Saint Patrick and His Holiday with Sean McGowan

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00:02

Welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter podcast. I am blessed to be joined today with Sean McGowan.

00:09

Sean, you're not Irish, are you? I mean, with the name McGowan. Yeah, just a little bit.

00:14

I had a joke. I have some students that know that I wrote a forward to the new edition of the confession.

00:23

And one of them just said, well, how'd they get you to do that? They just found the first random Irish person that has an

00:28

Irish sounding name and they just went from there. So yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And that edition that you're talking about actually holding my hand right here.

00:36

The confession of St. Patrick put out by Ixtus Publications and you are the person who wrote the forward and I read this and enjoyed it.

00:44

It's actually very thin for those who are watching. So, you know, I wish I had like 200 of these to hand out to people as they're going into bars and so forth.

00:54

Which tells you a little bit more of how tiny the confession actually is. If that includes my forward too.

01:00

Yeah, it's a very, it's a very tiny book. So real quick, what's the other one that you said there were two published works that St.

01:05

Patrick did? There's a confession and what's the other one? Yeah. So the other one is an epistle that he wrote.

01:11

It's an epistle that he wrote. And basically the gist of the epistle is he's confronting a guy and his soldiers that went and basically kidnapped a bunch of Christian converts of Patrick's that were newly baptized converts and sold them into slavery.

01:32

So it's fairly early on, we think, in Patrick's ministry.

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But he's basically, it's in essence, an excommunication. Which gives you some insight to think, you know,

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Patrick, who was once sold into slavery, is now having to confront people that, by implication, are nominal

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Christians at least, who have kidnapped some of his newly baptized converts and sold them into slavery.

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So those are the two. It's the confession and it's an epistle. Sometimes it's seen as like the letter to Coroticus is the name and his soldiers, or it could be the epistola.

02:11

It comes in different forms. Now, it's interesting you just mentioned St. Patrick was a slave because I've been focusing a lot on this podcast, on the social justice movement, especially in Southern Baptist circles.

02:24

I know you're in the PCA, so you're probably seeing that same movement. And now, you know, maybe our woke brothers and sisters out there might want to watch this video because St.

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Patrick was a slave. Maybe he has something extra to tell us. But then again, he's also white. So yeah.

02:45

But I want to get into his biography a little bit. For those who don't know a lot about St. Patrick, maybe you're someone who celebrates

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St. Patrick's Day and you have no clue why. Hopefully this will be informative. And then, you know,

02:58

I want to talk about the message of St. Patrick. What was important about him? What inspires Christians from his life?

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And then those who aren't Christians, you know, what would St. Patrick tell them if he was around today walking around the bars on St.

03:12

Patrick's Day? What would he say? So let's start with who St. Patrick was because you put a lot of that in the forward you wrote.

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Who was St. Patrick? Yeah. So St. Patrick was basically a

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Roman Briton. He lived during the time that Roman rule of Britain was on the wane basically.

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So that was kind of broken at that point. And his father was a deacon in the church and his grandfather was a priest or a minister in the church.

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And the evidence that we have, and of course, a lot of that is really, you know, bit by bit, piece by piece.

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We have to put things together. But the evidence that we have suggests that he came from a pretty wealthy family, from a higher economic class, if you wish.

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And based on his writings, he seemed to be very close with his family, you know, very close. So that time that he was enslaved, you know, he talks about the desire to be reunited with his family.

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And it's very difficult for him, even after he comes back and then he goes back to Ireland to minister, just talking about how much he missed his family.

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So he seemed to be very close with his family. You know, he would have had a good education at that point, reading, writing, and speaking, and things like that.

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But that would have been interrupted, right? It would have been interrupted because he was kidnapped and he was sold.

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So there were gaps in his education. And, you know, presumably when he went back, he finished his education.

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And then when he entered the ministry, he would have been educated as well. But even in his writings, he seems to have this sense of how inadequate his education is, you know, like how inadequate it was.

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And he seemed to be, you know, I hate to use modern jargon, but maybe a little self -conscious about what his education was, basically, and the gaps that he had.

