Class Submitted Questions about Ethics

Sovereign Grace Family Church

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November 8, 2019

00:08: Oh, good evening, everyone.
00:19: Y'all sound so excited to be here.
00:21: This is the last class.
00:24: You've made it through another term.
00:26: If you started with us when we first began earlier in the year, this is the third time we have come to a final session, and we looked at the calendar for next year, and we've already got our outline.
00:44: It's not nailed in stone yet or fixed in stone or set in stone or whatever the word is.
00:49: But right now we're looking at January and February being our first term, then taking a few weeks off, and then the end of March and April and the beginning of May being our second term, then a June and July term, and taking again August off like we did this year and having one last term, sort of like this one, between September and November.
01:15: So that's the plan for next year, to do four terms.
01:19: My goal right now is to do a Greek, it's a Greek vocabulary course.
01:27: It is not grammar, it is basic vocabulary, and anyone should be able to do it.
01:35: You don't have to have any previous requirement in Greek to take this class, but this class will prepare you if you want to go into Greek grammar, if you want to go deeper into studying the Greek language, this would be a fantastic foundation for you.
01:53: Even if you don't though, this is a very good class for helping you to be able to use the Greek tools that are available to you online and in a lot of your study Bibles that reference the Greek.
02:08: So this is a very good foundational class.
02:12: We will be following the textbook almost to a T, because the textbook that we're using is literally a one step at a time, you have to do every step because one step builds on the next step and we can't skip.
02:27: We're going to do one step at a time, we're going to do part in class, part at home, but the majority is going to be in class and what you do at home is just to build on what we do in the classroom.
02:37: So if you're interested in getting the book already, I'll have it here, you can write it down.
02:41: This is the course book that we're going to be doing starting in January, it's called Basic Greek in 30 Minutes a Day and it is a very useful tool.
02:52: The next course after that will probably be a survey of the Old Testament.
02:58: We're looking at doing, we want to get back to scripture and actually digging in.
03:05: So we're looking at, and again, eight weeks in the Old Testament is not very long, but I hope that you will see what the purpose is, is not to exegete each book, but really to give you an overview of the entirety of the Old Testament as it is in a large snapshot.
03:24: Because if you don't have a picture of the Old Testament, if you don't really have an idea of what goes where and why, then it's very hard to dig into the minutia if you don't have a broad overview.
03:37: And so we're going to do that.
03:39: And that's probably going to be the first two terms.
03:42: So I hope you guys plan to join us for that.
03:44: As I said, tonight is the last in our study of ethics.
03:48: And I'm really, I've been excited about this class because we're going to deal with the questions that you have provided to me as ones that apparently were concerns of yours.
04:01: But before we do that, we're going to do a little preliminary work.
04:05: The first thing we're going to note is that if you have done your homework each week, even if you miss one or two weeks, if you've done it the majority of the week, that's a big part of your grade.
04:16: So if you want the certificate, do the paper.
04:21: But keep in mind, your paper is a smaller percentage of your grade because of the homework this time.
04:28: So if you feel intimidated by the paper, oh, I don't think my writing is good enough or I don't think I would produce a good enough paper to get a passing grade.
04:38: Trust me, if you do the paper, you will because of the work you've done, if you've done both, they're accumulative, they're adding up to your to your final score.
04:48: And again, if you get over a C, you earn the certificate.
04:53: So that's our sort of our benchmark.
04:57: So I hope that everybody plans to do that.
04:59: If you didn't do the papers, if you didn't do the weekly papers, you better turn in a really good final paper because again, your grades are going to, it's going to balance out.
05:09: It's not impossible, but it is going to hurt you some if you didn't do the weekly work.
05:14: All right.
05:15: We have done right now seven weeks on ethics.
05:19: We did our introductory week where we talked about why we study ethics.
05:24: We talked about what is goodness.
05:27: And then our second week, we looked at Christians and biblical law, and I wanted to mention how many of you have done your reading? I appreciate the honesty, but I didn't see very many hands.
05:41: How many of you maybe didn't do all the reading, but you read a bit of this book? All right.
05:47: Good.
05:48: Did most of the reading.
05:49: Well, did you find it to be beneficial? Was it helpful? Was it surprising at certain points? What he had to say regarding the law? Absolutely.
06:00: All right.
06:01: A little different approach.
06:03: I really appreciate Schreiner.
06:04: He is he's he really is, I think, a gift to the church in a lot of ways.
06:11: He's not perfect.
06:12: I would disagree with him on small things.
06:15: But for the most part, especially his lectures in Galatians, are terrific.
06:21: But this book, I hope, has been helpful to you.
06:23: One of the things that I hope that you noticed is he deals with what I would call practical Christian questions, such as the question of the Sabbath.
06:34: Did you guys read the part about the Sabbath? I think that was part of the required reading.
06:40: I would love to hear your question.
06:43: I obviously didn't understand it.
06:45: OK, what part is what what part are you having difficulty with? OK.
07:23: OK, trying to find where the word outmoded is used.
07:31: Maybe.
07:35: Yeah.
07:36: Yeah.
07:38: Well, the word that's used in the text in Hebrews eight is the word obsolete.
07:46: You guys are familiar with what obsolete means when something better comes along.
07:52: It makes what was before it obsolete.
07:56: You know, used to people would have a cell phone that was a flip phone with just buttons.
08:03: Maybe you still have that.
08:04: I'm not saying that's wrong to have, but a lot of people that's what I remember when the Razer cell phone came out and everybody.
08:14: It was it was the coolest thing and everybody wanted one.
08:19: And if you didn't have a Razer, you weren't with it and all that.
08:24: Exactly.
08:25: Everybody thought it was the coolest thing.
08:26: And then the iPhone came out and people were like, well, what happened to the Razer? Well, it became obsolete because it didn't play music and it didn't show videos.
08:36: And then the the next generation of iPhone came out and it made the first generation obsolete.
08:42: And if you were to buy a first generation iPhone now.
08:46: You wouldn't even work because of the updates and the software.
08:51: It doesn't even compute.
08:54: And that's the word and very much the same meaning.
08:58: That's the word that Paul gives.
09:01: I'm sorry.
09:01: No, excuse me.
09:03: That's the word that the writer of Hebrews gives.
09:05: I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews.
09:06: I should correct that.
09:08: That's that is the word that the writer of Hebrews gives to the Old Covenant.
09:13: Baby, close that door, would you? I don't call everybody, baby.
09:15: She's my wife for the video sake.
09:18: Somebody later like, wow, he's pretty comfortable with his students.
09:21: Yeah, I know, you know, but somebody later.
09:24: It's like an awkward.
09:25: This was mine, right? What's that? Yeah, it's like, who's he going, baby? Anyway, so in the book of Hebrews, chapter eight, verse 13, it says that the Old Covenant has been made obsolete.
09:45: And that is a that is a difficult thing for a lot of people to accept.
09:51: Until you begin to look at how we practically work that out, we practically work that out by not living as the Jews lived.
09:59: We don't obey the the same restrictive laws that were given to Israel that were intended to separate them as a nation.
10:09: For instance, the dietary restrictions are no longer maintained.
10:14: If you had a pork sandwich in the last few weeks, then you would have been in violation of the Old Covenant law.
10:20: Were you under the Old Covenant law? But you're not.
10:24: And the same thing is true of circumcision.
10:26: Now, you might be circumcised because that was the tradition of your parents or the tradition of the hospital in which you were born.
10:33: But you were likely not circumcised on the eighth day by a mohel, which is a Jewish circumcision expert, a man who does those things today in what is called a bris, which is a Jewish ceremony of circumcision.
10:49: And it's a pretty interesting ceremony.
10:52: And I imagine none of us who are men were circumcised like that, unless, of course, you were born into a Jewish family.
10:59: So we understand that those things have been made obsolete.
11:02: Well, the question of the Sabbath, of course, I did a debate on this, which several of you attended.
11:08: The question of the Sabbath is, is the Sabbath, because it is part of the Ten Commandments, is it a moral imperative? A Shriner, along with myself, would argue that it's not a moral imperative.
11:24: And the reason why it is included in the Ten Commandments is because it is part, it is the sign of the covenant God gave to Moses.
11:31: That's stated several times in the Old Testament.
11:33: The Sabbath is the sign of the covenant God made with Moses.
11:37: And the Ten Commandments are the are the covenant that's called the tablets of the covenant.
11:43: And so why would the Sabbath be a part of the covenantal law? Because it is the sign of the covenant.
11:51: And so the other side of that would say that we do have to obey the Sabbath today because it is moral.
12:00: And yet it has been changed.
12:04: The Sabbath used to be on the sixth day.
12:07: I'm sorry, the seventh day, which was Saturday.
12:09: But those who believe in what is called a Christian Sabbath would say that it changed to Sunday.
12:18: Yep.
12:18: And they would argue that the Lord's Day is the Lord's Sabbath day.
12:22: And again, I don't want to get into all that.
12:24: But that again, an ethical dilemma comes up when we say, OK, you're a Sabbatarian.
12:31: That's a person who believes in the Sabbath, who believes Sunday is the Sabbath.
