage you to look at when you have time John 16 Jesus is speaking.
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He says nevertheless.
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I tell you the truth.
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It is your advantage I go away for if I do not go away the helper will not come to you That's where that word comforter percolators in the Greek.
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That's where that word comes in there But if I go I will send him to you and when he comes he will convict the world Concerning sin and righteousness and judgment concerning sin because they do not believe in me Concerning righteousness because I go to the father and you will see me no longer concerning judgment because the ruler of this world is judged Jesus just referenced all three members of the Trinity as being completely distinct I'm going away.
47:40
The Spirit's going to come and I'm gonna be with the father He just kicked modalism in the chest because Modalism is destroyed if this is true because if Jesus is just one person wearing the mask And he's going to take that mask off and put on the other mask and then he's going nowhere And he's going to no one and we all know the story of Ananias and Sapphira where Ananias was brought before Peter he lied and what a Peter say He said you have lied to the Holy Spirit.
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You have not lied to men but to God identifying the Holy Spirit as God The Bible supports the coexistence of these three persons in the verses we've already seen but also in Matthew 28 where Jesus tells us to go into all the world and Make disciples of all nations in what way? through baptism baptism is is is one of the ways a person the enters into that discipleship relationship with Christ and how is that person to be baptized in The name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Bb warfield has a great quote that is rather long and extensive So I'm not going to read the whole quote to you But I will say what the essence of his quote is this he's saying that by saying the name of God is the father And the Son and the Spirit he was saying that now Jehovah is to be known as the Father and the Son and the Spirit now I want to kind of hasten to the end Because of time and I would like to give you a few minutes to ask questions as I enjoy doing that Third third question.
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How has the history shaped our understanding of the Trinity? Well, I want to tell you this some people will say And it became very popular just about 15 10 15 years ago when Dan Brown wrote the Da Vinci Code some people will say some of you might not even remember that but They'll say well nobody believed Jesus was divine Until the fourth century and the Council of Nicaea met to make Jesus God Because Constantine wanted to have a diva a divine being that he could control and people could worship history Proves that that is not true Clement of Alexandria Who lived between 150 and 215 said this both as God and as man the Lord? Renders us every kind of help and service as God.
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He forgives sin and as man He educates us to avoid sin completely our Educator old children resembles his father God whose son he is he is without sin without blame without passion of soul God immaculate in form of man accomplishing his father's will this was 200 years prior well 150 years prior to Nicaea and Clement is telling us There's no question Jesus is God Hippolytus who lived between 170 and 236 said this The Blessed John in the testimony of his gospel gives us an account of this economy and acknowledges this word as God when he says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God if then the word was With God and was also God what follows would one say that he speaks of two gods? I shall indeed not speak of two gods But of one of two persons however and of a third economy the grace of the Holy Ghost now beloved that's a hundred years before Nicaea and He just gave the Nicene understanding of one nature three persons, so if some knucklehead comes to you And he says well nobody believed Jesus was divine before 325 Say that's wrong.
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That's not true.
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That's false.
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Don't call him a knucklehead Save that for here the Nicene Creed though did make one important Statement regarding the Trinity that I think we should all understand how many of you have memorized the Nicene Creed.
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I brought my hand No, okay, that's fine.
52:29
Nicene Creed is not short You know, I mean, it's not terribly long, but it's something that a lot of people don't do churches I noticed when I got here tonight brother, and I think I see the Apostles Creed is here Do you guys recite that in worship? Well, praise the Lord.
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I love that and I like to see responsive readings in churches.
52:46
That's wonderful With an I seen Creed made an important distinction.
52:50
That is is something that I think historically has been helpful it said that Jesus Christ was begotten, but not made and If time would allow it I'd really like to get into what they were trying to say but for simplicity's sake God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are in a relationship with one another and the Historic doctrine of the Trinity has always said that the father Begets the son and that the spirit proceeds From and the question of whether or not he's proceeds from the father or from the father and the son is a question that was Actually divided the Eastern Western Church is 1056 Because they the Eastern Church believed that he only proceeded from the father alone The Western Church is a proceeded from the father and the son but whether or not that's an issue is not really the issue The question of is an economy and the question is of begetting and proceeding So we do understand that the son is begat by the father, but he is it is an eternally begotten relationship It speaks of relationship not one necessarily coming from the other in the sense of giving birth where there was not one there And now there is because of a birth, but it's just in effect it's a stating of a relationship in the same way that the spirit proceeds from both the father and The son the son is begotten, but not created.