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But he ends up escaping and going back. And then he, out of conviction, and he claims in his work a vision, a vision he has of the

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Irish people, he eventually goes back to Ireland and then becomes a bishop. And of course, you know, at this point in time, you know, we're talking about the fifth century, you know, bishops going back to the second century with writings like Ignatius and others, a bishop was, you know, elevated above the other presbyters and things like that.

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So, but this is still very on in the evolution of, you know, we talk about bishops today and things like that.

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It would have been very different in some respects, but he ends up becoming a bishop. And another, another interesting question is, was

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Patrick married? It doesn't really say, you know, the fourth and fifth century was really, it was, there was a shift in Christian thinking about clergy and marriage.

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You go back to some of the earliest clergymen were married. I mean, you can think of, you know, even the first potential or thought to be the first Pope, Peter was married, right?

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So, you know, but there seems to be a shift in the fourth and fifth century really with people like Jerome and Augustine who took a negative stance on clergy and marriage.

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So Patrick doesn't really specify one way or the other, but he does seem to comment positively on, you know, remaining celibate for Christ and things like that.

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But those are some questions that, you know, we just don't have answers to because of the limited nature of his works that we have.

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But that's really him. He goes back to, he goes back to Ireland and he ministers as bishop to the

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Irish people. So St. Patrick originally from England then? Yeah, well, yeah, pretty much.

06:58

Yeah. Okay. So, so he's, which is, which is interesting. The irony of the, how much, how much vitriol that the

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Irish have towards the English in some, in some respects, but, but yeah, virtually.

07:10

Yeah. Yeah. Now I pointed out, I was telling you before we started recording that I specifically dressed up for this in green because now though you are

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Irish, I guess you don't need to do that. You just have, you know, red hair and everything you pass, you know,

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I'm English and Scottish. I mean, Harris is a, it actually Scotch Irish.

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So we came through there, but I don't think we're actually considered like, you know, real Irish. So I'm trying to match you right now, but I'm in good company because St.

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Patrick himself was from England. So I'm, I'm just as Irish as St. Patrick, which, you know, makes me wonder why

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I put all of this on because I didn't need to, but anyway. Well, my, to, to, you know, just a little personal background.

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My, my mother's side of the family were, were actually from well, my, my great grandfather was

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County Down and County Armagh was my great grandmother. So they came from Northern Ireland and had a lot of Scotch Irish roots as well.

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And my father's side comes from Kerry, County Kerry, Ireland, which is, you know,

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Southwestern area of the Republic. So I have a little bit of both. And if you know, the, the history of Ireland and the wars, you know, the, the tension between the

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North and the rest of the Republic. I like to joke around that I have that tension building within me, I guess, since I, since I have both.

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Are you related to the star of the County Down to quote the

08:39

High Kings? I don't think they did originally, but the Irish song. See, I'm showing my, my street cred

08:44

Irish culture. There you go. There you go. Which is not, you know, man, it's so off topic, but I sent my brother a text.

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I said, could you send me some recipes for Irish food? Cause St. Patrick's day is coming up. And I, I, I shouldn't probably admit this and I'm trying to prove to be

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Irish, but I'm not big on the corn beef for some reason. I, maybe I just haven't had it done. Right. But is there anything else is good out there?

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So he sent me like, I had like almost 30 texts on my phone of like all the different Irish recipes.

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Cause he's really into it. So we'll see what kind of disaster I come up with, but probably like a coddle of some kind.

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That's what I'm thinking. Shepherd's pie is good too, man. Yeah. Shepherd's pie is delicious. You gotta have the leaks.

09:25

The leaks are the key though. Right. Don't you have to have leaks for, for shepherd's pie? Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, there's so many different varieties now.

09:32

I mean, people put virtually anything in it. It seems so you can, if you just say it's shepherd's pie, I'm sure you can get away with it.

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If now I like barbecue a lot. That's my forte. So is there a way to like, is there a barbecue, something similar in the

09:45

Irish palette to for me to make? Not really. Not that I'm aware of off top. No, I see,

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I grew up, you know, and some of this I think is a staple of Irish American, you know, the Irish Americans too.

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I mean, I had, you know, corned beef and cabbage and I do like corned beef, the cabbage I'm not really fond of, but I did learn to make a good shepherd's pie.

