July 1, 2022 Show with Vincent Sawyer on “What the Bible Teaches About Marriage: A Commitment to Dedicate Your Home to Christ”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday during this last day before 4th of July weekend,

July 1st, 2022. And I'm so thrilled to have an old friend of mine, one of my longest lasting

Christian friendships, which dates back to the early 1990s, has been with my treasured friend,

Vincent Sawyer, formerly the pastor of Faith Baptist Church of Corona Queens, New York, and now currently the pastor of Victory Baptist Church of Port Charlotte, Florida.

My friendship with Pastor Vinnie dates back even prior to a program

I helped a number of independent fundamentalist Baptists create in the 1990s on WMCA radio titled

The Fundamental Baptist Forum, which was quite an interesting mix of pastors who sometimes were involved in heated disagreement with me, but interestingly enough, with each other as well.

And one of those brethren who always maintained a truly

Christlike and gracious spirit, I'm not saying that the others did not, but the one that stands out as being one of the most humble men

I have met in and out of independent fundamentalist Baptist circles, including my own

Reformed Baptist circles. Pastor Vinnie stands out as a shining jewel, and I'm not using hyperbole here.

He is a man that I have never met anyone who knows Vinnie, who did not tell me how much they love and admire him and appreciate him for not only his biblical literacy and his shepherd's heart, but just being a truly humble and gracious brother in Christ.

And I will dare to apply a quote from Charles Haddon Spurgeon that he actually stated in regard to John Bunyan, but wherever you prick

Vinnie Sawyer, the Bible comes flowing out, or something to that extent.

I'm not quoting perhaps Charles Spurgeon exactly in his statement on Bunyan, but I think that that could be equally applied for you,

Vinnie. And today we are going to be addressing a very important theme,

What the Bible Teaches About Marriage, a Commitment to Dedicate Your Home to Christ. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, my dear friend,

Pastor Vincent Sawyer. Thank you, Brother Chris. It's a joy to be with you, and I really appreciate your commitment to the

Scripture, your love for the Lord Jesus, your defense of the Gospel, and thank you for your just willingness to debate issues, to talk about different topics that many will tend to avoid in our circles today, but I thank you for just who you are and for your commitment to the

Scriptures. And it's a real joy to be on Iron Sharpens Iron today. Certainly, we need to sharpen one another.

If there was ever a time where we needed the encouragement of other brothers and sisters in Christ that are committed to the

Scripture, it's today. So hopefully we'll sharpen some marriages today as we talk about the first marriage from Genesis 2.

Amen. Amen. Well, before we do that, let our listeners, for the sake of our listeners who did not hear you the last time you were on this program, let our listeners know about Victory Baptist Church of Port Charlotte, Florida.

Very good, I will be glad to do that. If any of our listeners are in the southwest

Florida area, we are an independent Bible -believing

Baptist church located in Port Charlotte, not far from North Port, Punta Gorda, Venice, if you know where those areas are.

And we are committed to the expository preaching of the

Bible. And so if you love Jesus and love His Word, I think you'll find our church to be very helpful.

And that's our desire, to be faithful to the Word of God. Praise God.

And for more details, for anyone who desires to do some more research about Victory Baptist Church, Port Charlotte, Florida, go to SalvationVictory .com,

SalvationVictory .com, and God willing, we will be repeating that later on in the program.

Just out of curiosity, Vinny, before we go into the subject of marriage, the use of the term fundamentalist and fundamental

Baptist and so on seems to be a term that is fading in popularity, even amongst some of the most ardent supporters of the fundamentals of the faith, just because that word seems to communicate something that many pastors don't identify with.

I was just curious about you and your own vocabulary and your own identifying of your church.

I noticed you didn't use the word fundamental. What are your thoughts on that? I believe that every

Christian should stand for what we call the fundamentals of the faith. And they are essential doctrines with which if we believe we're saved, if we don't believe these fundamentals of the faith, we are not saved.

Fundamentals like the nature of Christ, that He is the God -Man,

God who became man and took upon Himself flesh and blood. Fundamentals like the virgin birth,

His substitutionary death, His bodily resurrection, salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

These are what we call the fundamentals of the faith. And every true child of God would have agreement here whether or not they call themselves fundamentalists.

There are other doctrines, fine points of Scripture, where believers will differ.

And in those areas we should allow freedom to differ. And even dialogue and debate those issues in a

Christ -like way. I like what Augustine said. He said, in essentials we must have unity.

In nonessentials we must allow liberty. But in all things we must show charity.

And that's what we believe. We're a fundamental church in that we believe in the fundamentals of the faith.

And, well, in regard to actually the popular use of that term that's seeming to be fading, would you understand why there are some churches that don't want to be viewed as somebody who is condemning brethren in Christ over comparatively minor issues?

And that's often how those who are called fundamentalists are viewed, and a lot of times they deserve such a viewpoint because there are many who don't know what the fundamentals are so they make every fine point of doctrine a fundamental of the faith and then they divide from other believers and slander other

Christians over those divisions or differences of opinion. And so what

I believe, Chris, is that as Christians we need to know what is cardinal doctrine, what is dogma, and we need to stand firm there.

I think another reason why many are shedding the term fundamental is because of how it has negatively been used by the press.

Those, for example, within Islam, the fundamentalist

Islamic movement would be the radical wing of that movement, and many associate the word fundamentalist with radical extremes and not a proper

Bible balance. And I could be wrong, but I think even the term fundamentalist

Baptist was created by the press during the fundamentalist Baptist controversy, I mean the fundamentalist modernist controversy in the early part of the 20th century.

Isn't that where the churches that are under that description, isn't that where they borrowed that term enthusiastically?

Yeah, I think that people, well really they determined that we need to stand up and stand together on the fundamentals of the faith or we're done because of the liberalism and the new evangelicalism that was spreading through Christendom in those days.