12:36: Are you allowed to go to a restaurant on Sunday? Well, it depends on who you ask.
12:42: Different Sabbatarians see it different ways.
12:44: Some Sabbatarians would say, yes, I can go to a restaurant.
12:48: Because I'm not working and they're the ones breaking the Sabbath, not me.
12:57: And then you go to the question of cooking and the question of.
13:02: She don't want to cook.
13:03: Yeah, well, I give a story from my father-in-law.
13:06: My father-in-law grew up in rural North Carolina and grew up to a very strict in a very strict Christian home.
13:14: And his parents would not cook on Sunday.
13:17: Neither would they go to a restaurant.
13:19: So his mother, your grandmother, would prepare the meal on Saturday and cover it with a sheet because they didn't have the type of refrigeration and reheating that we have today.
13:32: So they would simply cook the food, put it under a large bed sheet.
13:36: And after church on Sunday, they'd come home and have Sunday dinner.
13:41: So it is a tradition in a lot of churches and a lot of families to maintain a Sabbath on Sunday.
13:51: I am a Lord's Day advocate, meaning I believe that Sunday is the Lord's day.
13:55: I believe it's the day we're supposed to gather for worship.
13:57: And I do believe it's supposed to be dedicated to the Lord.
14:00: And some people say, what's the difference between that and the Sabbatarian? Well, very little.
14:04: My difference in distinction is I believe the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ, that Christ is my rest and that everything the old covenant Sabbath pointed to is fulfilled in Christ.
14:16: And that's why I don't have to debate whether or not.
14:19: Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday, because I don't believe I'm maintaining a Sabbath.
14:22: I believe I'm maintaining the Lord's Day, which is obviously on Sunday.
14:25: So I don't have to go through the whole argument of whether or not it's the Sabbath.
14:29: But it is a small position, small positional difference.
14:33: There's not much practical difference.
14:36: So I didn't mean to spend all that time on the Sabbath.
14:38: The reason why I'm pointing that out is because this is in the book.
14:41: And that's one of a thousand things in the book that are only really relevant to Christians.
14:47: You're not going to find people at the bar who care whether or not they're keeping the Sabbath.
14:53: You're not going to find people in the bar who care whether or not they're having kosher dietary restrictions.
15:00: But as a believer, you might find somebody who tells you, maybe somebody from the Seventh-day Adventist, that you are not living according to God's law because you eat pork.
15:12: Or you're not living according to God's law because you worship on Sunday.
15:17: Seventh-day Adventists worship on Saturday because they believe they're keeping the Old Covenant Sabbath.
15:24: So are those ethical issues? Absolutely they are.
15:28: If a person believes that this is right, what's the basis of ethics? What is right and what is wrong? We talked about the very first class, right? So I think I hope the book was helpful.
15:41: I hope it was.
15:42: And again, I hope it goes beyond this class.
15:46: I hope you can use it for other things.
15:48: All right.
15:48: So moving on from that, did anybody else take anything away from the book that you want to mention? I just I know we haven't talked about it much and I wanted to address it tonight.
15:57: Anybody else have anything in the book that they felt was a little complicated? Maybe you have a question, Mark, like Ms.
16:03: Daisy had.
16:05: I think I expressed that I stick to Mormon Calvinism a lot.
16:18: I think that was actually the last time I read the book.
16:22: I tell you what, if I don't agree with you, I'm not finishing your book.
16:29: Totally two incidences that coincided.
16:34: Correlation does not equal causation, right, brother? Yeah.
16:36: No, I'm with you, though.
16:38: You know, it's funny because brother Mike Collier and I have recently been talking about the third use of law.
16:43: And we both would agree that the law has a purpose in guiding and providing a moral compass.
16:48: And I even talked about that this morning in Set Free, that even though we're not saved by the law, the law gives us a picture of the moral character of God.
16:55: And so I think that would be what some might call the third use of the law, the way that it describes God's intention for us.
17:04: You know, the intention is that we not sin.
17:05: The intention is that we live a holy life, you know, and without holiness, we will not see God.
17:10: The Hebrew says that, you know, of course.
17:11: So there are there are realities of that.
17:14: So, again, I don't agree with everything Schreiner says.
17:17: And it's good if we are Bereans and that if you're unfamiliar, that comes from the book of Acts where the apostle Paul went to Berea and the Bereans were considered more noble than those at Thessalonica because they searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true.
17:35: And if the Bereans are noble to compare Paul with scripture, then we're even more so required to compare everything we read to scripture.
17:47: I don't ask you to take anything I say on face value.
17:50: I don't want to be your answer.
17:53: The scripture should be your answer.
17:55: I hope I'm a helpful guide.
17:58: But the word of God is the is the final arbiter for me and everyone else.
18:04: So, yeah, I'm glad you disagreed.
18:06: I mean, again, because it's he's not perfect, of course.
18:08: And and like I said, I think you and I would agree on that.
18:12: All right.
18:12: So that's that the book.
18:15: Anybody else have anything else? All right, well, let's move on to our questions.
18:19: This is the big stuff.
18:21: I know you guys have been so excited.
18:22: I've been so excited.
18:25: No, I really am.
18:26: I get excited.
18:27: I tell you, I look forward to this class.
18:29: There's there's there's my main thing I look forward to every week is Sunday morning worship.
18:34: And then I look forward to several other things, but particularly my time that I get to spend with you all.
18:42: I like seeing the church on Wednesday night.
18:44: I love going to set free on Thursday morning.
18:46: But this is a very it's a highlight of my week.
18:48: So I'm thankful that you guys are here, even though every class we do seem to lose people every week.
18:53: And we're down to it just gets lower because, you know, as we as we go deeper.
19:00: All right, I'm going to give you the questions.
19:03: And last time I I only got to one question and I did it and I was so I felt so bad.
19:10: So this time I'm going to make sure to at least I'm going to read you the questions.
19:17: I'm going to provide you what I think is a good response.
19:22: And then I'm going to let you opine as you would like.
19:25: And then we're going to move on.
19:27: We're not going to get totally drenched in any one of these because there again, it's it's it's nine different questions were submitted.
19:36: The last two go together, though.
19:38: So it's really more like eight because we can combine the last two.
19:42: And I did I rewrote them.
19:44: Some of you wrote me a very long but it was only really one question.
19:48: So I didn't like I'll give you yours, for example, Miss Nancy, you shared with me a testimony that went with the question.
19:54: I've only got the question here.
19:56: We can we can address some of that if you want to.
19:58: But I'm only putting the question.
20:00: All right.
20:00: So the first question, is it wrong for a believer to get a tattoo? That's first question.
20:07: That was a good question.
20:08: And so we'll start with that when you go back.
20:10: Number two, can a Christian support the legalization of marijuana for medical use? Number three, don't yet.
20:20: These are good.
20:21: These are real questions, right? These are this is what we wanted.
20:24: This is ethics.
20:25: This is intro.
20:27: Number three, is it disrespectful or does it go against God word when someone prays with their hat on? I think I think it said a man prays with his hat on.
20:36: That's a specific question.
20:37: I think that's a good question.
20:38: That's a it's a simple question in the sense that it's certainly it's not as profound in the sense of difficulty as something like abortion.
20:46: But it's a question that really gets to the heart of am I doing right or wrong? And that's what ethics is.
20:51: So it's a good question.
20:53: Number four, is it OK for a Christian to listen to secular music? Number five, if God created man for woman and vice versa, how can singleness be a Christian virtue? Now, that's more of a theological question because it deals with a specific statement in Paul's writings to the Corinthians.
21:12: But it's still it's an ethical question.
21:15: Number six, how do parents love their children who are committing sexual sins and not condone the sin? That's great.
21:26: Tremendous, great question.
21:28: Number seven, as a Christian parent, how do we decide between public school versus homeschooling? Tremendously difficult for for a lot of folks.
21:40: Now here, eight, nine, I think these two go together and I'll explain why when we get there.
21:44: Number eight, how should Christians respond to the issue of boys and girls bathrooms in school? That's a social issue that's currently hot and in the news.
21:54: And number nine, how should parents respond to school's teaching disagreeable content, which is almost the sort of the same thing? And that's why I say I think those two kind of go together.
22:03: How do you respond if you do have your children in school and there are things that are happening or teachings that are happening that you would find to be against scripture? All right, so nine questions that we got, we're limited on time.
22:17: So we're going to go through these one at a time and give you how I would answer it as an as as again, only as a as an example.
22:24: But I want to hear your thoughts.
22:26: Let's go back to number one.
22:29: Is it wrong to get a tattoo as a believer? Well, the scriptures that I pulled out in regard to this number one is the one that is almost always used, and that's Leviticus 19, 28.
22:43: So if you look that up very quickly, I'll have somebody read it for us.
22:47: We'll play Bible drills, actually have four scriptures, so when we Travis, you look up Leviticus 19, 28, Alan, you look up Romans 14, 23, Jennifer, First Corinthians 6, 19 and 20 and Brother Mark, First Peter 3, 3 and 4, please.