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So that's kind of what I really stick with. Well, invite me over. Yeah, man. I mean, this is just proof in my mind though, that America makes everything better because you said they had nothing barbecue in their cuisine in Ireland, but as soon as they got to the

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United States and especially one of the Appalachian mountains, oh boy, they came up with a good taste.

10:23

Oh yeah. Maybe I'll just, you know, yeah, do some barbecue in celebration of American Irish culture.

10:31

There you go. There you go. All right. And back to St. Patrick, cause I'm sorry. No, no.

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Why does St. Patrick write the confession, which is the forward you wrote was for the confession.

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Why does he specifically write that? Cause it seems like he's at the end of life and is this his life story kind of, or what is it?

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Yeah. So the confession, you know, it's really, it's deduced from the Latin and it could really be understood in three ways.

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I think Patrick actually incorporates all three of those. You know, it could be a confession of sin, confession of, you know, faith, right.

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Orthodox faith. And it could be confession of praise to God. And Patrick actually includes all three of those.

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He writes it as a defense of his orthodoxy. And we don't really know enough historical information to know the exact situation.

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But he goes out and he defends his views. The charge brought against Patrick has something to do with his past, including betrayal of some kind.

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But that's really as far as we can go. But he does write it to defend himself and defend his orthodox

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Christian views. And then there's times where he just breaks out in praise. It kind of reminds me of Augustine's confessions in some ways, because, you know,

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Augustine could be writing something and he just breaks out in praise and adoration to God. Right. So there is that in there too.

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And he also is very aware of his sinfulness. You know, I, Patrick, a sinner.

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He's very aware of who he is in the sight of God. And he also attributes much of his mission and his life to the grace of God.

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So it's really an apologetic. It's a testimony of God's grace in his life.

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And it's praise and adoration for God.

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So it's really all those three. Now, it seems like while you're talking, you're saying that you're at least implying that there's some gaps or some because you're saying, you know, it seems like he was writing to defend himself, his orthodoxy and so forth.

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Are there other sources that we can go to to find out more about St. Patrick or are we just really limited in what we know?

12:45

Yeah. So those two are really the only two that we have from his hand, at least that we're aware of.

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And yeah, they do. You're right. I mean, they do have some historical questions because, of course, he's writing and he's not assuming that, you know, he has to explain everything in his writings as if, you know, historians are going to go back later and ask questions.

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So he's just he's just writing what's going on in the moment. So so there are questions that we have that we just don't have answers to.

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But but there also is, at least beginning in the seventh century, when

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Muir Coo, who was an Irish historian and a monk, he writes a historic life of Patrick.

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And he utilizes the two sources that we have, but he also includes oral tradition. And Muir Coo was writing hagiography, which is, you know, a life of the saints, basically.

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And in any of those works that you read, you know, it includes some history. It also includes oral tradition and and also things to bolster and kind of make the saint look more impressive.

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So you start, you know, you start having writings that are coming out that you don't know, you know, how much of this is historical, how much of this is oral tradition, how much of this is just pure legendary to bolster the street cred, so to speak, of the saint.

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You don't know. So that kind of tangles the web a little bit more. But as to sources that are valid,

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I would certainly say, you know, Muir Coo and the other writings of Patrick are considered, you know, should be considered and should be read.

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But if we're talking about his works and what we know is from his hand and what is more reliable, it would be the

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Confession and the Epistle. But yeah, there are, based on your original question, there are certain gaps.

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And, you know, some of those oral traditions might be legitimate, some not. But, you know, that's something

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I don't think we'll ever really be able to know at that point. Now there's a canon of legend that has grown around Saint Patrick and you kind of ruin some of the,

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I mean, you just rain on everyone's parade because you say, yeah, he really didn't chase the snakes out of Ireland. There were no snakes before he showed up.

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He didn't really introduce Christianity to Ireland per se. He wasn't the first one, at least. And, you know, there's no leprechauns or pots of gold or rainbow, which is what a lot of people like to celebrate on Saint Patrick's Day in their decor.

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So what are some of the, is there a way, I should rephrase this, to differentiate between false legends, true legends?

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Because there are some supernatural experiences that he seems to write about. So how do you navigate that? Yeah, I mean, there are some, you know, you think of the pure legendary like Patrick, you know, like you said, bringing people back or bringing people back to life.