And so yes, it was a term that was used to describe these

Bible believers that recognized their need to really stand up for the fundamentals of the faith, but it was also a term they took to themselves and saw that indeed we're not ashamed of the fundamentals of the faith and we need to take a stand against modernism, against liberalism, and against many denominations that we're turning away from the essentials of Christianity.

Great. Well, this is a very important subject we are addressing today, marriage, and specifically what the

Bible teaches about marriage, a commitment to dedicate your home to Christ.

And I hope that if you haven't already, I'm speaking to our listeners right now, get on the phone or text or email all of your friends, family, and loved ones, whether they are people who are engaged and entering into marriage or they're newlyweds or they're people who are struggling with a problematic marriage, perhaps even on the verge of a tragic divorce or separation or what have you.

I would urge you to tell them to tune in to the Iron Troupe and Zion Radio program right now during our interview with Vinnie Sawyer.

And many of the compliments that I adorned you with at the outset of this program, perhaps only with the exception of anything involving preaching, those compliments could easily be said about your dear, sweet, godly wife

Terry and a more delightful and Christlike woman

I cannot remember ever meeting. Tell us how you and Terry met. Well, thank you,

Chris. And I am so thankful for God's grace in my life and leading a wonderful woman into my life.

I remember when the Lord saved me in 1976 that for four years

I began to grow in my faith. And I remember praying, God, I pray that you'd lead somebody into my life that loves you, that knows you as Lord and Savior, that is willing to serve you.

And for four years that didn't happen. I then went off to Bible college in Minnesota.

I'm originally from Connecticut. Went to Bible school in Minnesota and it was there

I met a young lady from Indianapolis, Indiana who would eventually become my wife.

And in my life it was interesting. I believe I had to come to the point of fully surrendering my life to the

Lord before God would lead us together. I'd been, I was saved.

I knew Christ as Savior and Lord, but I was holding back in the terms of fully surrendering my life to the will of God and saying,

God, whatever you want from me, I'm willing to do it. Wherever you want me to go, whatever you want me to be,

I just want to do your will. And when I finally came to that point where I had a

Roman 12 one and two surrender to the Lord, that's when God brought Terry and I together.

And the Lord really blessed that relationship, that courtship there at Bible college.

We continued to graduate onto graduation.

And the day after Terry graduated was the day we got married there in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

And I'm so thankful for what is now 39 years of marriage. And next

May 7th, we'll celebrate 40 years. And it seems like it's really flown by, how time has flown by, but God has been good and God has blessed us abundantly.

Amen. Well, any society, as you know full well, is only as strong as the families that make it up.

Can you briefly describe how family and marriage is under attack today? Yes, and it certainly is under attack.

Marriage is under attack today. The distinctiveness between men and women is under attack today.

Authority structures are under attack today. The roles within marriage.

What is the job of the husband? What is the role of the wife? Is there a distinction there?

This whole distinction in roles has been under attack for a long time. And I believe the institution of marriage is what really makes a strong society.

But today we have couples, rather than committing to marriage, living together in fornication, many want the benefits of marriage without the commitment of marriage.

But the Bible says, in Hebrews 13, 4, that marriage is honorable in all.

In other words, marriage is valuable in all cases. And the bed undefiled, in other words, the marriage bed or the sexual relationship within marriage is not impure.

It is not defiled. But he says, whoremongers are fornicators, and adulterers

God will judge. And so it's under attack. Sexually, marriage is under attack in so many different ways.

As I said, even gender distinction is under attack today. And when that goes, people can't figure out if they're male or female.

We've really got a sick society. One thing I should probably interject to clarify something, because liberals and leftists often use something that is an unfortunate reality to distort what you and I are saying today and what the

Bible is saying. They will respond by saying, oh, so if an unwed mother has children in her household or a widow, or someone whose husband left her is home raising children alone, that this isn't a family.

You're degrading these people and saying that this is not really a family at all.

And I'm assuming you would respond that it is certainly a family, but the ultimate design for a family is for a husband and wife to be present.

Obviously, especially in the case of widowhood, there can be no blame placed upon the woman or the children from that marriage.

So I just wanted to clarify, because leftists often use that to start slandering what

Christians are saying in this area. Well, that is so true. And what we're looking at is

God's ideal. We want to try to discover from Scripture what is God's ideal, what is

His design. Certainly, because of sin, things are not perfectly all the time what

God intended them to be. Sometimes you have divorce, and that's really tragic.

Sometimes you have mothers that got to rear the children all by themselves and praise

God for every faithful mother who trains her children in righteousness and doesn't have the support of a husband, and I take my hat off to them.

And so we need to recognize that there is the ideal, and that's really what we need to teach our young people.

We really need to show them what is God's design so that they could know what marriage ought to be like, and we certainly want to honor everyone even if they haven't had a marriage that is as perfect as it could be by the grace of God.

And you know, we need to allow for differences of opinion on this matter, too. You know,

I have four children and love my children, but we didn't always agree on every jot and tittle, and we need to grow up in society and realize that I can love you and not necessarily agree with you on everything.

And so we love those that don't agree with what we're talking about regarding a heterosexual, monogamous relationship as being

God's design for marriage, and if people want to disagree with that, they have the freedom to do so, but we should have the freedom to hold to the ideal as God designed marriage to be.

Now obviously one of the core reasons why the biblical concept of a marriage, which every

Christian that is truly a Christian would say is the only design for marriage, the only true design, one of the reasons why this is being attacked is that many question whether or not the book of Genesis, from which you are primarily taking your information during our interview today, they question whether or not the book of Genesis can be taken at face value as a literal account of God's establishment of the home.

