Why I Love Jesus But Reject Islam

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona, this is The Dividing Line.

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The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence.

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Our host is Dr. James White, Director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an Elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

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This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll free across the

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United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic, here is

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James White. And welcome to The Dividing Line on a Tuesday morning. It is great to have you with us.

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Please pray for us that everything will work today. Most of you know the Wayback Machine is down right now and that means the entire computer we normally use to stream all of this and do everything is deader than the proverbial doornail.

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It is on the floor. Its guts are on the floor. There are little screws every place and we're waiting for stuff to arrive.

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So we are flying with bailing wire and we were going to use duct tape but now we're using painter's tape.

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Yeah, the blue painter's tape is what we're using to hold everything together. So pray that it all stays together and nothing goes wrong because I'm really looking forward to the program today.

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Very excited. Got out of bed this morning, rushed to the computer to make sure the upload had taken place during the evening and YouTube had gotten everything right.

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There's been times I've uploaded long videos to YouTube and the audio was gone and the video was there and stuff like that.

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Many of you have now already seen our new video that was just posted on the blog, posted on YouTube, featuring

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Ivy Connerly, Why Love Jesus but Reject Islam?

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And it is a response to an Islamic video. Ivy's going to be joining me but first I want to play the videos.

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I want you to hear, if you have not yet heard, what prompted us to do this.

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Now, going back a little ways, you know that there was a viral video, last time

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I saw it it had like 17 and a half million views, where an evangelical did a

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Why I Hate Religion but Love Jesus video and many people responded to that in various ways and I believe it was by Twitter.

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Twitter is becoming a big way for me to get information, I have to admit. Yeah, you've got to work through a lot of stuff that isn't overly good information but once in a while there are some links that are sent that are pretty good and Twitter and Facebook, that's how people are communicating these days.

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And I was sent a link to an Islamic version or a response to that viral video, which as I'm looking here on the screen, has been viewed 760 ,573 times.

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Now that's less than a tenth than the original but that's a very healthy number. And as soon as I watched it,

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I thought, you know, this is how people are communicating today and I'm an old

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Scottish fogey, I'm an old man and I'm bald and all the rest of that stuff. I know,

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I'm not really an old man, I'm in late middle age but in comparison to these folks I'm old enough to be the fathers of most of them in that way.

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So you know, I thought, you know, there's got to be a way to respond to this and to correct the misunderstandings, the many misunderstandings presented by the young man by the name of Kamal Saleh, who did the poem representing a very common, what was good about it was it was a very common

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Islamic understanding of things, of Christianity and so on and so forth.

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So I put out a call and Ivy Connerly, who had just put out an album recently, that featured yours truly.

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No, I don't do rap but I will read things and I will read them in my deep radio announcer's voice at times because I did grow up doing radio and I can still do that if I want to.

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I can still go K -W -A -O, the home of the great entertainers, FM 106 .3, the top of your entertainment dial.

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Yes, I did that when I was 16 years old. I have pictures with much hair and very skinny demonstrating that I did that when

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I was in high school. Even my high school newspaper covered it. But anyway, he had done just a video, an album just recently and he said, hey,

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I would be happy to work with you on this. What can we do? And so I wrote a bunch of stuff.

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I basically listened to this Islamic video and I responded to it in a brief, concise way.

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I sent that to Ivy. He took what I had written, added some of his own stuff and we worked together to create this poem.

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Is it a song? Is it a poem? I'm not sure exactly how you even describe this. It's poetry set to music, which normally what music is.

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But anyway, and so early this morning, that video was posted on YouTube and we are asking your assistance to get that video out to everybody that you know.

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Send it out in links. If you're going to send out that annoying email that you send out to your family and friends about stuff that really doesn't matter, go ahead and send this out because it really does matter.

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And it's called Spoken Word. Okay, there you go. Spoken Word. I guess that's one way of putting it.

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So it's Spoken Word. That's what we're doing. Johnny Redeemed and Channel tells me it's Spoken Word. All right.

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Be that as it may, it's out there and I'm excited about it because I just think that it turned out really, really well.

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It's great. So let's listen to the Islamic video first.

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And it's four minutes and 59 seconds. I think ours is right at 527, so we're right around the same length.

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Let's listen to the Islamic video first. This is Kamal Saleh. And then we will provide our response.

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Here's the Jesus is greater than religion. The Muslim version. Look, what if I told you there was something you were missing?

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What if I told you that Jesus doesn't really fit into your description? What if I told you that follower of Christ doesn't automatically mean

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Christian? And just because you believe in faith doesn't mean Jesus didn't believe in submission and conviction.

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Listen, you say Jesus was God and that God had descended. We say

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Jesus was God and that God had descended. You say Jesus was man for Jesus was dependent. Our God is all great and cannot be comprehended.

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You say that God was murdered or do you believe that he pretended to God gave us brains and God gave us logic.

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But I guess God wanted us to use them in everything else except for this topic. It's like wearing a cross and proclaiming that you love

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Jesus. When if God was murdered on the cross, the cross really shouldn't please us. I mean, would you be wearing an axe if it was used to chop your mother up into pieces?

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See, this is what happens when you believe in faith, but fail to believe in reason. See, we used to worship the creator until Satan turned us to the creation.

