Christians Are Not Closer to Jesus Than Muslims, Says Shane Hipps to Relevant Magazine

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These are the sounds of the postmodern emergent philharmonic orchestra conducted by Doug Padgett Tony Jones playing second fiddle

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Brian McLaren on the timpani Yes, and on the oboe that is

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Shane Hebb's and oh yes on the kettledrums Rob Bell Yes, they've freed themselves from the limiting modernist definitions of notes and are now just being led by the spirit

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This is so avant -garde Almost makes you want to cry

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Okay, so that's our update music for whenever we do an emergent update and since Shane Hebb's is an emergent

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He really is if you don't think of him in that crowd you really ought to Not only does he hang out with them.

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He actually collaborates with them creatively Brian McLaren and others and this this guy is super duper dangerous and What I mean by that is is that he's not teaching what the

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Bible says at all in fact Shane Hebb's is teaching a theology that he concocted in his little brain

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Okay, and what he teaches is not actually biblical and to kind of prove the point

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We're gonna be listening to his recent interview From relevant magazines podcast called the relevant podcast which if you've ever listened to that podcast.

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Oh my I Don't think

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I don't think anybody is capable like they are over at relevant magazine of stretching out like for more than an hour conversations about absolutely

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Nothing. There's no biblical substance. It's just People droning on about pop culture and things like I mean, it's it's unbelievable that that would be even considered a ministry

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Podcast is beyond me. Anyway, so Shane Hebb's he appeared on the relevant podcast

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And what you're gonna find here is something something Oh, you gotta think of it alarming because obviously what you're gonna hear

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Shane hip say I'm not gonna tell you You got to wait to hear it. He's gonna say something that will just absolutely How do they do it in on the internet the

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SMH smash your head or smashing my head something like that? This will give you an SMH moment. Okay Something he's about to say but think of it this way

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There is an accomplice in this crime this time and the accomplice is relevant magazine

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How is it that a Christian? mainstream evangelical magazine

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You know, you know that in this podcast goes to leaders out there in the in the seeker driven movement

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I like I said, how is it that they call themselves Christian and have no they I mean there wasn't even any

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Indicator that this that what they were hearing from Shane hips was False the guy completely bought it despite the fact the

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Bible doesn't teach any of this nonsense Yeah, well and probably the the setup will help you explain why?

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Here's the relevant magazine to set up their interview with Shane hips regarding his book about selling water by the river

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Here we go Shane hips is a pastor and author

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He was the teaching pastor at Mars Hill in Grand Rapids from 2010 till last year and he's written three books

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His latest is called selling water by the river, but I was introduced to Shane hips his work probably back in 08

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When Rob Bell sent me an email and he said hey, I don't I don't usually do this

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But you really need to read this book is called flickering pixels by Shane hips And I don't usually read books that people email me about but if Rob's gonna go out of his way to say hey

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You need to read this. I did now Can I just ask the obvious question?

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Haven't the folks over relevant magazine read the New Yorker interview article regarding Rob Bell where he comes straight out and Basically says he doesn't believe what

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Christy orthodox Christianity teaches and has been a liberal since really taking the helm

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Over at Mars Hill Okay. Well, he's not left. Are they not aware of this?

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I'm sure that they are apparently I mean that doesn't disqualify You know anything he's recommended to them at all.

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We continue it was Substantial it was life -changing. It was one of the most interesting and impactful insightful books

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That I think the Christian leader has written in the last decade Shane has some amazing insight and is saying some remarkable things.

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And so we talked to him in the new issue of relevant Our very own Tyler Huckabee spoke to him.

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Here is Shane Now the music is part of their format there for that podcast

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One of the things that that you say is just because Christianity claims

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Jesus as its own doesn't mean Jesus claims Christianity as His own. Can you unpack that?

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Yes, I went to a museum once and I saw a donor wall and The various names of donors were on this wall.

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Okay, you're gonna stop right there. Okay, so he's asked a question Okay, you say that you know, you know that that you know

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Christianity claims Jesus as its own But Jesus doesn't claim Christianity as his own

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Could you explain that? Yeah, you see the one there's one time I Was at a museum and there was a donor wall

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Okay, where does the first place that he goes to answer this question? It's not the

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Bible. Do you know why? Because the Bible doesn't teach what you're about to hear.

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Okay, so he can't go to the Bible he in fact Listen source really matters.