23:13: First Peter 3, 3 and 4.
23:16: And I hope to show why I chose these passages.
23:21: Number one, Leviticus 19, 28.
23:23: Read it for me, Travis.
23:24: You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourself.
23:30: So I am the Lord.
23:31: OK.
23:32: All right.
23:33: So right there we have a what translation are you using? The ESV.
23:38: OK.
23:39: All right.
23:39: So often this particular passage is cited because it does reference a tattoo and it seems to indicate that this is a violation of God's law.
23:54: Thou shalt not.
23:56: All right.
23:57: And it includes a particular type of incision.
24:04: It says, do not make cuts on your body, which are for the dead.
24:10: So right then we know that we're dealing with a specific type of cut in the first half of the statement.
24:17: Do not make a cut on your body for the dead.
24:19: What is that? What is that referencing? It's referencing an occult practice.
24:25: The occult practice of cutting yourself on behalf of the dead was something that was a pagan activity.
24:34: It was practiced by those who were outside of the camp of Israel.
24:37: Israel was called to be what? Set apart.
24:41: They're called to be a peculiar people.
24:44: Not peculiar in the sense of you're just weird, but peculiar as in you are set apart.
24:51: So you're not to be like the people that are around you.
24:54: And so there is the prohibition of cutting yourself for the dead.
24:58: But it goes on to say neither to get a tattoo.
25:01: And so a lot of people have used that particular passage.
25:07: And have come to the conclusion that it is always a sin to get a tattoo.
25:14: Is there anyone who has a different translation than that that you can think of that it says anything different? Because that's often a very good first step when you're trying to understand something is to.
25:26: I know in a different version.
25:32: Yeah.
25:33: And that's the part I was going to bring up is I believe that the tattooing and the cutting of the self are both referencing occult practices.
25:44: That's the first thing that I think that both of them is specifically in reference to an occult practice.
25:50: But I want to add another thought.
25:52: Where are we finding this law? In Leviticus.
25:58: Have we not already made the point that there are certain laws that are specifically ceremonial in the sense that we would not expect them to be continued in the new covenant? So we have to deal with that.
26:13: Is this moral or is this a law that is not intended to transcend the covenant? Personally, I do not think that it is a moral law unless you are getting a tattoo for the purpose of promoting an occultish activity.
26:33: So, for instance, if you got a tattoo with, I can't think of a false god right off the top of my head, the one that, well, Baal, but you could, but I'm talking about like a modern like false god.
26:45: Like if you got a Hindu god, yeah, if you got Buddha put on you, I think that would be an immediate issue.
26:58: So, gang tattoos, that's a good point.
27:02: I didn't think about that, Travis.
27:04: What? But that's not the question, though.
27:05: And I appreciate what you're saying, Daisy.
27:07: I'm not saying.
27:11: What? No, no, no.
27:13: What you said, you asked a good question, though.
27:16: But we're not addressing what happened before we got saved, because if you come to, you could come to Jesus top to bottom, painted everywhere.
27:23: It ain't gonna matter because Jesus washes you clean.
27:26: That's whatever you did before Christ.
27:28: Everything is covered in the in the blood of Christ.
27:31: So so the question of this is not what about before? The question, this is now, right? So, brother, you were going to say, Mark, you wanted to add.
27:40: I'll say, oh, yeah.
27:42: How are you? OK, well, praise the Lord.
27:44: We start preaching up in here.
27:46: OK, so let I think that we can easily say that Leviticus is part of the old covenant, which has been made obsolete.
27:58: That's number one.
27:59: But number two, even if we were to apply it, it would only apply to those tattoos which were specifically for a cultish reasons.
28:09: And I think anyone I think anyone would agree that if you get a tattoo of Buddha or whatever else, a 666 or a swastika or any of those things, that that would be that would be an ungodly thing to do because you're promoting something on your body that is ungodly.
28:27: All right.
28:28: So that's number one.
28:29: Romans 14, 23.
28:31: Brother, would you read that? Yes, but whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not faith.
28:40: I love that passage.
28:42: Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
28:46: So my if somebody came to me and said, Pastor, is it wrong for me to get get a tattoo? I would ask them, you tell me, because if you can't do it in faith, you shouldn't do it.
28:57: If you don't if you're not confident to do it, don't do it.
29:02: So that's so that's so that's why I reference Romans 14, 1st Corinthians six.
29:07: I keep saying that I'm sorry, Mrs.
29:10: Foskey.
29:14: 19 and wait a minute.
29:16: 1st Corinthians 6, 1920.
29:19: OK, I only reference this passage because this is the New Testament passage.
29:33: It's most most commonly cited by people who would say tattoos are wrong because they would say, see, it's not your body.
29:39: It's God's body.
29:42: But please don't.
29:47: It is.
29:48: But I think, though, and we're going to see this in the first Peter passage.
29:52: Go and read the first Peter passage, brother.
29:55: Don't do not let your.
30:13: Yeah, and it's a good thing to read your daughter.
30:15: It's a good thing to read yourself, too.
30:16: I mean, because.
30:21: Johnny's like, brother, I'm a beautiful man.
30:24: I don't have to adorn myself at all.
30:28: Just look at this.
30:32: That's right.
30:34: I think that I think that we have to consider both of those passages, the passage regarding the body belonging to the Lord and the adornment being external because both of them relate to.
30:47: And this is going to come up in the first four questions, just so you know.
30:51: Motivation.
30:52: What is our motivation? Is our motivation to promote ourself? Is our motivation to be seen and glorified and glamorized by what we look like? I do think that these can be ungodly motivations.
31:09: So I think that we have to ask ourselves if we are motivated correctly.
31:14: I think the tattoo is secondary to the motivation.
31:19: What's making us want to do it? Brother, we talked about this a little bit.
31:22: And you said you're an artist.
31:24: You love art.
31:24: Those things, those are good things.
31:27: So here's my two questions that I would ask somebody as an ethical question.
31:34: I don't, let me finish.
31:35: I don't personally believe that a tattoo by itself is wrong.
31:39: But I do think that two questions can help me understand a person's heart.
31:44: Number one, is this an intentional act of rebellion? So for instance, a teenager, I want to get a tattoo because daddy doesn't want me to.
31:53: I would say that's wrong.
31:55: I want to get a tattoo that's anti-whatever.
32:00: Or, you know, I think that rebellion as a spiritual idea and a heart would be a wrong motivation.
32:08: And number two, does it glorify sin? Is the tattoo itself glorifying sin? Which we know some do.
32:15: I mean, I've seen guys with naked women tattooed on them and everything.
32:17: So, you know, those would be the questions that would go deeper than just, is, what? I'm going to assume that was before Christ.
32:29: I wish it was.
32:31: Okay, all right.
32:33: I'm going to stop assuming.
32:36: I was not following Christ at the time.
32:39: I was barely saved.
32:41: That's a...
32:46: Well, we used to, in our men's group, we had a group called dads and dudes.
32:51: And every once in a while, we'd talk about something that we were battling with, struggling with, and we would say, you know what? We're barely saved.
32:56: And it's just, it was a joke.
32:58: But it was, you know, the reality is, you know, a lot of times we are struggling.
33:02: But again, does anyone in here, and I'm not looking to start an argument or a fight.
33:07: Is there anyone in here who would take the position that tattoos are always wrong? Well, no, not obviously not.
33:16: There might be somebody.
33:17: I'm not looking to call anybody out.
33:18: I gave my position.
33:19: I'm not going to, I'm not going to argue with you.
33:21: I just, I know that if I were to go tonight to an independent Baptist church.
33:28: Yeah, if I stood up in an independent Baptist church and said, it's not a sin to have a tattoo, I'd be chased out of there with watermelons and apples and eggs.
33:40: Yeah, I wouldn't have made it inside.
33:43: I walk in with an ESV and I get, you know.
33:46: Again, I love my, my, my Indy Fundy brethren.
33:49: That's what I call them.
33:51: Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Indy Fundys.
33:53: Yeah.
33:54: Well, you know, it's fundamental, right? Somewhat fun, not enough mental.
33:59: A lot of damn though.
34:02: It's fun, damn mental.
34:03: All right, that's a, that's a bad joke.
34:09: No, I don't think so.
34:12: All right, let's move on to the next question.
34:15: But keep in mind what I said a minute ago.
34:17: Motivation is key, right? Motivation will always be part of how we understand our ethic.
34:23: If we're motivated by a sinful desire, motivated with pride, those things, these are all going to play a part, especially in these first several questions.
34:30: Number two, can a Christian support the legalization of marijuana for medical use? Um, the two passages I wrote down are Romans 13, 1 and 2.
34:39: Romans 13 specifically deals with obeying governmental authorities.
34:43: And the only reason why I referenced that particular passage is because I would say if, if, if the question, and it's not, but if the, is the, if the question was, should I be able to smoke marijuana to feel better even if it's illegal? I would say no.
35:00: I would say we do have a responsibility to obey as much as possible, the government, as long as they're not forcing us to deny Christ.
35:08: So I would say that's an immediate, because a lot of people, they're looking for, and I know the person who asked this question isn't, but a lot of people are looking for some kind of an out.