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He eternally is from the father as Mysteriously as the father himself is from eternity Thank you, but but that's it the mistake the mystery of that begotten nature is as mysterious as God's eternal nature But we don't deny it Fourth and finally what issues currently face us as Trinitarians Number one what issues are facing us as Trinitarians the first thing ignorance most people do not know enough about the doctrine to articulate it at all and That's a problem I Mentioned earlier my introduction was lengthy because I was going over how people misunderstand the Trinity don't talk about the Trinity and Here's the issue guys and and I'm thankful for little Germany and what you guys are trying to do But we also realize that we cannot solve all the issues in every church in Jacksonville or around the world but we are going to try to ensure that the churches that we represent and are a part of our Are growing in these areas and And I am I am convinced That as a pastor my goal for this year every year when I sit down at the beginning of the year I map out my preaching calendar and I think about what I'm going to preach.
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I'm in acts.
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I've been in acts for two years I'll continue this year.
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But as I'm preaching I Think about the direction I want to go and it just so happens that this Sunday.
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I'm preaching on the The story of when Paul comes into Ephesus and he meets the the twelve or so disciples that are there that didn't know about the Holy Spirit and They they didn't really know about Jesus.
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They only knew about what John had taught and Paul comes in and shares Christ with them and he baptizes them and The title of my sermon sermon is deficient theology We live in a world of deficient theology And it would be bad enough if the deficient theology was at the bus station or if the deficiency Theology was at the Walmart or at the Lowe's But the deficient theology is in the churches and in the pulpits the ignorance is here When I asked that guy who was being Grilled to be a pastor if he knew the doctrine Trinity.
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Could he explain it? The guys were upset from with me for asking Not with him for not being able to answer Ignorance is an epidemic that we are dealing with So what do we do? We shine a light in the darkness, right? We understand the truth So we can share it with others.
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That's part of what the only thing we can do number two Intentionally anti-trinitarian teachers.
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There are those out there who are convinced trifeasts who are convinced modalists Convinced Aryans who are out there with large followings and I got to tell you guys some of them I'm sure you know, you probably know TD Jake's TD Jake's is a Modalist Even though he's tried to weasel out of it and he's tried to work his way back and forth I mean, he's got enough heresy everywhere else.
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He didn't have to add to it But I mean, but his heresy regarding the modalism stuff It just kind of just just puts the little you know, just nail in the heretical coffin as it were But he's not alone Phillips Craig and Dean to like anybody knows who they are anymore But if it Phillips Craig and Dean the music music guys Christian music guys It's funny.
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They were called the Holy Trinity of contemporary Christian music in the 90s.
57:47
Well They didn't believe the Trinity and modalists Oneness Pentecostalism and I gotta tell you if any of you have friends I'm sure that you all have friends as do I who go to different churches? Some of you have friends you must have friends that go to one as churches.
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They probably don't even know it It's hidden.
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It's not proclaimed and it's part of the teaching but it's comes under the radar But it's there Those who shepherd churches must warn those in our Hearing about those people and be sure to point them out I was once at one person left our church one time.
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She says all you do is talk about other people And I said, well, that's not fair I said, but I am going to warn our people about the wolves.
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I Wouldn't be much of a shepherd if I opened the gate and went home went to sleep You know, you have to point them out and say, you know people bring the shack to church Get out of here with that nonsense.
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We just check You know what that is They've got to make a movie about it.
59:08
It's an anti-trinitarian Nonsense work of fiction and people say oh this helped me understand God better.
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No, it didn't know it did not third And this one some of you will care a lot.
59:25
Some of you will not care at all, but try to care a little bit there's a question going on about subordination ism and the subordination debate and The only reason why I bring this out tonight because I know my time is running out I bring this out because This is an issue among reform guys And we all at least are here at Little Germany.
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You understand.
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This is a reformation society So if I drop names like Calvin and Luther and Zwingli and Huss and all those guys, you're not going to throw me out or stone me but in reformation minded groups there are Questions about the issue of subordination ism What is subordination ism that the father has always exercised authority over the son and The son has always been in submission to the father in their relationship within the Trinity that there has always been a Submission father to son and where this gained legs is because it was espoused by Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware And if you're familiar with those guys Wayne Grudem wrote one of the most influential systematic theologies, even though it's charismatic In its view of the the gifts, but he wrote one of the most influential Reformed systematic theology.