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We began to worship the people and neglect the one who made them. We began to believe that God had died, but how could a

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God even be created? A miraculous birth and therefore the son of God was begotten.

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See, the creation of Jesus was easy, but you seem to have forgotten that God says be and it is, just like with Adam, a concept too complex for the church to merely fathom.

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But he was the creator of the universe for all we know even more. And so what if we can't see him?

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I mean, what you acting like our universe is small? I mean, there's still so much we're still yet to explore.

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I mean, there's still so many things as human beings we still haven't seen, touched, heard, or saw. I mean, our eyes can't even handle the sight of the sun.

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So how can we possibly handle the sight of our Lord? See, Jesus used to pray, but in your opinion, who'd he pray to?

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I mean, if Jesus was God, surely pray would be of no use. Or did he only require it when he needed to know the truth?

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Like when God wasn't sure whether it was the season of the fruit. Or maybe he prayed when there was something he couldn't do.

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Like when he said, I of myself can do nothing. But you took it as there's nothing he couldn't do.

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See, no one used to worship Jesus, so ask yourself, why do you? A concept so straightforward, but it's left so many confused.

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See, Jesus preached one God, but the churches failed to practice. And I mean, you don't have to be that dumb to know that 1 plus 1 plus 1 equaling 1 isn't necessarily going to give you a pass in mathematics.

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See, the church said 3, and Jesus said 1. Jesus said

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God, and the church said Son. Jesus never said worship me, rather he said pray.

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But you've chosen to worship Jesus, despite everything he used to say. You began to think with your emotion, and forgot to think with your mind.

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I guess you didn't pay attention when Jesus says our father, yet never says mine.

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You claim to be a follower of Christ, yet you still choose to eat swine. And you call yourselves

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Christians, but in your churches you're busy drinking wine. And just to clarify,

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I do love Jesus. Matter of fact, I love him more than you. Because when Jesus said do something,

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I actually do. However, I'm not connected with the church, nor with the Bible.

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See, I love Jesus as my prophet, but refuse to worship him as an idol. Just like he wanted, and proclaimed it as sin.

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So it doesn't really matter if they don't let him in, because Jesus wouldn't even want to be in the presence of people worshiping an idol of him.

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An act of God, bolt of lightning, went straight through the outstretched hand of Jesus. This cannot be a coincidence.

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Before I move on, there's something I need to mention. The worshiping of Jesus is a man -made invention.

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He never asked for your worship so he can grant you protection. Rather, he asked you to alternate your prayers towards another direction.

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To God and God only, and pray that he accepts them. And know that just because you love

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Jesus, doesn't mean he feels the same way about your affection. See, what you believe in is exactly what he resented.

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Matter of fact, it's everything he despised. See, the worshiping of creation goes against the very message he supplied.

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So you began to follow a religion, and called it love in disguise. Because love can be good, but love can be blind.

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Giant Jesus is no more. Alright, there you go. There is the

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Muslim video as it appeared. And we've actually provided three responses. First, a

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Turretin fan posted a written response, which I've linked to on YouTube as well.

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And it's on the blog. And then last night, I posted a brief 52 -minute, almost hour -long response, going point by point through almost all of it.

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I mean, toward the end it got a little bit repetitious, and I didn't want to go over an hour because I figured people wouldn't even start listening to it.

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And I realize most people won't anyways. But still, I provided a pretty full response on YouTube as well.

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Knowing, however, that we had gotten in touch with Ivy Connerly, and I knew what was coming.

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And so now, so, so thankful to be able to play. Now, of course, the video is so much better.

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I mean, there's great graphics. Marcus Pittman did a great job with this. Crown Rights, which

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Marcus runs, did a great job producing this. I'm very, very pleased with this. I love that you can't get away with this.

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When he's making his fingers walk across the screen, and there's this little white line that goes along with it.

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I mean, this is really, really good. Which, unfortunately, on The Dividing Line, we're at a sort of audio. So you can't see any of that.

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So you've got to watch this on the blog. But I want to have the audio here on the program as well.

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So here, for the first time on The Dividing Line, our response to the

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Muslim video, Why I Love Jesus But Reject Islam.

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But the Bible, you say you don't believe it. You think it's corrupt, but it bears record of these men.

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If that's the case, you might want to read this again. Surah 634, there's a contradiction.

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It states no one has the power to twist the words of Allah. But the Bible is fiction. Because you say these men spoke the words of Allah.

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So how could this be if the Bible's a lie? You say we believe in faith and not reason. But you're the one that holds to Muhammad's inconsistent teachings.

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Surah 3 and 3 reveals the Torah and the Gospel. So this is where it's going to get a little hostile. The Gospel, the good news.

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What does this mean to us? Man is born wicked to pray, but God is just. And since we broke all his laws, he must punish.

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So when it comes to the wicked, you can't run from it. Try going up to a judge pleading to be set free.

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After being charged with rape and murder in the first degree. If he's a good judge, he must sentence you.

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So if God is a good God, what do you think he's going to do? You should know Muhammad wasn't even a prophet at all.

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So why is Islam trying to be justified by laws? I hope you get it. You see, God required lambs without spot or blemish.

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A perfect sacrifice is what it always represented. To be slain for the sins of men.

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But these animals was innocent. And all of this was pointing to the Messiah, the Christ.