35:18: They're looking for some kind of a justification.
35:21: And I know the person who asked it isn't, but I, but I just put that in.
35:24: It is yours.
35:27: I, I, I, I'm sorry if I didn't word it correctly.
35:29: Because yours dealt specifically with opioid addiction versus, explain what you were trying to say.
35:34: The, the, the issue that actually my wife and I talk about quite a bit is, you know, we deal with the opioid epidemic is insane.
35:45: And so we, we, for someone to take a non-addictive thing like, because they have ways to take up THC and they have ways to just get the positive effects.
36:01: And then, yeah, CBD oil came up in this as well with Mark and I the other day, because CBD oil doesn't have any intoxicating effects.
36:10: So, so that even changed anything.
36:13: Opiates are extremely addictive.
36:15: And a lot of people have come to set free, strung out on heroin because they got in a car accident 25 years ago and got prescribed Oxys or Roxys or whatever they're called.
36:27: Yeah.
36:28: And, and it just continued on to where they up the price of pills and now they're shooting heroin and dying in particular cars.
36:36: Yeah.
36:37: So.
36:38: Well, who was it? Rush Limbaugh was addicted to opiates.
36:42: Was he? Several years ago.
36:44: I, I, again, I believe, am I correct? People, he came out.
36:47: He, he had, you know, and he wanted to get help and, but he explained it started out with, I think, a back problem or something.
36:55: Yeah, but, but yeah, that's, and they often do, you know, people, but, but, but that's an example, right? Somebody who started out medicine and it became an addiction.
37:09: All right.
37:09: So the question then, from your perspective is, would it be better to do that? I, I, I don't know enough to answer that from the question of, from, from the medical side.
37:20: I mean, Faith would know more than I would as, as a nurse, as, as, as far as the medical side.
37:25: And, and you know more about the dealing with addiction.
37:28: So the way I responded was simply with two questions, and I base this on Ephesians 5.18.
37:35: Ephesians 5.18, do not be drunk on wine, which is debauchery.
37:38: So my two questions is, one, is it functionally, is it functionally different from other pain management medication? Meaning, if, if someone asked me, Pastor, would you support medical marijuana? My first question would be, is it functionally different than others? And if you're saying it's not addictive and it's safer, then I think that it would be okay because it's, it's a medicine.
38:01: But the second question I would ask, is this someone's excuse for, for chasing a high? And so that's where I think the danger lies is, is this, go ahead, Daisy.
38:20: Okay.
38:22: By the way, this is the greatest class.
38:23: We're learning so much.
38:25: This is so cool.
38:29: And it helps the dog.
38:31: It's an anti-inflammatory.
38:33: Okay.
38:33: And thunder phobia.
38:35: So it just takes her down a notch.
38:37: So the CBD, when they...
38:41: No, it's a treat, dog treat.
38:43: No, no, I'm saying the CBD, it's a, it's a non-psychotic...
38:47: I forgot how they work.
38:48: It has the psychiatric effects that the actual THC has in it.
38:54: Yes, but I think it's a safer alternative than heroin.
38:58: Or pain pills.
38:59: Yes, it's a lesser of the two evils.
39:02: Now on the thing with the med, if it's a medical use, they've used in the proper manner as far as I've seen what CBD oil and THC, even the THC oil does it to kids who have epilepsy and things like that, who have seizures and can't have, can't control their seizures.
39:19: And they take the CBD oil and it calms them down and it helps with their seizure.
39:24: I think used in that proper manner.
39:26: Yeah.
39:27: Well, let me, let me ask this.
39:28: Does anyone in here have any issue with people taking medicine? It's abusing it, right? Certain times.
39:38: That's not what I, I understand what you're saying.
39:40: What my point, my initial instinct, my initial question is to ask this.
39:44: Do we all agree that medicine can be good? So I think the question for the medical marijuana is it legitimately being used as a medicine? And that's, I think that answers the ethical dilemma.
39:56: The question though is what does that look like and how is it applied legally? Because we do know in places like Colorado and California and other places where medical marijuana has been made legal that it becomes an excuse for chasing the high, right? People use, people get false scripts and use them for, again, I'm not disagreeing with that.
40:18: I think if I had a child that had seizures and this was an answer to me, it would be not even a question.
40:27: It would be, of course.
40:29: Because it's certainly, if it's a medicine, it's a useful thing.
40:33: But I think what keeps a lot of people from wanting to support it is the fear of the, what has happened in places.
40:43: I'm not saying that they're right.
40:44: I'm saying that's, huh? Go ahead.
40:48: Yeah.
40:50: I'm sorry, Carrie, you had your hand up.
40:52: Well, it is an interesting topic because my sister and I discuss this quite often for my mom who is prescribed OxyContin because she is in chronic pain and she has chronic illnesses.
41:05: Yeah.
41:05: And nothing is more sadder because they can't, they're not going to prescribe her anymore.
41:09: Yeah.
41:10: Because she's at that level.
41:11: So it's ruined her mind.
41:14: You know, she hurts enough so when she's been trying herself even to try to get weaned off of it or take less a day, guess what happens to her? It's the most debilitating, saddest thing.
41:28: And my sister actually brought that question to me just like three weeks ago of what I thought.
41:34: And I said, at this time I cannot answer because I don't know.
41:38: But I'm not saying it's okay because I don't know.
41:42: But it is, you see your own family members besides just people on the street or, you know, certain situations struggle with that.
41:50: Yeah.
41:50: And as bad as my mom hurts and as much as she cries, we've talked about it quite often.
41:56: It's interesting that Daisy can get it for her dog, but she can't get it for your mom.
42:02: If Eric has been thinking about discussing it with my mom.
42:06: So it is possible to get at this point legally? CBD? Yeah.
42:10: Well, you can get a sort of a kicker out of it though, isn't it? Again, I don't know.
42:16: That's why I said I'm probably the wrong person to be answering.
42:18: I'm looking at this strictly, strictly.
42:21: She got a, she.
42:22: I can't be going to the doctor for my mom.
42:25: Well, of course.
42:26: Yeah.
42:26: Because she's, because she's on another medication that you would want to replace, right? Yeah.
42:31: I was going to make your next video.
42:33: You know how you've been watching the Facebook videos and stuff.
42:35: I'll be learning all about CBD oil.
42:39: But even with the CBD, there's still like medical use for medical use.
42:44: There's benefits for it.
42:46: To me, I believe it is a safer alternative than you.
42:52: Whatever.
42:53: There are actual benefits.
42:54: I mean, I was a chronic weed smoker.
42:58: So I've done a lot of research on the things that.
43:03: Yeah.
43:03: So you know more about what you did.
43:05: Okay.
43:05: Yeah.
43:06: I believe CBD oil is a safer alternative as far as usage for it.
43:15: Okay.
43:16: Charlie, you had your hand up.
43:17: Now I'll go to you, Daisy.
43:24: Individually, individuals, you cannot control how it affects that person.
43:29: It'll affect each person differently.
43:33: But that's true with any medicine, isn't it? Yes.
43:35: So, yeah.
43:41: I mean, honestly, to be honest with you, crack cocaine is safer than opiates.
43:45: You know what I mean? But in an aspect, when you're dealing with an addict, like I can't personally.
43:52: I couldn't tell you.
43:54: I'd rather sit there and suffer like I did last for two weeks laying in bed, like I was going to die because going through that suffering made me not want to ever go through it.
44:11: And that's why I originally, I wanted to bring up so long after that.
44:15: But what the Lord did to me on June 7th is what works for me.
44:27: So, I mean, I don't know.
44:27: That's tough.
44:32: I mean, the Lord draws me and I think the Lord draws all of this.
44:39: So, I keep it that simple in my head.
44:41: I think, okay, because I hurt.
44:43: My body hurts.
44:44: I deal with pain.
44:49: I might take an ibuprofen.
44:51: But I'd be afraid.
44:53: Honestly, I'd be able to put something in my body, even if it's marijuana or something else, to like maybe help me.
45:02: I have to learn to endure with this.
45:09: Daisy, you had something you wanted to say? I cannot take a painkiller.
45:26: I've had surgeries without painkillers.
45:28: Ow.
45:29: So, for me.
45:30: I mean, ow.
45:31: That sounds bad.
45:32: Pardon? I said ow.
45:35: Yeah.
45:36: Well, I don't think that I would take the CBD for me because I think that because I have addictions a thousand years ago, I still have an addictive personality.
46:01: I smoke.
46:03: You know, I wouldn't be afraid of the addiction of it feeling good.
46:08: I just want you to know the Independent Baptists are rolling over tonight.
46:12: I said the Independent Baptists are rolling over tonight.
46:16: We got tattoos and smoking.
46:18: Now we're talking about marijuana.
46:19: We are dying here.
46:20: The man.
46:24: I tell you what.
46:29: I love you, Daisy.
46:30: I really do.
46:31: Kelsey, you want to add something? See, that leads to another conversation.
46:49: A broader conversation about the ethics of medicine use.