01:00:56
So people say oh wow Wayne Grudem believes in eternal subordination ism.
01:00:59
Maybe we should to Bruce Ware Southern Seminary.
01:01:04
He's huge.
01:01:05
Bruce Ware is a smart man and He wrote on the subject they both did a debate with another two guys on the subject and they were arguing for the eternal submission of the son to the father and one of the reasons why they make this is because they were trying to make an argument for the submission of the wife to her husband That there's equality but submission Right and so in arguing for the equality and submission role of the wife to the husband they were saying well in the Godhead there's equality but submission from the father to the son and I understand trying to find an illustration.
01:01:39
I understand trying to make a point, but I While I respect both of the men and I do understand in part the position they take Personally I do not agree with it.
01:01:56
However, I do want to say this In the incarnation There is submission The son to the father he said it I came not to do my will but the will of him who sent me right? I mean Jesus made a willing submission Philippians 2 and the carbon Christi when it says, you know, he emptied himself It doesn't mean he gave up divinity But there was a humbling of himself and coming in the form of a man So that he could die as men in the place of men and become their Savior, right? So there is a submission the question of why did Jesus pray? Because he was a man He is fully man and fully God.
01:02:36
So so there's really not an issue there But the question of whether or not Christ is subordinate to the father John Calvin says this in the Institute's He's talking about John's gospel He said John declaring that Jesus is the true God has no idea of placing him beneath the father in an a subordinate rank of divinity He's referring to John 1 1 he says he says John Calvin's talking about John 1 1 he says here He calls Jesus God and he's not calling him a second type of God or some kind of subordinate God He's referring to him as God and there is no rank In the Godhead The Athanasian Creed which I handed you says in this Trinity none is a four or After the other none is greater or less than the other But the whole three persons are co-eternal together and co-equal So the ancient teaching of the church is this that the Father the Son and the Spirit are co-equal Co-eternal and distinct and here's my thought not that it matters for much, but I'll share it with you because Well, you're you're all trapped.
01:04:00
So I'll share it with you when you think of God as a perfect being an infinite being the Concept of submission and subordination is Unnecessary as a quality when you have a perfect unity of will so for me It becomes a non-issue if they are co-equal and They are both perfect then subordination Is not a question for some it is But for me it is not so as I draw close draw to a close I want to reiterate something I said at the beginning My very reason for wanting to teach this lecture tonight is to say again to you to love God is to love the Trinity not the doctrine, but the being of God and I would ask you tonight.
01:05:02
Do you love him? Do you love God who is one in essence and three in person? Do you love the Father? Who chose you Do you love the Son? Who died to redeem you and do you love the Spirit who lives within you And that is the question we all Should be confirmed in above all else Father in heaven, I thank you for the opportunity to teach.
01:05:36
I Lord come to you and humb humility Saying I thank you for this opportunity Lord I thank you for Your word, which I believe is clear on this issue and we cannot get around it And I pray that now as we move into a time of questions a time of prayer and a time of fellowship and food That you would bless our continuation.
01:05:59
I pray Lord if there is anything that I've said tonight that has been an error That you would wipe it from the mind to these people that you would make it clear to us And Lord that I would repent of that error And I pray Lord those things which have been true helpful and fitting I Pray that you would write them on our minds Lord by the work of your spirit in Jesus name Amen All right, John, did you want to let them ask questions or we have no Yes, sir I Personally do not believe in somebody somebody may want to argue this I personally do not believe that you can prove the doctrine of the Trinity from the Old Testament I believe in progressive revelation, which means that as the Bible unfolds we learn more about God I say something in my church that sometimes offends people.