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Okay. What I find interesting is that there are so many false teachers out there today who?

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Make no effort none whatsoever to actually Create the false perception that their teaching actually has its origin in the

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Bible in the case of Shane hips It doesn't in fact here He was asked a question

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Why is it that he didn't go to the Bible because he the Bible doesn't teach this but so he starts off Oh, this is time.

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I was at a you know, so what is the source for this Shane hips is experience?

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When did Shane hips is experiences? Become the standard for what the

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Christian Church is to believe teach and confess Answer it never has been in fact in the 2 ,000 year history of Christianity Shane hips has only been here for maybe 40 mid 40 ish, you know amount of years

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So 44 45 years, that's how long he's been around Okay, in other words we could say for the better part of 1900 years

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Christianity has gotten along just fine without any opinions or speculations or insights from Shane hips and in fact since we believe the faith once -for -all

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Delivered to the Saints and since Shane hips wasn't there when the faith was once -for -all delivered to the

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Saints He doesn't get to edit it In fact when he starts editing it it ceases to be

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Christianity and Christian doctrine and it becomes Shane hippism Okay, are you a hippie and it's made with somebody who follows the theology of Shane hips we should call them hippies

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Are you a hippie? I'm not a hippie. I'm a Christian. There's a difference Okay, and Shane hips is ideas

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Shane hips is speculations Shane hips is life experiences They have no bearing whatsoever on the faith once -for -all delivered to the

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Saints Because as you're gonna see when we actually check some of the things that he's trying to say and Try to make it look like it's what the

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Bible is talking about when we actually check the references It's not gonna check out here. Listen in I Went to a museum once and I saw a donor wall and the various names of donors were on this wall and There was one brick in the wall that simply said anonymous

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And what that means is somebody had anonymously given money to this museum And the reason

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I think that's an interesting thing is that we humans give

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Gifts anonymously all the time. We don't need our name attached to it We have the ability and the capacity and the power to make an impact without ever getting credit

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And what does this have to do with Christian doctrine One of the things

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I think is fascinating is Jesus does the same thing in the New Testament Really in the in the

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New Testament. Jesus is an anonymous donor Jesus is an anonymous donor.

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No, he's not and I'll prove it to you and He comes to people and gives gifts to them even when they don't ask and even when they don't have any idea who he is

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At one point in the New Testament Jesus walks up to a blind man He smears mud on his face by spitting on the ground and then tells the guy to go wash in the pool of Solo Blind man does his sight is returned.

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The blind man did not ask for Jesus to do anything The blind man didn't even know who Jesus was Jesus gives gifts anonymously.

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That's what the famous footprints poem is all about Footprints by the way that footprints poem despite its kitschy popularity

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Yeah, that's nowhere in the Bible. Just want to tell you that just see I know it's hard to believe but you know As popular as that footprints poem is not in Scripture but let's take a look at that blind man in the story of the you know of the healing of the blind man at the pool of Siloam came and what we're going to do here and We're going to check to see that we're doing fact -checking.

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Okay, we're gonna check to see if Jesus really just Anonymously healed this guy. I mean just you know, if at the end of the story the guy completely just You know, it was a total drive -by healing the blind guy had no clue if Jesus performed you know, basically, uh, you know pay it forward kind of you know

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Miracle and just did it anonymously. Okay, John chapter 9 verse 1 now as he Jesus passed by he saw a man blind from birth

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And his disciples asked him rabbi who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind Jesus answered it was not that this man sinned or his parents but that the works of God might be displayed in him

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We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day Night is coming when no one can work as long as I am in the world

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I am the light of the world having said these things He spit on the ground made mud with the saliva then anointed the the man's eyes with mud and said to him go wash in the pool of Siloam so he went and washed and Came back seeing okay, so There you go.

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See it's a it's an anonymous healing, right? This is Jesus just anonymously paying it forward kind of thing

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Well, no, not exactly. We continue reading verse 8 So the neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar were saying

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Is not this the man who used to sit and beg and some said it's he other said no It's not him.

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It just looks like him and they kept saying and he kept saying I am the man So they said to him how then were your eyes open?

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He answered get this watch this This is verse 11. He answered the man called

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Jesus made mud and anointed my eyes and said to me go to Siloam and wash so I went and washed and Received my sight

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They said to him. Where is he? He said I don't know Huh Well, if it was an anonymous healing, how is it that the blind man knew that it was

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Jesus who healed him? That's weird So let me back the audio up here

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I mean cuz you know Shane hips is making the claim that Jesus and it heals people anonymously because he's like an anonymous donor

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Blind man does his sight is returned The blind man did not ask for Jesus to do anything.

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The blind man didn't even know who Jesus was Jesus gives gifts anonymous.

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That's what the famous. So Jesus gives gifts anonymously. So was that an anonymous healing? Nope, it wasn't a seat now

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There's see that's that's two strikes against Shane hips right now and relevant magazine for being so biblically illiterate and obtuse

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When it comes to all things biblically biblical doctrine wise that they don't even realize that what he's telling them isn't true

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Okay so Jesus Didn't perform an anonymous healing here

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Okay, so he got the text wrong and he started off with his own experiences and speculations

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Mm -hmm. Yeah, so Shane hips isn't teaching Christianity he's teaching hip ism.

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And if you are a follower of hip ism, you're a hippie What Prince Paul was all about? Is this anonymous donation?

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And so what I think is important for Christians to consider is Is it possible that Jesus is at work in all kinds of places throughout the entire?

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Creation. Okay. Now I'm gonna stop there. So so the whole point was now see look in John 9

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Jesus Anonymously healed somebody. No, he didn't but because he did that isn't it possible.

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Isn't it possible? Well, there's a lot of things that are possible Okay, it's possible that I am the long -lost half -brother of Donald Trump is it probable no

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Yeah, I got way more hair than he does but anyway, but see this is how false teachers operate they misquote passages

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They start with their own theology and speculations and then what they do is they come up with a scenario whereby

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Well, if what I said is true over here, isn't it possible that that this could possibly be true, too?

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No The whole thing I deny it based upon the fact that he's he started with his own thoughts and ideas

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He mangled John chapter 9 already and then quoted the footprint

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Footprints poem as if it's authoritative and now we're supposed to go and isn't it possible listen

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God Sustains his creation. Okay. This is absolutely true

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Okay that God is the one who brings rain who causes the crops to grow who makes sure that we have food on our table

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And he makes it makes it so that the Sun shines on both the righteous and the unrighteous

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This is certainly true. But that's a there's a difference there between God sustaining his creation and those who have been brought to penitent faith and Trust in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

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There's a huge difference between that. Okay Where his name is not mentioned, but his gifts are being given

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And I'd like for us to consider that possibility, too. Yeah, let's just consider that possibility.

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No There's no reason to I think that's what Paul does at the Acropolis at Mars Hill Yeah, I'm glad you think that that's what

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Paul does the Acropolis at Mars Hill, but that's not what he does He points them not to an anonymous

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God But to the name the man Jesus the resurrected man

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Jesus He says you have this statue to an unknown God Well, I know the name of that God and he's at work among you this is an incredible teaching this is a

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Shocking reality that is biblical in nature But Christians for some reason have come to this conclusion that we have a corner on the market of Jesus Just because we bear his name

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So Chris so now notice he made an allusion to Acts chapter 17 Paul on the you know at the

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Acropolis on Mars Hill I read this the other day on the program, but let me read it again Okay, Acts chapter 17 verse 16

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Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that city was full of idols

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So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout Persons and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there some of the

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Epicurean and Stoic Philosophers also conversed with him and some said what does this babbler wish to say others said?

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Well, he seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection

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Uh -huh. Now notice Paul wasn't preaching to them. Oh, listen Yeah, you know

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Jesus is here man And you know and we Christians don't have a corner on the market on Jesus But I'm here to tell you man that you're so close to Jesus.

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You already have a man. It's not what he was doing Okay, so he was preaching Jesus in the resurrection so they took him and brought him to the

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Areopagus saying may we know this new teaching that you are presenting for you bring some strange things to our ears

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For we wish to know therefore what these things mean Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time and nothing except for telling or hearing something new so Paul standing in the midst of the

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Areopagus said men of Athens I Perceive that in every way you are very religious for as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship

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I found also an altar with this inscription to the unknown God All right

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What therefore you worship is unknown what I proclaim to you the God who made the world and everything in it

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Being Lord of heaven and earth does not live in temples made by man So now he's going full bore going after their idolatry, right?

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Nor is he served by human hands as though he needed anything since he himself gives to all mankind

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Life and breath and everything and he made for from one man Every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth

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Having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place that they should seek God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find

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Yet he's actually not far from each one of us for in him We live and move and have our being and even some of your own poets have said with that We are indeed as offspring being then

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God's offspring we ought not to think of the divine being is like gold or silver or stone or an image formed by art or the imagination of man

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Okay, like Shane hips here Shane hips the God he's talking about That's the God from his imagination the times of ignorance.

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God has overlooked but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

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Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed and of this he

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Has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead so Let me back up Shane hips his comments here

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Does this sound like Paul here is making a shocking statement about how you know

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Christians don't have a corner on Jesus not even close. I think that's what Paul does at the

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Acropolis at Mars Hill He says you have this Statue to an unknown

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God Well, I know the name of that God and he's at work among you This is an incredible Paul didn't say

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I know the name of that God and he's at work among you That's not what he said. He called them to repent

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Told them that their idols that's not how God works and he called them to repent He's preaching

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Jesus in the resurrection credible teaching Shocking reality that is biblical in nature

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Actually, what's really shocking? Is that you're trying to make this concocted theology that you've brewed up in your own brain

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You're doing you're trying to make this sound like oh This is what it's what the Bible is really all about and yet when you look it up in context

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The Bible isn't about any of this but Christians for some reason have come to this conclusion that we have a corner on the market of Jesus just because we bear his name

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And I'd like to suggest I think Jesus is so much bigger Than the religion that bears his name.

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Yeah, how big is he? I mean bigger than a barn Bigger than one of those 787

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Boeing planes. How big is Jesus exactly? weird format

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So when we have an experience with Jesus of Relationship with him people are eager for some sort of terms or parameters to put on it and we end up calling that religion

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And we know it's not a perfect term, but maybe it's just the best thing we have. Yeah, what would be your response to that?

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I would say for those people that find religion extremely helpful. They should continue practicing it. Okay, I Problem Now listen to what's coming next which you're about to hear is going to make your head spin

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Get ready. Hang on. I practice it. I'm a practicing Christian.

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That's your religion I don't think that makes me any closer to Jesus than a

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Muslim Yeah, you heard that right? Let me back it up and let's hear it again

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Shane hips just said I'm a practicing Christian But that doesn't make me any closer to Jesus than a

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Muslim. I'm a practicing Christian. That's your religion I don't think that makes me any closer to Jesus than a

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Muslim So apparently Muslims are really close to Jesus.

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I had no idea that that was the case Considering the fact that they don't believe in the same

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Jesus as the Jesus revealed in Scripture Don't you think that's problematic?

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I think it's problematic, but maybe it's just because I'm Cold -minded and you know, gunky head and and hater.

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Maybe that's my problem. But you see it's really not Okay, and here's the reason why let's take a look at 2nd

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Corinthians chapter 11 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 Paul here is chastising the church in Corinth and listen to the details of his chastisement 2nd

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Corinthians 11 verse 1. I wish you would bear with me a little foolishness Do bear with me for I feel a divine jealousy for you since I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ But I'm afraid that as the serpent was deceived as the serpent deceived

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Eve by his cunning that your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ For if someone comes and proclaims another

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Jesus Than the one we proclaimed or if you received a different spirit

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From the one that you received or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted

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You put up with it readily enough Now listen to the so he's worried here why because people are coming to the church in Corinth and they're teaching a different Jesus a different spirit and a different Gospel, okay, not that there is a different spirit or a different Jesus or a different gospel

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But they're doing that now to the church in Galatia. Okay, Paul had some very strong words to Warn them about those preaching different gospels somebody who teaches a different Jesus a different spirit in a different gospel

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Their heretics you're not to put up with them You're to put them out of the church and not let them infect the church with their false teaching

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Here's what Paul says in Galatians chapter 1 starting at verse 6. I'm astonished that you are so quickly deserting him

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That would be Jesus who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

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Not that there is another one, but there are some who are troubling you and want to distort the gospel of Christ But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one that we preach to you let him be damned anathema cursed right as We have said before so I'll say it again

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If anyone is preaching to a gospel contrary to the one that you received let him be accursed now

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Muslims, okay, they believe in a Jesus His name is Esau and that Jesus didn't die on the cross for your sins and that Jesus Isn't the

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Son of God because according to Islam Allah doesn't have a son, okay So we've got a problem here and that well they believe in Esau and Esau is a great prophet and in fact a prophet of Islam of sorts if you were to think of it that way and the stuff that we have in the

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New Testament regarding Jesus being the Son of God and Dying and rising again. Those are all corruptions and falsehoods and lies

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But Islam has restored the truth regarding Jesus and Esau is not the

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Son of God. He didn't die on the cross He didn't raise from the dead for your sins, you know, none of that stuff at all

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Well, that means they teach a different Jesus in A different gospel.

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Yeah, Islam has a completely different gospel altogether if you could even call it a gospel

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So, how is it that Shane Hibbs would then say something as well

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Preposterous as this I'm a practicing Christian. That's your religion. I don't think that makes me any closer to Jesus So he's a practicing

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Christian, but that doesn't make him any closer to Jesus than a Muslim now in a weird kind of way I'm gonna have to agree because obviously

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Shane Hibbs by the biblical standard and definition of what a Christian is He isn't one so he's just as close to the real

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Jesus as Muslims are in other words, neither of them are close to Jesus at all

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But the point that he's trying to make here on this in this, you know in this Christian podcast that goes out to major Seeker -driven leaders and and all kinds of people who want to do relevant ministry is that somehow

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Muslims are actually close to just as close to Jesus as Christians are

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We continue. I don't know where Jesus is at work. He's so much bigger than I can fathom.

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Okay, listen to that again I don't know where Jesus is at work. I Don't know where Jesus is at work.

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He's so much bigger than I can fathom The power of Christ we are told in John Was with God at the beginning

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Before time existed now listen to this Christology The power that animated the human being

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Jesus has no birthday has no death day. Okay, listen again This should be extremely alarming

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Okay, the power that animated the human being Jesus has no birthday has no death day the power that Animated the human being

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Jesus the power that Animated the human being

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Jesus That is not the biblical incarnation

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That is something more akin to the New Age or even closer to Gnosticism.

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Listen again The power that animated the human being Jesus has no birthday has no death day

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There is no place in all of creation that this power that John tells us is the logos

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Which gets translated as the word in English, but it's just logos this power that has no birthday that has no death day

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It can occupy any place at any time There is no place while we live that is outside the domain of that power

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Now by the way, this is just the biblical doctrine of the omnipresence of God Just because God is omnipresent That doesn't mean that somehow that that God then

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Well, he's behind every religion and we can believe that Muslims are close to Jesus too this is a false application of the doctrine of the omnipresence of God and Jesus embodied that powerfully and when he left that power still stayed

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Now Many people have been hurt or wounded by religion, but they hear about this and it sounds really good

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So, how do we get past what we were raised in or what we've been taught culturally to do to tap into the working power?

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Of Jesus in the world. So so let me boil that down How do you tap in to the working power of Jesus in the world?

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Remember Shane hip says I don't know where Jesus is at work, but apparently he knows how to tap into it

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Well, I think the first step for anyone who would like to connect with that power you mean connect with Jesus wouldn't that be through repentance and Faith and trust in Christ's penal substitutionary death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins

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Wouldn't that be the idea to be regenerated through the preaching of the gospel something like that?

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Well, let's see what he says is to first Recognize that you want

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So in order to tap into the Jesus power that it's out there working Yeah, you got to first realize that you want it if you don't want it.

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It's not for you Jesus said if anyone is thirsty come to me

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If anyone is thirsty let him come to me, huh, he did not say everybody come to me, but if you're thirsty I Came to help thirsty people.

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I came to help people who are sick. I did not come for the well What does that mean?

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Would you mean sinners by that? Cuz it's what you're talking about here. It doesn't really sound at all like repentance and the forgiveness of sins

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If you're not thirsty, you don't want it if you don't long for it if you don't crave it

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So you don't have to worry about the Jesus thing if you're thirsty Well, then that that probably means that you can tap into the

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Jesus power that's at work out there But if you're not don't worry about it, no big deal. It's not for you

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So that's a sampling of the false theology Basically put forward by Shane hips, but now they now

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Shane hips has an accomplice. Okay, think of it this way Okay, what we just heard was the theological equivalent of a bank robbery

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Okay, and relevant magazine in the relevant podcast. They were driving the getaway car.

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That's what happened So if they have no Biblical sense enough to realize that what they just heard was heresy and shouldn't be put forward to anybody unless of course

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They want to send him to hell Then that should tell you that relevant magazine is the type of magazine that nobody who calls themselves a