46:53: Because like Brother Mark, what he's really asking is if this is better than opiate, shouldn't it be legal? And that is, again, that's a difficult question.
47:04: Not for us, but for those who have to apply the law.
47:08: The legal enforcers, the law enforcement and government.
47:13: And they have to apply the law.
47:15: And, you know, of course, there are those on one side who would say marijuana always bad.
47:20: Or the other side that would say it's always good, you know.
47:22: And there's somewhere they have to find a consensus.
47:24: And so when we, like I said, I am not an expert on medicine.
47:30: And I'm not a mental health expert.
47:32: So I want to be careful what I'm about to say.
47:34: When it comes to the issue of mental health, I do think that in a lot of ways, we try to treat spiritual problems with medical solutions.
47:46: And as a result, we find people who are abusing the medicine.
47:52: I want to give you a testimony of a story of my own life.
47:54: My cousin, who is now dead, he was his whole life, he was a hyper child.
48:02: And so his parents gave him medicine for his hyperactivity.
48:06: This was back in the late 80s.
48:10: One time I teach karate.
48:12: He was at the karate school with me and having a great day.
48:14: We were really enjoying the day.
48:16: And I took him home because I was going to take him to the movies.
48:20: I was going to reward him for helping me.
48:21: We had built some shelves or something.
48:24: And Jennifer remembers this story.
48:26: Because we took him home to see his mom before we went to the movies, because he was going to spend the night with us.
48:30: He had to get his clothes and all.
48:31: And she goes, oh, he has to take his medicine.
48:33: And he had been happy and jovial all day.
48:36: And then we got into the car.
48:39: And between the time that he got in the car and we got to the end of his road, he was in a state of absolute, almost catatonic.
48:48: Like his whole attitude had become, and no longer was he joyful or happy.
48:55: Whatever she gave him so affected him mentally.
48:59: But he wasn't even the same person.
49:04: And he did grow up to become an addict.
49:07: And he committed suicide.
49:09: Now, I'm not blaming his parents.
49:11: And I hope that that's not the situation that you guys are drawing from that.
49:15: My point is, I think it is scary and dangerous the way that we have become so dependent upon medicine to even think right, or to have our children act right.
49:27: So I do think there's a larger ethical implication that we would have to consider.
49:31: That is, are we entrusting our sanity to pharmacological answers, rather to what are ultimately spiritual problems? So I mean, before I came to Set Free, I was being a man of the precedent.
50:04: I came to faith and started relying on God, relying on Jesus Christ, and leaning on him in those times of need where I was feeling depressed, or I was feeling my mood shifts or whatever.
50:16: And now it was rough when I first got off my medicine.
50:19: It was.
50:20: But I find it more gratifying leaning on God than leaning on the medicine that helped me.
50:31: It's amazing how God often uses those very difficult times to bring.
50:35: He is constant.
50:37: Some people.
50:53: Our joy is in our fellowship.
51:00: I will say there's a great blessing in what you guys have at Set Free.
51:04: I know you're not there.
51:05: But I mean, what the guys have in that they do have a constant accountability.
51:11: We do have to move on from this question, though.
51:13: I'm sorry.
51:14: I said we weren't going to do this.
51:16: We're going to move and we're not going to take our break right at 730.
51:20: We're going to go a little bit past because I want to get to a few more of these.
51:23: But again, motivation is key, right? If somebody wants to get marijuana to get high, I think that's the wrong motivation.
51:29: I think that violates Ephesians 518.
51:31: Even though you're not getting drunk, you are becoming intoxicated.
51:35: And so I think that's the simplest basic answer we could give.
51:40: Number three, I'm going to kind of go through this one quick, not because it's not important, but I think it's a simple answer.
51:44: Is it disrespectful to go against or go against God's word when somebody prays with their hat on? The passage that I would point to, the only one I could think of was 1 Corinthians 11, 4, which says that it's shameful for a man to cover his head while he prays.
52:01: Here's the things I consider from that.
52:03: Number one, culture is never the determiner of truth, but culture does influence behavior.
52:13: If the culture dictates a behavior is disrespectful, it's probably best to avoid it.
52:20: And here's the reason.
52:22: If we are doing what we're doing intentionally to disrespect, then our motivation is wrong.
52:32: I'll give you an example.
52:33: My church is made up of a multi-generational group.
52:36: We have people in their 80s and we have people in their months of life.
52:42: So we literally have a very wide divergence of ages.
52:47: I would not wear a hat in the building because of the elderly people in the church who grew up at a time where that was disrespectful.
52:58: But it has nothing to do with sin, but it has everything to do with respect.
53:02: So I do think that sometimes we can consider an ethical question not as a sin or not sin, but as a question of, is this something that is intentionally going to offend someone unnecessarily? Does that help, Travis? Maybe if you realize that it's probably being disrespectful, would you still do it anyway? I think it could.
53:33: I know when I got upset because at Amelia Baptist, in a lot of Baptist churches, they don't allow you to wear hats in the sanctuary.
53:53: And some of them got offended.
53:55: I'm like, when you go to my house, you go by the way that we go.
54:00: When we go to somebody else's house, you do what they do.
54:03: It's just what it is.
54:04: And I would, I'll add another thought, because I think more specific to our church would be the issue of shorts, right? Because like for me, I've never worn shorts at a worship service ever.
54:17: Just because I grew up, you know, wear shorts at church.
54:19: But one of our elders doesn't own a pair of pants.
54:24: Brother Mike Collier literally only has shorts.
54:28: And the first time he preached here, no, I asked him to buy a pair of pants.
54:36: And you know what he did? He bought a pair of pants.
54:40: And he preached in pants for my request.
54:46: And he didn't have an issue with it at all.
54:48: Now he owns a few pair of pants.
54:51: And the day he was ordained, he wore a tie.
54:56: This is a man who I didn't know how to, didn't know if he knew how to tie a tie.
55:00: But he did that because, and I didn't ask him to do that.
55:04: He did that because he knew I would think that it was a nice gesture toward our older people who see that as a different time.
55:13: That when you dressed, this was how you dressed.
55:16: Does it matter in the scheme of sin and not sin? No, but motivation, again, are we motivated to rebel? Or are we motivated to encourage our brother? Like I said, Brother Mike wears shorts most of the time.
55:29: Nobody cares.
55:30: Even serves communion in shorts.
55:32: Nobody really cares.
55:33: But 20 years ago, people would have cared a lot more than they do today.
55:38: Were they wrong? Maybe.
55:40: But are we not to, in some ways, give up our liberty for our brothers who may not have the same liberty as we do? I mean, I think that's a reality we have to consider.
55:51: So again, is it cultural? Yes.
55:54: Because the 1 Corinthians 11, 4, that's referring to a specific culture where men did not cover their heads and women did.
56:04: And if a man covered his head, he was essentially dressing like a woman.
56:08: And if a woman uncovered her head, she was essentially taking off the symbol of authority and expressing herself like a man.
56:14: And I preached that text about two years ago.
56:17: And I used it as a way of saying a man should dress like a man.
56:22: And a woman should.
56:23: The application to today is that we ought not be confused when we walk in the church.
56:29: Who are the men and who are the ladies? Because that was the issue culturally that was happening in Corinth.
56:35: The women were expressing themselves as the men.
56:37: And the men were essentially expressing themselves in a subversive role.
56:42: Or a subjective role.
56:45: Men should look like men.
56:46: Doesn't mean you have to have a beard or be as handsome as me.
56:50: But the idea of masculinity.
56:56: See, people say, are you a feminist? I'm a masculinist.
56:59: People never hear that.
57:01: I think that there's good in being masculine.
57:03: And I think there's good in being feminine.
57:05: But I do think there should be a distinction.
57:08: And I think the Bible explains that distinction.
57:11: Men and women are different.
57:13: They were both equal in the eyes of Christ.
57:15: But there's differences.
57:17: Now I've gone off the subject.
57:18: But you understand, that's what 1 Corinthians 11 is about.
57:21: Not so much whether or not you wear a hat.
57:23: But how you express yourself in worship.
57:25: Are you maintaining the gender roles appropriately? Number four.
57:30: Is it okay for a Christian to listen to secular music? Somebody read Philippians 4.8.
57:43: Thank you, brother.
57:44: You didn't have to read it.
57:45: You got it written on your heart.
57:46: Praise the Lord.
57:47: Okay, so why did I pick that passage? Well, if somebody asked me, is it okay for a Christian to listen to secular music? My immediate response is not all secular music is the same.
58:05: Beethoven is different than Tupac.
58:16: This is the question I wrote in my notes.
58:20: Does all art have to have a cross for it to be beautiful? So my question is this.
58:34: Does the music glorify sin? If the music glorifies sin, I don't think that we should enjoy it.
58:40: Because we should not enjoy that for which Christ died.
58:43: Christ died for sin.
58:45: However, I think I can enjoy Beethoven.
58:47: I think I can even enjoy some modern music.
58:52: Some of it may be borders, and I should probably not listen to it.
58:56: But there are times where I think we become guilty of forgetting that there are things that don't mention Christ, but still exalt Christ.