Can you address this? Absolutely. I believe a literal, historical interpretation of the creation account in Genesis and of God's creation of marriage is indeed validated by the

Lord Jesus. So if a person was to reject what

I'm going to say today and say, well, the Genesis account is not to be understood literally, that it's not to be taken at face value, it's just a metaphor, or whatever they want to say, they really have to twist the

New Testament where Jesus, for example, in Matthew chapter 19, cites the

Genesis account as first of all written by Moses, he identifies that it was through Moses that Genesis came, and also he describes the literal creation of Adam and Eve and the marriage that God established there as being a valid way of interpreting

Genesis. Matter of fact, in Genesis 19, for Jesus answered and said unto them, this is to the

Pharisees who came to him with a question regarding divorce, he said, have you not read?

In other words, he's placing his authority on the written scripture.

He said, have you not read that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they twain shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain or two but one flesh. What therefore

God hath joined together let not man put asunder. And so he quotes the

Genesis account taking it very literally, even verbatim quoting verse 24 of chapter 2 and shows that what

God designed in the beginning was his intention that it continue that way throughout time.

Also the apostle Paul took this account very literally. In 1

Corinthians chapter 11 I'm going to just turn to verse 8.

1 Corinthians 11 and verse 8 the apostle Paul says this and again he's citing the

Genesis account. He says for the man is not of the woman but the woman of the man.

In other words, God did not create the man from the woman but he created the woman from the man.

So he takes Genesis 2 .21 very literally. Verse 9, Paul was the man created for the woman but the woman for the man.

And again that's Genesis 2 .18. So he's taking it very literally and even showing us right down to a couple of prepositions the literal interpretation of that text.

He also in 1 Timothy 2 and verse 13 says for Adam was first formed and then

Eve. And he says that Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So he took it all very literally and so if a person rejects

Genesis or says we cannot take these words at face value then they might as well reject what

Jesus had to say and what Paul had to say and we as Bible believers could never do that.

We believe the Bible is a unity and it should be taken at face value.

You know, I teach hermeneutics. That is one of the courses that I teach pastors overseas and one of the first rules of hermeneutics is what

I call the literal principle. In other words, reading the Bible in its normal way.

Understanding it as it's written. Understanding, of course, the grammar and the context.

And I often say that if the plain sense makes good sense, seek no other sense or you'll end up with nonsense.

And that's what we have today among those that refuse to take the book of Genesis. Literally, they have nonsense.

You know, it's interesting. I've heard my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries especially when he is debating with liberals and they seem to have a very indifferent if not antagonistic view of what you just said in regard to interpreting what the original authors of the texts of scripture literally in regard to their intentions for what they wrote.

And James has said to his opponents in debate, can you imagine if I began to represent a book you wrote and I completely interpret it differently than your intentions?

What would your reaction be? And, of course, they usually remain silent because they realize they would never want anybody doing that.

For some reason, they think that's completely fine just because of the age of the writings.

Since these are writings from antiquity, they think that it's fine and dandy to completely reinterpret what the original authors meant by what they wrote.

Well, that's true. And it is also true that there are figures of speech in scripture.

There are similes, metaphors, there's allegory, there's prophetic language where God will often describe a literal event that will take place, but He may use a figure.

The Bible uses parabolic language and poetic language.

But we need to interpret a text in light of its context and if the context requires that we interpret something figuratively, well, the context will make it clear.

But otherwise, we take it at face value for that's how Jesus took it.

Of course, He's the author of scripture, but when He gives His interpretation of things in the

Old Testament or in the Old Covenant scripture, He takes them very literally at face value.

And we're going to go to our first break right now. When we return, we're going to have

Vinny get right into the heart of Genesis chapter 2 involving

God's creation of Eve, the first woman, and why was she created and could it have something to do with God's statement that it is not good that the man should be alone, etc.

So if you have a Bible handy, open up to Genesis chapter 2 and we're going to be delving right into that with Pastor Vinny Sawyer.

And if you have any questions on marriage, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com

As always, give us your first name at least. Your city and state of residence and your country of residence only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are in a very troubled marriage, perhaps you are on the brink of separation or divorce, and you are not voluntarily involved in that perhaps.

There may be all kinds of things going on involving marriage, and it may not be your marriage, it might be the marriage of a child or a loved one, and you would prefer to remain anonymous.

We could readily understand that. In fact, I would want you to remain anonymous if it's something of that kind of a personal nature.

But if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Vinny Sawyer. And by the way, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com

Hope to hear from you with your questions soon. We'll be right back. Don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the entire program is

Pastor Vincent Sawyer, and he is pastor of Victory Baptist Church in Port Charlotte, Florida.

We are addressing the very important theme, What the

Bible Teaches About Marriage, a Commitment to Dedicate Your Home to Christ. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Let's go to Genesis 2 verse 20, which reads,

The man gave names to all the cattle and to the birds of the sky and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.

Now if you could, go to that text and exegete that for us, as it is at the core of what we are discussing today.

Well thank you, Chris, I'll be glad to do that. Before I do, I'd like to begin with verse 18, where God begins the section dealing with his design for marriage.

There he says, And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone.

I will make him and help me for him. This is the first time in the creation account where God said that something was not good.

When he created the earth, he said it was good. When he created the sun and the moon, he ended that section by saying it is good.

When he created the sea life, he said it was good. When he created the animals, he said it was good.

Now this is the first time God says that something is not good, and that is, he says it is not good that the man should be alone.

Now I believe in certain cases it might be good for a man to be alone.

Paul addresses that in 1st Corinthians 7, where he says, In light of the present distress, it is good for a man to be single, as Paul was at that point.

And so I believe that there are times when it is good for a man to be alone, that he may serve the

Lord without marital distraction in a context where there is persecution and opposition like the distress that people were facing in Paul's day in certain places.