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You know, Patrick running the snakes out of Ireland, using the shamrock to explain the

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Holy Trinity, you know, and having run -ins with leprechauns. You know, there are many of those out there and it seems that those have developed over time, as is the case with any person that's a symbol of a country or a culture.

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You know, you have those legendary accounts that develop around those people. And it's hard to kind of decipher, you know, were there any remnants of truth in this, you know, and it kind of just, you know, was elaborated on over time or is this just pure fantasy?

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So it's hard sometimes to decipher those. I think the one that I'm always intrigued about is what he says drove him to Ireland.

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And that was that he had this vision and in the vision, you know, he sees someone calling him to Ireland, he goes to Ireland.

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It was a part of a dream that he had. So I'm always curious about that because that comes from his hand.

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That's his own account of what drove him to Ireland. And so, you know, that gets into the question, especially from a theological standpoint,

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I think. You talk about cessationism, non -cessationism. Does God still reveal to people in ways outside of Scripture?

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Does the Spirit still reveal certain things to people in certain ways? And those things can be discussed, but I think we have to at least look at something from his hand, something he's claiming is what brought him to Ireland, and ask questions about it.

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Whether or not you agree with that God still, you know, does miracles or reveals himself through visions or not, it's still something that needs to be discussed, as opposed to, you know, him having run -ins with leprechauns and, you know, things of that nature.

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Yeah, it's fascinating because he talks about also one of the things that stood out to me is his ability to pray in snow without fatigue.

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It was the Spirit in me that allowed me to do this. And I just, you know, thought,

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I tend to be more on the conservative side. I tend to, you know, the word cessationist means different things to different people, but, you know,

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I do believe that there are apostolic gifts, and there were gifts for a certain time that were around, but I, you know,

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I don't see anything that would contradict that viewpoint in what St. Patrick is saying.

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You know, God still does do miracles, whether gifts of certain kind exist, you know, that's another question, whether gifts the apostles have, but Patrick isn't claiming any of those gifts, and he's saying, you know, he's not saying this is happening all the time to him either, that, you know, he goes to bed, and I wonder what dream

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God's going to give me tonight, but God seems to have called him in some way, at least he felt that way, to Ireland to preach the gospel, and does he, you know, as I was reading through it, it seemed like the gospel's there.

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It's not the way, though, that it is often communicated in modern evangelistic circles in the

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United States, where there's, you know, here's the three or four step plan, and here's what you need to do. It's more built into his life.

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You know, what was the gospel according to St. Patrick, would you say? I would say, you know, without getting into too much, too many specifics,

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I think because, and part of it is because the lack of, you know, he didn't leave us a tract he wrote about what, you know, what the gospel was, but I think putting him in historical context, he would have confessed the

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Catholic faith of the early church, and in fact he writes in his confession, he's writing to defend those orthodox beliefs.

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So he certainly wouldn't have been a modern evangelical, you know, with all the lingo and things like that, but even as a

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Presbyterian, I read some of the church fathers that we would consider Catholic and say, they don't look like they'd fit in a

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PCA church, right? So we have to take that into consideration, but he would have certainly confessed

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Catholic orthodoxy in that particular context. Now when he gets to Ireland, I'm sorry,

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I cut you off there. Finish what you're saying. No, I was just going to kind of go back to what you were saying about cessationism, and I agree with you.

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I'm in the conservative end of that as well, and I do think that there were apostolic gifts that were given for a purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled, but I agree.

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I don't see any inconsistency in Patrick's writings with that.

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I'm certainly a cessationist, but at the same time, I don't think the spirit of God is now not able to do anything in that regard, especially in a nation that apparently was at least in infancy with the

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Christian gospel. I do think there were Christians before Patrick, but I don't think it's inconsistent to say these apostolic gifts have ceased to be because their purpose has been fulfilled, and with what

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Patrick is saying. Especially since a miracle of the human heart being made a heart of flesh and not a heart of stone anymore, that takes, as Paul Washer sometimes says, there's more creative power in that than there was to create the universe out of nothing, but you're taking something so evil and wicked and making it long after God, and so of course, all

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Christians believe that that miracle takes place, and Patrick, when he gets,

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I'm going to pronounce this word, and I'm going to botch it, but he gets to Ireland. There's the tribes called the

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Tuatha. Did I do that right? Okay, that's good. It sounds good. Okay, and so he makes friends essentially with these

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Tuatha chieftains, I guess. They had a very localized government, which I read that. I said, oh, it was like my conservative instincts loved it.