59:09: You say, what are you talking about? When I see an artist make a painting that's beautiful, I can say that that art glorifies Christ because that person demonstrated the image of God in making that.
59:26: Even if they're an unbeliever, they're demonstrating the image of God within them to the spite of themselves because they're doing something that glorifies God even in spite of their unbelief.
59:38: I remember R.C.
59:39: Sproul made that point very clearly.
59:41: He said when the atheist does something beautiful, he's glorifying God in spite of himself.
59:49: I thought that was a very profound thought.
59:51: So when it comes to music, I do think that secular music can be okay.
59:57: But the question that went with this, I think, was a good question.
01:00:00: And that was, shouldn't we focus on...
01:00:03: I'm not saying it properly.
01:00:05: I don't have it up here.
01:00:05: But basically, it was something to the effect of, shouldn't we focus on the things that would point us to Christ and not focus on the other things? And I do think that there's some truth to that.
01:00:15: As believers, I think that our steady diet should be things that point us to Christ.
01:00:23: But if you are a person who listens to secular music, I don't think that's a sin.
01:00:28: Again, I think it's the music itself.
01:00:31: Anybody want to add anything for time? I'm going to ask you to be brief.
01:00:36: I'll get into theological stuff with music.
01:00:39: Sure.
01:00:39: Some of the secular music is...
01:00:41: Better than some of the Christian music.
01:00:44: Yeah.
01:00:44: Light 96.9 is better than K-Love? Yeah, I listen to secular music.
01:00:51: I don't listen to it all the time.
01:00:54: And a lot of the stuff I listened to before, I'll hear one or two songs, and I can already feel my attitude changing.
01:01:01: I'm like, I better stop.
01:01:03: But I love the music so much, it's one of the guilty pleasures that I'm sure is sin.
01:01:08: I'll go back to the tattoo question.
01:01:12: Does it glorify sin, what you're listening to? Yeah, I think that.
01:01:15: And that's, again, motivation is key, right? There's a difference of listening to it and allowing it to become your identity, because our identity is in Christ.
01:01:27: Oh, sure.
01:01:28: Yeah, absolutely.
01:01:30: What you put in doesn't influence your heart.
01:01:33: Right, but you allow it to come in.
01:01:35: If it penetrates your heart to bring it forth into an action, then who do you identify with? With Christ? Yeah.
01:01:49: Well, it's just like I said, I mean, there's a lot of music out there that ain't worth listening to at all anyway, because it's all garbage.
01:01:55: It's either glorifying sex or adultery or some other thing.
01:02:02: So yeah, I think that it is a judgment call.
01:02:05: And again, motivation is key, right? I keep saying that.
01:02:08: What are we motivated by? Do we glorify God? And again, what was the verse we used? The Philippians 4 verse.
01:02:15: It says to think on the things that are noble, that are good, that are beautiful, that are these things.
01:02:21: So that's what should capitalize the majority of our mental time.
01:02:27: I'm going to do the next couple ones kind of quick, because I do at least want to address them.
01:02:31: I'm sorry, but time has run away.
01:02:35: If God created man for woman and vice versa, how can singleness be a virtue? Brother, I'm going to mention, because you asked this one.
01:02:41: We talked about this at the meal the other day, but I want to answer it here.
01:02:44: First Corinthians is the only place that I know of that references singleness specifically as a virtue.
01:02:50: First Corinthians chapter seven.
01:02:51: And Paul is dealing with a very specific contextual issue.
01:02:55: And that is the issue that...
01:02:56: Did I miss one? No, I just preached it on Tuesday.
01:02:59: Oh, okay.
01:03:00: So would you agree with me that the context is why Paul is addressing that particular thing? You have an issue where the cultural context is many of these people are ex-slaves.
01:03:10: Some of them have been married several times.
01:03:12: And then you also have the historical context.
01:03:14: And that is that they're facing persecution.
01:03:16: And it's a situation where marriage isn't always the best thing.
01:03:19: And so I do think that there is a cultural and social context which specifically addresses what Paul is saying.
01:03:25: But when I go back to Genesis two, it does say for the majority of people, it's not good to be alone.
01:03:31: If you have the capacity to be single, that's a blessing from God.
01:03:38: I don't.
01:03:39: I was not made to be single.
01:03:44: You know, I couldn't do it.
01:03:47: But if God has gifted you to that, and you don't have a desire to be in a relationship, and you have a desire to serve Christ only, praise the Lord if you can do that.
01:03:57: And it is a gift.
01:03:59: But it is not a gift that everyone has.
01:04:02: Here's the thing, like real quick.
01:04:05: You get saved and God calls you to the mission.
01:04:13: Knowing what God's called you to do, that's a whole nother.
01:04:17: So I think what he's saying also as far as application is that if you're called to singleness, walking that because you're free in Christ, and you're not going to be, you know, have all these other responsibilities that aren't even part of your call.
01:04:30: Yeah, and I'm sure there are people who have gotten married who shouldn't, who in a sense, when I say shouldn't have God's sovereign over all things, who would have been gifted to singleness had they remained single.
01:04:44: But yeah, all right.
01:04:47: Again, for time, I want to move on.
01:04:48: How do parents love their children, committing sexual sins and not condone it? My answer to this is not, this is not a simple question.
01:05:02: But I do want to provide an answer that I think is helpful.
01:05:07: And here's the helpful answer.
01:05:10: The difference relies on whether they identify themselves as believers or not.
01:05:22: If you want to write down two verses, Matthew 18, 15 to 17, 1 Corinthians 5, 9 through 11, both of those deal with sin of a Christian.
01:05:36: But 1 Corinthians 5 deals with sin of a Christian.
01:05:39: It deals with sins of Christians and non-Christians.
01:05:41: And what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5 is simply this.
01:05:46: I've told you to separate yourself from the sexually immoral, but not the sexually immoral of this world, because you'd have to come out of the world to separate yourself because that's the standard of the world.
01:06:01: But if someone names the name of brother and is sexually immoral, to separate yourself from them.
01:06:09: So if I have a child and my child is a unbeliever, they're professing unbelief and they're living immoral, they are living according to their nature.
01:06:28: They're living according to the nature that they have.
01:06:32: And that's first.
01:06:35: But if I have a child who says, I'm a believer and I'm a Christian, but I'm living an immoral life, a sinfully immoral life, sexually immoral life, then I would be bound, as most difficult as it would be, to have separation from them.
01:06:54: Because that's the call of 1 Corinthians 5 and Matthew chapter 18.
01:07:00: Now, people don't like it when I say that.
01:07:02: Well, would you want me to abandon my children? No, I don't want you to abandon your children.
01:07:05: I want you to love your children, but I want you to understand you cannot affirm them as believers if they are living as unbelievers.
01:07:14: That's the issue.
01:07:18: That's like enabling them from their sin.
01:07:24: Well, You can't say it's okay.
01:07:27: I want to take a step further though, because what if the child isn't a believer and they're living in sin? For instance, let's say they're maybe homosexual or let's say they're just living with a person and they're living in sin.
01:07:40: How would we respond? I have five children.
01:07:45: None of them, my son's the only one that this could happen because he is in the Air Force now.
01:07:52: What if he chose to begin to be in a relationship with a girl and they were living in a sexually immoral way? Well, he is not a professing believer, but I would still try to impress upon them the weight of their sin and the danger that they're living in.
01:08:07: They're like Jonathan Edwards said, they're like spiders on a web over a fire.
01:08:12: At any moment, the web could break and they could fall into an eternal hell.
01:08:16: They need to flee immorality and flee to Christ.
01:08:23: But as far as it goes, I cannot convert them and I can't change their heart.
01:08:29: All I can do is point them to Christ.
01:08:33: I don't know if that's as helpful as I hope that it is, but the first and foremost thing is it does make a distinction in the scripture between how you deal with a believer and how you deal with an unbeliever.
01:08:45: If your child professes faith and they're living in sin, that creates a separate issue because now you're dealing with someone.
01:08:53: I'll give you an example.
01:08:55: In our own church, a few years ago, we had a family.
01:08:58: They're not with us anymore, but we had a family and their daughter was living in a situation that was an ungodly situation and they made her move out because it was a dangerous situation that she was in and she was unwilling to stop.
01:09:15: Some people took great issue with the parents taking that hard stand.
01:09:21: I stood with them.
01:09:22: I said, as hard as a stand as it is, they did the right thing.
01:09:27: They had other small children in the home and it was a danger to the home and the girl professed to be a believer and yet she was living in sin.
01:09:40: They said, you cannot live here and do that.
01:09:45: It's tough, but I think it was the right thing to do.
01:09:51: Sometimes the hardest things to do is deal with our families.
01:09:55: I would say not sometimes, all the time.
01:09:58: The hardest things is to deal with difficulties in families.
01:10:01: I hope that was helpful.
01:10:02: I know it doesn't answer everything, but I want to move on to these last three.
01:10:07: We may be here a little, a few minutes late tonight.
01:10:10: Are you guys, would you be okay if we didn't take a break? Yeah, okay.
01:10:21: I said it'd be okay if you didn't take a break.