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The perfect lamb who takes away the sins of the world. The true light. Christ says, I am the way, the truth, and the life.

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And no one comes to the father but by me. And you said he's not God? Well, he said you would die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.

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Things seen and unseen, he possesses. Born of a virgin, begotten as a man, but always existed.

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That's Micah 5, 2. Read John 1, verse 1 through 10. Yeah, the God's son.

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He curated heavens and the earth. That's Colossians chapter 1, the 16th verse. Now flip a page.

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Look at chapter 2, verse 9. Now how could you not see he is divine? You say that he never claimed to be

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God? Well, that's odd. Go back to John, chapter 8 and 58. He surpassed timing.

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He said before Abraham, Ego Aina. And long before Muhammad came to the scene, the apostle

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Paul say, May it never be that I would boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me.

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And I to the world. See, the cross is the hinge of history. The focus of time itself.

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The blessed meeting point where God's wrath and God's mercy can be met in the unique person of Jesus Christ himself.

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Outside of his cross, his sacrifice, without a mediator, it's hopelessness. And your sins are still level before you.

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So good luck trying to be justified by your own self -righteousness. Jesus was totally in submission.

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So he did nothing of himself apart from the father, right? He said he does whatever the father does or the father gives life.

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So what kind of man gives life, takes the wrath of his father and his humanity dies?

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Three days later, rise with the body that's glorified. Only the God man, the hypostatic union.

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Why did he pray to his father? Because the son and the father had always been in perfect communion. And one plus one plus one equals one.

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Try on God. Well, I mean, each person in the Trinity is fully God. Elohim.

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One God, three distinct persons, the same in essence. The mystery of the Holy Trinity is truly a blessing.

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Matthew 28, nine. Christ was worship and he didn't stop because he's worth it.

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He told that rich young ruler. Only God is good. Then in John 10, 11, he said, I'm the good shepherd.

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Understood. Why? Obviously, he didn't know who he was talking to. If he did, he probably would have sold all his precious

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Jews. And yet Christ cursed the fig tree because it didn't bear fruit in season. The tree represented national

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Israel. That's the real reason. The purpose of this is to hope that the blind would see why

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I love Jesus. Because his righteousness was imputed to me and my sins was imputed to him.

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So the father poured out his full wrath on God, the son on that tree. Now, all true believers is justified by the finished work alone of the prince.

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Well, there you go. Wow. We managed to get a lot.

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And I do mean a lot of of theology into a very short period of time there.

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Now, I don't see anything on my screen, Rich. There's nothing on my screen at all.

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And if I have to bring that up, that's not a good thing because there's nothing there at all.

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Let me click again on it. You know what? If you bring the program up a second time, it actually works.

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Anyway, so I am really, really excited to bring online with me right now, Ivy Connerly.

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And Ivy, thank you very much for joining me today on The Dividing Line. Hey, thank you.

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Thank you, Dr. White. I appreciate it. Man, I'll tell you, just watching that again, tell us a little bit about the actual making of the video.

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Because I know you had to go with a backup plan as far as the location and stuff goes.

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And I haven't actually heard the whole story on that. So let's start there. What happened the first day?

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Well, what happened, we got there, and me and Marcus had a little bit of trouble.

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Actually, I say a lot of trouble. With the sound and with the lighting, we tried to do it outside.

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We wanted to do it even outside of a mosque. But just the sound from the cars in the city wouldn't permit us.

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And, like I said, also the lighting. So we couldn't really get any good work done that day, the first day.

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Like day and a half, really. We were really trying to make it work. But it seemed like it just was one obstacle after another.

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So we was graced to actually go to Marcus' church and shoot it.

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And that's where we actually got it done at. Well, good. Excellent, excellent.

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So, now, had you actually seen the Muslim video before I sent you the email?

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Or was that the first time you had seen it? No, that was the first time. I've seen the other one, the one from the

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Evangelical, I forget the guy's name. But the one that got 6 or 17 million views,

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I've seen that one. But I've never seen the Muslim one until you sent it. And then I clicked on it and I was just amazed by some of the things he was saying and how he was definitely poorly representing

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Christianity. So I was grateful that you got in touch with me about that.

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Well, now, it was interesting because I sent you some stuff in email, but clearly you've had some interaction with Muslims before because you raised issues about the

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Koran and the corruption of scripture and stuff like that.

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So what kind of interaction have you had with Muslims in the past? Well, me and Javon McKenzie, we set up our table in front of different establishments around the city because we sell our

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CDs, our gospel music. So we get a chance to meet a little bit of everybody from all backgrounds, all religions and so forth.

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So, yeah, we actually had favor to set up in front of a

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Muslim store out here in Jacksonville. So every time we would interact with them, we would just point to them, share the gospel, let them know in love, of course, that you have no sacrifice, basically, and your sins are still before you.

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And shockingly, these Muslims still allowed us to set up, even though we gave them just a clear presentation of the gospel.

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So they still gave us favor. And really, Marcus sent me some information,

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Marcus Pittman, about Surah 2, 1, 3, 6, is what I quoted on there, and some other surahs as well.

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Yeah, yeah. And yeah, he sent me that. So I went to the

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Koran and read it and was seeing how I can piece it together and make it rhyme. So he provided some information.