Does that include his rooftop if he has a nagging wife? Yeah, better to dwell in the corner of a rooftop than in a white house with a brawling woman, right?

He says it is not good that the man be alone, and I believe this is generally the case.

It's good for a man not to be solitary, to be isolated all by himself with no communication, no helper, no ability to procreate, of course, on his own.

I believe God created mankind in his own image and in his own likeness, and even in the triune

Godhead, there is social interaction. For example, when the

Lord said in Genesis 120, Let make man in our image, he was not talking to the angelic realm.

The angels had no part in creation. He said, Let us make man in our image, plural pronouns, because God is a trinity, the

Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There's communion within the Godhead. We see this also in other scriptures in the book of Genesis and in Isaiah 6 and verse 8.

My point is that God gave man a social nature that craved companionship, and all of us crave meaningful relationships.

Children need their friends, men need other good men friends.

Some, unfortunately, go to the wrong places to try to find that friendship. Others perhaps look in classified ads to try to find it.

But a companion here was needed for fellowship, and I believe next to fellowship with the

Lord, the fellowship with our spouse should be the closest, most intimate, enjoyable, and rewarding fellowship in our life.

We need somebody to share our joys, our burdens, our triumphs, our defeats.

Adam needed that. Adam needed someone, because it was not good for the man to be alone.

So I believe implied in that statement is this, God created

Eve for Adam to be his companion, because it's not good that the man should be alone.

But also, to get to the scripture that you mentioned, Chris, in verse 20,

God created Eve for Adam to be his completer.

He says, I will make him and help me for him. And this,

I believe God's creation of Eve took place at the end of the day, on the sixth day of creation.

I believe a lot happened on that sixth day, where God creates Adam, perhaps in the morning hours of that day.

He then allows many of the animals of the land to walk in front of him.

Adam begins naming these animals, and I believe the whole purpose for this is that Adam would see their distinctiveness from himself.

The animals were different in size and shape and appearance, and they were impersonal, they didn't have a personal nature.

You may talk to your dog or cat, but they don't talk back. And God allows the animals to kind of parade in front of Adam, and Adam, having a sharp mind pre -fall, is able to, by their characteristics and traits, give them appropriate names.

But the Bible says, but for Adam, there was not an helpmeet found for him. And maybe,

I'm not dogmatic on this point, but maybe, and this would apply to anyone who's single, maybe one reason why

God hasn't yet given you a spouse is He wants you to remember what it was like to be alone, so that when you are married, you'll appreciate your spouse more.

Yeah, excellent thought. And also, He may want to mature some area of your life so that you will be better suited for the responsibilities of marriage.

But God made it evident that man needed a woman, and she was to provide him assistance.

She was to be one of the missing links in his life, so as to enable him or complete him to fulfill

God's plan for his life. And so God says, I will make a helpmeet, a suitable aide, a corresponding assistant for him.

And so the woman would be not inferior to the man, but she would complement him or complete him.

I believe that this is the reason why God created the woman, to balance him out, to fill out his other side, if you will.

It amazes me how opposites tend to attract. You'll find a tall guy often marrying a short girl, or an intelligent girl marrying a not -so -intelligent man, or maybe a quiet person marrying an outgoing person.

And I believe a good wife will fill in our weak spots, will strengthen our areas of need, and a good husband won't be too proud to let her.

I believe what God does here is he creates a helpmeet, a completer for Adam, so that she would be the missing piece of a two -piece puzzle, if you will.

And a wife, I believe, finds her fulfillment in life by fulfilling her husband.

I believe her needs are met, in large part, by meeting his needs. I heard one preacher put it this way, woman goes to an incomplete man, completes him, and then receives the benefits of his completeness.

I'll repeat that. Woman goes to an incomplete man, completes him, and then receives the benefits of his completeness.

I really believe, Chris, that I have done much more for the Lord, having been married to a godly wife, than I ever could have accomplished for the

Lord all alone. Now, I understand there are some situations where it's beneficial to be alone, but I know for most people, the

Bible teaches it's not good that the man be alone. Man needs companionship, and also man needs a completer.

I believe we can accomplish a lot more if we have that encouragement from a godly wife.

And I view my wife as my cheerleader. She is my encourager.

She is the one who, in many ways, spurs me on, and prays for me, and supports me.

And it has been said that behind every good man is a great woman. I really believe that.

And so God created Eve for Adam to be his completer.

Paul even addresses that in 1 Corinthians 11, verses 8 and 9, where he says that the woman was made for the man.

Well, as you know, the leftist society has even permeated the church, and it's amazing that even some regenerate people are buying the lies of Satan in regard to some of what you have said.

And many women in today's society genuinely believe that they exist primarily for themselves, tragically, even within the church.

And many enter marriage with the goal of what they will get out of it, instead of what they can contribute to the husband.

How is this a distortion of God's intention and design in the creation account of Eve? Well, I believe,

Chris, that, as Jesus said, you're more blessed to give than to receive.

Certainly, if we're only receiving, receiving, receiving, and we're looking for something to benefit us in life, and if life is all about us, that's an empty, hollow life.

Certainly, greatness, according to Jesus, is in serving others. We can't be a Dead Sea Christian, as I've often said.

You know, the Dead Sea in Israel is always taking in, taking in, taking in, but it's never giving out, and that's why nothing lives in the

Dead Sea. And I believe a lot of people are like Dead Sea Christians. They take in, like the

Dead Sea takes in water from the Jordan River and other tributaries, but it doesn't give out.

A lot of people take in, but they don't give out. And many young ladies enter a marriage relationship without this concept that God designed marriage, and He gave me a man to marry so that I can invest my life into his life.

You know, it's like they're all looking for what the husband can do for them, and it's all about them.

If they enter that marriage without considering, and I'm talking to Christians now, because I believe

God's principles are for God's people, you know, they're going to have an empty life and an empty marriage.