01:07:26
I say I believe we know more about God than Abraham did Because Abraham didn't know what we know about Christ about the gospel He knew the gospel because the gospel was preached to him Galatians tells us that and he was closer to God than we because he was called the friend of God, but I think knowledge Has been expanded and our progressive revelation that came to us through the word and when I say progressive revelation I don't mean now I do believe that revelation ended with revelation the book as far as divine inspired revelation, but I do believe that When you go back to the beginning in the writings of Moses and throughout the Old Testament and into the New Testament There is an expansion of understanding of who God is and what he's done And I think the Trinitarian understanding of God is something that is limited to the New Testament However, there are hints of Trinitarianism in the Old Testament even in the term Which is used and I can't remember exactly the Hebrew word right now But the word when it says in Deuteronomy, our Lord is one Lord That word one in Hebrew is a oneness of unity not an absolute singularity or oneness It's often pointed out and like one has been a costal ISM things like that.
01:08:32
So Going back to the question of Genesis 1 Genesis 1 deals with I believe God in his majesty And there's something called the majestic plural, which is anytime a king talks about himself He rarely talks about himself as I but he talks about we because he's speaking of himself and his and his authority as well And so if you talk to someone who doesn't believe in the Trinity and you try to point to Genesis 1 They will often say well, that's just a majestic plural That's God speaking of himself as more and greater than single a simple one being and that can be But I think there's also the hint of Trinitarianism all throughout the Old Testament, but I just don't think it's explicit enough to prove it So Yeah, we can look back at it now.
01:09:22
Yeah, I would say we look at back at it now and we see those hints We see things like the angel of the Lord who exercises the authority of Yahweh and What do we say about that? Is that a theophany or is that a Christophany? Who did Isaiah see in Isaiah 6? He saw Jesus in there when John tells us that in his gospel He said it was spoke of Jesus when he when he said he beheld his glory, right? And then when John saw the Lord, what is the first chapter of John say? No one has seen the Father a Bunch of people in the Old Testament saw God they had to have seen the Son So we know the Son was there and we can look back and see that Adam and Eve walked with Christ Because it says no one has seen the Father.
01:10:09
That's the universal negative Okay anything else I Love these questions.
01:10:17
Yes mm-hmm yes, I would say there's a distinction between and and again what I say earlier that we always have to make distinctions and the Distinction is between the the the human nature and the divine nature of Christ Jesus said I don't know when the return when I'm going to return He was speaking in relation to his humanity I think when he was on his knees and he was sweating drops of blood and he was saying father You know if there be another way Let this cut pass for me.
01:11:09
I think he's speaking from his humanity at that point and I don't think there's a division in the Godhead I don't believe there's ever been a division in the Godhead I'm going to say something else that may get me kicked out.
01:11:20
I don't know Let's say a lot of people say when Jesus was on the cross There was a division in the Godhead because they could the father turned his face Bible doesn't say that Jesus said ello.
01:11:32
I oh I lay my sabbath tonight my god my god.
01:11:34
Why have you forsaken me? He was quoting Psalm 22 and if you read all of Psalm 22 You'll see that at the tour It is a quote and I believe that Jesus was doing the same thing there that some of you might do if you say for God so loved the world If you say for God so loved the world, what am I supposed to think John 3 16, right? Well, if somebody says my god my god, why have you forsaken me? You're just quoting the first verse of a psalm That's a full song and the psalm is a psalm of victory When Christ said ello I oh I lay my sabbath tonight He's crying out not that the father's turned his face away But the father is pouring out the wrath that he has promised to take in that moment There's no division in the Trinity even on the cross But in his humanity He can say I don't know and his humanity and get hungry and it's humanity.
01:12:21
He can sweat and he can say Not my will but I will be done So he was fully God And I've heard people say well Jesus couldn't be fully man because he didn't sin and to be a man is to sin and that's not true because Adam was a man before he said Why Jesus called the second Adam? Because he was as Adam was before he sinned There's something called past Pekar and past non Pekar.
01:13:08
You've often heard that term The ability to sin or the ability not to sin right before Adam fell He had the ability to center the ability not to sin, but after he fell he lost the ability not to sin Jesus came into the world and the big question for theologians students Theology students is whether or not Jesus had the capacity to say not that he did or didn't but the whole issue of what we call Peck ability did Jesus have the capacity to sin and I'm not going there We're gonna have that debate But you understand that is a question that people ask because Adam we know had the capacity to sin or not to sin Clarity yeah Yeah, there's no need to try to You know feel the depraved curiosity of men because And so I think we're we sometimes become Ensnared by trying to answer the brave men for the falling nature and not trusting the Holy Spirit Just take what God has given us I Agree we can't get lost Trying to make people understand something that comes by the work of the Spirit in their heart you know, it's just like if I thought it were it was my words my works and my Articulate nature that would get people saved.