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And also David, a .k .a. Hip -Hop, him and Marcus challenged me on rewriting it.

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Because I sent you a version before that's different from the final one that we have now.

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And they just challenged me to rewrite it because they said it didn't really flow as much as it should have.

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Well, it's really hard. I mean, let's face it. I mean, the video you're responding to covered, you know, 47 different topics.

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So you have to, you know, it's like when I'm in a debate and my opponent is using the scattergun method and just throwing everything into the kitchen sink out,

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I have to, while I'm listening, go, all right, what's most important? What can I respond to in a meaningful way that the audience is going to remember?

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And focus on that. But it's not easy to respond to a video like this that addresses so many different topics.

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It's not like you've got one theme that you can necessarily focus on as well as you'd like.

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So I knew it was going to be a real challenge. Yeah. But I really felt like there needed to,

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I mean, look, this is not the way the Reformed Baptists do things, okay?

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I mean, this is outside of, you know, if you know what the Trinity Hymnal is, you know there's nothing in there past about 1878 as far as the dates goes.

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And so this isn't the normal Reformed Baptist way of doing things, but this is how young people are communicating with each other today.

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And someone in channel was actually saying while we were listening to you, they were saying that this is the proper use of contextualization.

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There's no compromise. You're translating the language that people can understand, but there is deep, deep theology.

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It's biblical. It's straightforward. I mean, you had big letters on the screen.

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Mohammed was not a prophet. I mean, you've got to realize that if this ends up on YouTube in Iran, you know, you might find some imam or mullah is up late at night watching it and he doesn't appreciate your comments there.

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So it's a challenge. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely.

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Definitely. Now tell me a little something about the album that you just put out as well, because that was only dropped, what, a week and a half, two weeks ago as far as right before we started working on this, right?

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Yeah. Yeah. And the theme of it was, you know, based on God's justice.

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So, you know, it was good that we even had a chance to, you know, put that in the video. Right. I actually used—I have a song on the album.

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The album's called The Justice System, and I have a song on it called Divine. And, you know, that's a song just really, of course, explaining

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Christ's deity and just using quite a few scriptures to clear it up because a lot of people are, of course, uncertain in that area.

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So I used bits and pieces from that as well to help out with the piece that we put together.

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Right. You know, with all the information that you gave me. And when

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I—I just was like—I was floored. And then, you know, what Marcus gave me, too, and I was just like, wow,

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I can piece together all this, and it can come out hopefully great to the glory of God.

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But the album, like I said, is called The Justice System. It's got 19 tracks on it.

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Thank you again for just, you know, gracing me with your time and, you know, getting on a couple of— it's like three,

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I think you did, three excerpts on the album. And, you know, many people are blessed by it from my church where I go to,

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Waterlife Community Church here in Jacksonville, Florida, with Pastor Rod Hendricks and Michael Williams.

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You know, the whole ministry has been supportive, you know, and has gotten

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CDs and whatnot. And quite a few people, of course, are familiar with you and your ministry.

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Well, how does that happen? I always wonder, how do people find out about this little tiny ministry in Phoenix, Arizona?

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How do they—how did you stumble across me initially? Oh, wow. Well, I've actually been familiar with you now for, like,

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I want to say about two years, maybe three. So, like, when

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I had an email from you, I remember a while ago, you hit me up and was like, you know—

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I remember when I had the album called Election. Right. Many people, even Marcus Pittman, when he had a talk radio show, he was like, yeah,

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James White was in the beginning of it. And everybody was like, yeah, it's James White. And I was like, yeah, he sounds just like James White, but a guy named

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Daniel Uros in California somewhere. And then when you hit me up and you was like, hey,

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I don't know which message this is. So if you could direct me, I thought that was funny. Yeah. That you didn't even, you know what

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I'm saying, know which message it was. I know you do a lot of, you know, ministry. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't.

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I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, you know, when you hit me up,

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I was like, who is this? I was like, I thought at first somebody was kind of joking around with me because they know

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I'm used to watching a lot of the videos and whatnot. And I'm just very interested in apologetics, of course, like I believe we all should be.

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But so when I got the email, I'm just like, wow, you know, it just really shocked me. And I was just, you know, blessed by it that she actually, you know, gave the election song thumbs up anyway, you know.

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And then that's when I just was like, man, I would love to have you on something like on my next album.

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And that's when I just released Denial. So when I was putting together the Just System is when, you know,

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I got a chance to, you know, we got a chance to really build even more through email. And then you just, you know, blessed me with those excerpts that really, really just hammered in with what

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Just System was all about. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I sat right where I'm sitting right now.

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This is the only studio we've got. And I had heard some folks have used stuff off the

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Internet and it doesn't sound as good. But at least I'm sitting here. We can do a high quality wave that at least, you know, sounds like it's meant to meant to be used on the album and stuff.

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So, well, that's it's always amazing to me when I when I first started hearing people saying, hey, did you hear that such and such a person mentioned you?

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And I'm like, how in the world would they know I exist? It's always it's always sort of funny. But there seems to be a whole group of guys that have really glommed on to the debates and stuff that we're doing and stuff like that.

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And it's it's been really encouraging to get to get to know some of them over the years. And I was just when

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I saw this, I just put the word out, said, hey, we've got to we've got to respond to this. There's got to be a way to use this to our advantage.