I believe that in this account where God says that He would make a help me for Adam, that that in essence describes

God's, part of God's intention in marriage, and that is that the woman would view her role as being a contributor to her husband, and being used of God to help him be all that he can be.

And when she completes her husband in this way, she finds her fulfillment in life.

In this account of God's creation of the woman, nothing instead of her being a child bearer, although she was designed to give birth to children, all of the emphasis here is on her being

Adam's partner and helper. And so wives, your first and foremost responsibility is to your husband, and vice versa.

Husband, your first and foremost responsibility is to your wife. Yes, God blesses homes with children, but the priority relationship in that home is the husband and wife relationship.

If you base your relationship around your children, and you have child -centered parenting, you are going to rear dysfunctional children who think that the world revolves around them, that it's all about them.

And so we need wives today that are going to serve their husband, they're going to help their husband be all that he can be for the glory of God, and then they will find their fulfillment in life.

But you will never be happy until you fulfill the purpose for which you were created, and redeemed, and married, and so if you're married, focus on pouring your energies into helping your husband be all that he could be for the glory of God.

Be his completer. Amen. And we have to go to our midway break right now. If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And again, give us your first name at least, your city, and state, and country of residence. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a very personal and private matter.

This is the longer -than -normal break, folks, because every day in the middle of the show, Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer midway break because they are required by the

FCC to localize this program and all of their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

And they do so by airing their own public service announcements and other things. We simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please, use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

We absolutely, positively need our advertisers to exist. So if they hear from you, that's going to certainly give them more reasons to renew their advertising contracts with us.

Because if we lose our advertisers, we are going off the air for certain. And when you can't purchase their products, use their services, visit their churches, support their parachurch organizations, please at least thank them for sponsoring this show.

If you are indeed grateful that somebody's sharing the money that God has given them with us so that we can stay on the air.

And send in your questions to Vinnie Sawyer and Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We'll be right back, don't go away. Attention all men in ministry leadership, you're all invited to my friend

Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday September 22nd, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring me,

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker. Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand -new books donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and the United Kingdom, personally selected by Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002.

631 -291 -7002. Or by visiting IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you

Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring, you probably have questions. How do you make your savings last?

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Do what it takes to get there. Now it's time to make the most of retirement. Visit EdwardJones .com.

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717 -258 -4688. We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 717 -258 -4688 today. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster larger catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

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Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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But do you know what requires no training at all? Becoming a parent. My name is

AM Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast. I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what

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That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White at the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. If you love

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries excited to announce that my longtime friend

Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington D .C.

for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org. That's g3min .org.

And click on events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington D .C.

So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington D .C.

for the G3 Ministries regional conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org.

That's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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Before I return to my guest today, Pastor Vincent Sawyer of Victory Baptist Church in Port Charlotte, Florida, on the theme of marriage, we just have a couple more announcements to make.

First of all, if you really love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear, I'm urging you, please go to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and if you prefer snail mail, mailing in a physical check to a physical address, well, when you click support at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot com, there will also be a physical address that appears on the screen where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what

I believe, you don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that is at least compatible with what

I believe, then please send in your email soon and put advertising in the subject line.

Send it to Chris Orensen at gmail dot com, Chris Orensen at gmail dot com, and I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars, too.

We are facing a crossroads, folks, here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We have been streaming through First Love Radio for nearly as long as our show has been broadcasting out of Pennsylvania, and First Love Radio is making a change in their format to exclusively feature commercial -free programming.

And although we intend to remain on First Love Radio with an edited broadcast where all of our commercials are edited out, we still need to live this, live stream this programming through another network or service because we cannot give up our advertising.

We cannot exist without our advertising. So we're going to be needing extra funds, not only for the editing of this show so that First Love Radio can continue airing it in an edited version with no commercials, and we also need extra funds for live streaming it in another service or network because we need to air a version of this live with commercials.

So please help us. We're in urgent need of your help. Right now, I don't know where we're going to have this extra income, so please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click support, then click, click to donate now. Please remember that I never want anybody giving their own church where they are a member less money in order to give a gift financially to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Please never do that. Don't cut into your regular giving to your church to bless us. Also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait till you're financially stable before you send us a financial gift.

Those two things are commands of God and scripture providing for church and family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you love this show and you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for recreational and frivolous purposes, you don't want us to disappear, please use some of that money to help us remain on the air.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful Christ -honoring church like Victory Baptist Church in Port Charlotte, Florida, well, no matter where you live on the planet

Earth, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe, and I would love to help you find a church no matter where in the world you live.

I've helped many people in all parts of the planet Earth find churches, sometimes within just a couple of minutes from where they live, and I may be able to help you too.

Send in your email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Pastor Vinnie Sawyer of Victory Baptist Church of Port Charlotte, Florida.

On the theme of marriage, chrisarnsen at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

And before I go to any listener questions, I want to further make sure that you have completed what you were talking about before the break, which is basically that Christian parents must avoid the idolatry of their children, which

I think is a frequent circumstance even in Christian households, and where the child and children become more important than a spouse's relationship with his spouse.

And if you could just pick up on that where you left off, and then we can move on to another issue that is a part of our discussion here.

Sure. Well, I would say if you want rear -spoiled brat, then just give them your undivided attention 24 -7.

Ignore your spouse. Let them know the world revolves around them, and they are almost like your little god.

But if you want to rear good children, let them know that your priority in your home is your spouse, and that you and your spouse agree on the training and discipline of the children.

Otherwise, children will pit one against the other. They need to know that you are a unity.

But my point today is that God created Eve for Adam. Although he did create her to bear children, that was not her primary role as originally created.

God created Eve for Adam to be his companion and to be his completer.

He said, it is not good that the man should be alone, and I will make a helpmeet for him.