01:10:25: Okay.
01:10:28: As a Christian parent, how do we decide between public school versus homeschool? Um, this question, I'm going to respond like this.
01:10:36: Number one, that's not the only two options.
01:10:40: There are other options.
01:10:42: There are private schools, Christian schools, virtual schools, charter schools.
01:10:46: There are other options.
01:10:48: Not everyone can and not everyone should homeschool.
01:10:53: Now I'm, I get kicked out of some churches for saying that.
01:10:57: If I said not everyone can and not everyone should homeschool.
01:11:00: I'm willing to say though, that I believe that's true.
01:11:06: It's not always possible.
01:11:12: And let me add, let me add a wrinkle to that.
01:11:15: Because I know people who would say, you're wrong, pastor.
01:11:17: You're absolutely wrong.
01:11:18: Everyone can homeschool if they're willing to be dedicated to it and do it.
01:11:28: I know there are people who believe that.
01:11:30: I know that we could have a conversation about it.
01:11:34: But here's, here's what I want to say about that.
01:11:42: Most people that say that are not in the situation where it's impossible for them.
01:11:49: We have, we have people who visit the church sometimes who are in tremendously difficult situations.
01:11:55: And some of them are single mothers who have two jobs.
01:12:00: And as a church, we want to help support that person.
01:12:02: We want to love that person.
01:12:04: But sometimes they have to make very difficult decisions.
01:12:07: And how they got where they are is irrelevant.
01:12:11: It's where they are and we have to deal with it.
01:12:14: Because anybody can make a judgment call.
01:12:17: Well, she shouldn't be there.
01:12:19: Okay.
01:12:21: Exactly.
01:12:22: Okay.
01:12:22: She is.
01:12:23: We got to deal with it.
01:12:26: So that, so that's the first thing.
01:12:29: Having said that though, I want you to understand two things.
01:12:31: Number one, it is the parent's duty to teach the children God's word.
01:12:37: It is.
01:12:38: Deuteronomy 6 is so clear.
01:12:40: It is not, people get upset.
01:12:42: Ah, the school should be teaching the Bible.
01:12:44: No, it shouldn't.
01:12:45: Because the school is bad at teaching most things.
01:12:49: They would be horrible at teaching the Bible.
01:12:52: So your job as a parent is to teach your children scripture.
01:12:56: That is your job.
01:12:58: And your job is to understand that when you send your children to be taught anywhere, that that is going to have a profound effect on them.
01:13:09: Votibachum said this, and I do think it's true.
01:13:11: If you send your children to Caesar, do not be surprised if they come home Romans.
01:13:20: So if somebody came to me and said, can I be a Christian and my children go to public school? I would say it's certainly possible and certainly can be.
01:13:29: But what is your motivation? Why are you sending your kids to someone else to be educated? What's the reason? And again, I can't, I can't say that every reason would be necessarily a sin.
01:13:49: But if you send your children to a public school, they are going to be taught things that are not biblical.
01:13:57: And you are going to have to deprogram what is being institutionally programmed.
01:14:06: Consider this for a moment.
01:14:08: If a child spends eight hours a day in a classroom, that's 40 hours a week, five days a week.
01:14:17: You are probably not going to be able to undo all the knots that are put in that rope in those 40 hours.
01:14:27: In addition to that, a lot of people do not teach the scripture to their children, but they rely upon the church to do it.
01:14:38: And therefore the child is not only not getting scripture at home, the only introduction to scripture they're getting is 45 minutes on Sunday morning in Sunday school and maybe an hour in church.
01:14:50: You cannot, you cannot overcome 40 hours of teaching with one 45 minute Sunday school lesson.
01:14:58: So if your children are in a public school, you have an even bigger responsibility to make sure you are giving your children a consistent biblical diet.
01:15:13: I have friends who are strong believers who grew up in a public school.
01:15:16: I grew up in a public school.
01:15:17: Nobody was homeschooled when I was a kid.
01:15:22: It is different.
01:15:23: It is different.
01:15:24: But, but what I'm saying though is, is, is it's a, when we look at the reality, can a person be public schooled and become a Christian? Everyone in this room was public schooled as far as I know.
01:15:36: Anybody here homeschool product? My family homeschools.
01:15:49: One of my other elders doesn't.
01:15:51: We have had this conversation.
01:15:54: I'm not telling him that he is sinning by not homeschooling his children.
01:15:58: He has a motivation that is different than mine.
01:16:01: He believes that he is correct.
01:16:03: And I believe that I am correct.
01:16:05: And so this does come down to the father in the home, or if the mother, if there is no father, this comes down to the parent having to make a decision that is best for their child and stand by that decision, pointing the child to Christ.
01:16:21: Again, I'm not, I know this sounds like I'm riding the fence.
01:16:24: I promise I'm not.
01:16:25: I'm simply saying that every man, every woman is going to stand before God and give an account for how they raise their children.
01:16:34: So if you're, if you are sending your child to a public school, you got a lot of work.
01:16:39: You got a lot of work to do.
01:16:40: That's it.
01:16:41: That's, that's all I can say.
01:16:42: But let me add these last two questions.
01:16:45: How should Christians respond to the issue of boys and girls bathrooms in school? And how should Christians respond to schools teaching disagreeable content? Well, if you homeschool, that you don't have to worry about those two things.
01:17:02: Yet, because I want to tell you the bathroom thing ain't staying at school.
01:17:06: That's going to, that's going to be promoted in many other areas.
01:17:09: And you're going to have to teach your children and deal with your children on those issues.
01:17:14: Pass the schools.
01:17:15: So my kids are homeschooled.
01:17:16: We're already, you know, we, we already helped them to try to understand distinctions between boys and girls, you know, because we know that that line is being blurred socially in many areas.
01:17:27: So that's one thing to consider.
01:17:29: Something else to consider too, is if you are putting your children in a public school, you have to understand that there is no such thing as neutrality.
01:17:40: Everyone has a worldview.
01:17:41: And everyone has in their mind, whether they understand it or not, a desire to promote their worldview.
01:17:48: That is there.
01:17:50: Uh, so if you choose to public school your children, you have to be their advocate.
01:17:57: You have to be their advocate.
01:18:00: If they bring home something that is ungodly, that they're being taught, they're not going to tell the teacher it's wrong.
01:18:07: You do.
01:18:09: Well, I don't want to get my child in trouble.
01:18:11: That's something you have to deal with.
01:18:14: Will we take a stand for our kids? Or will we simply just allow the school to do what it's going to do? Be as involved as possible and be a voice for Christ in the darkness.
01:18:26: That's the only answer I can give you on those two questions.
01:18:28: Because you have to, you have to tell the school, my child is not going to do this.
01:18:33: My child's not going to participate.
01:18:35: Will your child get a failing grade? Will my child get a failing grade? My child's not going to the sex education class where they teach oral sex to small children.
01:18:46: There's videos of that online of teaching small children how to have oral sex.
01:18:55: My child's not going to participate.
01:18:57: My child's not going to participate in Muslim Enrichment Day where they're forced to get down on a prayer mat and aim themselves towards Mecca and pray to Allah.
01:19:11: So these are, again, if you're a homeschool parent, you feel like you don't have to deal with these things, you may have to deal with them in a different place.
01:19:20: But if you are a public school parent, you have to become your child's advocate and take a stand where you are able.
01:19:27: That's the best I can give you on those.
01:19:29: I don't know that a solution is coming.
01:19:32: I think things are going to get worse before they get better.
01:19:35: There are transvestites teaching, reading in our public library in Jacksonville.
01:19:41: They have transgender readings, Drag Queen Story Hour, that's what it's called.
01:19:48: Did you see the school day, or 8 to 6, rather than just working parents? To give the state more control.
01:20:03: Yeah, well, what have we done? And again, this could take me into a dangerous area, so be careful.
01:20:09: What have we done in the last 20 to 30 years that's been a major change? School has gone from being something that kids do in addition to home training, to something that kids do in replacement for home training.
01:20:24: And I'm not making, I worked as a substitute school teacher for eight years.
01:20:28: I worked in the public school system as a substitute teacher, and I worked in the in-school suspension lab.
01:20:38: That was, they wanted me in there because I was big and the kids, you know.
01:20:45: Yeah, they wanted me in that room because those kids, I was not intimidated by them.
01:20:53: But that is, why not suspend kids anymore? You know what I was told? I said, why don't we just send these kids home? Why do we provide a place here? I was told by the faculty, if we don't let them come to school, they're not going to eat.
01:21:12: The only meal these kids are getting is what they get with their free breakfast and their free lunch.
01:21:22: So that's a reality, folks.
01:21:25: It's an ungodly society we live in.
01:21:28: We take stands where we can and do our best.
01:21:32: All right, we got to move to the last thing.
01:21:34: I do have one last thing.
01:21:35: Your project.
01:21:37: If you are going to do the certificate, here is the project.
01:21:41: If you'll indulge me for the next five minutes, I'll go through this.
01:21:44: And we'll, was this, was tonight helpful? Was it difficult? I'm going to get some tattoos.
01:21:51: I'm going to get a tattoo and get some DHC oil.