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So now here's the now we haven't got I haven't gotten word back yet.

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But I mentioned to you and I mentioned everybody else because I want I want folks to pray this will happen.

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But, look, we've put out I've told you this. And now I'm telling the audience we've put out the feelers and have invited two

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Muslims to be on a program with with me and Ivy.

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So it'd be it'd be two and two. So it'd be it'd be fair to have a discussion here on the program. I've invited

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Abdullah Kunda, my debate partner down in Sydney, and Kamal Saleh.

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In other words, the fellow who did the Islamic video. So we'd have we'd have the two guys who recorded the videos who would be able to do the, you know, the lyrical part.

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And then you've got poor Abdullah and I who just sort of have to talk in monotones. That's about all we're really capable of.

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But I've put out the invitation and I'm really hoping that they'll take us up on that invitation. I think a lot of folks would like to hear a the the a conversation, a conversation, an invitation.

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They actually rhyme, don't they? I'm starting to pick this up. If I if I hang around with you a little bit more,

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I start getting a little bit of a beat. But I I'm afraid I'm Scottish and we just we carry we carry claymores and we cut stuff up.

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We don't do it very rhythmically. But yeah, so I'm hoping that's going to happen.

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But but my friend, but my friend, this is not something that I talk to you about.

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And I doubt unless you do a lot of multitasking, I doubt you've been checking your email while we've been talking.

31:28

But if you do, I I sent you something while we were talking. And what

31:34

I would like to do is I'd like to see if you might be be willing to work with me again.

31:41

I I sent you something I've already written and it's

31:48

I've I've even got a good title, too. And I think a lot of folks would would love to hear this.

31:54

It's called 40 Arabic words. It is the text of Surah for 157, which is, of course, the one

32:03

Ayah in all of the Quran that denies the crucifixion of Jesus. And it is a huge barrier between the gospel and the

32:15

Muslim people, because how can it be? How can how can you tell me that Jesus's death, burial and resurrection is the way of eternal life?

32:24

When my book says it didn't even happen. And so what I've done is I've I've already written it.

32:30

And I've sent it to you because obviously, when I say I've written it, I just like we did before. I've gone through the various points, laid out the facts toward the end.

32:39

To be honest with you, it does actually get just a little bit lyrical.

32:47

And I think I'm actually looking forward to to seeing if you if you decide you want to want to want to work with me on this.

32:56

I I sort of looking forward to to seeing what you can do with this, because it is what

33:06

I did is I is I contrasted the 40

33:11

Arabic words, which is found in, you know, in the let me see if I'm trying to trying to pull this up, but I can't can't pull it up right now for some odd reason.

33:22

I'm not sure why. Hopefully it got sent to you anyways. But I contrast the 40

33:28

Arabic words in the Quran with the 33 Greek words of Galatians 220. I have been crucified with Christ.

33:35

Nevertheless, I live yet not I. But Christ lives in me in the life which I now live in the flesh. I live by the faith, the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

33:43

And that particular text becomes the counterbalance to what what the

33:52

Quran says. And so if I know you can't necessarily speak for Marcus, but I somehow have a feeling that we know a little bit about where Marcus is on these things.

34:03

So. So what do you think? We're not in a huge hurry, but you think that would be something you'd like to be involved with?

34:09

Again, I would be honored. It would be my pleasure to do it. I mean, like like I said, for a few years now,

34:17

I thank God for your ministry because I've been tremendously blessed. Me and my brothers around here in Jacksonville, Florida, even in.

34:26

I got one guy in Phoenix that I believe God is really working on his heart and he's been checking out some of your videos and whatnot.

34:35

So, yeah, yeah. Again, I mean, I consider it a privilege. I would definitely get to it.

34:41

And, you know, whatever time frame we're looking at, just it's all on you. You let me know and it's a go.

34:47

Well, here's here's here's what we've done. The we obviously we need other other people to help us to do this.

34:56

We were able to to help with the with the costs and stuff like that. So we have already put on the

35:01

Web site. It's already up there on my blog, a link. And we're just asking everybody in the listening audience join with us.

35:10

We want to produce a video responding to serve for one to seven, a gospel presentation that that overcomes this barrier for the

35:19

Muslim people. I finally got a chance to bring it up. Let me just read you a little bit of what

35:24

I what I sent to you here. And like I said, I'll be very interested in how you make it a whole lot better than the way

35:29

I put it. But this is sort of in the middle toward this is 40 Arabic words to keep you from knowing.

35:35

Jesus is the one who will save his people with great power and perfect holiness from their sins. Matthew one twenty one.

35:41

So let me introduce you to thirty three Greek words that mean life and salvation and peace and forgiveness.

35:48

Thirty three Greek words that are more precious to me than life. Thirty three Greek words that every Christian confesses, that every

35:54

Christian shouts with joy and gladness. Thirty three Greek words we whisper at the deathbed and the graveside.

36:00

I have been crucified together with the Messiah and is no longer I who live, but the Messiah living in me.

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This fleshly life I now live. I live by faith in the son of God, the one who loved me and gave himself in my behalf.

36:12

That is why the believer says of the apostle, may it never be that I should boast except in this one thing.

36:17

In the cross of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, by which the world is crucified to me and I to the world.