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There was a localized government, but so he makes friends with them, and that's kind of how Ireland gets more or less converted in mass, is these chieftains convert, and then those under their authority end up converting to Christianity, and I didn't read anything that they were forced or compelled, but it looks like from what

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Patrick says in the confession, it was more of a leading by example type thing. Am I getting it right?

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No, it sounds right. I mean, he certainly took the opportunity to befriend those who were in the powerful positions, and it seems that he had the gospel, and he preached the gospel to them, and God worked in their hearts, and eventually worked in the people's hearts.

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I mean, it's incredible to see that looking back when you see God working in a nation, but yeah, that seemed to be his approach was to speak to these people that not only were the chieftains, but they also controlled kind of the religious aspect of those particular tribes as well, and to see the gospel penetrate through that is a powerful work.

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Now the gospel, and we would agree on this, I mean, simply put, the story of—I mean, it's a good news.

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It's a good news story that Christ has come to redeem mankind from sin, and God cannot look upon sin.

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God cannot accept sin in his presence at all, and so in order to be in a right relationship with God, Christ Jesus comes down.

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He takes the penalty for sin, and those who would repent, turn from their sin, and trust in Christ are able to go back into a right relationship, a covenant relationship with their

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Creator. That's, you know, the gospel in 30 seconds or whatever.

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Yeah, it's good. And that's what Patrick preaches, but today, that message that I just articulated does not seem to be anywhere in the festivities surrounding

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St. Patrick's Day. In fact, it would seem like it is a celebration of debauchery, especially drunkenness.

24:22

How did we get from A to B celebrating a man that probably,

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I mean, I don't know what his opinion on drinking was, but he would not have approved of what's going on in many circles today.

24:37

So what would have happened? Well, so briefly, you know, March 17th is the supposed—at least the day we think that Patrick died, and that's where the 17th of March comes from.

24:51

And something I learned just recently, which is surprising to me, is that since 1991,

24:57

March has been Irish American Heritage Month, which I knew of more recently. I didn't know it's been since 1991.

25:03

But anyway, that's beside the point. So if you fast forward, you know, 700 years or so, we already have a feast day in connection with St.

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Patrick in Ireland, and he's seen as the saint of the Irish church.

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So yeah, at this point, Patrick's competing with, you know, people like St. Anthony in Egypt and St. Martin and all these other, you know, saints.

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He's competing with them as the patron saint of the Irish church. And the reason it's connected with drinking, the only thing

25:36

I can think of is that because it was centered around a feast. It was centered around a feast, and what did people do during a feast?

25:44

They ate and they drank and they celebrated. But there's also a big shift, and again, based, you know, taking back to what we were talking about earlier on, there's also a big shift when you get to the

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Irish coming over to America. There's a big shift in the celebrations of St. Patrick's Day. And I believe it was in the 18th century with the

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Irish that fought in the War of Independence is where we have the actual first celebrations, the first parades of St.

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Patrick's Day. So you see a big shift in the Irish American culture with the festivities and things like that.

26:21

And I think, you know, quite honestly, John, it's probably connected to just what do people do when they celebrate?

26:26

They drink. And unfortunately, you know, in the Irish culture, there's been that stigma that we have of drunkenness connected with the

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Irish people. So I think when you throw all that in the mix, you have what you have today.

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And just kind of what I mentioned in the forward, it's really a tragedy,

26:47

I think, that you have a day that is supposed to celebrate, you know, the great saint of Ireland and everything

26:55

Irish and things like that. And what is the biggest thing that's connected with that day? Drunkenness.

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And I can't think of any other ethnic group that we take a day to celebrate them.

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And what do we do? We celebrate it by taking one of the biggest stereotypes that ethnic group is known for, and we make it almost a virtue to celebrate.

27:24

But that's what we do on St. Patrick's Day. And you're right, St. Patrick, I think would be, I don't think he would have been opposed to drinking per se, as I'm not.

27:34

I mean, I think scripture is clear that it's drunkenness that we combat, not drinking per se.