01:15:07
I would be nuts.
01:15:12
I Was the one that was doing the work of saving people and Every time I talked to somebody and they rejected Christ, I'd feel like it was a failure on me But it's God who opens their eyes to believe and it's God who opens up people's understanding And this is something for you reform guys you theologians you guys who talk to people you talk to our minions and they will get on your nerves Because you'll be showing them Romans 9 and you'll be showing them You know John 6 and you'll be showing them John 8 and you'll be showing them John 10 and they'll be talking about one verse And you'd be like I'm showing you all Chapters man, and you're showing me one verse and you'll be going back and forth on and you got to remember but by the grace of God you be in the same place that they are and and having a little bit of patience with somebody Who might just not be understanding it as well as you do as part of what we are called to do In fact, that's what the Apostle Paul told Timothy says we are patient With them that God may lead them to repentance You know Is there anything else? I smell the food.
01:16:17
I've been smelling.
01:16:18
Okay Go ahead brother.
01:16:25
I believe the Holy Spirit worked on them in Giving them the ability to believe Because I don't believe that belief is something that is conjured up by man in man Jesus said no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me grant it to him so I believe first and foremost that the work of the Holy Spirit in giving people the ability to believe is Across the board from Genesis to Revelation However, there is a promise that the church will have a dispensation and I'm not a dispensation list And if you are that's fine, but I just by using that word sometimes I can get put myself in the corner Yeah, yeah But I do believe there's a work of the Spirit that is new for the church.
01:17:12
That was not in the Old Testament And I think that that's clear in the prophecy of Joel which is fulfilled in Acts 2.
01:17:19
I think there is a special Work of the Spirit that is an indwelling abiding work that gives us the ability to worship God and serve God and to Minister in his name in a way that is different than the Old Covenant Saints but that is not to say that they weren't Saints and not to say that they weren't believers because the Bible clearly says that they were and we see the Spirit indwelling certain individuals David and you know coming upon certain individuals for certain tasks like The hair Samson, you know, sorry think about different people, you know You see these acts but the indwelling permanent indwelling of the Spirit is a New Testament promise That makes sense.
01:18:05
Yes Yes, sir Yeah I would say that the acts the moment in Acts 2 and the tongues of fire came down is when the because Jesus said unless I Go away can't come and there when he comes this will happen and we see the gift of tongues and things like that that had that Accompanied that gift.
01:18:32
I yeah, I would say during the ministry of Christ.
01:18:34
They didn't have the same Indwelling of the Spirit that they had after Pentecost.
01:18:44
Oh, okay.
01:18:45
I mean to be unclear No, I would say the indwelling and abiding of the Spirit came after Pentecost There is a point though that does raise a question and I'll ask the question there is a point where Jesus breathed on them and said received the Holy Spirit and Then it was later that Pentecost comes and that one's understood in different ways by different theologians Some people think in breathing on him He gave them the Spirit then and later everyone else would receive the Spirit at Pentecost There are others who believe that in breathing on them He was giving them the promise that would later happen at Pentecost and it's in my opinion is not Not entirely clear as to how to how to justify those two together But we do know there's a moment where Jesus breathed on them He said received the Holy Spirit and we know that they did so whether it was in that moment or whether it was what happened Later, we're not certain.
01:19:35
I'm not certain.
01:19:36
I'll say we you might be completely sir Yeah Yeah I'm just saying there's a there's a question there.
01:20:02
And again, of course, we know There was at least one apostle who did not receive the Spirit Well, I mean, you know, have I not chosen twelve and one of you is a devil I think just like any Old Testament saint who was given the gift of the Spirit for a task I think he was filled with the Spirit from birth But for the task of being the forerunner of the Messiah He is the last Old Testament prophet and I think in and that he was I think the prophets of old were filled with the Spirit I think Isaiah couldn't have done what he did were he not filled with the Spirit Again, and I and I think again the Spirit is working in the people of the Old Testament.
01:20:53
I just think in a different Way than the New Testament, so I'm just trying to trying to be again making distinctions because I've had this question before Myself did the Old Testament believers experience Regeneration, I believe they did because I don't believe you can believe with apart from regeneration Regeneration is what causes faith.