And so that's very important to note. It's just a matter of priority. Yes, you love your children.

We are to train up our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. We are to give them our attention.

But don't do so at the expense of your marriage. Always let them know that your relationship with your spouse is priority, and that will go a long way in helping them in their marriage in the future, that they will invest all the time and energy into their marriage that will help both with their marriage and with their parenting.

Amen. Now, as far as the actual details of the creation account in Genesis, instead of creating

Eve from the ground as he did with Adam, the Lord created Eve from Adam's side.

What do you see as God's reason for doing it this way? I believe that God created

Eve from Adam to express the oneness or the unity that he desires in the husband and wife relationship.

I think her origin shows the oneness that God wants in marriage. He illustrates that by forming

Eve from Adam's side. In Genesis 2 .21, the Bible says,

And the Lord God, Yahweh Elohim, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam.

I call it a divine anesthetic that made Adam oblivious to the surgery that God was about to perform.

And so he puts Adam to sleep, and while he slept, he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof.

So he takes from Adam's side, literally the word rib refers to his side, the word encompasses both the bone and the surrounding flesh.

That's why Adam, when he gives his testimony in verse 23, he says, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.

And so from that bone and flesh, God fashions or builds a woman.

And the way he creates the woman reveals his design for a close union in marriage.

God could have easily, like you said, Chris, have created Eve out of the dust, like he did

Adam. By the way, the word Adam means from the dirt or from the ground.

If you study the human body and you study soil, you'll find that the same elements and minerals that are in the ground are in the human body.

But he chose to not form her from the ground like he made the man. He chose to make her from Adam's body to demonstrate the unity that God wants in marriage.

And it's also important to note on this line that when he does form the woman, he forms one woman from Adam's side.

He could have created a whole harem if he wanted to. But I believe polygamy is a perversion of God's design.

He formed one woman from Adam's side, showing us that marriage is to be a monogamous relationship, not a polygamous relationship.

Also, I'd like to note that he makes a woman from Adam's side and not another man.

I believe that he forms a woman because homosexuality and lesbianism are a twisting of God's original intent.

Their names were Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. God could have formed another man from Adam's side, but he didn't.

He forms a woman, one who would be corresponding to Adam, yet different to balance him out.

And by the way, in a home, a child needs the balance of traits that a father brings to that relationship as well as the traits that a mother brings into that home.

But he makes a woman, singular, from Adam's side, and it's interesting that he makes her from his side.

I like what Augustine said. He said, God did not take a bone from Adam's head from which to create

Eve, that she might be above him, nor a bone from his foot that she might be beneath him, but from his side that she might be beside him, close to his heart, and yet under his arm for protection.

Well, I think although the emphasis here is not necessarily on where the bone was located, but on the fact that the woman's body came from the man's body, so as to express the unity that husbands should have with their wife,

I think it's also interesting, Chris, that in order for our Lord Jesus to acquire a bride, he allowed himself to be pierced in his side.

Also to fulfill Zechariah chapter 12, which says that they shall look upon me whom they have pierced.

But my point here theologically is that Christ's side would be pierced, that he might acquire a bride when he was riveted to that cross, but also just as Jesus would give of his side to acquire a bride,

I believe that Adam got his bride by giving of his side, and of course it's

God who sovereignly arranged it this way. And when we get married, we ought to love our wives as we do our own bodies.

He says in Ephesians 5, 28, he that loveth his wife loveth himself. She is your, look at her as your flesh and blood.

That's how God wants us to view our spouse. Well, I don't want to...

I'm sorry, have you not finished? Yeah, I was going to also mention that in this verse, he says

God brought her unto the man. I believe every marriage should start with God.

Every believer should get his wife from God. Just as God brought her to the man, let

God bring the one he wants in your life. And that would be, if you're a

Christian, a godly believer. Unequal yokes are never

God's will. 2 Corinthians 6, 14 says, Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

For what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Now, if you're already in a marriage where you're married to a nonbeliever, you're to stay content in that relationship.

1 Corinthians chapter 7 talks about that. But my point here is God brought her, and the fact that he brought her tells me that she was a gift to the man.

Do you view your wife as a gift to be enjoyed or a thorn to be endured? The Bible says,

Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing and obtaineth favor of the Lord. We ought to view our wife as a gift from God.

Amen. And I don't want to go off the rails here too much by sidetracking you, but since this is at the heart of a controversy, current day, in fact it's been a controversy for quite a long time, the intrusion of feminism into the body of Christ has been a controversial event that teaches egalitarianism.

Sometimes it's just in the church where they believe women can be pastors and elders.

Sometimes that is extended even into the home where there is no male headship in the home.

And I have to be quick to interject because I don't want to slander some of the biblically faithful and conservative denominations that who

I think wrongly ordain women into the pastorate, but they don't necessarily do so because of liberalism and its encroachment upon the church.

Some of them have been doing it that way for centuries because it has been historically attached to the

Wesleyan holiness movement and so on. I still disagree with it, but it's just a different phenomenon than liberalism is.

But in any case, those that have an egalitarian view of leadership, they seem to deny a very important concept in the scriptures that we find in a number of places, but specifically involving what you were just talking about in 1

Timothy 2, and starting in verse 11, a woman must gently receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created and then

Eve, and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer.

The thing that I, although I readily believe in this, and accept it as being something that must be obeyed in the church,

I don't understand why the order of creation would have something to do with women being prohibited from leadership.

I understand it's a fact and it's true, I just don't understand why. And it's also interesting that Paul, I mean it wasn't just Paul in his own mind and that's it,

God used Paul to breathe out this truth that Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman was deceived.

You would think that Adam would be less of a candidate for authority since he knowingly sinned.

But anyway, if you could pick up where I left off there on why do you think the order had something to do, the order of creation,

Adam being created first, has something to do with the headship of men in the church in perpetuity and in the home?