27:42

But I think St. Patrick would have been appalled that a sin is connected with his name.

27:49

I think you're right. So that brings me to another question. How do we use

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St. Patrick's life as a witnessing opportunity? I don't know if you've ever talked to someone who had no clue about who

28:01

St. Patrick was and, you know, was involved in festivities like you just described.

28:08

But, you know, how, I mean, other than sharing this video, which everyone should do, how do we use this?

28:16

So I think there's a couple ways to approach it. I mean, just, you know, St. Patrick is his story in many ways reminds me of Joseph's story in some ways, in scripture.

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You know, he was sold into slavery, and look how God used Joseph. Look how God used St. Patrick.

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So, I mean, even just sharing his story with people and then connecting it to, you know, the gospel, to who

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God is and who was this God who Patrick served and believed in and who, you know, believed his whole life was directed under the providence of God, even his life as a slave, and we can get into that.

29:00

I mean, it doesn't seem that Patrick had any, you know, he lost a lot of time as a slave in Ireland, and he doesn't seem to have any anger toward God, any bitterness toward the

29:12

Irish people. No reparations. No, no reparations. None of those things.

29:18

It doesn't come out. He just acknowledges who he is. He's a sinner on the side of God, and everything he has in life is from God's gracious hand, and I think, you know, however you do it, however you approach it,

29:31

I think using those, taking those things and presenting them to people can be a powerful apologetic and a powerful witnessing opportunity, but yeah,

29:43

I mean, there's plenty of ways you can, but just his life in general and his constant recognition of how much he was a sinner, how much he needed

29:53

God's grace could be an excellent opportunity to say, you need God's grace too.

29:59

Right. I was thinking practically, you know, I've never done this. I know a church that I have been part of for years, they'll go to St.

30:06

Patrick's Day parades and things and hand out tracts and things like that, but I thought, you know, practically speaking, maybe asking someone, maybe

30:14

I'll do that on Sunday, just asking someone who looks like they're part of these festivities, maybe or just someone on the street, if I get an opportunity, you know, who was

30:26

St. Patrick or why do you celebrate St. Patrick's Day? Why do you do this?

30:31

Why do you do it? What are you celebrating? And then just see what they say, and then that, you know, opens the door. Well, do you know anything about St.

30:38

Patrick? Well, let me explain to you who St. Patrick was, and you can weave the gospel right into that. Sure. This was a message that Patrick was communicating.

30:45

This is why Irish people today are part of Christendom, or they claim to be.

30:55

They used to be. They used to be just like the United States. That's right. So, last question for you.

31:05

You're a man, I'm a man. I have talked about this problem before, but it does not seem like there are as many role models as there used to be.

31:15

Quite a deficit out there for role models who are masculine, who are

31:20

Christian. In fact, the Christian in the media is, if there's a male Christian, they're made fun of.

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They're the weakling. They're the bigot. You wouldn't want to be them. And St.

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Patrick still has, because of his holiday, there's still a sort of a status that he has, historically speaking.

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I was struck when I was reading through the confession of how manly St. Patrick was. I just wanted you to speak about that for a moment, just for men in particular.

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What kinds of inspirations can we be drawing from St. Patrick in our own lives and applying, and how can we look to him as a role model?

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Goodness. I mean, just in his confession alone, as a man of God, his constant recognition of who he was in the sight of God.

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He understood who he was in the sight of God. He was a sinner who needed divine grace. Everything he does, everything he does, his motivation is for God's glory.

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It's because of God's grace, and it's for God's glory. His emphasis on praising and his adoration of God.

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I think these are things that men don't want to do anymore, because it makes them look weak, right?

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Or it makes them look vulnerable. But you're right. Patrick was a man's man.

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I mean, who else would do what he did to try to escape Ireland and go back home? I mean, the things he had to go through, all those things, that takes a strong person to do.

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But at the end of the day, he knew who he was. He was a sinner. He needed

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God's grace, and he was doing everything he did for the glory of God.

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Also in his epistle, I mean, he was not afraid to confront sin. Right? He wasn't afraid to confront sin and to call it out when it needed to be called out.

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He didn't back down to controversy, and neither should we back down to controversy. The person he's calling out and his soldiers, these are strong men, but he's calling them out for what they did.