36:24

And I gave my own translations there so we don't have to worry about any issues along along those lines.

36:30

But that's that's how I finished it off. So that's sitting in your email box and it's ready for you.

36:38

And if folks want to help us put this together, hit our Web site. You'll see the blog article that will be right above the blog article containing the video that we just finished doing.

36:50

And you can help us to put this together because I really am excited. This is a way to communicate to people so far beyond, you know, just where you and I can can reach them personally.

37:04

I mean, this is the kind of thing that goes into countries that you and I never get the chance to go into.

37:10

That's what's so exciting about living today. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Right.

37:16

So, hey, so you're down the Jacksonville area. So if if if I got into. So Atlanta is still a good distance away because I'm supposed to be down in Atlanta either in late

37:26

August or in December. One of the two. We haven't figured out exactly how it's going to work yet. But I would love to find some way of getting together once I'm I'm out there traveling.

37:37

And we could we could get into all sorts of trouble together. Oh, yeah.

37:45

All right. Oh, around that time, I'm actually relocating, moving back to California.

37:54

That's where I'm originally from. OK. And so I'll be in the Hemet area.

38:00

So now really, you know, instead of six hours away from Atlanta, I'll be six hours away from.

38:07

That's right. That's right. In fact, so if you're going to the Hemet area, I know I'm supposed to be going over to.

38:18

Honestly, Rich, I looked for the calendar on the Facebook page. I couldn't find it. But somewhere, I believe in the.

38:25

Somebody told me it was there. I just couldn't find it. I think it's the first weekend in May.

38:31

I just shocked you went on Facebook. The first weekend in May, I am supposed to be in Southern California.

38:41

And one of the things we're trying to work out is my being able to spend at least a brief amount of time with a church there in Hemet.

38:52

So I'm somewhere I'm supposed to be heading that direction. So if you're going to be there by May, then we got no excuses.

38:59

We won't be able to hook up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely be there in May, God willing. I'm moving in about three weeks from here.

39:07

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, I hate to tell you this is you move to California.

39:13

Given the state's debt, you'll be one hundred eighty six thousand dollars in debt to the state. But just so you know,

39:18

I just hate to hate to sort of give that a bit of a bummer to you.

39:23

But that's that's the joy of California, I guess. So. But anyway.

39:29

Yeah, it almost feels like that out here, too. So, yeah, I guess one of the reasons why

39:35

I'm moving, too, to be honest. OK. All right, man. Well, hey, let's let's pray that this video gets all over the place.

39:43

I really, really hope that people will help us by, hey, sending this out to people.

39:49

Have you seen this, et cetera, et cetera. Get it out there. Help us get that news out there.

39:55

We don't have the big bucks some people have to promote videos. And we really, really hope that, you know, the

40:01

Muslim video was seen on the CNN belief blog. I don't think we're going to get that kind of attention, unfortunately.

40:08

I wish that we would, because, yeah, if the Muslims do it, that's one thing. But the Christians respond, you know, no, no, no.

40:15

Well, we'll see. It would be great if something like that were to were to happen. I sent it to Justin Brierley in London because I know they play music like that on their stations over there.

40:28

So who knows? Maybe we can get it over there. But if you're listening and you have a heart to reach

40:34

Muslims, do what you can, please, to get these links out. And then pray for us as we look toward doing another video, this one overcoming one of the greatest barriers in the gospel presentation to Muslims.

40:47

Forty Arabic words on Surah 4, verse 157. And, of course, pray for both

40:54

Ivy and myself. I mean, we have different ministries and we confess outside the spirit of God.

40:59

There's nothing we can do. And as Ivy applies his great talents to my efforts in writing what's important in regards to responding to that text and trying to turn it into something that flows, you know, certainly pray that the

41:17

Lord be glorified and all that. So once again, thank you very, very much for your participation.

41:23

This has been really exciting. I'm really excited to see what the Lord is going to do with it. And we obviously will be in touch with you in the very near future.

41:32

Sounds good. Thank you so much for your time and just everything. Thank you for your ministry. And yes,

41:38

I definitely keep you guys lifted in prayer. And please do the same for me, too. And, you know, for all the listeners, yes, do what you can.

41:47

Get that link out there. That's right. Yeah, yeah. All right. And you be careful driving across the

41:52

United States. It's a long trip when you're moving. Yeah, I sure will, definitely. All right. Thank you.

41:58

Thank you, brother. God bless. Thank you, too. All right. Bye -bye. Bye -bye. All right.

42:03

There's Ivy Carnally. And the video, once again, is on the blog.

42:09

It is on YouTube. It's in Twitter. It's on Facebook. It's – I mean,

42:14

I'm sure it is on Facebook, not just in the way that – is it just from the blog? Or is there a way to post videos in Facebook, too?

42:21

It might be – yeah. So it's there. And please try to get that out there.

42:27

And if you look at the website, our blog, even right now, you will see that we have posted a link.

42:38

At least I hope we posted a link. I'm going to refresh it now just to make sure of things when

42:43

I say these things. Yep. Help us produce 40 Arabic words, a gospel presentation for Muslims around the world.

42:50

And you will see the PayPal link down there. As I mentioned there, we went a little bit over last time.

42:56

Look, it's – if you know – you know, just compare and contrast for a moment.

43:05

Ivy's video with Marcus Pittman and the video that I shot. Now, mine is much longer.

43:11

And mine goes into a lot of depth. And I don't think there's anything wrong with mine. But, you know, which one is going to get the most views?

43:19

Okay? I mean, seriously. So the – doing it professionally is the way to do it.

43:29

And so I've put a number there of $750. I would love to see how fast we could raise that.

43:35

That would be a real way of people saying, yeah, we want more of this. We want solid, sound theology.

43:40

It's going to get to people that just aren't being gotten to otherwise. And so that's what is on the blog even right now.

43:50

And, of course, I knew that Ivy would want to work on this. But, of course, if he's moving in three weeks.

43:59

These young guys, they don't need to sleep. They can go all – they can just – you know, that'll just be great.

44:06

So, once again, my thanks to Ivy, to Marcus Pittman and the hard work that he did. Marcus and I were conversing back and forth a lot last night because we needed to transfer that file and get it uploaded and all sorts of stuff like that.

44:18

So it's exciting. Thank you to everyone who made this possible. And to everyone who will make it possible for us to do 40

44:25

Arabic words, a gospel presentation dealing with Surah 4, 157.

44:31

If you're not, for some reason, familiar with Surah 4, 157, I imagine almost everybody on this – listening to this stream is.

44:39

But let me just mention it. And it's normal rendering in the Yusuf Ali translation that they said and boast, we killed

44:45

Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah. But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them.

44:53

And those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.

45:03

That is the one ayah in all of the Quran that denies the crucifixion of Jesus.

45:11

And that is why, of course, we need to respond to it.

45:18

There's a lot of other things to respond to. And so for the rest of the program, let's talk about what is on everybody's mind.

45:28

I did take the time yesterday to comment on my blog about what a lot of people have been saying on the subject of T .D.

45:44

Jakes and The Elephant Room 2. We spent an hour on the program.

45:51

What I did in written form in the blog yesterday was to lay out some of the specific words that T .D.

46:03

Jakes used and basically ask the question, does this really sound like what you would expect from someone who has changed their views?

46:15

Now, I don't think the doctrine of the Trinity is something that you just change views about.

46:21

Sort of like, well, you know, once I was a premillennialist and now

46:29

I'm an amillennialist. But I don't like to argue about it and I don't have any problem with my premillennial friends.

46:37

I don't have any problem with my postmillennial friends. You know what? That's what I say. That's where I am, okay?

46:47

If you can compare changing your views about amillennialism and postmillennialism and premillennialism and pre -tribulation and mid -tribulation and post -tribulation and all that kind of stuff, if you can do all that, if you can compare that to the

47:06

Trinity, I've got a real problem with your understanding of the centrality of the doctrine of the Trinity. I really, really do.

47:13

And even after doing the program on Friday, I was thinking again as I was listening to James McDonald and Brian Brodersen of Calvary Chapel and all these folks making the statements that they were making.

47:31

I just thought to myself, you know, there's something missing here.

47:38

And all of a sudden it hit me. It hit me this morning. Just out of the blue. Remember? Oh, how long ago was it now?

47:45

I don't know. Three, four months ago. When the Mike Licona thing. Remember when we reviewed

47:51

Mike Licona's appearance on Unbelievable with Justin Brierley and who?

47:58

Bart Ehrman. And what was one of the things? This was sort of before the Norman Geisler thing.

48:03

This was actually last summer now that I think about it. This was before the Norman Geisler thing. I didn't look it up on the blog, but I probably could have, should have.

48:14

But if I recall correctly, I titled some comments I made on that,

48:19

The Reluctant Inerrantist. Because what it was was you could just tell by the way that Mike Licona was speaking was that he was reluctant to say, yeah,

48:34

I believe in inerrancy. I mean, he waited till way down the road to bring it up. And you can just tell that, well,

48:42

I don't want to say this in front of Bart Ehrman because I know what Bart Ehrman is going to do. Look, I've encountered

48:47

Bart Ehrman. I've had personal interaction with Bart Ehrman. Bart Ehrman laughed at me on the phone because I dared quote

48:54

Paul's words to Timothy that scripture is theanistos. Now, of course, he doesn't believe those were

48:59

Paul's words anyways. But, well, that's the only place, that's the only place it appears. How can you believe?

49:05

Yeah, I know. I know how Bart Ehrman works. I understand that.

49:11

But that's not going to stop me for a second from confessing with passion because it's consistent with what

49:20

I believe, my belief in inerrancy. Well, you know what?

49:26

The best you could say, I mean, if you put the best spin, if you ignore the fact that Jakes continues to baptize in a oneness fashion, a modalistic fashion,

49:36

Jesus name only, you ignore the fact that he won't change his statement of faith, that he uses unorthodox language in his statement of faith, even ignore the fact that he actually made the statement to Driscoll, you call it modalism,

49:51

I call it Pauline. If that's a defense of modalism, I'm not really sure what it is. But, you know, put all that stuff aside and say

50:00

T .D. Jakes is a Trinitarian. Well, then, he is a really reluctant one.

50:07

He ain't no passionate one. He's not professing

50:12

Trinitarianism as something that he loves, as something that's central to his understanding of God.

50:19

It's more like, well, you know, I really sort of want to get along with you guys, and I sort of want to have access to your circles and stuff like that.