01:21:58: Blow the roof off this, please.
01:22:04: What did you say? I'm going to be upset all the day.
01:22:07: I have a guy.
01:22:11: Oh, well, I will tell you this, sister.
01:22:15: As much as I love you guys, I have no interest in a tattoo for one specific reason.
01:22:28: There's nothing that I am known for more than changing my mind.
01:22:37: I really change my mind all the time.
01:22:39: And I'll change.
01:22:42: We'll go buy something.
01:22:43: I'm like, oh, I wish I'd bought the other one.
01:22:44: I can't imagine sticking something in my body that I'm going to be looking at the rest of my life going, man, why didn't I get the Superman symbol rather than that? I really just don't think I'm committed enough to, huh? No, I'm not interested.
01:23:01: It's not about the needle.
01:23:02: It's just my proclivity for having that, you know, like my hair, you know, my hair looked different last week and it probably looked good.
01:23:08: I change all the time.
01:23:10: And I just I can't see myself being satisfied with something forever.
01:23:15: That's it.
01:23:16: All right.
01:23:16: So students, huh? Hey, now that's different.
01:23:22: No, I'll say this.
01:23:23: There are a few things.
01:23:24: There are a few things I don't change.
01:23:27: My wife, praise the Lord.
01:23:29: Thank you.
01:23:30: And my faith.
01:23:35: But outside of that, I mean, when I was when I first got we first got married.
01:23:40: I had four or five different jobs because I really, you know, I wasn't called a minister at that point.
01:23:44: I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I did all kinds of different things.
01:23:46: I just couldn't keep focused on one thing.
01:23:49: Maybe I needed medicine.
01:23:49: I don't know.
01:23:50: I was I do.
01:23:51: I do wonder sometimes if I have a little OCD myself.
01:23:54: It's definitely not the clean kind.
01:23:56: If you ever seen my car bedroom.
01:24:00: But I do over obsess about things.
01:24:03: All right.
01:24:04: Final project requirements.
01:24:06: Each student will be provided a specific ethical dilemma.
01:24:09: You've been given three.
01:24:09: You can choose one of these three.
01:24:13: Students will write an analysis using the model for ethical model for making ethical decisions, which was a handout provided to you in the first class.
01:24:22: If you do not have it, email me and I'll email it to you.
01:24:25: But you need to use that model because it's basically an outline for a paper.
01:24:29: If you follow it, getting four pages should not be hard at all.
01:24:36: The written analysis should be no less than four pages, not including the title and bibliography pages.
01:24:40: So your title page is a page, your bibliography page is a page and then four pages in between.
01:24:45: So total will be six when you're done.
01:24:47: Title page, which includes the course title and number, along with the student name and professor name that is on your syllabus.
01:24:53: The body of the project should include a well organized analysis, including relevant scriptures as well as any relevant extra biblical information the student uses to reach an ethical conclusion.
01:25:03: You can double space.
01:25:05: Double space means it's really only a two, two and a half page paper at that point.
01:25:08: So you can double space your work.
01:25:12: A properly cited bibliography page.
01:25:14: Now this has been an issue.
01:25:16: I haven't really taken any.
01:25:17: I haven't really taken points off for this in the last three classes.
01:25:23: But please do your best to choose a format and stick with it and use the proper way.
01:25:32: There are two formats that I think are good.
01:25:35: One is the APA format.
01:25:37: All you got to do is Google APA format.
01:25:39: It will tell you how to cite your sources, whether you're citing a website, a book or anything else.
01:25:45: I prefer APA because that's what I used when I was in college and it just happens to be what's in my mind.
01:25:51: That's the American Psychological Association method.
01:25:56: It's parenthetical notation is what it's called.
01:25:59: But the MLA formatting is also useful and you can either do footnotes or end notes.
01:26:05: They're actually the absolute best is footnotes.
01:26:08: But again, they're harder to do unless you have your computer will format it for you.
01:26:14: Here are the three ethical dilemmas you're going to choose from.
01:26:18: Number one, a Christian policeman has been transferred to narcotics investigation.
01:26:26: Part of his new duty will be to go undercover.
01:26:30: This will involve falsifying his name and intentions on many occasions.
01:26:34: He is excited for this new opportunity, but is also conflicted and comes to you for advice regarding the biblical prohibition against telling lies.
01:26:45: How would you counsel him? Justify your answer with scripture.
01:26:50: That's number one.
01:26:51: Number two, a Christian couple in your church is experiencing infertility.
01:26:57: It is discovered that the problem is with the man and the woman is perfectly capable of bearing a child.
01:27:03: She desires to experience childbirth and is pressing him to allow her to receive artificial insemination from a sperm donor.
01:27:12: The man is uncomfortable with this idea, but does not want to displease his wife.
01:27:16: He is afraid her dissatisfaction with him could cause her to eventually abandon the marriage.
01:27:23: How would you counsel him? If given the opportunity, how would you counsel her? Justify your answer with scripture.
01:27:32: Third, a family in your church has a son who is living with his girlfriend and they are not married and have no intention of marriage in the immediate future.
01:27:43: The son and girlfriend have been evicted from their apartment and are in desperate need of a place to live or they will be out on the street.
01:27:51: Another member of the church decides to allow them to stay in a guest room they have available.
01:27:57: The family of the son are upset because they do not believe the two should be cohabitating.
01:28:02: The family that has taken them in believe themselves to be helping in a bad situation and that the son's family are being too judgmental.
01:28:11: Given the opportunity to address the family where the two are staying, what would you say to them? Justify your answer with scripture.
01:28:21: What do you think? No, you don't like those? Not right this moment.
01:28:28: Well, think about my reasoning.
01:28:34: I chose these three.
01:28:35: I mean, I could have written a hundred, right? I wrote these for three different thoughts.
01:28:40: The first one is dealing with the issue of honesty.
01:28:43: The second one is dealing with the issue of sexual ethics in regard to fertility.
01:28:49: And the third one is dealing with church discipline, if you think about it, because it's in the church.
01:28:58: Nobody would question whether or not it's right for the two to be cohabitating.
01:29:01: That's biblically easy.
01:29:03: The issue is not if the cohabitation is wrong.
01:29:07: The issue is, is it wrong for the parents of the other family to take them in knowing that the first family has not let them stay and they're in the same church? That is part of the ethical issue.
01:29:26: So really, it's an issue of, should the church interact with this? That's really part of the question, right? What role does the church play? You're part of the church.
01:29:38: You're being asked what can be done.
01:29:40: How would you counsel in this situation? You're a member of the church.
01:29:43: What do you do? You say what? Have you guys enjoyed this class? Yes.
01:29:53: Well, we are right now at one hour and 29 minutes.
01:29:56: So we started a few minutes late.
01:29:59: So we did a full hour and a half tonight.
01:30:00: I'm sorry I didn't give you your break.
01:30:02: I promise I won't make that a regular thing.
01:30:05: Are you guys all coming back in January? Hopefully.
01:30:09: Good.
01:30:10: Good.
01:30:10: Well, I'm excited to start Greek with you all.
01:30:12: It'll be a much different class.
01:30:14: Things are a little bit more cut and dry in that class.
01:30:16: No, no.
01:30:20: But good try.
01:30:22: You have four weeks from today.
01:30:26: If you need an extension, come on.
01:30:29: It's only two pages.
01:30:31: But here's what you got to do.
01:30:32: You've got to get with me because we don't have another class for you to turn it in.
01:30:36: You've got to get with me when your paper is due.
01:30:39: Here's how the best way to do it is simply email me the paper.
01:30:43: I will print it.
01:30:44: I will write your notes on it.
01:30:46: And I will be ready to provide it back to you with your certificate if you pass.
01:30:52: So you email me the paper.
01:30:55: Format it properly.
01:30:56: I prefer a PDF if you can because if you email it in a Word file, it sometimes messes up the way it looks.
01:31:04: If you can create a PDF and send it, that's an easier print for me.
01:31:09: And if you do that, it ensures that your formatting is not lost.
01:31:13: So send me your paper.
01:31:15: I will then contact you and set up a time.
01:31:17: If you go to church here or if I see you at Set Free, I can give you the certificate at Set Free.
01:31:22: But if you don't go to church here, we can always meet.
01:31:25: I'm in the office most days during the day.
01:31:28: So I can meet you sometime to provide your certificate.
01:31:31: Do you guys have a good time? Learned something? I know we didn't answer everything maybe to the best we could.
01:31:39: But we didn't answer everything because we don't always have the answers.
01:31:43: But again, this was intro to ethics.
01:31:45: This is not all the answers.
01:31:48: And sometimes the answers are left up to the Lord.
01:31:50: Let's pray.
01:31:51: Father, I thank you that you've given us this time of study.
01:31:55: I pray that it will be ultimately used to glorify you and that we will have through this class a better understanding of how we ought to make our decisions based upon the scriptures.
01:32:06: When we're faced with ethical dilemmas, Lord, may we ask, what saith the scripture? And Lord, be motivated by seeking to please you.
01:32:17: In Christ's name, Amen.