Yes. Well, it's a good question. Very good, Chris. And I do believe that God's work must be done

God's way. And there's only one place where we would find what

God would expect both in the home and in the church, and that is in His Word.

I believe what we find in the home happening today is reflected by what we see happening in churches today, where in the home we don't have a lot of good male leadership, and in many churches we lack good male leadership.

In the home we have many wives taking over, and the husband is passive.

He's not a servant leader. The wife is not submissive to his authority.

She calls the shot, and he'd better get in line. And we see the same thing creeping over into the church.

But just as it was God's intention, and again, we're talking about what God's design is, not what people are doing today or what's in popular opinion today.

It was God's design that the husband be the servant leader in the home.

Perhaps I'll talk a little bit about that if we have time today or on another broadcast.

But a wife is expected to submit herself under the authority of her husband. She is to allow her husband to serve her by leading her, providing for her, protecting her.

And just as God designed that the home be led by the husband,

God designed the church to be led by men. It's not to say that women don't have gifts or that they are not gifted speakers or don't have leadership skills, but what he's saying is that his design is that the husband be the elder or pastor or overseer of the church.

The very next chapter, which you just quoted from in 1 Timothy 3, he describes the qualifications for the bishop or the overseer of a church.

And he says that if any man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth the good work.

He will go on to describe how he must qualify both spiritually and domestically.

He says, one that ruleth well his own house. He must be the husband of one wife, he will say, and that's hard for a wife to fulfill.

And so when he gives the qualifications for the pastor, he's clearly describing male leadership.

Now to address the text you brought up and the question you have, let me say that it's not only here in 1

Timothy chapter 2 where he makes that statement, but in 1 Corinthians 14, 34, he says, let your women keep silent in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

So he addresses it there as well. Now to get specific with your question from 1

Timothy 2, when he says that the women should learn in silence, he doesn't allow women to teach or to exercise authority over the man, but to be in silence, he gives two reasons.

Number one is creation order, for Adam was first formed, then

Eve, showing that God's original intent was that the man be the leader, and that the wife be the supporter, in a supporting role.

And so he cites creation order, but then he also cites in verse 14, because there are differences in the genders, contrary to what we hear today in the nonsense being proliferated in our world, men and women are different.

They are different in many ways. Men generally think more with their head, women think more with their heart.

They are more emotionally driven. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I believe what he is saying here is this, I want male leadership in the home for the reason that men are less likely to be deceived than women because of their emotional nature, because of a woman's more emotional nature than the man.

And, you know, when Adam sinned, he knew what he was doing. He was not deceived. The woman was tricked or deceived.

So I believe that he brings that up here in this context because by virtue of a typical female's distinction with her emotional capabilities, which, by the way, again, fill out man's other side.

They support the man. They're not to be despised. The differences in the genders are not weapons to fight with, but tools to build with.

And they ought to be appreciated. I do appreciate Terry, my wife's more emotional nature than me, and her softer heart than me.

But I also recognize that with such strength comes the potential for problems when it comes to leadership.

And God knows that. And even if the world doesn't see it, I believe that's what

Paul is addressing here. I'm so moved by what you said,

I'm getting teary -eyed. I'm only kidding. But after that joke,

I do have to interject here. There's obviously nothing at all effeminate about a man crying over the truth of God's Word.

I've witnessed it. I've witnessed it with the manliest of men from the pulpit, even.

And I think that we have to clarify here, that these commands are not connected to giftedness.

For instance, you could have a pastor of a church that is really not the most articulate orator in town.

And you could even have a woman, she might be a speaker at some kind of social groups, meetings, or what have you, or even a speaker at a church women's ministry.

And she might be infinitely a better speaker than her own pastor. She might even be more biblically literate.

She might even be more brilliant. But none of that is an open door to violate what

God has commanded. Because I hear those kinds of reasons as to opening the door for women in leadership over men in the church.

They're simply just, they're not biblical reasons, and they're using a human wisdom to violate clear commands in Scripture.

Well I agree, Chris. But the question also needs to be answered, then why did God give them that gift?

Why did He give them an ability to communicate, in some cases much better than maybe their pastor?

I believe here's the reason. God does have a ministry for women in local church ministry.

And it is not to teach men. But the Bible says in Titus 2 and verse 3 that the older women are to be in behavior as become as holiness, not false accusers, not given a much wine, teachers of good things, teachers of good things, listen, that they may teach the young women, the younger women, meaning younger in the

Lord and perhaps younger in age, to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet chaste keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemy.

So God does have a purpose for women that are gifted when it comes to speaking or teaching, and that is they have a responsibility to teach, train, mentor the younger women in that church.

And also, is not a man, especially in regard to male headship in the household, is not a man an idiot and a moron and a proud bully and tyrant if he never, if he never, if he never counsels, or should

I say receives counsel from his wife, especially in areas where she may be more knowledgeable.

I mean, you may have a wife who is an accountant, and she is infinitely more knowledgeable in matters of finances.

Now the husband still has the final say, but he's stupid if he never consults his wife for her opinions in every area of the household.

That's so true. As a matter of fact, God may be speaking to you through your spouse, and God very often uses a godly wife to give good advice to her husband, and that should be accepted.

Be thankful that you have a wife that knows the Lord and loves the Lord and loves the

Scripture, and is willing to give advice and counsel, and a wise man will listen to that advice.

A fool will ignore it. I believe that we need more Abigails.

Abigail had a husband, Nabal, who wouldn't listen to her. He ended up being killed as a result.

I believe we need women with wisdom in our homes that can pray properly and advise biblically, and a husband would be very wise to listen to that.