50:31

So, you know, the key to that door is to say, I'm comfortable with that.

50:38

There is the issue. I mean, what would you think of someone who says,

50:44

I'm comfortable with inerrancy, but it really doesn't, those terms really don't do it for me.

50:50

Would you have a whole lot of confidence that this person's going to stand firm for the doctrine of inerrancy?

50:58

I wouldn't, personally. That would tell me something. But even more so, if we're actually being told that Jakes has left his oneness perspective, he's abandoned it, and he's going someplace else.

51:18

He's entered into Trinitarian orthodoxy.

51:27

Did his words communicate that? Are you reluctant to confess your orthodoxy?

51:37

I used the example, what if a person had once denied justification by faith alone?

51:44

And now you're trying to convince people, well, yeah, this person for years has said that Sola Fide is wrong, and Sola Fide is a misrepresentation of Paul, and all the rest of that stuff.

52:01

But look, he's changed his mind. He's with us now, and you get him up there, and you start talking about it, and he goes, well, yeah,

52:11

I'm comfortable with that. But really, Sola Fide just doesn't really do it for me.

52:17

It doesn't go all the way for me. And on his website, he continues to talk about the necessity of doing good works to be justified in God's sight.

52:32

And you go, well, what about that? Well, you know, you call that work salvation. I just call it biblical.

52:37

How much confidence, logically speaking, should we have that such a person has actually embraced

52:49

Sola Fide? Because it's like what I said in regards to Francis Beckwith and all the people who are in the mere

53:03

Christianity camp. Francis Beckwith may have left Roman Catholicism for a while in the sense that he wasn't attending a

53:17

Roman Catholic church. But remember the illustration that I used in the lengthy blog articles I wrote in response to his conversion?

53:24

I said, if you leave Rome, if you cross the

53:31

Tiber going the other direction, then I believe a real conversion involves you rowing your boat across that river, getting out onto the other side, then breaking the boat up, because you're not even thinking about ever going back, you break the boat up and you use the wood to construct a pulpit from which you then proclaim the gospel of grace back across the river to the people on the other side.

54:04

That's how you demonstrate that you abjure the errors that had once been yours.

54:09

But you see, oh, today, we don't want that. We don't want people to have to actually admit that there is a truth and an error and that they had been wrong about something.

54:18

I mean, who are you to think in such a way? That's terrible. And so we see this all around us.

54:30

We see this in the people who are playing footsies with the Mormons. And it's like, well, why don't you, if we can get them to be just a little bit more orthodox, just a little bit more orthodox, maybe a few less gods.

54:47

Isn't that a great thing? Maybe just down to three gods instead of an unlimited number of gods.

54:54

You know? Yeah, Ryan and Chan will just put it in good... My views on Sola Fide don't differ that much from what you believe.

55:01

Remember, that's exactly what TD Jake said. My confession of faith is almost identical to yours, except for, yeah, this manifestations thing.

55:12

Honestly, the immediate response from Driscoll or any orthodox man within voice distance of TD Jake's should have been something along the lines of, of course, the main question that needed to be asked.

55:31

And that was, look, do you believe that the son as a divine person, distinguishable from the father, existed eternally as a person prior to his birth in Bethlehem?

55:49

Follow up question. Did the father and the son have personal communion, communication and fellowship for eternity past?

55:58

Not as ideas, but as persons prior to the incarnation? Yes, no, maybe.

56:05

What's your view? And it would have just been so straightforward to be able to say, well, when he said, well, you know,

56:17

I like this manifestations thing. How about just going, Bishop Jakes, did the manifestation of the father eternally exist in communion with, in love with, in communication with the manifestation of the son and the manifestation of the spirit?

56:36

Was that all that difficult? Was that all that hard? And yet nobody said a word.

56:44

Nobody said a word. And it makes you wonder if we saw someone dealing with the gospel in that way, who had stood before us and had preached on Sola Fide, and I believe in justification by faith.

57:03

If you say you believe something and it's passionate and it's central, don't you ask meaningful questions about it?

57:13

Isn't its glory, isn't its accurate understanding, isn't that really important to you?

57:20

I don't see any evidence that the people who are ushering T .D.

57:26

Jakes into the Orthodox camp today really are consistently passionate about these issues.

57:35

And it might maybe possibly have something to do with the fact that most of them have never taken this message outside of the

57:46

United States and its comfy evangelical areas in an apologetic sense to present it out to the world, out to Islam.

57:57

Most of them have never debated a oneness theologian, and it shows. It really, really shows.

58:05

Well, hey, thanks again, folks. Do everything you can to help us please get the word out on the video that was posted today.

58:13

And, of course, I'm looking forward to seeing when we can raise the funds to do the next video, 40

58:19

Arabic Words, an evangelical evangelistic tool for dealing with presenting the gospel to the

58:27

Muslims. Looking forward to that, too. We'll be back again on Thursday here on The Dividing Line. We'll see you then.

58:32

God bless. The Dividing Line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries.

59:24

If you'd like to contact us, call us at 602 -973 -4602 or write us at P .O.

59:30

Box 37106. Phoenix, Arizona, 85069. You can also find us on the

59:35

World Wide Web at AOMIN .org. That's A -O -M -I -N dot O -R -G, where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates, and tracks.