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No, you took your Christian brothers and sisters and you sold them into slavery.

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You need to repent. In fact, by doing that, you've excommunicated yourselves.

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You know? So he didn't back down to those things at all.

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And I think that's something that we've lost as men too. We're afraid to be controversial when it needs to happen.

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Now, I think there are people that stir up controversy for the sake of just stirring it up.

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Right? I mean, there are people like that. And with the internet, there's millions of people like that. But when it comes to sin and when it comes to issues of the gospel, we don't back down.

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And no matter what we're called, right, we need to stand up for what's right and stand up for the truth.

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And Patrick did that. And also, as I said before, there's no indication in Patrick of bitterness.

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He was kidnapped and sold as a slave. And you don't see any of that come out in anger towards God.

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Why did you allow this to happen to me? You know, woe is me kind of thing. You don't see any of that.

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And you don't see any indication of anger toward the Irish people.

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You see love for the parties as our culture tends to do today.

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He was one that acknowledged his lot in life was given to him by God. And he was going to honor

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God in whatever it was. And he actually was able to take something wicked in his life.

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Right? I think we would say it's an evil thing for someone to kidnap him and sell him into slavery.

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Right? You're engaging in man stealing at that point. Um, but he took something that was evil and he turned it into something that brought glory to God.

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And I think, I think, you know, men, us, especially Christian men, we need to hear those things because there's a tendency in the

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Christian men to be, to not stand up for truth, to kind of just back down and take our place in the midst of all the other men that aren't standing up for anything.

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Um, and, and also contentment and, and not any bitterness or what was me kind of pity parties, you know, except our lot in life and what

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God has given us be thankful and do everything we have with everything we've been given, um, to the do everything with everything we have to the glory of God.

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Yeah. That's a good word. Amen. Yeah. So humility, uh, sacrifice standing up for truth.

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Um, I just, I mean, praying in the snow for hours, uh, you know, there's some fortitude going on here as well.

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And, and even just making friends with all these warrior chieftains. I mean, I would have been scared to death. I think, um,

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I mean, I've seen Braveheart, so, you know, I know all about that. Uh, but, uh, yeah, the confession of St.

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Patrick, uh, it's actually, I mean, you can get versions of this free online. You can just go look up this confession of St.

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Patrick, but you just won't have Sean's Sean's great forward. So you want to go and pick up this version because it has

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Sean McGowan's forward. And you get to hear what he has to say about St. Patrick, uh, from publications .com.

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Uh, Sean, uh, any final thoughts? No, I appreciate the time that, uh, that you've given me and, and I just enjoyed being on here and talking about a

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Saint that I think is, is lost and shrouded in mystery. Sometimes we seem to know a lot about him, but we really don't know a lot about him.

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Um, so I, I, you know, any opportunity I get to talk about someone that, that God used. And I think

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I bring that out in the book, or I try to at least the forward that, um, that, that Patrick would want everybody to know this was something

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God did not, not elevating him, right? This is something God was working in his life and he, he, he went,

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Patrick was sold into slavery for a purpose, um, in, in the plan of God.

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And that purpose was to, um, you know, eventually bring the Irish people and the

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Irish nation, uh, to, to know Christ. So, um, I think it's important to not get lost in that.

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This is, this is for the glory of God. And then Patrick would want people to know this, his life was for the glory of God.

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Yeah. Yeah. I, I know I mentioned at the beginning, I've been doing some videos on social justice controversy, infiltrating

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Christian circles. And, um, from the life of Joseph, what God meant for evil or what, sorry,

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I just misquoted the Bible there. Uh, you meant for evil. Here we go. You are going to accuse me of hyper -Calvinism now.

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People, people will edit that out. People will edit that out. God is the author of sin. What you meant for evil, but Joseph said to his brothers,

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God meant for good. What you meant for evil, God meant for good. We see that in the life of St. Patrick. And I wish a lot of more of the social justice warrior types would consider that principle.

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Bad things happen. That's part of the curse of sin. It's life. St. Patrick went through it and look what God did and used, um, use that.

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So, uh, thank you, Sean. Once again, that was excellent. Uh, look forward to a good St. Patrick's day and I'll be, um, waiting in anticipation for your invitation, uh, so I can come over and have some shepherd's pie.