But again, when you have a disagreement, or when you cannot arrive at a mutually agreed upon decision, then

God has a plan that will help avoid the wife throwing the frying pan at her husband, and that is that the wife would submit to the leadership decision of her husband at that point.

Well, there's a perfect window here for a listener question, because it relates to what you were just saying.

It's from an anonymous listener who says, I completely understand everything you are saying, but you have not as of yet addressed the issue of a

Christian woman being married to an unbeliever. When is she to submit to her husband, and when is she to impose her views and decisions upon him, especially when it is a matter of obeying

Christ? Good question. Of course my purpose in the message today is to show

God's design for marriage, and in a little bit I'd like to conclude with Genesis 2.

So we're looking at God's design, but in many cases you're going to have, for example, a wife who's married to an unbelieving husband.

Or he might even be a professing believer who's a moron. I mean, when I say that, I mean, he could be even a believer in name only.

He could be a false believer. True. And so, in either case,

God doesn't qualify things when he says, wives, submit to your husbands, except we do know from Scripture that if an authority was to ever ask you to do something that would lead you to violate a higher authority, being

God's authority, that is the time when it is right to gracefully disobey that authority's decision.

And so, a wife would be proper to not obey her husband if he was ever to ask her to do something that would lead her to violate a clear command of Scripture that applies to her.

For example, if a husband said, I don't want you reading your Bible or praying anymore, well, then she has to obey

God rather than men, her man. Just like Daniel, with the authority said, no more praying to anyone except to Darius the king, well, he kept right on opening his window toward the east and praying to the true and living

God. They said to Peter and John, no more preaching in the name of Jesus. And they said, whether it's right in the sight of God to obey you rather than God, you be the judge.

But we cannot help but speak those things which we have seen and heard. So at that point, it was right for them to disobey the religious authority and rather obey

God and keep preaching Jesus. So it is to be done graciously, humbly, and there are times when a wife's disobedience to her husband is not only expected but commanded, and that is if he was ever to ask her to do something that would violate her conscience, in the sense of she'd be violating a clear mandate of Scripture by doing so.

Yes, and we have to go to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

So we're going to pick up right where we left off, and if you have a question, send it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

immediately. chrisarnsen at gmail .com, so we can get it before we run out of time.

God bless, and we'll be right back. We'll be right back.

Hello, my name is

Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Bye now.

Bye now.

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson and Pastor Vinnie.

If God intended from the start that Adam would be the servant leader of his wife, the word leader there obviously implies submission on the part of the wife.

How do you understand submission? And even if you could define what a servant leader is. Sure. First of all, every leader is really a servant of the ones that he leads.

According to Jesus, greatness is being a servant. And our Lord was, you know what a leader does?

He provides some form of service for the one he leads. We believe in a government that is for the people, for example.

So our governing authorities in our country should be serving the people of the country. And of course, that is rapidly eroding and disappearing with the leftists who are totalitarians in places of authority.

That's exactly right. But God's form of leadership is that that leader be a servant.

So when we talk about a husband being the leader, what we're saying, he's the prime minister of the home.

And when we talk about a wife submitting to her husband, what we're simply saying is, allow your husband to serve you.

That's the Vince Sawyer definition of submission. Allow your husband to serve you.

Boy, a lot of ladies will like that definition. And what that implies is this, is that a wife who submits to her husband is going to stop disallowing him to perform his role.

She's going to allow her husband to serve her by providing the guidance, the sustenance, the protection that that family needs.

And so I believe it's a misunderstood topic today. Maybe someday we could spend more time talking about it.

But I believe the husband as the head is to provide direction for the wife, and the wife should be sensitively responsive to that direction.

And in fact, don't you think that when the New Testament commands that husbands love their wives as Christ loved the church, that that is actually a far more difficult task to perform than submitting, the command of the woman to submit?

I'm not saying that it's harder for a man to love his wife as Christ loved the church in his deceived notion that he's achieved that.

I'm not talking about that. But I'm talking about the true comparison of our love for our wives and Christ's love for our church.

We can never really reach that level of love on this planet. That is so true, and I think you bring up a very good point that if a husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, that certainly is a higher and more difficult achievement than a wife submitting to her husband, because that is as high as it can be.

We need to sacrifice for our wife. It implies giving of time and attention, and literally providing for our family.

And so husbands need to realize that just in the same way that Christ loved

His church and gave Himself for her as a sacrifice, that we are called to sacrifice our life for our spouse, and to give our life to our spouse.

And then if you ever want to know as a wife how you ought to respond to your husband, just ask yourself, how should the church respond to Christ?

Because he says that that's the pattern in Ephesians chapter 5, that as the church is subject unto

Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands and everything. But it's going to require faith to submit to your husband's authority.

Can you trust God to work through your husband's decisions, even if you don't think he's making the wisest of choices?

It's a matter of faith, it's a faith issue. Amen, and ultimately marriage is a picture of Christ's relationship to His church.

And in about 30 seconds, can you explain that, because we're rapidly running out of time? Absolutely.

God ordained marriage to be an illustration of Christ's relationship to His Bride.

We as believers are called the Bride of Christ, and He gave Himself for us that we might be

His Bride, and He forged a permanent relationship with us.

And I want to encourage anyone who's married, that just as Jesus will never divorce

His Bride, so you would remain faithful to your spouse as well.

And so there's many lessons there, but Ephesians 5 says that it's a picture of Christ's relationship to His Bride.

Well, it's been such a joy to have you back on the show, Vinny, and we cannot wait another period of months and years before you return.

We've got to have you on the show more frequently. I want to remind our listeners that your website is

SalvationVictory .com, SalvationVictory .com. I want to thank you so much for being a superb guest, as you always are.

I want to thank our listeners, especially the individual who took the time to write in a question. I hope you all have a safe and happy and healthy and Christ -honoring weekend,

Lord's Day and Independence Day celebration. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater